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Sun lla conversation with Charles Blass, November 15, 1991, New York

CHARLES BLASS: You've spoken in the past about the fact that the planet is under attack, and also that we're trapped by
words. ls there an equation between those things? What can you say about that now?

SIIN BA: Well, since then l’ve been in communication with some outer space people, too, and they said the same thing. And
some people from Turkey, they said the same thing. They don't call it “attacking”, they call it “-exam”, “examination”. They
figure out how it attacks every day, so there is an attack [?].

CB: Do you feel trapped by words?

SR: Not really, I used to be maybe, not now.

CB: You also mentioned that you have a “a childlike mind”. Would you care to elaborate on that?

SB: Well, that’s innocence. You know, you just don't really know nothin’, you just feel things. That’s what I meant by that. A
childlike mind doesn’t know really about wrong and things like that. lt’s always [?] in things being right and necessary to
be that way. That’s what I mean by that. lt (really) begins with teaming what the world’: really like. If they overcome that
knowledge of the world, they got it made. lt’s kind of hard to throw things at society [?] that you know to be real even though
it’s bad. But it can he done. lt’s an impossibility but it can be done.

CB: To what extent are you free now?

SB: My spirit is free. My spirit knows things that it didn't know before. It knows things that would frighten people even to
think about. .

CB: Are you still “coming in the back door?”

SR: I’m walking in a labyrinth. You have to come out of the labyrinth, you know.

CB: What do “shadow people” have to do with the labyrinth?

Sll: Well, shadow people can disappear if they stand in the right kind of light. We have different kinds of lights, you see.
We got some dark lights, we have chromatic lights — we got all kinds of

lights. You’re walking in darkness in the labyrinth, but you can

see colors. Bright, brilliant colors that lead the way.

CB: Does “Love in outer space” happen when “l-‘ate is in a pleasant mood?”

Sll: Space people say they have graduated beyond, risen above love, and passion. They don't deal with it. Because it's hard
on Earth, well it's hard out there in space, too. You really have to have

yourself together for that. lt’s so vast you see, a person could get lost and not know which way to turn. Most people on this
planet are lost, it's a limited existence and they're lost here. They get out there, there’s no right no left, no right, no wrong,
no up and no down. That’s outer space. So what do we have to go home to? Nothing.

CB: So what then is “Love in Outer Space?”

SB: Well it's really — you know, music's a language and it's telling people they have to become nothing in order to survive
in the llingdom of Nothing. See, nothin’ can’t hurt nothin’, nothin’ plus nothin’ equal nothin’. So when they jump over into
that, they got part of the solution. In fact they got the solution with that zero. Everything started from rero you see. You
can’t go into outer space unless you count down to zero. You count down to zero, and then you can go in outer space. They
do it, NASA does it every day, they count down first. So the countdown is what's the matter, not the count-up.

CB: Now does that counting relate to your music and the rhythms in your music?

SB: lt’s just like talkin’, you don't count out words. We express '

ourselves by what we got to say. Music has to be like that, too, but it's very ditficult for musicians to do that. They have to
be very fluent, they have to just be natural. You can’t teach anybody that. Every nation got different ways of expressing them-
selves, different sort of rhythms. And the same thing about a musician. In a particular society, he'll play the way that
society is conditioned.

CB: What questions would you ask Sun Ra it you were interviewing you?

Sll: [silence]

CB: Maybe you have an equation for the idea of questioning, the idea of knowledge?

SB: [pause] I would say, “what am 1, how am l, why am I, and when, and where?” See there’s certain bounds that man is
afraid to move beyond. At certain boundaries he jumps back. A fellow said every time he talks to me there’s a boundary
that he can’t get past, he asked me why. I talked to him, I said, “Well, l’m not really supposed to talk to humans.” lie told

me that he was brave enough to follow any path, and what was I talkin‘ ahout he would be afraid of? lies not afraid of
anything ‘cause he did everything in life and he’s not ‘afraid of anything. llesaid he was even hold enough to meet God
Himself face to face. So I said, “Well, I'm giving my equations, I’m trying to find out how people were created, how it was
done.” lle said, “How do you do that?” and I said, “You have to go hefore Creation to see how it was done.” So then he said
I was frightening him. He said, “Oh, you’re frightening me. now." I said, “Well, you won't know how God created the world,
you got to go hefore creation and then you can see how it was done.” Ilnd he got scared then, just from talking about it. But
really I told him the truth. That’s the only way you can find out what to do, you got to go hefore Creation to find out what
happened, what went wrong, and why it went wrong, and how to undo _ undo the knot.

