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Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 06 (April, 1996)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: APRIL, 1996 R E L E M R E M W "”/.////)'//////‘/// CONVERSATION WITH JOHN GILMORE 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS OCTOBER 13, 1984 RUTHIE’S INN - BERKELEY, CA JH: I think the horn is sounding good. Real good. JG: It’s working in. It’s coming. It’s a nice sounding horn and the way it’s built. The keys are very high and you almost have to learn to play all over again. The key are very high. JH: But it’s you, You’re sounding good. JG: We’re coming into each other. The horn and I are finally . . . I’m learning . . . JH: That horn has a higher action. JG: Yeah, real high. Much higher than a normal Selmer. It'll probably strengthen your hands after a while because you’ve got to do that. They’re way up here. They’re not close like a Mark Six I had. JH: What is this? A Super Eighty? JG: The latest one. That’s where it’s at. It’s keys are very high. I’ll show you (opens case). (Demonstrates fingering on the saxophone.) JG: You have to learn how to get your touch all adjusted to it....
Show moreAPRIL, 1996 R E L E M R E M W "”/.////)'//////‘/// CONVERSATION WITH JOHN GILMORE 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS OCTOBER 13, 1984 RUTHIE’S INN - BERKELEY, CA JH: I think the horn is sounding good. Real good. JG: It’s working in. It’s coming. It’s a nice sounding horn and the way it’s built. The keys are very high and you almost have to learn to play all over again. The key are very high. JH: But it’s you, You’re sounding good. JG: We’re coming into each other. The horn and I are finally . . . I’m learning . . . JH: That horn has a higher action. JG: Yeah, real high. Much higher than a normal Selmer. It'll probably strengthen your hands after a while because you’ve got to do that. They’re way up here. They’re not close like a Mark Six I had. JH: What is this? A Super Eighty? JG: The latest one. That’s where it’s at. It’s keys are very high. I’ll show you (opens case). (Demonstrates fingering on the saxophone.) JG: You have to learn how to get your touch all adjusted to it. So it gets a little strange when you first play it. After awhile I guess you have to get used to it. JH: That’s a high one. You didn’t have that on your other . . . JG: No. No F#. That makes it a lot easier. Dig the height of the keys. That’s a lot of opening. A lot more than a Selmer usually has. JH: New Link up there? (Referring to the Otto Link mouthpiece.) JG: No. It’s two years old. JH: Is that a ten? JG: No. A nine. I had an eleven but it wore out. JH: Don’t your chops have to be just really . . . JG: You have to build up to it. I felt at that time because the high notes were too thin with the mouthpiece I was using. JH: So you wanted to open it up more? JG: Yeah. So the high notes are there. Because — the pressure on - will break getting those high notes and still get your low notes. With your hard reeds and open mouth- piece like that. The low notes become very difficult. JH: What kind of reed? A medium? JG: A three. JH: All right! Chops! I’ll call you Lockjaw. JG: Laughs. (Pat) Patrick had the mouthpiece open for me. First Link that I had. It final- ly wore out after twenty years. Just wouldn’t play no more. It went out of pitch. PH: How is Pat Patrick? What’s he up to? JG: I don’t know. He’s been gigging around. He’s been living in the Bronx. Last I heard he was working with a dancer friend of ours. Still playing. But I haven’t seen him in a while to see what he’s really talking about or doing. 1 PH: Who are some of the other musicians on that one hundred piece orchestra thing you did last August? JG: That was a whole bunch of cats, man. There was David Murray, Frank Lowe, Gary Bartz, John Ford, Billy Bang, John Ore, Roy Burroughs on trumpet. The trumpet player that plays with David Murray, I forget his name. JH: Butch Morris? JG: Butch Morris. He was on bass. We had six or seven bass players. Three violinists. Around three guitar players. It was mean. Kalaparusha played tenor. Zane Massey. There was about five other tenor players. Some of them I didn’t even know. About twelve alto players. Some of them I didn’t know. Turned out bad. The only instrument that was light was the trombone. There was only one trombone. Our trombone player. (Tyrone Hill). He was the only trombonist who showed up. Three vibes. three conga play- ers. Turned out real nice. JH: How was that organized? JG: Sun Ra just directed them and told them when to take their shot. And it just flowed you know. Gary Bartz started off cookin’! From there on it went. Joe Ford came in next. He was blazing some pretty stuff. Strong. No direction. It just directed itself for four and one half hours and that was it. Bam! One number. It was heavy, Jack. It was so powerful that when the sections would change, like from the trumpets to the drums where you had Rashied Ali, Steve McCall . . . Don Mumford. We had six or seven drums. The sections would change, you’d see the peoples heads going (gestures) - whoosh - as the shit would change from the trumpets to the drums to the saxophones. The shit would be so powerful . . . JH: A sea of sound. JG: Yeah! That’s what it was like. It was mean. JH: That’s incredible. You never hear that. JG: It was terrible. That’s no lie. All the cats were really enthused and enjoyed it. They were highly elated. JH: That’s a once in a lifetime thing. JG: Billy Bang and all the violinists was playing terrible shit . . . PH: Leroy Jenkins? JG: No, Leroy didn’t show. There was a girl came and played and she was the third violinist. She was bad. There was one girl on bass. About six or seven dancers. JH: I hope you guys put that out on Saturn. JG: I don’t know who recorded it. They’ve been kind of lax on the recordings lately. No real professional thing going on. There should have been, but it didn’t happen. PH: I read in, I believe it was Cadence magazine, that you were recorded at the Athens Jazz Festival on Praxis and they’re planning to release it. JG: They should. It was a mean tape. I heard the cats play some of it back. It has so much feeling and was so strong and the cat, he got it good. All the presence. It really had a lot of feeling. It was a good tape. PH: I heard the people were really going wild on that. JG: They really dug it. They said it was the strongest music they ever heard in Greece. 2 JG: I guess we will check Walter (Miller) out when we’re down in that area. We’ll probably at least call to see how he is. We’ll call him when we get near Birmingham. We thought we might be playing there but I don’t think anything came through. PH: Have you done any playing with Art Blakey since 1964? JG: No, I haven’t. Not since then. JH: Didn’t Art give you a hard time? JG: No. We just had a little difference of opinion. I had to tell him off. (Laughs) We’re good friends. PH: Who else was in the group at the time? JG: Lee Morgan, Curtis Fuller, John Hicks and Victor Sproles. It was a good band. We had a good time. That was a good year. JH: You made a lot of different recordings in that year. 1964. JG: Yeah. We made quite a few. PH: Elmo Hope. How was that session? You were only on a couple tunes. JG: Elmo was working with Philly Joe at that time and I was working with Philly quite a bit at that time. I worked with him for two years on and off. Elmo was one of his piano players. That’s how I happened to get on that record date. JH: Another great session. JG: It was. Enjoyable . . . most of the ones I’ve had have been nice. PH: The one with McCoy was . . . JG: Yeah. That was a delightful one. I haven't had an unenjoyable one at all because all the cats who were participating as leaders were capable. PH: Any Saturns going to be coming out? JG: I don’t know. Since Danny has so much business in L.A. . . . Once he gets that attended to, he can get back to the regular business. It's just a matter of that he’s been busy. His mother died and that took him through all kinds of changes. Spent most of his time in L.A. He’s missed most of the gigs. We’re using Charlies Tyler. Charles Tyler, Rashied Ali . . . Tommy Turrentine. We’ve had some good bands. The band has gener- ally been much larger than this. We’ve been carrying three trumpets and the bone. Two drummers. PH: Who are the other trumpets? JG: Roy Burrowes and Martin Banks. Both of them are bad. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA NOVEMBER 1, 1988 CONTINUED FROM ISSUE FOUR SUN RA: They ain’t got nobody capable of being president. So, they’ve got to have a prime minister. A prime minister from the living God will do the trick. And they do as told and death itself will cease and that’s it. People over there in the graveyard . . . they’re going to get out. Prime Minister can do it if he really represent the real Creator whose not like no dead people. Who send his word and say, my kingdom is not of this world and I’m a god of the living and not the dead. There you are. You use the book, I use the book . . . VOICE: Say Sunny, have you heard that man from the Ku Klux Klan call Martin Luther King, Martin Lucifer Coon? SUN RA: Lucifer? VOICE: He said Martin Lucifer Coon. SUN RA: I didn’t hear that. Martin Lucifer Coon. Coon in Hebrew . . . you spell it COOOHON . . . it means priest. They got unintelligible nigger in Hebrew, means alien, foreign and stranger. Actually, black folks are niggers here. But we do have some Russian niggers here too. You know, I made about ten years ago, I made a song in New York City and I held it back. I’m talking about Russian niggers, Chinese niggers, English niggers . . . I put it aside but I’m going to look for it and put it out there. Nigger means foreigner. And America’s full of niggers. That song is saying you ain’t got nothing but niggers over here. Don’t nobody belong here. But the Indians, maybe. Everybody else is a nigger. So I break that stuff up talking niggers. Now, all they got to do is go back there in Hebrew and see (that) nigger means foreigner, alien, stranger. And black folks are strangers here. But so are the Russians. That’s why they’re going back home. The Jews are strangers in every land. That’s what the Russian leaders said. That they got more Jews over in Russia than any other country that don’t nobody else want them. France don’t want them. SRR NUMBER SIX — Published five times in 1996—Subscription: $15.00 for five issues; $3.00 single issue. Back issues: $3.00. OVERSEAS: $4.00 Single issue. Back issues: $4.00. Subscription: $20.00 for five issues. Edited by Peter Hinds© 1996. Omni Press, P.O. Box 786, Millbrae, CA 94030 Inside front cover photo of Walter Miller by Peter Hinds, 1981. Back cover photo of Sun Ra and Ra Amen by Peter Hinds, 1984. 16 Nisan 1990 Pazartesi Caz tarihinin ayk1r1 isimlerinden piyanist Sun Ra ve ﬁnlii Arkestra’s1 diin istanbul’da iki konser Verdi Kﬂrsat Basar Ad]: Sun Ra. Dogum Yeri: Lupi- ter, (icinden). Dogum‘Tarihi: Soy- lemiyor. Giirevi: Dunyayl aydmlat- mak. Meslegiz Muzisyen. 50’li ynllann sonlannda beyazla- rm da <;ald1g| ve gitgide kalnplasan cam, ihtiyam olan taze kam yinc si- yah ve gem; milzisyenler getirdi. Bunlardan biri dc free-jazz olarak amlan tarzm ilk Orneklerini veren piyanist Sun Ra’ydn. S_un Rn bugun 70 yasnmn i)stun- de, yaldaslk 35 ynldnr Arkestra adi- m verdigi topluluguyla causnyor. Toplulugun uyeleri komiln hayat: sijruyor vc sanatcxmn deyimiyle “Diinyadaki en iyi yerde. Ra Ha- pishanesi’nde" ya51yorlar_ Sun Ra her zaman gercek adxm ve Alabama'da 20’lerin sonlannda dogdugunu reddediyor; uzaydan geldigini ve milzigiyle bu kbtﬁluk dolu dunyaya mesajlar tasxdngmi soyluyor. Ucaktan kafasmda kalpagn, us- tunde panter desenli giysisiyle in- dikten sonra konusuyorum Sun Ra’yla. Hicbir soruya karsnhk ver- miyor, gercekten dc bu dilnyayla hicbir iliskisi yokmus gibi kendi séz dizimini kuruyor. Hiq tammad1g1- mz insanlardan, bir konserden 56- zederken birdenbire Eski M1s1r’a geciyor. dusuk bir sesle uzun cum- leler kuruyor, elinde egri bugru. Afrikah buyﬁculcrinkine benzcr asasx... Sonra bir kamyona binip cala- rak Beyog|u’ndan geciyorlar, ka- labahk bu ilginc toplulugu izliyor, I-‘fayrettin Saganak ' ~_ -. L .._..__..__ ‘ __.._- évLEriKiEK IZNE BAGLl- Sun Ra, rkestra'|p1b-1‘n iiyelerini bazen sabahﬁm 3’iinde yataklanndan kaldmyor, yasamlanm sulu bir disiplin altmda tutuyor, evlenmeleri bile onun iznine bagh. kimileri onun hangi Afrika ulkesi- nin krah oldugunu soruyor. “Ba- ba bir Lambada cal da oynaya- l|m"diyenler, Yahu bu herif Cingene" diycnlcr, ya da bir bi¢im- de tahunda ocvresini selamlayan bu ‘biiyiik sef”i, bu ilginc; ‘ziyarct¢;i'- yi hayranhkla izleyenler... Caz tarihinin bu muhtcsem big- band’i ynllardxr birarada <;al1sma- nm gctirdigi uyum icindeler. Her konserleri bir solene ddniisﬂyor. Danslar, haykmslar. tamtamlar, cnlgm giysiler izleycnleri yerlerin- den flrlauyor. Elektronik tuslu cal- gnlann ustadn Sun Ra konustugu gi- bi daldan dala atlayarak calmxyor ama Arkestn'nm ilyelcri caz tari- hinde dev adnmlarla yapnlan bu ge- zintiye ahsxklar. Sun Ra, “Kilns: bir gecede bii- J1'ipiter’den gelen bir Caz tanr1s1 tun bir caz tarihini dinleyemez, biz izleyiciye bunu veriyoruz" diyor. Cogu kimse uzaydan geldigini soylcyen bu yash adama guluyor, ama kendi deyisiyle “k6tii|iik|e, ncfretlc ve zuliimlc do|u" 'ou dun- " yaya yakxsmadngx halinden belli. SIDDETE KARSI SEVGL Tahuna kurulmus bir kral gibi. Sun Ra, “Insan- lnr diinyadald iyi scyleri rcddediyorlu. Siddete karsl olan ve sevgiden s62 eden ,’ $1.‘: ' : nwa. - - -~b. insanlar yetistirmek col: giig. Yetigtigi zaman da diinya onu yok ediyor, Mar- un Luther King gibi” diyor, 0 Sun Rain De Oosterpoart in Graningen. Zondag staat hij in he! Stadspark. (Faro: Sem van Geider) 0£0V6 V3 '3V!lﬂ'l'llN 98L X08 '0'd namsau Vi! N118
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-06
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 08 (September, 1996)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996-09-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: _l H G H E U S 5 SEPTEMBER. 1996 CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS,AND PETER HINDS. OAKLAND,CA...MAY 3,1990... CHRIS CAPERS:THE OTHER THING THAT I'M REALLY,THE TWO THINGS THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT,AND JOTHAN (CALLINS) SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO BUT JOTHAN DIDN'T GET AROUND TO DOING IT,IS REALLY WRITE THE BOOK ON SONNY.THAT'S THE OTHER THING BECAUSE,YOU KNOW, FROM EVERY ONE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND HIM AND THROUGH THE BAND THAT'S AN ENOURMOUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND PERSPECTIVE THAT WE HAVE TOWARD HIM.A LOT OF PERSONAL STUFF BUT AT THE SAME TIME... SUN RA:UNINTELLIGIBLE IN THE OFFICE...AND JOTHAN COULDN'T FIND IT.A LOT OF POEMS AND THINGS THAT WERE VERY IMPORTANT.THEY LOOKED EVERYWHERE.THEY COULDN'T FIND IT. CC:YOU'RE SAYING JOTHAN STARTED IT? SR:NO.HE WAS LOOKING FOR IT FOR ME. CC:WAIT A MINUTE.WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN?'CAUSE I WAS TALKING ABOUT A BOOK BEING WRITTEN ABOUT... SR:IT'S ALREADY WRITTEN.I KEPT A DIARY,YOU ...
Show more_l H G H E U S 5 SEPTEMBER. 1996 CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS,AND PETER HINDS. OAKLAND,CA...MAY 3,1990... CHRIS CAPERS:THE OTHER THING THAT I'M REALLY,THE TWO THINGS THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT,AND JOTHAN (CALLINS) SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO BUT JOTHAN DIDN'T GET AROUND TO DOING IT,IS REALLY WRITE THE BOOK ON SONNY.THAT'S THE OTHER THING BECAUSE,YOU KNOW, FROM EVERY ONE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND HIM AND THROUGH THE BAND THAT'S AN ENOURMOUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND PERSPECTIVE THAT WE HAVE TOWARD HIM.A LOT OF PERSONAL STUFF BUT AT THE SAME TIME... SUN RA:UNINTELLIGIBLE IN THE OFFICE...AND JOTHAN COULDN'T FIND IT.A LOT OF POEMS AND THINGS THAT WERE VERY IMPORTANT.THEY LOOKED EVERYWHERE.THEY COULDN'T FIND IT. CC:YOU'RE SAYING JOTHAN STARTED IT? SR:NO.HE WAS LOOKING FOR IT FOR ME. CC:WAIT A MINUTE.WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN?'CAUSE I WAS TALKING ABOUT A BOOK BEING WRITTEN ABOUT... SR:IT'S ALREADY WRITTEN.I KEPT A DIARY,YOU KNOW.THEY CAN'T FIND IT. CC:OH!YOU HAD A DIARY DONE ALREADY.YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?SOMEBODY STOLE IT AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO COME OUT.SEE, THE OTHER THING IS TO HAVE THAT MUSIC THAT HE HAS PUBLISHED AND SOLD.SO THAT WAY A LOT OF PEOPLE...IT CAN BE PLAYED FROM...EVERY- ONE FROM KIDS TO SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA. SR:CAN'T BE DOING IT.I DELIBERATELY DESTROYED IT SO IT WOULDN'T EVER BE DONE.WHOEVER MISSED THAT I DID IT DELIBERATELY.'CAUSE THEY DIDN'T TREAT ME RIGHT SO THEY CAN'T.THEY'LL NEVER HAVE IT. IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY THAT'S GONE SINCE THEY WOULDN'T PAY ME.SO I DID A CURSE.I DESTROYED IT.SO I WOULDN'T HAVE IT. CC:YOU DON'T WANT THE MUSIC PUBLISHED? SR:NO!I DON'T WANT IT OUT THERE.I DON'T WANT NOBODY TO HEAR IT. THAT'S 'CAUSE IT'S SPIRIT MUSIC.IT EVEN DEALS IN IMMORTALITY. I DON'T FEEL FOLKS HAVE A RIGHT TO THAT.THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE FOREVER SO THEY DON'T NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT I KNOW.THEY DON'T NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT.'CAUSE THEY DON'T DESERVE IT...I'M NOT INTERESTED IN HUMANITY NO MORE.IF I HAD MY WAY I UNINTELLIGIBLE AND BLOW IT UP.I'D BLOW UP...PUSH THE BUTTON.GET RID OF THE WHOLE PLANET 'CAUSE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED IT'S A WASTE OF TIME.I'VE SEEN THEM KILL TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE WORTH- WHILE. CC:I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING SONNY AND PARTIALLY I AGREE WITH YOU.BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THIS IS GOING TO BE HERE.AND WHAT YOU GOT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IT'S GOING TO HELP. SR:I DON'T WANT TO HELP THIS PLANET.I WANT TO FORGET I EVER KNEW ABOUT IT. CC:THAT'S SOMETHING JUNE(TYSON)AND I SPOKE ABOUT.JUNE SAYS SHE'S READY TO LEAVE AND I SAID I'M.READY TO LEAVE,TOO. SR:DID YOU SEE THAT PICTURE?THAT'S A PICTURE THEY HAVE NOT SEEN. JOHN HINDS:I HOPE YOU GET OUT ALIVE. SR:YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THAT PICTURE,HAVE YOU. CC:WHAT'S THAT?WHICH ONE? SR:IN THE PICTURE I WALKED TOWARD THE SEASHORE AND YOU SAW MY FOOT PRINTS AND THEN THE WAVES CAME AND BRUSHED THE FOOT PRINTS OUT.I MADE IT IN NEW YORK.A SEMI—DOCUMENTARY. PH:IS THIS A VIDEO?OR PHOTOGRAPHS? SR:IT WAS A MOVIE. CC:I THINK I REMEMBER IT VAGUELY.IT'S COMING BACK TO ME. SR:AND I WALKED TOWARD THE SEASHORE.YOU SAW THE FOOT PRINTS AND THEN THE WAVES CAME AND BRUSHED OUT THE FOOT PRINTS SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. CC:YOU DID IT IN THE 70's? BACK THERE SOME TIME.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF THE MOVIE. THERE'S ANOTHER THING THEY CAN'T TRACE UP.AND ALSO THERE'S A RADIO PLAY,TOO.I WROTE THE MUSIC TO THAT.A PLAY CALLED A STRANGER. PH:WHEN WAS THAT? SR:ABOUT '69 OR SOMETHINB LIKE THAT.A RADIO PRODUCTION CALLED THE STRANGER. PH:IS THAT THE STRANGER BY ALBERT CAMUS? SR:IT WASN'T NO PRAGRAM.IT WAS A SPECIAL GOVRNMENT SPONSORED MOVIE.NEW YORK CITY.STATE OF NEW YORK.THAT'S LOST,TOO.THERE'S A LOT OF GAPS IN THERE.SO I COULDN'T EVEN BEGIN TO TELL THE THINGS THAT(ARE)MISSING. ' JH:DIDN'T YOU WRITE SOME THINGS FOR BASIE IN THE 40'S? SOMETHING FOR A FLOOR SHOW OR SOMETHING. SR:NO.FLETCHER... JH:I KNOW.THE DELISA. BUT I THOUGHT I HEARD AT ONE POINT THAT YOU DID SOMETHING WITH BASIE ON SOME PROGRAM THAT HE WAS ON. SR:I WROTE SOME THINGS WITH CLARENCE WILLIAMS Anp HE WAY BACK THERE.BUT HE STOLE IT,THOUGH. JH:NOW,YOU'VE GOT TO WONDER WHERE THAT STUFF IS;TOO. SR:MY FIRST COMPOSITION WAS SENT TO HIM AND HE STOLE THEM. CC:WHO'S THAT?CLARENCE WILLIAMS? SR:ONE OF THEM WAS NAMED CHOCOLATE AVENUE.BUT THEY DON'T PAY THE ¥g§$C NOW.SO YOU'D HAVE TO REALLY HAVE TO RESEARCH IT TO FIND JH:YOU'RE NOT KIDDING.I HAVE ONE OF HIS ALBUMS. .SR:THEN I'VE GOT SEVERAL PSEUDONYMS,TOO.SO THEY REALLY CAN'T TRACE.I GOT A LOT OF SONGS OUT THERE WITH OTHER NAMES.SEVERAL NAMES. JH:CAN YOU REMEMBER THOSE NAMES? CC:HE AIN'T GOING TO TELL US TODAY. SR:I DELIBERATELY HID IT.SO THEY WOULDN'T KNOW.'CAUSE I KNEW NO ONE WAS GOING TO TREAT ME RIGHT ON THIS PLANET.SO I TOOK EVERY- THING AND JUST HID IT.THEY DID EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT THEY WAS GOING TO DO.SO I WAS TRYING TO PLAY THE LOW PROFILE AND MY BEST MUSIC HAS NEVER BEEN PUT ON A RECORD.IT'S NOT ON A RECORD.THAT'S WHAT MICHAEL ANDERSON WAS TRYING TO DO 'CAUSE HE KNOW THAT.HE'S TRYING TO PUT IT TOGETHER. CC:MICHAEL WHO? SR:MICHAEL ANDERSON.HE GOT A RADIO SHOW IN NEW JERSEY.HE THE ONLY ONE TO PLAY MY MUSIC CONSISTENTLY. CC:WHAT PART OF NEW JERSEY? SR:SOMEWHERE IN NEW JERSEY.HE HAS A SPECIAL JAZZ SHOW.HE PLAYED WITH THE BAND,TOO,AT ONE TIME.PLAYED DRUMS. CC:THAT'S WHEN RODNEY WAS IN THERE?RONALD WAS IN THERE? SR:I DON"T EVEN REMEMBER.I KNOW HE PLAYED WITH US.JOHN(GILMORE) KNOWS THOSE THINGS. JH:THAT WOULD BE QUITE A LIST TO DRAW UP ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WHO HAVE PLAYED WITH YOU. CC:IT'S ENOURMOUS.' JH:ALMOST NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ALL THESE PEOPLE 'CAUSE I KEEP HEARING ABOUT... CC:ROLAND KIRK WAS IN THE BAND.PHAROAH SANDERS WAS IN THE BAND. JH:I KNOW THAT.BUT ROLAND KIRK?I NEVER HEARD OF THAT. SR:HE NEVER WAS IN THIS BAND. CC:ROLAND WASN'T IN THIS BAND? SR:NO. CC:IN CHICAGO?HE WASN'T IN THE... SR:DIFFERENT DIMENSION.HE WASN'T IN THIS BAND. JH:NEVER PLAYED WITH YOU. SR:NO. CC:I THOUGHT I HEARD THAT IN THE SIXTIES WHEN YOU WAS ON THIRD STREET... SR:N0.0NE TIME HE DELIBERATELY JUMPED UP THERE TO STOP US.TO PLAY AND JAM WITH US.THAT WAS IN NEW YORK CITY.HE WANTED TO STOP US 'CAUSE,YOU KNOW,THE CROWD WAS LIKING US SO HE JUMPED UP THERE,GOT ON THE MICROPHONE AND JUST TOOK...IN TO THE SHOW. CC:I HEARD YOU ALL TALKING ABOUT IT. SR:BUT HE DIDN'T GET UP THERE FOR UNINTELLIGIBLE.HE JUST JUMPED UP THERE 'CAUSE HE WAS...AT THE VANGUARD,I THINK...SOMEPLACE. CC:'CAUSE I REMEMBER THAT FROM THE SIXTIES.ROLAND KIRK SAYING HE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE BAND.I THOUGHT HE WAS IN THE BAND. HE WASN'T IN CHICAGO WITH YOU? SR:DIFFERENT DIMENSION.HE WAS AN EARTHMAN.I DON'T HAVE NO EARTHMEN IN MY BAND.EVERYBODY IN MY BAND WAS CAREFULLY CHOSEN FOR THE SPIRIT CONTENT OF THE FUTURE.HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY...HE EVEN TRIED TO STEAL MY NAME UNINTELLIGIBLE.CALLED HIMSELF RAHSHAAN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.AND COLTRANE CAME ALONG AND HE TRIED TO STEAL IT,TOO.BUT THIS IS SPIRIT MUSIC.IT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR THEM TO DO THAT.IT'S QUITE DANGEROUS.OPEN THEIR MINDS UP TO AVENUES OF DANGER WHERE THEY CAN'T CONTROL IT. CC:THAT'S FOR CERTAIN!(LAUGHS) JH:UNFORTUNATELY,THEY'RE BOTH GONE AND THAT SAYS SOMETHING I GUESS. ‘ CC:AND SONNY STILL BE A KICKIN',RIGHT? SR;I'M STILL TRYING TO PLAY MY LOW PROFILE.IT'S THE ONLY FUTURE THAT I WANT.BECAUSE ALL THESE TAPES THAT THE WORLD SHOULD HEAR THAY WILL NEVER HEAR THEM.IN THE FIRST PLACE,ABRAHAM (ALTON ABRAHAM)GOT A LOT OF THEM LOCKED UP IN A VAULT. HE WON'T EVEN GIVE THEM TO ME.HE SAY I DON'T NEED THEM...DON'T DESERVE TO HEAR THEM.AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT BANK THEY IN. JH:AT LEAST THEY'RE SAFE,I GUESS.YOU WOULD WANT TO HEAR THEM YOURSELF. SR:I DON'T THINK THAT WAY NO MORE.THE WORLD AIN'T LIKE WHAT I'D LIKE FOR IT TO BE.IT AIN'T WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS.IF I HAD KNOWN WHAT IT WAS I NEVER WOULD HAVE PLAYED.PERSONALLY,I THINK THAT JESUS DECIDED HE WOULD RATHER BE DEAD THAN HAVE CONTROL OF THIS PLANET.I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE DID.WHEN HE SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING..THE WHOLE WORLD...THEM PEOPLE WAS READY TO PUT PALMS IN HIS PATH AND EVERYTHING TO MAKE HIM KING.HE PREFERRED TO GO TO THE CROSS 'CAUSE HE FELT IT WASN'T WORTHWHILE TO DO NOTHIN' LIKE THAT.I THINK THEY GOT THE WHOLE THING WRONG.HE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED SUICIDE.HE FIGURED IT WAS BETTER TO BE DEAD THAN TO HAVE CONTROL OF PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WASN'T RIGHT.THEN THEY TURN IT AROUND LIKE HE DIED TO SAVE SINNERS.BUT UNINTELLIGIBLE HE DIED TO GET AWAY FROM THEM.ANYWAY,IT'S THEIR WORLD.AIN'T NONE OF GOD'S WORLD.AIN'T NONE OF SATAN'S WORLD.NEITHER WANT IT. CC:THAT'S WHAT I SAID THE OTHER...I WAS SAYING THE OTHER DAY.I SAID EVEN SATAN WENT UP TO HEAVEN AND GOD WENT DOWN TO HELL AND THEY LEFT THIS SUCKER. SR:I CAN'T FIND A COPY OF THAT PAPER Y'ALL GAVE ME ABOUT THE BLACK BONES. PH:I'LL BRING ONE TOMORROW.I'VE GOT A FEW AT HOME. CC:WHAT WAS THAT? PH:IT WAS AN ARTICLE I SAW IN THE PAPER TWO OR THREE DAYS AGO AND,APPARENTLY,BLACK MEN ARE BEST SUITED FOR LONG SPACE TRAVEL. FOR INSTANCE,GOING TO MARS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. CC:I FIGURE THIS.DON'T TAKE IT OFFENSIVELY BUT THEY PROBOBLY SET- TING US UP TO DO THE DIRTY WORK. JH:YOU GOTTA BE WARY ABOUT THAT. CC:THE OTHER THING,AS HE SAID,WE ALL SPACE PEOPLE. PH:THEY'RE DOING SOME TESTS DOWN THERE IN HOUSTON WHERE THEY'RE GIVING WHITE MEN...IT SAID WOMEN,DUE TO BONE STRUCTURE,AREN'T GOOD FOR LONG... CC:I KNOW THEY WERE SAYING YOUNG BLACK MEN.I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT IN THE CAR WHEN YOU(SUN RA)WAS SLEEPING.WHEN WE WAS GOING FROM PORTLAND FROM SEATTLE.I WAS TALKING WITH ELSON(NASCIAMENTO), TELLING ELSON,FRED AND CURTIS(ROCK)ABOUT IT. PH:SO NOW THEY'RE ALL WORRIED.THEY'RE TRYING TO GET A DRUG SO THEY CAN SEND SOME WHITE PEOPLE TO MARS.(CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS BREAK IN TO LAUGHTER.) CONVERSATION WITH CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS........ OAKLAND,CA...MAY 3,1990... CHRIS CAPERS:I THINK I TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE.I DIDN'T COME UP PLAYING AVANTE—GARDE.I WENT THROUGH THE REGULAR TRADITIONAL THINGS.DIZ WAS REALLY MY MAIN INFLUENCE AND BROWNIE WAS SECON- DARY.SO I LISTENED TO A LOT OF THEIR SOLOS.AFTER I LEFT SONNY, YOU GET STIGMATIZED IN WORKING THE AVANTE—GARDE.I BECAME PRONE TO WORKING WITH A LOT OF THEM. JOHN HINDS:WHO ELSE HAVE YOU WORKED WITH?ARCHIE SHEPP? CC:NO.I MISSED SEVERAL GIGS.ARCHIE WANTED ME IN HIS BAND.I'M GOING BACK TO THE SIXTIES,NOW.HE WANTED ME IN THE BAND BUT WE NEVER REALLY HOOKED UP.I ALWAYS,SOMEHOW,MISSED A REHEARSAL OR HE MISSED A DATE TO GET ME TO DO A REHEARSAL WHEN HE WAS JUST COMING OUT.SO THE GUYS THAT I EVENTUALLY ENDED UP WORKING WITH, AFTER I LEFT SONNY,WAS MAINLY PHAROAH SANDERS,DEWWY REDMAN, SONNY RED,RASHIED ALI...I HAVE QUITE A FEW RECORDINGS WITH RASHIED ALI THAT DIDN'T COME OUT.WITH SONNY MURRAY AND PHAROAH... THERE ARE THINGS ON COLUMBIA AND IMPULSE THAT THEY DIDN'T RELEASE.IT WAS A JOHN HAMOND PRODUCTION.AND EVEN ON TOP OF THAT JOHN HAMOND WANTED TO BRING ME IN THERE TO RECORD.BUT IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.ON THAT THING WITH COLUMBIA...A LOT OF GUYS WAS ON THERE.DEWEY WAS ON THERE...DON PULLEN,JUNIE BOOTH...THE OTHER MAJOR DATE WAS WITH PHAROAH.I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON HIS SECOND RECORD DATE AND I MISSED THAT BECAUSE I THEN BECAME INVOLVED WITH THE UNINTELLIGIBLE YOUTH BAND.AND I WAS REALLY TOO OLD FOR THE BAND BUT I LOOKED YOUNG AS YOU CAN SEE.THEY WERE TAKING THE GUYS IN ABOUT EIGHTEEN OR NINETTEN.SO I WAS TWENTY SIX WHEN I WENT IN THERE.THEY WERE ONLY DEALING WITH YOUNG GUYS.'CAUSE REED TAYLOR LIKED ME AND I GOT INTO THE BAND 'CAUSE I COULD SOLO BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THERE.BUT I WENT IN THERE FOR SECTION WORK,READING.BECAUSE I HAD NO SECTION WORK PLAYING FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME.SO THAT'S WHY I WENT IN THERE AND IT WAS A STIPEND.SO I GOT THE STIPEND AND I MISSED THE REHEARSAL WITH PHAROAH AND HE WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT IT.HE WAS ACTUALLY MAD.I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE FOR THESE REHEARSALS AND MAKE THE DATE WITH HIM AND I REALLY WANTED TO MAKE THE DATE WITH HIM 'CAUSE HE WAS GETTING POPULAR THEN.SO THAT BLEW (IT) FOR ME.THAT WENT DOWN THE TUBES FOR ME.AND THEN LATER ON,ABOUT THE 70'S,EARLY 70'S,HE CALLED ME IN TO DO A DATE AND THE GRUBB BROTHERS WAS ON THERE.CECIL MCBEE WAS ON THE DATE.WHO WAS THE OTHER ALTO PLAYER? PETER HINDS:BYARD LANCASTER? CC:NO,BYARD WASN'T ON IT.I WORKED IN A BAND WITH BYARD LANCASTER...THAT WAS TED DANIEL'S BAND ENERGY.I WENT INTO THAT BAND AFTER I LEFT SONNY IN 76.1 WORKED IN THAT BAND FOR JUST MONDAY NIGHTS.ONE OF MY MAIN PROBLEMS WAS THAT I WAS BURNED OUT. JH:TRAVELLING? CC:NO.I WAS BURNED OUT WHEN I WENT WITH HIM(SUN RA).I CAN GET TO THAT.THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.WHAT HAPPENED WAS WHEN ON PHAROAH'S DATE WITH IMPULSE... A PH:SECOND ALBUM? CC:NO.HOWEVER,THE THREE OF US ENDED UP DOING JUST A TRACK TOGETHER.SO IT WAS PHAROAH,WOODY(SHAW),AND MYSELF.WE WERE ALL PLAYING TOGETHER.PHAROAH TOLD ME.HE SAID IT WASN'T COMPLETED OR SOMETHING.I HAVE NO IDEA.SO THE ONLY THINGS I RECORDED CAME OUT WITH SONNY. PH:WHERE DID YOU FIRST HEAR OF SUN RA? CC:PHAROAH...SEE I WAS LIVING AT TRANE'S(JOHN COLTRANE).I KNEW TRANE.AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS... PH;WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? CC:I MET JOHN AT COPA CITY.FIRST TIME I SAW HIM I WAS ABOUT SEVENTEEN,EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.THREE FRIENDS OF US...WE WENT DOWNTOWN TO HEAR SOME JAZZ.THIS IS ABOUT 57,58.57 I THINK.I'M ORIGINALLY A REED PLAYER.I STARTED ON CLARINET,FLUTE AND ALTO AND AT THAT TIME I WAS STILL PLAYING CLARINET WHEN I FIRST SAW JOHN.BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS...I WENT OVER TO THE CIRCLE IN THE END(?)TO HEAR GERRY MULLIGAN AND TWO OF MY FRIENDS WENT TO HEAR MILES AND THEN AFTER GERRY MULLIGAN I FLEW OVER TO THE VANGUARD AND I CAME IN JUST ON THE TAIL END OF THE LAST SET ON THE LAST NUMBER AND THAT'S WHEN I FIRST SAW TRANE.THEN I MET HIM AT COPA CITY ABOUT TWO YEARS LATER,I THINK.I WAS ALREADY INTO PLAYING TRUMPET THEN.WHAT I ENDED UP DOING WAS I ALWAYS WANTED TO PLAY TRUMPET 'CAUSE I WAS INFLUENCED BY LOUIS ARMSTRONG.AND I COULDN'T GET A HOLD OF AN INSTRUMENT SO WHAT I DID...I OPTED FOR WHAT I COULD GET MY HANDS ON.MY MOTHER BOUGHT ME THE CLARINET.AND I WAS MAKING SESSIONS ON THE ALTO SAX.I WAS PROFICIENT IN THE INSTRUMENT TO GET AROUND IT BUT I STILL NEEDED TO KNOW EACH AND EVERY SCALE BECAUSE THE CLARINET GAVE ME THE PROFICIENCY.THEN I HAD TO GET INTO MY CHANGES.SO I WAS MAKING A FEW SESSIONS ON ALTO BUT WHO I WAS HANGING OUT WITH KEPT PUSHING ME AND PUSHING ME SO I WENT IN MIDSTREAM...AND WENT TO TRUMPET WHEN I WAS EIGHTEEN, NINETEEN TEARS OLD WHICH WAS LATE.SO I LOOKED AT THIS AND I SAID, 'DAMN,I'M NOT GROING TO BE OUT HERE PLAYING 'TILL I'M ABOUT TWENTY SEVEN OR SO.SO WHAT I DID WAS PRACTICE LIKE A MANIAC.I PRACTICED LIKE A DAMN FOOL.I WAS LIVING AT TRANE'S.I COULD PRACTICE ANY TIME I WANT. JH:WHERE WAS HE LIVING? CC:HE WAS LIVING IN QUEENS ON MEXICO STREET.I LIVED ON QUEENS OVER IN SPRINGFIELD GARDENS AND HE LIVED OVER IN ST.ALBANS.NOT THAT FAR APART.AND I MET HIM BY WORKING IN BLOOMINGDALE'S PART TIME AND HIS WIFE'S NEICE,BETTY,WORKED IN BLOOMINGDALE'S.AND GETTING TO KNOW HER...I WOULD GO BY HER HOUSE AND THEN ONE DAY NAIMA SHOWED UP.I DIDN'T KNOW SHE WAS TRANE'S WIFE AND SHE SAID COME ON TO THE HOUSE.WHEN HE CAME OFF THE ROAD I MET HIM OFFICIALLY 'CAUSE I HAD SPOKEN TO HIM AT COPA CITY BRIEFLY. BUT NOW I MET HIM OFFICIALLY,IN HIS HOUSE WITH ERIC DOLPHY. I'M YOUNG,TWENTY,TWENTY ONE AND IF I WAS PLAYING ERIC AND MARSHALL(ALLEN)WOULD HAVE BEEN MY INFLUENCES. PH.THIS WAS 61? CC:YEAH.50,61. JH:DID YOU KNOW ERIC DOLPHY VERY WELL? CC:AFTER MEETING HIM AT TRANE'S I GOT TO KNOW HIM WELL.I USED TO HANG OUT WITH HIM.A COUPLE TIMES HE USED TO TAKE ME AROUND. CLIFFORD JORDAN'S HOUSE...SO WE(JOHN COLTRANE)EVENTUALLY GOT CLOSE.SO WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER I SHOULD CHAUFFEUR THE BAND OR STAY AT THE HOUSE WITH NEET(?)AND TONY. THAT WAS NEET'S DAUGHTER.NOT HIS DAUGHTER.NEET-DIDN'T HAVE NO KIDS WITH HIM.THAT'S HOW ALICE GOT INTO THE PICTURE.THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THE BOOK THAT WAS OUT OF IT BE- CAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT CAME THERE TO THE HOUSE AND WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK AND NEET TOLD THEM TO SPEAK TO ME AND AIN'T A DAMN ONE OF THEM SAID A WORD TO ME.IT CAME ALL DOWN TO...HE'S INSIGNIFICANT.I'M NOT A BIG NAME.I'M A STRUGGLING TRUMPET PLAYER. THEY JUST PASSED ME BY AND STILL HELD CONVERSATIONS WITH HER. AND SHE TOLD THEM SPECIFICALLY;'YOU-WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JOHN? TALK TO HIM.'YOU SEE,THE THING IS,SHE TOLD ME A LOT OF PERSONAL THINGS.AND I SPENT TIME WITH HIM TALKING AND A GREAT DEAL MORE TIME WITH HER(TALKING)ABOUT HIM AND A WHOLE LOT OF STORIES IN THE BUSINESS.SO THEY BLEW(IT).STORIES ABOUT MILES AND JOHN LEAVING THE BAND.HOWEVER,I WAS ABLE TO PRACTICE ANY TIME I WANTED TO PRACTICE.FIRST IT WAS A LITTLE FUNNY.HE DECIDED THAT I WOULD STAY THERE AT THE HOUSE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MAN AROUND. THERE WAS NO MALE PERSON AROUND WHEN HE WAS OUT OF TOWN AND HE WAS OUT OF TOWN FOR TWO,THREE MONTHS.HE WAS ON THE ROAD.BOOKED. FOUR HOURS.EIGHT HOURS.SIX HOURS. I WAS DOING IT(PRACTICING). 'CAUSE I WAS TRYING TO PLAY CATCH UP.AND WHEN HE CAME HOME I WOULDN'T PRACTICE.I WAS SCARED THE FIRST TIME.SO NEET CALLED ME IN THE KITCHEN AND SAID,'LOOK.YOU EITHER GOING TO PLAY THAT HORN OR GET OUT OF HERE.'AND I SAID,'JOHN IS HERE.'SHE SAID,'THAT AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.'IN A SENSE SHE WAS SAYING TO ME HE KNOWS WHERE YOU'RE AT.SO JUST GO ON AND PRACTICE AND, BASICALLY,I WOULD PRACTICE WHEN HE WAS THERE.I WOULD JUST GO INTO THE BASEMENT,MAYBE,AND PUT THE MUTE IN THE HORN AND PRACTICE BECAUSE,I KNOW YOU'RE TAPING THIS,RIGHT? JH:OH YEAH.SURE. CC:WHEN HE CAME HOME HE WENT STRAIGHT UPSTAIRS AND PRACTICED ALL DAY LONG.SEE,HE HAD SOMETHING...HIM AND SONNY HAD SOMETHING SIMILAR.WHERE SONNY WOULD REHEARSE YOU FROM EIGHT IN THE MORNING UNTILL TWELVE AT MIDNIGHT JOHN WOULD PRACTICE FROM EIGHT OR NINE IN THE MORNING UNTILL IT WAS TIME FOR HIM TO GO TO THE GIG AND I'M NOT LYING!I SAW IT AND HEARD IT.I HEARD HIM PRACTICE THINGS THAT LEFT ME BAFFLED FOR A WHILE UNTILL I USED TO SIT OUT THERE IN THE BACK STEPS OF THE GARDEN AND HE WOULD BE IN THE BACK BED- ROOM PRACTICING AND I WOULD JUST SIT AND I WOULD JUST SIT AND LISTEN TO HIM.I'D SAY,'WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING?"CAUSE HE WOULD STAY UP THERE AND...(SINGS)HE WOULD DO(SINGS)FOR A WHOLE HALF HOUR,HE WAS DOING TWO THINGS.HE WAS EXERCISING FINGERS.HE WAS EXERCISING PITCH AND TONE AND RUNNING A LINE AND THINKINK ABOUT WHAT OTHER LINES WOULD RUN INTO THAT.HOW I FOUND OUT...EVERY TIME HE WOULD COME IN TO TOWN I WOULD GO TO THE FIRST GIG WITH HIM AND THE LAST ONE AND I WOULD HEAR THE SAME LINES CONNECTING UP.SO WHEN GUYS LIKE...I HEAR OTHER GUYS SAY THEY DON'T PLAY THE SAME THING OVER AGAIN.AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A VARIATION ON THAT THING WHETHER IT'S A TWO BAR REPEAT OR A ONE BAR PHRASE YOU RUN.YOU'RE GOING TO REPEAT IT SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE LINE.AND IT'S DONE.I'VE HEARD HIM DO IT FROM PRACTICING.GOING UP ON THE BAND- STAND AND DOING IT.'CAUSE I WAS THERE AT THE HOUSE WHERE I COULD LISTEN.AND I WAS THE ONLY ONE AT THE HOUSE THERE.HOW I MET SONNY IS...JOHN BROUGHT PHAROAH BACK FROM CALIFORNIA.I CAME UP ‘CAUSE I WOULD EITHER SLEEP IN THE BASEMENT...BASICALLY,THAT'S WHERE I SLEPT.IN THE BASEMENT...WHEN THEY SEPERATED.WHEN HE FINALLY LEFT NEET,I TOOK THE SMALL ROOM UPSTAIRS.BUT I SLEPT IN THE BASEMENT AND WHEN I CAME UP OUT OF THE BASEMENT I SEE THIS GUY LAYING ON THE COUCH.I SAID,'OH,HELL!WHO THE HELL IS JOHN BRINGING HERE?' BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD COME AROUND AND HANG AROUND AND HE WAS A NICE GUY LIKE THAT.THEY WOULD COME AND HANG AROUND AND SO I SAID,'WELL,I GUESS I GOT TO DEAL WITH THIS.'AND IT WAS PHAROAH! PHAROAH SANDERS!SO I DON'T NEED TO GO ANY FURTHER FROM THERE. WE GOT TO MEET AND TALK AND TOLD HIM WHERE I WAS AND HE WAS AND HE WAS BASICALLY,I FELT,AHEAD OF ME ON HIS HORN THAN I WAS ON MINE.BUT I WAS ON HIS ASS COMING UP BECAUSE I WAS PRACTICING EVERY DAY DOING IT...AND THE AVANTE-GARDE THING WAS BEGINNING TO COME MORE INTO PROMINENCE.IT WAS JUST BEGINNING TO DEVELOP'CAUSE I REMEMBER I SAT IN WITH HANK MOBLEY AT SLUGS'ONE TIME AND I CAME OUT OF THE TUNE,WE WERE DOING A BLUES,I CAME OUT OF IT LIKE A BAR EARLY AND I GOT VERY UPTIGHT.A MATTER OF FACT,JUNIE BOOTH AND THE DRUMMER WAS JACK DEJOHNETTE.I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WAS SITTING IN OR WORKING.I THINK THEY WAS SITTING IN.I CAME OUT OF THAT AND HANK CAME OVER TO ME,AND HE LIKED MY PLAYING,WHICH MEANS I HAD TO BE PLAYING IN.I WASN'T PLAYING OUT.I WAS PLAYING WITH HANK MOBLEY!SO HE SAID,'MAN,YOU SOUND GOOD.'BUT,HOWEVER,THE OTHER THING WAS COMING AND BEING PREVALENT SO PHAROAH HAD EVIDENTALLY HOOKED UP WITH SONNY BEFORE I DID.KNEW HIM BEFORE I DID.AND THIS IS ABOUT A YEAR LATER,I THINK,AND HE SAID IF YOU WANT TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ME CALL THIS NUMBER.SUN RA'S NUMBER.AND I SAID OK. ALLRIGHT.SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH MY MIND IN THE SENSE OF INTUITION BUT I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AND GOING DOWN TO THE VILLAGE TO HEAR MUSIC I HAD WALKED PAST A CLUB.I WAS STILL IN HIGH AT THIS TIME AND I SAW HIS NAME WITH THE BAND AD- VERTISED OUTSIDE AND JUST SOMETHING SAID TO ME,'YOU GOING TO BE PLAYING WITH THIS MAN.'AND I JUST KEPT ON WALKING.NOW,I WAS ABOUT SIXTEEN,SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN.SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THERE.WHEN PHAROAH GAVE ME THE NUMBER...I FELT THAT WHEN I CALLED THIS NUMBER I WAS GOING TO GET A GIG.AND I CALLED THE NUMBER LOOKING FOR PHAROAH AND PHAROAH WASN'T THERE.AND I SPOKE TO SONNY.AND THIS WAS 64.SONNY SAID,'WHO ARE YOU AND BLAH,BLAH,BDAH.'AND HE SAID,'WHAT DO YOU PLAY?'AND I SAID TRUMPET AND HE SAID COME ON DOWN AND THAT'S WHERE I MET (SUN RA).THIRD STREET. SRR NUMBER EIGHT-PUBLISHED FIVE TIMES IN 1996—SUBSRIPTION:$15.00 FOR FIVE ISSUES;$3.00 SINGLE ISSUE.BACK ISSUES:$3.00.0VERSEAS: $4.00 SINGLE ISSUE.BACK ISSUES:$4.00.SUBSCRIPTION:$20.00 FOR FIVE ISSUES.EDITED BY PETER HINDS.COPYRIGHT 1996.0MNI PRESS.P.O. BOX 786,MILLBRAE,CA.94030. .2z27¢///// 015076 V9 '3Vllﬂ'l'IlH 98L X08 '0'd HQIIVHSIHI VII MS
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-08
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 11 (March, 1997)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1997-03-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: ISSUE ELEVEN MARCH 1997 SUN RA INTERVIEW WITH KPOO RADIO(SAN FRANCISCO)BETWEEN SETS AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS IN SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA.SEPT.27,1986. KPOO:WE'RE HERE WITH THE GREAT SUN RA IN SAN FRANCISCO AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS.SUN RA,THAT WAS A GREAT SHOW AS USUAL.WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THE SINCE LAST TIME YOU VISITED THE BAY AREA? SUN RA:I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE LOW PROFILE.BUT SINCE THE WORLD IN SUCH A BAD CONDITION AND I NEVER HAVE PRESENTED WHAT I REALLY REPRESENT,BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT,BUT, SEEMINGLY,NO ONE KNOWS THE ANSWER SO I HAVE TO PRESENT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE,YOU KNOW.BUT THE POSSIBLE HAS REACHED THE STAGE OF PUSHING THE BUTTON AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS THE HEIGHTH OF INTELLECTUAL ENDEAVORS.THE HEIGHTH OF WHAT YOU CALL LIFE AND DEATH AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS PUSHING THE BUTTON.BUT I'M REPRESENTING SOMETHING ELSE AND I NEVER REALLY PRESENTED IT BECAUSE I'M NOT A MINISTER AND I&a...
