VVIIEN ANGBS SPEAK mmsanmuawuutxwumurnmm wnwmclwulummlmr ummmwwuuuzlumuns muoluntmmnuummuupwwm. Illllflflflflflfilllfl ‘ U-lfifdlfifll! DNWMMfl¢ QflENm. umsusp av pm ms; 4 r 6; to {j “ T H {I DSIN; : 0-. ’ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Bruce Owens(The Poet) October 3l,1988...One AM...Santa Cruz,California............ Sun Ra:Piano can talk,you know. John Hindsznow about Art Tatum?Did you ever hear that Beautiful Love?! sent you Art Tatum doing Beautiful Love. SR:0h yeah.I used to listen to that.I didn't know the song at that time.I didn't know it had words to anything but it was very nice,you know.You have to,you have to listen to it'cause it's sort of classical in one sense but it's timeless you might say. Victor Young wrote that and he wrote a lot of other beautiful songs.I'm doing a lot of things about for musicians who wrote beautiful things.we got to bring them back.Like Cole Porter, Jerome Kern.They wrote some very beautiful melodies and America didn't awake to how wonderful they were.I'm doing their songs in another way. . JH:Yeah,Beautiful Love.I wasn't aware of it untill you did it and- then I did my homework and found Art Tatum doing it and a few other versions.Beautiful,you know. SR:And Yesterdays.I didn't play it tonight but Yesterdays is one of my favorite songs.Jerome Kern wrote a lot of nice things.I'm putting them over into hot jazz arrangement. Poet:I saw Leadbelly,you know....(laughs) JH:How about Chelsea Bridge? SR:Chelsea Bridge is nice,too. JH:That's wonderful harmonies on that. Poet:This guy(JH)is,like,recording you,man. SR:Yeah. Poet:It's like everything that's being said is,like,being happening on his,1ike,hear that?(Recites poem) SR:Nice.That's just nice.Now,unintelligible talk about the black hole(poem had a reference to black holes)and then the black hole be...it's intriguing.All that out there is intriguing.You know, it's impossible some of the things out there when you think about it.You know,I had this vision about two months ago...was I in Japan or Germany? Poet:A dream? Sr:well,it was like a vision.I was in this...I was up there in the darkness.It was so dark I couldn't see anything and I was walking and I kept on walking then all at once I saw some colors that was nothing like here.It was so red that in the darkness you could see everything but the darkness still there but the colors over there were vibrating so and there were things,I don't know what it was but the colors was something e1se.Now,I had another vision where I saw...I went in a big department store.The department store was so big untill you couldn't see the sides of it.Anyway you look you couldn't see no...just the roof and kinds of things.And I had...it was some socks there that were like...precious jewelry but not like nothing they got here. It was extremely precious and you could put...it would fit any- body.You put it on and it would be like your skin.And they had some pants that was the same thing.It would fit anybody.You'd put it on and you'd be just like a person made out of jewelry. And I said,"You know,I should get this for the band.How much do these stockings(cost)?"And they said two hundred dollars.And I said,"well,I want to see about some pants."They said five hun- dred dollars.Then I came back.(from the vision)But I did say, "where am I?"They said Brazil.I said,"Brazil ain't got nothing like this."Brazil unintelligible.There's nothing like that on planet earth.I had that...so,I seen some things that(are)not in any books.I'm really not describing what I saw because it can't be described because there's no comparison to what they got out there.And I've seen some dancers in space that were like trees. They were so ta11...dancing...dancing.wonderful,you know.Every time I see a poplar tree I think about those dancers.So,some- times,I mean,when I got the band right I be doing those dances I seen up in space with the music.Moving like the wind.Like the wind and like the ocean and that's what I'm doing in my music. I want to be like the ocean and like the wind and like the trees and like the bit s.That's part of nature,you see,And then I saw, §_gj V é:“; ,e . _H%$$ykkHfi_ and one day,I think I was in Spain,and it was some grass out there and it was about like that ta11.It was one blade of grass that was doing like this...I took the band...the wind wasn't blowing.I took the band and said,"Look at that,the blade of grass unintelligible."Now,there's no explanation for that.The other blades of grass was just as tall but one was doing like that. (moving back and forth)....we11,I saw that blade of grass.And if we open are eyes we can see things other people can't see.If you speak unintelligible.The unusual speaks to us and say,you know, yes there's something e1se.And whenever a person see the unusual they ready.But if... Poet:Jesus!You look(like)a genie.