Sun Ra conversation with Charles Blass, llovemher 16, 1991, New York

CIIABIJES BI.ASS: Is there any equation hetween this “space” music and jazz and blues? Is there a way that you connect those
things or is it all just totally disconnected?

Sllll BA: Well you see, the world is getting. ready to come into some truths that will annihilate everything they got. None of
these things seem important now. Conna come into the real truth. The real truth is gettin’ ready to he revealed to people.
CB: You once said men used to he more truthful. Does this have anything to do with what you’re talking ahout, the truth
heing revealed?”

SB: No, the truth they got is not a good truth. I’m talking about another kind of truth. I'm talking ahout constellations of
stars and other things. I'm talking ahout other dimensions, realizing that there are other dimensions in the cosmos.

CB: What human qualities do you share, with humans that is?

SB: Well they don't know what's happening. So you can’t share

anything with somebody that don’t know what's happening. They are totally unaware of their existence, what it is, who
created them. They don't know ahout God, they don't know about the Creator, they don't know anything about Satan and
Lucifer. They don't know anything, they're just here, you know.-

CB: You've talked about the “energy corridor.” is that your preferred method of travel?

SB: Actually, I really put the brakes on. I put the hrakes on about me travelling.

CB: So you’re stationary at the moment, or what?

: Well I move so much that I can’t tell people about, ‘cause! think it’sforhirlden. l’m-trying to figure it out.
: llo you have a message for parents,regarding their children?
: Well, you got a lost generation, lost parents, too. It's another story now.
: Does that have anything to do with this forhidden knowledge that you have?
: Yes. You see, they spelled a lot of words wrong, and they’re

giving the wrong impression.

CB: Which words are you talking about?

SB: Well one word, ll-0-T. They spelled it wrong. Should he spelled ll-ll-0-'l'. Because people are always getting tied up in
knots on the planet. Get tied up, that makes people sick, they get all tense hecause they’re all tied up.

CB: Is that what happened to you?

SB: No, I let it happen.

CB: Why was that?

SB: It’s experimental.

CB: Is that word related to note, ll-0-T-E?

SB: Yes. 'I'one, too, T-0-ll-E.

CB: What relation would the music, these notes and tones, have to healing, or untangling and straightening out these knots?
SB: Well I’m not looking for no following or nothing, so I have to stay low profile.

CB: You're still playing the low profile? ’

SB: Yes. But when I put my hook out, it won't he no low profile

anymore. You see, it touches upon politics and religion; the whole thing, educational ‘system, everything; the human hody,
the human spirit, the human mind. The whole thing could change . . .

People are not sincere. So I can’t be part of this when they’re not sincere. Because they get trapped up in the labyrinth of
words, there are forces at work out there that trap people.

CB: Your words will free people rather than trap‘ them?

SB: Up to a certain point, yes But I can't trust people, you know. I've helped a lot of people, and all of them betrayed me
[?]. So 1 don't have nothiu’ to go. by as far-as people being sincere or trustworthy, I don't have nothing to go by.

EB: What's the name of this hook going to he?

SB: “llutobiogmphy”. “Coo-Autobiography”.

CB: flare you had this particular book in mind for a long time, or is it a recent idea?

SB: Well, I've been writing a long time, but I hesitated to put it out. ‘Cause it's the real truth you know. But the cosmic forces
said man is not ready for this hook. They say you're not ready. They say man is too immature.

CB: llnd. what did you say to that? What are you saying?

SB: Well I tested ’em out: yes, they are too immature.

CB: How does that immaturity relate to time or aging?”

SB: They're on a treadmill right now. Time is not passin’ by, they passin’ by.

GB: is there anything special about this day of the week being Saturday, Saturn-day?

SB: There's something special about - this is the Sabbath day, this is the day of Saturn.

CB: What's going on up in space at the moment with the planets and stars and their relation to this planet?

SB: Well some space folks are trying to get people to have some conscience so they'll wake up. Some of ’em are up but I'm
suresome of ’em are like God is, so you got a battle out in space now. Between two forces: one force want heaven [?], the
other force say “No”.

GB: Can you see this happening? How do you get this picture?

SB: first place, l got some communication from outer space, and they said so, they said they're putting blocks in man's way.
That's the reason we're here, they gave it to him but he got no place where it ain't no good [?]. They said religion failed on
man, science failed, everything failed because he took it the wrong way. So they don't know what to do about it. Except let
him standstill. They say he makes two steps forward and three backward all the time.

BB: is there an equation that you have between.words- and. numbers?

SB: The numbers and the words tell" a tale about everything, including Creation, and before Creation. I'm dealingwith
things before Creation now.