Show moreISSUE ELEVEN MARCH 1997 SUN RA INTERVIEW WITH KPOO RADIO(SAN FRANCISCO)BETWEEN SETS AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS IN SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA.SEPT.27,1986. KPOO:WE'RE HERE WITH THE GREAT SUN RA IN SAN FRANCISCO AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS.SUN RA,THAT WAS A GREAT SHOW AS USUAL.WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THE SINCE LAST TIME YOU VISITED THE BAY AREA? SUN RA:I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE LOW PROFILE.BUT SINCE THE WORLD IN SUCH A BAD CONDITION AND I NEVER HAVE PRESENTED WHAT I REALLY REPRESENT,BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT,BUT, SEEMINGLY,NO ONE KNOWS THE ANSWER SO I HAVE TO PRESENT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE,YOU KNOW.BUT THE POSSIBLE HAS REACHED THE STAGE OF PUSHING THE BUTTON AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS THE HEIGHTH OF INTELLECTUAL ENDEAVORS.THE HEIGHTH OF WHAT YOU CALL LIFE AND DEATH AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS PUSHING THE BUTTON.BUT I'M REPRESENTING SOMETHING ELSE AND I NEVER REALLY PRESENTED IT BECAUSE I'M NOT A MINISTER AND I'M NOT A CULT LEADER.I'M NOT ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN CLASSIFY ON THIS PLANET.SO THEREFORE IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT.IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO APPROACH PEOPLE WITH AN IDEA LIKE THAT.BUT SINCE THEY'RE FACING TOTAL ANNIHILATION MAYBE THEY'LL LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.'CAUSE THEY SAY TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION,YOU KNOW.THE TRUTH I'M TALKING ABOUT IS STRANGER THAN ANYTHING.IT'S TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE.BUT IT'S THE ONLY WAY.IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN BOOKS.IT'S NEVER BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE.IT'S TOTALLY UNKNOWN.BUT IT'S THE ONLY WAY AT THIS POINT.THE PEOPLE HAVE TO WALK THE PATH OF THE UNKNOWN BE- CAUSE THE KNOWN THINGS HAVE LED TO THE POTENTIAL OF TOTAL DE- STRUCTION.THAT'S WHAT THEIR KNOWLEDGE BROUGHT THEM TO.WELL,I'M NOT DEALING WITH THAT.THAT'S JUST FIVE PERCENT OF MAN'S BRAIN, ANYWAY.I'M DEALING WITH THE POTENTIAL OF THE NINETY FIVE PERCENT OF THEIR BRAIN THAT THEY NEVER USE.THAT'S WHAT THIS MUSIC IS ABOUT.IT'S ABOUT REACHING THOSE AREAS OF THE MIND AND THE SPIRIT THAT'S NEVER BEEN REACHED BEFORE. KPOO:YOU TALKED ABOUT,A LITTLE BIT EARLIER,YOU MAKING A SCHEDULE. AND YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO BE WITH STEEL PULSE DOWN IN SAN DIEGO.STEEL PULSE WAS JUST HERE EARLIER THIS EVENING AND THEY HAVE A SONG OUT CALLED SAVE BLACK MUSIC.HOW WOULD YOU CLASSIFY . THE STATE OF BLACK MUSIC RIGHT NOW? . . , SR:IT'S DEFUNCT RIGHT NOW.BECAUSE IT'S DEALING WITH EARTH THINGS...THEY(MUSICIANS)KNOW ABOUT THE TREES AND THE BIRDS AND THE BEES AND MOSTLY THEY SING ABOUT SEX.BUT I'M(NOT) SINGING ANYTHING ABOUT RELIGIOUS THINGS BUT I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THOSE THINGS.I'M CONCERNED WITH SOMETHING ABOVE THOSE THINGS AND SO,THEREFORE,MY MUSIC IS DIFFERENT.IT HAS A TOUCH OF SOMETHING ELSE IN THERE AND IF YOU CAN CATCH IT THEN ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.IT'S NOT TOO EASY TO CATCH AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE DANGEROUS TO SOME PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY MIGHT THINK IT'S LIKE OTHER RELIGIONS AND THINGS THEY CAN JUMP OVER IN THERE.BUT THEY WON'T SURVIVE IF THEY'RE NOT PURE AND SINCERE. SO THEREFORE,IF IT WEREN'T FOR THAT FACT I'D HAVE ME A TEMPLE AND CHURCH,TOO.MAKE ME MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.BUT I DON'T WANT TO HURT ANYBODY.SO THIS IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE THAT PURE IN HEART AND SINCERE.THE OTHERS CAN STAY BACK AND LEARN.THEY HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY AND THE HARD WAY IS THAT THERE'S ANOTHER KIND OF TRUTH THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AND IT'S YHE ONLY EXIT.ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN FORGET IT.'CAUSE THEY TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE,YOU SEE.DIDN'T WORK. 'x‘ ’. KPOO:YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT SPACE IN YOUR MUSIC AND WITH THE SPACE SHUTTLE BLOWING UP EARLIER THIS YEAR(DO)YOU THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF SPACE NOW? SR:THEY GOT TO DO THINGS PROPERLY.IN THE FIRST PLACE THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SEND ANYBODY UP THERE UNLESS THEY GOT THEIR PASSPORTS AND GOT ALL THE IDENTIFICATION PAPERS AS WHO THEY ARE,WHAT THEIR INTENTS ARE,BECAUSE THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S TERRITORY.AND WHEN YOU GO TO EUROPE OR ASIA(OR)ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GOT A PASSPORT...(TAPE RUNS OUT)...(AFTER TEN SECONDS TO TURN THE TAPE OVER THE INTER- VIEW CONTINUES)...THERFORE_THEY WERE TOTALLY UNPROTECTED AND THEY HAVE TO BE PRECISE.THEY HAVE TO BE DISCIPLINED.THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEIR MINDS ORIENTATED TO FORGET FREEDOM AND BE ON DISCIPLINE PRECISION PLANE.AND IF THAT HAD BEEN DEALT WITH THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NO EXPLOSION BUT THERE WAS SOME HUMAN ERRORS OR SOME- THING AND THEREFORE THAT MEANT FREEDOM.IT MOST CERTAINLY DIDN'T MEAN PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE.IT WAS A LACK OF PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE THAT CAUSED THAT VEHICLE TO DO WHAT IT DID.AND THEY DIED BECAUSE THERE WAS A LACK OF PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE.AND I'M ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE.I KNOW MAN IS PRONE TO RELAX AND FEEL AT HOME...MAN'S A BIG BABY,YOU KNOW.AND HE HAVE TO HAVE ALL THESE LITTLE OLD THINGS TO PENT HIM UP AND MAKE HIM THINK,OH.ISN'T LIFE WONDERFUL LIKE A BABY...BUT IT'S NOT TRUE.HE HAS TO STRUGGLE.HE HAS TO BE PRECISE AND DISCIPLINED.HE HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES.HE GOT TO MAKE SOME TERRIFIC CHOICES NOW THAT'S ABOVE THE MENTALITY OF A MAN.MAN CAN'T DO IT.HE GOT TO USE HIS OTHER PART OF HIM.AND IF HE DO THAT,EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ALLRIGHT.BUT IT'S A VERY CRITICAL STAGE AT THIS POINT.LIKE I TOLD A FELLOW IN PHILADELPHIA.I SAID,WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP BEING A MAN AND EVOLUTE(SIC)TO SOMETHING BETTER?HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT FIRST.BUT EVERYTIME I SEE HIM NOW HE GREETS ME WARMLY BECAUSE HE REALIZE I TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT MAN.IT'S NOT SUITABLE,YOU KNOW,TO BE GOING OUT IN SPACE.BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE DOWN THERE.A LOT OF ANGELS ARE DOWN HERE NOW.AND A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM OUTER SPACE AND IF PEOPLE LISTEN TO THEM THEY'LL PAVE THE WAY.BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BELIEVE IT JUST 'CAUSE THEY GOT TWO LEGS AND LOOK LIKE MAN AND WOMAN.THAT IS NOT TRUE ANYMORE.THERE ARE A LOT OF SPACE PEOPLE DOWN HERE WILLING TO HELP.BUT THEY HAVE TO BE REEDUCATED. YOU KNOW.'CAUSE EVERYTHING THEY THINK IS RIGHT IS WRONG. KPOO:THE STORIES ABOUT YOU APPEARING IN EUROPE ARE LEGENDS.YOU'D GET TWENTY FIVE,THIRTY THOUSAND PEOPLE SHOW UP AT YOUR SHOWS AND MOB SCENES AT THE AIRPORT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.ARE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY BECOMING MORE AWARE OF YOU AND YOUR WORK? SR:I NEVER TRIED TO REACH THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY,REALLY.I NEVER TRIED BECAUSE YOU HAD ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE LEADERS TO DO THAT SO I DIDN'T SEE WHY I SHOULD UNINTELLIGIBLE WHEN THEY HAD ALL THESE LEADERS ALL AROUND.OF COURSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY NOW.BUT THEY DID HAVE A LOT OF THEM AND I STAYED OUT OF ALL THEIR MOVEMENTS BECAUSE I KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO FAIL EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE SINCERE AND WILLING TO DIE FOR.I KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO FAIL.I'M DEALING WITH EQUATIONS AND TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND PEOPLE:THAT'S NOTHING FOR EUROPE.IN FRANCE I HAD ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND IN A PARK THERE.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN EUROPE BECAUSE THEY GOT A CULTURE MINISTER.MOSTLY I GO THERE UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE CULTURE MINISTER.NOW AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A CUL- TURE MINISTER AND THAT'S WHY IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ME HERE BECAUSE IF YOU HAD A CULTURE MINISTER IN AMERICA HE WOULD SEE TO ME PLAY- ING FOR AMERICAN PEOPLE.BUT SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE AND MUSIC IS MOSTLY IN THE COMMERCIAL DEPARTMENT AND NOT IN THE CULTURE DE- PARTMENT AND THAT IS THE ONE BIG FAULT IN AMERICA.I'M SURE IF THEY HAD THE CULTURE MINISTER INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT CRACK AND COCAINE THEY SHOULD PUT SOMETHING THERE THAT TEENAGERS COULD BE PROUD OF.LIKE A CULTURE MINISTER.THAT COULD REPLACE ALL THE DOPE. YOU SEE,IF AMERICA HAD SOME ETHNIC STRUCTURE SOME OF THE PEOPLE COULD FEEL A PART OF AND THE SPIRIT OF THEY WOULDN'T BE DESOLATE THE WAY THEY ARE,YOU SEE.S0(A)BIG LONILINESS AMONG TEENAGER(S). AND THAT'S WHY THEY DOING THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY KNOW GOOD AND WELL THAT WHATEVER SYSTEMS MAN HAS IT'S NOT SUITABLE FOR THIS KIND OF AGES.NOT SUITABLE.SO THEY SEARCHING.THEY LOOKING FOR AN OUTLET.THAT'S WHAT IT IS.BUT IF THEY HAD A CULTURE MINISTER THAT WOULD BE AN OUTLET BECAUSE SOMEBODY WOULD CARE ABOUT BEAUTY AND CULTURE AND IF YOU TAKE ALL THE DOPE AWAY FROM THEM WHAT DO THEY HAVE LEFT,YOU KNOW.BUT THE BUTTON,YOU KNOW. KPOO:SPEAKING OF CULTURE:THERE'S A NEW JAZZ MOVIE COMING OUT AND, I GUESS HOLLYWOOD IS GETTING READY TO SPEND SOME BIG MONEY ON JAZZ.DO YOU THINK THAT THE JAZZ SCENE IS GETTING TO BECOME LIKE IT WAS IN THE THIRTIES AND FOURTIES?THE REVITALIZATION OF THE JAZZ SCENE IN AMERICA SINCE YOU'VE BEEN AROUND SO LONG. SR:AMERICA IS A BIG SUPERFICIAL COUNTRY.IT'S NOT NOTHING LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AND IF THEY WAS DEALING WITH TRUE JAZZ THEY WOULD START BACK WHERE IT STARTED FROM AND SHOW THE MUSICIANS WHO PEOPLE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.THE ONE'S THEY GOT IN THE ARCHIVES AND EVERYTHING ARE ALL HIDDEN.(THEY ARE)TRYING TO DO SOMETHING NEW. TRYING TO DO SOMETHING WITHOUT BLACK PEOPLE.TRYING TO DO SOME- THING WITHOUT BLACK MUSICIANS.THIS IS TOTALLY SELFISH AND IT WON'T WORK,YOU SEE.THEY GOT TO GO BACK THERE AND WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.I MEAN EVERY MUSICIAN THAT HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER IN AMERICA:HE MUST BE DOCUMENTED AND SPOKEN OF.EVERYBODY WHO EVER DID SOMETHING GOOD IN AMERICA THEY GOT TO GIVE THEM CREDIT.OR THIS COUNTRY WILL HIT THE DIRT AND BE LIKE THE REST OF THEM.THEY MUST GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. EVERYBODY HELPED TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.SO YOU CAN'T LEAVE ANYBODY OUT.YOU CAN'T LEAVE ANYBODY OUT.ALL OF THEM STRUGGLED AND HELPED TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.THEREFORE THEY ALL GOT A PART IN IT.THEY ALL SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED FOR WHAT THEY DID BECAUSE AMERICA WOULDN'T BE AS STRONG AS IT IS IF EVERYBODY,EVERYBODY RICH AND POOR,BLACK AND WHITE,CHINESE AND JAPANESE.EVERYBODY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COUNTRY AND EVERYONE.EVERYONE SHOULD BE GIVEN CREDIT FOR WHAT THEY DID BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THAT KIND OF COUNTRY, YOU KNOW.THE TRICK IS:THEY SAY THEY TRUST IN GOD AND THAT'S THE MOST DANGEROUS THING THEY EVER SAID.BECAUSE WHY?THEY GOT TO GIVE ACCOUNT NOW.THEY GOT TO GIVE ACCOUNT.NOW,PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT.BUT THE ONE'S WHO SAY THEY DO: THEY GET JUDGEMENT DAY.JUDGEMENT DAY IS HERE FOR THEM.NOW,THE REST OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD;THEY DON'T HAVE A JUDGEMENT DAY.BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SAY THEY BELIEVE. BUT THE ONE'S WHO SAY THEY BELIEVE AND BEING HYPOCRITICAL:THEY GOT TO PAY NOW. THEY HAVE TO PAY.BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY WELL ORDERED UNIVERSE. AND ALTHOUGH IT LOOKS LIKE NOBODY'S WATCHING.THAT WAS THE BIGGEST TRICK EVER BEEN PLAYED ON AMERICA.THEY THINK NOBODY'S WATCHING. THEY THINK NOBODY WATCHED THE SLAVERY.THEY THINK NOBODY KNOWING ABOUT WHAT THEY DOING TO OLDER PEOPLE.BUT THAT WAS JUST TO GIVE THEM ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG THEMSELVES.OF COURSE IT'S NOT TOO LATE IN A SENSE.IF THEY DEAL WITH BEAUTY AND CULTURE INSTEAD OF VIO- LENCE.BUT MAYBE YES,MAYBE NO.IT DEPENDS. KPOO:YOUR DOING AN INTERESTING SHOW DOWN IN SAN DIEGO WITH STEEL PULSE.HOW DID THAT PAIRING COME ABOUT?IS THAT YOUR IDEA? SR:WELL,SOMEBODY IN SAN DIEGO TRYING TO STOP ME FROM COMING DOWN THERE.SO I ASKED THE CREATOR TO SEND ME DOWN THERE ANYWAY SO HE'S SENDING ME DOWN THERE TO SHOW THIS PERSON THEY CAN'T STOP ME.BUT THEY BEEN DOING IT ABOUT FIVE YEARS.THEY WAS ...SOMEBODY DOWN THERE WAS TRYING TO STOP ME BECAUSE WE WERE DOWN THERE ONCE AND THIS PERSON SAID THAT SOMEBODY IN THE BAND CALLED HIM A HONKEY. WELL,I DIDN'T,YOU KNOW!BUT,I MEAN,I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO BE CRUCIFIED BECAUSE WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE IS DOING IN THIS BAND,YOU KNOW.HE'S SUPPOSED TO JUDGE BY WHAT I'M DOING AND NOT BY WHAT SOMEBODY DO.BUT THAT'S WHY HE BLOCKED...SO I'M GOING THERE ANYWAY 'CAUSE I'M REPRESENTING THE CREATOR.AND ANYTIME I WANT TO GO SOMEWHERE,I'M GOING.OR ELSE THERE WON'T BE NO SAN DIEGO.THE CREATOR BRING AN EARTHQUAKE THROUGH THERE AND GET RID OF IT.YOU KNOW,SEE,I'M WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY WANTS ME TO HELP THIS PLANET.ANYTHING(THAT)GET IN THE WAY THEY GOT MY SYMPATHY. KPOO:BESIDES YOU,WHO ELSE COULD BE CONSIDERED THE MASTERS WHO ARE STILL AROUND? SR:MOST OF THE MASTERS IN ALL WORKS OF PERFORMANCE,THEY STAY HID- DEN FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY SCARED OF THEM.THEY BE OUT ON THE MOUNTAINS,THEY IN THE DESERT,THEY IN THE FOREST.THEY STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE.PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK FOR THEM.I'M THE ONLY SOMEONE THE CREATOR EVER SENT ALONG THAT'S IN THE MIDST OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE (AND)TALKING TO THEM.IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.WHICH MEANS THE SITUATION IS SO CRITICAL ON THIS PLANET THAT THE CREATOR WOULD EXPOSE SOMEBODY LIKE ME TO HUMAN BEINGS WITH ALL THEIR FRAILTIES AND WHATEVER THEY GOT.MOST DREADFUL,YOU KNOW.BUT NEVERTHELESS I'M IN THE MIDST OF THEM AND I'M TELLING THEM WHAT THEY GOT TO DO SO THAT'S IT.THEY HAVE TO LISTEN.AND IT'S NOT THAT I WANT THEM TO LISTEN.(IT'S)NOT MY PLANET.BUT SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS THEM TO LIS- TEN AND THAT SOMEONE IS SO POWERFUL THAT CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT LISTEN.WHICH WORRIES ME.I MIGHT END UP OWNING FIVE BILLION PEOPLE AND I DON'T WANT THEM.(CHUCKLES) KPOO:ON THE MUSIC SCENE,SUN RA,WHAT ARE YOU UP TO?WHAT ARE YOU GETTING READY TO DO MUSICALLY? SR:THE PEOPLE ARE THE INSTRUMENT.THAT'S WHAT I TOLD THEM IN GERMANY TEN YEARS AGO.THE PEOPLE ARE THE INSTRUMENT. KPOO:SO YOU UTILIZE THE PEOPLE TO INTERPRET WHAT YOU SEE AND FEEL. — SR:NO.THEY GOING TO BE PART OF THE BAND.THEY GOING TO BE THE INSTRUMENTS'CAUSE I REACH OF A YYPICAL POINT WHERE HORNS CAN'T DO IT AND NO MAN MADE INSTRUMENTS CAN DO IT.SO I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PEOPLE.THEY'RE NOT MAN MADE,YOU KNOW.THEY'RE INSTRUMENTS IN A SENSE.WELL,THEY GOT TWO HARPS UP THERE ON THE SIDE OF THEIR HEAD THEY CALL EARS.SHAPED JUST LIKE A HARP.THEY GOT STRINGS IN THERE, TOO.SO EVERYTIME I PLAY FOR THEM THESE STRINGS BE MOVING THEREFORE THEY'RE HARP PLAYERS YOU MIGHT SAY.THEY GOT TWO HARPS UP THERE.THESE STRINGS BE MOVING AND THEY BE PLAYING AND AS THEY DO THE WHOLE BODY WILL RESPOND AND TUNE ITSELF UP.YOU KNOW,YOU HAVE TO TUNE A AUTOMOBILE UP.THESE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET ARE OUT OF TUNE.AND SO THEY GOT TO BE TUNED UP.THEY GOT TO BE TIGHTENED UP LIKE THEY DO A PIANO.IF YOU TUNE THEM UP TO THE CREATOR THEY'LL BE IN COMMUNICATION.IF YOU TUNE THEM UP TO SATURN THEY'LL BE IN COMMUNICATION THERE.WHEREVER YOU TUNE THEM THAT'S WHAT THEY GONNA BE.BUT RIGHT NOW THEY IN TUNE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF DEATH. AND THAT'S WHY THEY ONLY END UP OVER THERE BECAUSE THAT'S(WHERE) THEY IN TUNE.DEATH HAS,YOU KNOW,SOUNDS AND IT HAS VIBRATIONS. THESE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET ARE TUNED TO DEATH AND DEATH COMMUN- CATES WITH THEM ALL THE TIME'CAUSE THEY HAVE NO COMUNICATION WITH NOTHING ELSE;BUT IF THEY TUNED UP ON A HIGHER LEVEL THEY'LL BE ABLE TO REACH A HIGHER ORDER OF BEINGS AND IT'S UP TO THEM IF THEY...YES.IT DEPENDS UPON THE MUSIC.BECAUSE MUSIC IS A LANGUAGE. IT'S THE ONLY PURE LANGUAGE.IT'S THE ONLY UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE AND IF THEY WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING THEY GOT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC. YOU KNOW,YOU HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT FACE THE MUSIC.THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT TO DO.WELL,SEE,I NEVER LOOKED FOR FAME OR FOR MONEY OR FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT SO THE TRICK IS;HOW CAN THEY GET ME TO HELP THEM?THAT'S GOING TO BE THEIR GREATEST PROBLEM.GETTING ME TO HELP THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE NOTHING I WANT.I DON'T NEED THEIR DIAMONDS AND GOLD AND NOTHING THEY GOT.IT DOESN'T INTEREST ME.SO HOW COULD HUMAN BEINGS ACTUALLY...WHAT CAN THEY FIND TO IN- DUCE ME TO SOLVE THEIR SITUATION AND GET RID OF THIS FOOLISHNESS THEY IN?WHAT CAN THEY DO?IT INTERESTS ME QUITE...I'M VERY INTER- ESTED AS WHAT......BUT,PERSONALLY,IF THE CREATOR GIVE ME FULL AUTHORITY I'M GOING TO GIVE EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET THEIR EVICTION NOTICES.THEY CAN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.NOW,ONE BLACK MAN ASKED ME AND SAID,"WHERE WE GOING?"I SAID NOT MY PROBLEM.WELL,I SAID YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH THIS PLANET SO,REALLY,THE CREATOR HAS TRIED A LONG TIME WITH PROPHETS AND ALL THAT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.I GOT THE ANSWER.IF YOU GIVE ME AUTHORITY I'M GIVING EVERYBODY EVICTION NOTICES.AND THEY CAN GET OFF THIS PLANET AND NO LONGER CALL IT HOME BECAUSE THEY DON'T APPRECIATE IT AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE,YOU KNOW.THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE EITHER LIVING OR DEAD.I WOULDN'T EVEN LET THEM BE BURIED IN THE PLANET.THEY (CAN)GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.IT'S A LOT OF PLANETS OUT THERE THEY CAN GO OUT.WHY SHOULD THEY STAY HERE AND POLLUTE THIS AND MESS IT UP? IT'S THEIR HOME AT THIS POINT.BUT THEY CAN BE GIVEN EVICTION NOTICES.A LOT OF NATIONS HAVE BEEN ON THIS PLANET.ENDED UP WITH ONLY ONE LEFT AND ALL THAT SO...I MEAN...THEY SHOULD TAKE HEED FROM HISTORY BUT THE MOST SUPERIOR THING YOU HAVE ON THIS PLANET IS MUSIC.WELL,THE MUSICIANS ON THIS PLANET ARE NOT EVEN RESPECTED AS MEN AND THEY HAVE BEEN ABUSED AND STOLEN FROM ALL THIS TIME. IT'S A SHAME AND A DISGRACE.IT'S A NATIONAL DISGRACE FOR AMERICA THE WAY THEY WOULD LET MUSICIANS BE TREATED.AND MUSICIANS HAVE GIFTS FROM THE CREATOR.AND IF ANYTHING IS A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST IT'S A SIN AGAINST THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GIFTS FROM THE CREATOR.THAT IS UNFORGIVABLE.SO THEY GOT TO WATCH THEIR STEP,YOU KNOW. KPOO:SO HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE THE MUSIC OF STEEL PULSE.YOU THINK YOU REALLY LIKE WORKING WITH THEM? - SR:I NEVER HEARD THEM BUT I APPRECIATE ALL MUSICIANS.ALL MUSICIANS PLAY WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT.THAT'S ALL THEY CAN PLAY. A MASTER COME ALONG AND CAN ADD SOME THINGS AND ENCOURAGE THEM. THAT'S THE WAY IT'S DONE.THAT'S THE REASON BLACK MUSICIANS ARE SO GREAT IN AMERICA.BECAUSE THEY HAD MASTERS TO TEACH THEM. HIDDEN MASTERS WHO WERE UNSELFISH WHO TAUGHT THEM WHILE THE WORLD WAS ASLEEP.AMD THEY TAUGHT THEM.EVERY MUSICIAN WHO CAME UP IN AMERICA,JAZZ MUSICIAN,WHO BECAME GREAT WAS AT THE FOOT OF A MASTER.AND THAT'S WHAT MADE THEM GREAT AND THAT'S WHAT,IN A SENSE,WHAT MADE BLACK MUSICIANS LOSE ENERGIES OR SOMETHING HAPPENING HERE IN AMERICA BECAUSE THEY GOT SO PROUD TRYING TO BE LIKE WHITE PEOPLE AND TRYING TO GET INTO POLITICS UNTILL THEY LOST.YHEY STOPPED FOLLOWING THE MASTERS THAT THE CREATOR SENT THEM.AND NOW THEY'RE AT A STAGE OF...WELL,ANNIHILATION AS MUSICIANS BECAUSE YOU GOT ALL THESE ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS AND EVERYTHING.AND THAT TENDS TO PUT THEM OUT OF WORK,YOU KNOW.BUT IT DOESN'T NECESARILY HAVE TO HAPPEN IF THEY WOULD LISTEN TO THE MASTERS.THEY'RE AMONG THE MASTERS HERE FOR ALL BLACK PEOPLE.THEY HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE MASTERS.THEY BEEN LISTENING TO THE WHITE MASTER.WELL,HE'S HAVING A HARD TIME NOW.HE CAN'T HANDLE THE SITUATION SO...YOU HAVE TO START LISTENING TO THE BLACK 0NES.THEY WON'T ABOUT REVOLUTION.THEY'LL TALK ABOUT YOU GETTING OFF THIS PLANET.YOU DON'T BELONG HERE NO WAY.YOU'LL NEVER BE PART OF IT. YOU CAN JUST FORGET IT. KPOO:I GOT TWO MORE QUESTIONS.THE FIRST IS WHAT WOULD YOU...YOU JUST EXPLAINED THAT HOW THIS COUNTRY TREATS ITS MUSICIANS.WHAT WOULD YOU TELL A YOUNG MUSICIAN COMING UP AS FAR AS FURTHERING HIS FUTURE AS A MUSICIAN?A MUSICIAN IN AMERICA. SR:WELL,THEY GOT TO COME PAST ME BECAUSE I'M GETTING READY TO NULLIFY ALL THE MUSICS THAT BLACK FOLKS DOING BECAUSE I'M ANGRY WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY’HAVEN'T TREATED ME RIGHT EITHER SO I JUST NULLIFY EVERYTHING THEY GOT.WHICH INCLUDES THEIR MUSICIANS,TOO. I'M GOING TO NULLIFY EVERYTHING THAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT.I'M GOING TO NULLIFY THEIR MUSIC.I'M GOING TO NULLIFY EVERYTHING THAT MAN HAS BEEN HOLDING ON TO.AND HE GOING TO HAVE TO COME BY ME. NOW,I'M NOT GOD.IF I WAS GOD I'D FORGIVE THEM.IF I WAS THE DEVIL I'D PUNISH THEM.BUT I'M NOT GOING TO DO EITHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS.I'M GOING TO ACT LIKE THEY DON'T EXIST.LIKE THEY BEEN DOING ME. KPOO:FINALLY,IF,WHEN THESE MUSICIANS DECIDED THEY WANTED TO JOIN THE RA BAND WHAT WOULD THEY HAVE TO DO TO HOOK UP WITH YOU AND PLAY IN YOUR BAND? SR:THEY GOT TO BE TOTALLY SINCERE.OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE QUITE DANGEROUS.I'VE TRIED TO HELP A FEW TEENAGERS.I THOUGHT MAYBE THAT WOULD BE THE ANSWER.BLACK ONES:THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT,YOU KNOW. BECAUSE,YOU KNOW,THEY WERE PROUD AND THEY WERE SELFISH AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT,THEY WON'T MAKE IT WITH ME.BUT,YOU KNOW,IT'S HARD TO FIND...IT'S DIFFICULT TO FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE SINCERE.IT'S QUITE DIFFICULT.IT USED TO BE EASY IN THE BLACK RACE.(NOW IT IS)QUITE DIFFICULT. KPOO:AGAIN THOSE CONCERTS DATES.THEY MENTIONED A COUPLE OF CONCERRT DATES.YOU GOING TO BE AROUND THIS WEEK? SR:I'M GOING TO BE AROUND.I'M GOING TO A LOT OF SAN PLACES.LIKE SAN RAFEAL,SANTA CRUZ,SANTA ROSA AND THEN I'M GOING TO A PLACE... THE LAST DATE I'M PLAYING IN CALIFORNIA I'M GOING TO A PLACE WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE OPPOSE US.(THEY)SAY DON'T GO THERE.AND THIS IS SOMETHING THEY CALL THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF IT.BUT ONE OF THEM HEARD US IN NEW YORK CITY AT THE LONE STAR AND HE WANTED US TO COME AND PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE. SO OF COURSE I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.IT INTRIGUES ME WHY THEY WOULD TELL ME DON'T GO THERE.IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE MAYBE ABOUT...THE TOWN'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT FOUR BLOCKS LONG AND THE PEOPLE COME OUT(FROM)THE MOUNTAIN TO HEAR THE BAND. WELL,I'M VERY INTRIGUED AND HAPPY THAT ONE OF THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE CAME TO NEW YORK AND HEARD US AND WANTS US TO PLAY FOR THEM.SO THAT IS A...YEAH,I'M PLAYING FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.AND THEY GOT TO COME OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN TO HEAR US AND THAT'S GOOD.I'M SURE THAT IN AMERICA WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME IS THAT THE HILL- BILLIES AND THE SOUTHERN PREJUDICE PEOPLE AND THE KU KLUX KLAN AND ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE THAT DISCRIMINATE ARE GOING TO SEE I GET THE PROPER CHANCE HERE.THEY GOING TO SEE TO IT.WHERE IT SHOULD BE THE BLACK PEOPLE AND THE WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SO LIBERAL.THEY SUPPOSED TO DO IT BUT THEY NOT DOING IT.SO THEN THE CREATOR GOING TO TAKE THE OTHERS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE THE VERY ENEMY OF BLACK PEOPLE AND THEY GOING TO HELP ME BECAUSE THEY CAN DISCRIMINATE.A PERSON WHO CAN DISCRIMINATE WILL ALWAYS CHOOSE THE BEST.AND THE DISCRIMINATORS ARE GOING TO BE THE ONE THAT SEE TO IT THAT AMERICA TREAT ME PROPERLY.AND THAT'S THE REASON I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.WE WENT UP IN NEW ENGLAND PLAYING AND NEW ENGLAND,THEY HAVEN'T HEARD...YOU KNOW,THEY VERY STAID UP THERE.A FELLOW IN PHILADELPHIASAID,'WELL.DO YOU PLAY FOR WHITE PEOPLE?I SAID,'YES.WE PLAY FOR THEM ALL THE TIME.HE SAID.'NO.I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WHITE WHITE PEOPLE.THE YANKEES OF NEW ENGLAND. THEY NEVER DO HAVE ANYTHING UP THERE...WOULD YOU PLAY FOR THEM?‘ I SAID,'SURE.'SO ANOTHER BOOKING AGENT,THEY BEEN TRYING TO GET US THERE FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS.HE NEVER COULD GET US UP THERE.FINALLY WE DID GO UP THERE AND NEW ENGLAND GAVE US STANDING OVATIONS.WE GETTING READY TO GO BACK.THEY LIKED WHAT WE WERE DOING.AND ONE TIME THE MAN SAID,'WELL,HOW DID WE REDNECKS TREAT YOU?WE TREAT YOU ALLRIGHT,DIDNT(WE).'AND THEY DID.IT WAS VERY NICE.SO NEW YEARS EVE,ATLANTA,GEORGIA WANTS ME TO PLAY DOWN THERE EVERY NEW YEARS EVE AND WE PLAYED THERE TWO NEW YEARS AND THEY WANT US TO COME BACK AND PLAY AND THAT'S THE GATEWAY TO THE SOUTH.BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN IN ALABAMA TO PLAY...IN OTHER PARTS OF GEORGIA OR MISSISSIPPI.I'VE BEEN TO NEW ORLEANS....THERE'S A LOT OF STATES I'VE BEEN T0.0KLAHOMA...BUT I'M GETTING READY TO GO TO SALT LAKE CITY.I NEVER PLAYED THERE.WHEN I LEAVE CALIFORNIA I'M PLAYING THE MORMON TERRITORY.WE'LL SEE WHAT THE MORMONS SAY. KPOO:(LAUGHING)THAT SHOULD BE INTERESTING.OK.THANK YOU VERY MUCH SUN RA.YOUR SHOW IS GREAT AS USUAL AND WE ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU OUT HERE IN CALIFORNIA. SR:OK.THANK YOU. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS.PETER HINDS AND CARLOS SANTANA....SEPTEMBER 29,l986....BETWEEN SETS AT NEW GEORGE'S SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA............. . . . . . .... . . . . . . ........... SUN RA:AND THE FIRST THING:I'M GOING TO GET THE HILLBILLIES.I GOT THEM ALREADY.I GOT THE HILLBILLIES.AND I GOT THE REDNECKS.I PLAYED UP IN NEW ENGLAND AND THE REDNECKS SAID.'TREAT YOU PRETTY GOOD,DIDN'T WE?WE REDNECKS ALLRIGHT.'I SAID,'YES.'(LAUGHTER) UP IN YANKEE TERRITORY.WENT UP THERE.AND NOW I'M GETTING READY TO GO TO THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA WHICH EVERYONE SAYS. ‘DON'T GO AND PLAY FOR THEM.'I SAY,'I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THEM.’ PETER HINDS:UP IN GARBERVILLE. SR:THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.THEY GOT A TERRIBLE REPUTATION.I'M GOING TO THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE WHEN? PH:MONDAY. WOMAN'S VOICE:WHERE IN THE MOUNTAINS ARE YOU GOING? SR:IT'S A TOWN ABOUT FOUR BLOCKS LONG.START WITH A G. PH:GARBERVILLE. SR:AND THEY MOUNTAIN PEOPLE...THEY...MOST OF THEM I HEAR ARE VETS.AND THEY GOT TIGER TRAPS AND BEAR TRAPS IN THE MOUNTAIN(S). TRAP PEOPLE THAT COME UP THERE THAT NOT INVITED.AND THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE AND IT'S TERRIBLE.BUT ONE OF THEM CAME TO NEW YORK AND HEARD US AND INVITED US THERE TO PLAY. WV:HOW NICE.HOW VERY NICE. SR:THE BOOKING AGENT SAID,'DON'T GO UP THERE.'WHY SHOULDN'T I PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE?SAID,'TERRIBLE.THEY'RE TERRIBLE.' I SAID,'BUT,THEY'RE WARM LIKE US.I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.'TOLD THE FELLAS,'DON'T WALK OUT IN THE WOODS. GOT TIGER TRAPS.'THEY TELL ME THE FBI GOT SIGNS UP THERE.DON'T VENTURE IN THEIR TERRITORY.THEY GOT THEM OUT THERE(TRAPS)BASIC- ALLY SET FOR THE FBI AND CIA NOW.I HEAR.I HEAR THEY VETS AND THEIR OWN LITTLE PRIVATE ESTATES AND PARKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT SO THEY DON'T WANT THE CIA AND FBI UP IN THERE.SET BEAR TRAPS AND TIGER TRAPS.AND WE STAY RIGHT AT THE HOTEL AND WE NOT GOING...IF ANY OF'THEM GET CAUGHT IN THE TIGER TRAPS...IT'S TOO BAD. (LAUGHTER)I'M NOT GOING OUT THERE TO GET THEM. SUN RA:THE WORLD THE WAY IT IS...IT'S THE SAME WAY IT WAS WHEN I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TEACHING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IN BERKELEY.AND THEY FIRED ME.EVERYTHING I SAID HAS COME TRUE.EVERY- THING.AND I SAID,'WELL,IT'S NOT A UNIVERSITY IF STUDENTS CAN'T HEAR EVERYTHING PRO AND CON.IT'S NOT A UNIVERSITY.'CAUSE A UNI- VERSITY MEAN THEY HAVE TO BE EXPOSED TO EVERYTHING.'CAUSE THEY GET OUT THERE AND THE ONE THING THEY COULDN'T LEARN COULD BEAT THEM ON DOWN TO THE GROUND AND DEFEAT THEM.I TOLD THEM THAT.AND NOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS SPREAD OUT ALL OVER PLANET EARTH. EVERY NATION HERE.AND THEY GOING TO HAVE TO FACE IT,YOU KNOW. IT IS THE TRUTH.I WISH IT WASN'T.IT IS.IT'S ANOTHER KIND OF TRUTH.IT'S GOING TO STOP EVERY WHEEL THAT'S ON THIS PLANET. 'CAUSE I'M DEALING WITH A CREATOR THAT NEVER EVER EVEN APPROACHED THIS PLANET EXCEPT WHEN THESE PLANETS CEASE AND HE LEFT IT.HE NEVER...HE NEVER APPROACHED IT.ALL THAT STUFF THEY GOT...THAT'S NOT HIM.HE NEVER DID APPROACH THEM 'CAUSE NOBODY ASKED HIM TO. THEY'S TRYING TO DO THINGS THEIR OWN WAY.THEY WAS TALKING WHAT THEY THOUGHT GOD IS AND,YOU KNOW,THEY HAD THEM OVER IN THEIR IMAGE SAY(ING),'OH, HE'S THIS AND HE'S THAT.'AND ALL OF THEM CAME UP AND NOBODY TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM.EVERYBODY FELL SHORT.THEY ALL FELL SHORT.SO,YOU KNOW,SCHOOL IS ABOUT TO CLOSE NOW.THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT.ALL OF THEM GONNA GET A X.FOR TOMORROW.GIVE ALL OF THEM A X.KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?THAT MEANS(LAUGHS)THEY FAILED THE COURSE.SO THEN NOW THEY GOT TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.WELL,THAT COURSE WHAT THEY FAILED;THAT WILL BE ABOLISHED.THEY GET A WHOLE NEW SYSTEM NOW,WHOLE THING SO THEY CAN SEE WHAT THEY GOING TO DO WITH THAT.BUT THEY'LL NEVER COME BACK UNINTELLIGIBLE THE COURSE. THEY JUST FAILED IT.SO,YOU KNOW,IT'S LIKE PLAYING A GAME OF CHESS.IF YOU LOST THE GAME,THAT'S IT.YOU DON'T PLAY THAT GAME OVER.I MEAN,YOU PLAY ANOTHER ONE.IT'S ALL A GAME,YOU KNOW. NOTHING BUT A GAME.LIKE CHESS.AND SOMEBODY'S PLAYING THIS GAME AND WHEN THEY TAKE THE MAN OF THE BOARD IT'S JUST LIKE CHESS.YOU PUT THEM IN A BOX.AND ALL THEM FOLKS OUT THERE IN BOXES.THEY TOOK THEM OFF THE BOARD.THEY LOST.AND WHOEVER WAS PLAYING THE GAME LOST,TOO.AND SOMEBODY ELSE PLAYING THE GAME WON,YOU KNOW.SO I'M FROM THE EMPEROR.NOW THEY TALKING ABOUT THE KING.KING'S DON'T ‘. ;»4gt»$,l%- .;,_,',”g:. STAND A CHANCE WITH EMPERORS,YOU KNOW.ANYBODY CAN BE A KING.NOT EVERYBODY CAN BE EMPEROR 'CAUSE AN EMPEROR HAS AN EMPIRE.AND THIS CREATOR HAS AN EMPIRE OF THE OMNIVERSE.YOU CAN'T GO NO HIGHER THAN THAT.HE DON'T CARE NOTHIN' ABOUT NO UNIVERSE.HUGE UNIVERSE (USED)FOR STEPPING STONE.BUT,SEE,IN NEW YORK I DID A LOT OF THINGS THAT THE WORLD HADN'T HEARD AND I SAID,'WELL USE UNIVERSE FOR STEPPING STONES.AND THEY NEED TO HEAR WHAT NEW YORK HAS HEARD.FOR WHAT?ABOUT FIFTEEN YEARS?FIFTEEN YEARS NEW YORK HAS BEEN HEARING WHAT I'M SAYING AND PLAYING.REST OF THE WORLD SITTING OUT HERE...DUMMIES.DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.BUT MOSTLY I'LL BE PLAYING IN AVANTE-GARDE PLACES AND LIKE THAT AND MOSTLY I'LL BE PLAYING IN THE EUROPEAN PLACES IN AMERICA.YUGOSLAVIA HAD A PLACE THERE.I PLAYED FOR THEM. JOHN HINDS:WHERE? sR:YUGOSLAvIA.RIGHT IN NEw YORK CITY.THEY HAD A CLUB.AND (wHEN)wE STOPPED PLAYING THERE IT_gLOSED_DOwN.NOEODY COULD DRAw THERE BUT THEY CAME IN AND THERE WAS SOME PEOPLE FROM SWEDEN HERE,PLAYED FOR THEM.SwITzERLAND.AMERIcANS?wELL...I'M BEGINNING TO wONDER IF THERE ARE ANY.WE DON'T PLAY FOR THEM.wE ALwAYS PLAYING FOR SOME- BODY PROM EUROPE wHO GOT CONTACT IN EUROPE.IT'S MOST AMAzING.YOU KNOw.OR ELSE,THE ONLY AMERICANS wE PLAY FOR...HILLBILLIES AND REDNECxS.PLAYED EOR THEM.AND THEN THEY....THE HARDCORE PLACES LIKE THE MOTORCYCLE GANGS AND ALL THAT.PLAYED POR THEM.sEE.THEY AwAKE.EUT THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT GOT THESE NICE CLUEs...wE DON'T PLAY FOR THEM.'CAUsE THEY STILL ASLEEP.NOw I'M GETTING READY... I GOT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF FANS THAT'S ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PRINGE OF RELIGION,PHILOSOPHY,SOCIETY.THEY ON THE OUTSIDE BUT THEY AWAKE.THEY READY.AND I'M READY,TOO. CARLOS SANTANA:EXCUSE ME MR.MYSTERY.MY NAME'S MR.SANTANA AND... SR:COME UP CLOSER. CS:AND I'D LIKE TO OFFER YOU MY DEEPEST GRATITUDE FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO ILLUME AND TRANSFORM AND ELEVATE THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF HUMANITY THROUGH YOUR MUSIC...(SPOKEN SOFTLY) SR:SPEAK A LITTLE CLOSER. CS:I SAY I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER YOU MY DEEPEST GRATITUDE FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO ILLUME..TRANSFORM AND ELEVATE THE CONSCIOUSNESS S OF HUMANITY THROUGH YOUR MUSIC AND THROUGH THE MUSIC OF YOUR A BROTHERS.I'M VERY GRATEFUL AND I'D LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I § ASPIRE TO INVITE YOU AND THE MUSIC OF OLATUNJI AND PERHAPS DO A L CONCERT WITH THREE BANDS SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.AND IF YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER. SR:ALLRIGHT.WILL YOU GET HIS...YOUR NUMBER.AND HE'LL GIVE YOU MINE. 1 CS:THANK YOU.SUN RA. SR:AND NOW. WE GETTING READY TO GO TO...WHEN WE LEAVE HERE WE'RE GOING TO SALT LAKE CITY UP THERE IN MORMON COUNTRY.THEN WE KEEP ON TO WASHINGTON DC THEN WE HEADED TO FLORENCE AND ROME.AND WE BE GOING THERE ABOUT A WEEK.WE SUPPOSED TO GO TO FRANCE BUT DUE TO THE ATMOSPHERE IN FRANCE...I-DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING THERE,YOU KNOW.I WANT TO GO MYSELF.I THINK SOME FELLOWS IN THE BAND ARE 12 AFRAID.BUT I'M NOT AFRAID.I'D GO THERE.I CAN FEEL THAT THEY KIND OF NOT TO PLEASED WITH THE IDEA OF GOING TO PARIS.(CHUCKLES) CS:(CHUCKLES)WE WALK IN GRACE,I'M SURE.WE WALK IN GRACE AND I'M SURE THE BAND'S GOT PROTECTION AND DIVINE PROTECTION. SR:OH YEAH.I KNOW I HAVE.BUT,YOU SEE,A LOT OF MEN DON'T HAVE THEIR SHIELDS UP.YOU KNOW,AND THEY'RE SORT OF COMPLACENT AND THEY DON'T REALIZE THEY GOT TO HAVE THEIR SHIELDS UP WITH COLORS AND PERFUMES AND VIBRATIONS AND CLOTHES.THE RIGHT KIND OF COLORS.AND THEY JUST WALKING AROUND LIKE THEY PROTECTED BUT THEY AREN'T.THEY GOT TO PUT THEIR SHIELDS UP ‘CAUSE THESE FORCES ATTACK WHEN THEY SEE A PERSON WITH THE WRONG COLOR ON FOR THEIR SPIRIT.EVERYDAY THEY GOT TO BE CHANGING COLORS ACCORDING TO ...SOMETHING TO COUNTERACT OTHER KIND OF COLORS.WHEN THEY PUT ON THE RIGHT COLORS,THEN THEIR SPIRIT JUST VIBRATE AND HARMONIZE AND PUT PRO- TECTION AROUND.BUT PEOPLE JUST PUT ON ANYTHING.ANY COLOR.IT'S DANGEROUS.SO THEY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT.THEY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT TO BE OBEDIENT AND TO LISTEN SO THEY CAN GET USED TO BEING OBEDIENT TO THEIR SPIRIT AND YOU KNOW...BUT IT'S ALMOST WHERE IT'S TOO LATE. ABOUT ONE MINUTE TO MIDNIGHT. CS:IT'S WONDERFUL TO MEET YOU AND AGAIN MY GRATITUDE FOR YOUR MUSIC... SR:BE WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU.OK.ALL RIGHT. (CARLOS SANTANA EXITS) SR:EVERYTHING I WAS SAYING,YOU SEE,IS...WASN'T WRITTEN.I JUST SAID IT ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAD FOUND OUT IN MY RESEARCHES AND I WAS DOING THIS SPIRITUALLY.YOU GOT TO PUT THESE WORDS TOGETHER PROPERLY.IF YOU GOT CERTAIN CHEMICALS TOGETHER THEY BECOME DEADLY.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH WORDS.THAT'S TRUE.BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THIS OVER IN PHILOSOPHY.YOU DON'T HAVE IT IN RELIGION NEITHER.THEY DON'T UNINTELLIGIBLE...(TAPE RUNS OUT)..... (TAPE CONTINUES) , . . . . .. PH:THIS REMINDS ME OF THAT BOOK YOU SHOWED US A YEAR OR TWO AGO. THAT OTHER SMALL EDITION FROM ENGLAND OR SOMETHING. JOHN HINDS:FROM ENGLAND. PH:REMEMBER THAT ONE?A RATHER LIMITED EDITION.TRANSCRIPTIONS. SR:OH YEAH.WELL THIS A BIG BOOK WHEN YOU THINK OF IT. PH:YEAH.THAT IS. SR:MAYBE THESE POEMS SHOULD BE IN A BOOK LIKE THIS.ALL OF THEM. JH:YEAH.THAT WOULD BE THE THING.YEAH. SR:'CAUSE PEOPLE REALLY WANT IT. PH:IT WAS NICE HEARING SPACE AURA. SR:OH YEAH.SPACE AURA IS...IT'S A SLEEPER.IT'S VERY...IT'S _ TALKING.I THINK I'LL PLAY IT WHEN I GO...I REALLY LIKE IT SLOW, TOO.(SUN RA AND JOHN HINDS SING).... 13 SR:'CAUSE YOU DO A FAST VERSION FROM THE FIFTIES.THERE'S A COUPLE VERSIONS.ONE'S FAST AND ONE'S REAL SLOW.OH,IT'S BEAUTIFUL. SR:RIGHT.THAT'S THE THING ABOUT MY COMPOSITIONS.THEY CAN BE PLAYED BOTH WAYS.THEY(CAN)BE PLAYED SO FAST YOUTTHINK THE MUSICIANS...BUT,YOU KNOW,IT'S REACHED A STAGE WHERE SOME MUSICIANS,IF THEY PLAY THEM WRONG,THEY GET WEAKER AND WEAKER. THAT'S RIGHT.SOME THEY GET STRONGER AND STRONGER SO,YOU SEE,THIS IS ANOTHER KIND OF MUSIC. PH:BILLY BANG.I HEARD AN INTERVIEW LAST NIGHT ON ART SATO'S SHOW... SR:OH YEAH.BILLY BANG.YOU SHOULD HEAR HIM PLAY WITH US. PH:WELL,HE WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU ON THIS INTERVIEW LAST NIGHT... SR:WHAT DID HE SAY?...HE SAY HE'S GOING TO BE OUT HERE AROUND THIS TIME. PH:HE'S BACK EAST RIGHT NOW BUT ART SATO PLAYED A SEGMENT OF THIS LONG INTERVIEW HE DID WITH BILLY BANG AND BILLY BANG WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU IN THIS SEGMENT HE PLAYED AND HE SAID,'BOY!SUN RA KNOWS SO MUCH AND HAS GOT SO MUCH MUSIC THAT I KNOW HE'S TAKING IT EASY ON ME...'(SUN RA LAUGHS)HE GOES.'I'M HAVING TROUBLE KEEPING UP AND I KNOW HE'S TAKING IT EASY ON ME.'YOU KNOW.YEAH.THAT WAS GREAT.SO HE WAS JUST SO PLEASED TO...HE SAYS HE WANTS TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF BUT HE'S,LIKE,TORN'CAUSE HE WANTS TO PLAY MORE WITH YOU...(SUN RA LAUGHS)AND HE'S REALLY WORKING ON MAKING ROOM FOR BOTH NOW.SO IT'S VERY NICE,YOU KNOW. SR:YEAH.HE DID SAY EVERYTIME HE PLAY:'I GOT TO COME TO PHILADELPHIA AND STAY WITH YOU ALL BUT YOU DID SOMETHING ELSE TONIGHT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT...'ONE NIGHT WE WAS PLAYING.JUST HE AND I AND THEN HE STOPPED... PH:AT HOME? SR:N0.0N THE JOB IN NEW YORK.AND.YOU KNOW,EVERYBODY LAID OUT AND I PLAYED HE'S PLAYING AND ALL AT ONCE HE STOPPED.BUT I ASKED HIM, I SAID,'WHY DID YOU STOP?’(HE REPLIED)'WELL,IT WENT...IT WAS GOING SO(FAST)...I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.'(LAUGHS)I SAID,'WHAT YOU WERE PLAYING WERE BEAUTIFUL.'HE SAID,'YEAH.BUT I JUST REACHED A STAGE(WHERE)I HAD TO LISTEN TO YOU INSTEAD.SO...IT REALLY IS BRANCHING OUT.IN FACT,'CAUSE THE PIANO PLAYER(GRAHAM CONNAH),LAST PLACE WE PLAYED(SANTA CRUZ),MAYBE HE WASN'T EVEN TWENTY,HE SAY, 'YEAH.OH,TONIGHT YOU PLAYED ALL MY FAVORITE NUMBERS AND MY FAVO- RITE NUMBER IS IMAGES.AND YOU PLAYED THAT. PH:WHERE WAS THIS,NOW?IN SANTA CRUZ?LAST NIGHT. SR:SANTA CRUZ.AND HE SAID...YEAH,IMAGES.AND HE SAID,'I BEEN TRYING TO...I BEEN TRYING TO PLAY THAT.I LISTEN TO IT AND I TRY TO WRITE IT AND I THINK I GOT IT...I CAN'T...IT'S SOMETHING WHERE I CAN'T CATCH IT.'I SAID,'YEAH.WELL,IT'S THAT KIND OF NUMBER.’ IT OFFERS SO MANY POTENTIALS WHEN YOU PLAYING IT YOU HEAR SOMETHING ELSE.AND I SAID,'I'VE WRITTEN IT SEVERAL TIMES OVER.ANOTHER WAY TO WRITE IT.'OTHER CHORDS COME IN THERE AND THEY ALL SOUND GOOD. 14 I SAID,'IT'S ONE OF THOSE SONGS.'I GOT ANOTHER ONE LIKE THAT. IT'S...THEY PLAN(TO LEAVE).THAT SONG...THE BASS CAN BE A LOT OF THINGS.IT'S INTRIGUING.CAN'T TELL WHAT KEY IT'S IN EITHER. ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS TO BE IN A CERTAIN KEY,WHEN YOU WRITE IT THEN YOU NOT SATISFIED.'CAUSE IT'S INTANGIBLE.IT'S AN INTAGIBLE SONG. AND I GOT A LOT OF SONGS LIKE THIS.INTANGIBLE.THEY DON'T EVEN...THERE NOT IN ANY EARTH KEY.I CREATED THEM AT THE HOUSE AND I GOT TO PUT THEM OUT BUT I'D HAVE TO TEACH THE BAND OVER.I'D HAVE TO TEACH THEM OVER EECAUSE THEY LOST THE FEEL.SEE.THEY MIGHT PLAY THE NOTES BUT THE FEELING IS SOMETHING ELSE.AND I'M GOING TO GET BACK TO THAT.BUT IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE I GO AND GET SOME MUSICIANS AND THEY COULD BE JUST FULL OF STEAM AND READY AND THEY GET WEAKER. EVERY NIGHT THEY GET WEAKER,WEAKER AND WEAKER AND THAT'S THE REASON I GOT MY ELECTRONICS...AND I GOT TO GET SOME MORE.FIVE OR SIX OF THEM AND THEN I'LL PLAY THAT.I HAVE TO KEEP ON MOVING.I HAVE A MESSAGE TO GET EXPLAINED.I HAVE TO DO IT WETHER THE MUSICIANS CAN MAKE IT OR NOT.I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO STAND STILL.BUT I CAN DO IT AND THEN YOU CAN HEAR IT.HIT ONE NOTE.BAM! AND YOU WAIT A LITTLE.ANOTHER NOTE.BAM!AND IF YOU HIT THAT NOTE TOO SOON THERE'S NO MESSAGE THERE.THAT'S HOW DELICATE IT IS.THAT NOTE HAS TO BE...THAT'S THE REASON JOHN CAGE HAS GOT HIS WATCH. HE DOING IT LIKE THAT.HE GOT THAT WATCH.....YOU'LL SEE HIM CHANT. AND HE WAIT.SUDDENLY HE'LL DO IT LIKE THAT.BUT I'M NOT DOING IT LIKE THAT.I'LL DO IT...I'M DOING IT NATURAL.THAT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT.NOW,IT'S POSSIBLE HE CAN TAKE HIS THING...HE CAN TEACH SOMEBODY ELSE WHO HAS GOT THEIR WATCH.I CAN'T.I DON'T HAVE A WATCH.EVERY TIME I GET ONE I LOSE IT,ANYWAY.(LAUGHTER)BUT I CAN SAY THAT PEOPLE ARE LISTENING MORE INTENTLY AT WHAT I'M DOING AND WHAT I'M SAYING.THEY LISTENING. PH:IT wAs FUNNY WHEN THE SET ENDED TONIGHT YOU WERE STANUING WITH YOUR ARMS CROSSED STARING AT EVERYONE.N0 ONE wAs SINGING.I wAs WONDERING...N0 ONE wAs REALLY SINGING IN THE CROWD wnxcn IS UN- UsUAL.ANU I THOUGHT YOU wAs JUST LOOKING AT THEM... SR:THEY wAs JUST wATcHING ME. JH:JUST TOTALLY INTENT ON THAT§sO POWERFUL. SR:)LAUGHS) PH:WELL,I THINK THEY WERE A LITTLE TRANSFIXED,YOU KNOW. 15 SUN RA AND NOEL SCOTT NEW YORK. . .1989. . . . . . PHOTO:ANDREW HILL. . . . MARSHALL ALLEN AND JOTHAN CALLINS NEW YORK . 1 99 1 . PHOTO : R .' MAYEDA -4 = JUNE TYSON f NEW YORK.l99l % PHOTO:R.MAYEDA JAMES JACSON NEW YORK . 1991 PHOTO: R . MAYEDA SUN RA AND JUNE TYSON OUTSIDE SWEET BASIL NEW YOR-K.JULY 1984 PHOTO:C.ROMA I'M REPRESENTING SOMETHING ELSE AND I NEVER REALLY PRESENTED IT BECAUSE I'M ‘ NOT A MINISTER AND I'M NOT A CULT 1 LEADER. I'M NOT ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN CLASSIFY ON THIS PLANET. SO THEREFORE IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT. IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO APPROACH PEOPLE WITH AN IDEA LIKE THAT. BUT SINCE THEY'RE FACING TOTAL ANNIHILATION MAYBE THEY'LL LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE. ’CAUSE THEY SAY TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION, YOU KNOW. THE TRUTH I'M TALKING ABOUT IS STRANGER THAN ANYTHING. IT'S TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE. BUT |T's THE ONLY WAY. IT'S ABOUT SOMETH INC THAT'S NoT IN BOOKS. IT'S NEVER BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE. IT'S TOTALLY UNKNOWN. BUT IT'S THE ONLY wAv AT THIS POINT. THE PEOPLE HAVE To WALK THE PATH OF THE UNKNOWN BECAUSE THE KNOWN THINGS HAVE LED TO THE POTENTIAL OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION. THAT'S WHAT THEIR KNOWLEDGE BROUGHT THEMTO. SUN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-11
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 12 (July, 1997)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1997-07-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Juur 1997 ISSUE Twnvs A 1' BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE. CA 94030 (9 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PET R HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00 I .. .) M. ,./W, SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLIS _A poa- PH OTO: PETER HINDS SUN RA. . .SEPT. 1986 MABUHAY GARDENS SAN FRANCISCO CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS.............. NEW GEORGE'S....SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA...SEPTEMBER 29,1986....... SUN RA:MEN ON THIS PLANET ARE NOT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.AND WHEN I GET UNINTELLIGIBLE HERE THEY WILL BE THERE OR BE DEAD.I RATHER FOR EVERY MAN TO BE DEAD ON THIS PLANET THAN TO BE THE WAY THEY ARE.I'M NOT GOING(TO)COMPROMISE...MAKE NO EXCUSES FOR NO MAN.TO ERR IS HUMAN IS NOT MY CREED.I CAN'T BE MAKING MISTAKES WHEN I'M PLAYING MY MUSIC.AND MEN SHOULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHEN THEY DOING OTHER THINGS.WHY SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN THE FREEDOM I DON'T HAVE?I DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE MISTAKES IN MUSIC.IF I MAKE A MISTAKE THE WORLD CAN TELL IT.AN...