(Sun Ra and the poet laugh) SR:Well,I had all these experiences.I had some experiences... Poet:what's your name again(joking)?I'm Bruce Owens. SR:Sun Ra.You know,somebody asked me...a lot of people ask me, what's your real name?I say,well,my passport of the United States government got Sun Ra and the Library of Congress they got a card that say where,strange1y enough,his real name is Sun Ra and all the rest of the names are pseudonyms.And this(is in)the Library of Congress. Bruce 0wens:where are you originally from,though? SR:Well,I'm from planet Saturn.But I landed in Birmingham, Alabama.(they both laugh) B0:where? SR:I landed in Birmingham.In the magic city.They had a big sign up there.Magic city.That was Birmingham,Alabama.The magic city. And,in fact,this fellow who was sitting down and wanting to talk (earlier in the evening)was from Birmingham. B0:So how the hell did you get into jazz to begin with,man? Come on,man.There's an original point,man,of conception. SR:I wanted to find out why this planet is like it is.And I felt that people worshiping God that something...that he doesn't re- gard nothing they doing. B0:when did you get free? SR:well,then what happenend is that...they wouldn't teach me about jazz in school.And...when I was a baby in the cradle my people liked Bessie Smith,Clara Smith,Mamie Smith and that's what they were p1aying.But as I grew up I didn't know nothing about that.But,you know,it's in my mind and they were playing Coleman Hawkins,Fletcher Henderson.They's playing all those things.And Ethel waters and then I grew up where I had found I had been listening to some great people and we were staying next door to a house where Bessie Smith(and)everybody stayed in that house.They didn't stay in hotels... B0:where was that house? SR:It was in Birmingham. JH:Do you remember the street?Is the street still there? SR:Yes.Eighth Avenue.Eighth Avenue and Thirty Third Street or something 1ike(that).But,anyway,they was in this house and everybody stayed there that was an entertainer.we was right next door.So then they always gave us passes.So we always went,you know.So I was acquainted with them but I was just seven and eight and nine years old.I didn't know nothing but then I come to find out Ethel Waters was great,Bessie Smith was great.Clara Smith,Mamie Smith...I was right there with all of them.So then that's all that's in me. JH:I wonder if you saw Coleman Hawkins with Mamie Smith... SR:He was with Fletcher Henderson. JH:At that time.That(Mamie Smith)wou1d be earlier then. BO:what age were you conscious? SR:About five,five years old. B0:Really conscious,huh? SR:You can't learn anything in that... B0:I mean,I understand that. SR:But when you poor that means you're elevated from...we1l,you touch the eternal stone...because an ordinary man,he hasn't touched upon,he hasn't touched upon that mysterious thing which inspires him to be musical in words.And poetry is really wonder- ful.I liked...I studied all the English poets.I read Shakespeare. I studied Russian literature,especially...but I didn't know what I was doing.I just liked to read.I read so much in the library.I read all the fiction and I had to jump over into reading auto- biographies and things. JH:what school did you say?That was in your elementary school? SR:This was the public 1ibrary.I was always...and you know(I was) always in school.I was teaching because,see,I make research... teacher give me an assignment.I go there and read more books.I come back to class I know more than the teacher. B0:But if the lineage presents itself to you... SR:lt would be space. BO:It is...will always be but you got to understand something, see?They've broken it down into a chemical process and I am in disagreement with them because I believe...that consciousness... conscious mind...I mean,universities are,like,proclaiming as kind of like a binomial....(????) SR:wel1,we got to deal with the Omniverse now. BO:Heideger said that the poet exists so beings exists so.. SR:Yeah,l'm talking about being.I've reached a stage where life is...to me,1ife only produces dead bodies.I have to judge the tree by the fruit(Bruce Owens starts laughing)...we need some- thing else.Life is...1ife got starving babies and it's got... BO:Here's one for...I was in Alaska and I was,1ike,standing on the docks of Kodiak Island,right?I was looking over...over this mountain,right?This volcanic thing popping up out of the gulf of Alaska.So 1 spoke with the A1euts,right?I drank wine with them and I wrote this poem.In the clear distance I see mountain peaks covered with white shawls an old woman left when they pass from this world into the next. SR:That's nice....We got to go now.Jack(Rich)is here and he's the manager and he got a lot of things to do for tomorrow. B0:So they're in control of you,huh? SR:No.Tomorrow we got to play San Francisco and he flew all the down from New York... BO:I don't give a shit about San Francisco!I'm more curious about talking with you. SR:We11,I enjoyed talking to you. BO:No,because I heard through the grapevine that you're the greatest.In jazz now,you are. SR:Thank you. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...February l4,1986...... Sun Ra:I was talking to Pat Patrick. Peter Hinds:Pat Patrick? SR:Uh huh. PH:what was he saying? SR:we1l,he playing with us...He's played with us the last tour and he's here now.we-going to Harrisburgh(Pennsylvania)tomorrow. PH:Great!He went up to Toronto with you? SR:Yeah,he was there. PH:Good.So you had the two baritones. SR:No,he usually plays bass. PH:Oh,you mean bass guitar? SR:You know.Electric bass. PH:I see. SR:And then he plays...tomorrow he playing the tenor. ' PH:when did you talk to him about coming back and playing? SR:I didn't. PH:He just decided? SR:Yes. PH:That's fantastic.I've never had a chance to see him. SR:Yeah,well,you will now. PH:That's great.I wasn't able to talk with Rona1d(wilson)today. SR:You weren't? PH:No,I called and left a message telling him to call me,very important and maybe he didn't get it or whatever but he...I didn't get the ca1l.what I am going to do tomorrow...I’m going to get up real early and drive to his place(in San Francisco)... SR:well,you probably could...tomorrow's saturday so you still could get the tape.I thought maybe I'd have it,you know,for tom- orrow unintelligible... \ ——:—e*—————:j :ej:j PH:You should have,if everything worked. SR:well,I started to send it by mail but I unintelligible.Just send it by him.He would get it immediately,you know. PH:So we'll go up there and see if we can get in touch with him. we should be able to see him.We're going to drive up about ten o'clock in the morning. SR:Well,I thought you were going to see him last night. PH:No,it would be a chance(because) he was supposed to be playing last night somewhere.I don't know where. SR:Oh,I thought you knew where. PH:No,I didn't.No,he just said he was playing with ...he had to hang up after about two minutes.I really didn't have a chance to talk very long with him at all to find out what was going on with specifics. SR:That was some nice write ups(reviews)you sent. PH:0h yeah.That one from the Bay Area Music Calender with your photo and everyone in the band got a mention.That was very nice. SR:Well,you still didn't get the things from Toronto.I thought you'd have them by then. PH:we1l,Ronald(wilson)has those. SR:Yeah,he got that from the other places,too. PH:Yeah,so that's what I'm hoping(for)tomorrow.I‘11 be able to see him and I probably will.He'll probably be at home at ten in the morning. SR:well,the Ronald thing is fantastic,you know.They put every- thing I was saying in there and something,something unintellig- gible.I got a letter from France today,too. PH;From France? SR:And it was astounding,you know....I told you about that when we come over there. PH:Oh yeah.Now,is this the proposal? SR:Yeah.they talking about giving me...charge of all the arts. The whole thing.The painters,the sculptors,the unintelligible. The top level of musicians and whatever.It's fantastic letter, you know.I wasn't expecting all that.I be in charge of all the arts in France. PH:Now,is this set for May or_something like that? SR:That's the unintelligible of culture,the government. PH:So what's their timetable? SR:well,they talking about we being there three years.This project I have is the twenty first century.Twenty first century creativity for France.I couldn't do it in America,in a sense. I was trying and people like me here but it's better for me,I found that it's better for a government to back me‘up because they can get all the things I need,you know.Synthesizers,this and that and the other and I need some musicians to work with. Over here they be so uptight with different things(that)they can't come to rehearsals like that but this is a case where the government will furnish me musicians. PH:Did you see the article?That(what Sun Ra's talking about) sort of ties in with that article I sent you... - SR:Yes. Pflinbout Pierre Boulez. SR:0h yeah,that's in France.Yeah,they was talking-about that but, evident1y,that wasn't exactly what they wanted.They want to deal with compositions of unintelligible of natural musicians(with)- electronics...what they need is,real1y.a composer and arranger. That's the way I fit in'cause I got so many compositions that I utterly astound myself when I be listening to some things I got. That's what 1've’heen listening(to)today.Fantastic sounds and, you know,it's a big job. Pflzcertainly is. SR:But I can do it.I just have to have,I have to have me about two interpreters...it's~incredible.But I'm very shocked myself that a government would be that interested in what I'm doing and talking about... PH:That's commendable. SR:I don't think that's ever been done before.Particularly'cause I'm from another country. PH:Yeah,that's unusual. SR:Right. PH:I know the government gave Mr.Boulez quite a bit to work with(IRCAM)there in that institute but he's French of course... So this is a different... SR:We1l,he don't the have American hot jazz.I got that.And France likes the hot jazz.Some kind of way I be blocked,you see. Like,they was supposed to put that record out about,you know. the(Phil)Alvin of the Blasters. PH:Yeah,what's happening with that? SR:They haven't put it out yet. PH:I know. SR:So,you know,(it's)blocked,you know.Al1 kind of