CB: is that “nothingness"?

SB: Almost. it's another kind of notbingness. One of my songsis “llothiug ls’’. l man's mind might not be able to stand
seeiugffreation. It's possible for him to go back and see what happened. flow it was done. But you might not be

strong enough.

CB: flow is it possible?

SB: You see, man can move forward physically, and move backward physically, but he can do it spiritually, too, mentally —
if he knew how. lie could go backward, and go forward in time.

CB: low can man find out about" this?

SB: Wellhe ought to be able to do it. You know he gets his chances, and the chances are very strict. ‘Cause he might go
crazy, you know, and the space folks don't want that. They're afraid it man really saw the real truth he might go crazy or
seem to. The world might seem crazy anyway.

CB: Before I go, do you have any thoughts on what you're going to play in the next coming set, second set on a Saturday
night? .

Sll: I'm probably gonna play some Duke Ellington tunes, l’1u

probably gonna play “S’Wonderful", I might play “Yesterdays”. I might play “Cocktails for Two”. Depends upon the effects I
get on that instrument, I play according to the effects I get.

December 4, 1985, Oakland, till

I opened up the space age. See, nothing happens on this planet unless somebody from somewhere else allow and .give per-
mission to man to do it. They can't do anything unless they get permission from the higher sources. Whatever they do. They
can't die unless they get permission So it comes down to ifyou want to live, if they want a better world they got to have per-
mission. Tltat's-'whyga..lot;ut:people canoe along.:,to;tr.y.-to helphuruanity tailed. Because they didn't have the authority. This
isa-case. where you have to ehavesthesantbority»; to do anythingto help humanity.

lt’s about one minute to midnight for this planet. So then I've been playing the low profile because l’m not a minister or
anything like that you see. And l’m not a politician and I don't believe in equality. llnd that makes me a little different. I
don't believe in freedom either because I've never had any. I have to work for the Creator whether I want to or not and that’s
discipline. l have to do like the Sun and the stars in the sky. They have to be right in place all the time. That's what I have
to be. l don't know what people are talking about when they're talking about freedom. All superior beings have no
freedom. They have to be obedient to the Creator. Talk about freedoms. Biggest lie I've been told because it can't be you
see. No one is free down here. They never have been and, really, they never will be because if they was free they would not
choose to die. But since they die they're not free. So l’m talking about discipline you see. That made it kind of difficult for
me in particular in this country that's talking about freedom. But l’m talking about discipline. The first man to talk about
freedom, Chrispus Attucks. The first was a black one. He got killed. Then Patrick Henry came and said, “Give me freedom
or give me death." lle got both of them at the same time. So you don't talk about those things when you're dealing with a
spiritual order. You have to be initiated. You have to go through a lot of disciplines and then you come before the Creator
and then if you're pure in heart and you've really gotten your lessons you'll be alright. But you have to have discipline. You
can't go to another sphere and talk about freedom. You won't be able to enter. You have to have discipline. In order for this
planet to move forward they got to be inst as obedient to somebody walking around to somebody
walking around in human flesh as they are to death. They bow to that. And they never tell death, l’m not going to do that.

They bow to that (death). So therefore, they have to recognize somebody who looks like them, who talks like them, in flesh
and they have to be obedient. That's all it takes for this planet. lt’s got to be one person. It took one person. Through man

‘ death came into this world. Now if you get something else, that got to come through sombody in the form of man. Now l’m

in the form of man, but l’m an angel you know because man has tried a long time to do things. lle couldn't do it. But you
know an angel can do a lot of things. It was an angel that tempted Eve, you know. llnd therefore it has to be an angel who
tempt people to get out of this. I don't like the way the planet is set up. lts wrong. lt’s not right. I don't like their
righteousness. I don't like their wickedness. ldon't like nothing about them you see. l’m in human form but I know this is
not right for man. And I refuse to accept it. So since l’m in human form you can just prepare to change because you have
to. If you're not accepting of me you can't possibly be acceptable to God or the Devil. So man will have to show me that he's
worth something. l've been saying he's not worth two cents and a half. But a man in Philadelphia says he's not worth two
dead flies. That is the judgement of man concerning other men saying they’re not worth two dead flies, well of course I know
they can be worth something, they can be priceless, really. Because it's in them to do somethings worthwhile, but
unfortunately nobody on this planet had the right to do right. They could just do wrong. If they want to do something right,
they get their heads chopped off and they go to jail or something. So you see there's a law that they shouldn't do right. That's
because when the creator wanted them to do right they wouldn't do right. So the creator made a law that if he caught them
doing right they would be in trouble. So, you see, all these men that came along talking about a better day for the black
people, they got wasted because they didn't have the right to do right. You have to have somebody with authority to do right
or wrong if it comes to saving people. The creator does not care anything about right or wrong at this point. If he wants the
planet to survive a person can break the law. Even his law to do it. That's how much he cares about people. If you have to
break the law, you break it. You break the law of death. You break the law of everything to save people. That is the way it's
going to be. That is the way it has to be.