Show moreJuur 1997 ISSUE Twnvs A 1' BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE. CA 94030 (9 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PET R HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00 I .. .) M. ,./W, SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLIS _A poa- PH OTO: PETER HINDS SUN RA. . .SEPT. 1986 MABUHAY GARDENS SAN FRANCISCO CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS.............. NEW GEORGE'S....SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA...SEPTEMBER 29,1986....... SUN RA:MEN ON THIS PLANET ARE NOT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.AND WHEN I GET UNINTELLIGIBLE HERE THEY WILL BE THERE OR BE DEAD.I RATHER FOR EVERY MAN TO BE DEAD ON THIS PLANET THAN TO BE THE WAY THEY ARE.I'M NOT GOING(TO)COMPROMISE...MAKE NO EXCUSES FOR NO MAN.TO ERR IS HUMAN IS NOT MY CREED.I CAN'T BE MAKING MISTAKES WHEN I'M PLAYING MY MUSIC.AND MEN SHOULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHEN THEY DOING OTHER THINGS.WHY SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN THE FREEDOM I DON'T HAVE?I DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE MISTAKES IN MUSIC.IF I MAKE A MISTAKE THE WORLD CAN TELL IT.AND MEN CAN MAKE MISTAKES AND THE WORLD WON'T SEE IT.BUT THEY SHOULDN'T MAKE ANY.I STUDIED SO I WON'T MAKE ANY.I DO THINGS ON PRECISION BASIS.IF THEY DID THINGS ON PRECISION BASIS AND IF THEY DID THINGS BY THEIR INSTINCTS AND INTUITION THEY WOULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES.BUT THEY DEAL WITH SO MANY . TRIVIALITIES UNTILL THEY HAVE GOTTEN SO...(AIN'T)WORTH TWO CENTS AND A HALF.AIN'T WORTH TWO CENTS AND A HALF.INTELLIGENT.AND GOT MINDS AND BRAINS AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THEY GOT TIME TO MAKE MISTAKES?I DON'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE NO MISTAKES.I'M TOO BUSY MOVING FORWARD.AND I REQUIRE EVERY MAN TO BE LIKE THAT.BLACK, WHITE,YELLOW.I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY ARE.I DON'T CARE IF THEY AIN'T GOT NO EDUCATION.I DO NOT WANT NO MISTAKES FROM MANIALL THESE NATIONS.THEY BETTER GET THEMSELVES TOGETHER.I'M ASKING SO MANY MUSICIANS IF THEY CAN DO THINGS.THEY IS NOT DOING THEIR DUTY.THEY NOT DOING(IT).EVERY MAN OUGHT TO DO WHAT HE CAN DO BEST.DO HIS VERY BEST.AND AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE LAGGIN' AROUND AND GETTING BY AND GETTING OVER AND SNEAKING BY,HIDING UNDER A ROCK. GOD DIDN'T MAKE THEM LIKE THAT.AND GOD UNINTELLIGIBLE THEY AIN'T GOING TO BE LIKE THAT.I'D RATHER PUSH THE BUTTON MYSELF.BY REMOTE CONTROL.LET'S PUSH IT.GET RID OF THEM.THEY DON'T STAND FOR NOTHING.I HATE TO SEE A MAN THAT GOT SOMETHING TO OFFER AND (THEY'RE)OUT THERE DOING SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S ON A LOW,UNINTEL- LIGIBLE BASE...I HATE TO SEE THAT!IT'S INEXCUSABLE.I'M NOT GOD. AND I'M NOT THE DEVIL SO THEY AIN'T GOING TO PRAY TO ME.THEY NOT (GOING)TO ASK FOR NO FORGIVNESS.AND I WOULDN'T EVEN TAKE THE ENERGY AND THE TIME TO MAKE A UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR SOMETHING CALLED M-A-N.JUST GET RID OF THEM.LIKE THEY GET RID OF ROACHES.GET IN MY WAY THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.THEY GET RID OF ROACHES.THEY GET RID OF ANTS.THEY GET RID OF ANYTHING THAT GET IN THEIR WAY.NOW,I DON'T WANT MAN IN MY WAY.I GOT SOMETHING TO DO ON THIS PLANET... AND THEY BETTER STAY OUT OF MY WAY.I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY GOING. GOD DON'T WANT THEM AND THE DEVIL DON'T EITHER.SO THEY GOT TO FACE ME.THEY GOT TO FACE ME.IF THEY GO TO HELL I'LL BE SITTING RIGHT UP THERE AND SAY,'WELL,THOUGHT'S YOU WAS GETTING AWAY, DIDN'T YOU.' THEY NOT ESCAPING.I'M NOT GOING TO LET MAN THAT THE CREATOR MADE DISGRACE THE CREATOR.NOW,THEY DISGRACING HIM.THEY DISGRACING THEYSELVE.THEY AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT.BUT THEY BEEN GETTING BY.I GOT SOME NEWS FOR THEM.I'LL FIX IT SO LIFE WON'T WANT THEM AND DEATH EITHER.THEY GOT TO COME BACK BY ME. AND BE WHAT THEY SUPPOSED TO BE.EVERY ONE OF THEM.I DON'T CARE IF THEY IN THE GRAVE YARD.THEY GOT TO COME BACK BY ME.SOME IN THE FORM OF MAN.I KNOW WHAT MAN COULD HAVE DONE.SO HE HAD NO EXCUSE. IF I WASN'T'IN THE FORM OF MAN THEY'D HAVE EXCUSE.BUT I'VE ACHIEVED WONDERFUL THINGS.GOING TO ACHIEVE EVEN MORE AND THEREFORE THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF COLOR.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF RACE.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF NATION.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF RELIGION.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF SEX.MAN HAS NO EXCUSE! AND THEY DON'T HIM RUNNING TO GOD.THEY GET IN HIS ARMS.I SNATCH HIM OUT OF THERE.AND THEY BETTER NOT GO TO THE DEVIL.I SNATCH HIM OUT OF THERE AND SAY,'LOOK.FACE ME.'THAT IS FOR MAN.NOW,THEY CAN BELIEVE IT IF THEY WANT AND THEY CAN NOT BELIEVE IT.I DON'T CARE.I'M GETTING READY TO HAVE ME A GOOD TIME ON MAN'S ASS. (LAUGHTER) PETER HINDS:SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO START TO HAND OUT THOSE EVICTION NOTICES? SR:I'M THINKING ABOUT IT. JOHN HINDS:WELL,PETER CAN PRINT UP FIVE BILLION OF THEM.FIVE BILLION OUGHT TO DO IT. SR:I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.WHY, I'LL EVICT THEM OFF THE PLANET AND EVEN EVICT THEM OUT OF THE GRAVES.I DON'T CARE.AND I WANT TO SEE WHERE THEY'RE GOING.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE IN THERE GRAVES. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE NO MORE.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE BE- HIND RELIGION.NOT GOING TO HIDE BEHIND PHILOSOPHY.THEY AIN'T GOING TO HIDE BEHIND THEIR MENTAL CONDITIONS.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE BEHIND THEIR PHYSICAL CONDITIONS.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE FROM ME.I REFUSE TO ACCEPT MAN IN HIS PRESENT CONDITION. I AIN'T EVEN GOING TO SAY THEY(ARE)WRONG.I DON'T WANT TO INSULT WRONG.I DON'T EVEN WANT TO INSULT EVIL.THEY'RE NOT EVIL AND THEY'RE NOT GOOD.THEY AIN'T WORTH TWO CENTS AND A HALF.BLACK MAN IN PHILADELPHIA SAID THEY AIN'T WORTH TWO DEAD FLIES.HE SAID THAT ABOUT THE BLACK ONES.BUT THE WHITE ONES AIN'T NO GOOD EITHER ‘CAUSE THEY HAVEN'T CONQUERED NOTHING.GOT A BIG PLANET HERE. BEAUTIFUL PLANET.SITTING UP HERE BEING USED THE WRONG KIND OF WAY.AND ALL THESE PEOPLE HERE...THEY DON'T DO NOTHING EVERY DAY BUT THE SAME THING THAT'S BEEN DONE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. SOMETHING THAT'S INSIGNIFICANT.SOMETHING THAT'S DESTRUCTIVE. THAT'S NOT PROPER. JH:THEY SHOULD TRY SCRAPING THE POTENTIAL OF THINGS.INSTEAD OF JUST GOING AROUND IN A CIRCLE. SR:A LOT OF MEN CAN DO WONDERFUL THINGS.THEY SHUCKIN' AND JIVIN'. I'VE CAUGHT THEM.THEY JUST HALF DO THINGS.SOME MEN CAN'T DO THINGS.EUT THERE ARE A LOT OF MEN wHO CAN DO THINGS WHO HALF DO THINGS.NOW,THEY(ARE)SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING THE ONES wHO CAN'T... IF THEY COULD THEY wOULD.EUT THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR PART.AND THEY'RE NOT ENCOURAGING THOSE wHO ARE LIMI~ TED IN AEILITIES.THERE ARE SOME THAT'S LIMITED BUT ITS A POSSI- EILITY THEY COULD BE ENCOURAGED ENOUGH TO FINALLY REACH PAST THAT.BUT IT'S BAD FOR MAN wHO GOT THE POTENTIALS TO NOT USE THEM. IT'S wRONG. S - .-¢——.¢—-————-—._-pup:-—_...——-—.———-—.——a——--—._._——-—---—--—-—a—.—-—a-gs--:—.—-u——u——--—-—.—.———-—: SUN RA:THE CREATOR TOLD ME THAT MAN HAS FIVE MINUTES DURING THE DAY TO THINK.AFTER THAT HE SAY,'I DON'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THEM.'FIVE MINUTES DURING THE DAY HE SPEAKS CLEARLY.AND THAT'S WHERE THAT FIVE PERCENT COME IN. JOHN HINDS:FIVE PERCENT OF THE BRAIN? SR:UH HUH.IT'LL BE FIVE MINUTES.HE'LL SPEAK.YOU ASK HIM SOME- THING(AND)HE'LL BE VERY CLEAR AND IT WILL BE TRUTHFUL.IT WILL BE PROFOUND.IF YOU CAN CATCH THE FIVE MINUTES. I JH:THAT WOULD BE A TRICK. SR:YOU'VE GOT TO CATCH THAT FIVE MINUTES.OTHERWISE HE ONLY GOING TO REPEAT WHAT HE HEARD SOMEBODY ELSE SAY.WHAT HE READ.BUT THAT FIVE MINUTES HE'LL SPEAK WHAT HE FEELS.THAT'S THE DIFFICULTY.THAT GOES FOR THE RULERS,TOO.SO YOU SAYING,FIVE MINUTES TO THINK.AND THEY GOT TO VOTE ON SOMETHING.IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME FIVE MINUTES IT'S POSSIBLE,SOMETIME THAT COULD HAPPEN WHERE ALL OF THEM COULD HAVE THE SAME FIVE MINUTES.AND THEN SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN.JUST LIKE IN ENGLAND WHEN THEY WAS FIGHTING HITLER.SOME PEOPLE GOT TOGETHER AND JOINED HANDS UP THERE(AT)THE WHITE CLIFFS OF DOVER AND THEY WANTED(RUDOLPH)HESS TO LEAVE GERMANY.THEY FELT HE WAS THE BRAIN THEY HELD HANDS AND THEY TOLD HIM WHERE TO LAND. WHEN TO LEAVE AND HESS GOT INTO HIS PLANE AND HE CAME.HE LANDED WHERE THEY TOLD HIM AND THEY CAPTURED HIM.THEY WANTED THE SAME THING.AND,BASICALLY,THAT‘S WHY GERMANY LOST.WAS ON THE BRAIN. GONE.HE COULDN’T HELP HIMSELF.BECAUSE TWENTY OR MORE PEOPLE GOT TOGETHER AND HELD HANDS AND WISHED HIM OUT OF GERMANY.THAT JUST SHOW YOU WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN PEOPLE COOPERATE. JH:THAT'S AMAZING. PETER HINDS:HE'S STILL ALIVE,YOU KNOW. SR:YEAH.HE'S STILL ALIVE. PH:A PRISON FOR ONE. SR:YEAH,WELL,THAT'S THE WAY THEY DID IT.DID IT THROUGH THIS MIND THING.BUT,SEE,ALL THAT STUFF...I'VE RISEN UP ABOVE THAT.I'M NOT USING MY MIND.I'M USING MY SPIRIT.SO THE MIND STUFF...IT DOESN'T INTEREST ME.IT'S JUST THAT SPIRIT THAT I'M INTERESTED IN.SPIRIT BE GOING PLACES.CAN REACH THE CREATOR.CAN RUN OVER THERE AND UNINTELLIGIBLE WITH THE DEVIL(AND)COME OUT.CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS.IMPOSSIBLE THINGS.THAT'S ALL I KNOW ABOUT.THAT'S THE REASON I LOOK AT MEN NOW...I'M REALLY QUITE ASTOUNDED. MY SPIRIT BE LOOKING AT THEM.AND THEY MIGHT BE ALL RIGHT TO THE WORLD BUT TO ME THEY'RE NO GOOD.BUT ALL OF THIS...WHAT'S HAPPEN- ING ON THIS PLANET...THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT'S GOING TO RISE UP ABOVE THIS.SOME OF THEM ARE GOING TO DO IT.IT'S GOT TO BE NOW,TOO.IT'S GOT TO BE NOW. JH:YEAH.IT'S ABOUT TIME. SR:BUT,ACTUALLY,I DON'T WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.I MIGHT BE HOLDING UP THE DESTINY OF THE WORLD.'CAUSE I'M NOT A MINISTER OR NOTHING LIKE THAT.THEY GOT THEIR LEADERS AND THEY GOT THEIR RE- LIGION AND ALL...I'M NOT SUPPOSED...AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED I'M NOT TO SUPPOSED TO INTERFERE WITH WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT AND WRONG.IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.BUT THERE'S SOME KIND OF BEING THAT SAY,'WELL,INTERFERE ANYWAY.'INTERFERE ANYWAY.THAT'S WHAT I SAID IN SANTA CRUZ.TEENAGER.I WAS TALKING TO HIM.I SAY,'WELL,YOU KNOW, THE POINT IS THE GENERATION AHEAD OF YOU AND BEFORE,THEY DIDN'T PREPARE A W3AY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO SURVIVE.AND YOU LOST ‘CAUSE YOU AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO HOLD ONTO.YOU CAN'T LOOK TO THEM.THEY DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS COMING LIKE THIS SO THEY DIDN'T PREPARE NO WAY TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO.THEY DIDN'T PREPARE THAT.AND THEY MIGHT HAVE PREPARED SOME MONEY FOR YOU AND SOME POWER AND ALL THAT.BUT THEY DID NOT PREPARE A PATH FOR YOU TO SURVIVE.AND YOU(ARE)JUST HERE,YOU KNOW.JUST HERE.I SAID BUT I SAW ALL OF THAT YEARS AGO.AND I DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN WHAT YOUR PARENTS DID AND WHAT YOUR LEADERS DID.I DID NOT PARTICIPATE BECAUSE I KNEW THEY WAS COMING TO THIS.I SAW THAT.AND I DIDN'T GO THAT WAY. SO HE(THE TEENAGER)SAID...I SAID,'THEREFORE,SINCE I DIDN'T REALLY LIVE OR PARTICIPATE IN WHAT THEY DID,THAT GENERATION,I DON'T HAVE NO PART IN THIS PLANET.AND I'M NOT...IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.I DON'T HAVE TO INTERFERE.THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES.I DIDN'T LIVE MINE. I STAYED OUT OF IT.HE SAID(THE TEENAGER),BUT,YOU HAVE TO.YOU HAVE TOO.' JH:IT TAKES GUTS,THOUGH,TO STAND OUT,YOU KNOW.MOST PEOPLE PLAY IT SAFETHEY'RE NOT GOING TO STAND OUT AND TAKE A STAND. SR:IN MY CASE IT DOESN'T 'CAUSE I...WHAT I'M DEALING WITH IS SO IT'S INCREDIBLE.LIKE FOR INSTANCE,WHEN I WROTE THIS LETTER TO FRANCE AND I SAID,WELL,DON'T PUT OFF YOUR CULTURAL PROGRAMS.THIS CREATIVE PROGRAM UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR NEXT YEAR.DO IT NOW.USE MUSIC TO STAND FRANCE AND ITS POSSIBLE PLACE IN THE WORLD.MUSIC CAN SOOTHE THE SAVAGE BEAST(SIC).AND YOU GOT A SAVAGE BEAST OUT THERE WITH HIJACKS AND ALL.USE THAT MUSIC AND DO IT NOW.USE THE BEST YOU GOT IN ART.AND WHAT DID(THEY)DO?TALKING ABOUT l987.LOOK AT FRANCE.THAT MIGHT BE COINCIDENCE.BUT I TOLD THEM,I SAID, DO IT NOW.DON'T WAIT.'CAUSE YOU ARE FACING ANARCHY.AND THEY WAITED. WELL,WE GET THEIR BUREACRACY.YOU KNOW.NINETEEN EIGHTY SEVEN.LOOK AT THEM NOW.SO I KNOW WHAQT I'M TALKING ABOUT.THEY HAD A CHOICE. NOW THEY GOT ME SCARED TO COME OVER THERE.THE BUREACRATS,THEY DIDN'T SAY COME NOW.THEN I WOULD HAVE SAID NO.YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT WHEN I TOLD YOU.YOU SEE,THEY HESITATED BECAUSE THE FELLOW I SENT,THAT WAS OVER THERE REPRESENTING ME,THEY DIDN'T LIKE HIM.THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE WALKED.THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE TALKED.THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE DRESSED.AND THEY TOOK THE FIRST PROPOSAL AND THREW IT IN THE WASTE BASKET AND SAID,WELL,SUN RA CAN JUST COME.SO DANNY(THOMPSON)WENT OVER THERE. BUT,SEE,IN THE MEANTIME THEM OTHER FORCES GOT THEMSELVES TOGETHER WHILE THEY WAS WAITING. JH:AND SET IT BACK TO EIGHTY SEVEN. SR:THEY SET IT BACK AND NOW THEY IN TROUBLE.IT'S SO BAD IN FRANCE...I WAS TALKING TO SOME DANCERS...DANCER,SHE SAIS,PLEASE GET ME OUT OF FRANCE.SHE SAY THE NEWSPAPERS AND THE TV AND THE RADIO ARE NOT TELLING HALF THE TRUTHS.IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO DE- SCRIBE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN PARIS.GET OUT OF THERE.SHE STAYED THERE,YOU KNOW.SHE'S A FRENCH CITIZEN.SHE SAID THEY'RE NOT TELLING HALF THE TRUTH.SO THERE MUST BE A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING THERE THAT THEY DON'T EVEN PUT IN THE PAPER.ALL KINDS OF ATTACKS IN OTHER SMALLER PLACES.GOT TO BE 'CAUSE HOW COULD SHE SAY IT'S WORSE THAN...IN FACT,WHEN DANNY WENT OVER THERE HE WAS ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN.SOMEBODY GOT ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN AND GOT OFF AND LEFT A PACKAGE THERE.EVERYBODY CAME IN AND NOBODY BOTHERED(THE PACKAGE).DANNY WATCHED IT.HE FINALLY GOT HIGHLY DISTURBED.HE WENT AND TOLD THE CONDUCTOR.WHEN THE CONDUCTOR CAME BACK THERE AND SAW IT HE STOPPED THE TRAIN.THEY HAD EVERYBODY GET OFF OR SOMETHING. AND THEN DANNY READ IN THE PAPER ABOUT THEY FOUND A BOMB THAT HADN'T EXPLODED.SO SEE?GO ON THAT TRAIN.SO THEN HE HAD TO COME HOME...HE CAME ON BACK HERE.AFTER THAT HE HAD TO GET OUT OF PARIS.HE WAS OVER THERE NEGOTIATING FOR ME BUT NOW WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.WE SUPPOSED TO GO THERE AND PLAY FOR AN ANNIVERSARY FOR A PLACE BUT,YOU KNOW,THAT...I DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT 'CAUSE THEY IN TROUBLE NOW.I TOLD THEM YOU'RE ON THE DEFENSE WITH THIS MUSIC.DANNY.WHEN YOU WERE ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN IN PARIS.WHAT HAPPENED? DANNY THOMPSON:WELL,THEY HAD THIS...I SAW THIS BAG.BRAND NEW BAG. I GOT ON THERE IT WAS LAYING UP UNDER THE SEAT,YOU KNOW.IT WAS LIKE SITTING UP BY THE DOOR.SO THIS GUY IS SITTING THERE.I THOUGHT IT WAS HIS.SO HE GOT OFF AND I DIDN'T REALLY NOTICE IT 'TILL I LOOKED BACK IN.I SAID NOW SOMEBODY ELSE IS ON AND THE BAG SITTING THERE.AND THEY GOT OFF AND WITH NOBODY SITTING THERE AND THE BAG WAS THERE.JUST ME ON THIS CAR,YOU KNOW.IT KEPT GOING AND GOING.I GOT TO MY STOP.I SAID,YOU NOW WHAT?I THINK SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS BAG'CAUSE IT'S A_BRAND NEW BAG.IT WAS A BIG BAG. IT WAS LIKE THIS.I SAID SOMETHING WRONG.SO I GOT OFF AT MY STOP AND I RAN AND TOLD THE CONDUCTOR.I WAS ABOUT TWO CARS UP AND, YOU KNOW,HE DIDN'T SPEAK ANY ENGLISH BUT I THINK HE UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS A BOMB OR THERE WAS SOME BAG ON THERE THAT WASN'T...DIDN'T BELONG TO WHAT IT BELONGED TO.AND HE SAID,'OH! WHY,I GOT ONE MORE-STOP!SEE YOU1ZOO0M!(SUN RA LAUGHS)SO I READ ON THE NEWS THAT NIGHT THAT THERE WAS A BOMB FOUND ON THE SUB- WAY.I TOLD HIM.HEY,THERE'S A BAG THERE.NOBODY AROUND.HE SAID. UH OH.'(SUN RA LAUGHS) CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . . . . . . . . . .. OCTOBER 1,1986...KONCEPTS...OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:I CAME FROM A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WERE MORE SOCIAL,I SUPPOSE.BIRMINGHAM.THEY HAD A LOT OF SOCIAL CLUBS THERE.I MEAN NOT BARS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.I MEAN,ACTUAL INDIVIDUALS.THEY DIDN'T HAVE A BUILDING OR NOTHING LIKE THAT.THEY JUST HAD THEIR DIFFERENT SOCIAL CLUBS.AND THEY'D HAVE FUNCTIONS.EACH CLUB WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TWICE A YEAR(AND)INVITE THE OTHER CLUBS.AND THEY'D BE DRESSED.AND THAT'S THE WAY I WAS RAISED UP.I WOULD PLAY WITH THEM AND THEY'D BE DRESSED.THEY'D HAVE THEIR STUFF ON.EACH CLUB WOULD BE TRYING TO OUTDO THE OTHER IN CLOTHES AND THEN THEY'D HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A FUND RAISING THING.THEY'D HAVE TWO THINGS. THE ONE THEY WOULDN'T DRESS.BUT THE MAIN ONE WAS SOMETHING ELSE. IT WAS BEAUTIFUL...I NEVER PLAYED IN ANY BARS OR NOTHING...I PLAYED JUST FOR THEM.SO THEN I KNEW A LOT OF DANCE NUMBERS.THEY KNEW ALL THOSE MUSICAL UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY DANCED...A NICE, IARISTOCRATIC SOCIAL...THAT WAS THE WAY IT WAS.AND THEY'D HAVE THEM EVERY WEEK.EVERY WEEK YOU'D GO TO PROBABLY TWO AFFAIRS'CAUSE SOME AFFAIRS WERE,LIKE,THE LESSER ONES.THEY HAD THEIR AFFAIRS, TOO.THEY WERE JUST BUILDING THEMSELVES UP.BUT THEY HAD NICE AFFAIRS.IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT THE MORE AMAZED I AM THAT I WAS IN THAT ENVIRONMENT,YOU KNOW. JOHN HINDS:SO THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK FOR YOU IN BIRMINGHAM.YOU WERE ALWAYS PLAYING AND PLAYING AND PLAYING. sR:YEA§. JH:AND LIKE YOU WERE SAYING THE OTHER NIGHT.IT WASN'T ALL FOR BLACK FOLKS,TOO.THERE WAS THAT WHITE GUY WHO PHONED YOU UP AND THE BLACK MUSICIANS UNION SAID YOU DON'T WANT HIM(SUN RA)AND HE PHONED YOU BACK AND SAID NO,NO,I DO WANT YOU.'CAUSE YOU ARE THE BEST BAND WE'VE GOT. ; SR:YEAH.THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.BUT I HAD A LOT OF JEALOUSIES,YOU KNOW.HAD THE BEST BAND WITHOUT QUESTION.MADE THE OTHER BANDS JEALOUS'CAUSE,YOU SEE,THEY HAD GOOD BANDS BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOBODY THAT COULD ARRANGE BACK THEN. THAT'S WHAT DID THE TRICK.IT WAS THE HEAD ARRANGEMENTS.THEY COULDN'T PLAY THEM WITHOUT ME SO THAT WAS IT AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS TODAY.IF I LET SOMEBODY HAVE SOME OF THESE ARRANGEMENTS... IF I'M NOT THERE...NOBODY PLAYS PIANO THE WAY I'M PLAYING IT,SEE. THEIR TOUCH IS DIFFERENT.AND,THEREFORE,THE ARRANGEMENTS WOULDN'T SOUND...IT'S JUST LIKE DUKE.YOU KNOW.SINCE HE BEEN GONE THEY HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN ABLE TO GET A PIANO PLAYER THAT COULD MAKE THE BAND SOUND LIKE HE DID. I 5.. JH:YEAH.WELL,HE HAD A SPECIAL TOUCH JUST LIKE YOU.JUST ONE NOTE. AND THAT'S KIND OF FUNNY ON A PIANO THAT'S A MECHANICAL INSTRU- MENT.YOU'RE NOT EVEN TOUCHING THE STRING BUT YET,BANG AND YOU CAN TELL IT'S DUKE.YOU CAN TELL IT'S YOU,YOU KNOW.THAT DOESN'T COME OVER NIGHT. SR:YEAH.WELL,IT'S OUT IN THE OPEN NOW.PEOPLE CAN COMPARE.THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING TO COMPARE.OR THEY COULDN'T DISCRIMINATE. THEY HAD TO GO BY WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE SAID.NOW THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT NO MORE.THEY HEAR FOR THEMSELVES. ’ JH:DID YOU EVER DO ANY RECORDING WITH THOSE BANDS? SR:WELL,FOR TWO YEARS I DID SOMETHING FOR RIPPLE TOBACCO EVERY DAY. JH:THAT'S A COMPANY THAT'S...I DON'T THINK AROUND ANY MORE. SR:DEEP SOUTH.IT WAS ON THE RADIO EVERY DAY.NOON. PETER HINDS:LIVE BROADCAST? SR:LIVE RHYTHM AND BLUES BROADCAST.I WAS THE ARRANGER FOR THEM. AND PLAYING WITH THEM. PH:LATE THIRTIES? SR:SOMETHING LIKE THAT. JH:AND THAT WAS A BROADCAST OUT OF_BIRMINGHAM? SR:IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BROADCAST IN OTHER SOUTHERN CITIES,TOO. JH:SO YOU'D GO DOWNTOWN TO THE RADIO STATION? SR:EVERY DAY. JH:THAT'S SOME EXPERIENCE. SR:YEAH.AND THE FELLOWS IN THE QUARTET,THEY COULDN'T READ,YOU KNOW,MUSIC SO I HAD TO ARRANGE FOR THEM BY EAR YOU MIGHT SAY. JH:AND THEN THEY'D HAVE TO MEMORIZE IT? SR:YEAH.THEY DID A GOOD JOB. JH:THAT'S WHAT'S AMAZING ABOUT SOME OF THOSE FLETCHER HENDERSON THINGS.HEAD ARRANGEMENTS.YOU KNOW,THAT ARE JUST...THEY'RE SO INTRICATE AND BEAUTIFUL.... SR:FANTASTIC. JH:AND THEY'RE HEAD ARRANGEMENTS£WASN'T ANY MUSIC UNTILL... SR:THEY'D HUM THE PARTS. JH:IS THAT HOW IT WOULD GO BACK THEN?HUM IT. SR:YEAH.I MEAN,WHEN I FIRST STARTED TO PLAYING NOBODY HAD TO TELL ME TOO MUCH.I’D HEAR SOMETHING(AND)PLAY IT.AND THEY'D PUT THE HARMONY TO IT.THAT'S THE WAY TRUE JAZZ IS DONE.LIKE THAT.THE WORLD JUST CATCHING UP WITH ME'CAUSE THEY HAD A LOT OF CHROMATICS IN THERE THAT,SEEMINGLY,DIDN'T BELONG IN THE CHORD.....THAT'S THE REASON JAZZ IS DIFFERENT.'CAUSE THEY WASN'T LEARNING IT IN SCHOOL.THEY PLAYED WHAT THEY HEARD AND THEY HEARD STRANGE HARMONIES.AND THAT'S THE REASON FLETCHER SOUNDS SO GOOD BECAUSE THEY GOT THESE HARMONIES IN THERE.THEY AIN'T LIKE NOBODY ELSES. THE HARMONIES ARE FANTASTIC. JH:THAT ALWAYS AMAZES ME.THOUGH,WHEN YOU CHECK IT OUT.THAT'S A HEAD ARRANGEMENT!AND IT'S SO COMPLEX AND SO TOGETHER.IT'S AMAZING. SR:THEY COULD WRITE JUST FOR THE FIRST ALTO PART.AND EVERYBODY ' ELSE PLAY THEIR PART.THEY'D PLAY THE HARMONY.IT'S BEAUTIFUL. .JH:WOULD THAT BE KIND OF A STANDARD APPROACH?WOULD THE TENOR THINK I'LL TAKE THE THIRD?OR WOULD THEY JUST LISTEN AND JUST ADD IT IN AND WORK IT OUT?WAS IT SOME KIND OF ARRANGEMENT CON- CEPT? 'SR:IT WAS SOME KIND OF FEELING LIKE THEY HAD THIS CLOSED CIRCUIT OF MUSICIANS WHO PLAYED THAT WAY.IT WAS A CLOSED CIRCUIT.NOT EVERYBODY COULD FIT IN THAT BAND.THEY MIGHT BE JUST STARTING BUT IF THEY HAD THE FEELING FLETCHER WOULD HIRE THEM....THAT'S-THE REASON HE KEPT ME.'CAUSE I WAS DOING SOMETHING ELSE.STUFF SMITH SAID SO,TOO.COLEMAN HAWKINS,TOO.THEY SAID I WAS DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.AND THEY SAID THEY COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY I HADN'T BEEN DISCOVERED.THAT'S WHAT STUFF SAID.HE SAID,'ONE DAY THEY WILL.BUT I'M AMAZED THAT THEY HAVEN'T.'ONE TIME I WAS PLAYING PIANO FOR A GIRL WHO WAS TAKING AN AUDITION.JOHN HAMMOND. JH:IS THAT RIGHT?AND JOHN HAMMOND LET YOU SLIP THROUGH HIS FINGERS? SR:I WAS PLAYING SOMETHING UNDER HER FOR HER TO SING AND ALL AT ONCE HE JUMPED UP AND CAME OVER AND LOOKED AT ME AND SAID,'PLAY THAT AGAIN.'AND HE ALMOST WOKE UP.HE DIDN'T WAKE UP.WELL,HE DIDN'T HIRE THE SINGER.(CONTINUED NEXT ISSUE). :2n:.;'¢-x.:.2;~..-_.- I . ~ -... ._ . ‘ -= " ,4.-_,...wa.«-.:.:...4.*=v.xv_-.~‘;'.;'..,.A,._.. I _‘.g.g,.,._.,,_,< __ ‘V _ a *- . S E” H . C. M T. E. W... A. E B _A_ /.5 ,/// : Friday, Saturday & SLznday;:4.niJtesE // 1; I A I . ; E I , :0/V5 WORLD FAM/L Y ’, /?.*/my//’.':/)/2' 11! //.'Ls'reOY/'/I 8:’/'/\O:c§;'f/2" n I E i I I 21,:///IIIIIII I I I\\\\\\\\\i\. 3' ADVERTISEMENT FOR SUN RA'S CONCERTS AT THE ONE WORLD FAMILY CENTER IN BERKELEY,CALIF. OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER l974.NOW THE SITE OF AMOEBA RECORDS. DENZIL MCNEELANCE MAASHALL ALLEN NEW YORK 1991 PHOTO:RICHARD MAYEDA PHOTOGRAPH OF SUN RA FROM THE EARLY TO MID FIFTIES. . . FIRST PUBLISHED IN OTTO FLUCKINGER'SV JAZZ STATISTICS IN MARCH 196l.SUPPLIED BY HARTMUT GEERKEN. Now": DON’T WANTMAN INMY wAv. I c.oT soMETHINcTo no oNTHIs PLANET. . . AN|>*’THEv BETTER STAY our OFTMY WAY. I» DON'T «Now wHEnETHEv ao|N<.. cop DON'T WANT THEM AND THE DEVIL DON'T T ‘ AE|TLHAEIz_;’ so THEY aoT To EA<EME. THEY aoigm EAEEME. IF THEY so To HELL l’|.L BE s|TTINamgHT up THE RE AND SAY, ‘WE LL, ETHOIJQGHTSIAYOU wAs GETTING AwAv, DIDNJTYOUP THEY NoT ESCAPING. I'M NOT coA|NT“aT To LET THAT THE CREATOR MADE DISGRACE THE <nEATon. suN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-12
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 13 (September, 1997)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1997-09-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: -3 1 '3 f E S CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND_PETER‘HINDS.. . . . . . . . . . . .. OCTOBER 1,1986...KONCEPTS...OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA.....Q....;.‘ . . . . . .. CONTINUED PROM ISSUE TWELVE . . . . ... . . . . . .; . . . . ....;..; . . . . . . . . . . .. JOHN-HINDS:AND HE DIDN'T "DISCOVER YOU OR ELEVATE YOU_TO....'I SUN RA:HE HEARD SOMETHING AND HE WAS SURPRISED.SOMETHING I PLAYED.SO THAT'S THE WAY IT'S STANDING NOW. JH:NOW,WHERE WAS THAT? SR:THAT wAS IN NEw YORK CITY.DOwN IN THE VILLAGE.SPRING'STREET_OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.IN ORNETTE COLEMAN'S PLACE. . I % JH:SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE 1960 OR 61? SR; WELL,IT WAS WHEN ORNETTE COLEMAN HAD HIS STUDIO IN NEW YORK.IT WAS THEN.HE TRIED.IN A SENSE,HE DIDN'T MAKE IT IN NEW YORK.HE UNINTELLIGIBLE LIKE THE GUGGENHEIM AND,YOU KNOW,ART PLACES.BUT AS FAR AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS CONCERNED,UNINTELLIGIBLE.'CAUSE HE NEVER DID PLAY PLACES LIKE SWEET BASIL.BUT HE CHANGED. I HEAR HE'S ...
Show more-3 1 '3 f E S CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND_PETER‘HINDS.. . . . . . . . . . . .. OCTOBER 1,1986...KONCEPTS...OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA.....Q....;.‘ . . . . . .. CONTINUED PROM ISSUE TWELVE . . . . ... . . . . . .; . . . . ....;..; . . . . . . . . . . .. JOHN-HINDS:AND HE DIDN'T "DISCOVER YOU OR ELEVATE YOU_TO....'I SUN RA:HE HEARD SOMETHING AND HE WAS SURPRISED.SOMETHING I PLAYED.SO THAT'S THE WAY IT'S STANDING NOW. JH:NOW,WHERE WAS THAT? SR:THAT wAS IN NEw YORK CITY.DOwN IN THE VILLAGE.SPRING'STREET_OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.IN ORNETTE COLEMAN'S PLACE. . I % JH:SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE 1960 OR 61? SR; WELL,IT WAS WHEN ORNETTE COLEMAN HAD HIS STUDIO IN NEW YORK.IT WAS THEN.HE TRIED.IN A SENSE,HE DIDN'T MAKE IT IN NEW YORK.HE UNINTELLIGIBLE LIKE THE GUGGENHEIM AND,YOU KNOW,ART PLACES.BUT AS FAR AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS CONCERNED,UNINTELLIGIBLE.'CAUSE HE NEVER DID PLAY PLACES LIKE SWEET BASIL.BUT HE CHANGED. I HEAR HE'S CHANGING OVER TO ROCK AND DIFFERENT THINGS NOW.I HEARD THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW TRUE IT IS. JH:THINGS SEEM TO BE REALLY MOVING AHEAD AS FAR AS PEOPLE BECOMING AWARE OF YOU.IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE GETTING MORE WRITE UPS. ' SR:THE COSMO DRUMMER IS ME,YOU KNOW.IF THEY CAN TAKE IT... JOHN GILMORE:THAT WAS HEAVY TONIGHT.THE COSMO DRUMMER WAS HEAVY.HE WAS HEAVY.HE STARTED OFF HEAVY. SR:'CAUSE THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING.ABOUT PSYCHIC THINGS. JH:WHAT KIND OF THINGS ARE YOU THINKING OF? SR:IT'S JUST REACHING INTO THE EMPTY AIR AND FEELING wHAT YOU HEAR.IT's WHAT YOU SEE WITH YOUR MIND'S EYE.AND YOU SPEAK THAT.AND KEEP ON MOvING.AND ONCE YOU SPEAK IT IT BECOMES YOUR wAY.I MEAN,YOU HAVE TO POLLOw THAT PATH.UNTILL YOU CHANGE. (AT THIS POINT SUN RA PALLS ASLEEP POR FOURTY SECONDS) YEAH I GOT A LOT OP IDEAS NOw.PRACTICALLY ALL THOSE ARRANGEMENTS MIGHT BE CHANGED.(I)HEAR SOMETHING ELSE.THAT'S THE REASON I'M PLAYING GONE WITH THE wIND BUT ONCE'CAUSE I HEAR SOMETHING ELSE. THAT MAKES IT DIPPICULT FOR THE FELLOWS IN THE EAND.THEY LEARN A SONG AND ALL AT ONCE,EOOM.IT CHANGE.THE wHOLE THING CHANGE.IT'S HARD. PM - —..—..——.-.——--_—..._———————._..__...-.-_._————-.--.—..—.—n——¢.—.—.———.————..-.——¢—---—--——c-—.——¢—.—— JOHN HINDS:NOW,IN CHICAGO I WAS READING THAT THING(ARTICLE)AND IT WAS SAYING THAT YOU WERE STAYING IN A HOTEL AND YOU STAYED IN YOUR ROOM FOR A MONTH AND YOU HAD CONTACT WITH EXTRATERRESTIALS. IS THAT CORRECT?OR SUPERIOR BEINGS THAT NOTIFIED YOU.NOW,WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?YOU DECIDED JUST TO GO INTO YOUR ROOM AND TRY AND MAKE CONTACT? SUN RA:WELL,IT'S JUST PLAYING WITH FEELING.JUST BEING.IT ISN'T ABOUT CONTACT NOW.ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. JH:YEAH.BUT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT.IT WAS KIND OF INTERESTING.MORE THAN JUST KIND OF INTERESTING(LAUGHS). SR:IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.AND THIS SOMETHING ELSE IS GETTING READY TO KNOCK ON EVERYBODY'S DOOR.IT'S SOMETHING ELSE.MORE FRIGHTFUL THAN DEATH,REALLY.BECAUSE IT'S NOT DEATH.IT'S NOT LIFE, EITHER.BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FACE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT LIFE AND NOT DEATH.THEY NEVER HAD TO FACE THAT BEFORE. 'CAUSE THEY COULD EQUATE.THEY COULD EQUATE DEATH....THIS IS SOMETHING THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO EQUATE.AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND JOHN HINDS...SEPTEMBER 30,1986..... ONE AM...NEW GEORGE'S...SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO HAVE PEOPLE WITH ME WHO ARE OBEDIENT BECAUSE THEIR SAFETY IS AT STAKE.LIKE,WE WAS GETTING READY TO GO...I TOLD DANNY(THOMPSON),I SAID LET'S GO ACROSS THIS BRIDGE HERE AND GO ACROSS THE STREET(MEANT TO SAY BRIDGE)INSTEAD OF GOING ACROSS THE STREET'CAUSE I SAID THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC THERE.DANNY SAY,WELL,WE PUSHED FOR TIME AND IT'S QUICKER ACROSS THE STREET SO HERE HE GO ACROSS THE STREET ALMOST HALF A BLOCK AHEAD OF ME.WIDE STREET.AND THIS BUS WAS GETTING READY TO TURN THE CORNER'CAUSE GREG(?)WAS WITH ME AND I SAW THE BUS HAD A LOT OF ROOM TO TURN...IT WAS A BIG BUS.SO IT WASN'T GOING TO BOTHER US BECAUSE THERE WAS PLENTY OF ROOM TO WALK THERE...IT WASN'T NO SIDEWALK.THE CARS WAS THERE PARKED BUT ALL AT ONCE I TOLD GREG, I SAID,RUN BACKWARDS.HE DIDN'T ASK WHY.HE JUST STEPPED BACK... AND THEN THE BUS HIT THE FIRST CAR.WHEN IT HIT THE FIRST CAR IT PUSHED THE OTHER CARS UP-BAM,BAM,BAM,BAM.SEE.AND WE WOULD HAVE GOT ,YOU KNOW.IF I HAD TOLD HIM(TO)GO BETWEEN THE CARS(AND)I DID NOT SAY,RUN BACKWARDS,AND THAT'S HOW CLOSE IT WAS IN EGYPT. ALL THE PEOPLE CAME RUNNING ACROSS THE STREET.THEY THOUGHT(FOR) SURE I WAS HURT.THAT BIG OLD BUS.AND THAT BUS KEPT GOING.LIKE THE MAN IN IT WAS NOT EVEN DRIVING IT.,CAUSE THEM FORCES CAN TAKE A MAN AND THEY JUST...THAT'S THE WAY THEY BE DOING(TO) PEOPLE IN ACCIDENTS.THEY TAKE OVER THEM PEOPLE AND THEN BAMl PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN AWARE OF IT.AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. HE WASN'T EVEN AWARE THAT HE'D HIT THAT FIRST CAR.AND HE HIT THE NEXT ONE.BAM,BAM,BAMlAND EVERYBODY TOLD US...THIS DANCER TO GO BETWEEN THE CARS. § § —~ .- «-—-A ~ - .. ...-.....-...-«~=._,«... . . -. _ ‘ ,‘__,'_ _,_,_ _v_Ar:_ :S\ ~;wx‘\-,:.yL~ *4- INTERVIEW WITH DALE WILLIAMS....SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA......... NOVEMBER 11,1996........... . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . ...... . . . . ........... PETER HINDS:HOW DID YOU MEET SUN RA?HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?YOU WERE FIFTEEN YEARS OLD IN CHICAGO. DALE WILLIAMS:I THINK I MET HIM AT THE JAZZ SHOWCASE'CAUSE THEY WOULD LET KIDS IN.AND ME AND MY BEST FRIEND,OSCAR BROWN THE THIRD,WENT TO THE SHOW AND I GUESS THAT MUST HAVE BEEN MAYBE 72 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.'CAUSE WE WERE REAL LITTLE.WE HAD TO GO TO THE FIRST SHOW. PH:WAS THIS IN THE AFTERNOON? DW:NO.IT WAS EARLY EVENING.AND THE GUY KNEW US 'CAUSE WE WERE THE ONLY TWO KIDS IN CHICAGO THAT WENT TO JAZZ CONCERTS.AND THEN I WAS PLAYING WITH OSCAR BROWN JR.AND I CAME TO PHILADELPHIA SO HE (SUN RA)GAVE ME HIS NUMBER AND CAME BY TO SEE ME AT THE SHOW AND THEN I WENT BY THE HOUSE.AND THEN I FELL ASLEEP AND THEN EARLY IN THE MORNING HE HAD THIS STAR MACHINE AND HE THREW THE STARS UP ON THE CEILING AND WE HAD A CONVERSATION AND PLAYED.AND THEN,I _THINK,AFTER THAT,THE NEXT DAY... V PH:WAS HE PLAYING PIANO OR SOME KEYBOARD? DW:HE WAS PLAYING A CRUMAR.THE NEXT DAY OR SOMEWHERE IN THAT VICINITY AFTER DOING...I WAS IN NEW YORK AND PHILADELPHIA A LOT AT THAT TIME PLAYING WITH OSCAR BROWN JR.AND,I THINK,THE FIRST GIG I DID WAS THE ANTIQUE BLACKS(ALBUM)AND THAT WAS THE RECORD THEY HAD. PH:HAD YOU REHEARSED A LITTLE BIT PRIOR TO THAT? DW:NO.WE JUST SAT AROUND AND TALKED AND VIBED BECAUSE I CAME UP PRETTY MUCH IN THE CHICAGO TRADITION OF BLUES AND JAZZ ARTISTS THERE.PROBABLY THE LAST OF THAT KIND OF SCHOOL WHERE BEING INFLUENCED...I WAS INFLUENCED BY SUN RA EVEN BEFORE I MET HIM. AND ANOTHER GROUP I PLAYED WITH WAS CALLED THE PHAROAHS AND PHIL COHRAN.AND I WAS DOING MY OWN SHOWS.I HAD MY OWN BAND THEN CALLED DEEP SPACE AND WE PLAYED SUN RA TUNES AND FREE STUFF WHILE WE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL.LIKE,I USED TO PLAY ASTRO BLACK A LOT.UNMASK THE BATMAN.THIS PLANET THREE.USED TO DO THAT ONE A LOT.ROCKET NUMBER NINE TO VENUS.THAT WAS PART OF MY HIGH SCHOOL BAND.THAT WAS OUR REPERTOIRE THAT WE WOULD PLAY AT THE TALENT SHOWS.WE'D BRING OUT THESE GUYS THAT WERE MUCH OLDER THAN US TO PLAY TO PLAY SAXOPHONE.I REMEMBER ONE TALENT SHOW THEY TRIED TO SHUT ME DOWN AND I HAD ALL THESE GUYS COMING OFF THE STREETS PLAYING SAXOPHONE AND HOLDING THE CURTAINS AND PLAYING ALL OVER THE PRINCIPAL. ' (LAUGHS)MADE A REALLY BIG IMPACT AT KENWOOD HIGH,THERE. u 9 WE HAD OUR OWN SPACE SUITS AND EVERYTHING.BUT I ALSO SOLD FLUTES AND PAN PIPES THERE AND HARPS.IN CHICAGO I USED TO MAKE INSTRU- MENTS.SO THEN I STARTED PLAYING WITH HIM(SUN RA),I GUESS IT WAS RIGHT AFTER I PLAYED WITH LITTLE MILTON ’CAUSE I WAS PLAYING WITH OSCAR AND I WAS JUST STARTING TO DO BIG TOURS THEN.'CAUSE THE FIRST GIG WITH OSCAR WAS WITH MILES DAVIS. PH:WHERE WAS THIS? DW:IN CHICAGO.AND THAT WAS ABOUT FOUR MONTHS BEFORE I CAME OUT HERE(1974). PH:WAS MILES A BIG INFLUENCE ON YOU AT THAT TIME? DW:YEAH.I DUG MILES.I DUG MILES A LOT.I EVEN WENT TO VISIT HIM ONCE AND SAT AROUND AND TALKED WITH HIM. PH:WHERE WAS THIS? DW:IN NEW YORK WHEN HE STAYED ON 77TH STREET. PH:WHAT YEAR WAS THIS? DW:MAYBE 75 OR 76.1 JUST KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR.BUT I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH HIS NEPHEW VINCE WILBURN.VINCE,RANDY(HALL) AND I ALL HUNG OUT. PH:HOW LONG WERE YOU WITH SUN RA7 DW:I WAS WITH SUN RA QUITE A BIT EXCEPT I TOOK OTHER GIGS LIKE OSCAR(BROWN)OR I DID LITTLE MILTON.I ALWAYS DID SOME THINGS FOR VARIETY.AND THEN I PLAYED FOR BYARD LANCASTER.AT THAT AGE I WOULD GO TO A CITY AND CAMP OUT.I WAS IN NEW YORK FOR A WHILE.JUST SORT OF THERE AND THEN I WOULD COME DOWN FOR REHEARSAL OR STAY AT THE HOUSE(SUN RA'S HOUSE AT 5626 MORTON STREET IN PHILADELPHIA).AND I DID A LOT OF THE EAST COAST STUFF.BALTIMORE AND ALL THAT.AND THEN EVERY NOW AND THEN I WOULD TAKE A BREAK AND DO SOMETHING ELSE OR GO HOME TO CHICAGO,'CAUSE I WAS STILL RELATIVELY YOUNG, AND SEE MY FRIENDS AND HANG OUT AND THERE I WOULD PLAY AT THE CHECKERBOARD WITH BUDDY GUY AND JUNIOR WELLS AND JAMES COTTON. PH:YOU CAME OUT HERE IN 74.SEPTEMBER,OCTOBER,NOVEMBER AND DECEM- BER TO SAN FRANCISCO AND LIVED OUT HERE AND PLAYED WITH SUN RA. HOW WAS THE ROAD WITH SUN RA? DW:HE FLEW ME MOST PLACES.IF IT WAS A SHORT DISTANCE I'D CATCH THE TRAIN.BUT TRAVEL FOR ME WAS FINE.THE WAY I CAME DOWN HERE: ME AND WALTER(MILLER)AND TANI TABAL DROVE DOWN IN WALTER'S CAR FROM PHILADELPHIA.HIS CADILLAC.I HAD A BALL WITH WALTER.I SAW SPACESHIPS WHILE I WAS IN THE DESERT... PH:I GOT TO STOP YOU THERE.TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SPACESHIPS IN THE DESERT. DW:I JUST SAW,YOU KNOW,DRIVING ALONG ONE NIGHT JUST SAW THEM UP THERE.I JUST WOKE UP AND THERE'S SOME SPACESHIPS IN THE AIR.I LOOKED AND I KNEW THEY WERE GIVING US SAFE PASSAGE TO CALIFORNIA. AND THEN WE ARRIVED HERE. DW:I USED TO WALK WITH HIM AND SEE PEOPLE DO WEIRD STUFF AND HE WOULD POINT IT OUT.LOOK AT THEM.YOU SEE THAT?AND WE'D GET A LAUGH.I REMEMBER WHEN WE DID THE ANTIQUE BLACKS(ALBUM)HE TOOK ME TO THE MOVIES.AND TOOK ME TO THE GUITAR STORE IN DOWNTOWN PHILA- DELPHIA.WENT SHOPPING THERE AND WENT AND SAW A MOVIE CALLED RUDY RAY MOORE.THE DEVIL'S SON IN LAW.AND THEY HAD THIS ONE SCENE THAT HE REALLY LIKED WAS THAT THE GUY PLAYING THE PIANO WAS THE SON OF THE DEVIL AND(THE PIANO)WAS BLOWING UP AND FALLING APART'CAUSE THEY WERE HAVING THE BATTLE AND HE SAID,'SEE,HERE'S THE BATTLE RIGHT THERE.'AND THIS MOVIE HAS THIS SCENE IN IT.IT'S GREAT IF YOU CAN SEE IT.AND WE SAW DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND DIFFERENT SPIRITS AND HE WOULD POINT THINGS OUT'CAUSE HE WAS VERY JOVIAL.SOMETIMES OUR RELATIONSHIP WAS NOT ONLY AS A BAND MEMBER BUT MAYBE LIKE A UNCLE OR FATHER.HE WOULD TAKE ME OUT TO DO THINGS THAT HE'D THINK THAT I'D WANT TO DO AS A YOUNG PERSON.BUT HE WOULD HANG OUT WITH ME AT THE RECORD STORES AND PEOPLE WOULD SEE US AND SAY,'WOW! WHO'S THIS?'AND SOMETIMES I WOULD DRESS EXACTLY LIKE HIM AND WE'D BE OUT.AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOME OF THOSE PICTURES.BUT FOR THE MOST PART I JUST SORT OF LIVED IT.IT WASN'T A CONSCIENCE THING LIKE MAYBE SOME PEOPLE MIGHT MAKE CHOICES LIKE THAT IN THEIR ADULT LIFE.THIS IS PRETTY MUCH HOW I LIVED AT THAT TIME. NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT MONEY OR STUFF LIKE THAT.IT WAS JUST ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC AND BEING IN A SPACE WHERE I WAS ABLE TO CULTIVATE MY TALENTS AND NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME FOR ME TO COME OUT. PH:CAN YOU RECALL ANY STRANGE OR FUNNY,INTERESTING INCIDENTS THAT HAPPENED ON THE BANDSTAND WITH SUN RA? DW:I REMEMBER ONE TIME WE PLAYED SOME CLUB.IT WAS DOWN HERE IN THIS AREA(IN SAN FRANCISCO)AND THE HAIGHT STREET DIVISADERO AREA. AND THERE WAS THIS GUY‘WHO WAS A MUSLIM AND HIS WIFE WAS A CHRISTIAN AND THEY WERE HAVING AN ARGUMENT WHILE WE WERE PLAYING AND ME AND SUN RA WERE KIND OF LAUGHING.WE KIND OF TONED THE MUSIC DOWN TO HEAR THEM HAVE THIS ARGUMENT.I THOUGHT IT WAS AMUSING BECAUSE HE WAS EXPOUNDING STUFF FROM A MUSLIM VIEW AND SHE WAS EXPOUNDING FROM A CHRISTIAN VIEW BUT SOMEHOW AT THE END OF THE SHOW HE CAME UP AND SAID HOW THE MUSIC PUT THEM BACK , TOGETHER.AND I GOT A LAUGH OUT OF THAT. DALE WILLIAMS AT OPEN MIND MUSIC NOVEMBER ll,l996.SAN FRANCISCO PHOTO :PETER HINDS .