blocks and that's really a good record.It really would make him unintelli- . gible,hesitating and all that so it's best for me is to just go on to France then I...unintelligib1e...keep on moving.Here it's kind of difficult here.Like Bill Cosby,he had all them folks on i there and he right here in Philadelphia.He knows about me and he didn't include me in that(a concert with Art Blakey and others) but that's all right.I don't need him. PH:I missed that,unfortunately. SR:I just need myself.I didn't know nothing about it but I see Art Blakey on there and a lot of other people.But unintelligible,p I don't need him.If I have a government behind me I don't need his kind.And it's good for me and...and then I would have Ger- many,if I could go to Europe I'd have all of these European countries backing me up.Well,I could teach jazz musicians over there about doing that'cause that's something they can't do.Al— ways tried to imitate me but you can't do that.So,it‘s time,you know,I’m ready to go now but I got a few more dates... PH:You going to play New York... SR:I play there on the fourth....and Basil....playing the‘ University of Illinois....I got a few more dates...supposed to be with John Cage but,you know,they move it to June and I don't like that too well.I reckon they move it to where the weather...is better'cause it's supposed to be out in Coney Island.So,things like John Cage is very pleased to be with me. But I was thinking about making a record with him and I just got to get his number. PH:with John Cage?That would be interesting.Are you going to get together and talk_with him a little bit before? SR:well,I'm going to talk to him and we just go to a studio... and make it. PH:And do something. SR:That would be fantastic. PH§That would be. 4! . SR:I was thinking about it and I'm going to put it into action. PH:well,he's right in Manhattan,isn't he?.' SR:Yeah,he's somewhere there.I reckon I can find out from this fellow who's...some kind of arts club.I can find out from him how to get in touch with him.I think he's be interested.I am.’ Even if I put it out on cassette or somewhere,he and I discussing music.It still would sell. I PH:Oh yeah.That's right.That would be quite a meeting of the minds,I tell you. » SR:why,we could make a video together.That would be interesting. -well,it's a lot of possibilities I can unintelligible do that. ‘Cause I've reached on past just the...you know,the ordinary. That's out.Some of these tapes I got just rehearsing,you'd be astounded.Just rehearsing. I PH:Some things you've been working on recently? SR:No,I'm talking about through the years.Now,what I do,I just reach in and get a tape,a cassette...well,I finally get around to them...and I got so many things that(are)really unintelli- gible...So that's what I'm going to do,you see.And,like,I need a outlet or something else'cause a government could do it. Like,I could take my tapes over there and acquaint them to what I've been doing for years.Like conservatories and different things.The whole thing would be a whole different image for France.It ought to be America but then what can I do? > It's very.......America.....well,it's got too many conflicts of interest,I suppose.well,it will come over here from Europe. But they going to give me a villa they say and I won't have to pay no rent and then I'll be lecturing at the conservatories. Have the whole thing,you know. - PH:That'll be amazing. Sk:Fantastic. PH:That is.You'll have access to some really beautiful pianos. SR:Oh,yeah.That's one thing,yes,I give concerts with twenty or fifty pianos...I got so many ideas I just need the outlet. PH:Have you ever done a concert,(with)maybe,two pianos back to back...where you can play two at once? SR:we were supposed to do that in Los Angeles once at a concert there at the University of California.You know,sometimes fate steps...what happened is the night before,I think,Cannonball Adderley or somebody p1ayed...the night before some teenagers went up and they was trying to get down into the something up there.The air vent‘or something and they triggered the fire (alarm).water,it wet the space all up.The firemen came and \ 10 II turned all the electricity off.They had to cancel the concert. So we came the nextynight(and)they were afraid to turn the electricity on.They had these two long pianos.that Paul Bley was going to be at one and I was going to be at the other.You know,but fate intervened.Shelley Manne was there...about five or six more white musicians.That would have been something.It didn't happen.we had these two 1ong,I mean these was some long pianos.Going to be back to back.So something stepped in and stopped it.It's better for me to be somewhere where I won't be blocked.I don't know why jazz has been so severly blocked in / America.I can't understand it.They getting ready to put up a rock palace in Philadelphia.The home of rock.Rock and roll. But they putting up nothing for jazz.