I brought in the space age and now I brought in the omni age and black folks haven't even awaken to the space age yet.
l can't be waiting on them you know. The omni age is here now and everywhere you look you see the word omni.

The omni age means that they can get immortality now. The Creator is opening up the whole thing. Not just a universe
but an omniverse. That means his eternal kingdom where they have to approach him as an emperor and not like something
insignificant as a king. You can't call the Creator a king because you got a lot of kings you know. But you don't have but
one emperor and that's the Creator. flow it these people would approach him in a governmental way because he's the ruler
of the omniverse and you don't approach him religiously you've got to approach him as citizens of the omniverse because
you are citizens. But if you don't realize that you are citizens of this great omniverse the Creator get no rights you know.
You don't get none because you got to realize what you are, and what are you? You are citizens of the spirit world of the
Creator and your spirit will have to take precedent and you follow the voice of your spirit instead of your mind because your
mind has been contaminated. It's been programmed and you really can't get it together that way. The computers got you
beat on that so you can forget it. So, you know, since the computers have taken over to do things, there's no place for man

as far as his brain is concerned. So what does he have that the computer don’t have. lle’s got his spirit. So then he'll have
to use that now because the creator has got it fixed where you don’t need no brain. You just push a button on your computer
and that eliminates man as being needed. lle’s not needed anymore. He's not needed in sex either. But he don’t know that
yet. The Creator is putting so much on man to make man see you can’t make it without the Creator. And he would have to
see it. With all these diseases and everything. . . mans main pleasure is sex, so he's making that kind of hard for him. He's
going to keep on making things had for man until one day man will stop and say I can’! make it without the Creator. That’s
all he's waiting on. lle’s waiting on man to say I can't make it.

Sun Ra conversation with Peter Hinds, lune 2, 1986

PETER llllllls: I saw lloy Innis on television the other day and he was talking to a group of black people saying that what
black people need is discipline.

Sllll llll: They’re always stealing my stuff you know. They don’t have none. And I have demonstrated it and I've got things
to prove it all through the years. I've been at my job. I've been at my job creating. What black people need is a creator. All
men are endowed by their creator. They don’t have no creator. They’re just like some clay out there who needs someone to
mold them into shape. That’s the state they're in right now. So, I can do it but as to whether black people can stand still
long enough to listen to someone speak discipline instead of freedom and the time is almost. . . you might say the word dead-
line. Man don’t have control of this planet any longer. lt’s been taken out of man's hands. He got it over into the hands of
somebody else. That might be ruthless God or the Devil, Satan. One of them has got it. llnd man will have to straighten up
and realize and move accordingly. llnd I'm sure man has lost control all these things that have been thrown on him, these
technical things. Man can’t control it. Why, you got some twelve year old teenager that can use a computer. They got to have
somebody, a grown person that can give respect to these teenagers, these sub teenagers. They’re wild, but in Chicago I had
a lot of them around me at the University of Illinois. The man almost had to put the lights out on them. They was listening
to me. After the performance they was right there listening to me talk. They couldn't get enough of what I was saying. They
was all white, you know. The point of it comes down to it doesn't matter what color they are now. They have the capability
of doing something about this planet. lt’s down to that particular point. So the people who have been doing this on the color
or religion or this and that they can forget that. lt’s not like that anymore. Because if anybody can save this planet . . . don’t
care what they are communists or whatsoever. The men on this planet must recognize that and forget this other stuff.
Beggars can’t be choosers. So it you got anybody or any nation that has got something worthwhile to offer the world . . . This
is the time that the world has to step back and let them have it. These forces are telling me that, yes, I’m the only one who
can do it and I’m saying well why not some of these preachers or some of these other people. These politicians. They said
no. They’re not acceptable.

Pll: You're much more sincere. There's no question of that.

SR: That’s what they said. They said l’m sincere. That I wouldn't get involved in something for ulterior motives and this
planet needs sincerity. It’s simple. Sincerity will do the trick.

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. E »]UNGER« des angeblich auflerirdischen Iazz-Gurus, das »Arkestra«, zeigte sich
K ebenso kreativ wie diszipliniert. '
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