—_._.—-—.__-———..——._—_._.—————_..__.._._————.-__...———._-—.—-.——_—._———-—-_—_.—_.—_..__._-—._——.__ DW:SO I USED TO SHARE A ROOM WITH JOHN(AT THE HOUSE IN PHILADELPHIA)AND I USED TO GET UP WHEN HE'D GET UP AND WE'D START PLAYING AND I WOULD TRY TO IMITATE OR FIND OUT HOW DID HE DO ALL OF THESE PERMUTATIONS.AND I LEARNED MORE THAN I'VE FORGOTTEN.I HAVE TO GET BACK INTO THAT ZONE TO BRING IT ALL OUT BUT EACH ONE OF THEM(JOHN GILMORE, MARSHALL ALLEN AND OTHER BAND MEMBERS)I LEARNED A DIFFERENT WAY TO EXPRESS SAME THINGS OR DIFFERENT THINGS.ALSO BY KNOWING EACH ONE OF THEM WHEN WE PLAYED WE WERE ABLE TO DO THE TELEPATHY THING AND THE VIBE AND KNOW WHERE THINGS WERE AT.USUALLY SUN RA HAD ME NEXT TO HIM.A LOT OF TIMES WE WERE PLAYING AND I WOULD HAVE FUN BECAUSE WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE PLAYING OR IT WAS,LIKE,HORN PIECES I COULD COME OUT AND DANCE WITH THE SUN SYMBOL AND THAT WAS KIND OF FUN TO DANCE AND TO DANCE WITH CHERYL(BANKS)AND WISTERIA(MOONDEW AKA JUDITH HOL- TON).SING THE CHANTS AND WALK AROUND AND THEN PLAY GUITAR.I MEAN, I HAD A BALL...PLAY A LITTLE DRUM OR HANG OVER HERE...REHEARSALS WERE INTERESTING'CAUSE WE WOULD PLAY A PIECE OF MUSIC DIFFERENT WAYS.I REMEMBER STAYING AT THE HOUSE AND HE REALLY WOULDN'T LET ME LISTEN TO ANYTHING BUT FLETCHER HENDERSON WHEN I FIRST MOVED THERE.THAT'S ABOUT ALL HE LET ME LISTEN TO.AND THE THING ABOUT FLETCHER HENDERSON...I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THE GUYS GREAT GRAND- SON AND WHEN I CAME BACK HOME TO CHICAGO I WAS TELLING THIS GUY ABOUT HIS GRANDFATHER. 'PH:WHAT'S THIS GUYS NAME? DW:ALAN BARROWS.HE'S A GUITAR PLAYER,TOO.WE WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL. AND THEN WHEN I GOT TO HIS HOUSE I REALIZED HIS MOTHER HAD THESE PICTURES AND I SAID,'THAT'S FLETCHER HENDERSON.'AND SUN RA TALKED A GREAT DEAL ABOUT HIM AND HIS MUSIC.BACK THEN WE USED TO PLAY BIG JOHN SPECIAL...WE USED TO DO DIFFERENT KIND OF BLUES.I RE- MEMBER WE DID ONE SONG HERE THAT WAS REALLY FUNNY.WHEN YOU EAT DON'T EAT TOO FAST'CAUSE YOU'LL MAKE MUSIC WITH YOUR ASS PUMP, PUMP.I REMEMBER PLAYING THAT OUT HERE ONE TIME.'CAUSE HE HAD A VIVID SENSE OF HUMOR,TOO.BT IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY 'CAUSE HE WOULD PLAY THE BOOGIE WOOGIE AND STUFF AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE CONNECTED WITH UNMASK THE BATMAN. DW:ONE TIME WE HAD A WOMAN COME TO THE HOUSE AND SHE JUST BUSTED IN AND STARTED COOKING AND CLEANING AND I THINK SUN RA HID AND WE KEPT TELLING HER HE WASN'T THERE AND SHE KEPT COOKING AND CLEANING ANYWAY.AND SHE MADE ALL THIS FOOD AND WE WERE FORBIDDEN TO EAT IT.HE SAID IT SPIRITUALLY WASN'T CORRECT.BECAUSE OF THE WOMAN.AND THAT WAS KIND OF FUNNY'CAUSE HE ACTUALLY HID IN THE HOUSE. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS...KONCEPTS... OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA...SEPTEMBER 28,I986.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:STILL UNINTELLIGIBLE WITH THAT NESS(AQUIN0.0WNER OF THE MABUHAY GARDENS).HE HASN'T COME UP WITH THAT MONEY YET.I TOLD YOU.PETER(HINDS)WAS TELLING ME,'OH,HE'S ALLRIGHT.'HE SAID WED- NESDAY.NOW HE SAID FRIDAY.IF HE DOESN'T GIVE US THIS 'TILL TO- MORROW...HE KNOW WE GOT TO LEAVE TOWN. JOHN HINDS:THAT'S CUTTING IT AWFUL CLOSE. i SR:IT IS.FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS,TOO.HE SAID THEY HAVEN'T REPORTED E FROM THE TICKETS FROM THAT TICKETRON BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE OR NOT. PETER HINDS:THAT'S CONCEIVABLE.I'LL SAY THAT.IT'S A POSSIBILITY. § JH:I DIDN'T KNOW THAT SIDE OF THE BUSINESS.I NEVER...I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKED.I GUESS I STILL DON'T BUT I GUESS IT SHOULD BE OK. SR:SOMEBODY ELSE SAID TICKETRON IS SLOW GETTING THE MONEY. JH:IT'S TOO BAD HE DIDN'T HAVE A LITTLE EXTRA CASH JUST TO PAY AND THEN HE CAN WAIT ON THE CASH. ' SR:RIGHT.IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE APPROPRIATE,YOU KNOW. PH:SUN RA.I WAS THINKING,YOU KNOW YOUR EAST BERLIN CASSETTE IS DOING SO WELL,YOU MIGHT SAY... JH:I WOULD SAY. PH:IT'S REALLY MOVING(LAUGHS). SR:WELL,I SAID PEOPLE LIKE IT.THAT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT LIKE... ‘ JH:OH,THEY LIKE IT.THERE'S NO DOUBT.IT'S A NICE RECORDING.I PUT IT ON HEADPHONES AND JUST ABSORBED IT. SR:THAT'S WHEN YOU CAN REALLY HEAR IT. JH:OH,YEAH.THAT'S THE WAY I EXCLUSIVELY LISTEN. SR:YOU CAN GET THE FEELING OF THE BIG HALL AND THE ACOUSTICS... A JH:IT'S BEAUTIFUL. SR:YOU CAN FEEL THE PRESENCE OF THE PEOPLE... JH:IT'S REALLY TRUE. SR:AND THEIR INTERESTS.YEAH.THAT UNINTELLIGIBLE REALLY WHAT HAPPENED. ‘ JH:YEAH.OH,IT WAS VERY NICE.LIKE I SAID BEFORE I KNOW YOU'LL BE GOING BACK THERE BECAUSE IF THE RESPONSE WAS ANY LOUDER IT WOULD BLOW THE TOP OFF THE PLACE. SR:(LAUGHS)OH,YEAH.IT WAS DELIGHTFUL. JH:YEAH.SO YOU HAVE TO BE GOING BACK VERY SOON.BUT I KNOW THAT PETER WAS TELLING ME ABOUT...YOU KNOW,THE IDEA ABOUT...WELL,YOU SAID YOU HAD MORE MATERIAL FROM... SR:YEAH.I GOT THAT IMAGES,YOU KNOW.I WAS TELLING YOU ABOUT THAT. AND I DON'T KNOW WHY DANNY(THOMPSON)DIDN'T PUT THAT IN THERE. JH:BUT PETER WAS MENTIONING HOW FEW PEOPLE HAVE HEARD ALBUMS LIKE WE TRAVEL THE SPACEWAYS. SR:THAT IS A VERY NICE ALBUM. PH AND JH:INTERSTELLAR LOW WAYS. SR:THAT'S TRUE. PH:JAZZ IN SILHOUETTE. SR:SEE,(ALTON)ABRAHAM GOT THOSE THINGS IN CHICAGO.AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS STORY(IS).HE WON'T ANSWER LETTERS.HE DOESN'T COMMUNICATE WITH US. PH:YOU SHOULD TAKE IT UPON YOURSELF IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT JUST TO REISSUE THOSE ON CASSETTE. SR:I'M THINKING ABOUT IT NOW. \\ . PH:'CAUSE IT WOULD BE VERY EASY FOR ME TO REDUCE THE COVERS AND MAKE THEM FIT INTO A CASSETTE SIZE. ~ «,«:5:_‘ SR:I'M GOING TO WORK ON IT AS SOON AS I GET BACK.I'M GOING TO DO THAT. PH:'CAUSE IT'S ABOUT TIME THOSE CAME BACK OUT AGAIN. SR:YEAH.PEOPLE REALLY...THEY GOT TO TRACE BACK NOW TO(SEE)WHAT I WAS DOING SO THEY CAN CATCH UP.A LOT OF THEM ARE INTERESTED IN THE THINGS BACK THEN. PH:PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.OF COURSE THEY'RE JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND. JH:SO IT WOULD HELP THEM KNOW YOUR HISTORY A LOT BETTER.AND ALSO HELP YOU,YOU KNOW,FINANCIALLY ON THE ROAD. SR:MAYBE I CAN HAVE A SUN RA FAN CLUB. JH:THAT WOULD BE NICE.NOW THAT WAS AN IDEA,I REMEMBER,I HEARD YEARS AGO FROM THE SPENCER WESTON FELLOW AND I THOUGHTi O o S D R A.. W6. D8_A E91 1N E.R CTO UPF REI BSLS .AD DSCN NN ,1 AEOH DC KRSR CAIE IGCT R NE TYAP AAR: PHFO U T TBNO AAAH H .... .. D..M....SD.. '\ . FLYER FOR NATIVE SON CONCERTS . BERKELEY , CA . 1 97 1 . . - -.‘ ' “ .. 1-’ 1 I . ,, _ . . ‘> - A - ~‘ V - I‘ ..n 1 n.‘ - ’ "i. \' ‘_ ' ,'_. .. 9. . H -. . . ... ' . 3-"" --A ‘ «. * ‘ ~.- \ 8-. -- - J 1 ' . -. _*'= '...-5', ‘ I ‘ I ‘ ' ' -nil 1 5 ‘. .'._',r, 2- v V '\' . ... Q ~ _ r . .. _: , -.‘ ‘. .. >_ \ ' ‘ ._ ' 5 '3 - . V "Lo - , '7 ~.,_ _- _, '--:~.. I " “.~a'?". '. - .. .;‘ - l . 3:25 5HArTr1:c»<"Ave Bc—:Rr<X 545 - 556%.? . \_\+ E ..;»£._2...._\\ \\ /y % %’ \\ JUNE iysou Anp SUN RA MABUHAY GARDENS.SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA SEPTEMBER 1986 . PHOTO: PETER HINDS W4.-L:~«‘VN'0v“«n:«~« ,,...k_.M < SR:THAT WAS THAT PHILLY JAZZ(RICK BARRY)AND THEY WERE...THEY JUST WANTED TO USE MY NAME SO THEY COULD GET A MAILING LIST TO PUSH OTHER RECORDS.THAT'S THE REASON IT FAILED.YOU KNOW. - JH:BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS SO WONDERFUL.I WAS SO EXCITED.IT WAS,LIKE,WRITE US IF YOU WANT SUN RA TO COME TO YOUR AREA. RECORDS.WOULD YOU LIKE TO BUY A RECORD EVERY MONTH?IT WAS LIKE, YES! SR:WELL,THEY DIDN'T MEAN IT.THEY WANTED TO GET PEOPLES ADDRESS SO THEY COULD SEND THEM BROCHURES ON OTHER... JH:ARTISTS. SR:AND THEN THEY FAILED,YOU KNOW. JH:THEY DID.IT JUST WENT...I NEVER HEARD A THING AFTER THAT. SR:THEY MOVED OUT OF PHILADELPHIA.THEY GOT ONE RECORD CALLED MYTHOCRACY.THAT'S A PRETTY...I DON'T THINK YOU GOT THAT RECORD. JH:THAT WAS NEVER RELEASED WAS IT? SR:YEAH. JH:IS THAT RIGHT? SR:BY PHILLY JAZZ. JH:IF IT CAME OUT THEY MUST HAVE ISSUED VERY FEW.I KNOW MYTHIC WORLDS. SR:MAYBE THAT'S IT. JH:OK.OF MYTHIC WORLDS.OH,I HAVE THAT.WE HAVE A LOT OF DOUBLES OF YOUR ALBUMS.WE'VE GOT,WHAT?ABOUT ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY RECORDS? SR:YOU DIDN'T BRING THAT... PH:NO.THAT'S ANOTHER THING I... SR:YOU DIDN'T BRING DROP ME OFF IN HARLEM. PH:NO.I'LL HAVE THAT DEFINATELY FOR YOU ON SUNDAY AT THE LATEST. MAYBE TOMORROW. SR:WELL,IF YOU PLAYED IT ON THE PHONE FOR ME.ALL I WANT IS THE FIRST CHORD. 7 JH:OH.JUST THE FIRST CHORD? 10 phaiy jC1ZZ. inc. p.o. box 8167 philodelphio. pennsylvonao 19101 (915) 387-48 35 Solar Solicitations! Now that a bunch of people have sent in for the Ra Legion, we can begin to shape it. M thoughts on what we could offer Legionnaire: are records ( Philly Jazz releases, Saturn-Nine releases, other Sun—Ra albums ), photographs and/or posters of Sun Ra and the Arkestra, some of Sun Ra's drawings ( originals or reproductions ), a membership card, T-shirts, a column written by Sun Ra, perhaps even some sort of music 4 lesson. Philly Jazz would like to receive communications from all of you i as to what you think would be good to include as part of our association Besides just offering material things we can have a special concert for Legion people. You can also help by telling us of people and places that Q would want to have Sun Ra in concert, and by requesting that someone brirg Sun Ra to the area, and by requesting his records on the radio. You can give the Philly Jazz address to all those interested. Sun Ra is also very interested in hearing from you, so send any messages to him at our 1 address but with his name on them. Suggestions on the Ra Legion should b 3 a addressed to me. Right now the only thing we have available are Philly 5 § Jazz T-Shirts, such as the Arkestra wore at the Atlanta Jazz Festival 1} ( they still wear them sometimes ). You may order them ( small, medium g * or large ) from us for 85.00 ( that includes postage ). This is the firs_§ time we are offering them for sale to the Legion. The only people who § have them are a few in Atlanta. You may order more than one if you wish,§ though. Allow 4-6 weeks delivery ( make check payable to Philly Jazz Rec; I have some great pictures we will make available, as soon as we find the best way to do that. Also: Passports to Jupiter: Write away: 3,33‘. Rick Barry’ Coordinator Philly Jazz Records P.O. Box 8167 Phila. Pa. 19101 . a.-.,«~o-a-u.a.o....e-.-um-a-a.:.-=»~«.~r . no SR:I MEAN I COULD JUST COPY IT ON MY TAPE RECORDER.I WANT THE TRUMPET TO HEAR THAT SO HE CAN PLAY IT LIKE THAT. PH:I'LL TRY AND HAVE THAT FOR YOU TOMORROW NIGHT.I'LL MAKE A GOOD EFFORT.'CAUSE TOMORROW I WON'T HAVE TO RUN AROUND WITH THE CAR.I HAD CAR PROBLEMS TODAY. SR:AND IF YOU...SEE,I DIDN'T BRING ALL MY TAPES.I DIDN'T BRING... WHAT IS IT I WANT?...KING PORTER STOMP.I DIDN'T BRING THAT.AND I DON'T THINK I BROUGHT YEAH MAN.AND WHAT ELSE?I THOUGHT SURE I BROUGHT CAN YOU TAKE IT.I DIDN'T BRING SOME TAPES.I GOT SO MANY. THEREFORE I JUST GRAB SOME AND...I BROUGHT ONE FLETCHER THAT YOU SENT ME.BUT YOU BASICALLY WAS PUSHING WRAPPIN'IT UP. JH:OH,YES. SR:I SEE YOU GOT THAT RECORDED SEVERAL TIMES.SO IT DIDN'T HAVE TOO MANY NUMBERS ON THERE.I THINK IT HAD...YOU HAD...HAPPY AS THE DAY IS LONG.BIG JOHN SPECIAL.YOU DIDN'T HAVE CAN YOU TAKE IT?ON THERE.I THINK YOU HAD TIDAL WAVE ON THERE SO...WHAT ELSE?I DON'T THINK YOU HAD QUEER NOTIONS ON THERE.WHAT YOU HAD ON THERE IS VERY CLEAR AND VERY BEAUTIFUL.IT MADE FLETCHER'S ARRANGEMENTS AMAZING.JUST AMAZING.I MEAN,OF COURSE,IT'S SO TOGETHER. JH:VERY INSPIRATIONAL. SR:YOU CAN TELL THAT ALL THE MUSICIANS WERE DEDICATED TO THAT MUSIC.THEY WERE PLAYING.REAL SOUL ON IN THERE.EVERYBODY PLAYING. NO DISSENSION.NO SOMEBODY COMING ALONG FOR THE RIDE.IT WAS... EVERYBODY WAS INTERESTED IN PLAYING THAT MUSIC.SO BEAUTIFUL.WELL, I PROBABLY WON'T HAVE IT TOMORROW,THAT WRAPPIN'IT UP.BECAUSE I GOT IT ALL WRITTEN OUT BUT I HEARD SOME THINGS IN THERE THAT I DIDN'T HAVE WRITTEN.SOME HARMONIES...IT COULD BE JUST OVERTONES,YOU SEE?SO I HAVE TO STUDY AND SEE WHETHER IT'S THE OVERTONES I'M HEARING OR WERE THEY ACTUAL NOTES.'CAUSE I CAN HEAR OVERTONES AND UNDERTONES.I CAN HEAR ALL OF THAT. JH:THAT HAPPENS.I KNOW DUKE USED THAT EFFECT ON MOOD INDIGO.THE MICROPHONE EFFECT5.REMEMBER THAT,PETER?HE GOT CLOSE ON THE MIC AND CREATED A GHOST TONE.THE ORIGINAL(VERSION).HE WAS REALLY A RECORDING MASTER,TOO.HE REALLY KNEW THE STUDIO.HE GOT THE ACOUSTIC BASS RIGHT UP FRONT...THAT WAS HIS IDEA.REALLY.HE'S A REAL MASTER OF THE STUDIO. SR:YEAH.IT'S TOO BAD HE HAD THESE PRIMA DONNAS IN THE BAND BUT HE DID A GOOD JOB.I WOULD HAVE FIRED ALL OF THEM.BUT HE HAD ALL THAT BURDEN ON HIM AND HE STILL KEPT ON BEING A GENTLEMAN. JH:THAT'S TRUE.DOWN SOUTH CAMP MEETING.HAVE YOU EVER DONE?... SR:OH,THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.I THINK YOU'VE GOT THAT ON THERE.AT LEAST PART OF IT.YEAH,I WROTE THAT UP.I TOOK IT UP.IT SOUNDED ALL RIGHT.BUT,IT'S JUST THAT I FELT THAT THERE WAS A FEW NOTES IN THERE,A FEW HARMONIES I DIDN'T HAVE.BUT IT SOUNDED JUST LIKE THE 12 4. RECORD BUT I JUST HAVE FEELINGS UNINTELLIGIBLE IN THERE.IT'S SOMETHING THAT I LEFT OUT.COULD BE A PIANO PART OR BASS PART.IT'$ GOT TO BE EXACT.SO IF IT'S NOT THE SAME BASS IT'S NOT THE SAME ARRANGEMENT.BUT FLETCHER WROTE HIS OWN BASS PARTS,TOO. JH:YOU WERE MENTIONING THAT.THEY WERE ALMOST LIKE MELODIES. (SINGS) SR:THERE THE BASS WAS REALLY MELODIC.IT WASN'T JUST BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM LIKE THEY DO TODAY.IT WAS MELODIC.YOU COULD HUM THE BASS PART.IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.AND THAT MEANT THAT THEY(WERE)REALLY A MUSICIANS MUSICIAN.THE MASTER.THEY HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN AROUND TO THE FULL THING ABOUT FLETCHER,YET.THE BAD PART ABOUT IT:A LOT OF MUSICIANS DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.WALT WAS HERE TODAY.HE SAID HE DIDN'T,THAT'S THE BASS PLAYER.HE WAS TALKING ABOUT JAZZ AND I SAID,'WELL,A TRUE JAZZ MUSICIAN HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT FLETCHER AND BESSIE SMITH AND EVERYBODY AND THEY'D HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT THE EARLY BANDS AND THEY'D HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT JAZZ.IT'S LIKE(A)CLASSICAL MUSICIAN.THEY CAN TELL YOU BACH AND BEETHOVEN AND BARTOK.THEY CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THEM.WHERE THEY WAS BORN... I SAY A TRUE JAZZ MUSICIAN OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING ABOUT JAZZ MUSICIANS. u——¢—¢¢q—-«--—.—na-.———--c—:¢-—-—-nu.-u-u————-.—-¢¢¢-—.——g-—-—a——-.—¢¢—.—————-—_..——-.——— DANNY THOMPSON:THE GUY EDSEL,HE JUST SHOWED UP(AT INTERMISSION). THE OWNER.HE SAID,'I'M SO TIRED,MAN.Y'ALL SOME TROOPERS,MAN,I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL DO IT....' SR:WAS HE HERE LAST NIGHT? DT:YEAH,HE WAS HERE.'MAN.YOU ALL TOO MUCH FOR ME.' SR:WELL,IT'S ABOUT ENERGIES.YOU KNOW.THAT'S THE POINT OF A MUSICIAN.IF HE DOESN'T TUNE IN TO WHAT I'M DOING...THE PACE IS SO TERRIEIC THAT HE WILL BE TIRED.IF HE TUNE IN TO WHAT I'M DOING THEN HE'LL BE ENERGIZED.IT'S QUITE SIMPLE.HE'LL BE ENERGIZED. OTHERWISE HE'LL GET TIREDER AND TIREDER.HE WON'T MAKE IT IN THIS BAND.HE'LL BE SO TIRED HE UNINTELLIGIBLE.AND THEN AGAIN HE'LL GET SO MUCH ENERGY UNTILL HE JUST HAVE TO LAY DOWN.YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE AN AUTOMOBILE.WHEN_YOU PUT GAS IN IT IT'S GOT TO STOP. SO THIS ENERGY BE COMING AND YOU HAVE TO STOP.WELL,IT'S TWO WAYS. IT WILL BE LIKE YOU'RE TIRED.SO IT WORKS TWO WAYS,YOU KNOW.IT'S DEFINATELY ANOTHER KIND OF MUSIC.I HAD ONE OF AMERICAS TOP NOVELISTS COME IN JUST NOW AND TELL ME THAT.ISHMAEL REED. PH:OH.WAS HE BACK HERE TONIGHT? SR:HE JUST COME IN HERE.THAT WAS ISHMAEL REED. JH:OH.THAT WAS THAT GENTLEMAN.THAT GAVE YOU THE BASS PLAYERS NUMBER. SR:NO,NO.ISHMAEL REED IS SORT OF HEAVY SET.LOOK LIKE SOCRATES. I ALWAYS TELL HIM HE LOOKS LIKE SOCRATES.WHEN I FIRST MET HIM, YOU KNOW,HE WAS LIONIZED IN NEW YORK AND EVERYBODY KNOW HE GOT A BEAUTIFUL BRAIN.I MEAN HE'S VERY BRAINY.TOP INTELLECTUAL,THERE. 13 "*7 § § E I ...;...«.<a:.a.z.q:;..a»... , WHEN I FIRST BROUGHT HIM TO THE HOUSE I TOLD HIM SOMETHING LIKE HE ACTUALLY THE MOST IGNORANT PERSON I EVER MET ON THE PLANET. AND EVERYONE SAID,'YOU KNOW,THAT'S ISHMAEL REED.'I SAID,'WELL, HE'S STILL IGNORANT.'HE HAD TO LAUGH.THAT'S WHEN I MET HIM.HE JUST LAUGHED...'I'M IGNORANT?'OF COURSE. JH:THAT'S NICE.HE HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR. SR:I SAY,'YOU GOT HIGH IQ'S AND EVERYTHING.IN MY BOOK YOU AIN'T MAKING IT.YOU GOT TO LEARN SOMETHING.'SO THROUGH THE YEARS HE'S LEARNING AND LEARNING AND LEARNING AND LEARNING.HE FINALLY TOLD ME I WAS RIGHT.AND HE JUST CAME IN HERE AND SAID,'YEAH.YEAH,YOU DEALING WITH INFINITY.EVERYTIME I HEAR YOU YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.YOU ACTUALLY DEALING WITH INFINITY.YOU'RE A REAL MASTERXALL THESE YEARS...WHAT IS IT?60'S OR SOMETHING?THAT'S TWENTY SOME YEARS AGO...HE GOT A BIG OLD BOOK ABOUT SOMETHING.THAT THICK.HE SENT ME ONE.I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT BOOK IS ABOUT.HE GOT SEVERAL BOOKS OUT.I SAID,'BY NOW YOU OUGHT TO BE A MILLIONAIRE.'HE SAID,'I'M LOOKING LIKE A BUM.'I SAID,YEAH. THAT'S SO YOU CAN COME OUT AND WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLES.SO YOU LOOKING LIKE THAT SO YOU CAN GET OUT AMONG THE PEOPLE AND WRITE SOME STORIES.'HE HAD TO LAUGH.(SUN RA LAUGHS)THAT'S THE WAY YOU GET YOUR STUFF.GO OUT AMONG THE PEOPLE LIKE ONE OF THE FELLAS,ONE OF THE GUYS AND YOU LISTEN TO THEM TALK AND YOU CAN WRITE A STORY ABOUT IT.THEIR LIFE.AND THEIR DRINKING AND TALKING. JH:ISN'T THAT LIKE THE MUSIC,TOO.REFLECTING PEOPLE.LIKE FLETCHER HENDERSON? SR:OH YEAH.I SAID TO FLETCHER HE WAS WRITING WHAT HE SAW.WHAT HE HEARD.HE WAS WRITING ABOUT PEOPLE.BACKING UP BLUES SINGERS AND ALL THAT AND HE WAS A COLLEGE MAN.BUT MOST COLLEGE MEN WOUULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT BUT HE DID IT.HE'D FIND SOMEBODY IN A TOWN(WHO WAS)REALLY PLAYING,TAKE THEM AND PUT THEM IN THE BAND.HE HAD A REPUTATION,WHICH THE BAND DIDN'T LIKE,OF GOING INTO A TOWN AND HEAR ANOTHER BAND PLAY AND GIVE THEM ONE OF HIS ARRANGEMENTS FOR THEIR ARRANGEMENT.COLEMAN HAWKINS WAS OFTEN INFURIATED ABOUT THAT.HE'D LOOK UP AN ARRANGEMENT.GONElSOME OTHER BAND GOT IT AND THEY GOT SOME OTHER BANDS ARRANGEMENT.CHANGEING ARRANGEMENTS.SO, NO TELLING WHAT HE GAVE AWAY. 14 — __ ;.,.,¢e.=.— ;.. -.- . ....r,-A. THIS IS THE FIRST INSTALLMENT OF A SEMI REGULAR FEATURE WHICH WILL LOOK AT VARIOUS MUSICIANS THOUGHTS CONCERNING SUN RA AND HIS MUSIC.ESPECIALLY INTERESTING,I THINK,ARE THE COMMENTS OFFERED DURING"BLINDFOLD TESTS"WHERE THE MUSICIANS LISTEN TO A RECORDING AND THEN COMMENT WITHOUT KNOWING WHO IS PLAYING. CONTE CONDOLI...TRUMPET... COMMENTS AFTER LISTENING TO TAKE THE A TRAIN FROM SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS(HAT HUT) . BEFORE(BEING INFORMED WHO WAS PLAYING):(LAUGHS)WELL,I DID RE- COGNIZE THE MELODY.AFTER THE PIANO PLAYER DID HIS THING AND THE BAND WENT INTO 3/4 TIME,IT REMINDED ME THAT BILL HOLMAN DID AN ARRANGEMENT OF THIS TUNE IN 3/4 FOR US ON THE TONIGHT SHOW. IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT I DON'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE. (LAUGHS)I WONDER WHAT DUKE WOULD THINK.THIS IS ABOUT THE MOST DIFFERENT VERSION I EVER EXPECT TO HEAR.TRUMPET HAS SOME CHOPS. BUT DOESN'T KNOW QUITE WHAT TO DO WITH THEM.MAYBE I SHOULD GIVE IT ONE STAR JUST FOR THE ATTEMPT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THE PIANO—I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO.THE SUSTAINING PEDAL WAS ON THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE THING.THE BAND AS A WHOLE WASN'T TOO BAD,BUT I STILL CAN'T RATE IT HIGHER THAN ONE STAR. AFTER:I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS SUN RA.I HAVEN'T HEARD HIM.I'VE HEARD OF HIM.I REMEMBER AT THE JAZZTIMES CONVENTION THEY HAD THIS DIS- PLAY OF PICTURES OF VARIOUS PEOPLE AND THEY HAD THIS PICTURE OF SUN RA.AND I SAID TO SOMEONE,WHO IS HE?I NEVER HEARD OF HIM.BUT I WAS TOLD,WELL,HE'S BEEN AROUND:APPARENTLY HE'S IN ONE OF YOUR (LEONARD FEATHER)BOOKS. MICHAEL RAY?I DON'T KNOW HIM EITHER. A * IF THAT'S ALL SUN_RA HAS TO SAY-NOW,ORNETTE COLEMAN,WHEN HE CAME OUT,THERE WAS A LOT OF CONTROVERSY,BUT HE TURNED OUT TO DO SOME GOOD THINGS.BUT THIS-I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY SHOULD TAKE A GOOD TUNE LIKE TAKE THE A TRAIN AND REALLY DESTROY IT. JAZZTIMES...FEBRUARY l989...PAGE 23 TOMMY VIG...VIBRAPHONIST... COMENTS AFTER LISTENING TO SUN RA'S STREET NAMED HELL. I LIKED THE FIRST CHORUS THE BEST.FIRST OF ALL,I WAS RELIEVED THAT YOU PLAYED SOMETHING I LIKED.THE TYMPANI WAS USED VERY WELL IN THE FIRST TWO OR THREE CHORUSES.LATER ON IT STARTED TO GO DOWN:THE TYMPANI AND THE DRUMS PLAYED EIGHTS WITH A BASS BACK- GROUND,AND NEITHER THAT BACKGROUND NOR ANY OF THOSE EIGHTS WERE TOO INTERESTING OR GOOD. IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT CHARLIE MINGUS DID,BUT THIS IS NOT A BRILLIANT TALENT.SOME OF THE DRUM THINGS THAT WERE PLAYED REMINDED ME OF SHELLY'S PLAYING,BUT I THINK HE WOULD HAVE STAYED IN TIME AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER. I WOULD RATE IT TWO AND ONE HALF STARS. DOWN BEAT MARCH 20 1969...PAGE 34... _ ‘ -._..._., ._., MILES DAVIS...COMPOSER...TRUMPET... COMMENTS AFTER LISTENING TO SUN RA'S BRAINVILLE. THAT'S GOTTA COME FROM EUROPE.WE WOULDN'T PLAY NO SHIT LIKE THAT. IT'S SO SAD.IT SOUNDS FUNNY TO ME.SOUNDS LIKE A 1935 ARRANGEMENT BY RAYMOND SCOTT.THEY MUST BE JOKING-THE FLORIDA A&M BAND SOUNDS BETTER THAN THAT SHIT.THEY'VE GOT MORE SPIRIT THAN THAT.THAT AIN'T NOTHING. WHY PUT ON THAT RECORD?WHAT DOES THAT DO?YOU MEAN THERE'S SOME- BODY AROUND HERE WHO FEELS LIKE THAT? EVEN THE WHITE PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THAT SAD. LEONARD FEATHER:DO YOU THINK THAT'S A WHITE GROUP? DAVIS:THE TRUMPET PLAYER DIDN'T SOUND WHITE...I DON'T KNOW,MAN. YOU KNOW,THERE'S A LITTLE THING THAT TRUMPET PLAYERS PLAY TO MAKE A JAZZ SOUND,THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR OWN SOUND,YOU CAN HEAR AN ADOPTED JAZZ SOUND.WHICH IS A DRAG,ESPECIALLY IN THE MUTE.I MEAN YOU CAN TELL WHEN A GUY'S GOT HIS OWN THING. PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE GOOD FRIENDS TO TELL THEM,"MAN,THAT AIN'T IT,SO DON'T PLAY TRUMPET,"YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? OR "DON'T PLAY DRUMS,'CAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.I'D RATHER HAVE THAT SAID TO ME THAN TO GO ON PLAYING TRUMPET WHEN IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT,SO HE SHOULD WORK ON IT,OR PLAY ANOTHER INSTRUMENT- A LOWER INSTRUMENT. WHEN AN ARRANGEMENT'S TIGHT LIKE THAT,YOU HAVE TO PLAY EVERY CHORD,BECAUSE THE BACKGROUND PARTS WHEN THEY RECORD,LIKE THEY PLAY THEM SINGLE,INSTEAD'OF MAKING IT SMOOTH-AND IT'S HARD TO PLAY LIKE THAT.YOU HAVE TO PLAY EACH CHORD,THEN PLAY THE OTHER CHORDS OR YOU NEVER CONNECT ANYTHING,AND IN BETWEEN IT'S JUST BLANK. TO ME IT'S JUST LIKE CANNED MUSIC.EVEN CANNED MUSIC SOUNDS GOOD 4 SOMETIMES,BUT NOT SHIT LIKE THIS. DOWN BEAT JUNE 27,1968... ARTIE SHAW...COMPOSER...CLARINET... COMMENTS AFTER HEARING BUT NOT FOR ME...AFTER HOURS...BLACK SAINT MESSY.THE TROMBONE WAS SO BALD...BAH,BAH,BAH...OUT TUNE. NOTHING DID MUCH FOR ME,NOT ONE SOLOIST.IT WAS THE WRONG TEMPO. THEY PLAYED THE TUNE BADLY.I FELT LIKE THEY WERE LOST IN THAT TUNE,THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT.(COMMENTS AFTER LEONARD FEATHER IDENTIFIES SUN RA.)OH, I KNOW SUN RA.WAS THAT HIM? WELL, HE DID SOME REMARKABLE THINGS,BUT THAT SURE AS SHIT WASN'T IT.I HAVE A FRIEND WHO'S DOING A BOOK ON HIM:HE'S A LIBRARIAN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.HE DID A BOOK ON ERIC DOLPHY,WHO I THINK IS A BITCH OF A PLAYER,VERY UNDERRATED.BUT THIS...HE CAN'T BE ANY BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE HE'S GOT WITH HIM.AN AWFUL LOT OF RECORDS THAT GOT MADE SHOULD HAVE,AND DID DISAPPEAR.THE INTRODUCTION WASN'T TOO BAD,BUT FROM THERE ON IN...HE HIMSELF WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INCREDIBLY INTERESTING MUSICIAN.BUT,THEN AGAIN,WE ALL HAVE BAD DAYS.THERE ARE RECORDS THAT I'VE MADE THAT I'D JUST AS SOON DISAPPEAR.BUT WE HAD A LOT OF PRESSURE IN THOSE DAYS.SAMMY CAHN MADE ME PLAY A TUNE OF HIS THAT NOBODY WOULD TOUCH. JAZZ TIMES MAY 94... ZAHIR BATIN...DRUMS... HE HAD SOME BASIC MUSICAL TRAINING IN HIGH SCHOOL,STARTED TO PLAY AROUND BALTIMORE IN l963,AND CAME TO NEW YORK TWO YEARS LATER, GETTING HIS FIRST GIG WITH SUN RA AT SLUGS'.(HE GAVE ME A LOT OF POINTERS ABOUT DIFFERENT FORMS AND TYPES OF MUSIC,AND DYNAMICS.") HE ALSO LEARNED FROM MARSHALL ALLEN ,"AND CLIFFORD JARVIS TAUGHT_ ME A LOT."...DOWN BEAT MARCH l5,72...PAGE 20... MAX ROACH...COMPOSER AND PERCUSSIONIST... THE MUSIC OF SUN RA OR CECIL TAYLOR IS PLACED IN AN OBJECTIVE CATEGORY WHICH MEANS IT IS AVANTE GARDE AND SEPERATES THEM FROM THE MASS.IT'S LIKE SAYING 'THIS IS A 1960 CAR AND THIS IS A 1972 CAR',THE IMPLICATION BEING THAT THE 1972 CAR IS THE BETTER—BUT IT'S STILL A CAR. I THINK THAT CECIL TAYLOR AND SUN RA ARE INNOVATORS,THOUGH,BECAUSE THEY HAVE BROUGHT NEW THINGS TO THE MUSIC." DOWN BEAT MARCH 16 l972...PAGE 17... I V IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. AND THIS SOMETHING ELSE IS GETTING READY TO KNOCK ON EVERY- BODY’S DOOR. IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. MORE /FRIGHTFUL THAN DEATH, REALLY. BEGAUSETMAITD-'S NOT DEATH. IT'S NOT LIFE, EITHER. BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME PEOPLE ARE GOING To FACE SOMETHING THAT'S NoT LIFE AND NoT DEATH. THEY NEVER HAD TO FACE THAT BEFORE. ‘cAus£ THEY cou|.D EQUATE. THEY <ou|.D EQUATE DEATH . . . . THIS Is SOMETHING TFIEY BE ABLE To EQUATE. AND I DON'T KNOVI WHAT'S GOING To HAPPEN. ‘ SUN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-13
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 15 (February, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-02-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: I'M A sPIRIT MASTER. I'VE BEEN TO A zONE wHERE THERE Is NO AIR, NO LIGHT, NO sOUNI>, NO LIEE, NO DEATH, NOTHING . . . THERE's FIVE BILLION PEOPLE ON THIs PLAN ET, ALL OUT OE TUNE. I'VE c.OT TO RAIsE THEIR <ONscIOUsNEss, TELL THEM ABOUT THE WONDERFUL POTENTIAL TO BYPASS DEATH. sUN RA I>E<EMER 1986 E§§g Qgm CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS,PETER HINDS AND CARL LEBLANC. AFTERNOON or ocrossn 31,l988.BEST WESTERN MOTEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA. SUN RA:GO OUT IN THE DESERT(EGYPT)AND JUST STAY THERE.I'M NOT UNINTELLIGIBLE ON IT.I'D GO RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.IT'S BECAUSE (OF)THIS CAMEL DRIVER.HE SAID I CAN COME OUT...I CAN BRING THE BAND AND,YOU KNOW,THEY GOT SOME WONDERFUL TENTS THERE'CAUSE WE WOULD BE OUT IN THE DESERT.HE SAID HIS FAMILY HAD MOVED TO THE CITY.THEY MOVED TO THE CITY.IN(AN)APARTMENT.AND THIS TENT IS OUT THERE.HE SAY ALL I NEED ME SOME WATER.WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY NOTHING.CAMEL IS THERE...
Show moreI'M A sPIRIT MASTER. I'VE BEEN TO A zONE wHERE THERE Is NO AIR, NO LIGHT, NO sOUNI>, NO LIEE, NO DEATH, NOTHING . . . THERE's FIVE BILLION PEOPLE ON THIs PLAN ET, ALL OUT OE TUNE. I'VE c.OT TO RAIsE THEIR <ONscIOUsNEss, TELL THEM ABOUT THE WONDERFUL POTENTIAL TO BYPASS DEATH. sUN RA I>E<EMER 1986 E§§g Qgm CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS,PETER HINDS AND CARL LEBLANC. AFTERNOON or ocrossn 31,l988.BEST WESTERN MOTEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA. SUN RA:GO OUT IN THE DESERT(EGYPT)AND JUST STAY THERE.I'M NOT UNINTELLIGIBLE ON IT.I'D GO RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.IT'S BECAUSE (OF)THIS CAMEL DRIVER.HE SAID I CAN COME OUT...I CAN BRING THE BAND AND,YOU KNOW,THEY GOT SOME WONDERFUL TENTS THERE'CAUSE WE WOULD BE OUT IN THE DESERT.HE SAID HIS FAMILY HAD MOVED TO THE CITY.THEY MOVED TO THE CITY.IN(AN)APARTMENT.AND THIS TENT IS OUT THERE.HE SAY ALL I NEED ME SOME WATER.WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY NOTHING.CAMEL IS THERE.I CAN GO OUT THERE WHEN I WANT TO AND I'D LIKE THAT.I KNOW THE BAND AIN'T...THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY WOULDN'T EVEN WANT TO DO NOTHING LIKE THAT.SO THEY STANDING IN MY WAY THEN.AND THEY WOULDN'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE TO ME.I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE OUT THERE WITH THE BEDOUINS.NOW I CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM.THERE WAY OF LIFE AND...I'D LIKE THAT.SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING.I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING.THEY ALL GOT SOMETHING TO OFFER.DEFINATELY.THEY ALL GOT SOMETHING TO OFFER.BUT YOU HAVE TO...YOU HAVE TO BRING IT OUT.I COULD DO THAT. I'D BE DOING THAT WITH MUSICIANS.THEY COME IN THIS BAND AND ALL AT ONCE THEY BE PLAYING SOMETHING THEY NEVER DREAMED.THEY NEVER DREAMED THEY CAN DO THAT.THEY COMES OUT.AND I DON'T CARE WHO LEAVES.THE BAND BE GETTING BETTER.SO THEN IT COMES DOWN TO,MY SPIRIT IS VERY ACTIVE AND PEOPLE CAN FEEL THAT MUSIC AND FEEL THAT,YOU KNOW,ON THAT BANDSTAND.YEAH.IT'S REAL ALLRIGHT.UNIN- TELLIGIBLE WE GOT A CREATOR JUST SITTING UP THERE WAITING FOR PEOPLE...TO REALISE THE TRUTH.HE AIN'T NEVER HAD,NOT EVEN ONE PERSON TO TELL THE TRUTH.NOT ONE.AND THAT'S THE REASON THE BIBLE SAID THAT HE WOULD...THAT THE CONDITION OF THE WORLD, HE WOULD NOT LISTEN TO ABRAHAM...NOBODY.ALL THE HOLY MEN.HE SAID HE AIN'T LETTING THEM SPEAK(AND)THEY CAN'T DO NOTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION. HE NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO THEM.THAT'S IN THE BIBLE.SO THE HOLY PEOPLE CANNOT SPEAK FOR HUMANITY.THE BOOK SAYS SO.THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT.THEY WEREN'T PURE ENOUGH.SO IT COMES DOWN TO(THE)PURE IN HEART SHALL SEE GOD.AND THE PURE IN HEART CAN SEE GOD(THEY)DON'T DIE.BUT FOR THE OTHER PEOPLE SEEING(GOD),THE BOOK SAYS THEY'LL ' DIE.MAN CANNOT SEE GOD AND LIVE.BUT IT DOES SAY(THE)PURE IN HEART CAN SEE HIM.BUT,NOW,HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN FIND THIS PURE...IN HEART.YOU SEE,IT'S AN EQUATION.THE CREATOR GOT THESE EQUATIONS. THEY(ARE)MEAN EQUATIONS,ALLRIGHT.I'VE SOLVED THEM,THOUGH.I WAS HELPED TO SOLVE THEM.BUT ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE HEADED STRAIGHT TO THE CEMETARY.RICH ONES.POOR ONES.WHITE ONES.BLACK ONES.UNINTEL— LIGIBLE.ALL OF THEM.EVERY TIME I GO TO THE CITY,YOUR NICE CITY AND AFTER A WHILE I'LL PASS A CEMETARY.AND I KNOW THAT CEMETARIES ARE SAYING PEOPLE ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.I CAN GO TO EGYPT. RIGHT BY THE PYRAMID,ABOUT A BLOCK AWAY,YOU CAN SEE A CEMETARY. RIGHT THERE.THEN YOU GO TO GERMANY.YOU WILL PASS A CEMETARY. EVERY WHERE YOU GO THERE ARE CEMETARIES.NOW,A PLACE(EARTH) THAT'S TALKING ABOUT THEY WORSHIP FROM GOD,(THAT)THEY GOT FAITH,THEY NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE NO CEMETARIES.AND THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANY JAILS.AIN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE NO HOSPITAL,NO UNDERTAKERS,NO- THING LIKE THAT.BUT THEN...THEY DO HAVE THEM.AND THEY SHUT THEIR EYES TO IT AND TRY TO MAKE IT LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO HEAVEN AND...NOW,THE BAD PART ABOUT IT;WHEN THEY SO CALLED DIE THEY NOT DEAD.THEY PERFECT(LY)CONSCIOUS OF THINGS.YES THEY ARE.THEY JUST DON'T HAVE NO BODIES.BUT SOMETIMES THEY DO COME IN TO BODIES AND DO SOME OF THE THINGS THEY WERE DOING BEFORE THEY LEFT.THEY COME INTO(A)PERSON AND THEY CALL UP A SESSION AND THEY GO OUT AND KILL SOMEBODY,HAVE SEX OR USE SOME DOPE AND IF THAT PERSON AIN'T GOT THEMSELVES TOGETHER THEY CAN FALL PREY TO THOSE WHO DIE AND COME BACK INTO THEIR BODIES. ' JOHN HINDS:WELL,DOESN'T THAT HAPPEN.SOMETIMES PEOPLE DIE AND THEY SAY,THE DOCTORS SAY OH,THIS PERSON IS DEAD AND THEY'RE,THEY COME BACK AND THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY'RE LAYING THERE SAYING I'M NOT DEAD,I'M NOT DEAD.AND THEY'RE LAYING THERE.PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY'RE DEAD. ' SR.AND,THEN AGAIN,IT COULD BE A SPIRIT THAT'S TOOK OVER,IT CAME BACK AND SAID IT(FOR)THAT PERSON.SO WE OVER IN THIS MYSTERY THING.YEAH.IT COULD NOT BE THE PERSON.THEN AGAIN IT COULD BE. IT COULD BE THAT YOU HAVE IN A PERSONS BODY TWO BEINGS.ONE OF THEM IS IN CAPTIVITY TO THE OTHER.MAYBE YES.THEY PUT ON UNIN- TELLIGIBLE.BUT(iT'S)NOT NECESSARY.NOT NECESSARY.AND ALL THESE THINGS BE HAPPENING LIKE IN A PLAY.NONE OF IT REAL.CREATOR DON'T REGARD NONE OF IT.'CAUSE IT HERE TODAY AND GONE TOMORROW.HE'S ETERNAL SO THEREFORE HE KNOW THIS STUFF AIN'T NOTHING.DON'T MEAN NOTHING TO HIM.WELL.ONE THING,IF A PERSON IS INNOCENT AND PURE IN HEART THEY DO MATTER.AND HE GET RID OF THE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT ONE INNOCENT PURE PERSON.NOW,HE TEACHES SOMETHING ELSE BUT,I'M TELLING YOU,HE'D GET RID OF THE WHOLE WORLD FOR THE SAKE OF ONE INNOCENT PERSON.'CAUSE THEM OTHER PEOPLE;HE CAN'T USE THEM.THEY DON'T...MAKE HIM THINK THAT,WELL,HE WAS A FAILURE IN PRODUCING A MAN.BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT CAPABLE OF ELEVATING THEMSELVES CON- STANTLY EVOLVING THEY'RE NO GOOD.JUST MADE SOMETHING THAT'S A BIG DUMMY.AND MOST MEN ARE.THEY'RE BIG DUMIES.BUT,YOU KNOW...I KNOW THE FOLKS IN THIS BAND,NOW,THEY HAVE TO BE IN THIS BAND AND THEY CAN'T...IF THEY GOT A FAMILY...HE(JOHN ORE)GOT A FAMILY.HE JUST TOLD ME...HE DOING NOTHING ON THAT BANDSTAND.HE DOESN'T UNDER- STAND UNINTELLIGIBLE.AFTER HE GET OFF THE BANDSTAND EVERYTHING IS EMPTY AND IT AIN'T NO GOOD.SO I SAID,YOU'VE EVOLVED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU GOT TO CREATE.AND THEY'RE EVOLVED.THAT JOHN ORE AND THEN I TRY TO GET RID OF HIM...HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE BAND SO I CAN'T.CAN'T GET RID OF HIM...THE REASON I TALK ABOUT HIM SO BAD(IS)THAT HE'D LIKE TO COME AND SEE ME BUT EVERYTIME HE COME AROUND I TALK ABOUT HIM I SAY I DON'T KNOW NOTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT HIM.THE SAY HE DON'T KNOW NOTHING GOOD,EITHER.SO IF HE DON'T KNOW HOW CAN I KNOW?AS HE OPENED MY EYES I CAN SEE THAT AIN'T NO MAN WORTH NOTHING.THIS(IS)SHADOWS AND SHELLS.THEY CAN'T DO NOTHING BUT DIE OR HAVE TROUBLE OR BE SICK.THEY CAN'T DO ANY- THING IF THEY WANTED TO.NOW,WHEN THE CREATOR OPENED MY EYES AND I SAW THAT,IT'S TERRIFYING.AND MEN WALKING AROUND,INTELLIGENT AND EVERYTHING.LOOK LIKE THEY'RE GOING SOMEWHERE OR DOING SOME- THING.YOU GOT A WHOLE WORLD HEADED TOWARD THE CEMETARY AND DON'T KNOW IT.AND I JUMP OUT THERE AND INTERFERE.AND,YOU KNOW,(WHEN) YOU WORSHIP THE CREATOR HE'LL TELL YOU TO DO SOMETHING...IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS SOMETIMES.RIDICULOUS.BUT THAT'S 'CAUSE IT'S SO FAR FROM WHAT THE WORLD IS USED TO.THAT'S THE REASON IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS.BUT IT'S NOT RIDICULOUS.AND I TOLD HIM,'BEHOLD THE RIDICULOUS I AND THE COSMOS ME.'S0,HITLER WROTE HIS BOOK AND I'VE GOT MINE OUT THERE.I TOLD HIM,'THE RIDICULOUS I AND THE COSMOS ME.'(REFERRING TO SUN RA'S POEM,THE RIDICULOUS I)SO I TOLD HIM. WE GOT IT ALL OUT THERE.IT'S WRITTEN DOWN THERE AND I SAID.'RE- SIST ME AND MAKE ME STRONG.'SO WHEN THEY RESIST ME THEY MAKE ME STRONGER.BECAUSE I KNOW I'M DEALING WITH THE CREATOR.AND THEY AIN'T GOING TO WIN.THEY WILL NOT WIN.THEY CAN FORGET IT.THEY GOT FIVE BILLION PEOPLE THAT'S GOING TO LOSE.THIS CREATOR,WHEN HE SENDS SOMEBODY... THAT'S IT... FOR THE WORLD.NOW,HE SENT THAT JESES,THE WORLD BEEN IN TROUBLE EVER SINCE.AND CAN'T EVEN SEE IT. AND HE PUT THEM IN TROUBLE.TALKING ABOUT HE CAME TO BRING A SOUL. HE CAME TO BRING DIVISION.HE CAME TO TURN SON AGAINST FATHER. THINK NOT THAT I CAME OF PEACE.I CAME TO BRING A SWORD.MY PEACE I GIVE YOU NOT AS A WORLD KILLER.HE MADE TWO KINDS OF PEACES.HE MESSED THESE FOLKS UP.AND THEN HE TOOK THE ALPHABETS AND SWITCHED THEM AROUND.FIRST SHALL BE LAST,LAST SHALL BE FIRST.SO HE INVERTED THINGS.SO,YOU SEE,LIKE,THE FELLOWS IN THE BAND,NOW, THEY GOT TO EVOLVE AND LISTEN TO WHAT I GOT TO SAY.THEY GOT TO READ,I MEAN,THEY GOT TO KNOW THINGS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.THEY HAVE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.THIS CREATOR(WILL)COME THROUGH AND GET RID OF THEM.IT'S SOMETHING HE WANT ME TO DO SO ANYBODY IN THE WAY...THEY CAN FORGET IT.CAN'T HAVE THAT.NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT.YES,IT'S DRASTIC.I NEED THINGS...I MEAN.IT WOULD BE QUITE EASY IF I JUST DEALT WITH ONE NATION.THIS CREATOR DON'T CARE ABOUT ONE UNINTEL- LIGIBLE.IT'S WHOLESALE OR NOTHING AT ALL.ALL OR NOTHING AT ALL. I CAN GET OUT THERE AND JUST HELP BLACK PEOPLE(BUT)HE DON'T PLAY THAT.I COULDN'T GET OUT THERE AND...HE DON'T PLAY THAT.EVERYBODY DIES,SO WHAT HE WANT IS FOR EVERYBODY TO BE ALIVE,YOU MIGHT SAY. SO,THEN,YOU CAN'T LET THEM FOLKS STAY IN THE CEMETARY.THEY DID ¥ MORE GOOD THAN THESE(PEOPLE)WALKING AROUND HERE SO HE AIN'T THAT KIND OF CREATOR.THEY COMING OUT(OF)THAT CEMETARY.THEY COMING OUT. BIG JOB.IF ALL THE FOLKS IN THE CEMETARY COME OUT WHILE WOULDN'T BE NO...IT WOULD BE STANDING ROOM ONLY BUT,SEE,HE GOT IT FIXED UP WHERE THINGS CAN HAPPEN.SPACESHIPS BEEN COMING,TAKE HIM AWAY.HE GOT IT ALL FIXED UP.IT'S JUST SOMEONE IN HUMAN FORM GOT TO INITIATE IT.IT'S JUST LIKE...THIS PLANET SITTING OUT HERE ALL ALONE BY ITSELF SO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTAL THINGS AND THEIR OWN LAWS.HE'S NOT GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THEIR LAWS.NOW,IF THEY WANT TO BE PART OF HIS GOVERNMENT THEY HAVE TO SAY SO. AND YOU HAVE TO PASS LAWS THAT IT'S ALLRIGHT.HE'S NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING.THEY HAVE TO DO IT.THEY SEPERATED THEMSELVES AWAY FROM HIM AND THEY HAVE TO GET BACK OVER INTO THE COUNCIL OF...INTER- GALACTIC COUNCIL.AND THEY HAVE TO THINK THOUGHTS LIKE THAT.THEY CAN'T STAY DOWN HERE BY THEMSELVES ANY MORE.'CAUSE THEY AIN'T THE IuDI<uI.ous I A 1'ou<I-I as THE IuDIcUI.ous I am can can 0 TOUCH oI= THE RIDICULOUS I HEAR! HEAR! HEAR. . . . WILDERNESS HERE SEE AND FEEL AND KNOW THE IuDI<uI.ous I AND THE cosmos ME! SUN RA MAKING IT.THEY AIN'T GOING TO MAKE IT.NO,NO.NO'CAUSE HE'S(GOING TO)THROW ALL THIS STUFF THERE,ALL THESE INVENTIONS AND THINGS. EVERYDAY(THERE)IS SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT'S INCREDIBLE.AND THEY CANNOT STAND STILL.AND THAT'S THE REASON HE'S DOING IT.THEY CAN- NOT STAND STILL ANY LONGER.THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THESE INVENTIONS AND DO SOMETHING WITH THEM OR HE'LL GIVE IT TO ANOTHER NATION. YOU GET THEM JAPANESE SITTING OVER THERE WITH THESE SKYSCRAPERS AND EVERYTHING AND THEY IGNORANT.THEY DON'T KNOW NOTHING.THEY JUST PUPPETS AND PAWNS BUT...HE CAN USE THEM.AND HE GOT RUSSIANS SITTING OVER THERE...HE CAN USE THEM.THEY ALL UP ON HIM,SEE.CARE NOTHING ABOUT NATIONS,THE PERSON.HIS SPIRIT GET OVER THERE(AND) THAT'S IT.THAT'S WHAT MADE AMERICA GREAT.THE SPIRIT OF GOD...WAS OUT THERE.THAT MADE AMERICA GREAT.IT WASN'T THE PEOPLE AND THE DEMOCRACY AND ALL THAT.IT WASN'T THEM.HE DID(IT).AND THEN YOU GOT ALL THIS REMARKABLE PROGRESS.THEY STILL AHEAD OF EVERYBODY.ALL THEY NEED IS ME BUT THEN I'M NOT FOR SALE AND I'M NOT SEEKING TO BE NO LEADER....AND THIS CREATOR(LAUGHS)...YOU KNOW,IT'S LAUGHABLE IN A SENSE,THE THINGS HE BE TELLING ME.TODAY HE TOLD ME,NOW,JUST GO OUT THERE AND TELL THE WHITE HOUSE YOU'RE THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE LIVING GOD.I'M NOT GOING TO DO NOTHING LIKE THAT.WHY SHOULD I DO THAT?SHOULD TELL THEM.PRIME MINISTER.HE SAID THEY GOT ALL THEM MINISTERS AND THINGS BUT ONLY THE PRIME MINIS- TER HAS AUTHORITY.YOU SEE,HE DON'T CARE ABOUT NO MINISTERS.THEY DON'T REPRESENT HIM.THEY GOT TO BE A PRIME MINISTER.NOW,YOU DON'T HAVE NO PRIME MINISTERS IN THE CHURCHES.JUST GOT MINISTERS. (SUN RA,JOHN AND PETER HINDS LAUGH)THEY AIN'T GOT NO AUTHORITY. THE PRIME MINISTER...