(chuckles)So I can see that jazz is being just dismissed.Particularly like big bands, you know.which I really like big bands.They tend to neglect that particular thing.No need for me to be fighting it by my- self.So I can go over there and I can have what I,want.And what I need,too. PH:Speaking of pianos,included in some of the stuff we sent you, is.a little information regarding a sustain peddle you can buy for your(Yamaha)DX-7.That will give you a piano action with your feet.I think it's about twenty five dollars. . SR:Really? PH"Yeah.So that will give you a real true piano setup,you know. SR:They got it up here so you can find out wether they got it there. , V PH:0K.You take a look at the literature and John's underlined it in yellow so take a look at that and you'll find the description that'll tell you about it and we'll check it out and see who's got one out here. . a ' ‘ SR:wel1,I hope he(Ronald wilson)give you that money so I can get that together.. a _‘ ‘ ‘ PH:Yeah,I hope so too.You know,I'll go up there tomorrow morning. what time are you leaving tomorrow? SR:I'm leaving at six in the morning. PH:OK.I'll call you sunday.You'll be back sunday what time? SR:I'l1 be back,well,we...we1l,I'll be back about twelve noon or maybe before then'cause we leaving at midnight.It‘s not but a two hour or three hour drive so we'll just gauge itself like that.You can also find out how much is a TX-7 cost.The module. I can get a thousand effects with this.Already got the cassette to go in there.Some kind of way you put together the-cassette tape recorder,which I got a computer cassette recorder and you. plug that into the module and someway you get one thousand(and) one effects.But up here it costs about six hundred dolars or something like that.If you could investigate how much you could get it for there. PH:0K.I'll check that out. PH:Is anyone else playing in the band?Have you added anybody else to these dates?You mentioned Boogaloo on drums... Sun Ra:His name is Marvin Smith....well,you know,he stayed in Rome for some time in Italy.But he's really...you'll be very pleased with him.He's got a sense of humor,too.It's too bad, you know,I should have sent for him when I was out there(SF). I started to...but I didn't.Unintelligible didn't have any drums.He left his drums...but I'm telling you,he really is playing. _ ‘ PH:And he fits in well with all the Fletcher Henderson things and all that? SR:He fits in with everything.And then he's good...he takes wonderful solos and he swings and that's what I need.He got a sense of humor,too.Just one thing he's worried about.The fellas be telling him about the Ra fire.(chuckles)It was the funniest thing.He said,"we1l,I want to see what it is.Whether I like it. (1aughs)."They said,"You don't want no Ra fire."So finally, Tyrone(Hill)did something and when he(Marvin Smith)saw what I was telling Tyrone he said,"Well,I don't like the Ra fire.I don't want it."(laughs)It was really funny.It was so amusing. PH:And is John Ore playing bass? SR:Yes.That's right,he didn't come out there(SF)with us. PH:No,it was just Tyler(Mitchell). I SR:He(John Ore)rea1ly playing.The next time we'll see what we can 'do.Ronald was talking about some fellow out there that wanted to come and play.But he never wrote to us.... PH:Sounds very promising now.Sounds like things are coming to—’ gether for that France project. SR:well,music needs to be out there to the full unintelligible, you know.It hasn't been there because musicians have difficulty. They have,you know,financial problems and this and that.Some—~ times they get it,sometimes they can't.But over there they'd be getting a salary and I could have fifty pieces in my band. 12 SR:There's a lot of musicians be stealing-my ideas and making people think it's them but if I got unintelligible musicians to work with everybody will know where it's coming from....Then the music will be written and I will copyright everything to put it on the world market. ‘ And that way I be having,not only would I be teaching the music— , ians in France but the ones all over the world'cause they would 1 get the sheet music,analyze and study.well,that's what I have to 7 do next. PH:Any new records coming out? SR:I'm going to work on it.There are some records coming from England.I don't think you got that record. PH:I found that one on Recommended. SR:what was the name of that? PH:The Cosmo-Sun Connection. SR:Yeah,I think that may be it.That's got my picture on there. Yeah,that's the one.That's a nice album.I don't have one myself. PH:I managed to find one copy up in San Francisco.They got it in on import.And I also managed to get a copy of the thing in Atlanta,Georgia with the organ. SR:Oh,really.How'd you like that? PH:The recording was,you know,fair,but the music was ...I mean that is fantastic. SR:That is a big organ. PH:That is incrediblellt really is.The percussion,the gongs(and) the drums. SR:Yeah,you know,June just heard that last week.