(CARL LEBLANC ENTERS ROOM RETURNING FROM A SUCCESFUL SEARCH FOR SHEET MUSIC)YEAH,SHOW THEM UP CARL. CARL LEBLANC:NEVER FEAR,CARL IS HERE. PETER HINDS:LOOK AT THAT.LOOK AT THAT.AMAZING. SR:SEE,NOW THEY(JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS)STAY RIGHT HERE AND THEY COULDN'T DO THAT DETECTIVE WORK. CL:THEY HAD TREES IN THREE KEYS.I GOT THE ONE IN C.THEY HAD IT IN 'E.D AND C. SR:NOW,WHAT IS THAT?RIGHT HERE IN YOUR(JH AND PH)OWN HOME TOWN. ' PI-I:THAT IS AMAZING. JH:THAT'S IMPRESSIVE. CL:YOU SHOULD SEE THE STORE,SONNY.IT WAS A OLD LADY WITH ALL KIND OF MUSIC IN BOXES AND IT LOOKED LIKE,I DON'T KNOW.IT DON'T LOOK LIKE SHE GET THEM FROM PUBLISHERS... SR:WHAT'S HER NAME? CL:THE NAME OF IT IS... SR:WHAT'S HER NAME? CL:WELL,I DON'T KNOW HER NAME. SR:WELL,YOU KNOW,IT'S A WOMAN HERE THAT THE ONLY SOMEBODY THAT KNOW WHO IT IS IS RONALD WILSON.I AIN'T SPEAKING TO HIM.BUT THIS WOMAN HERE NAMED SILVER BELL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.YOU ALL SHOULD INVESTIGATE THAT.AND SHE SAID THAT IN NEW YORK CITY DUKE ELLINGTON HAD,HE WAS OVER THERE WITH IRVING MILLS AND ALL THAT, AND HE HAD A LOT OF COMPOSITIONS UP THERE IN THE OFFICE.NOW.HE WENT THERE...YOU KNOW,HE WAS SUPPOSED TO GET A PERCENTAGE AND THINGS,ROYALTIES.AND HE WAS EXAMINING THE BOOKS.ONE DAY HE WENT THERE(AND)HE FOUND OUT THAT IRVING MILLS HAD TWO BOOKS.ONE OVER THERE WITH...AND ANOTHER ONE.AND THE SECRETARY GAVE DUKE ELLING- TON THE RIGHT BOOKS.THEN HE FOUND OUT HOW HE HAD BEEN CHEATED.SO, THEN,HE AND IRVING MILLS CAME TO A PARTING OF THE WAYS.SO,THEN, IRVING MILLS WAS INFURIATED.HE TOOK SOME COMPOSITIONS OF DUKE ELLINGTON THAT HADN'T REALLY BEEN PUBLISHED,BUT IT WAS IN THE OFFICE,AND TOOK THEM ALL AND THREW THEM IN THE EAST RIVER.NOW, THIS WOMAN WHO KNOWS THAT STAYS HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO.AND SHE AND HER HUSBAND WENT AND FISHED THE COMPOSITIONS OUT OF THE RIVER.REALLY,SHE GOT THEM.SHE'S HERE.AND THAT RONALD WILSON KNOWS HER. JH:AND HER NAME IS? SR:SHE GOT A STRANGE NAME.BELL OR SILVER...SOMETHING LIKE THAT. CL:BUCKNER MUSIC.THIS IS THIS LADY.BUCKNER. SR:YOU KNOW,SOMETHING ELSE THAT I WANTED BUT I COULDN'T THINK OF IT.BUT I KNOW THIS TREES...SEE,I HAVEN'T REALLY PUT OUT ARRANGE- MENTS THAT I CAN.I CAN SELL A SONG THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE AMAZED HOW BEAUTIFUL A SONG COULD BE.I'M VERY GOOD AT CHORAL WORK.ANY FORM OF MUSIC.'CAUSE THE CREATOR TAUGHT ME.I TAKE THIS SONG AND MAKE PEOPLE REALLY HERE IT BECAUSE ALL THEY'VE HEARD THE SONG... THEY HAVEN'T HEARD IT.THEY HAVEN'T HEARD IT.WHERE HE SAY;I THINK I SHALL NEVER SEE A POEM LOVELY AS A TREE.THIS IS VERY BEAUTIFUL. I REALLY THOUGHT THAT JOYCE KILMER WAS A WOMAN.BUT THEY SAY IT WAS A MAN.YOU KNOW1,THAT'S WHY I GOT TO INVESTIGATE THAT. CL:A MAN WROTE THE MUSIC.OSCAR... SR:WELL,HE MIGHT HAVE WROTE THE(MUSIC)...BUT JOYCE KILMER... CL:WROTE THE LYRICS.SO IT WAS OK TO GET IT IN C,HUH,SUNNY?I FIG- URED IF YOU WANTED TO TRANSPOSE IT THAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST KEY TO START WITH.THEY HAD IT IN...FOUR SHARPS,TWO SHARPS AND... SR:ONLY GOD CAN MAKE A TREE.POEMS ARE MADE BY FOOLS LIKE ME.ONLY GOD CAN MAKE A TREE.THEY GOT A REST STOP NAMED JOYCE KILMER IN NEW JERSEY.WELL,I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE PERSON WAS BORN.JOYCE KILMER.SO,YEH WELL,THIS IS... JH:I HAVE THAT ON RECORD.AT LEAST FLETCHER HENDERSON DOING IT. SR:THIS IS VERY...A BIG CRISIS FOR ME'CAUSE...IF I GO OUT THERE - NOW...THAT IS UNINTELLIGIBLE ABOUT THE EGYPTIANS WAITING FOR ME TO COME BACK.I HAD NO UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR NO EGYPTIANS.AND MUSLIMS.I'D TAKE ALL THEM OVER.I DON'T NEED THEM.NOT ME PERSON- ALLY.AND THE CREATOR SAYS THAT...HE SAID SOMETHING TO ME ONE TIME IN ITALY.THEY WANTED ME TO COME TO MEDINA.I SAID,'I DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NO MEDINA.'THEY SEY,'WELL,WE CAN'T MAKE NO PROGRESS WITHOUT YOU.'I SAID,'BUT WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ME?'THEY SAID THAT RULERS KNOW ABOUT YOU.THEY SAID THE WORLD IS A KIND OF PLACE WHERE A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN.WE CAN'T MAKE NO PRO- GRESS UNLESS YOU SAY SO.COME WITH US TO MEDINA.I SAID I'M NOT GOING.AND THEY SAID,'REPEAT THIS AFTER ME.'AND THEY WANTED ME TO REPEAT THAT I BELIEVE IN THE ONE GOD.AND I SAID.'WELL,I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THAT.BECAUSE EVERY MAN IS A PROPHET.SO THEN I BE- LIEVE ANY MAN IS A PROPHET IF THE CREATOR WANT HIM TO BE.SO THEN I DON'T HAVE TO SAY THAT.BELIEVING IN ONE MAN BEING A PROPHET. EACH ONE OF THEM BE A(PROPHET)...SO,THEREFORE,I AGREE.AS FAR AS ALLAH IS CONCERNED.ONE GOD.IT'S SPELLED WITH A SMALL G SO...MAY— BE SO.THEY WOULD NEVER SPELL(IT)WITH A CAPITAL G.IT'S ALL WITH A SMALL G.AND WHEN YOU SPELL SOMETHING WITH A SMALL G THEY TALKING ABOUT SATAN.IN THE BIBLE,WHEN THEY SAY THAT SATAN IS THE GOD OF THIS WORLD HE GOT A SMALL G.NOT A CAPITAL G. CL:THEY HAD A MAN ON TV SUNDAY SAYING THAT GOD GAVE LUCIFER THE EARTH FOR HIS DOMAIN BUT HE WASN'T SATISFIED.HE TRIED TO RISE UP AND TAKE HEAVEN,TOO. ‘ SR:WHO WANTS HEAVEN?IT'S A PLACE OF WAR,YOU KNOW.THE BIBLE SAID THERE'S WAR IN HEAVEN.NOW,DON'T NOBODY WANT,ANYBODY INTELLIGENT WOULD NOT WANT A KINGDOM WHERE THERE IS WAR GOING ON.NOW,HEAVEN IS NOT A NICE PLACE.IT SAID THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN.MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT AGAINST THE DRAGON AND HIS ANGELS.SO IF YOU GO UP THERE THEY'RE GOING TO CONSCRIPT YOU.YOU'RE GOING TO EITHER BE FOR THE DRAGON OR YOU'RE GOING TO BE FOR MICHAEL.MICHAEL,ANYWAY, ALL OVER EUROPE THEY GOT MICHAEL WITH HIS FOOT ON THE HEAD OF A BLACK MAN.MOST CERTAIN(LY)I GOT THAT PICTURE.ALL OVER EUROPE THEY GOT THE ANGEL MICHAEL,WHO IS WHITE,WITH HIS WINGS AND HIS SWORD, STANDING OVER A BLACK MAN THAT'S LAYING DOWN ON A PIT OF FIRE WITH THE FIRE ON HIS BACK AND MICHAEL'S FOOT IS ON HIS HEAD. AND THE BLACK MAN GOT DRAGON WINGS.HE GOT WINGS,TOO.THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT IN EUROPE.THEY DEPICTING THE BLACK MAN AS THE DEVIL WHICH I AIN'T GOING TO SAY NOTHING.HE PROBABLY IS.HE PROBABLY IS. I DON'T KNOW NOTHING,YOU KNOW.I JUST KNOW WHAT I SEE AND I KNOW THEY GOT THIS WHITE ANGEL WITH ALL THEM WINGS,GREAT BIG OLD WINGS AND THIS SWORD AND THE SCALE OF JUSTICE IN HIS HAND.HE GOT THAT. HE GOT THE SCALE OF JUSTICE IN HIS HAND LIKE THAT AND HE GOT THE SWORD IN HIS HAND AND EVIDENTLY HE SAYING THAT THE BLACK MAN DIDN'T COME UP TO THE STANDARD AND THE ANGELS GOT THIS SWORD ON HIS HEAD UNTILL HE DOES.THEY GOT THAT THERE.AND I'M LOOKING AT BLACK PEOPLE SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS WHITE UNINTEL- LIGIBLE BUT I KNOW WHAT'S WRONG.BUT THE BIBLE SAID THEY CAN'T BE HELPED UNTILL THEY CONDEMNED.AIN'T NO BLACK COME UP AND TOLD A BLACK MAN HOW WRONG HE IS.THAT HAS TO HAPPEN FIRST.RESURECTION TO SHAME IS TWO RESURECTION.ONE OF THEM IS TO SHAME.AND A BLACK MAN HAVE TO BE...SAY,YOU KNOW.YOU DOING WRONG.YOU DOING WRONG. AND I ALWAYS BE TELLING IT.I HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT.AND THAT'S THE REASON ELO(OMOE)SAID HE'D BE SCARED TO COME TO SEE ME BE- CAUSE I TALK ABOUT HIM SO BAD.BUT I'M TRYING TO WAKE HIM.I SAID, 'YOU KNOW WHAT?IF I GOT IN TROUBLE AND I WANTED TO PUT YOU UP FOR COLLATERAL WOULDN'T NOBODY GIVE ME NO MONEY,ELO.'I SAID,'YOU TOO, BUSTER(SMITH).'SO BUSTER WALKED OUT.THEY CAN'T STAND IT.SO I CAN'T DO NOTHING...THE BIBLE SAYS I BEGIN TO WORK EVIL IN MY HOUSEHOLD.SO IF I'M GOING TO GO OUT THERE AND TALK ABOUT THE WORLD FIRST I HAVE TO TALK ABOUT EVERYBODY IN THIS BAND.AND I BE DOING THAT.I'M FOLLOWING THE BOOK.IT SAYS I BEGIN TO WORK EVIL AT MY HOUSEHOLD.BUT THEN YOU GOT JESUS SAYING I WORK IN MY FATHER WORK(?).THEN YOU GOT HIM SAYING THE WORKS OF THE WORLD ARE EVIL. SO HE WASN'T DOING NOTHING GOOD'CAUSE THE BOOK SAID(LAUGHS)THE WORKS OF THE WORLD ARE EVIL.HE DIDN'T SAY THE WORKS OF THE WORLD ARE GOOD.IT SAID EVIL.NOW,WORKS...YOU SEE,THE BOOK IS VERY IN- VOLVED AND THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT.LIKE THIS MAN IN RUSSIA...THE HEAD OF RUSSIA(GORBACHEV)SAID THAT ANY OF THEM JEWS CAN LEAVE ANY TIME THEY WANT TO.BUT THE POINT OF IT:DON'T NOBODY WANT THEM.THAT FRANCE DON'T WANT THEM.GERMANY...NOBODY WANT THEM JEWS AND THERE AIN'T ENOUGH ROOM IN ISRAEL FOR THEM SO,REALLY,THEY FREE TO LEAVE ANYTIME THEY WANT.BUT,HE SAID HE TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA AND THEY OVER THERE IN RUSSIA AND RUSSIA WANTS THEM AND HE SAID HE AIN'T FORBIDDING THEM TO BE THERE BUT IF RUSSIA WANTED THEM TO SEND THEM TO FRANCE,FRANCE DON'T WANT THEM.GERMANY DON'T WANT THEM. IS NOT ONE COUNTRY IN ALL OF EUROPE THAT WILL WANT JEWS TO COME AND STAY IN THEIR COUNTRY.ON SIXTY MINUTES HE SAID THAT.SO THERE YOU ARE.SO WHAT'S WRONG?THS TRUTH GOT TO COME OUT.THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG.LOT OF BLACK FOLKS SAYING THEY THE JEWS BUT...WHY?IT AIN'T NO GOOD TO BE A JEW SINCE THEY TEACHING THAT JEWS ARE THE CAUSE OF(AN)INNOCENT MAN DYING ON THE CROSS.THAT AIN'T NO GOOD.SO WHY THEY GOING TO SAY THAT?IF THEY(ARE)THE ORIGINAL JEWS THEN THEY THE ONES WHO DID IT.THEY TALKING THEMSELVES INTO TROUBLE.YEAH, THEY DONE IT.AND IN THE WORLD,SEE,ALL THE ONES WHO PUT CHRIST ON THE CROSS IS BLACK.I KNOW THAT'S TRUE 'CAUSE IN CHICAGO I WAS TALKING...THEY WAS WONDERFUL IN CHICAGO'CAUSE THEY HAD A PARK CALLED WASHINGTON PARK AND I WOULD GO OUT THERE(IN THE FIFTIES) AND THE COMMUNISTS HAD A FORUM AND THE BLACK MUSLIMS HAD A FORUM AND THE PRESBYTERIANS HAD A FORUM,THE DEMOCRATS HAD A FORUM.THEY HAD ABOUT TEM FORUMS OUT THERE.EVERYDAY I'D GO OUT THERE IN THAT PARK.ALL OF THEM BLACK...I'D GO OUT WITH MY BOOK SO I STUDIED. TEN OR TWELVE BOOKS.I'D SIT ON THE BENCH IN THE SUN AND UNINTEL- ' LIGIBLE.IT'S ALL BLACK PEOPLE.THEY COME AND THEY STAND AROUND ME BY THE BENCH.AIN'T SAYING NOTHING AND FINALLY THE ONE(THAT)WAS UP THERE TELLING THE BLACK UNINTELLIGIBLE,WELL,HE CAME DOWN TO THE BENCH AND SAID,'YOU KNOW,EVERYTIME YOU COME OUT HERE PEOPLE BE LEAVING THE FORUM COMING DOWN WHERE YOU ARE.'I SAID,'I DIDN'T SEND FOR THEM.I'M BUSY STUDYING THINGS.YOU(ARE)THE ONE WHO WANT THEM.I DON'T WANT THEM.'HE SAY.'WHY DON'T YOU COME UP TO THE FORUM AND TALK TO THEM?'I SAID,'YOU LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO LEAD.I AIN'T LOOKING FOR...I'M STUDYING.I'M TRYING TO SEE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PLANET.MAYBE I CAN CORRECT IT.I WANT TO BE SURE I'M RIGHT...CORRECT.'SO THEN ONE DAY HE CAME DOWN THERE AGAIN;ONCE HE EVEN TOOK THE FOLKS AWAY FROM THE FORUM AGAIN.(HE SAID TO SUN RA)'COME UP AND TALK TO THEM.'THIS TIME I DID LEAVE THE BENCH AND I WENT UP AND STOOD NEAR THE FORUM.EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE FORUM JUMPED OVER THERE WHERE I WAS SO HE COME AND TOOK THE REST OF THE FOLKS AWAY FROM THE FORUM.HE SAY,'WELL,GO ON AND TALK TO THEM.'I DID TALK TO THEM.I SAY,'YOU KNOW,YOU(ARE)HERE IN AMERICA AND YOU DO A LOT OF GOOD THINGS BUT YOU DON'T GET NO RECOGNITION.YOU'RE VERY INVENTIVE,INTELLIGENT,YOU'VE BEEN LOYAL TO AMERICA.FOUGHT AND DIED FOR...YOU STILL DON'T HAVE NO RECOGNITION.NOW,WHY?I SAID YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE SOMEBODY CAME ALONG DOING SOME GOOD WORKS THAT YOU WOULDN'T RECOGNIZE IT.IT WAS YOU. AND THERE YOU OVER IN AMERICA DOING ALL THESE NICE THINGS.YOU DON'T GET NO RECOGNITION.NOW,THE ONE WHO CAME HERE WASN'T RECOG- NIZED WHO HEALED THE SICK AND RAISED THE DEAD WAS THE ONE THEY CALLED JESUS.THAT WAS YOU THAT WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE HIM.AND YOU ARE OVER HERE AND YOU NOT GETTING NO RECOGNITION FOR YOUR GOOD WORKS'CAUSE HE DIDN'T GET NOTHING FOR HIS.AND NOBODY WILL HELP YOU.NATIONS STANDING BACK AND LOOKING.THEY DOING THE SAME THING (THAT)HAPPENED TO HIM.I SAY YOU THE ONES THAT CRUCIFIED HIM.BUT THEN ALL THE ONES,IT WAS ABOUT FIVE HUNDRED BLACK PEOPLE STAND- ING AROUND,THEY JUMPED UP AND DOWN AND SHOOK THE EARTH SHOUTING NO,NO,NO,NO.I SAID YES.IT WAS YOU,ALLRIGHT.AND MILES DAVIS' BRO- THER WAS THERE,VERNON,AND THE BLACK MUSLIMS WERE SO ASTOUNDED. BUT THEY HAD BEEN LISTENING TO WHAT I HAD TO SAY AND THEY SAID, 'WELL,BROTHER,WE AIN'T NEVER SEEN BLACK FOLKS LIKE THIS.YOU MIGHT BE IN DANGER.WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.'BUT THEY GOT AROUND IN A CIRCLE AND VERNON,MILES DAVIS'BROTHER,AND THEY ENCIRCLED ME TO PROTECT ME FROM BLACK FOLKS THEY THOUGHT...AND THEY LED ME OUT THE PARK.THAT HAPPENED IN CHICAGO.SO I MUST HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH.WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?I SAID YOU THROW A STONE AND YOU HIT SOMEBODY THEY HOLLERS ON YOU.I TOLD THE TRUTH.AND THAT SPIRITUAL SOUL KNOW I TOLD THE TRUTH.I HURT THEM.AND IT UNINTELLIGIBLE LIKE THAT.THAT CHURCH OVER THERE TEACHES ABOUT THE CRUCIFICTION OF CHRIST SAVED THE WORLD.GOT TO GO.THE BLACK CHURCH GOT TO CHANGE THAT.GET RID OF THAT IDEA THAT THE CREATOR IS GOING TO LET AN INNOCEN-r MAN DIE. I CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA...LEAVING THE NEW GEORGE'S CLUB IN SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA.ONE THIRTY AM.SEPTEMBER 30,1986 . . . . . . ........ PETER HINDS:I THINK WE'RE ALL SET TO GO,SUN RA. SUN RA:OK.READY,MARTIN(BANKS)? MARTIN BANKS:WHERE WE GOING?HOME? SR:I'M GOING TO GET ME A CAT'O NINE TAILS FOR YOU.(PETER LAUGHS) SPARE THE ROD,SPOIL THE CHILD.(PETER AND JOHN LAUGH) JAMES JACSON:THEY DON'T MAKE THEM THAT BIG. MB:I FOUND A UNINTELLIGIBLE OVER THERE. SR:YOU NEED SOMEBODY ON YOU.YOU BEEN OUT HERE TOO LONG BEING FREE.IT'S OVER.YOU AND THE REST OF THE BLACK MEN.IT'S OVER.TAKE IT FROM ME. SUN RA:EVERYBODY HAVE TO STAND IN PLACE.IF DEATH COMES AGAINST YOU BE IN PLACE.WHY SHOULDN'T YOU BE IN PLACE WHEN I WANT YOU IN PLACE?I'M NOT DEATH.I DEMAND JUST AS MUCH RESPECT AS DEATH.DEATH COME TO GET A MAN HE'S RIGHT THERE OBEDIENT.ALWAYS READY-.. .._....._...-——~-» MARTIN BANKS:I'M GOING BACK HOME.(REPEATS THIS SEVERAL TIMES.) WHAT HAPPENED TO ME IS MY FALSE TOOTH KEPT FALLING OUT.I DIDN'T HAVE THAT GLUE.....THEY DIDN'T BRING MY GLUE FOR MY TEETH. SR:NO.THAT AIN'T NO EXCUSE.WELL,YOU HAD THEM.YOU HAD ALL THE TRUMPET PLAYING AND YOU PLAYED SOLO INSTEAD OF PLAYING YOUR HORN. I SAW THAT. MB:THAT'S THE REASON I DON'T WANT TO...THAT'S THE REASON I'M GOING TO GO ON BACK.I'M GOING TO GO ON BACK TO LA'CAUSE I DON'T WANT TO LIVE NOTHING LIKE THAT. DANNY THOMPSON:(STERNLY)WHERE YOU GOING,MARTIN?YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.YOU BETTER NOT GO NOWHERE. MB:WE GOING TO GO TO SAN FRANCISCO NOW,DON'T WE? DT:WE GOING TO SAN FRANCISCO.THAT'S WHERE YOU GOING. SR:HE JUST A BIG COWARD,THAT'S ALL.I NEVER THOUGHT I'D MEET SOME BLACK MEN WHO WAS COWARDS.I DIDN'T THINK THE CREATOR MADE SOME- THING LIKE THAT.I HAVE UNINTELLIGIBLE THE BLACK MAN.GETTING A LITTLE RESPECT FROM THEM.GET ME SOME WHITE ONES.GET ME SOME MEAN WHITE ONES... MB:NO,NO...YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT... .._;~_i.~ < ’:'»::Me-mt..\:».\w-r.:~(«~,.-.~.-a- I E 5 SR:FOR BLACK ONES.I WILL.I'LL GET ME SOME WHITE MUSICIANS IF . THESE BLACK ONES AIN'T...IF THEY CAN'T BE MEN LIKE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE...GOING TO BE BIG OLD BABIES.I DON'T NEED THEM.(STOPS WITH PETER,JOHN AND PAT PATRICK TO LOOK IN THE WINDOW OF A PAWN SHOP) A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS IN THERE. PAT PATRICK:CHECK THAT ONE.SEE THAT?SEE THAT BASS OVER THERE? THE SHRINE CLUB.(PAT AND SUN RA LAUGH) SR:THEY GOT A LOT OF STRANGE STUFF IN THERE.SHRINERS,HUH?PEOPLE BE INNOVATING.I LIKE PEOPLE THAT INNOVATE.BLACK FOLKS DON'T(HAVE) DO THE SAME THING ALL THE TIME.THE NEXT THING.I'M GOING TO GET ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER.IF YOU GO TO LOS ANGELES I'M GETTING ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER AND FROM THEN ON WHEN I REPLACE ONE I'LL GET ME A WHITE ONE.I'M NOT GOING TO BE BOTHERED... ME:YOU KNOW I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.YOU KNOW I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE. SUN RA:THE NEXT THING.I'M GOING TO GET ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER. IF YOU(MARTIN BANKS)GO TO LOS ANGELES I'M GETTING ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER AND FROM THEN ON WHEN I REPLACE ONE I'LL GET ME A WHITE ONE.I'M NOT GOING TO BE BOTHERED. MARTIN BANKS:YOU KNOW I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE. SR:I'M NOT GOING TO BE BOTHERED WITH NOBODY OBSTRUCTING ME NO MORE.THIS IS IT.I GOT A JOB TO DO HERE AND I'M JUST ONE PERSON AND THE CREATOR GOT ME HERE AND ALL THIS BULLSHIT AND I'M GETTING READY TO MOVE FORWARD.I DON'T CARE WHO IT HURTS.I'M TIRED.IT'S RIDICULOUS. ‘ JH:WHAT'S GOING ON TOMORROW?WHAT ARE YOU UP TO? SR:TOMORROW...TOMORROW I'M(GOING TO)LOOK FOR ME SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH SOME WILD HAIRDOS.I WANT TO HAVE ALL KIND OF HAIRDOS.'CAUSE I'M READY TO MOVE FORWARD.SO THEN THEY GOT TO BE LOOKING LIKE NOTHING ON THE PLANET.I'LL HAVE THEM AND I'LL TEACH THEM SOME THINGS I WANT THEM TO DO.I GOT TO HAVE PARTICULAR WHITE ONES'CAUSE I CANNOT MAKE IT WITH THE BLACK ONES NO MORE ALL BLACK.I GOT TO HAVE ME SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH THEM HAIRDOS.IT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE FROM OUTER SPACE.AND I'LL TEACH THEM HOW TO SING AND I CAN HAVE THEM TO BE RIGHT THERE AND I CAN DO MY DANCES WITH THEM AND SING WITH THEM AND SHAKE THE WORLD.I'M GOING TO SHAKE THE WORLD.BUT I WANT THEM TO HAVE...I WANT THEM TO BE... LOOK LIKE THEY FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.WITH THEM HAIRDOS AND THEM FACIAL AND THEM COSTUMES.I WANT THAT.I DON'T HAVE TIME TO TEACH THE BLACK ONES NO MORE.I'VE BEEN TEACHING MY WHOLE LIFETIME AND THEY DISAPPOINTING ME'CAUSE I'M A SPIRIT,YOU KNOW.I'M NOT NO MAN. I CAN'T BE SAYING...TELL A MAN THAT(TO)DO THIS THAT AND THE OTHER.I RECKON MAN IS JUST...TOO SLOW.I RECKON.I DON'T KNOW.AIN'T MY NATURE TO BE NO MAN.BUT IF THEY CLINGING ON TO THEIR EMOTIONS AND DOING THINGS TO SLOW UP I RECKON A TURTLE IS JUST A TURTLE. I CAN'T EXPECT A TURTLE TO JUMP UP AND RUN WITH ME.'CAUSE TURTLES CAN'T DO THAT.NOW,I RECKON YOU GOT SOME TURTLE MEN AND THEY JUST 11 GO ON AND BE TURTLES'CAUSE I'M NOT NO TURTLE.I MOVE FAST.I MOVE FAST.AND I'M GETTING READY...I'M GETTING READY TO MOVE FAST'CAUSE I'M LIKE THAT DRUMMER.I'M STILL PLAYING.AND I LIKE TO DO DIFFE- RENT THINGS.I LIKE TO DIFFERENT THINGS.WONDERFUL THINGS...AND I DON'T WANT TO JUST LIFT PEOPLES SPIRITS.I WANT TO LIFT MINE UP TOO.SO IF I'M DOING THEM DIFFERENT THINGS I'M HAPPY.BUT IF FOLKS SLOWING UP THEN IT DRAGS ME DOWN.I DON'T NEED NO GRAVITY TO BE DRAGGING ME DOWN.YOU'VE GOT SOME GRAVITY FOLKS.I'M TALKING ABOUT...YOU'VE GOT SOME GRAVITY MEN AND THEY'LL DRAG YOU ON DOWN THERE.I DON'T NEED THEM GRAVITY MEN.I NEED THESE SPIRITUAL.HAPPY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT REALLY ATTACHED TO THIS PLANE.AND YOU'VE GOT SOME.YOU'VE GOT SOME.NOW,HE'S ONE OF THEM(MARTIN BANKS)BUT HE OVER THERE...HE CAN PLAY THAT TRUMPET.BUT,HE GOT A LOT OF EARTH THINGS HANGING ON HIM. JH:THEY HAVE A WAY OF CLINGING,YOU KNOW.THOSE KIND OF THINGS.JUST KIND OF ARE ALWAYS WAITING.YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. SR:WELL,I CAN'T WAIT ON HIM NO MORE.THE CREATOR IS ALWAYS SAYING, ‘MOVING FORWARD.'NOW,HE TOLD ME GET ME SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH THEM HAIRDOS.THE WILDEST LOOKING I CAN FIND. JH:THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.THAT'S REALLY WILD. SR:AND THEN I DO MY SPACE STUFF.AND I CAN TEACH THEM SOME SPACE THINGS THAT THE WORLD NEVER HEARD BEFORE.THEY'LL LISTEN TO ME. 12 CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . . . . . . . . . .. NOVEMBER l,l988...ONE AM...SLIM'S...SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA..... SUN RA:ACTUALLY,WE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING AT SWEET BASIL RIGHT NOW.I CAME HERE INSTEAD.JACK(BOOKING AGENT JACK RICH)INSISTED I SHOULD COME HERE. PETER HINDS:WELL,YOU WERE HERE IN...'74 I THINK. SUN RA:ON HALLOWEEN? PETER HINDS:ON HALLOWEEN. JOHN HINDS:NO,THAT WAS NEW YEARS ACTUALLY. PETER HINDS:NO.BUT WASN'T HE HERE(IN)'74...? JOHN HINDS:OH,THAT'S RIGHT. PETER HINDS:THAT'S THE YEAR YOU LIVED IN SAN FRANCISCO FOR THREE MONTHS ON BAKER STREET.(ACTUALLY THREE AND A HALF MONTHS.ARRIVED IN MID SEPTEMBER) SR:UH HUH.I PROBABLY WAS.... PH:YEAH.YOU WERE AT THE KEYSTONE(KORNER). SR:OH,THAT'S HALLOWEEN. PH:YEAH,THAT WAS HALLOWEEN.'74.YOU WERE HERE OCTOBER,NOVEMBER (AND)DECEMBER AND LEFT ON NEW YEARS EVE(ACTUALLY LEFT JANUARY FIRST 1975).YOU PLAYED THE AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORICAL SOCIETY. THAT WAS SOMETHING. SR:WELL,I WAS SEEING WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE PLANET.SO I KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW. PH:THAT WAS THE NIGHT DANNY DAVIS LEFT THE BAND AND WENT BACK T0000 I SR:WELL,WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.THE CREATOR KEPT ME HIDDEN FROM HERE A LONG TIME.IF I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING I'D BE OUT ON THE ' I DESERT SOMEWHERE HIDING.I'D GET ME A NICE...DIG DOWN IN THERE AND HAVE ME A SAFE PLACE DOWN UP UNDER THE SAND'CAUSE THERE ARE SOME HOUSES BEING BUILT OUT THERE NOW.YOU CAN REALLY HIDE OUT THERE. PH:WHERE'S THAT NOW? SR:IN EGYPT.THE DESERT.THEY PUT SOME HOUSES OUT THERE.IT JUST A MATTER...THEY NEED WATER.BUT,I LIKE TO GO THERE...WELL,THE PEOPLE IN THE BAND WOULDN'T REALLY VENTURE(THERE).BUT SOMETIMES YOU SEE THEM BEDOUINS AND THEY'D BE OUT THERE IN A CAVE RIGHT UP ABOVE THE SPHINX.AND I STARTED TO GO UP THERE BUT I NEVER DID. 13.‘ \s\ 'CAUSE BETWEEN THEM...BETWEEN THE SPHINX AND THEM WAS THE CEME- TARY.AND YOU HAD TO WALK THROUGH THE CEMETARY TO GO UP THERE SO THAT DETERRED ME.DONT LIKE NO CEMETARIES.ANCIENT CEMETARY.AND THEY WAS UP THERE ON THE HILL IN BIG CAVES OVERHANGING...DRESSED IN BLACK.BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIKED ME SO WELL THEY'D GRAB ME AND TAKE ME WITH THEM SO I...I SAID I'M NOT GOING UP THERE. JH:BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY._ SR:BUT THEY GOT SOME ATTRIBUTES THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T HAVE. WELL,THEY SAY SOME OF THE SOLDIERS...YOU KNOW,WHEN THE WAR WAS GOING ON BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT(1967),THEY PLANTED MINES OUT THERE IN THE DESERT IN BETWEEN.AND THEY SAID THE BEDOUINS OFTEN COME INTO THE ARMY CAMP WITH THESE MINES.THEY(THE ARMY)DON'T GO OUT.THEY COME AND BRING THEM IN THERE AND LEAVE THEM AND THEY PAYING THEM FOR IT.AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW THEY DO IT.HOW THEY ABLE TO SMELL THESE...IT'S LIKE THEY CAN SMELL A MINE.AND THEY COME IN AND BRING THEM IN THERE...LIVE ONES ON THEIR CAMELS AND DEPOSIT(THEM)AND THEY PAY THEM.AND THEY CAN'T...THEY CAN'T UNDER- STAND HOW THEY DO IT AND HOW THEY FIND THOSE MINDS.SO THEN THEY DO HAVE THESE ATTRIBUTES THAT....THEY MOVE OUT SO THEY CAN HAVE THEIR TENTS AND EVERYTHING AND THE WEATHER'S NICE.THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT NO RAIN SO THEY JUST PICKUP...AND GO.UNINTELLIGI- BLE SOME OTHER KIND OF MEN.WHEN I GO TO EGYPT NEXT TIME I CAN GET TO KNOW SOME OF THEM.AND THEY AIN'T GOING TO BOTHER ME.BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER FELLOWS IN THE BAND.I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEM.THEY MIGHT BE SCARED OR SOMETHING.THEY MIGHT BE AND THEY (THE BEDOUINS)CAN FEEL THAT.AND THEY AIN'T SCARED OF NOTHING. THEY CAN MEET A MAN(WHO IS)AFRAID(AND)THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. HE MIGHT ATTACK SO WHAT IS THIS?(LAUGHS)LOOKED AT,LIKE,ME AND SCARED OF ME UNINTELLIGIBLE IN TROUBLE.THAT GOES FOR(BLACK) AFRICA,TOO.IT'S STRANGE.IT'S SOME PEOPLE,MAYBE FROM JAMAICA,THEY WAS IN THE FRONT,THEY SEEMED LIKE THEY WAS FROM JAMAICA OR SOME- WHERE.THEY WAS DANCING(REFERRING TO PEOPLE IN THE FRONT ROW AT THAT EVENING'S CONCERT).LOOKED LIKE THEY WAS FROM SOMEWHERE ' ELSE. PH:ARE YOU GOING TO START REHEARSING DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND? SR:WELL,I GOT TO LOOK IT OVER NOW AND SEE WHETHER THEY CHANGED SOME CHORDS.I ALREADY GOT IT WRITTEN OUT.I JUST WANTED THE WORDS. SO NOW SINCE I GOT THAT MUSIC THAT MEANS I'M GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING. PH:(CHUCKLES) SR:'CAUSE WHEN I LOOKED AT IT I SAID I THINK I'LL WRITE...WRITE IT OR CHANGE KEYS OR...IT'S IN THE SAME KEY AS ON THE RECORD. (THE SOUNDTRACK TO THE FILM COOL HAND LUKE.DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND WRITTEN BY LALO SCHIFRIN AND GAIL GARNETT).I MIGHT WANT ANOTHER KEY...KEY'S UNINTELLIGIBLE. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF MAN, OF OUR BEING HERE? OUR PURPOSE IS TO DIE, NOTHING ELSE. ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN ACCEPT LIFE. I'M DEALING WITH REALITY DOWN TO THE BOTTOM LINE. LOOK! THE BAD THINGS ALWAYS SPREAD, LIKE AIDS. DISEASE SPREADS, SO SUPPOSE WE HAD ONE TINY SEED OF HAPPINESS ON THIS PLANET. IF IT WAS POWERFUL ENOUGH IT WOULD SPREAD. THE GOOD THINGS HAVE NEVER HAD A CHANCE. HAPPINESS CAN BE CONTAGIOUS. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO, PUT HAPPINESS ON THIS PLANET THROUGH MUSIC. SUN RA DECEMBER 1986 MusIcIANs THINK I'M Too “FAR OUT” I=oR THE AuI>IEN<E. THAT'S THE WORD oN ME. BUT PEOPLE ASK, “HAvE THE MusI<IANs CAUGHT UP wITH suN RA YET?” I KEEP ADVANCING. EVERYBODYSHOULD. MAN ONLY usEs I=IvE PER<ENT or HIs BRAIN. THAT's WHY I SAY MAN KIND HAs TO <ooPERATE. IF vou GET TWENTY MEN TOGETHER YOU GET 100 PE R<ENT BRAIN PowER. wE <AN'T TRAvEI. ALONEANYMORE. SUN RA DECEMER 1986 THINGS I WANT THEM TO U0. I GOT TO HAVE PARTICULAR WHITE ONES 'CAUSE I CANNOT MAKE IT WITH THE BLACK ONES NO MORE ALL BLACK. I GOT TO HAVE ME .SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH THEM HAIRDos. IT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ERDM ouTER SPACE. AND I'LL TEA<H THEM How To SING AND I cAN HAVE TH EM To BE RIGHT THERE AND I ¢AN Do MY DAN<Es wITH THEM AND sINc. wITH THEM AND SHARE THE WORLD. I'M coma To SHARE THE woRI.D. BuT I wANT TH EM To HAVE . . . I wANT THEM To BE . . . LOOK LIKE THEY I=RoM soME- wHERE EI.sE. wITH THEM HAIRDos AND THEM I=AcIAI. AND THEM cosTuMEs. I wANT THAT. I DoN'T HAVETIME To TEA<H THE BLACK oNEs No MoRE. I'VE BEEN TEACHING MY wHoI.E I.II=ETIME AND THEY DIsAI>I>oINTIN¢ ME 'cAusE I'M A SPIRIT. YOU KNOW. I'M NoT No MAN. suN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-15
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 16 (April, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: APRIL 1998 APRIL 199 ISSUE SIXTEEN ‘S-‘-:‘ ‘_.-:-' ‘ ' ' . SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, 94030 G) 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND PETER HINDS...JUNE 2,1986 . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:IT WILL COME TO LIGHT THAT THERE ARE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO ARE NON CREATIVE AND WHO(ARE)AGGRESSIVE AND WHO,IN FACT(IT IS) A TWO PARTY THING LIKE AMERICA GOT;REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATS,LIKE THAT.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN THE BLACK RACE.THERE'S ONE PARTY,YOU MIGHT SAY,IT'S CREATIVE,INVENTIVE AND EVERYTHING.LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND SO FORTH OF THE BLACK RACE.AND THERE'S ANOTHER PARTY THAT'S CRUDE AND VIOLENT AND PHYSICAL.YOU GOT THOSE TWO KIND OF PEOPLE.WHAT THE WHITE RACE GOT TO SEE:THERE ARE TWO KINDS.NOW,THEY BEEN LISTENING TO THE ONES WHO ARE MORE PHYSICAL AND WHO(ARE)MATERIALISTIC.THEY'VE BEEN GIVING THEM MORE AND MORE POWER AND THE_ONES WHO...
Show moreAPRIL 1998 APRIL 199 ISSUE SIXTEEN ‘S-‘-:‘ ‘_.-:-' ‘ ' ' . SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, 94030 G) 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND PETER HINDS...JUNE 2,1986 . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:IT WILL COME TO LIGHT THAT THERE ARE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO ARE NON CREATIVE AND WHO(ARE)AGGRESSIVE AND WHO,IN FACT(IT IS) A TWO PARTY THING LIKE AMERICA GOT;REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATS,LIKE THAT.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN THE BLACK RACE.THERE'S ONE PARTY,YOU MIGHT SAY,IT'S CREATIVE,INVENTIVE AND EVERYTHING.LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND SO FORTH OF THE BLACK RACE.AND THERE'S ANOTHER PARTY THAT'S CRUDE AND VIOLENT AND PHYSICAL.YOU GOT THOSE TWO KIND OF PEOPLE.WHAT THE WHITE RACE GOT TO SEE:THERE ARE TWO KINDS.NOW,THEY BEEN LISTENING TO THE ONES WHO ARE MORE PHYSICAL AND WHO(ARE)MATERIALISTIC.THEY'VE BEEN GIVING THEM MORE AND MORE POWER AND THE_ONES WHO ARE CREATIVE AND THE ONES WHO REALLY HAVE SOME MORE WORK TO OFFER FROM A HEAVENLY POINT OF VIEW HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED.AND THAT'S THE REASON THE WORLD IS IN THAT STATE.YOU GOT THESE TWO PARTIES.ONE OF THEM IS VIOLENT,ONE OF THEM IS CRUDE,ONE OF THEM IS UGLY AND ONE OF THEM IS INVENTIVE,ONE OF THEM...YOU DON'T HAVE NO KINDNESS,NO SYMPATHY,NO FRIENDSHIP,NO LOVE,NO NOTHING IN THE BLACK RACE.AND THEN THE OTHER KIND:YOU GOT LOVE AND KINDNESS AND SYMPATHY AND CREATIVITY AND ADVENTURNESS. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY.WELL,BECAUSE OF THE ONES,THE OTHER ONES "WHO ARE AGGRESSIVE,THE WHITE RACE IN AMERICA(IS SYMPATHETIC)TO THAT KIND.THEY ALSO(OFFER OPPORTUNITIES):IF A(QLACK)PERSON HAS SOME WHITE BLOOD IN THEM,THEY BACK HIM UP LIKE THEY DOING(WITH) PRINCE.AND LIKE THEY DOING(REFERS TO SOMEBODY.UNINTELLIGIBLE). THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE WHITE FATHERS AND WHITE MOTHERS AND ALL THAT. THEY TEND TO BACK THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE BUT SEE,IT DOESN'T...THIS KIND OF VIBE(VIBRATION),IT HAS TO GOAD THEM BECAUSE WHAT THEY GOT TO DO(IS PROMOTE)WITH THE ONES WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER. 'CAUSE THEY NEED IT.THEY NEED IT.THEY NEED IT LIKE NEVER BEFORE. THEY MUST DEAL WITH THOSE WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER...NOT JUST AMERICA BUT THE WHOLE RACE.BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE NO SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS.THERE'S NONE.THEY DON'T HAVE IT.AND THAT'S WHAT THE AVERAGE WHITES HAVE TOLD THEM.IN GERMANY,A LONG TIME AGO,HE (ALBERT SCHWEITZER)TOLD THEM THAT THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN THE WHITE RACE IS GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE.THEY GOING TO NEED... THEY GOING TO NEED SOMEBODY ELSE.THEY GOING TO NEED SOMEBODY IN THE BLACK RACE TO SET THINGS STRAIGHT.BUT THE DIFFICULTY,HE SAID, WAS THAT SINCE THE WHITE PEOPLE WERE TEACHING THE BLACK PEOPLE, THEY WAS GOING TO THINK JUST LIKE WHITE PEOPLE.AND IF THEY THINK LIKE WHITE PEOPLE THEY NOT GOING TO HAVE A SOLUTION TO THEIR PROBLEMS.THEN THE WORLD IS LOST.AND THAT'S THE REASON HE LEFT GERMANY AND WENT TO AFRICA.TO TRY AND DEVELOP THE BLACK PEOPLE TO THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM WHITE PEOPLE.THAT'S WHY HE WENT.YOU EVER READ HIS BOOK? PETER HINDS:NO.I'VE NEVER READ HIS BOOK. SR:WELL,HE WAS A GERMAN PHILOSOPHER.AND HE PLAYED ORGAN AND HE WAS A MUSICIAN.AND HE WENT TO AFRICA AND HE STAYED THERE WITH THE HOSPITAL THERE AND HE TRIED.HE SAID HE WAS DOING IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE WHITE RACE THAT HAD TO HAVE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT THINK LIKE THE WHITE RACE BECAUSE THE WHITE RACE.THEY WOULD HAVE USED THEIR...THEIR ENERGIES AND THEIR MINDS AND EVERYTHING. , , _, ___,V i _‘ A ,___._,,___..__.._._- _,._‘.,,..__:. ., . . , ,._..._.»-.._>._. ,.,.,._...,. _,.._.*..,_.....,.._-,.._.... .. ...._ _.,_._..__.._. THEY COME TO A PLACE WHERE THEY COULD BE STOPPED.THEY WOULD HAVE REACHED THE ULTIMATE.AS FAR AS THEY COULD GO AND THEY WOULD BE CRAWLING ON TO THEIR HANDS OF THE BLACK RACE.HE DEFINATELY SAID THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.BUT HE SAID IF THE BLACK RACE HAD BEEN EDUCATED BY THE WHITE RACE THEY WERE ONLY GOING TO DO THE SAME THING THE WHITE RACE DID.THEY WOULD NOT BE CREATIVE OR HAVE ANY ANSWERS TO THE PROBLEMS OF THE WHITE RACE OR EUROPE.HE SAID THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.WELL,OF COURSE,IT'S HAPPENING NOW.BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ASK NO BLACK PERSON,WELL,WHAT MUST WE DO?'CAUSE HE GOING TO TELL THEM THE SAME THING THAT THE WHITE MAN HAS SAID. AND THEY DON'T HAVE NO SOLUTION. PI-I:NOW,WI-IAT ABOUT somsonz LIKE MALCOM x? SR:WELL...HE MADE A MISTAKE.SEE,WHATEVER IS WATCHING THIS PLANET YOU'RE NOT TO ALLOW MISTAKES.YOU GOT TO BE SURE YOU HAVE THE EQUATIONS.THEY HAVE TO BALANCE.THE WORDS.THE WORDS HAVE TO BE EQUATIONALLY BALANCED AND YOU BUILD UPON THE WORDS.NOW,IF YOU GOT A UNINTELLIGIBLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,NOT EQUATIONAL,IT'S NO GOOD.AND MALCOM X WAS DEALING WITH THE THOUGHTS OF THE WHITE RACE.BUT THESE FORCES I'M DEALING WITH UNINTELLIGIBLE.IF YOUR OWN RACE IS NOT QUITE PROPER YOU GOT TO DEAL WITH THEM FIRST.TALK ABOUT THEM.THEN AFTER YOU TALK ABOUT THEM AND EVERYTHING AND TELL THEIR FAULTS AND TELL THE TRUTH ON THEM THEN YOU GO OUT TO THE WORLD AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE OTHER NATIONS.BUT ITS NOT PROPER TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER NATION AND YOUR OWN IS NOT IN LINE.IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ACCEPTED.AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.'CAUSE A LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE IS DOING SOME VERY TERRIBLE THINGS.BUT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WHITE RACE.WHAT HE WAS SAYING ABOUT THEM WAS QUITE TRUE.BUT THEN,I'M NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.EVEN EVERYBODY WHO STAYS IN THE HOUSE WITH ME(IN PHILADELPHIA).EVERYDAY,IF THEY DOING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT PROPER,I TELL THEM.YOU SEE,I HAVE TO START A NEW HOUSE.UNINTELLIGIBLE.YOU NOT PROPER.YOU NOT...UNIN- TELLIGIBLE TO BE PART OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.AND YOU'D BEST STRAIGHTEN UP BECAUSE I'M GOING OUT TO THE WORLD AND I'M TELLING YOU,YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF TO A CHANGING WORLD.NOW,I WAS TEL- LING THEM RIGHT HERE,LIKE I TOLD MARSHALL'S(ALLEN)FATHER.YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF TO A CHANGING WORLD AND FORGET ABOUT HOW OLD YOU ARE.YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF,YOU UNDERSTAND.AND FORGET THE PAST. UNLESS YOU_THOUGHT_IT WAS RIGHT AND_WHAT YOU THINK OUGHT TO BE. YOU ACTING JUST LIKE THE WEATHER.THIS IS DOOMED(?).SO YOU GOING TO GO DOWN AND WEAR YOUR LITTLE PANTS JUST LIKE YOU USED TO DO BUT THE WEATHER'S GOING DOWN TO FOURTY DEGREES SO,THEREFORE,YOU MUST PUT ON YOUR LONG UNDERWEAR(LAUGHS).SO HE WAS LISTENING.(HE) SAID,I'M GOING TO PUT THEM ON WHEN I GO BACK HOME.I WAS TELLING EVERYBODY IN THIS BAND,YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF TO A CHANGING WORLD.I UNINTELLIGIBLE MOVING SO FAST AND STILL MOVE FASTER.I SEE BUSINESSES GOING OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T CONTROL WHAT THE COMPETITION OR OTHER BUSINESSES ARE DOING.BECAUSE THERE _ ARE SO MANY NEW INVENTIONS,SO MANY THINGS THAT..IT PUTS PEOPLE OUT OF BUSINESS. PH:I MISSED WHAT YOU SAID THERE.WHO'S GOING OUT OF BUSINESS? SR:BUSINESSES ARE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS ‘CAUSE THEY GOT SO MANY NEw PRODUCTS.AND THE COMPETITION AND THEN PEOPLE wANT MORE MONEY.AND THEN THEY CAN'T...IP YOU GOT A COMPETITION.YOU COMPE- TITIvE,YOU GOT MORE MONEY HE CAN PUT SOMETHING OUT THERE... THAT'S TIME SAVING AND ALL THAT AND PUT THEM ROBOTS OUT THERE AND THEY CAN PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINEsS.THAT'S wHAT'S HAPPENING. THEN THAT MEANS,LIKE,THE PARMER AND THE POOR PERSON CANNOT KEEP UP.THAT'S wHAT's HAPPENING.SO,YOU KNOW,IT’S VERY CRITICAL POSITION AND MORE AND MORE YOU GOT ALL THESE NEW INvENTIONs.IN- vENTIONS,INvENTIONS.BUT SOME MEN.YOU SEE.ARE NOT CAPABLE OF BEING wITH THAT KIND OP MIND.NOw.THEY CAN DO THE LABOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT AS FAR AS THEM#UNINTELLIGIBLE,THEY CANfT DO IT. SO ALTHOUGH THEY TALKING ABOUT ALL MEN ARE EQUAL,IT DOESN'T FIT. SOME MEN CAN...IS VERY GOOD AT MATHEMATICS.SOME MEN JUST CAN'T DO IT.NOW,SO THEREFORE THE DOCTRINE OF EQUALITY IS VERY DESTRUC- TIVE BECAUSE YOU'LL TAKE SOMEBODY AND PUT THEM QVER,IN EINSTEIN UNINTELLIGIBLE A MAN,THINKING HE-WAS CAPABLE OF ACTUALLY MASTER- ING IT,'CAUSE HE CAN'T DO IT.AND YOU DON'T HAVE...YOU DON'T HAVE ‘A UNINTELLIGIBLE BORN EVERYDAY,EITHER.YOU DON'T HAVE A LOUIS ARM- Y STRONG BORN EVERYDAY,BILLIE'HOLIDAY.SO THEN IT MIGHT SOUND ALL VERY NICE TO TALK ABOUT THIS EQUALITY STUFF BUT WHAT NOW...THE WORLD NEEDS SOME PEOPLE THAT CAN FIT IN CERTAIN SLOTS TO GET THIS PLANET IN ORDER.THEY NEED THAT.AND THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO CAN DO IT.BUT AS I TELL YOU,THEY'RE NOT AGGRESSIVE.THEY STAY IN THE BACKGROUND.THEY DON'T WANT TO BE TRAMPLED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ONES. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . . . . . ..... THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 31.l988...BEST WESTERN MOTEL... . . . . . . .. SAN o u o o o oooooo O o o o IIOOOOOC o o o o o o o o o o o colonic 0 PETER HINDS:(WALKING TOWARDS SUN RA'S ROOM AFTER TALKING WITH CARL LEBLANC WHO WAS OFF TO VISIT BUCKNER MUSIC IN SEARCH OF SHEET MUSIC FOR DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND WRITTEN BY LALO SCHRIFRIN AND GAIL GARNETT.FROM THE FILM COOL HAND LUKE.)HE(SUN RA)REALLY WANTS DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND. JOHN HINDS:I SUSPECT THAT'S WHAT HE'S LOOKING FOR. PETER HINDS:(ENTERING ROOM FOURTY SEVEN.THE DOOR IS OPEN.)SUN RA. HOW ARE YOU? SUN RA:...AND THEN HE CAME AND HE WANTED TO RECITE THIS POETRY TO ME.HE WAS A GOOD POET. PETER HINDS:THE MAN LAST NIGHT?(IN SANTA CRUZ) SUN RA:YES.COULDN'T GET RID OF HIM.(THE CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND THE POET WILL APPEAR IN A FUTURE ISSUE OF SRR.)BUT HE FELT SOMETHING.HE PROBABLY WAS PSYCHIC,YOU KNOW.AND HE WAS I ANALYZING...ANALYZING ME IN.SOME KIND OF SENSE.HE RAN UP AGAINST SOMETHING HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.HE'S VERY INTELLIGENT AND HE WAS TRYING TO SEE...WHAT...WHAT AM I IN A SENSE'CAUSE UNINTELLIGIBLE HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND.HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND.AND I WENT,WHAT HE SAYING THAT FOR?HE DID.HE JUMPED UP AND SAID FIVE THOUSAND.THEN, THEN HE CAME AND HE ASKED ME HOW OLD I WAS.AND I SAID FIVE THOU- SAND YEARS OLD.BUT THE POINT OF IT:HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND BEFORE HE CAME IN THERE.AND WHAT WAS THAT?HE DIDN'T SAY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.HE STOOD UP,NO,HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND.HE DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ME.HE JUST SAID HIS GIRLFRIEND SAID THAT WAS IT.THAT I WAS THE GREATEST ONE ON THE PLANET IN MUSIC.HE SAID HE CAME OUT(AND) HE NEVER HEARD(SUN RA).THAT HE SAID THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS SAYING ALL THE TIME.HE SAID SHE COULDN'T COME TONIGHT.I WANT TO SHAKE HER UP.I WANT YOUR AUTOGRAPH.UNINTELLIGIBLE.HAVE A FIT WHEN SHE SEE THAT.BUT...HE SAID,'THAT'S IT.SHE TOLD THE TRUTH.YOU ARE THE GREATEST.BAR NONE.UNINTELLIGIBLE THAN ANYBODY AND THAT'S IT. UNINTELLIGIBLE WHAT THE WORLD WILL SAY UNINTELLIGIBLE.I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT.I KNOW MYSELF.YOU'RE THE GREATEST.'.... YOU DIDN'T GET THE SONG,DID YOU? JH:NO.HAVEN'T FOUND THAT.I WILL EVENTUALLY.BUT PROBABLY NOT BEFORE YOU DO. SR:WELL,I HAVE WAYS AND MEANS.IF I HAVE TO USE MY INTUITION TO FIND IT.YOU ALL COULDN'T...YOU ALL COULDN'T USE YOUR BRAIN AND FIND IT,I'LL USE MY INTUITION.I'LL PROBABLY HAVE IT IN A FEW MINUTES.MAYBE. JH:REALLY. SR:YEAH.'CAUSE I HAVE TO...IT JUST.THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES WITH ME.IT GOES WITH ME LIKE THAT.A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GROWING(AND)THEY REACH A STAGE WHERE THEY VERY LONELY...A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET REACH THAT STATE.OUT SIDE THEIR NATION.FAMILY.THEY DONE" i REACHED IT.THAT'S IT.SO THEY READY.UNINTELLIGIBLE UNIVERSAL 5 FORCES GETTING READY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.BUT'THEY HAD TO GO‘ 1 UP TO THAT POINT...TO MAKE CHOICES.THEY HAVE TO BE APPROACHED AND I r TELL THE TRUTH.TRUTH THEY NEVER HEARD BEFORE...IN CERTAIN WAYS. LIKE YOU LEARN A CHILD.ONE...AND FIRST YOU TELL THEM ONE.THEN YOU I SAY TWO,THEN THREE AND FINALLY YOU GET AWAY(COUNTS QUICKLY ONE y THROUGH NINE)...AND TEN AND THEN YOU GO ON FROM THATuBUT HE GOT 3 TO LEARN ONE.TWO...NINE FIRST.THAT'S THE WAY PEOPLE ARE.IT'S UN- f FORTUNATE.THE CREATOR NEVER.NEVER REACHED PEOPLE.HE NEVER TRIED. L HE SET UP ALL THIS OTHER STUFF.LIKE SETTING UP THINGS FOR LITTLE J CHILDREN.FAIRY TALES,YOU.KNOW.HE DID THAT TO MOSES.TOO.HE JUST... N LET THEM EGYPTIAN PRIESTS TEACH HIM.THE SUN PRIEST TAUGHT HIM... ‘ MYTHS.AND THEN HE DEVELOPED WITH A LOT OF POWER BELIEVING IN THE { MYTHS AND THINGS AND HE USED IT.BUT HE USED TO ABUSE PEOPLE,KILL f PEOPLE.HE HAD ALL THAT POWER...AND HE ENDED UP KILLING PEOPLE. f HE KILLED A LOT OF PEOPLE AND HE...THEN EVENTUALLY HE MADE A , MISTAKE AND HE HAD TO DIE,TOO AND DIDN'T REACH THE PROMISE LAND. I JUST LIKE REVEREND KING.UNINTELLIGIBLE HE WENT ON THE MOUNTAIN. ' SEEN THE GLORY OF THE LORD.THEY SAY.YOU KNOW.HE DIDN'T GET IN UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT'S LIKE THAT.THERE WAS A GOD BUT HE JUMPED OVER i INTO...HE JUMPED OVER INTO MYTHOLOGY.HE JUMPED OVER INTO THAT. g AND LEFT THE REALITY.AND PEOPLE LEFT HOLDING THE REALITY.HE LEFT { THE REALITY.'CAUSE THE PEOPLE...THEY DIDN'T,THE PEOPLE DIDN'T f DEVELOP THEMSELVES TO THE POINT WHERE THEY COULD ACCEPT WHAT HE i WAS.HE JUST LET THEM LET THEIR IDEA OF WHAT HE IS.HE LET THEM HAVE IT.BUT IT DIDN'T SUIT WHAT HE REALLY IS SO HE JUST LET THEM HAVE IT AND LET THEM GO ON WITH THEIR FALSE IDEA. } T SUN RA:YOU GOT TO REACH PEOPLE WITH ALL KIND A OF SOUNDS NOW. i‘ SOUNDS.THAT'S WHAT THEY NEED.THEY GOT TO HAVE SOUND BODIES,NOW. 9 SOUND MINDS.HE BEEN PLAYING THE SOUND(REFERS TO JH WHO HAS BEEN I PLAYING A CYMBAL NEXT TO SUN RA).A LOT OF MUSICIANS ON THE PLANET ] BUT THEY DON'T HAVE NO SOUND.THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG.THEY DON'T HAVE j THE SOUND.AND I HEAR A LOT OF SINGERS...AIN'T GOT NO SOUND.THEY § BE SINGING EVERYTHING ON THE BEAT...AND THAT AIN'T JAZZ(LAUGHS). J BUT THEY GOOD SINGERS LIKE JOHNNY MATHIS.HE SINGS EVERYTHING JUST ) . LIKE IT'S WRITTEN.HE BE PUTTING HIS FEELING,WHATEVER HE GOT BUT 3 HE AIN'T GOT NO JAZZ FEELING.HE'S NOT A CREATOR.HE JUST SINGS.AND .._. _._.__.u..m» m § HE BE SINGING.BUT HE AIN'T SAYING NOTHING.LIKE,THE WORLD HAS JUST g GOT HIGHWAYS.IT GOT SOME PATHWAYS UP THERE ON THE MOUNTAIN.HIGH- 9 WAYS CAN'T GO UP THERE.THEY ALWAYS GO ON THE HIGHWAYS.THE BEATEN 3 TRACK WHERE EVERYBODY'S GOING TO GO.WELL,I DON'T DO THAT.I'M AL- ? WAYS TRAVELLING UNKNOWN PATHWAYS.ALL THE TIME.I'LL NEVER KNOW NOTHING.I DON'T NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING.IT'S TOO BIG FOR ME TO KNOW 3 ANYTHING.IT'S SO BIG OUT THERE.EVEN THIS PLANET IS BIG.AND YOU r GET OUT THERE TO OUTER SPACE IT'S SO BIG ‘TILL YOUR MIND...DON'T ‘ WANT TO CONCEIVE OF NOTHING THAT BIG'CAUSE EVERYTIME YOU'RE NOT i BIG.THAT MAKES YOU A LITTLE SMALLER.AND FINALLY YOU FIND YOURSELF Q9-.a....-4. ..--‘man \....-.i...L...v_:...;.‘.>u-...:....u..-’ -' . . .. _.X_._.u..m. m SO SMALL THAT YOU DON'T EXIST.SO THAT'S...THAT'S IT.AND THAT'S THE REASON A LOT OF PEOPLE,THE MORE THEY LEARN...IT JUST...IT DESTROYS THEIR PRIDE AND EVERYTHING TO SEE HOW LITTLE THEY ARE... BUT...IT DON'T WORRY ME.THAT'S 'CAUSE I'M IGNORANT,YOU SEE.BUT, SEE.IF I WAS INTELLIGENT AND SMART THEN I'D GO CRAZY.I WOULD REALIZE HOW SMALL I AM.BUT SINCE I'M IGNORANT IT DON'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.I DIDN'T MAKE ALL THIS AND...OR MAYBE I DID.I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER I DID OR NOT.I DON'T KNOW NOTHING.MAYBE I DID. MAYBE I CAN CHANGE IT.SO I DON'T KNOW NOTHING.I CAN'T SAY THAT I DIDN'T MAKE THIS.I CAN'T SAY I DID BECAUSE IF I COULD SAY IT THEN I'D BE WISE BUT I'M OTHERWISE.SO I DIDN'T EVEN SAY NOTHING. I'M NOT GOING TO SAY NOTHING BUT JUST TELL PEOPLE WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO IF THEY WANT TO SURVIVE.THEY CAN COME HERE AND THEY LIVE AND THEY DIE AND THEY COME BACK AND THEY LIVE AND THEY DIE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.YOU GOT THE KIND OF CREATOR THAT HE DON'T CARE.YOU LIVE ALL THE TIME FOR EVERY- BODY.DIE,COME BACK LIKE THE TREES OUT THERE.WHEN WINTER COMES AND THEN THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE AND EVERYTHING.SPRING COMES THEN THEY GET UNINTELLIGIBLE.PEOPLE CAN BE LIKE THAT,TOO.THEY COME BACK THROUGH THEIR CHILDREN,MAYBE.BUT...IT AIN'T TOO GOOD TO COME BACK HERE.ONLY CHILDREN COME BACK HERE.THEY TEACHING THAT UNLESS A MAN BE BORN AGAIN...BUT,YOU KNOW,YOU DO HAVE SOMETHING SUPPOSED TO BE SAVING YOU...AND YOU HAVE TO WATCH IT.AND YOU REALLY SAVING.BUT HE PLAYING THE PART.AND UNINTELLIGIBLE PEOPLE BE BUSY PLAYING PARTS AND THE CREATOR PLAY PARTS,TOO. PEOPLE GOT THESE PLAYS.JUMP UP AND PLAY THE PART OF A BUTLER OR A PRESIDENT AND THE CREATOR JUMPS ON IT.HE JUMPS IN THE PLAY AND HE PLAY PARTS. TOO.AS LONG AS THEY PLAYING PARTS AND PRETEND,HE GOING TO DO THE_ SAME THING.AND THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG.THAT IS WHAT'S WRONG.'CAUSE ONE OF THE SCRIPTURES SAY GOD HAS GOT(A)SHADOW.BUT THEY AIN'T SEEN THAT.'CAUSE THEY DON'T RESEARCH.A SHADOW DOES WHATEVER YOU DO.AND HE GOING TO DO THAT.YEAH.IT'S ALL BACKWARDS(THAT)MAN IS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD....HE'S OVER IN THAT SHADOW.ALL AROUND HE GOT NAMES OF PLACES,LIKE,I SAW A SHADOW MOTEL.I SAID I AIN'T GOING OVER IN THERE AND STAYING.(LAUGHTER)GOT TO WATCH THE BAD VIBRATION AT THE HOTEL THEY SAYING,HOW COULD WE EVEN STAY THERE? THE VIBRATIONS ARE BAD IN THERE.IT MAKES THINGS BAD.AND WE STAYED THERE AND THE DRUMER WENT TO JAIL.(REFERRING TO DON MUMFORD WHO WAS ARRESTED IN SANTA CRUZ,QALIFORNIA,MAY OF l987)I HAD TO PAY $500 TO GET HIM OUT.I SHOULD HAVE LET HIM STAY IN DOWN THERE. PETER HINDS:SUN RA.WE WENT BY A...THERE WAS A HAMBURGER PLACE NEXT TO THE CLUB(IN SANTACRUZ)LAST NIGHT CALLED MURDER BURGERS. SR:YEAH.I SAW THAT. PH:YEAH.YOU'LL KILL FOR ONE OF THESE BURGERS.(LAUGHS) SR:I TOLD THE PEOPLE ABOUT THAT.WASN'T NOBODY THERE BUYING ONE. DIDN'T YOU SEE THAT,LUQMAN?(LUQMAN ALI WHO HAD RETURNED A FEW MINUTES EARLIER AFTER PURCHASING A NEW SET OF HI—HAT CYMBALS) LUQMAN ALI:WHAT'S THAT? I r SR:THE MURDER BURGER PLACE.THEY DON'T CALL THEM HAMBURGERS.THEY CALL THEM MURDER BURGERS AND SAY YOU'LL DIE FOR ONE(LAUGHTER). MICHAEL(RAY)WENT AROUND THERE BUT HE DIDN'T BUY ONE.MURDER BURGER.(LAUGHTER)...IT MIGHT BE WHAT IT IS.YOU CAN'T...IT'S REALLY A MAGIC WORLD.AND I KNOW IT.LIKE THIS FELLOW SHOWED UP IN PORTLAND.HE SAID THAT PEOPLE IN EGYPT CRAZY ABOUT ME.THEY WAITING FOR ME TO COME BACK...THAT THEY LOVE ME SO MUCH OVER THERE IN EGYPT..COME BACK.THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.I AIN'T NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE.BUT HE WAS IN THE CLUB BUT HE NEVER CAME UP AND SPOKE TO ME.HE HAD TO BE THERE.HE SAY.'WELL.ININTELLIGIBLE IN EXCRUCIATING PAIN BECAUSE I DON'T SMOKE AND THAT SMOKE GETS WITH ME BUT I STILL CAME TO HEAR YOU.I.WOULD'VE COME EVERY NIGHT BUT I COULDN'T STAND THE SMOKE.'THEN HE HAD SOME PICTURES TO SHOW ME TO PROVE HE WAS THERE.SO I HAVE TO GO BACK TO EGYPT..._ SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING.GOT THEIR ISLAM OVER THERE.THAT'S GOING. CHRISTIANITY AS WE KNOW IT,IT'S GOING.ALL OF THE RELIGIONS: THEY GOING.EVERYONE OF THEM.A LOT OF GOVERNMENTS:THEY GOING TOO. PARTICULARLY DEMOCRACIES.THEY GOING.FASCISM;IT'S GOING.COMMUN- ISM;IT'S GOING.EVERYTHING THEY GOT UP THERE,IT JUST TRULY GOING TO BE A KINGDOM...THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE A KING OF NO GOD.THEY THEY'VE DISGRACED THAT NAME SO BAD(THAT)THE CREATOR DON'T WANT THAT NAME AT ALL.THEY DID TOO MANY BAD THINGS AROUND HIM SO HE JUST WON'T USE THAT NAME.HE'D RATHER BE NO GOD.HE TOOK THAT NAME.‘ I SAID.'WELL.WHEN THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THERE'S NO GOD.THEN NO GOD TAKES CONTROL.'I MADE IT OFFICIAL...'CAUSE I HAD THE VOICE OF AMERICA(WILLIS CONOVER)AT CARNAGIE HALL SAY THAT ON THE STAGE. HE THOUGHT HE WASN'T GOING TO SAY IT.HE GOT UP AND HE SAY IT. WHEN THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD THEN GOD TAKES THE NAME OF NO GOD AND WILL BE NO GOD.SINCE THEY BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD. WHEN THEY SAY THERE IS NO GOD,THEY'RE MAKING NO GOD A REALITY BECAUSE THEY SAID THERE IS...AND,YOU KNOW,THEY CAN'T GET AWAY. THEY SAID THERE IS.ANYTIME YOU SAY THERE IS THAT MEANS THAT EXISTS. JH:LIKE AN EQUATION,RIGHT? SR:IT'S AN EQUATION.SO THE CREATOR SITS BACK AND LAUGHS.(THE CREATOR)SAID,'THEY SAY THERE IS NO GOD.I'LL JUST BE NO GOD,THEN. AND THE WHITE RACE WORSHIPPING NO GOD BUT THEY WORSHIPPING NOEL AT CHRISTMAS.THAT MEANS NO GOD.'CAUSE EL IS GOD.IT MEANS GOD. THEY WORSHIP NO GOD.AND BACKWARDS NO GOD,GRD IS DRAGON.IT'S DRA- GON BACKWARDS.THEY TURN IT BACK...NO GOD.D-R-A-G-O-N.EVERYTIME YOU USE A WORD WITH R IN IT IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE SUN.DRAGON IS REALLY THE SUN GOD ALL THE TIME.ANYTIME YOU SEE A WORD WITH R IN IT...NAME OF THE SUN.LIKE BABYLON.THAT'S SUN.THAT'S THE NAME OF THE SUN.ON'CAUSE IT NEVER GOES OFF.IT'S ALWAYS ON.IT'S ALWAYS MOVING FORWARD SO IN ANCIENT EGYPT THEY NAMED THEY NAMED THE SUN ON.LIKE THAT LIGHT.IT'S ON.AND SOME PEOPLE UNINTELLIGIBLE THEY GOT SOME OFFICERS AND THEY BE DOWN AND FULL OF OFFICERS AND THE POLICE OFFICERS.THEY BE OFFING FOLKS'CAUSE THEY NOT...THEY NOT DEALING WITH THEIR ON,THEY DEALING WITH THE OFFS.THEY TURN THINGS OFF.THEY JAIL PEOPLE.THE WHOLE THING IS BASED UPON PRINCIPLES AND WORDS.AND THE CREATOR GIVE THEM ALL THEM WORDS.THEY DIDN'T INVENT THESE WORDS.HE PUT EVERYTHING...LIKE HE PUT THE FLOWERS .. .... ._..,_.L__,_._.. _.I...,_.., .7.-. ......._.,.__..__ .-.. HERE AND HE PUT THE SNAKES HERE...HE PUT EVERYTHING.SEE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO WITH THEM.ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE USE OF IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KILL YOURSELF WITH IT?IT JUST LIKE YOU GOT A CHILD(AND)YOU GOT A FIREPLACE THERE.GOTS SOME FIRE IN IT..,.YOU MIGHT TELL IT,DON'T PUT YOUR HAND IN THE FIRE.HE PUT HIS HAND IN THE FIRE HE GOING TO GET A MESSAGE.EVEN THOUGH HE IS INNOCENT. HE DON'T KNOW NO BETTER.HE GOING TO GET BURNED.SOMETIME A BABY FALL OUT OF A THIRTEEN STORY APARTMENT BUILDING(AND)DON'T GET HURT.UNINTELLIGIBE SAID HE GOT PROTECTED.SOME PEOPLE GET PRO- TECTED,SOME PEOPLE DON'T.IT'S LIKE THAT.BUT REACHING THE CREATOR IS QUITE DIFFICULT BECAUSE I READ IT(ON THE)BACK OF AN LP WHERE MCCOY TYNER SAID...WELL,'IT'S NOT EASY TO REACH THE CREATOR.A LOT OF PEOPLE TRY.SOME PEOPLE GOT A HOT LINE T0 HIM.THEY CAN REACH. I'M NOT ONE OF THEM.I TRIED.NOT EVERYBODY CAN REACH THE CREATOR.' HE SAID THAT.NOW,I ASKED HIM ABOUT OVER IN... AND IT LOOKED LIKE HE DIDN'T EVEN REMEMBER IT.WELL,HE PROBABLY SAID IT BUT HE DIDN'T REMEMBER IT.A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THINGS THEY DON'T REMEMBER.THEN THEY SAID THINGS THAT COME IN THEIR MOUTHS,JUST BAM.THEY DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT.SO THAT'S THE REASON THE CREATOR CAN GO IN THERE AND SAY SOMETHING RIGHT THROUGH THEM.THEY DON'T EVEN HERE.THAT'S THE REASON THEY SAY THEY HAVE EARS AND CAN'T HERE,EYES AND CAN'T »SEE.SO THEY PUT SOMETHING UP BEFORE THEM,BAM!THEY'RE ON THE HIGH- WAY(AND)THEY PASS IT BY,BAMlTHEY DON'T SEE IT.LIKE,WE PASS SOME- THING(AND)I SAID,'DID YOU ALL SEE THAT?'AND NOBODY IN THE BAND SEE IT.I TOLD THEM,I WAS LOOKING IN THE PAPER(AND)I SAID,'LOOK, THEY GOT A SATURN CAFE DOWN THERE.'IN THE PAPER IT SAID IT'S WEIRD...IT'S SOMETHING WEIRD AT THE PLANET,I MEAN AT THE SATURN CAFE.I SAID,'YOU SEE THAT?'THEY DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE PAPER. AND THEN WE GOING ALONG AND WE PASS BY SATURN(AND)I SAID,'DID YOU SEE THAT?'AND NOBODY IN THE BAND SEE IT.(ASKS LUQMAN ALI) DID YOU SEE THAT?(L.ALI INDICATES NO)YOU SEE,THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. JH:IN SANTA CRUZ. SR:YES. JH:YEAH.THE SATURN CAFE. SR:THEY GOT THE SATURN CAFE.AND IT'S IN THE PAPER.WE PASSED RIGHT BY IT AND NOBODY SAW IT THAT WAS WIDE AWAKE LOOKING.SO,I SEE THAT ALL THE TIME.BUT I'M ALWAYS...I'M ALWAYS LOOKING...READING.I SEE STRANGE THINGS IN THE HIGHWAY.AND THIS PLANET JUST SITTING UP HERE READY...READY TO WAKE UP.IT'S MOST AMAZING.THEY'VE BEEN ASLEEP THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.'CAUSE THEY SAID SOME- THING ABOUT THE CREATOR THAT HE DIDN'T EXACTLY LIKE IT.THEY SAY HE WENT TO SLEEP.SIX DAYS HE MADE THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND THEN HE WENT TO SLEEP.AND HE DIDN'T LIKE THAT.AND IT WASN'T TRUE.THEN THEY SAID THAT THE DEVIL'S ALWAYS BUSY.AND THEY MADE(IT)WHERE GOD WENT TO SLEEP BUT THE DEVIL DIDN'T AND THE DEVIL...THAT MEANS THE DEVIL'S IN CHARGE.THE CREATOR DIDN'T LIKE THAT EITHER. 'CAUSE HE WASN'T TELLING THE TRUTH.THE CREATOR'S ALWAYS CREATING. AND SO HE JUST LEFT HERE WHERE(THERE IS)NOTHING HAPPENING NEW UNDER THE SUN. BUT HE MADE IT WHAT THEY SAID.HE'LL DO NOTHING UNINTELLIGIBLE. PARTICULARLY BLACK FOLK...UNTILL THEY GIVE HIM THE PROPER GLORY. THEY AIN'T GOING TO NEVER MAKE IT.UNINTELLIGIBLE IT'S A PROBLEM. A PSYCHIC PROBLEM.LIKE THEM LITTLE CHILDREN OVER THERE STARVING TO DEATH.TAKING THEIR LAST BREATH.GOD AIN'T DOING...AIN'T LIFT- ING A FINGER TO SAVE(THEM).THEY'RE SO THIN THEY JUST...LAST } BREATH.THEY SUFFERING.HE AIN'T LIFTING A FINGER TO SAVE THEM. 3 'CAUSE THEY JUST SINNERS AND SOME FOLKS WHO DISPLEASE HIM.SO ' HE SAID,'LET THEM DIE.'THAT'S WHAT HAPPENEND.LET THEM DIE.IT'S ; STRANGE BUT TRUE.HE EXISTS ALL RIGHT.BUT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK E HE DOESN'T.BUT HE DOES.IT'S JUST A MATTER OF PEOPLE DON'T BE- ' LIEVE IN HIM...HE AIN'T GOING TO DO NOTHING FOR THEM.WHY SHOULD HE?SAME THING WITH THIS BAND.IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M UN- INTELLIGIBLE(DOING)I CAN GET RID OF THEM.I SAY I CAN'T MOVE V : FORWARD(WITH)THEM SO,THEREFORE,THEY HAVE TO GO.AND THAT IS { TRUE.THEY HAVE TO.BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE NO PROGRESS...YOU CAN'T ' LET THE TAIL WAG THE DOG,YOU KNOW.THEY GOT ALL THIS STUFF ABOUT 5 EVERYBODY'S EQUAL,CAN'T NO LEADER BE OVER IN NOTHING LIKE THAT. 1 THE WOLF LEADER AIN'T EQUAL TO THE WOLVES.AND THE BIRDS UP THERE } FLYING,THEY'RE NOT EQUAL TO THEIR LEADER UP THERE.ALL THE ANIMAL KINGDOM GOT LEADERS.AND THEY FOLLOW THEM,TOO.'CAUSE,I MEAN... IT WOULD BE BETTER NOT FOLLOW THEM IN A SENSE.I THINK IN WOLF KING IF A LEADER FOLLOWED OR SOMETHING OR DON'T LEAD THEY EAT HIM UP OR KILL HIM.WELL,THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES.NATURE TEACHES A LESSON.A BITTER LESSON.THEM SNAKES EATING UP LITTLE BIRDS AND ALL THE FEATHERS AND ALL.IT'S CRUDE OUT THERE.IN NATURE.AND MAN GOT ALL OF THESE...LOOK AT THESE MODERN THINGS.HE GOT ALL THIS. THE MOUNTAINS AIN'T GOT IT.HE GOT IT.WHY DOES HE HAVE IT?HE'S PART ANIMAL.WHY HE GOT ALL THIS?HE DIDN'T DESERVE IT.SOMETHING IS PUTTING IT THERE...HOPING THAT HE'LL...DEVELOP HIMSELF WITH IT.JUST HOPING...THAT HE'LL TAKE IT AND KEEP ON MOVING AND RISE UP ABOVE IT...THIS STAGE.HE HAS TO.HE CAN'T BE PART OF THE CREATOR TALKING ABOUT BEING RIGHTEOUS.CREATOR DON'T CARE ABOUT 1 NOTHING RIGHTEOUS.IN FACT,IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS WHY BE RIGHTEOUS I OVER MUCH?WHY SHOULD YOU DESTROY YOURSELF?RIGHT IN THE BOOK.AND ' OVER IN WHERE THEY TEACHING IT THE LUTHEREN WANTED TO BE LIKE GOD AND KICKED THEM OUT OF HEAVEN.SO THEN IT AIN'T WISE TO TRY AND BE LIKE GOD.THAT'S AN INSTRUCTIVE LESSON.THAT DON'T TRY TO BE LIKE GOD.SO THEN GOD MUST BE A NAME...TABOO.SACRED.SACRED } MEANS TABOO.IT MEANS DON'T TOUCH.YOU GOT ALL THESE CHURCHES OVER 5 THERE WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.THEY BE IN TROUBLE.SO THEY JUST LET ‘ IT GO ON AND ON AND ON AND ON... ALL THESE THOUSAND OF YEARS. * AIN'T TELLING NOBODY NOTHING.EVEN SAID THAT THE ANGELS DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.RIGHT IN THE BIBLE.HE SAID THE ANGELS,HE ACCUSES ANGELS OF FOLLY.IF HE GOING TO ACCUSE ANGELS OF BEING FOOLISH,WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT PEOPLE?BUT DON'T NOBODY READ THAT. BUT YOU HAD THE ZIEGFIELD FOLLIES.THAT'S THE WHITE RACE AND THEY GET THE FOLLY.THEY ACTUALLY HAD THE ZIEGFIELD FOLLIES.HE SAY HE ACCUSE THEM OF FOLLY.FOLLY IS JUST LITTLE FOOLISHNESS,YOU KNOW. IT AIN'T HARMFULL,IT'S JUST A LITTLE FRIVOLOUS,FOOLISHNESS.THAT‘S THE WAY ZIEGFIELD FIXED IT UP.HE HAD THE GIRLS ACTING REAL SILLY AND FOOLISH AND FOLLY IN THEIR NAME.FOLLY.LITTLE HUMOR.HUMOR THINGS.THAT WOULD MAKE YOU LAUGH.THEY DRESSED LIKE THAT.IT WAS REALLY GOOD THOUGH.HE HAD SOME GOOD...HE REALLY HAD GOOD THINGS. SO GOOD THEY NAMED A THEATER AFTER HIM.A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME THROUGH THE ZIEGFIELD FOLLIES.BUT THEY HAD TO...THEM GIRLS HAD TO BE DISCIPLINED.THEY DIDN'T MAKE MUCH MONEY BUT THEY LOVED THEIR ART.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH EVERY ARTIST.THEY LOVE THEIR ART.AND THEY..THEY EXPRESS IT.AND THEY DOING A GOOD JOB FOR THE WORLD.OF COURSE THEE ARE.THE ONLY THING THE WORLD GOT.THE WORLD DON'T PAY THEM MUCH.THOUGH.THE REST OF THE WORLD DON'T UNDER- STAND.BUT...SOME COUNTRIES DO.THEY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF ART.BEAUTY.THAT'S ALL THE CREATOR RESPECTS.UNINTELLIGIBLE < CREATIVE THINGS.A NATURAL CREATOR WOULDN'T BE INTERESTED IN NO IMITATION.A CREATOR IS INTERESTED IN SOME...HE INTERESTED IN CREATIVE,CREATORS.SOME HE AIN'T SEEN BEFORE.SOME HE AIN'T HEARD BEFORE.THAT'S IT.THEN YOU BE A CREATOR.TOO.SO YOU CAN REACH THE CREATOR THROUGH YOU BEING A CREATOR.AND IT HAPPEN.TAKE YOUR IDEAS AND PUT IT OUT THERE TO THE WORLD.THEY CAN BE GOOD IDEAS OR BAD IDEAS BUT IF IT'S CREATIVE EVENTUALLY HE'LL TAKE_IT AND TURN IT AROUND FOR THE PEOPLES BENEFIT IF THEY WANT IT.HE CAN TAKE...HE CAN TAKE A GREAT EVIL AND MAKE IT BENEFICIAL TO HUMANITY.IT DON'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.HE CAN TAKE THE WORST MAN IN THE WORLD AND MAKE HIM THE GREATEST MAN AS FAR AS HELPING PEOPLE.THAT'S RIGHT. SO THEN THEY DEALING WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF CREATOR.HE'S DIFF- ERENT FROM WHAT THEY SAY.THEY GOT THEIR IMAGE OF HIM,I'M TELLING YOU,HE GOT A SENSE OF HUMOR...HE BE PUTTING FOLKS IN SOME TERRIBLE,TERRIBLE CONDITIONS.BUT HE CAN'T GET OUT.THEN YOU SIT AND WATCH AND SEE...HE FIX ONE WAY FOR THEM TO GET OUT.AND HE SIT AND WAIT FOR THEM TO GET OUT.UNINTELLIGIBLE ALL MEN.AND THEY AIN'T GOT ONE WAY OUT.LIKE A LABYRINTH.I GOT A POEM ABOUT THAT. IT AIN'T REALLY A POEM.(IT'S AN)EQUATION SAYING THEY HAVE A LAB- YRINTH IN THEIR HEADS.UNINTELLIGIBLE GOT A LABYRINTH.AND I GOT THINGS OUT THERE THAT MAYBE THE WORLD SHOULD SEE BUT I'M NOT A MINISTER.I'M NOT SEEKING TO BE NO LEADER.I VERY(MUCH)TRIED TO AVOID IT.BUT I'M IN CONTACT WITH THE CREATOR LIKE NOBODY WHO EVER WALKED THIS PLANET.AND I'M IN CONTACT WITH HIM.I CAN DO THINGS TO THIS PLANET THAT NOBODY COULD DO.NOT EVEN JESUS.NOT EVEN GOD.CAN'T DO IT.THIS CREATOR IS ABOVE THE NAME GOD.YOU CALL HIM GOD HE GET MAD.SO THAT...THAT WORD IS VERY LOW.IT'S THE LOWEST THING THAT YOU...TWO WORDS ARE VERY BAD IN THE COSMOS: MAN AND GOD.THE TWO LOWEST THINGS.BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC. MAN IS NUMBER ONE AND GOD IS NUMBER EIGHT.NOW.IN MUSIC THAT'S... MAN IS GOD UP THERE IN THE OCTAVE.HE GOD...SO LET YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS,SEE.WON'T DEAL WITH THAT.SHOULDN'T TRY TO BE LIKE GOD. YOU'RE IN TROUBLE.AND ADAM AND EVE WENT TO THAT TREE AND THEY WANTED TO BE LIKE GOD...IN TROUBLE.PEOPLE...THEY DON'T SEE THAT. THEY DOING ALLRIGHT UNTILL THEY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.AS SOON AS THEY WENT OVER THERE AND SAY THEY BE LIKE GODS.THE SERPANT TOLD THEM TO BE LIKE GODS UNINTELLIGIBLE AND THEY JUMPED OVER THERE AND THEY ATE OF THAT TREE AND THEY BECAME AS GODS KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL,GOT KICKED OUT OF THE GARDEN.AFTER THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE.NOW,A LITTLE CHILD COULD UNDERSTAND THAT THAT HAPPEN TO THEM.IT—AIN'T GOOD TO BE LIKE GOD.AND GOD UNINTELLI- GIBLE.I MEAN,THEY WERE TOLD NOT TO TOUCH THAT TREE.SO IT MUST BEEN SOMETHING WRONG.PROBABLY GOD TELLS SOMEBODY...DON'T TOUCH THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE.UNLESS IT'S BAD FOR THEM.IT WAS BAD,ALL- RIGHT.UNTILL THEY TOUCHED THAT TREE THEY WAS ALLRIGHT. 10 i 2 [ n SO WHEN THEY TOUCHED THAT TREE THEN...THEY LISTENED TO THAT SERPANT THAT SAID,'YOU SHOULD BE AS GODS.'AND THE SERPANT TOLD THE TRUTH.BUT THEY COULDN'T REACH THE TREE OF LIFE,YOU HAD TO GET TO THE TREE OF LIFE AFTER YOU ATE OF THE TREE.YOU HAD TO GET TO THE TREE OF LIFE UNINTELLIGIBLE.AND THEN GOD PUT A BIG ANGEL THERE WITH A SWORD THAT THEY WOULDN'T...COULDN'T GET THERE.AND THAT'S THE REASON THEY DIED.SO THE SERPANT TOLD THE TRUTH.BUT THEY DIDN'T GET TO THAT OTHER TREE QUICK ENOUGH.SO THEY CAN'T SAY THE DEVIL LIED.HE TOLD THE TRUTH.BUT,HE DIDN'T TELL THEM THEY GOT TO GET TO THAT TREE.EVIDENTLY,THEY COULD GET TO THAT TREE ANYWAY.THERE(WAS)ONLY ONE FORBIDDEN TREE.AND AFTER THEY GOT ON OVER THERE ON THAT FORBIDDEN TREE THEY WAS...THEY WASN'T FOR- BIDDEN TO GET TO THE TREE OF LIFE BUT THEY HAD ANGELS THERE WITH A SWORD.AIN'T NOBODY GOING TO GO UP...DOUBLE EDGE SWORD.NO! UNINTELLIGIBLE ANGELS.WHEN GOD TELL THEM TO DO SOMETHING,THEY DO IT.WHEN YOU COME UP THERE YOU GET WHACKED.THEY COMPLETELY OBEDI- ENT TO GOD,YOU SEE.IF HE TELL THEM,NOW,DON'T LET THEM GO.ANGELS GOING TO BE OBEDIENT.HE NOT GOING TO UNINTELLIGIBLE.SO YOU GOT THAT SWORD.AND THEN JESUS CAME AND SAID,'I CAME TO BRING A SWORD.'IN A SENSE HE WAS AN ANGEL IN THAT INSTANCE.YEAH.HE WAS AN ANGEL.HE SAID,'YOU MUST HATE YOUR LIFE.'DON'T GO OVER THERE... MESSING AROUND WITH LIFE.'HE TOLD THEM THAT.DON'T NOBODY PREACH THAT.HE TOLD THEM YOU MUST HATE YOUR LIFE.AND WHY WOULD GOD PUT SOMEBODY THERE THAT KEEPS FORCING THEM TO THE TREE AND TELLING THEM...SENT HIS WORD AND SAY YOU MUST HATE YOUR LIFE?SO LIFE. THEN,MUST BE BAD.IT IS.HE SAY EITHER MAKE THE TREE GOOD OR MAKE IT EVIL.HE DIDN'T SAY,NOW,DON'T BE HAVING NO TREE TALKING ABOUT THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND THE EVIL.NOW MAKE THAT TREE EVIL OR MAKE IT GOOD.THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD THEM.SO THEN THE CREATOR DIDN'T LIKE THAT.AND YOU GOT A PEACH TREE'S A PEACH TREE.A PEAR TREE'S A PEAR TREE.SO YOU DON'T CALL A PEACH(A) PEAR TREE.YOU JUST CALL IT ONE THING.UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY MADE GOOD.EVEN GOOD EVIL BY HAVING THE TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL. JH:YOU WROTE A SONG ABOUT THAT.I REMEMBER YOU DID THAT OUT HERE IN '74.IT IS FORBIDDEN,STRICTLY FORBIDDEN... SR:OH YEAH,THAT'S A NICE SONG.I GOT A LOT OF SONGS INSTRUCTIVE TO PEOPLE.I'M NOT SEEKING TO BE NO MINISTER,NO LEADER BUT THEY WOULD LISTEN NOW BUT...ALL MY LIFE I TRIED TO BE OVER THERE, BEING NO LEADER.I DON'T NEED THAT.BUT,YOU SEE,THE CREATOR DON'T HAVE NOBODY ELSE BUT ME.SO I WOULDN'T DO IT FOR HUMANITY.I'D DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE NAME OF THE CREATOR...PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE CREATOR;THEY DON'T DESERVE TO KNOW ABOUT HIM. I'VE HAD SO MANY FOLKS I HELPED BETRAY ME AND BE...AND BE UN- GRATEFUL...UNINTELLIGIBLE.STAY OUT OF THE WAY.I COULD EASILY DO THAT.EGYPT IS WAITING FOR ME WITH OPEN ARMS.COME TO EGYPT.GO THERE IN THE DESERT AND JUST...STAY THERE.I'M NOT UNINTELLIGIBLE ON THAT.I'D GO RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.IT'S A FELLOW,HE'S A CAMEL DRIVER,HE SAY I CAN COME OUT,I CAN BRING THE BAND AND,YOU KNOW,THEY GOT SOME WONDERFUL TENTS THERE... CONVERSATION CONTINUES IN ISSUE FIFTEEN,PAGE ONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. ll THE MOOG SYNTHESIZER IN ITS POTENTIAL AND APPLICATION TO AND FOR THE FUTURE IS TREMENDOUS IN SCOPE,PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE CREATIVE NATURALS.IT MOST CERTAINLY IS WORTHY OF A PLACE IN MUSIC.THERE ARE MANY EFFECTS ON IT WHICH AT PRESENT ARE NOT UPON ANY INSTRUMENT.ON ONE OF MY COMPOSITIONS.MY BROTHER THE WIND,THE MOOG IS A PERFECT PROJECTIVE VOICE.OF COURSE.LIKE OTHER ELECTRONIC KEYBOARD INSTRUMENTS,IT WILL REQUIRE A DIFFERENT TECHNICAL APPROACH,TOUCH AND OTHERWISE IN MOST EFFORTS OF ENDEAVOR.IT IS A CHALLENGE TO THE MUSIC SCENE.PERHAPS IT MAY GALVANIZE MUSICIANS INTO HARMONY AND HARMONY UNITS AND THEY WILL BECOME EXPONENTS OF HARMONIC BROTHERHOODS,BANDED TOGETHER AT LAST TO ACHIEVE ENSEMBLE PRESENCE AND WORTH ACCORDING TO THE GREATER STANDARDS OF THE UNIVERSE... SOME MUSICIANS MAY FEAR THE SYNTHESIZER.IT IS AWESOME EVEN IN ITS PRIMARY DEVELOPMENT:BUT THIS IS A BOLD,AGGRESSIVE AGE,PIONEERING IN A SENSE BEYOND KNOWN FRONTIERS.MUSIC IS NOW A LANGUAGE OF EX- TENSIVE LANGUAGE(A PAN UNIVERSE INTERCESSOR),A LANGUAGE OF IM- PRESSION VIBRATIONS,AND AS SUCH IT IS A MAGNIFIED REITIRATION DI- MENSION OF PERMUTATES SOUND.NO DOUBT A SUITABLE BASIS FOR A SOUND WORLD... SURVIVAL IS THE WATCHWORD MORE THAN EVER FOR THE PLANET EARTH. MUSIC HAS ITS PLACE IN HISTORY AS AN INSPIRATION FOR SURVIVAL.IT WILL RETAIN THAT PLACE NOW AND DEMONSTRATE MORE THAN EVER BEFORE ITS PRICELESS VALUE TO HUMANITY,OTHER BEINGS AND THE UNIVERSE. PEOPLE ARE IN A FLUCTUATION OF CHANGE,BECAUSE OF THE VIBRATIONS IN THE UNIVERSE WHICH ARE DEMANDING OF THE EARTH AND ITS PEOPLES AN ADJUSTMENT TO AND RECOGNITION OF ITS PRESENCE IN ALL SPHERES OF THEIR LIVES,LIFE AND BEING POTENTIAL... SOME MUSICIANS CONTINUE TO FEEL THAT ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS ARE GIMMICKS AND TOYS BUT ITS ACTUALLY NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT. JUST AS IN ALL OTHER FIELDS OF MUSIC,THE ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENT WILL HAVE ITS NATURALS,THOSE WHO ARE ADEPT IN EVERY WAY FOR THE ELECTRONIC NATURAL APPROACH.AS FOR ME.I NEVER CONSIDER ANY IN- STRUMENT IN THE CATAGORY OF NO VALUE IN THE COMPOSERS WORLD OF CREATION;IT IS ALL ACCORDING TO THE TIME,THE PLACE,THE PERFORMER, THE PARTICULAR NEED OF THE_COMPOSITION AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN- VOLVED.ACCORDINGLY,ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS ARE NO EXCEPTION TO THAT CODE. I A THE MAIN POINT CONCERNING THE SYNTHESIZER IS THE SAME AS IN ALL OTHER INSTRUMENTS,THAT IS,ITS CAPACITY FOR THE PROJECTION OF FEELING.THIS WILL BE DETERMINED IN A LARGE DEGREE NOT JUST BY THE INSTRUMENT ITSELF,BUT AS ALWAYS IN MUSIC,BY THE MUSICIAN WHO PLAYS THE MUSIC. SUN RA WRITING ABOUT THE MOOG SYNTHESIZER........................ DOWN BEAT...JULY 23.l970.PAGES 34 AND 39........ . . . . . . . . ......... MORE THOUGHTS FROM VARIOUS MUSICIANS REGARDING SUN RA . . . . . . . . . .. THIRD IN AN ONGOING SERIES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. JACK DEJOHNETTE...DRUMMER,PIANIST AND COMPOSER... SUN RA WAS A BIG INFLUENCE IN CHICAGO.BACK THEN,AROUND l958,SUN RA WOULD BE READING COMIC BOOKS AND SPACE MAGAZINES AND EVERY- ONE USED TO THINK HE WAS CRAZY.I USED TO THINK HE WAS HALF AND HALF.BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT HIM-HE WAS HONEST-AND WHEN I HAD THE TIME I'D ALWAYS MAKE HIS REHEARSALS.I WAS TRYING TO DE- VELOP MYSELF AS A DRUMMER.AND IT WAS A GREAT EXPERIENCE TO PLAY WITH HIM. DOWN BEAT...NOVEMBER 2,1978.PAGE 26 DAVID MURRAY...SAXOPHONIST...COMPOSER... STILL,THE THING THAT I SEE AT THE HEART OF JAZZ IS THE SAME THING THAT WAS COMING OUT OF THE CHURCH-FOR ONE,THE WHOLE MATTER OF SPIRIT POSSESSION.NOBODY HAD TO TELL ME THAT PLAYING JAZZ ' WAS ABOUT FEELING,ABOUT'THE HOOK UP.'THAT'S WHY I CAN DIG THAT SOMEONE LIKE SUN RA'S ENERGY COMES FROM THAT SAME HOOK UP.IN FACT,SUNNY(MURRAY)TOLD ME THAT HE SAW SUN RA HOOK UP IN CENTRAL PARK ONCE. . DOWN BEAT...MARCH 25.l976.PAGE 39 YUSEF LATEEF...SAXOPHONIST...COMPOSER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH LEONARD FEATHER... \ SUN RA ARKESTRA...INTERSTELLAR LOW WAYS(COSMOS-INNER CITY) YEAH,YOU THREW ME DOWN THAT TIME,LEONARD.I'LL TAKE SOME GUESSES. I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS,BUT THE INSTRUMENTATION SOUNDED POSSIBLY LIKE A HARPSICHORD SOUND THAT YOU MIGHT GET ON AN ARP PRO SOLO- IST.IT SOUNDED ALSO AS IF THERE WERE AN ARP 2600 IN THE BACK- GROUND GIVING THAT EERIE,WINDLIKE EFFECT.I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT WAS A GUITAR OR A HARP. . . L I THE COMPOSITION SOUNDED SOMETHING LIKE WHAT MINGUS WOULD HAVE DONE AT SOME TIME IN HIS CAREER.IT WAS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN THE TUNE MUSIC YOU HERE THESE DAYS ON THE RADIO.I THINK THE COMPOSER HAD AN ORIGINAL CONCEPT.I THINK IT WAS COMPLETE IN ITSELF-I COULD A HEAR THE FORM.THE FORM WAS VERY SIMPLE,IN FACT,BUT IT WAS QUITE REPETITIOUS.IT WASN'T THROUGH COMPOSED-IT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN DEVELOPED MORE.A LOT OF THINGS COULD HAVE HAPPENED;BUT I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO HAPPEN,AND IT SOUNDED AS THOUGH HE PULLED IT OFF. DOWN BEAT...JANUARY 26,1978.PAGE 31 STANLEY TURRENTINE...SAXOPHONIST... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH BRET PRIMACK... SUN RA ARKESTRA...TAKE THE A TRAIN(LIVE AT MONTREUX—INNER CITY) NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.THAT'S MAX(ROACH).AND I THINK BILLY HARPER ON TENOR.I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO HEAR ANYBODY ELSE,THEY WERE PLAY- ING KIND OF FAST,AS MAX USUALLY DOES.I HAVE TO GIVE IT THREE STARS.I KNOW IT'S MAX.IT'S GOT TO BE. BRET PRIMACK:JOHN GILMORE WAS THE TENOR AND CLIFFORD JARVIS ON THE DRUMS. STANLEY TURRENTINE:NO KIDDING.WELL,THEN I'M GOING TO TAKE THAT THREE BACK.HE SOUNDS SO MUCH LIKE MAX,LIKE A CARBON COPY.LIKE HE PICKED UP EACH RECORD MAX EVER PLAYED AND LEARNED EVERY SOLO THAT MAX PLAYED.HE SOUNDS SO MUCH LIKE MAX.JOHN GILMORE SOUNDS GOOD. HE ALWAYS DID.I'LL GIVE IT THREE STARS JUST ON THE STRENGTH OF HIM. DOWN BEAT...DECEMBER 7,1978.PAGE 31 WILBUR CAMPBELL...DRUMMER... I RECORDED WITH SUN RA IN '56 OR '57.IT WAS A DIFFERENT EXPER- IENCE WITH SUN,BUT HIS MUSIC HAS ALWAYS HAD A FLETCHER HENDERSON ' FLAVOR.WHAT MADE IT LESS ODD TO ME IS THAT I WOULD COME DOWN TO REHEARSAL EVEN WHEN I WASN'T PLAYING,SO I SORT OF SAW SUN GROW UP WITH HIS BIG BAND.I'VE BEEN KNOWING SUN SINCE THE '40'S AND WE PLAYED QUITE A FEW GIGS TOGETHER. DOWN BEAT...OCTOBER 1979.PAGES 25 AND 26. RAN BLAKE. . .PIANIST. . .COMPOSER. .. BLINDFOLD TEST WITH ART LANGE... SUN RA...SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE A MOTHERLESS CHILD(SOLO PIANO. VOLUME ONE-IMPROVISING ARTISTS) I LIKED THE PULSE,THE LEFT HAND,AND ALSO THE BREAKS IN THE RHYTHM—THE RUBATO ALWAYS FRESHENED THE RYTHYM WHEN IT CAME BACK, INSTEAD OF THE TYRANNY,THE MONOTONY OF THE RHYTHM.THERE WAS THE FEELING THIS PERSON LISTENED TO DOLLAR BRAND-I HEARD SOME AFRICA IN THERE.I WANT TO COMPLIMENT THE PIANIST ON THE LACK OF RIGHT HAND FLASH. IT'S HARD TO GET A SENSE OF IDENTITY.SOMEONE WHO'D HAVE THAT SENSE OF THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE MUSIC WOULD BE JAKI BYARD, AND MIGHT DO THIS.AS THE PIECE WENT ON I HEARD A CECIL TAYLOR INFLUENCE-I WISH MAYBE MORE OF THAT HAD BEEN AT THE BEGINNING. IT WAS A LITTLE LONG-A GOOD TITLE FOR THIS MIGHT BE MOTHERLESS CHILD THEME AND VARIATIONS-I MISSED THE ARC.THE CURVE,AND WHERE THE CLIMAX WAS.YET IT WAS GOOD THE ARTIST CONTINUED,SINCE EACH VARIATION OFFERED A FASCINATING ARRAY OF COLORS.I HAVEN'T THE FAINTEST IDEA WHO IT IS,BUT I'M VERY,VERY IMPRESSED. DOWN BEAT...MARCH 1980.PAGE 53. ' Ts\\\\'l'\"\'\'-'.° I'M NOT DEALING WITH FREEDOM. AMERIcANs ARE IN LOVE WITH THE wORD FREEDOM. I'M DEALING WITH REALITY. PEOPLE SAY MAN'S NATURAL sTATE IS FREEDOM. BUT FREEDOM Is NOT wHAT MY Music IS ABOUT. A MAN Is NOTHING WITHOUT D|s<u>uNE. sUN RA MAR<H 1989 LAS VEGAS MORNING (ALL. PAGE F1 MARCH 18, 1989 l ) . . A RAER“ ¢O§/ER OUOTEFROMTHE NEwsDApER - PROVIDENCE RHODE IsLAND,1UNE 4, 1986, PAGE ONE. I WANT To MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ALL THIS HIIACKINC AND TERRORISM IF MEN COULD IUST HEAR SOMEONE IWHO woum GIVE THEM HoPE. i MY MUSIC COULD CHANCE THIS, I THE BEASTIAL SIDE OF PEOPLE WOULD SIT BACK AND LISTEN. I'VE BEEN LOW PROFILE. I COULD'VE HAD A LOT OF MONEY OR CONE TO HOLLYWOOD, BUT IsTooI> BACK BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT ME. I DIDN'T WANT ANYONE TO REMAKE ME. I KNOW WHAT I'M SUPPOSED To . . . HELP PEOPLE GET ouT as THE MISERABLE SITUATION } THEY'RE IN. I'VE KNOWN THAT SINCE I wAs A CHILD. SUN RA 1986
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-16
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 17 (June, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-06-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: wHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT Is AI., AND Is II1IzEsIsTIBI.E, AN PIS . YQUISTA RT P RV IN <-%BTH|N 45 BY YOU c.OT SOMET THAT's wHAT THIS PLANET NVE,EDs':“ EVERYBODY NEEDS BACK To E R sI<IIi‘~OI, THEvaOTTAsHEI: THEIR DESTINY, I ANQ I=INI2 ANQTHER ONE. I CALL IT THE vIcE DESTINY, LIKE _ YOU HAVE PRESIDENT AND \llCE‘ PRESIDENT.‘ <OUnsE, lI= YOU'D IIEADBMV BOOK, THE ‘llw\A\EASURAB|.EI. EQUATION,’ YOU'D‘? KNOW BETTER wI-IAT TAI.l(lNG f ABOUT. I DON'T THINK” YOU CAN c.ET THAT, NOT Now. . . I HADTO PAY FOR IT MYSELF, ‘CAUSE IN AM.EIzI¢A,ITHE MAIN PUBLISHERS SAID IT MIGHT As wEI.I. BE WRITTEN IN A FORE IGN‘ LANGUAGE As FAR As THEY WERE CONCERNED. IT SEEMED TO BE POETRY, IN AsENsE. BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S EQUATIONS, PUT IN NI<E FORMS. IUsT LIKE .3%PU'l'TlNG SOME cHO<OI.ATE ON TOP OF IT. IT wAs JUST sO STRANGE TOH1-HEM,IBE<AUsEE THEY GOT THEIR FIXED OI>INIONs. sUN BA SUN RA RESEAR OMNI PRESS. ED I I RAE, CA 94030 © 1998 V’? S: SINGLE ...