(She)said she put it on(and)she was startled,you know. PH:Oh,it is.It is truly incredible. SR:And the longer you listen to that the more sounds...The organ had so many sounds.Layers of sounds.So it's out there and now they know...it's really,I got so much to offer.It runs over into the fantastic but if I had a big band to work with I'd have to need a lot of copyists,you know,where they could write off these things I tell them.Going to need machines,too.The kind that,the computer machines(that will)type out the music.Get(it)out to the world.I'm ready for that,now. PH:Yeah,that‘s right.But that organ extravaganza is amazing. SR:You got the right name to that.Hiroshima. PH:Did you record that on your videotape machine? SR:No,it was recorded...well Danny(Thompson)does have a video tape.Some kind of digital cassette recorder.That's something new. And then it was taken off of that.I think it was put on directly from the cassette. PH:Oh,I see.'Cause it could have sounded a little bit better. SR:Right.That is why.He(DT)didn't have no original,he had a copy of the digital cassette.So,but the feeling is there.It could have been more...something could have been done to it.But,then,I just wanted it out there. PH:Yeah.It goes for about fifteen minutes and fades out.How long did you actually play with that organ? SR:I played a lot longer.But,you know,by being an organ I cut it kind of short to put it out because the fact of the grooves.The vibrations might make it jump...(Speaking of the limitations of vinyl records) PH:That's right.I was just...I heard that and I thought there's got to be more to that and I'm glad to hear there is. SR:we1l,if it's on tape,you see,it doesn't matter too much about, maybe a little wow or something,but when you put it on disc you got to watch those grooves'cause it will jump over...organs are very hard to record.I mean to take off(To transfer from tape to disc in the mastering process).So he had,he had to make that about five or six times'cause he wasn't satisfied when he was unintelligible. PH:You can get only get,like,twenty minutes on a side of a record or SO00! SR:That's right. PH:And that organ was making such incredible sounds(Especially the low frequencies which can cause problems in the disc master- ing),you know. SR:The grooves are far apart on there,you see,and that's why he had to cut it short. PH:Yeah,that's right.I understand.So I was just hoping,I thought there's got to be more so I'm glad there is more on the tape. SR:Oh yeah,well,I had quite a bit of it.In fact,I'm going to have to put the video out that Danny has where I'm playing the organ. PH:You really should.Sight and sound would be... SR:Lack of money is what's been barring me.what I need is like an unintelligible circuit of people who are interseted in what I'm doing.I have to do that and.then it won't have to be just on the regular market.It can be part of an unintelligible jazz club or fan club,whatever it is.It would be better for me. PH:You should do a mail order kind of thing and put out a little catalogue and when you get orders you can just make... SR:I can do that,too.That's what they be doing on TV.Maybe two weeks to delivery or something like that so what they do is they get the orders and then they fix them up. PH:That's right. SR:Yeah,that's a good idea. PH:'Cause when you do your concerts you can bring along your albums but also bring along a flyer to hand out to everybody indicating what's available in records,tapes or videos and people could send in and when you get your orders you can just make them up and all that money would just be coming directly, you know,into your mailbox. SR:It's a big project. PH:I know Danny is very pusy,it would be one more thing to keep him more than busy.You'd have to have a little assistance,you know. SR:You'd have to have a lot of assistance because it's so big that Danny gets nervous,he can't keep up because it's stretching out even more.He was really startled by the French thing.He didn't think it would go out that big.Unintel1igible where you dealing with unintelligible,politicians and governments.That's another story,you know.You got to learn something about French, too.Need interpreters,you know.It's amazing.I'm very happy about it,excited about it.So I can see the potentia1s.The potentials are so vast.It's wonderful to think that the government would be interested where I couldn't get commercial folks interested. 15 r::- .._;‘;;;:;-x _‘-v ‘-.,.:i»£;;L'_’_ ..L\‘~.“:_.. 2.22..‘ ..-‘H-‘ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.............. 