Show morewHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT Is AI., AND Is II1IzEsIsTIBI.E, AN PIS . YQUISTA RT P RV IN <-%BTH|N 45 BY YOU c.OT SOMET THAT's wHAT THIS PLANET NVE,EDs':“ EVERYBODY NEEDS BACK To E R sI<IIi‘~OI, THEvaOTTAsHEI: THEIR DESTINY, I ANQ I=INI2 ANQTHER ONE. I CALL IT THE vIcE DESTINY, LIKE _ YOU HAVE PRESIDENT AND \llCE‘ PRESIDENT.‘ <OUnsE, lI= YOU'D IIEADBMV BOOK, THE ‘llw\A\EASURAB|.EI. EQUATION,’ YOU'D‘? KNOW BETTER wI-IAT TAI.l(lNG f ABOUT. I DON'T THINK” YOU CAN c.ET THAT, NOT Now. . . I HADTO PAY FOR IT MYSELF, ‘CAUSE IN AM.EIzI¢A,ITHE MAIN PUBLISHERS SAID IT MIGHT As wEI.I. BE WRITTEN IN A FORE IGN‘ LANGUAGE As FAR As THEY WERE CONCERNED. IT SEEMED TO BE POETRY, IN AsENsE. BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S EQUATIONS, PUT IN NI<E FORMS. IUsT LIKE .3%PU'l'TlNG SOME cHO<OI.ATE ON TOP OF IT. IT wAs JUST sO STRANGE TOH1-HEM,IBE<AUsEE THEY GOT THEIR FIXED OI>INIONs. sUN BA SUN RA RESEAR OMNI PRESS. ED I I RAE, CA 94030 © 1998 V’? S: SINGLE COPY $5.00. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA.JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS.............. THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 20,1984...PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL . . . . . . ..... BERKELEY,CALIFORNIA...ca................................... o o o o ow SUN RA:EUROPE SAYS THAT.THEY SAY,WELL,ONE THING THEY GOT AGAINST ME(IS)I INSIST ON STAYING IN AMERICA.THEY PUT THAT IN THE PAPER. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT THEY DISLIKE ABOUT ME.I INSIST ON STAYING HERE...IN THIS COUNTRY.SO,IF I GO TO EUROPE I GOT ALL THOSE COUNTRIES TO PLAY FOR.I WON'T HAVE TO BE PAID NO MONEY TO COME...GO BACK AND FORTH.I BE OVER THERE ALL THE TIME. JOHN HINDS:YEAH.WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME?AM I GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE OVER THERE TO SEE YOU,THOUGH?(LAUGHS) SUN RA:WELL,IT'S PROBABLY A BETTER PLACE THAN OVER HERE,IN A SENSE.YOU GOT A LOT OF AMERICANS OVER THERE GOING TO SCHOOL.YOU GOT A LOT OF AMERICANS OVER THERE BEING GIVEN GRANTS AND THINGS IF THEY SCULPTORS AND MUSICIANS.THEY GIVING THEM MONEY TO STAY THERE.THEY MOVING OUT ALL THE ARTISTIC THINGS AND THE CREATIVE THINGS OUT OF AMERICA TO EUROPE.BLACK AND WHITE...OR WHATEVER. THEY DON'T CARE.EUROPE HAS MADE UP IT'S MIND,GERMANY TOO,IT PREFERS CULTURE TO WAR.AND GERMANS ARE PUTTING UP A LOT OF MONEY FOR CULTURAL THINGS AT THIS POINT.SO I COULD GO THERE...AND STAY IN GERMANY.THE GERMANS REALLY LIKE...THEY LIKE WHAT I'M DOING. THEY LIKE WHAT I'M DOING.I DON'T KNOW...IN ORDER FOR...THE MENTAL STATE OF THE HAPPINESS OF THE FOLKS IN THE BAND.I KNOW I'D HAVE TO LEAVE HERE...THIS TIME I'D PROBABLY STAY IN EGYPT.I'M NOT COMING OUT.I DON'T HAVE NO NEED TO COM OUT.THAT'LL BE IT.STAY RIGHT THERE.YOU WANT TO SEE ME THEY COME TO EGYPT.DOWN THERE TOWARD THE DELTA...I MEAN...DOWN AND FURTHER DOWN IN THERE THEY SAY LUXOR IS SO BEAUTIFUL.THEY SAY IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL DOWN THERE. I NEVER BEEN DOWN THERE.I NEVER HAD THE OPPURTUNITY TO BE THERE BECAUSE EVERY TIME I GO TO EGYPT THEY BE GIVING ME A JOB IN CAIRO.AND IT WOULD BE SO WHERE INSTEAD,LIKE EVERY OTHER DAY OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS SO'I CAN'T GO DOWN THERE FIRST,LIKE,IF I PLAYED TWO DAYS IN A WEEK I CAN GO DOWN THERE AND COME BACK.BUT IF I PLAYED THREE DAYS OR FOUR DAYS I CAN'T GO NOWHERE.AND I'VE NEVER BEEN DOWN THERE.SO,I COULD WORK IN ALEXANDRIA,TOO.ITS... IT'S A BIG CITY. JH:BUT THERE'S...I CAN'T THINK OF ANYBODY THAT'S GOING TO DO IT WHAT YOU CAN DO.I MEAN.YOU GOT A FEW PEOPLE WHO COULD EVEN,YOU KNOW.WELL,WHO'S AROUND?LIONEL HAMPTON.HE'S A JAZZ PERSON.HE KNOWS... SR:LIONEL HAMPTON IS ANGRY WITH ME. JH:WHAT ABOUT HIM?HE'S ANGRY WITH YOU? SR:HM HM(YES). JH:WHY?'CAUSE YOU TOOK WALTER MILLER?(LAUGHS) SR:WELL...HE REALLY...ACCORDING TO WALTER HE REALLY APPRECIATED WHAT I'M DOING BUT WHAT HAPPENED IS ONE TIME HE WANTED ME TO COME.HE WAS PLAYING AT THE SHOWBOAT IN NEW YORK.HE WANTED ME TO COME THERE.WE WERE GOING TO PUT ON OUR SPACE SUITS AND EVERYTHING AND BE INTERVIEWED AND EVERYTHING AND I DIDN'T DO IT SO HE UNIN- TEELIGIBLE ABOUT IT AND HE SAID I SLIGHTED HIM BUT I REALLY DIDN'T.BUT I FELT THAT I WASN'T READY FOR THAT.NOT AT THAT TIME. BUT IT WAS BAD I DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP BUT I WAS BUSY AND(I WAS) WORKING ON A TIME,WORKING ON A TIME SCHEDULE AND I'D HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN THINGS READY AT A PARTICULAR TIME.IF I DON'T THE CREATOR PUTS ME IN DIFFICULTY.I HAVE TO HAVE IT.I HAVE TO BE READY.ALL THE'TIME.OTHERWISE I LOSE SOMETHING LIKE LOSING THAT MUSIC.MAYBE I SHOULD...I SHOULD HAVE JUST TAKEN ONE PERSON WITH ME AND I WOULD HAVE HAD IT,MAYBE.BUT I TOOK TWO SO THEY COULD TAKE CARE OF MY STUFF(AND)IT DIDN'T WORK.UNINTELLIGIBLE THE DRUMER HASN'T BEEN IN THE BAND LONG AND HE DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH DISCIPLINE YET AND TYRONE(HILL)AIN'T GOT TOO MUCH,EITHER SO...THIS BAND IS A BAND FOR UNINTELLIGIBLE . . . . . . . . ..I COULD MOVE TO ENGLAND.SCOTLAND LIKES ME AND...YOU KNOW,IRISH.ALL THEM NATIONS LIKE ME.WHEN I'M OVER THERE IT'S THE BEST PLACE I CAN BE.NOT HERE.AT LEAST MY SPIRIT IS TELLING ME TO LEAVE HERE AND NOT COME BACK.AFRICA... AFRICA WANT ME NOW.DON'T HAVE MUCH MONEY BUT I DON'T HAVE NONE HERE EITHER SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?AND THEY LIKE JAZZ.SOUTH AFRICA WOULD BE BETTER THAN HERE BUT THEY TELL ME IN SOUTH AFRICA THAT ON ONE STREET THEY GOT ABOUT SEVEN JAZZ RECORD SHOPS THAT SELL NOTHING BUT JAZZ AND THEY BLACK PEOPLE.AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT HERE.I AIN'T...(LAUGHS)BUT THEY GOT THAT.AND THEY GOT THEIR OWN TV STATIONS,OWN RADIO STATIONS,THEIR OWN STORES SO THAT'S PART OF THINGS IN SOUTH AFRICA.ELO'S BROTHER STAYED IN ISRAEL A LONG TIME AND HE SAYS HE'S A BLACK HEBREW AND IT WAS SO BAD THERE HE HAD TO LEAVE.HE CAME BACK HERE AND HE SAID SOUTH AFRICA IS PARADISE COMPARED TO ISRAEL THEY WAY THEY TREAT LOTS OF PEOPLE. HE SAID THEY TERRIBLE.THE JEWS.HE SAID IT'S RIDICULOUS.THEY STAYED OVER THERE.THEY DIDN'T TREAT THEM LIKE THEY WERE HUMAN. DIDN'T RECOGNIZE...THEY DID HIM WORSE THAN HITLER...ALTHOUGH THEY TALK ABOUT THE WAY PEOPLE TREAT...IT WAS THESE BLACK PEOPLE WENT OVER THERE WHO WAS...THESE BLACK HEBREWS.THEY TREATED THEM BAD. SO BAD.ELO'S BROTHER ...HE HAD TO LEAVE.AND ANOTHER BLACK WOMAN GONE THERE SAID SHE'S BEEN ALL OVER...TREAT BLACK PEOPLES VERY BAD.VERY PRETENTIOUS.SO,THAT'S IT.SO,THAT'S WHY EVENTUALLY BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TO GO BACK TO AFRICA SOMEWHERE.I SUPPOSE,EVENTUALLY, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.THE WHITE PEOPLE THERE... PROBABLY SELL A MILLION BLACK FOLKS THAT ARE GOING TO LEAVE THIS COUNTRY BUT I'LL LEAVE IT HERE.I AIN'T WAITING.THEY SAID THEY GOING TO DO IT.IF I LEAVE IT.THEY KNOW IF I DON'T GET A CHANCE,AS MUCH AS I GOT TO OFFER,THEY NEVER WILL GET ONE.THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOKING AT.THEY FIGURE AS MUCH AS I'M KNOWN WORLDWIDE AS I AM,IF AMERICA DOESN'T GIVE ME A CHANCE THEY DON'T HAVE ONE.AND THAT IS GOOD LOGIC. JH:THAT IS LOGICAL.VERY LOGICAL. SR:'CAUSE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT REVOLUTION.I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT...EQUAL RIGHTS.I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT NOTHING THAT THREATENS THIS GOVERNMENT.I'M OFFERING BEAUTY.SINCERITY.AND THIS SORT OF NATION THAT HAVE NO PLACE FOR THAT IS NOT GOING TO STAND ANYWAY. IT CAN'T STAND. JH:I KNOW.THAT'S THE PROBLEM.THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. SR:SO I GOT,I GOT SO MANY THINGS I'VE WRITTEN IN THAT HOUSE AND SCATTERED AROUND THE OFFICE YOU WOULDN'T EVEN BELIEVE IT.I DONE NOTHING BUT WORK,WORK,WORK,WORK,WORK.YOU SEE ALL OF THIS?(hEFERS TO SHEET MUSIC LAYING ON THE BED)THIS AIN'T NOTHING.UNINTELLI- GIBLE SEE I HAVE WRITTEN METICULOUSLY.I'VE BEEN SINCERE. JH:THAT'S AMAZING. SR:THAT'S A WHOLE LIFETIME DOING SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL.NOW,IT COMES TO A PLACE...I BELIEVE IN JUSTICE.NOW,I CAN'T BE TALKING ABOUT JUSTICE FOR NOBODY ELSE NOW.I GOT TO DO JUSTICE FOR UNINTELLI- GIBLE AND MYSELF.AND REALLY,THE BEST THING I CAN DO IS TO GET OUT OF THIS COUNTRY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.AND STAY OUT.WON'T BE BACK. JH:YOU NEED...YOU NEED THE GREASE AND THAT'S THE MONEY,I GUESS. 'CAUSE YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING ELSE.BUT YOU NEED THE GREASE TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.THAT MONEY THING.TO GREASE THE MACHINE.THAT'S A PROBLEM.IT GETS TIGHT LIKE THAT AND YOU'RE JUST STRAPPED. SR:I SUPPOSE I NEED APPRECIATION,TOO.MONEY WOULDN'T DO ME NO GOOD WITHOUT APPRECIATION BECAUSE THEN I'D FEEL WHAT I'M DOING IS NOT...POURING IT DOWN THE DRAIN.IF I'M NOT APPRECIATED AND GOT ALL THAT MONEY AIN'T NO NEED OF ME BEING OUT THERE FOR THE PUBLIC IF THEY DON'T APPRECIATE IT.IT'S RIDICULOUS. JH:TRUE.BUT IT'S,LIKE,IN SCHOOLS.THEY DON'T WANT TO TEACH KIDS THAT.THEY JUST WANT TO HAVE,YOU KNOW,MAKE THEIR MINDS NUTS AND BOLTS. SR:THAT'S'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANT NOTHING ELSE.YOU SEE,I WANT SOME- THING ELSE SO,THEREFORE,IF THOSE KIDS WANTED SOMETHING ELSE THEY'D DO LIKE I DID.JUST DEFY EVERYBODY AND LEARN.BUT THEY NOT DOING THAT.THEY PERFECTLY SATISFIED TO BE WHAT THEY ARE. JH:CONSUMERS. SR:IF PEOPLE CAN(BE A)PART OF SOMETHING THEY...THEY FIGHT BACK. BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE SATISFIED.THEY SATISFIED.I'M NOT SATISFIED. (LOOKS AT SHEET MUSIC)THAT'S SHADOW WORLD.THAT'S INCREDIBLE SOUND UNINTELLIGIBLE SOME OF IT. JH:I KNOW.THAT 7/4 THING.LIKE IT SAYS RIGHT THERE.THAT REED THING.WHEN DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT?THAT THING THEY DO. SR:SHADOW WORLD? JH:YEAH.THAT'S ALWAYS IMPRESSED ME...BUT THAT 7/4 THING. SR:7/4?THAT'S SHADOW WORLD. JH:WHEN DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT DUET? SR:IN NEW YORK. JH:NEW YORK.AFTER CHICAGO AND YOU WENT TO NEW YORK-TORONTO,I GUESS,AND YOU WENT TO NEW YORK. SR:WELL,I THINK IT WAS EARLY...IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DONE,PROBABLY DONE IN CHICAGO AND THEN I FINISHED IT IN NEW YORK.I WROTE(IT) OUT FOR THE BAND.SOME THINGS,YOU SEE,I PLAY ON THE PIANO LIKE THAT AND THEN I UNINTELLIGIBLE MIGHT DECIDE TO WRITE IT FOR THE BAND.UNINTELLIGIBLE GOT SOMETHING IN THERE AND THEN SOMETIME IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO PLAY THAT BECAUSE.BECAUSE IT'S WRITTEN FOR THE PIANO AND THEY GOT TO,HAVE TO TAKE IT AND TURN IT AROUND FOR INSTRUMENTS.IT TAKES...PIANISTIC THINGS THAT DON'T SOUND AS...IT'S(NO)GOOD UNLESS YOU CHANGE THE KEY.IT'S REALLY INVOLVED. YOU GOT TO CHANGE THE KEY FOR THE HORNS WHERE THEY'LL SOUND MORE BRILLIANT AND YOU HAVE TO PICK OUT THE RIGHT KEY.THAT'S THE AN- SWER.SO IT'S NOT AN EASY JOB.YOU GOT TO HAVE...IT'S GOT TO BE... YOU GOT TO BE A NATURAL.I'M A NATURAL,YOU SEE.I'M A NATURAL FIG- URING OUT PROBLEMS,TOO.I GOT TO FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM OF ME.I'D BE HAPPIER SOMEWHERE ELSE. JH:OH.THERE'S THIS THING IN THE MIDDLE OF HALLOWEEN IN HARLEM THAT YOU DO.IT'S,LIKE,AFTER THEY PLAY THE THING AND YOU DO THIS LITTLE INTERLUDE ON THE PIANO.(SINGS) SR:IN THAT LITTLE PART(IT)GOES TO ANOTHER TIME. JH:IT'S WILD.THAT'S REALLY WILD.IT'S LIKE THESE CHORDS.(SINGS) THAT'S A GREAT BASS LINE. JH:I DON'T KNOW.THAT'S ONE THING ABOUT HAVING A UNITED STATED CITIZENSHIP,I GUESS.IT'S A LITTLE.MAYBE A LITTLE STRONGER,YOU THINK?IF YOU'RE IN TROUBLE SOMEWHERE OR DO YOU FIND THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL. . SR:BUT THEY AIN'T TREATING ME RIGHT.A PLACE WHERE YOU NOT BEING TREATED RIGHT IS NOT HOME...THE EGYPTIANS HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING BUT HELP ME,YOU KNOW.THEY BE TRYING TO HELP ME ALL THE TIME.BUT THEY WOULD HELP ME MUCH MORE IF I WAS AN EGYPTIAN CITIZEN. ALTHOUGH IT'S A POOR COUNTRY IT'S A SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT AND BY BEING A SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT THEY HELP PEOPLE AND THEY GOT A LOT OF MONEY FOR PROJECTS. JH:IS THAT EGYPT'S STUDIO THAT YOU DID THAT SALAH RAGAB THING? THAT WAS AN EGYPTIAN STUDIO? SR:YES. JH:GOVERNMENT STUDIO? SR:NO.THAT WAS PRIVATE UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY DON'T HAVE BUT ONE THERE.(YAWNS)UNINTELLIGIBLE.ALL THEY HAVE TO DO...MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THERE AND THEY CAN'T TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING'CAUSE THEY HAVE SO MANY UNINTELLIGIBLE WITH RECORDING.(LOOKS THROUGH SHEET MUSIC)A LOT OF SONGS...I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO PLAY.LET MB SEE.NOW. JH:WHY DID YOU WAIT 'TILL,WHAT WAS IT,LIKE,1955 TO PUT OUT A RECORD? SR:BECAUSE I FELT THAT PEOPLE WRE GOING TO MISTREAT ME THE WAY THEY DONE EVERY OTHER BLACK MUSICIAN.AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.I DIDN'T WANT TO BE MISTREATED.AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE I FELT IT WOULD BE FUTILE AND IT WOULD BE A RIPOFF AND THEY WOULDN'T GOING TO DO RIGHT 50 I STAYED OUT OF THE WAY. JH:YEAH.IT'S KIND OF A...ISN'T IT A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD IF YOU DON'T RECORD THEN YOU CAN'T BE HEARD BY A WIDER AUDIENCE AND IF YOU RECORD THE COMPANY WILL RIP YOU OFF? SR:IT AIN'T NO PROBLEM.ALL I HAVE TO DO IS WRITE FOR A RUSSIAN BAND.THEY WANT THIS MUSIC.SO ALL I HAVE TO DO IS START TO WRITE AN ARRANGEMENT(AND)THEY'LL SEND ME SOME MONEY.THERE'S NP PROBLEM. IF I...THEY GOT THREE REPERTORY BANDS IN RUSSIA.IF I TELL THEM I'LL ARRANGE FOR THEM THEY'LL PAY M£.AND THEY'LL HAVE THE MUSIC INSTEAD OF AMERICA. JH:THAT WOULD BE WILD IF OVER A PERIOD OF TIME JAZZ WAS TRANS- PLANTED TO RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING. SR:RIGHT!THAT IS THE ANSWER FOR ME.TRANSPLANT THE HEADQUARTERS OF JAZZ FROM HERE TO RUSSIA. JH:WELL,YOU'RE THE MAN TO DO IT'CAUSE I THINK... SR:I KNOW I CAN DO IT.THAT'S WHY I SAY ALL I HAVE TO DO IS CATCH A PLANE AND GO TO RUSSIA AND I'M THERE.AND IF JOHN(GILMORE)AND THEM(THE ARKESTRA)WANT TO COME,THEY CAN COME.IF THEY DON'T,THEY CAN STAY HERE.NO PROBLEM. JH:YEAH.'CAUSE YOU'RE THE ONLY MAN WHO CAN DO IT NOW.COUNT BASIE CAN'T DO IT.EARL(HINES)... SR:HE NEVER COULD DO IT BECAUSE.SEE,HE WASN'T A COMPOSER,REALLY. JH:THAT'S TRUE. SR:AND I KNOW ALL FORMS OF(MUSIC)...I KNOW ALL ABOUT RUSSIAN CLASSICS.I CAN TAKE THEM CLASSICS AND JAZZ THEM UP.I CAN TAKE THE CLASSICS AND MAKE THEM SOUND EVEN BETTER AS A DIRECTOR.AND IT WOULD BE PERFECT. JH:YOU NEED SOMETHING LIKE THAT'CAUSE EVEN...YOU KNOW,YOU GET PEOPLE OVER IN THIS COUNTRY THAT,YOU KNOW,IF THEY JUST WORK A JOB THAT'S JUST NOTHING... SR:ALL I HAVE To Do IS CATCH A PLANE BY MYSELF AND LEAVE THE | BAND(AND)GIVE IT up AND GO To RUSSIA.THAT'S IT.AND JOHN(GILMORE) a AND THEM WOULDN'T BE WORRIED.I MEAN THEY'D BE....THEY'D GET soME I JOBS. ! l JH:OH YEAH.SURE,THEY COULD WORK. PLANE AND GO TO RUSSIA AND TELL THEM I WANT TO CHANGE MY CITIZEN- SHIP.IT WOULD BE WORLD NEWS.IT WOULD EMBBARRASS AMERICA AND I HAVE'SOMETHING TO OFFER THEM AND THEY'D TAKE CARE OF ME BECAUSE THEY GOT THIS SYSTEM WHERE THEY DO HAVE A CULTURE DEPARTMENT THAT TAKE CARE OF MUSICIANS.AND I'M GOING TO HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.I'D HAVE AN ARKESTRA THERE AND ALL OF THEM DEDICATED TO MUSIC.IT WOULDN'T BE ABOUT POLITICS.IT WOULDN'T BE ABOUT NOTHING BUT MUSIC. SR:THEY'D GET JOBS.THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO DO.LEAVE HERE.CATCH A E I I ; I t JH:WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE. 4 I SR:IT wounn EE NIcE.ANn I WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT N0 SHOE ? STRING(BUDGET),I WOULDN'T HAVE To WORRY ABOUT NO MONEY.THEY'D § TAKE CARE or ME. 3 JH:WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE. SR:OF COURSE IT WOULD.IT'S THE LOGICAL THING TO DO.I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.SO IF I STAY OVER HERE AND SUFFER IT'S MY OWN FOOLISH- NESS,YOU KNOW.SACRIFICING MYSELF FOR SOMEBODY WHO DON'T CARE NOTHING ABOUT ME AND I DON'T SEE WHY I SHOULD DO THAT. JH:YEAH.TRUE. SR:NOT ANY MORE I DON'T.I NEVER SHOULD HAVE DONE IT.I SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN EGYPT.WHERE IF I HAD...I LIKE THE COUNTRY,THEY LIKE ME, THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS ABOUT ME...THE YOUNGER SET THERE LIKES ME. WHAT AM I WAITING ON?IT'S DOWN TO THAT,NOW.GOT TO MAKE A MOVE. -NOW,LET ME SEE.IF I DID THAT I COULD SEND AND GET THE MUSICIANS WHO I KNOW WHO ARE CREATIVE AND THEY'D COME TO RUSSIA.IT IS,BE SOME BIG COUNTRY AND THEY DON'T...THEY NOT BASING THEIR SYSTEM ON MONEY...YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO CHANGE YOUR MONEY TO AMERICAN MONEY BUT YOU CAN BUY THINGS.AND THEY WOULD APPRECIATE IT. YEAH.WELL THAT'S IT.THAT'S MY NEXT MOVE.TO_CHANGE MY CITIZEN- SHIP TO RUSSIA.THEY ALWAYS COME OVER AND I SAY,'WELL,I WANT TO DEFECT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN TREATED RIGHT BY AMERICANS.WHITE OR BLACK.'AND I FEEL THAT...A PERSON WHO IS REALLY TALENTED SHOULDN'T WASTE THEIR TALENT ON A COUNTRY THAT IS MORE INTERESTED IN MONEY AND EQUALITY AND ALL THAT FOOLISHNESS AND NEGLECTING ARTISTS IS NOT A GOOD COUNTRY FOR A CREATIVE ARTIST TO BE IN. JH:THAT'S FOR SURE. SR:AND THAT'S WHAT AMERICA IS.I EXPOSE THEM TO THE WORLD.GO TO RUSSIA(AND)STAY THERE.I DON'T NEED TO BE OVER HERE.MY SPIRIT IS GETTING REBELLIOUS,YOU KNOW.MY MIND MY TELL ME IT'S THE BEST PLACE TO BE BECAUSE OF THE MONEY BUT MY SPIRIT DON'T CARE ABOUT NO MONEY.SO WHEN YOU GOT A WAR BETWEEN YOUR SPIRIT AND YOUR MIND YOU(ARE)IN TROUBLE.THAT'S WHAT I GOT NOW. JH:YEAH.THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME KIND OF SOLUTION.IT'S JUST A MATTER OF FIGURING IT OUT,WHICH STEP... SR:THERE IS.CATCH A PLANE AND LAND IN MOSCOW WITHOUT A RETURN TICKET.ONE WAY.THE ANSWER.AND I CAN'T COME BACK.DON'T HAVE NO MONEY. JH:BUT EVEN THE,ALMOST,LOEST PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY HAS A CHANCE TO,YOU KNOW,”FINANCIAL SECURITY”AND THINGS LIKE THIS IF YOU BUY INTO THE SYSTEM. ’ SR:I HAVE NEVER SEEN A CREATIVE ARTIST IN AMERICA MAKE IT.I KNEW MANY OF THEM.I SEE SOME PEOPLE THAT WHITE PEOPLE BACKED WHO THEY WANT TO BACK BUT THEY DID NOT BACK UP THE CREATIVE ARTIST AND I'VE SEEN A WHOLE LIFETIME OF CREATIVE ARTISTS GETTING NEGLECTED. AND NOT ONE MADE IT. JI-I:AND,AS YOU KNOW,DUKE ELLINGTON HAD TO PAY HIS BAND our or-' pocxsr AND mom SONG ROYALTIES.THI-ZY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE rr oN THE ROAD,YOU I<Now.1'M suns YOU'VE READ IN HIS aoox AND organ PLACES, HE DIDN'T EVEN... - 4 SR:DUKE ELLINGTON NEVER MADE MONEY AT ALL.HE WAS RIPPED OFF,HE WAS RIPPED OFF BY IRVING MILLS WHO HAD TWO SETS OF BOOKS AND DUKE WENT UP THERE ONE DAY LOOKING AT THE ROYALTY STATEMENT AND THEY HAD,THE SECRETARY SHOWED HIM THE OTHER BOOK AND HE WAS SO IN- FURIATED HE QUIT IRVING MILLS BUT... IT WASN'T TOO GOOD FOR HIM AFTER THAT BECAUSE HE WAS RIDING PULLMANS(PRIVATE TRAIN)AND THEN HE HAD TO RIDE IN BUSSES AND THINGS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE,IN CARS. HE DIDN'T REALLY GET SUPPORT FROM BLACK PEOPLE.IN FACT,WHEN THEY WAS DOING ALL THIS FREEDOM STUFF IN WASHINGTON A CONGO DRUMMER SAID HE SAW DUKE ELLINGTON CRY.BECAUSE THEY PUT EVERYBODY ON BUT HIM.HE HAD HIS WHOLE BAND THERE TO GO ON,AND THIS IS WHEN REVE- REND KING WAS THERE AND THEY CALLED ALL KIND OF GROUPS BUT HIM AND DUKE CRIED.NOW,I'M NOT SAYING THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO NEGLECT,I'M SAYING AMERICANS NEGLECT CREATIVE ARTS.THEY BACK UP COUNTRY MUSIC.THEY BACK ROCK AND ROLL.THEY BACK EVERY- THING BUT PEOPLE LIKE ME SO WE DON'T NEED TO BE HERE.EVERY PERSON LIKE ME NEEDS TO PULL UP STAKES AND LEAVE HERE.SO.YOU SEE.IT'S AT THAT POINT.BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE INTO RELIGION.THEY INTERESTﬂI IN POLITICS,THEY INTERESTED IN EQUALITY WITH WHITE PEOPLE.THEY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME. JH:THEY BETTER FIND TIME OR THEN THEY'RE IN TROUBLE.AND THEY ARE IN TROUBLE. SR:YEAH.THEY ARE IN TROUBLE.THEY'VE BEEN IN TROUBLE EVER SINCE O THEY'VE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY.THEY HAVE TO...IS ALL KIND OF THINGS THAT'S NOT GOOD.THEY OSTRACIZE FROM THE REST OF THE AFRICANSgAND V‘ THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY.WHO GOT THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.GOT"' — THEIR OWN HALL OF JUSTICE AND HERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DON'T HAVE EVEN A HALL OF JUSTICE.EVERY NATION ON THE FACE OF f THE EARTH GOT THEIR OWN COURTS TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.CON- DEMN THEIR OWN PEOPLE OR PRAISE THEM EXCEPT THESE OVER HERE. _THAT'S NOT NATURAL.EVERY OTHER...BLAcK NATION CAN sAY,NIGERIAN 'JH:0H,NO.I HOPE IT'S NQT_THAT. A DT;NAH.BARBACUE‘BEEF.(LAUGHTER) OR AMERICAN OR...wHATEvER COUNTRY OR UNINTELLIGIBLE IN AMERICA. THESE FOLKS ARE TALKING ABOUT THEY AFRO-AMERICANS BUT...THAT Is NOT PROPER.IF THEY SAID~THEY WAS AFRICAN AMERICANs..IT wOULD BE BETTER BUT AFRO DON'T MEAN NOTHING.AIN'T NO SUCH PLACE-AS AFRO. I MEAN...THEY GOT IT RIGHT OVER THERE wITH THE NEGRO AND THE . AFRO.THEY GOT.THAT RO ON‘THERE.NOW§THEY SAY'AFRO.NEGRO.SAME . THING.AFRO...LETs sEE...wHAT IS THE NUMBER THERE.FIvE AND FIVE IS ONE AND ONE Is SEVEN AND EIGHT.AND ONE AND FIVE...‘ , , . ,. (PETER-HINDS RETURNS WITH DANNY THOMPSON wITH SUN RAfs LUNCH.) PETER HINDS:HERE WE GO.WE STOPPED AND GOT SOME RIBS.HERE.A COUPLE ORDERS.ONE FOR DANNY... L — I I ‘ . * sR:RIBs§wHAT KIND OF RIBs?FORK RIBS? PH:I DON'TAKNOW.' A JH:THEY SMELL GOOD. SR;PORK GIVES GAS ON HY STOMACH. / BREDANNY xnows THE ANswER.UNINTELLIGIBLE.(DANNY THOMPSON ENTERS THE ROOM)YOU GOT sOME PORK R1BS,DANNY? A A ‘W J DANNY THOMPSONIYEAH. SUN ' \ I sR:YEAH,wELL,I GOT SOME WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT...THERE'S A NUM-." BER I WROTE ABOUT UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT'S VERY;IT'S ABOUT AN ARTIST, 7cOLONY IN FRANCE.IT'S‘BEAUTIFUL.AND I GOT ONE ABOUT sAN FRANCISCO}. I CALLED CITY IN THE cLOUDs.I wROTE... I ,X A A JH:I HEARD THAT ONCE.ONE TIME." PH:THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.ONE TIME IN '71 YOU PLAYED THAT.(AT THE FAMILY DOG AT OCEAN BEACH IN SAN‘FRANCISCO.APRIL OR MAY) SR:NOW,ALL THAT TIME I GOT ALL THIS AND NOBODY TO OFFER IT(TO). YOU HAVE A CASE WHERE A LOT OF BLACK MUSICIANS...THEY DOING WRONG THINGS.THEY JUST.THINK ABOUT MONEY ALL THE TIME AND THEY GOT A LOT OF TALENT BUT THEY DON'T APPRECIATE ABOUT UNINTELLIGIBLE. ‘\ .\\x «w . . m.\.\.«\»§..\ww. mx _ ........................................... -&-__-_--___;_--______\ I - SR:I'M A BIG TEST FOR AMERICA,YoU KNow.' JH:THAT'S FOR SURE; .SR:I'M VERY DANGEROUS FOR AMERICA.IF THEY'DON'T DO ME RIGHT THE CREATOR GOING TO-SEND ME UNINTELLIGIBLE TO SOME OTHER COUNTRY.I CAN SEEvIT.AND I CAN\GIVE THEM WHAT I HAVE DEVELOPED.IT'S HIS NEXT MOVE.HE GIVING AMERICA A CHANCE TO BRANCH OUT AND TO MOVE f OUT BEYOND EVERYTHING EVERY QTHER NATIoN(HAS)EvER KNowN;THEY CAN ,MOVE oN 0UT.OUTSTRIP RUSSIA.OUTSTRIP EVERYBODY.IT'S FANTASTIC I WHAT THEY CAN DO.;.IF THEY LISTEN.THAT'S WHAT A FRIEND OF MINE A TOLD THE voICE OF AMERICA(wILLIS CoNovER5.IE AMERICA BACKS THIS MUSIC UNINTELLIGIBLE.WHOEVER GETS THIS.MUSIC‘IS GOING TO CONTROL THE WORLD.TOLD THE VOICE OF AMERICA.HE SAID,'WELL,I CAN GIVE THE ‘ BAND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.'I SAID,'NO;WHAT WE WANT IS A CULTU~ RAL HOUSE SET IN EVERY STATE,AT LEAST EACH ONE OF THEM COST A MILLION DOLLARS,SO THAT THIS BAND CAN GO TO EACH STATE AND PLAY '» FOR PEOPLE.'SO...HE COULDN'T CONCEIVE OF THAT. KJH:BOY,THAT'S SHORT SIDED OF THEM.I MEAN,WHAT'S A MILLION DOLLARS ‘ L HERE AND THERE TO THOSE FOLKS IN A BUDGET? I V , SR:THAT'S RIGHT.IN EACH STATE I CAN G0 THERE AND PLAY.PEOPLE IN ’THAT STATE CAN-CoME TO THAT oNE PLACE.IN A CULTURAL HOUSE.WE. .WOULDN‘T HAVE To BE THERE ALL THE TIME BUT SOMEBODY WOULD BE THERE ALL THE TIME CREATING MUSIC IN EACH STATE.THAT'S NoT TOO MUCH To ASK.‘ I ' ' “ ‘A . JH:NO,IT ISN'T,‘ IT‘ I «E '. I, ' . , % K ‘ , * SR:SO THEY WERE OFFERED THAT AT LEAST TEN YEARS AGO oR MORE. voICE or AMERICA,CARNAGIE-HALL.HE wAs THERE.HE EVEN SAYS_SO oN' "MY POSTER.UNINTELLIGIBLE.DIDN'T MANY WHITE PEOPLE SHOW/UP AND VERY FEW BLACK FOLKS.IT HAPPENED WHEN REVEREND KING.WELL.UNFOR- TUNATELY,IT\WAS,LIKE{EASTER WEEKEND OR SOMETHING THAT REVEREND KING GOT KILLED.EVERYBODY(WAS)EXCITED OVER THAT.SO WE PLAYED TWO" NIGHTS AT CARNAGIE HALL.THE WIFE OF THE VOICE OF AMERICA WONDERED WHY PEOPLE COULDN'T HEAR THIS BAND.SHE PARTICULARLY WAS WORRIED. ABOUT WHAT DID BLACK FOLKS THINK OF ME?WHY DIDN'T THEY SUPPORT ME?SHE_WENT UP IN HARLEM,STOOD ON:THE STREET CORNER,PASSED OUT HAND BILLS.THAT'S RIGHT.THEY WAS TRYING.BLACK FOLKS DIDN'T SHOW UP.WORRIED ABOUT REVEREND KING.SO WE PLAYED A WONDERFUL CONCERT. DON'T HAVE NO RECORDS OF IT.THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT RECORDED A IT.THEY WOULDN'T LET US RECORD IT.WE-COULD'VE RECORDED BUT THE STAGEHANDS AROUND THE STAGE TOOK ALL OF THE_RECORDERS.WE HAD \ABOUT FOUR BASS ELUTES.IT WAS A FANTASTIC CONCERT. I ‘ I JH:BASS ELUTES.EoUR or THEM. SR{THAT'S RIGHT.SOMETHING LIKE THAT.ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS THAT I _ ‘WE RENTED.FABULOUS CONCERT.NO RECORD OF,IT.STAGEHANDS...FOR EVERYTHING.IF YOU PUT UP A RECORDER,THEY GOT TO PUT IT UP;YOU CAN'T BRING INSTRUMENTS IN.YOU CAN'T TAKE THEM.THE STAGEHANDS... JH:ALL THIS UNION JIVE. A SR:THEY HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING.WE COULDN'T BELIEVE IT. PH:BELIEVE IT. JH:YEAH.REGULATIONS. SR:THEY CAME UP AND TOOK THE RECORDERS.YOU COULDN'T SEE THEM(THE RECORDERS),REALLY.THEY CAME ON THE STAGE WITH THE PERFORMERS. JH:AND JUST TOOK IT ALL DOWN? SR:SO WE BEEN THROUGH SOME REMARKABLE INCIDENTS....STILL STANDING.BUT,KNOWING THE CREATOR...HE NOT GOING TO DO THAT TOO MUCH LONGER.IN MEXICO,EVERY SUNDAY THEY HAVE.MUSICIANS FROM DIFFERNT PARTS OF MEXICO,DIFFERENT TRIBES BE ON THAT PROGRAM ALL DAY LONG.THIS WAY PEOPLE GET A CHANCE TO HEAR WHAT MUSICIANS ARE DOING.WE NEED A STATION LIKE THAT IN AMERICA WHERE THERE BE MUSIC-MUSICIANS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY PLAYING.WE DON'T HAVE IT.COUNTRY MUSIC.THAT SELLS. JH:YEAH.IT WOULD JUST BE NICE IF YOU HAD THE FACILITIES FOR ALL THESE NEW INSTRUMENTS THAT COME OUT.I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOU BE ABLE TO PLAY THOSE,YOU KNOW.SYNCLAVIER,ALL THESE COMPUTER INSTRUMENTS THAT YOU CAN REPRODUCE...INSTRUMENTS.YOU KNOW,LIKE...EVERYTHING. ORCHESTRA BELLS TO SAXOPHONES TO PUT IN YOUR OWN SOUNDS.YOU CAN TALK INTO IT AND PLAY YOUR VOICE BACK. SR:I GOT THAT.I PLAYED ON A SUPREME INSTRUMENT,ONE HUNDRED THOU- SAND DOLLARS,IN ATLANTA.IT'S NOT ON THE MARKET.I JUST DIDN'T RE- LEASE IT. JH:YOU GOT A TAPE OF THAT? SR:(INDICATES YES) JH:GREAT,GREAT.AT LEAST IT'S THERE. SR:GOT DRUMS,BASS,EVERYTHING. JH:ON THAT INSTRUMENT? SR:WELL,THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT...THEY SAID THEY MADE IT FOR RICH PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES.PEOPLE WHO REALLY DIDN'T KNOW MUCH MUSIC BUT THEY COULD PLAY IT THERE.AND THAT'S WHAT THAT INSTRUMENT WAS. BUT THEY HAVEN'T PUT IT OUT ON THE MARKET.WELL,THEY MIGHT HAVE BUT IT'S FOR RICH PEOPLE.THEY SAID THAT'S WHAT IT UNINTELLIGIBLE. 10 UNINTELLIGIBLE A POOR PERSON.A MUSICIAN COULDN'T AFFORD TO PAY 1 ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR AN INSTRUMENT. JH:THAT'S FOR SURE. SR:I PLAYED ON THAT...IN MILANO. JH:THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HEAR WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY IF IT WAS AT YOUR FINGERTIPS. SR:I GOT IT.IN FACT I GOT SOME FILM.I WAS DRIVING A STREETCAR IN ATLANTA...IN THIS FILM...HAD MY NAME ON THE FRONT OF THE STREETCAR WHEN I WAS DRIVING.I HAVE THE FILM.GOT ALL KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU'D BE AMAZED...GOT ME WALKING ON THE STREETS... V PYRAMID.EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT GAVE ME PERMISSION.THEY NEVER HAVE 5 DONE IT BEFORE NOR SINCE.THEY ONLY LET YOU APPROACH THE SPHINX. I YOU CAN STAND THERE AND LOOK AT IT.YOU DON'T GO OVER THERE UNIN- TELLIGIBLE.UNINTELLIGIBLE START WALKING ON IT.SITTING ON IT. THERE WAS SOME GERMAN THERE(HARTMUT GEERKEN).THEY WOULDN'T EVEN LET HIM TAKE MOVIES OF US. JH:AND YOU WENT IN THE GREAT PYRAMID.DIDN'T YOU DO THAT,TOO? SR:DID THAT,TOO.GOT...GOT MOVIES OF IT. JH:YOU HAVE MOVIES...DID YOU STAY IN THERE FOR A WHILE? SR:I STAYED IN THERE ABOUT AN HOUR.'CAUSE ALL THE LIGHTS WENT OUT.WHEN I SAID MY NAME NINE TIMES ALL THE LIGHTS WENT OUT SO YOU COULDN'T COME IN IT.WAITING FOR THE LIGHTS TO COME BACK ON.WE HAD A GUIDE WITH US. JH:THAT MUST HAVE BEEN SOMETHING. SR:IT wAS.I SAID RA NINE TIMES.I SAID THIS UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR RA. THAT NAME HASN'T BEEN SAID IN A LONG TIME.LET'S STAY AND SEE wHAT HAPPENS.OUT wENT THE LIGHTS.UNINTELLIGIBLE.RA MEANS DARKNESS IN SOME KIND OP wAY.THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.DARKNESS.IT FITS.'CAUSE IN ITALY TODAY BLACK IS SAID,LIKE,NERA.IT'S N-E-R-A.NOT NEGRO. FIRST DAY(IN ITALY)...SEE THE BLAcK,SEE NERA UP THERE.MEANS BLAcK.NERO,TOO.HE'S BLAcK....HE wAS ROMAN.THE ROMAN LANGUAGE... IT PITs,YOU KNOw.PRENcH(g9RD POR)BLAcK IS SOMETHING LIKE Nj9—I-R. BUT IT'S LIKE THE BIBLE SAID...IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND UNINTELLIGIBLE.AND THIS SPIRIT OF GOD MOvED : UPON THE PAGE OF THE wATERS AND DARKNESS MOVED UPON THE FACE OF I THE...IT'S THE SAME THING.IT'S TELLING YOU THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS DARKNESS...AND NOT LIGHT.SATAN Is ALWAYS ASSOCIATED wITH LIGHT. GOD'S ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH DARKNESS.THEY SAY GOD DwELLS IN THICK DARKNESS.UNINTELLIGIBLE.(SUN RA IS STILL EATING HIS RIBS. HE SHOULD BE PINISHED SOON.)SO.SATAN REPRESENTS LIGHT.UNINTEL- LIGIBLE SATAN UNINTELLIGIBLE FALL FROM HEAvEN.SATAN IS THE ANGEL OF DEATH.AND PEOPLE WHO DAY SAY THEY BE FOLLOWING HIS LIGHT. .~ .« 11 UNINTELLIGIBLE FOLLOW THAT LIGHT AND YOU'LL BE OVER IN THE‘ KINGDOM OF DEATH.THAT'S SATAN.HE'S THE ANGEL OF DEATH.I FOUND THAT THE WORD ISRAEL MEANS SOMETHING LIKE DEATH.IT WOULD HAVE TO. THE WORD ISRAEL MEANS SOMETHING LIKE MESSAGERS OF DEATH OR SOME- THING LIKE THAT.I GOT THE BOOK.BUT IT SAYS ISRAEL MEANS ANGEL OF DEATH.SO...THE WORLD GOT TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THESE WORDS... UNINTELLIGIBLE THE BOOK AND SEE WHAT ISRAEL IS.THEY GOT THE NAME OF GOD.THEY GOT TO GET BUSY QUICK'CAUSE IT'S DANGEROUS.THEY GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT...THEY GOT GOD SAYING I...I AM IN THE MIDST OF ISRAEL...(TAPE RUNS OUT)... TO BE CONTINUED IN ISSUE EIGHTEEN OF SUN RA RESEARCH. 12 v<-us»... -.... ,. FROM THE PROFILES OF INTERNATIONAL DRUMMERS , PERCUSSIONI STS AND MUSICIANS MAGAZINE . . . PAI STE CYMBALS AND GONGS COMPANY . . . 1975 . I was born in Rockaway Beach, N.Y. When I was very young, I met Lee Morgan, Bobby Timmons, Spanky Peberest, Henry Grimes, Eddie Mathias, Jimy Bond, .and many others. We used to get together and play ses- sions, gigs before everyone became famous. It was Jimmy Bond who got me into my first professional gig, with the Chet Baker band. My second gig was with Lester Young, after that I was with Gary Crosby's sol- dier show. In 1963, while in Paris, I got a chance to play with Bud Powell; that led to play- ing with Lou Benett, the or- ganist and with Stuart Da- Silva, the pianist. At present I'm a member of the "SUN RA ARKESTRA"; on the side I also play with the "Jim Johnson Unit". I am attending the Granoff School of Music, to further my musical knowledge. I would very much like to write and arrange. DISCOGRAPHY: -IT'S AFTER THE END OF THE WORLD, LIVE AT THE DONAU- ESCHINGEN & BERLIN FESTIVALS Sun Ra & his Intergalactic Research Arkestra (MP5) -THE SOLAR - MYTH APPROACH, VOL. 1 & 2 Sun Ra & his Arkestra (BYG) -ANN ARBOR BLUES & JAZZ FESTIVAL '72 Sun Ra & his Solar-Myth Arkestra (Atlantic) -MILESTONE TWOFERS Yusef Lateef Quintet (Bellaphon) -NIGHTS OF BALLADS & BLUES McCoy Tyner Trio (Impulse) -JAZZ 'ROUND THE WORLD Yusef Lateef Quintet (Impulse) Humphries Ill. -WHILE WE'RE YOUNG Wes Montgomery (Milestone) -THE MANY FACES OF YUSEF LATEEF Yusef Lateef (Milestone) -PREZ IN EUROPE Lester Young Quartet (Onyx) ‘BLUES FOR THE ORIENT Yusef Lateef Quartet (Prestige) -JUNIOR Junior Mance Trio (Verve) -SPACE IS THE PLACE Sun Ra Arkestra (Blue Thumb) -FUEGO ' Donald Byrd (Blue Note) -BYRD IN FLIGHT Donald Byrd (Blue Note) -DONALD BYRD AT THE HALF NOTE CAFE, VOL. 1 a 2 (Blue Note) -A NEW PERSPECTIVE Donald Byrd (Blue Note) CYMBALSET: A 14“ Heavy H-H, F0 602 B 18" Crash, 2002 C 20" Medium Ride, F0 602 EXTRAS: 20" Ride, 2002 JOHN GILMORE . . . NOVEMBER 1978 ZELLERBACH AUDITORIUM BERKELEY , CALI FORNIA . MORE THOUGHTS FROM VARIOUS MUSICIANS REGARDING SUN RA . . . . . . . . . .. FOURTH IN AN ONGOING SERIES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. BILL BERRY...TRUMPET...VIBRAPHONE,,.COMPOSER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH LEONARD FEATHER... SUN RA ARKESTRA...THE HOUSE OF ETERNAL BEING(LIVE AT MONTREUX- INNER CITY) WAS THAT RECORDED NEAR A ZOO UNTILL THE TAPE BROKE DOWN?I HEARD THE ELEPHANTS ESCAPING.I WON'T GIVE IT A MINUS RATING,SO I WON'T RATE IT AT ALL. I'D BE CURIOUS HOW YOU'D COPYRIGHT SOMETHING LIKE THAT,BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MELODY.IT WAS OBVIOUSLY IMPROVISED,BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS JAZZ MUSIC BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE THE FEELING THAT DIFFE- RENTIATES JAZZ FROM OTHER MUSIC-IN FACT,I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE THAT IT WAS MUSIC AT ALL.TO ME THAT'S EXHIBITIONISM AT ITS VERY WORST.THE SAXOPHONE PLAYER IS PROBABLY A POLL WINNER,BUT SOUNDED LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD KIDS USED TO WHEN THEY WERE BEGINNING. I DON'T MEAN TO BE OVERLY HARD ON IT,BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S MUSIC}IT JUST SOUNDED LIKE NOISE,SOUND EFFECTS.I HEARD THE AUD- IENCE REACTION,THEY MUST HAVE LIKED IT.MAYBE THERE WAS SOMETHING VISUAL GOING ON.BUT TO GET UP AND JUST MAKE SOUNDS,WHERE ANYTHING GOES,I DON'T THINK THAT COULD BE DEFINED AS MUSIC. MAYBE IF YOU WERE THERE,IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT,BUT FROM THE RE- CORDING,IT SOUNDED LIKE PEOPLE FOOLING AROUND ON INSTRUMENTS NOT NECESSARILY THEIR OWN.AT FIRST I THOUGHT THE TRUMPET PLAYER HAD SOME PRETTY GOOD CHOPS-WELL,HE DID HAVE—I JUST DIDN'T LIKE IT. DOWN BEAT...NOVEMBER 1980.PAGE 49 JAKI BYARD...PIANIST...COMPOSER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH FRED BOUCHARD... SUN RA ARKESTRA...GOD OF THE THUNDER REALM(LIVE AT MONTREAUX— INNER CITY) IT'S EITHER SUN RA OR CECIL TAYLOR;PLAY THAT PERCUSSION THING AGAIN.OR SUNNY MURRAY.THAT'S SUN RA ON ORGAN AND JOHN GILMORE ON TENOR.IT'S AN EXPRESSION OF ENERGETIC FORCE.IT REACHES A PEAK OF REAL INTENSITY,AND IT'S GOOD.BUT USUALLY THEY STOP,AND START AGAIN TO TRY TO REACH THAT PEAK.THEY CAN HIT IT TWO OR THREE TIMES,BUT THEN IT LOSES ITS MUSICAL MEANING,IT DOESN'T HAVE EMO- TIONAL IMPACT. DOWN BEAT...MAY 1981.PAGE 45 TOSHIKO AKIYOSHI...PIANIST...COMPOSER...BANDLEADER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH LEONARD FEATHER... SUN RA ARKESTRA...QUEER NOTIONS(SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS- HAT HUT) YOU SAID THREE MINUTES.IS IT REALLY THREE MINUTES?SOUNDED LONGER THAN THAT.I THINK IT'S A PUT ON.IF IT'S NOT-WHICH I REALLY,SIN- CERELY DOUBT-WHAT CAN I SAY?I DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT KIND OF SENSE OF HUMOR.I THINK IN ORDER TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT,THE PERSON COME UP WITH THAT KIND OF IDEA,IT HAS TO BE REALLY,REALLY ABOVE EVERYBODY.AND SINCE IT'S NOT,IT'S GOT TO BE A JOKE. IF IT'S NOT A PUT ON,I DON'T EVEN GIVE ANY STARS.I CAN'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY DOING THIS SERIOUSLY.IF IT IS SERIOUS,I JUST CAN'T COMPREHEND THAT KIND OF MUSICAL AT- TITUDE. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE A LITTLE SHORT SOLO POPPED UP;THE ALTO PLAYER,TO ME,SOUNDED LIKE AN AMATEUR.BUT THERE'S A LOT OF MOD- ERN YOUNG PLAYERS THAT SOUND LIKE THAT TODAY. DOWN BEAT...NOVEMBER l982.PAGE49 (THE FEBRUARY 1983 EDITION CARRIED A LETTER FROM MIKE STEPHENS FROM LOS ANGELES COMMENTING ON TOSHIKO AKIYOSHI'S COMMENTS RE RA. "...AND MS.AKIYOSHI'S"CRITICISM"OF THE SUN RA HAT HUT RECORDING IS MORE OF A JOKE THAN THE RECORD ITSELF COULD EVER BE.TOSHIKO WOULD DO WELL TO TONE DOWN HER CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE TOWARD OTHER ARTISTS AND BRUSH UP ON HER OWN LISTENING SKILLS AND MUS-‘ ICIANSHIP.WINNING MUSIC POLLS DOES NOT AN EXPERT MAKE." BYARD LANCASTER...SAXOPHONIST... SUN RA HAS AN IMPACT ON THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE.ROCK,CLASSICAL,MOVIE MUSIC,JAZZ,AVANTE-GARDE AND DISCO.HE IS THE GODFATHER OF OUR TRIBE.OUR CITY HAS BECOME MORE AWARE OF UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE.WHAT A GREAT,GREAT TEACHER.HIS LIFESTYLE,BAND,PHILOSOPHY AND BROTHER- HOOD HAVE BECOME AS IMPORTANT TO US AS GANDI TO HIS PEOPLE.THE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE SEEN HIM ON LOCAL TV,NATIONAL TV,IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM,ON THE STREETS AND HAVE HEARD HIM RAP AT HIS HOME,IN THE PARKS,AND ON THE RADIO.WE HAVE BEEN CHANGED BECAUSE OF HIM.THANK YOU,FATHER.SUNNY IS DEDICATED TO THE SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH.MAY GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS HIM.THE REPUTATION OF SUN RA GIVES LIGHT TO THOSE OF US LOCKED UP AND NATURAL ENERGY TO HIS STUDENTS SUCH AS MYSELF.I HAVE PLAYED WITH HIS ARKESTRA,LISTENED TO HIM TALK FOR HOURS,AND WATCHED HOW HE GIVES TO OUR COMMUNITY.A MESSENGER OF GOD ALLAH. A CODA...FEBRUARY 1984.PAGE 4. ‘ON! .3 .o‘.. 4 '9' '. ‘S O 4 I CITIZENSHIP. woRLD NEws. THAT'S ALL I HAVE To Do. A LEAVE HERE, <AT<H A PLANE, A AND GO TO RUSSIA, AND TELL THEM I WANT TO CHANGE MY EMBARRASS AMERICA AND I HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER TH EM AND TH EY’D TAKE CARE or ME BE<AusE THEYGOT THIS % SYSTEM wHERE TH EY Do HAVE AcuLTuRE DEPARTMENT THAT TAKE <ARE or Mus|<|ANs. AND I'M coma To HAVE NoTH|Nc. TO WORRY ABOUT. I'D HAVE AN ARKESTRA THERE AND ALL or THEM DED|<ATED To Music. suN RA IT wouLD BE A IT wouLD
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-17
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 18 (August, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-08-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: '3" I '\L‘\‘ 7 [I417 V / K 1 ’ \ .2 r . \ ‘ _ ,, ~ _, K / K _ ‘ ( y \ . / . . , , E‘ - . _ - J ' \ V r ‘ . . , . ~ _ ‘_ _ \ U ~ , L - ‘ \ ~ _ Y. \ A A . .. V ‘ \ / _. ~ I v \ . . ~ :_ ’ y _ ‘ ' ~ , . , r , x 4 ‘ V; \ ‘ ,: r l 7' ’ 1 ’. J \ * . I \v\ / _ *' A V Vrr . > _ V / , » r ‘ V 1 L I, . , . « , ‘ \‘ / .’ _ . , ,> . - ,\ ’ ‘ \ . L \ I V sun RA IiE¢sEAn¢H PUBLISHED av omm rnEss -9.0. §O'X‘.7;B'6~..‘M,|L'I§F.R.‘E:. 94030 @ 1998 oMNi PRESS. EDITED av PETER HINDS. SINGLE cow: $4.oo;OVE'|§5‘E;A*S'; §ilﬁr.‘tE cow $5.00. 1 x 4 K CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS... . . . . . . . .... PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL...BERKELEY,CALIFORNIA..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 20,l984............ . . . . ... . . . . . . ........ SUN RA:THE BIBLE GOT GOD SAYING I HAVE TO KILL MY PEOPLE.I HAVE TO DRUG MY PEOPLE AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE AS BIG...EVERYBODY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.SO THEN THEY HAV...