16’1986000OOOOOOIIIIOOOOOOOOOO0000000000000OOOOOOOOOIOOO Sun Ra:I'm not asking America for anything.They don't owe me anything.I'm not mad with anybody.It's just too bad that all these years they missed what I'm doing.Even with the records I put out,the other things I didn't put out are more valuable. John Hinds:Yes.Some of those tapes are probably getting quite old and maybe brittle. SR:They might just not ever be of use to this planet. JH:They might tend to fall apart which would be horrible. SR:That's right.well,yes that is possible.So,see,if the French government have it,they'1l preserve it and they will re—copy it and they can give me the machines to work with.I need all that at this point,you see.I need the best equipment they have. Recorders and,like this fellow,he was telling me about(that)he got all that.So,he got everything to work with so he's rich and I'm a pauper so I don't see why a pauper should go and talk to a rich person.It would discourage me.And here's somebody(that) got everything to work with and I have nothing to work with. I wouldn't want to be discouraged. JH:All I know is he(Pierre Boulez)really showed admiration for you and had heard of you and I said(that)you were going to be in France and he said,"Oh,marvelous,if he would just stop by." ‘Cause he doesn't know where you'd be. SR:I'm dealing with the Creator of the Universe.It's not proper to open peoples minds up to something which they probably could never(be)interested by.Not any more.They dealing with God and other things and devils and stuff.I'm not dealing with that. So,then,my time can no longer be wasted with those who(are) not going to make it.They might make it on the Earth plane and be accepted by the whole world but they not accepted by the Creator I worship.And I'm not going to unintelligible anybody.It's very difficult to reach him.It's more difficult than reaching the President of the United States.He's very exclusive.Now,he got a lot of other things out there to interest people because of their limited vision and they still over there untill they get bored with it and want something better.So most people are satisfied with money or sex or dope or power or ego and therefore they can't reach the Creator I'm talking about.Because it's another story.You take,like,Pat(Patrick).when we got ready to play last night(February 15,l986.Harrisburgh,Pennsy1vania)he couldn't move his...some fingers and thumb because unintelligible be able to play.Because something has happened,that he slepped on his arm on the bus going down there...and so...he be saying,"See,I can't, I can't move this thumb and finger here.My arm hasn't awakened yet,seemingly?So then I had to heal him instantly by taking his sense in me going out there unintelligible to see who is no consequence to me or the Creator.It's a waste of my energy and time.But,then,it's like the case of Marshall(Allen)when he was in 0akland.0ne morning he couldn't walk.He was crawling and I had to go in there and say a few words to him)and)he stood up and unintelligible walked.Now,I'm dealing with a force that is so powerful I can even raise the dead.Now,he(Marshall) didn't go out there telling people things like that and doing things for people.I can't do it'cause I'm so busy,in a sense.to do things like that.I'm not a phony,I'm totally sincere.I can save this whole planet but,the point of it,if people are selfish(then) it's not right for me to save selfish people.I'm,even now,get- ting more restrictive as to the musicians I use.I don't want nobody selfish in this band.I don't care how much they play.It's bad for me to have a man down here,a woman,anybody who is sel— fish because it discourages me.And I don't need no discourage- ment.So then I got to have people around me who are,well,this band will be a...be more unusual because I have to be very care- ful as(to)who I'm using in this band'cause if they got the slightest degree of selfishness it's going to discourage me and make me feel that man is not worth saving.So,therefore,I know that some people are unselfish.I have to unintelligible by that; hand in mine.So he played.So,you see,with that kind of power it's no now.And therefore,the whole picture of this band is getting ready to change.It's getting ready to change.And It's getting ready to be more exclusive than ever.It will be the most exclusive organization that is ever been on planet Earth. Jflzwhen did you first come into contact with cosmic forces?Back in Chicago?Space beings or were you contacted in any kind of way sometime? SR:well,actually,I was ignorant of certain things.I didn't know myself.when I first...when I was a child I felt I came from some- where else and I was happy.I was inexpressively happy and I was pure and I thought everybody else was on this planet.So that put me at the mercy of some forces that were not friendly and they wasn't pure and they was antogonistic at me from the day I arrived on this planet.It was antagonistic and it did everything, even before I had a band,to discourage me unintelligib1e,it did everything it possibly aould to make me think I was nothing and I couldn't do anything(and)to make me feel some kind of shame. To flop,flop,flop.And I had that before I had a band.So...I was just listening to it and it wasn't just the white race because they didn't know nothing about me.It came from the black race (and)it came sometime from my grandmother.lt came,a lot of times, just unforeseen and I didn't know what the attack was.But I had this idea that I came from somewhere else and I was happy inside that I had come from somewhere else.And it stayed with me.It wasn't just a dream.It's from nowhere I came from,it's with me and it's still with me and I express that in my music.So,really, they couldn't do nothing to me'cause I've seen something they don't know nothing about and I express that in my music.So,the world can feel it and see it and they can be a part of it.But I'm not mad with anybody and I'm not against anybody because of their race,creed or color.It does not interest me at all because I can't...I was sent here to help this planet and that's it.That I have to do that and if I can't do it here I'll do it somewhere else. JH:So you were saying your grandmother was against that,too? SR:well,she just against me personally or something.You know, it was these forces.They used people who is supposed to be friends.But I understand a little better now that it wasn't them.It was some force that was determined to block me and to keep me from being succesful(and)to make me be ordinary(and)to make me seem like what I was doing was of no worth and it was trying to do that through the years.And when I tell some people about the rest of it they would say(I)have a good imagination. But it wasn't my imagination.It's not my imagination that I came from somewhere else.But,to discuss that with People is ridicu- lous.I don't have to discuss anything else with them about that. I'm not asking them to believe.I don't care.It's of no conse-* quence because the people on this planet...they have no unin- telligible and never have been to this power I'm talking about. So it does not care whether they believe or not.It does not care because it's eternal and their thing is here today and gone to- morrow.So why should somebody come to me?Unintelligible care about here today and gone tomorrow people.Actually,it doesn't have to.Because it's greater than men.And if they want something they have to reach up and recognize that power.It is not going to recognize them because they too small and too insignificant. well,their ego got them where they think they unintelligible. Those kind of people that went up in smoke shows that this power does not care.It does not care.Because they got to be precise and disciplined down here.And they got to recognize someone that's for them that was sent to help them and got the authority to help them.If they don't do that,well,here today and gon tomorrow.It's a very serious situation. JH:Yeah,they don't realize that.They don't see it.I don't know why they want to keep dying over and over again. SR:Well,it's because they refuse to recognize anything else better. JH:why they just want to keep dying and dying and dying,you know? SR:we1l,they got to be sincere.That's what it takes.Sincerity. I've had a lot of people write me who are sincere.From the deep south mostly.white people. JH:That's something. 18 SR:I haven't had any black ones from down there write me.I've got some of them from South Carolina,Atlanta,Georgia and Alabama. They're from white people who are supposed to be prejudiced and supposed to be the worst of discriminators.I can say that I've reached the hearts of those southerners.In Atlanta,Georgia they want me to come hack every year at new years and play their.So, and I got the keys to the city of Atlanta,Georgia so...what can I say? JH:George Wallace gave you recognition. SR:Right. PH:(Mayor)Andrew Young in Atlanta. SR:He never showed up.The only time I met him was in Nigeria and he was at the American Embassy and he was,we was invited to this party so he was shaking everyone's hand.when I came up...there was a white ambassador(and)with his elbow and touched Andrew Young on the side and said,"This is Sun Ra."So he didn't even know. Jflzfle didn't even know you. SR:He didn't even know who I was.0r maybe he never heard of me but the white ambassador did know me and pushed him in his side and said,This is Sun Ra."So that lets you know the state of affairs. JH:he had to cue him to let him know who you were.That's pretty ignorant of Andrew Young. SR:well,it's just like the black race(is)in some kind of condi- tion o£...they have no status with the Creator I'm talking about. They don't exist.Therefore,they don't know things.They just like they're dead.They don't...know things.They try hard.I give them credit and they're very zealous in their religions and all that but it's not recognized by the Creator that I'm worshiping.It's a big joke to him.I can't go and tell them that'cause they try hard.But...it‘s not going to do them any good,unfortunately. JH:well,it's kind of a dead end,you know.The road they're on £8000 SR:Hell,as long as...they're happy with it.It's like a person you don't know.They can be very happy with it... Continued in issue twenty two of Sun Ra Research. 19 A muzmuaururmunulnnmuu wsmmwuuunuv/mmwmnImwur1ucuIImummr SIMIIUNR wm-Iunnnmnulnouwrnuur mmmummun nmm urusnuuluunz nmnmmu ssrlmmamzauammmaumus mnannlnusuu muruunnslnxamrluunz wurIn=mnwIIuun:mmuu/nlzmw Irrtmunrlnamnamxman-mama Iimvmmwuwnmmwuumummnmmlwnmuummsnmms Anuwmmasmav/Asmamwmmmmuuurwmmus Iaumummmummnuum I'M NOT A PHONY, I'M TOTALLY SINCERE. I cAN sAvE THIs wHOI.E PI.ANET BUT, THE POINT OI= IT: II= PEOPLE ARE sEI.I=IsH (THEN) IT'S NOT RIGHT FOR ME TO sAvE sEI.I=IsH PEOPLE. I'M, EVEN‘ NOW. GETTING MORE nEsTIucTIvE As TO THE MusI