Show more'3" I '\L‘\‘ 7 [I417 V / K 1 ’ \ .2 r . \ ‘ _ ,, ~ _, K / K _ ‘ ( y \ . / . . , , E‘ - . _ - J ' \ V r ‘ . . , . ~ _ ‘_ _ \ U ~ , L - ‘ \ ~ _ Y. \ A A . .. V ‘ \ / _. ~ I v \ . . ~ :_ ’ y _ ‘ ' ~ , . , r , x 4 ‘ V; \ ‘ ,: r l 7' ’ 1 ’. J \ * . I \v\ / _ *' A V Vrr . > _ V / , » r ‘ V 1 L I, . , . « , ‘ \‘ / .’ _ . , ,> . - ,\ ’ ‘ \ . L \ I V sun RA IiE¢sEAn¢H PUBLISHED av omm rnEss -9.0. §O'X‘.7;B'6~..‘M,|L'I§F.R.‘E:. 94030 @ 1998 oMNi PRESS. EDITED av PETER HINDS. SINGLE cow: $4.oo;OVE'|§5‘E;A*S'; §ilﬁr.‘tE cow $5.00. 1 x 4 K CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS... . . . . . . . .... PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL...BERKELEY,CALIFORNIA..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 20,l984............ . . . . ... . . . . . . ........ SUN RA:THE BIBLE GOT GOD SAYING I HAVE TO KILL MY PEOPLE.I HAVE TO DRUG MY PEOPLE AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE AS BIG...EVERYBODY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.SO THEN THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND KILL SOME- BODY.THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND DRUG SOMEBODY...THEY SAY I'M A JEALOUS GOD,THEY HAVE TO BE.JEALOUS TO EACH OTHER.THAT'S AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD.BUT SINCE THEY DON'T READ THE BOOK...THEY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD AND YET THE BOOK IS SAYING IF YOU TRY TO BE LIKE GOD YOU'LL BE KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN....AND THEY STILL WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.THEY GET CONSTANTLY KICKED OUT BECAUSE THAT IS THE FOR- BIDDEN FACTOR:TRYING TO BE LIKE GOD. P JOHN HIND§:SO HOW SHOULD THEY BE LIKE?NOT BE RIGHTEOUS? SR:WELL.THE BIBLE SAY NOBODY RIGHTEOUS.THAT NONE IS RIGHTEOUS... A BLACK PERSON...I MEAN,THE ONLY PEOLPE THAT GOT THE RIGHT TO CALL THEMSELVES BLACK ARE THE EGYPTIANS.'CAUSE THEY THE CHILDREN OF HAM AND HAM IS BLACK.WELL.YOU GOT SOME MORE BLACK FOLKS WITH STRAIGHT HAIR WHO IS A DIFFERENT...ORDER,YOU MIGHT SAY.LIKE INDIA.THEY GOT STRAIGHT HAIR.ONLY ONE MAN GOT NAPPY HAIR.THEY SET APART FROM THE OTHER NATIONS.THEIR HAIR BETRAYED THEM.THEY CAN'T HIDE(IT),YOU KNOW.ALL OF THEM BE STRAIGHTENING THEIR HAIR AND ALL THEY STILL GOT THAT NAPPY HAIR.SO.THEY BEEN PICKED OUT AS DIFFERENT.SO THEY CAN'T BE EQUAL TO WHITE PEOPLE WITH THAT NAPPYV HAIR.THEY HAVE THE SAME KIND OF HAIR.(CHUCKLES)THEY TRY, BUT NATURE KNOWS WHO THEY ARE.STRAIGHTEN IT IF THEY WANT.NATURE KNOWS.THAT'S THE PROBLEM:THEY HAVE TO STOP TRYING TO BE LIKE GOD. JH:AND TO BE NATURAL? SR:WELL,CHRIST DID THE WILL OF GOD.HE SHOWED HIM WHAT HE WAS. HE WENT OUT THERE AND DIED.SO;THE WILL OF GOD IS THAT YOU SHOULD DIE;..THE FATHER'S WILL.IT COMES IN ALL KIND OF FORMS.WE GOT A TRUMPET PLAYER.PLAYS AROUND HERE,HE'S GOING TO HELP ME.HIS NAME IS FRED.HE WAS SITTING IN THE ROOM ONE DAY AND HIS FATHER SAID SOMETHING LIKE,YOU OUGHT TO BE DEAD.HE DIDN'T PAY NO ATTENTION TO HIM.THE FATHER CAME OUT THERE WITH AN AXE OR SOMETHING AND HE SAID,'YOU AIN'T DEAD YET?DIE!GO ON AND DIE!'THE FATHER'S WILL. SHE WAS GETTING MARRIED SO HE HAD TO TAKE HIS FATHER AND TAKE HIM TO A MENTAL HOME.BUT HE SAID AS FAR AS I UNINTELLIGIBLE HE SAY HE NEVER...HE AIN'T GOING TO SLEEP BEHIND...LOCK HIS DOOR.HE'LL NEVER TRUST HIM AGAIN.HE SUBSEQUENTLY MOVED NEAR US.HE WAS STAY- ING AROUND THE CORNER FROM WHERE I WAS AT;HE SAY HE HAD TO LET .HIS FATHER OUTwOF THERE.FATHER SAID,'YOU AIN'T DEAD YET?!" ‘(LAUGHS)FRED GOT IN THE WIND.YOU KNOW,YOU GOT A LOT OF THINGS.I BEEN TALKING TO SOME UNINTELLIGIBLE THAT ARE INCREDIBLE.I TOLD A FELLOW ONCE ABOUT THE DANGER OF LITTLE CHILDREN AND SOME...HE SAID.'I GOT A SON.DON'T TALK LIKE THAT.ABOUT CHILDREN.'UNINTEL- LIGIBLE WE CAN'T TRUST THEM.I SAID,'WELL,YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ‘ARE NO WAY.THEY MIGHT BE YOURS.THEY BORN HERE...BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE UNTILL THEY GET OLDER OR SOMETHING.'MAYBE WHILE THEY'RE STILL YOUNG THEY MIGHT EXHIBIT SOME TRAITS THAT WILL PROVE THEY MAY NOT BE YOUR FANS UNINTELLIGIBLE CHILDREN. IT DON'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.HE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THAT.A WEEK LATER HE CAME TO ME,(HE SAID),'I HAVE TO SAY YOU'RE RIGHT.'HIS SON WAS ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS OLD.JUST COULD CRAWL.HE SAY HE WOKE UP AND HIS SON HAD THE BUTCHER KNIFE ACROSS HIS NECK.AND HE SAID THE BUTCHER KNIFE WAS TURNED THE WRONG WAY...HE SAY HE WASN'T GOING TO NEVER,NEVER SLEEP WITHOUT THE DOOR BEING LOCKED WITH THE UNINTELLIGIBLE ON THE OTHER SIDE. JH : THAT ifs A HEAVY . SR:OF COURSE IT IS.BUT HE.SAY HE HATED TO TELL ME ABOUT IT.THAT .I WAS RIGHT. JH:WOULDN'T THAT BE;A RUDE AWAKENING. SR:CUT IN NECK BY THE LITTLE SON.SO WHAT HAPPENED?DID SOMETHING ELSE HAVE CONTROL OF HIS SON?HAD TO...SO A PERSON COULD BE AT .HOME,ALL COMPLACENT,FORCES COME RIGHT IN THERE THROUGH DOGS, CATS.IN THIS DAY AND AGE IT'S NO TELLING.THESE SPIRITS...IN FACT,I-SAW UNINTELLIGIBLE SAY THAT A LOT OF ANIMALS WERE ATTACK- ING PEOPLE.AGAIN,WHEN IT HAPPENS ABOUT DEMONS THROUGH(ANIMALS) ATTACK PEOPLE.I DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE.I READ THE HEADLINES.I BELIEVE IT.I HAD TO GET RID OF THE DOG RIGHT HERE. ' JH:OH,REALLY?YOU HAD A LITTLE DOG?R SR:IT WOULD BE AT THE HOUSE UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT GOT VERY MAD'CAUSE SHE HAD TO STAY OUTSIDE.SHE WANTED TO STAY IN THE HOUSE WITH US. SHE STARTED TO ACTING FUNNY.BIT A HOLE IN THE DOOR.THE BACK DOOR. AND YOU'D COME UP THE STEPS TO THE KITCHEN,THERE'S A DOOR THERE, SHE BIT A HOLE IN THAT.ACTUALLY,YOU KNOW IT WAS UNINTELLIGIBLE. SHE CHEWED AND CHEWED...WE NOT AT THE HOUSE.WE COME UP THERE AND SHE IN THE...LIVING ROOM.UNINTELLIGIBLE SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS HU- MAN.SO I GOT RID OF HER.IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE MUSIC,REALLY RAISE HERACONSCIOUSNESS. JH:MAYBE so. SR:SHE MIGHT HAVE LISTENED TO THE MUSIC. JH:DOGS ALWAYS wANT To BE AROUND HUMANS.ANYWAY.THEY JUST LovE ' 0 o SR:SO I SAID,'SHE GOT TO GO.‘ JH:YEAH,THEY CAN'T ALL JUST RUN AROUND ALL.OVER THE PLACE.THEY HAVE To REALIZE(THEY)GOT A PRETTY GOOD DEAL IN THE BACK YARD IN A LITTLE EoUsE. ‘ ‘ ISR:WE GAVE HER TO A WOMAN UP THE STREET.SHE'S PERFECTLY AWARE THAT SHE DID WRONG.EVERYTIME SHE SEE ONE OF US SHE PUT HER TAIL BETWEEN HER LEGS..,INTELLIGENT. JH:BUT DOGS...THEY'RE NIcE.THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL THINGS,I THINK.I REALLY ENJOY MY DOGS. A SR:YEAH.NICE DOG.SOMEBODY po1soNED IT...DANNY(THOMPSON)WAS so ‘PROUD OF THAT DOG.I SAY,'DANNY...',IT LOOK LIKE A BELGIUM SHEP- HERD;DANNY WAS SO PROUD.I SAID,'DANNY,YOU KNOW YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT.FORCES GET JEALOUS.YOU KNOW.’ 7 . JR:1MAc1NE:TEAT.po1soN1Nc A Doc. SR:SOMEBODY POISONED IT.TOOK HIM TO THE VETERINARIAN.THEY TOOK HIM AND I CAME THERE;..AND THE POISON...IN SOME KIND OF«WAY HE ISTILL LIVED.THROUGH ALL THAT,ONE DAY I TOLD DANNY,'YOU KNOW,HE'S STILL SUFFERING.SO HE'S TRYING TO STAY ALIVE(TO)PROTECT ME.I CAN'T REALLY HAVE HIM SUFFERING LIKE THAT.I KNOW HE IS,SO,..TO- NIGHT.TAKE HIM AND PUT HIM OUT IN THE TRUCK.'SO HE PUT HIM OUT IN THE TRUCK..;HE DIED STANDING UP.HE REFUSED TO LAY DOWN.DIED STANDING UP.AND MARSHALL'S DOG,HEfS STILL UNINTELLIGIBLE HISS DEATH.AND WE HAD A TRUCK,STATION WAGON AND A CAR.ALL THE BATTER-_ IES WENT DEAD.ALL OF THEM UNINTELLIGIBLE.YOU SEE.IT'S SOMETHING TO THAT.IF THE BATTERIES WENT OUT.NOW,WHY DID THE BATTERIES GO_ ' OUT?HE WAS STANDING UP.FROZEN IN DEATH.WOULDN'T LAY DWN-. JH:WOULDN'T GIVE IN To THAT. SR:THAT WAS A MEAN DOG.BUT HE LOVED US. SUN RA:THIS(UNITED STATES)IS A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM.IT WAS SET UP BY MEN WHO KNEW THINGS.BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND ALL THEM PEOPLE KNEW THINGS AND THEY SET IT UP ON A SPIRITUAL LEVEL BASED ON EGYPT.A BLACK MAN DESIGNED WASHINGTON DC.THE WHITE HOUSE UNIN- TELLIGIBLE.LYNDON BANNEKKER.(BENJAMIN BANNEKER WAS ONE OF THE TWO AMERICAN ENGINEERS WHO WORKED WITH THE FRENCH ENGINEER, PIERRE CHARLES L'ENFANT IN PLANNING THE LAYOUT OF WASHINGTON DC.) HE SET IT UP SOMETHING LIKE,ALMOST LIKE A PARALLEL TO EGYPT... UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT WAS A PLACE THERE WHERE WE PLAYED WHERE THEY USED TO KEEP HORSES AND PEOPLE.THE SLAVES OR WHATEVER THEY WAS STAYED UPSTAIRS UNINTELLIGIBLE.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF IT. WE PLAYED THERE.WE PLAYING AGAIN IN WASHINGTON THIS MONTH.THE TWENTY EIGHTH.AT DC SPACE.THAT'S THE NAME OF THE PLACE.DC SPACE. YOU KNOW,IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO GO TO WASHINGTON DC.FOR THREE YEARS I COULDN'T GO THERE. JH:WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THAT? SR:EVERY TIME,WELL,THEY BE BOOKING ME THERE AND ALL AT ONCE,TWO OR THREE DAYS BEFORE WE SUPPOSED TO BE(PLAYING),THEY CANCELLED. THEY KEPT ON DOING THAT.AROUND WATERGATE TIME(1976).S0,0NE NIGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY AT WATERGATE.SO,I WENT TO A PSYCHIC.I ASKED HER WHY?SHE SAID THAT GOD DID IT.HE CANCELLED ALL THOSE PERFORMANCES FOR MY PROTECTION.IT WASN'T GOOD FOR ME TO GO THERE AT THOSE TIMES SO HE CANCELLED ALL OF THEM.UNINTELLIGIBLE.SO THAT YOU'LL(SUN RA)BE ABLE TO GO THERE ONE DAY.I FINALLY WENT THERE. ONE DAY I WENT THERE IN SO MUCH PAIN IT WAS INCREDIBLE.MY FOOT SWOLE UP.I COULDN'T WALK ON IT.I COULDN'T PUT ON A SHOE.I GOT TO WASHINGTON DC MY FOOT SWOLE UP.FOR NO APPARENT REASON.I MET ANO- THER BLACK WOMAN THERE AND(SHE)SAY HER FOOT SWOLE UP,TOO.SHE WAS THERE BUT HERS WENT DOWN WHEN SHE CAME TO HEAR US.SHE SAID SHE CAME ANYWAY.AND HERS...SHE WAS LOOKING AT MY FOOT.HER FOOT WENT DOWN BUT I WENT ON AND PERFORMED.I HAD TO UNINTELLIGIBLE.A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW THAT.THAT MY FOOT WAS REALLY PAIN PAIN... UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT WAS LIKE IT WAS UNNATURAL.I DON'T KNOW... JH:GOT INFECTED OR SOMETHING AND JUST ACHED AND JUST SWELLED? SR:wELL,IT wAS SwOLLEN AND BY BEING swOLLEN LIKE THAT IT wAS... THE SKIN wAS ALMOST ABOUT TO BURST AND THAT HURTS,YOU KNOW? THAT'S THE wAY IT wAS.wASHINGTON Dc.THAT'S AROUND THE SAME TIME, THINx,MARSHALL(ALLEN)GOT HIS HORN sTOLEN.MAYBE AROUND THEN. wE GO THERE ABOUT EVERY YEAR,EvERY Two YEARS,YOU KNOW.WE PLAY BALTIMORE AND THEY RIGHT THERE wHEN wE PLAY wAsHINGTON DC.I DON'T KNOW.THESE THINGS HAPPEN. JH:I HOPE JAPAN'S A REAL GOOD THING wHEN YOU GO THERE.I HOPE THAT REALLY...I'M SURE IT wILL_sINcE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE. Sun Ra at District Curators Cosmic Costume Ball is Washington DC October 1984.Photo By Michael \vli1derman.Jazz ’rimes.Dec 1984. T THERE MUST BE SOME EXPECTATIONS,YOU KNOW.A FRESH THING... SR:I MIGHT NOT Go'cAUsE THEY WANT ME TO USE A JAPANESE IN THE BAND. 7 I A JH:OH.REALLY? SR:THAT'S THE STIPULATION.THEY BOOKED ME THERE UNINTELLIGIBLE.’ JH:USE ALL JAPANESE MUSICIANS? SR:AT LEAST ONE. JH:AT LEAST ONE.YOU MEAN THE...ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE MUSIC- IANS.UNION? * A ’ SR:NO.THIS SUPPOSED TO BE A CONGLOMERATION OF BIG CORPORATIONS. THIS PARTICULAR THING AND NO HAS BEEN BOOKED THERE BY THEM.THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE.THE GIRL WHO'S IN CHARGE IS A MILLIONAIRE.A JAPANESE.SHE SAID...ON THE OTHER HAND...EUROPE IS BOOKING US STHERE BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE GIANT CORPORATION OVER THERE.' THAT'S ANOTHER BOOKING AGENCY.SO,YOU SEE,I GOT TWO CHOICES. JH:HOW no YOU GET BOOKED oN THESE THINGS?DO YOU HAVE A WILLARD ALEXANDER KIND DEAL GOING oN on no PEOPLE JUST..? SR:NO AMERICAN BOOKING AGENT BOOKS ME.I GOT ONE OF THE BEST FRENCH...I GOT TWO FRENCH MEN THAT BOOKS ME AND A GERMAN WOMAN. I'M MAD AT HER RIGHT NOW.SHE AIN'T GOT HERSELF TOGETHER.SOMETIME SHE NEGLECTS THINGS.AND EVERYBODY SAID(THAT)ABOUT HER.THAT SHE... JH:PICKING YOU UP KIND OF THINGS.STUFF LIKE THAT.GETTING ACCOM- ODATIONS PROPER; . , SR:WELL,LIKE,WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY IN AUSTRIA.SHE DIDN'T HAVE WHO YOU GET IN CONTACT WITH OR NOTHING OR WHAT TIME DO WE START OR WHERE.AND SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.‘ A ‘ JH:NO ITINERARY. SR:SHE HAD THE ITINERARY BUT SHE LEFT AUSTRIA OUT.NOW SHE CALLED ME AT THE LAST MINUTE TELLING ME ABOUT AUSTRIA AND WE WERE ALL- READY BOOKED IN CHICAGO.SO IT WAS DIFFICULT,YOU KNOW.THE NEXT DAY IN CHICAGO.WE COULDN'T TAKE THE CHANCE 'CAUSE OF THE TIME DIFFERENCES.THEY AHEAD OVER THERE.SO...WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LATEI TO CHICAGO.SO I HAD TO JUST DON'T SHOW.I KEPT ON TELLING HER I CAN'T MAKE IT.SHE KEPT ON TRYING(TO)MAKE US MAKE IT BY HAVING OUR TICKETS IN AUSTRIA FOR US TO PICK UP TO COME BACK HERE. SEE.IF WE HAD TO COME AND GET THE TICKETS IN ORDER TO GET BACK HERE SO I JUST TOLD DANNY TO SEND HER THE MONEY.WHICH HE DID.HE HAS SOME MONEY...FROM ENGLAND.UNFORTUNATE.HE SENT FOR US.AND WE CAME BACK.WE MISSED FOUR DATES IN GERMANY AND ONE IN AUSTRIA.THE WHOLE WEEK WAS BOOKED,YOU KNOW.BUT I COULDN'T TAKE NO CHANCES.I SAID,'CAUSE,YOU KNOW,SOMETHING MIGHT COME UP WHERE THE PLANES BE LATE AND STUFF.SO WE GOT IN THE PLANE.(TO)COME TO THE UNITED STATES(AND)IT WENT TO FRANKFURT.IT WENT THE OPPOSITE WAY.LIKE SOMEONE JUST SAID YOU GOING TO GERMANY.(LAUGHS)WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY IN GERMANY,IT TOOK US TO GERMANY.AND THEN IT CAME TO THE UNITED STATES.IT WAS INCREDIBLE,YOU KNOW.THE PLANE WAS SUPPOSED TO COME IN,LIKE,12:2O FROM FRANKFURT.AT 12:20 THE PLANE LEFT FOR FRANKFURT INSTEAD.(LAUGHS)WE'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS.IT IS INCREDIBLE.ONE TIME IN FRANKFURT OR ONE OF THOSE GERMAN PLACES THEY GOT...THEY HAD US GET OFF THE PLANE FIRST AND TOOK EVERY- THING OUT OF THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT SAYING THAT SOM MEN HAD UNINTELLIGIBLE FROM ANOTHER PART OF GERMANY WITH BAGGAGE OR FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.UNINTELLIGIBLE FROM AUSTRIA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.THEY HAD THESE BAGS ON THERE.NOW,THEY DIDN'T REPORT TO GET BACK ON THE PLANE SO THEY(THE AUTHORITIES)FIGURED MAYBE IT MIGHT BE A BOME.THE BOME SQUAD CAME OUT AND THEY TOOK SOMETHING OFF DOWN UNINTELLIGIBLE.BUT THEY TOOK US OFF THERE FIRST.FEELING THATI MAYBE IT WAS SET FOR US.I DON'T KNOW.BUT WE WERE THE FIRST ONE TO GET OFF THAT UNINTELLIGIBLE.THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO US IN FRANKFURT.IT WAS FRANKFURT.WELL,FRANKFURT HAS A WAY OF ALSO MESSING UP INSTRUMENTS OF AMERICAN MUSICIANS.THEY PUT IT ON THE CONVEYOR BELT ANY KIND OF WAY COMING OUT UNINTELLIGIBLE.A LOT OF MUSICIANS HAVE HAD THERE INSTRUMENTS MESSED UP IN FRANKFURT.SO THEY DON'T LIKE AMERICANS OVER THERE UNINTELLIGIBLE;AMERICAN T MUSICIANS COME THROUGH THERE THEY GET THEIR VENGEANCE.THEY PUT IT . ON THE CONVEYOR BELT SO IT WOULD FALL.BAM! A JH:FALL OFF AND JUST...FALL TEN FEET,TWENTY FEET.WHATEVER IT IS. YEAH,THEY THROW THEM AROUND.I'VE HEARD OF THAT STORY. PETER HINDS:DANNY(THOMPSON)WAS SAYING HE CARRIES HIS ALTO(ON THE PLANE). A JH:DOES HE KEEP THAT RIGHT THERE? PI-I:YEAl-I. SR:HE'S(HAVING)GREAT PROBLEM TAKING THAT ALTO.THE FELLAS EVEN TOLD ME I COULDN'T EVEN TAKE MY YAMAHA THING ON THERE.(THEY)SAY IT WON'T FIT.I SAID,YES IT WILL.(THEY SAY)NO.I SAID,I BEEN ON THE PLANE BEFORE.SO I HAD TO INSIST.I BROUGHT IT ON THERE. SUN RA:I BE GETTING THESE MESSAGES AND THINGS;LIKE,I SAW THIS- PAPER MADE OUT TO LUCIFER AND...SOMETIME AGO I HAD THIS DREAM OR VISION,I CAN SEE IT NOW.LIKE,IT'S A BIG FORTRESS.LOOK LIKE IT HAD LOGS ALL AROUND BUT IT WAS A BIG...IT WAS HUGE AND YOU TO GIVE THE PASSWORD TO GET IN THERE.IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE PASSWORD.YOU COULDN'T GET IN.AND THERE WAS DANGER ON THE OUT- SIDE.YOU DIDN'T SEE NOTHING BUT YOU STILL BE BETTER(OEF)GOING IN THAT FORTRESS.SO,I CAME UP THERE AND I SAID SOMETHING THAT... HAD THE PASSWORD.I DON'T REMEMBER UNINTELLIGIBLE PASSWORD(AND I) WENT ON THERE AND I REMEMBER THAT.THAT THE PASSWORD GOT ME UN- INTELLIGIBLE SAFELY.THAT'S A VIVID MEMORY THAT I HAVE OF THINGS. JH:THAT'S A VERY STRONG DREAM THERE.THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR? SR:I'LL TAKE IT.I'LL TAKE IT AND USE IT NOW.THAT'S ALL.GO OUT AND... THE HARDEST THING IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT GOING OUT AND HELPING PEOPLE SINCE SOME OF THEM HAVE TREATED ME SO BAD.BUT. THERE ARE A LOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT GOT A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW.AS TO WHETHER IT'S RIGHT TO GO OUT AND PEOPLE UNDEVE- LOPED.ONES WHO WOULD EVENTUALLY YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO HELP NO WAY 'CAUSE THEY NOT ACCEPTED.THEY GOT TO BE ACCEPTED BY ALL THOSE FORCES THAT YOU HAVE.WELL,UNINTELLIGIBLE IS ALL RIGHT.AND EVERY THING WILL WORK LIKE A MAN BECOMING A BILLIONAIRE.SOME FOLKS SAY YEAH,HE'S ALLRIGHT.THE BILLIONAIRE.MAKE ME A MILLIONAIRE.AND AMERICA(PEOPLE CAN'T) JUST GO OUT THERE AND BE SUCCESSFUL UNLESS THESE FORCES SAY YES,HE'S ALLRIGHT.I KNOW THAT.......... :Jorn.Krumpe1mann O t O h P SUN RA CONVERSATION WITH JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . ... . . . . . .. OCTOBER 20,1984...3:30-5:O0PM...PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL.BERKELEY,CA.. JOHN HINDS:THOSE ALL YOUR CASSETTES IN THERE?I SAW A PILE OF THEM IN THERE. SUN RA:I GUESS SO.NOT TOO MANY. JH:ALL RIGHT.BOY,CARRY THESE AROUND WITH YOU.DECEMBER'78.GILLIE'S ('?)- - SR:THAT'S IN OHIO. JH:JEEZ.THAT'S AMAZING.YOU HAVE THAT STUFF HERE. SR:WELL,I HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LISTEN TO. , JH:THAT'S THE ONLY TIME(ON TOUR)YOU HAVE TO REALLY CHECK IT OUT? SR:WELL,I MEAN,I HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LISTEN TO IN CASE IT'S ...(THERE IS)A PART MISSING WHERE I GOT A TAPE SO I CAN WRITE IT OFF,THERE.FOR INSTANCE,LIKE,IF I HAD WRITTEN THIS SONG THAT DIS-h APPEARED I'D HAVE IT.BUT I DON'T HAVE IT SO IT'S LOST.I'DIDN'T RECORD IT. _ « ‘ JH:YOU SHOULD COPY THESE THINGS,DON'T YOU THINK?'CAUSE THESE ARE. LIKE,ONE OF A KIND.THEY SUPPOSED TO BE HEARD BY ANYBODY OR ARE THEY JUST PRIVATE AT THIS POINT? SR:WELL,IT AIN'T DOING ME NO GOOD TO LET FOLKS HEAR WHAT I'M PLAYING.THEY HEARD TOO MUCH ALLREADY UNINTELLIGIBLE.SO I SENT IT'' TO RUSSIA(?),I'M GOING TO SEND SOMETHING... TO EGYPT UNINTELLI- GIBLE.LIBRARIES AND THINGS.'CAUSE I AIN'T GETTING NOTHING FROM MY MUSIC NO WAY.I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE IT AWAY TO THE WORLD.TO OTHER NATIONS I'M INTERESTED IN.MAYBE,YOU SEE,MERCER ELLINGTON GAVE ALL OF DUKE ELLINGTON'S MUSIC TO THE DANISH GOVERNMENT. JH:I READ THAT.SO HOPEFULLY THAT'LL SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. SR:AT FIRST I SAID THAT IT WAS WRONG BUT...AMERICA NEVER DID NOTHING FOR DUKE SO...SO HE REALLY HAD A HARD TIME.HIS UNINTELLI- GIBLE WAS SO HARD. ‘ JH:IT'S AMAZING THAT SOMEONE OF THAT STATURE,I KNOW WE'VE ALL , READ THAT,COULDN'T EVEN...COULDN'T EVEN AFFORD TO PAY... (DANNY THOMPSON STEPS IN THE ROOM TO INFORM SUN RA THAT HE HAS TO LEAVE IN TEN MINUTES.LOOKING THROUGH SUN RA'S CASSETTE'S JH AND PH DISCOVER A COPY OF MICHAEL JACKSON'S THRILLER) ' JH:I GUESS EVERYONE'S GOT THRILLER. A SR:YEAH.I BOUGHT THAT IN SPAIN. JH:WHAT MADE YOU INTERESTED IN THAT? ASR:I"D NEVER HEARD IT YET.JUST BOUGHT IT.HAD NOTHING ELSE TO DO. I WASN'T GOING TO USE THE SPANISH MONEY....I HADN'T HEARD IT.WE HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT IT.I HADN'T SEEN THE PICTURE.I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT HE WAS DOING...BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD IT YET. JH:YEAH.NEITHER HAVE I.I'VE HEARD SOME OF THOSE TUNES,OF COURSE.BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD THE WHOLE ALBUM.I THINK WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T...THIS ONE'S(REFERRING TO CASSETTE TAPE)INTERESTING.YOU GOT DEEP PURPLE ON HERE,'ROUND MIDNIGHT. WOULD THAT BE A NEWER VERSION?SOMETHING YOU PLAYED IN CONCERT? DEEP PURPLE.OR ..;OR IS THAT THE ORIGINAL RECORDING? SR:WELL,THIS IS A cONcERT.(sUN RA HAS A SUITCASE PILLED WITH CASSETTES OPEN ON THE EED) JH:THESE ONE OP A KIND THINGS.. SR:WHICH IS THAT?¥ JH:0H.JUST THESE TAPES.ONE OF A KIND. PH:TREASURES RARE. SR:THAT'S WHERE I HAVE SOME EXPERIMENTS IN SINGING AND SOME OF THEM ARE THERE.FOR KEYS AND TEINSS,THE BEST KEY FOR INSTRUMENTS OR FOR UNINTELLIGIBLE JOHN'S(GILMORE)VOICE OR JUNE'S(TYSON)VOICE. JH:S0 THESE ARE REHEARSALVTAPES.SOME OF THEM. SR:SOME OF THEM. SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER KINDS ARE GOING THROUGH THE TAPES) JH:COULD I PUT ONE OF THOSE IN YOUR LITTLE MACHINE? (SUN RA CUES UP CASSETTE AND PLAYS ExcERPTS FROM SOME CONCERT.‘ IE:MARSHALL ALLEN—SUN RA DUET!) SR:(SWITCHES OFF MACHINE AND EJECTS TAPE)THAT'LL PROBABLY BE ERASED BECAUSE THE FACT... E JH:(INCREDULOUSLY)YOU'RE GOING TO ERASE THAT? SR:.}.IT'S NOT RECORDED GOOD.I HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS MOREOIO~ V ‘ JH:SO YOU WOULD NEVER,I MEAN,YOU WOULD NEVER WANT TO SEE THAT RELEASED OR ANYTHING. 10 SR:NO.I DON'T SEE WHY I SHOULD RELEASE ANYTHING FURTHER.I STOPPED (MAKING)ALL RECORDS IN AMERICA.(SUN RA PUTS IN ANOTHER CASSETTE) THIS IS AN OLD ONE.(PLAYS CASSETTE OF SUN RA PLAYING ORGAN).UNIN— TELLIGIBLE. A JH:I'D LOVE TO HEAR IT.DISTORTED OR NOT. SR:WELL,I HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT TO SEE...IT MIGHT BE ONE SONG ON THERE I WANT.I CAN COPY IT OFF.I NEVER CAN TELL. JH;WHAT SONG.ANY PARTICULAR OR YOU JUST HAVE TO HEAR IT ALL? ’ SR:SOMETIMES I JUST CREATE(THIS IS A REHEARSAL TAPE AS SUN RA CAN BE HEARD SPEAKING WITH DANNY THOMPSON)AND I NEVER DO KNOWI WHAT TAPE IS ON.IN THAT CASE I HAVE TO LISTEN.EVERY ONE OF THEM UNINTELLIGIBLE.UNINTELLIGIBLE MAKE ANY DIFEERENT(SUN RA CAN BE HEARD REHEARSING THE BAND...SUN RA:F SHARP.DANNY THOMP5ON:G ' S SHARP.E.E FLAT...SUN RA:IT'S G SHARP,F.DT:F NATURAL?SR:F NATURAL. AND THEN B FLAT.).......(FAST FORWARDS THROUGH TAPE) . . . . .. (REHEARSING QUEER NOTIONS)THAT'S QUEER NOTION.WE'RE JUST REHEAR- SING.WELL,I'VE CHANGED IT A LOT OF TIMBS.I'M ALWAYS CHANGING THE INSTRUMENTATION. A JH:OH.BECAUSE PEOPLE CHANGING IN THE GROUP ESPECIALLY? SR:WELL,ONE THING,BECAUSE I CAN HEAR SOME OTHER SOUNDS.WHENEVER I DO THAT I CHANGE IT.THEY NEVER DO KNOW WHEN A WHOLE ARRANGEMENT BE CHANGED SO THAT'S THE REASON THEY HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT THE MUSIC.BECAUSE I DON'T TELL THEM SOMETIMES.JUST CHANGE IT. 1 s'oME or IT(REHEARSAL TAPE) WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IT'S JUST PARTS.SECTIONS.NO MELODY.MAYBE NO LEAD JUST HARMONY.I HAVE TO GET... ” A JH:(EXAMINING CASSETTE)I WONDER WHAT THAT IS.i81. SR:...KANSAS CITY.(PLAYS CASSETTE FOR A MINUTE OR TWO)THIS IS NOT A GOOD RECORDING EITHER BECAUSE THE BALANCE ISN'T RIGHT.(STOPSK TAPE)IT’S NOT REPRESENTATIVE,YOU SEE.THAT”S THE POINT ABOUT IT. JH:THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THERE,YOU KNOW. SR:YEAH.BUT IT AIN'T BALANCED. JH:YEAH,YEAH.THAT'S SOMETIME IS REAL HARD TO DO...ELECTRONICALLY. THE BAND BE PUTTING IT OUT BUT GETTING ITLON TAPE)IS ANOTHER THING. ‘ I SR:THAT'S RIGHT.(STARTS TAPE)~ (SUN RA AND JOHN HINDS ARE LOOKING THROUGH A PILE OF SHEET MUSIC) JH:THAT LOOKS LIKE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOPIED OR SOMETHING. XEROXED OR SOMETHING. SR:THAT'S THE ARRANGEMENT(FOR)BUT NOT FOR ME.BUT I'VE GOT A LOT OF ARRANGEMENTS OF THAT.FANTASTIC ARRANGEMENTS.AND UNINTELLIGIBLE CAN'T PLAY IT YET BECAUSE IT'S ANOTHER DIMENSIONAL THINGS AND THEY FIND GREAT DIFFICULTY PLAYING IT AGAINST ANOTHER(ARRANGE- MENT). SR:WELL,IT GET TO THE POINT WHERE A LOT OF THINGS I'M GOING TO THROW IT AWAY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T,YOU KNOW,IT'S NOT GOING TO SERVE ME NO USE AND NOBODY ELSE.IT CAN'T SERVE NOBODY ELSE NO USE UN- LESS,BEFORE THE CREATOR DO THAT HE'D HAVE IT(THE SHEET MUSIC) FADE AWAY RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES.I'M NOT LIKE OTHER PEOPLE.IF THEY DARE TO TRY TO STEAL IT OR RECORD IT IT WILL FADE AWAY RIGHT BEFORE(THEIR EYES)...THAT HAS HAPPENED.THAT HAS HAPPENED ON TAPES.SOME PEOPLE BE RECORDING ME THAT NOT SUPPOSED TO AND THE TAPES FADE AWAY.IT JUST HAPPENED WITH UNINTELLIGIBLE IN MUSIC. IT JUST FADE AWAY OF THE THING,YOU SEE.WELL,THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE PLANET GOT TO TREAT ME PROPERLY IF THEY WANT WHAT I GOT.THEY NOT GOING TO GET IT OTHERWISE'CAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE IT TO THEM.I WAS SENT HERE FOR TO HELP THEM.BUT IT'S UP TO THEM.IT'S UP TO THEM.YOU KNOW,THEY MIGHT NOT BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH.THIS IS A TEST ON THEIR INTELLIGENCE.THEY MIGHT NOT BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO TREAT ME PROPERLY THE WAY THEY SHOULD TREAT SOMEONE WHO HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER.IF THEY DON'T IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE PERSIA. BABYLON AND THE REST OF THE KINGDOMS.THEY GOING DOWN THE DRAIN. ALL OF THEM KINGDOMS WENT DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE THE CREATOR SENT ONE PERSON THAT THEY DIDN'T RESPECT AND THEY WENT DOWN THE DRAIN. THEY DIDN'T...THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST. THE HOLY GHOST IS A SPIRIT SENT TO REPRESENT THE CREATOR AND EVER SINCE UNINTELLIGIBLE THAT ONE.THAT'S THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN.TO RE- SIST OR NOT DUE THE PROPER(THING)BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.YOU SEE,THAT IS VERY BAD BUT THEY HAVEN'T REALIZED,AND IF THEY READ THE ASHKANOT(I KNOW THIS ISN'T THE CORRECT SPELLING AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT BOOK SUN RA IS REFERRING TO)IT TELL THEM RA IS THE HOLY SPIRIT OR THE HOLY GHOST.RIGHT IN THE BOOK.BUT THEY NOT READING. IT'S NOT MY FAULT THEY DON'T READ.BUT I GOT THE BOOKS.IT SAYS DISTINCTLY,RA IS THE HOLY GHOST.SO,SEE,IF THEY DON'T TREAT ME RIGHT IT'S A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST.THAT MEANS THEY WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN.THEY WON'T BE FORGIVEN.IT'S TOO BAD. JH:YEAH.WELL,I'LL HAVE TO GO OUT AND TRY AND TALK TO THEM(AND) SEE IF I CAN TALK THEM INTO,YOU KNOW.PAYING ATTENTION SO I CAN HEAR SOME OF THAT MUSIC.'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S NOT MADE FOR ONE PAIR OF EARS TO HEAR. SR:IT HAS TO BE DONE THROUGH A FOUNDATION.IT'S TOO VAST.AFTER ALL,THIRTY YEARS OF MUSIC IS NOT EASILY...IT'S GOT TO BE...A RECORDING COMPANY CAN'T DO IT.YOU KNOW,EVERYTHING WE EVER 12 REHEARSED,IT'S ON TAPE.SEE,I DOCUMENTED IT BECAUSE WASN'T NO- BODY ELSE WHO WAS GOING TO DO IT.NEITHER WHITE NOR BLACK. JH:THANK GOODNESS YOU DID THAT. SR:SO I DID IT MYSELF. JH:THANK GOODNESS'CAUSE THERE'S SOME OF THE GREATEST MUSIC THAT'S EVER BEEN HEARD. SR:I SPENT A LOT OF MONEY DOING IT.TOO.IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED.YEAR BY YEAR.ON CASSETTES.I MEAN ON REEL TO REEL,CASSETTES AND IN WRITING.IT'S WRITTEN.THE WHOLE THING WAS THERE.BUT IT'S NOTHING BEING DONE ABOUT IT.NOTHING....IN THE MEANTIME I'M STILL CREATING SOME THINGS AND HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DON'T EVEN WRITE NO MORE.DON'T RECORD IT,ON'T WRITE IT.THEY HAVE TO ASK ME TO RE- HEARSE NOW.WHEN WE'RE IN PHILADELPHIA. JH:OH;REALLY?THEY SAY WE NEED THE REHEARSAL.CAN YOU COME AND DO IT TO US? SR:IF‘THEY WANT TO.I JUST SIT THERE FOR DAYS AND DON'T WRITE NOTHING,DON'T SAY NOTHING.I'M JUST SITTING THERE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY TIME.I JUST BE COGATATING. JH:YOU STRIKE ME AS A MAN WHO DOES THINK A LOT.HAS THOUGHT A LOT. AND THAT'S A RARE PERSON. SR:AND THEN EVERYTIME I DO THAT THEN THE CREATOR GETS DISPLEASED WITH THIS PLANET.EVERYTIME I DON'T PLAY HE BE WANTING TO KNOW WHY I'M NOT.I SAY,'WELL,PEOPLE ARE NOT TREATING ME RIGHT.'THEN HE SENDS A STORM.HE SENDS A UNINTELLIGIBLE.HE SENDS SOMETHING BAD FOR THIS PLANET.AND THAT'S THE REASON IT'S HAPPENING NOW'CAUSE THEY'VE NEGLECTED THE PEOPLE HE'S SENT SO HE SENDS ALL THESE THINGS.HE SENDS SOMETHING THEY CAN'T EVEN RESIST.NATURAL CATAS- TROPHIES OF NATURE.HE SENDS THEM HUNGRY CHILDREN.HE SENDS CRIPPLED CHILDREN.HE SENDS ALL THESE BAD THINGS BECAUSE THEY WON'T ACCEPT THE GOOD THINGS.HE COMPEL THEM TO ACCEPT THE EVIL THINGS.VERY SIMPLE.IT IS VERY SIMPLE.THEY CAN GET ONE OR THE OTHER BUT THEY WON'T ACCEPT GOOD THINGS.SO THEY HAVE TO GET THESE OTHER THINGS.THERE'S NO FENCE SITTING,YOU KNOW.THEY THINK IT IS.IT IS NOT.EVERY BAD THING THAT HAPPENS TO THIS PLANET IS BECAUSE SOMEBODY GOOD AT HEART TRYING TO OFFER SOMETHING BETTER (BUT THEY)WOULDN'T ACCEPT IT. « ]% "‘°“" ““"“~‘ cm-rn one R Rum-:’é % 2aasanpamo-aexmev % N<>v.1%&2Tnux%a.a:.Fr1 * s‘ ive Geerken h c I A a R n u S Pat Patrick...Photo PHOTO: PAT BLASHILI. WELL, IT GET TO THE POINT Ia wHERE A I.oT or THINGS I'M GOING To THRow IT AWAY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, . IT'S NOT GOING TO SERVE ME NO usE AND NOBODY ELsE. IT CAN'T sERvE NOBODY EI.sE No usE I uNI.Ess, BEFORE THE cREAToR Do .‘ THAT HE'D HAVEIT (THE sHEET Muslc) FADE AwAv RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES. I'M NoT I.IREoTHER ‘ PEOPLE.II'-' THEY DARE TO TRY TO M STEAL IT OR REGORD IT, IT WILL FADE AWAY RIGHT BEFORE (THEIR A EYES) . . . THAT HAs HAPPENED. I THAT HAS HAPPENED oN TAPES. soME PEOPLE BE RECORDING ME 1‘ THAT NoT SUPPOSED To AND THE TAI>Es I=ADE AWAY. I SUN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-18
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 19 (October, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-10-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN imnou wouuu Earthquake Coming! Richard Perry BUNKY & JAKE: Off the Street Miami in Ruins! And a Cast of Dozens .%V .'\CME UK: 3/6 35 CENTS OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER I-IINDS. SINGLE COPY: S4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. pconversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.... . . . . . . . . .. October l3,l984...Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California . . . . .. Sun Ra:(Sun Ra,JH and PH are looking at the photo taken of the Arkestra in Chicago in the late fifties)That was in Birdland,in Chicago.Bud1and.Nice trumpet player.They say he died of dope un- _intelligible and when he was with us he didn't use nothing like that. Peter Hinds:what's his name? 'SR:Dave Young.Now,they said he did.Everybody else(in the photo) is still alive. ‘PH:Julian Priester. 'JH:Pat Patrick.% SR:He went out to lunch. JH:pI-Ie went out...
Show moreOCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN imnou wouuu Earthquake Coming! Richard Perry BUNKY & JAKE: Off the Street Miami in Ruins! And a Cast of Dozens .%V .'\CME UK: 3/6 35 CENTS OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER I-IINDS. SINGLE COPY: S4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. pconversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.... . . . . . . . . .. October l3,l984...Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California . . . . .. Sun Ra:(Sun Ra,JH and PH are looking at the photo taken of the Arkestra in Chicago in the late fifties)That was in Birdland,in Chicago.Bud1and.Nice trumpet player.They say he died of dope un- _intelligible and when he was with us he didn't use nothing like that. Peter Hinds:what's his name? 'SR:Dave Young.Now,they said he did.Everybody else(in the photo) is still alive. ‘PH:Julian Priester. 'JH:Pat Patrick.% SR:He went out to lunch. JH:pI-Ie went out to lunch? SR:Yeah.I don't know what's wrong with him.Something.They tell me the last(time)he was playing(with)Il1inois Jacquet and then he quit'cause he say he wasn't getting enough solos.Things like that,you know.That unintelligible.He's really a wierdo.(chuckles) But...I taught him a lot of things.I told him the truth about the Creator so...Unintelligible one thing that worries me.He'll be back.Trying to avoid me is like trying to avoid death.(laughter) He not going to get away.I still got a lot of things unintelli- gib1e,you know.In Chicago i got so angry.I went to;well,it's difficult in some ways on this planet.So somebody told me to go down to St.Peter's Cathedral.Catholic church in Chicago.That this priest always wanted something different for the teenagers and they had this game room and it's for the teenaqers_there.And i went down there so the priest said,well,yeah,well...‘Play some of your music.'So i didn't have no record.I had an~acetate.So i played the record.He asked this white girl.He asked;he said.’ 'well,what do you think?'She said,'Father,that's:the music o death.'That made me angry.So i took the record and'left.\gt;; JH;what‘record was that?, L I V SR:well,it was a song called New Horizon. JH:New Horizon.You put that out;we_have that. s SR:Yeah.That's a pretty song.But she say it was the music of death.And i was really infuriated so>i just took it off and left. I didn't ask her why she said that.The priest didn't say nothing.\ He asked her unintelligible.That's what she said.‘~ - JH:Are there any pictures that you know of you with Fletcher Henderson? ’ SR:I had one. ’ \ JH:You have one? SR:I had one but i don't where it's at.It was too bad because the only way you could get the picture(was)through whoever was making pictures at the club DeLisa.He got the negatives but i don't know the person.But there was one there with all unintelligible iim sure.Picture of everyone.Somewhere there's some pictures...Let's see.what was this?I was either playing the piano and Fletcher was standing up smiling...I think that's what the picture was.and i was playing the piano and he was standing up in back of me.Now, that picture...it's too bad it disappeared.I've had things that very badly disappeared.I had a French magazine but i found sort of a negative copy of it and this is a whole page where i said, they said that i said the Creator is my friend.And they put that (in)headlines.And i proceeded to talk about this friendship with the Creator.And the other day i was looking(and)i found a xerox copy.But i had two magazines.I found one in Mexico(l974).That's nice,too.I found one in Mexico and i bought it but it just dis- appeared. i JH:what about your tapes?A1l the archives of tapes.How do you... Do you have all those tapes together?Are they stored nicely? SR:They stored,you know.But what i really need is a foundation. I need to have me a foundation and a place where all the nations in the world can come and hear that.But i’d have to have the money to do it.l need an estate.I need a...That's what it would have to be,you know.A lot of people...This is nice(referring to photo),too.You got another one of these?_ PH:No,i don't. JH§Make a copy for you. SR:I haven't even seen this one. JH:No? PH:That came out last year.what's the date on this? SR:what magazine is that?I never saw that...See that?Look at this.Zig zag magazine. JH:Eng1ish magazine.Kind of Rock kind of stu£f.V SR:Too much.I'm on the Rock magazine.we1l,that's one thing.The Rock artists respect what i’m doing.All of them. ./ ' i... ....., ..-..~ 4 .¢ JH:what are the first recordings?The Dukes of Swing? SR:I don't remember making that recording but i did play with the Dukes of Swing and it's a possibility.Unintelligible but i never heard it.If i could hear it i could tell.But i played with them for quite some time in Chicago.You know,Eugene wright was the leader. JH:What are your memories of that? SR:was a very pleasant memory because everybody in there was, well,innovating and they was trying to do something different. Out from the mainstream.And that's always wonderful.And i was over there with them;They knew i was doing something different. In Chicago there was so many sounds...All the musicians...Really all the musicians really saw to me working all the time.Unintel- ligible when they had to select a pianist they always got unin- telligible and they was always fascinated by what i was doing. They recognized it and that's good.I say hooray for Chicago.Now, New York didn't do it,in a sense,except Sonny Rollins.0ne day Sonny Rollins wanted me.He said,"wel1,i'm going in the Five Spot and i want you to play with me."But i say unintelligible he just trying to help me.Seeing that i'm a star of New York.He gave me some bells.I said,"Yeah,but you know,i'm doing something diffe- rent.Different than your sound.I don't want to be unintelligible a what you're doing."But...later on i found out that this was a mistake because John(Gilmore)told me Sonny Rollins was playing (with)me before he was.But i didn't(know)...John said,"Yeah,well you know,he was playing(with)you in Chicago."I said,"Really?" (John Gilmore),"Yes.At the Rum Boogie somewhere.He was playing with you."And then Sonny said so himself.He said,"Yeah,you know, I've played with him." JH:What's the earliest recording?Is(it)the Stuff Smith thing (with the)solovox? ' SR:The earliest one was on Transition.That's the first recording pi made the world(knew of).Because what i was(doing).I was trying to uplift black people out of this condition they in and i only ’played for them.I unintelligible(did not)play for no white people.Because they got things and they(black people)didn't have nothing and i just trying to see that they would know about the space age and these things and get into electronics and every- thing that would help them.This English magazine out(talking) about that's what i was doing and,of course,they(black people) didn't understand that.They over in the politics and sex and they just have nothing.They listened,but at the same time they didn't listen with their hearts.But i didn't want little black children unintelligible so i tried to help them.So i just unin- telligible.I tried. - But the first band i had,you know,like in high school or college. And i moved back to those points.I was doing things then that i didn't know what i was doing.I didn't understand too much about theory and all but i was doing it.I was doing these things which i found are quite relevant to this age we in now.I was already» doing that.was natural.So now when i listen to some things that. i'm really amazed at how much creativity and how suitable it is for today and tomorrow and forever.Unintelligible.And if the world could hear that...it could change the world. ‘ JH:Something like Queer Notions is such a masterpiece and... SR:I was playing that in my first band. Jﬁzwere you? SR:That's right.I was playing the same...and it sounded just like Fletcher Henderson.l didn't have it...it wasn't instrumentated exactly like F1etcher.But it was there.If you heard the whole sound it was there.The notes were there.But now i'm instrumen- tating exactly the way,the way he had it.By according note by note.Not just writing because of the chord,but sound.Especially did a lot of chromatics.And even though,maybe the chord might be e flat ninth,within that he'd be doing a lot of things that wasn't no e flat ninth. JH:You mean altered notes.All these other notes... SR:Altered notes was over in there.He'd be moving chromatically and you'd have to have exactly the way he'd move it._ JH:Now,how about something like Queer Notions that has,like, augmented chords and then Red'A1len is playing a diminished scale over it. i ‘ SR:That's right£well,they did play his sound.Like the other night and we was playing and Tony Turrentine played the most amazing solo.That was where this spirit thing jump in there. Bing£And he was playing this thing and then one night the trom- bone player was playing somethin9(and the spirit)jumped up. Bing£And that's when i_can tell when the creative forces jump over there and take over there.I always play the same way with the same feeling when the creative forces take over.when the band reaches a certain point the creative forces join us and they play.It's a romance of two worlds you might say.They play. They play the instruments.And then,you know,not everybody(is) priviliged to hear that.They'd have to spend time...like Randy Weston say.No,or Sunny Murray(means Sunny Murray)say,sometimes i(Sun Ra)hook up with the cosmos.And then out of the cosmos come this sound.And then that is,like,food for people.when they hear that sound.It's enlightning,it's encouraging.Like a musician told me last night.That when we played,it made him have faith again.Faith in people.That's what he said.So,now you see that, that is another story. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...October 11,1986 . . . . . ..4 Sun Ra:A lot of things are happening where I'm in demand in Europe and places.Now,the one from Italy called and he want us to continue playing in Italy for,well,fifteenth,sixteenth,seven- teenth,eighteenth,nineteenth,twenty,twenty one,twenty two,on,you know.But,so therefore,but the only thing about it,we playing in ‘Philadelphia on the twenty sixth of December.I'll have to come back.0therwise I plan to stay in Europe.I mean,running back and forth,back and forth and coming over here and not making money. People owing me.That's ridiculous. Peter Hinds:Yeah.That is.well,the possibility sounds real nice. This Italian thing. SR:Hel1,I can't count the twenty sixth because...it was a problem.Because we was supposed to play there Halloween and I cancelled that and play in New York instead.So I can't cancel this because...we got a problem.I just stay in Europe somewhere because,you know,I'm not really the kind of person who's proud to want people to applaud for me or people to like me or to play. I'm not like that.I'm a scholar and I'm a spirit being so I'd be quite delighted not to be seen by people.I'm not,I'm not good for that.A lot of people don't understand that.They probably just consider me as an average musician like the rest of them.I'm not like them. PH:I don't think people consider you a musician just like everye one else. - » SR:But they not getting my spiritual message.What's happening is everyday is getting worse for all humanity.Everyday...with di- _ seases.new diseases and all kind of things.I was trying to avoid that.If they listened to me they wouldn't have to go that way.1 But unfortunately they didn't.And these bad things begin to escalate.That's why I prefer low profile on some island somewhere away from it.I don't want to see this.I don't want to see this famine and disease and all this stuff just headed for America. I don't want to be part of that.And I know it's going to happen. So it's a serious problem.And then when I got somebody like Ronald(wilson)who played with me earlier(Ronald Wilson first played with Sun Ra in Chicago in the fifties)showing strange tendencies or whatever,I don't know what's wrong with him.He' getting paid. - PH:Yeah,yeah.well;it could be he just needs a rest or a break. He just might need a break or something like that.Take a few weeks to...by himself or something.I don't know. _ SR:0n the East Coast you do not antagonize the folks in author- ity.Particular(1y)in New York around there.Because it seem like it's very nice but them folks don't play.You take,for instance, every year you find a black musician over in the East River.with his saxophone tied around him and his sexual organ cut out.Every year it two or three found in that river...They don7t even get in the paper(laughs).Albert Ayler got in the paper...it unintelli- gible,you know,dead. PH:Yeah.Oh,l heard he commited suicide.That's what I finally SR:Yeah,he shot himself in the back of the head and commited suicide.How does that sound? PH:well,it's pretty sad.l'll say that. SR:How can anybody shoot himself in the back of the head?’a PH:I read_that his sister...that is what his sister said. ‘SR:His sister what? PH:I read in a magazine that's what his sister said about that. That he killed himself. — . » SR:Yeah,but I met a fellow,a white musician who was in the studios recording(with)Albert Ayler.he had a contract,he said... he said he went,I told him I heard that Albert Ayler was shot in the back of the head,he said he was a friend of the family;he went to the funeral.He said it's true.He also said that Albert became kind of hard to handle in the studios or something and, well;I mean when you're recording.He didn't want to do this.He didn't want to do that and it caused a lot of trouble.He told me that.He hinted...that they got rid of him1To make their money back.See,this is a serious,music is.a business and these people. be spending money out on people.They want their money back.* PH:Yeah,that's»true. SR:New York;if they don't get their money back...they just say goodbye.They talk about Chicago but I'm telling you New York is wi1d.It's wild. Pﬁzspeaking of New York,how were the Sweet Basil concerts?‘ SR:It was wonderful.Standing ovations.Good crowds.But,you know, Sweet basil isn't all that big.But nevertheless they charge... what do they charge?Fifteen dollars?Something like that and they had packed house.So it was.it was truly succesful.But,I'm telling you,it's things like with this Ronald thing is worrying me. PH:Yeah,welI one other thing I wanted to ask you about;did Santana get in touch with you? SR:Not yet.0ne time his office,or something,got in touch with me. They was talking about playing in Madison Square Garden with the anti-crack thing.But I didn't hear no more.That Bill Graham out _there he probably... stood in our way of doing things,too.And so, seemingly,since he's(Santana)up under him he might have just been discouraged frm this project employing me.' PH:well,that's interesting.well,we'1l see what happens.See what happens over the next month.If you don't hear anything maybe I can give him a call and see what's going on.Actually,you're going _to be gone all,yeah,that's true.You won't be back... saswnat? G PH:Oh,I'm just thinking out loud.Actually you'll be gone next. week for about three or four weeks. SR:I really will enjoy it.I don't think that Ronald's going. Because,see,we going to...we going to Germany.The Germans don't be taking no stuff either. yPH:That's true. SR:None of them nations over there...right now they mad with America anyway.when an American go over there and the slightest thing that he does that's in error they magnify it. PH:That's true.You've got to be real diplomatic and respectful. G 1 SR:That's right.well,He's not diplomatic.He's too much for me. (It was)About really was helping him and he's playing but the way they is saying in New York and Washington DC that he can play in but he can't play out.And New York said that he's not a John Gilmore. PH:well,not everyone should be a John Gilmore like that or can. be. ' SR:well,he's talking about he's not coming up to the standards' of this band.So,now,he don't know that.'Cause he's playing his horn.He's really playing.But we on the East Coast and they're very critical and they're very observant of musicians.So he hasn't passed that test.He don't know that.He is over in his own self and his ego about how well he plays and he does but they say he's p1aying...ghetto music and he playing it well but he can't play out.In other words.he can't play avante-garde music. a ’ Ber1in...l983... Photo:Jorn Krumpelmann E10 Omoe Salah Ragab John Gilmore Danny Thompson Marshall Allen Il Capo Night Club...Cairo,Egypt....l984....................... Sun Ra Archives Geerken ._.,__ ,..-......... .. . ._ - { ..I:l4kwl|I!! Lrllnu. ;lI.IHn.It!.ul. ml? I ._|.lvr|..f \l i..falII.V! l.I|p|.|vuJ.l.E1I..I.|.II|nI.'.’ I. v11»I|ln|iI.II.r|Il|II|v.l|n1.|I|..|II ; .5 ;Vi... . tre Danny Thompson Marshall Allen ’tO0OOl984000OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Photo:Jorn Krumpelmann “was driving the truck.About e1even(band members)in the van or I told him that and I hinted to him that.He was saying,about a month ago,he said,we1l,they can't...they can't play no standards. They can't play no blues.Of course some avante-gardists can't. But what they are playing,they playing.I told him he should in- vestigate it.But he's hard headed.I told him you don't know them and you haven't met them because they don't play too many places. And you haven't experienced that thing.‘ ' PH:Ronald,he's been playing,you know...well,he just hasn't de- veloped that side of things.Maybe that vocabulary,you might say. SR:Well,he won't listen. PH:He won't listen,you're saying. SR:You tell him something and it would be like water off a duck's back. ‘ i e ' PH:That's a whole'nother,you know,a whole 'nother area which John(Gi1more)has certainly explored and Marshall(A1len)and... SR:well,everybody in this band come under scrutiny.That's right. They being scanned by the Creator. . V . PH:That's true.(laughs) SR:He's doing his scanning.He's doing his scanning over every- body.Top and bottom,white and black,purple,green.He's scanning everybody on this planet.And his scans are something else.It's terrible.He's scanning. ‘ L ‘ ‘ PH:That's true.(laughs) SR:That's what happened when he left my instrument there.In San Diego.Ever since then the Creator been scanning everybody in this band because he doesn't want me to fail in my mission.If I got folks in this band who's standing in my way...it ain't too good for the person who is doing it. Pﬁzwhat happened in San Diego,now? SR:well,I thought I told you about that. PH:No. SR:well,we left San Diego...I was in this van and (James)Jacson something like that and so all of a sudden I had this...I don't know.It wasn't like a vision...anyway...it was like a dream.I could see... I could see the van.I could see the van and then a big black ball rolled into vision.The black ball...somebody ‘ was,like,in the black ball and they said everybody,al1 the fellas in the van got a zero for the day. PH:Got a zero? SR:A zero.They didn't pass the test.And so get out of the van and. ‘go up there and ride with Jacson.This voice told me that.Get out and ride with him'cause they got a zero today so don't even ride with them.I didn't tell you that? T PH:No,I didn't see you after San Diego. SR:So,I got out of the van and then I told them they had got a ‘zero for the day.And they say what do you mean?I said,we1l.it seems that be the Creator was saying he scanned you,everybody . in the bannand you got a zero so somebody said,as long as John (Gilmore)been all there?I say,everybody in this band got a zero. That includes John,that is driving everybody.(Don't know who's driving the van.Probably Danny Thompson)They told me to get out so.I said I'm getting out because I have the will to obey spirt- ual things.So I got out of the van and rode with Jacson.And we went on to the place...where we going to play.They went to put up my synthesizer(and)they had left it in San Diego. PH:0h.is that right? SR:I"m talking about a voice told me they got a zero. PH:Oh,yeah.'l'hat is a big zero..I mean,you've got it back,right? SR:I got back.But the point of it is very serious because,maybe, I wouldn't have gotten it back.And nobody missed it,you see.so they wasn't as much for my welfare as I for them.Uninte1ligible. The Creator is thorough,thorough,thorough.And he lets nobod slide.Long as they been with me,he give them a zero. , PH:That is scary... SR:It most certainly is really scary.So,anyway,as I was saying... that Ronald(wilson),he‘d be saying things that make people not like him or something.I mean the general public.He be saying these things,he might not mean no harm.He's on the East Coast. That's not wise.The East Coast moves fast.In California you do‘ have a chance to relax. ' L PH:wel1Lit~might mean he just,maybe needs just to,you know,take a break or something like that. . ‘ .l SR:He's taking one now.(laughs)You might say. suN RA OCTOBER 19. 1984 CONTINUED FROM SRR 18, PAGE 16 AND THAT'S wHAT TH EY HAVE TO Do IMMEDIATE- LY. so AMERI<A HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY GET oVER AND sHow THEsE PEOPLE THAT THEY NEGLECTED. ‘cAusE THEY HAD IT. THEY NEcI.E<TED THESE<RE- ATIVEARTIsTs. Now THEY NEEDTo BRING IT OUT I TO THE woRID (AND) A<I<NowIEDcE THAT THEY ARE MosT SUITABLE FOR AMERIcA INTHE FUTURE. J AND vou c.oT A |.OT or THEM wHo Is PUSHED BA<I< BECAUSE THEY Is BLACK. THAT wAs PUSHED BACK BE<AusE THEY wERE POOR wHITEs. AND, vou KNOW, THEY HAD A IoT TO OEEER. AND AMERI<A DIDN'T Do THAT. so, THEREI=oRE, TH Ev HAVE TO DoTHATNow . . . BECAUSE wHAT TH Ev DIDN'T Do Is wHAT <ouI.D BE THE sAIVATIoN or AMERIcA. WHAT THEY ARE DOING HAs MADE AMERICA A EEAR To THE REsT or THE NATIoNs AND THEY REc.IN To HATE THE AMERIcANs. THEY DON'T LOOK TO IT NO MORE SO THEN . . . BUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE To BE IIRETHAT. BEAUTY, cu I.Tu RE, PEOPLE wHo ARE sIN<ERE wHo DID woNDEREuI. THINcs IN AMERI<A. THEY NEED To HAVE IT IN A THEsE EMBASSIESAND THE PEOPLE <oME ouT. sEE AND READ BOOKS AND REAI.IzE THE woNDERI=uI. PEOPLE THAT AMERIcA I>RoDu<ED. THAT'S wHAT I HAVE To BE DoNE IMMEDIATELY. To DIsI>EI. THE IMAGE or THE uanr AMERIcAN AND “UNINTE|.l.l- GIBLE" I.IRE AMERIcA. wARs ANDTHINc.s ARE NECESSARY. suT MusIc Is NECESSARY Too.; AMERI<A Is GUILTY or NEGLECTING MusI<. AND. I vou RNow, TEI.EVIsIoN, THEY coT THE soAI> 4 I?‘ OPERAS. THEY sHouI.D HAVE soME BANDS DN 4 THERE. GIVE THE MusIcIAN AcHAN<E. A<ToRs EDT A <HAN<E. EVERYBODY aoT A <HAN<E BUT THE MusI<IANs. I.ITTI.E RI<HARDIs TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW; BUT I'M TAI.I<IN¢. ABOUT IT Too. I KNOW wHAT IT TAKES TosTRAIaHTEN AMERI¢A ouT. YOU GOT To PUT soME MoRE % THEATERs uI>. YOU usED To HAVE I.IVE THEATERs. DID AWAY wITH THAT. PEOPLE DoN'T HAVE A cHANcE To COME oUT To sHow wHAT THEY coULb bo. BUT WHEN THEY HAb THEATERs . . .IT wAs BETTER. IT'S A BETTER woRLb. THEY NEED To PUT TH EM UP. AND ALL THE <oMMUNITIEs, THEY NEED To PUT cULTURAL HoUsEs up THERE. THEY NEED To BRING THE woRLb To AMERICA IsE<AUsE EUROPE BRINGS THE woRLb To EUROPEANS. THEY boH'T HAVE To <oME ovER HERE. THEY BRING IAI>ANEsE (AND) RUssIAN. THEY sEEEvERvTHINc. ALL KIND or cULTURAL THINGS. AMERI<ANs DON'T <oME oUT AND sEE I._lVE MUsI<. TH EY LooR AT THAT Tv ALL THE TIME AND (TH E) REsT or THE NATIoNs ARE NoT REPRESENTED. vou NEED To KNOW wHAT TH EY DOING <ULTURE wIsE. ALL vou sEE Is wHAT THEY DOING wAR wIsE. BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR TO AMERICA. THEY NEED TO SEE THE wHoLE THING AT THIs POINT BECAUSE TH EY ARE A womb POWER Now.THIs Is NOT N0 LITTLE oLb LOG CABIN <IvILIzATIoN ovER HERE. THIs Is A womb POWER AND vou <AN'T HoLb YOUR POSI- TION av wAR. ONLY SPIRITUAL THINc.s CAN HELP AMERICA. GUNS WON'T HELP THEM No MORE <AusE THE <nEATon HAS DECREED: No MORE wABs THAT vou To wIN HERE. BUT YOU <AN WIN A GREAT WAR wITH SPIRITUAL THINGS. AND MY MUSIGIS REPRESENTING IMAGES OF BETTER TYPE OF WORLD ON A HIGHER LEVEL. AIN'T NO EQUALI- B TY THERE. SOME PEOPLE CAN MAKE IT, SOME % CAN'T. SO, YOU MIGHT SAY I'M ANTI-EQUALITY A BECAUSE I'M REPRESENTING ANGELIG THINGS AND V TH ERE'S No EQUALITY AMONG ANGELS. vouaoT A I A HIERARCHY. FROM TH E HIGHEST DOWN To . . . BUT THE LowEsT ANGEL IS JUST As Mu<H I>BoTE<T|oN “UN|NTEl.l.lG|BLE" ALL or THE OTHER ANGELS. vou BETTER NoT ToucH oNE or TH EM, YOU KNOW. THIS PLANET Is SEEMINGLY JUDGED BY <oMMANp- I MENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT so I'M JUST coma TO GIVE THEM THE ELEVENTH GOMMANDMENT: THou MUST HEAR RA. JAZZ Is REALLY TRUE souL, cosmo souI. MUSIC BE<AusE IT'S ABsTRA<T, IT'S cREATIVE, IT'S SPON- TANEOUS. ON THE MOMENT. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE A EIRE. vou KNOW. EIRE's ABsTRAcT. BUT IT CAN DO THINGS. AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF FIRE, YOU KNOW. IT'S . . . YOU MIGHT SAY IT'S ALL A <osMo SPIRITUAL EIRE. wHI<H HAs NOTHING TO Do wITH RIG HTEousN Ess. IT'S ABouT SOMETHING EI.sE. AND IN oRDER TO PARTAKE or IT vou HAVE To COME OUT AND HEAR IT AND sEE IT BE<AusE ' wHAT I'M DOING Is NoT THE soRT or THING vou <AN IUST HEAR IT oN THE RE<oRDs. vou GOT To sEE THE VISUAL PART BE<AusE wE DREss MusI<AL- LY AND WE MOVE MUSIGALLY. SO YOU CAN'T GET IT I DN A RE<oRD. EVEN IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A VIDEo TAPE, vou WON'T sEETHE FULL IIsT or THIs BAND. vou HAVE To BE THERE BEcAusE THEN wHEN vou coME THERE vou (ARE) PART or THE ARREsTRA. vou CAN'T BE A PART or THE ARKESTRA IF vou STAY AT HOME. Pat Patrick and Danny Davis Photozsun Ra Archives Geerken 2 :Jorn Krumpelmann Photo u il...1986... n n 8 m l e P m U I K n I O J Hohentwe Photo: ¢§§
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-19
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 20 (December, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-12-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: I—I|—o9-sacs ~ - Irljjﬁ j w -.-1.4-no gun‘-\-I avoinwtﬂ ENERCIES THE cosmic Roles ARE WRiTTEN ON suNdRy DARCHMENTS Timed with fiRE Blut-: VibRATiONS of pulsATiNq HAME ENERqiEs. . . f0_RcE diMENsi0Ns AbSTRACT plANEs of siqhr ANCI soumd. SUN RA Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds,Peter Hinds and Carl Leblanc Afternoon of October 31,1988...Best western Motel . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. San Francisco,California . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Continued from Sun Ra Research-Issue Fifteen-February 1998 . . . . .. Sun Ra:The black church got to change that.Get rid of the idea that the Creator is going to let an innocent man die to save a guilty one.Because he not going to do it.It's a shame and a dis- grace.But the church set that up.The Bible says that Kayifus(I'm sure I'm misspelling this),the high priest was the one who said it is better for one man to die to save the nation.And,therefore, the Christian doctrine for a man dy...
Show moreI—I|—o9-sacs ~ - Irljjﬁ j w -.-1.4-no gun‘-\-I avoinwtﬂ ENERCIES THE cosmic Roles ARE WRiTTEN ON suNdRy DARCHMENTS Timed with fiRE Blut-: VibRATiONS of pulsATiNq HAME ENERqiEs. . . f0_RcE diMENsi0Ns AbSTRACT plANEs of siqhr ANCI soumd. SUN RA Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds,Peter Hinds and Carl Leblanc Afternoon of October 31,1988...Best western Motel . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. San Francisco,California . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Continued from Sun Ra Research-Issue Fifteen-February 1998 . . . . .. Sun Ra:The black church got to change that.Get rid of the idea that the Creator is going to let an innocent man die to save a guilty one.Because he not going to do it.It's a shame and a dis- grace.But the church set that up.The Bible says that Kayifus(I'm sure I'm misspelling this),the high priest was the one who said it is better for one man to die to save the nation.And,therefore, the Christian doctrine for a man dying came from the church.A high priest named Kayifus.He set it up.And they begin to build that on...on that lie.That's what's happening today.So the Creator just took the book and they tried to brush the name of Jesus out.Resistance.But the Creator took and made,built a great church on that lie.And he sent it to the white race...on that lie.He had the whole thing to go up untill this point in history when people are going to get tired of that lie.And they getting tired of it.Because they...it ain't...it doesn't lead them to the Creator.He's got them blocked...because it's not true.But,in the meantime a lot of innocent men have died.Because of the church. And the black church now is beginning to see something is wrong and the black Urban League,Urban League in Philadelphia is saying something's wrong.And in the the Philadelphia paper(probably the Philadelphia Inquirer),a white paper,they said the Urban League issued a paper saying that black folks are so far behind the rest of the nations are geared toward the space age and black folks are so far behind that you can tell the reason why they are by turning on your tv and your radio on Sunday and listen at(to) the church.That's happening in Philadelphia.You listen to the church, what they saying.They behind.So,they telling the truth.But...I hearing unintelligible.But I'm the only one who can help them. But,you know,you got a lot of trecherous folks over...It wouldn't be good for me to unintelligible that treacher(ousness)'cause the Creator unintelligible I don't want to hurt nobody.This Creator would be eliminating folks that be against me.Get rid of them.So unintelligible.This is not a play thing.Like in Chicago.A drummer playing(with)me named James King and he was a wonderful drummer. I'm telling you he was something.But musicians are always asking me questions.That's one thing in Chicago.And one day we,one morn- ing we(were)playing a birthday dance at Birdland and about twenty five musicians asked me questions after p1aying.They was always asking me questions.I said something and the drummer who was playing with us named James King said,"No,I didn't like that." And then the other musician said."Man.you played with the band. That's your leader.You got a nerve saying he's not telling the truth and you insulting our intelligence.You think all(of)us(are) fools.Twenty five of us standing up here and you talking about no and we talking about yes and your leader must be speaking the truth and you in the band and if.you know,you don't understand what he said,you must be dead.If you dead,you need to be buried." And I said,"Don't say that.Don't say that because I'm dealing with the kind of Creator(and)he be listening to what we saying. And...the saxophone player named James repeated,"If you don't be- lieve what Sun Ra says you must be dead and if you dead you need to be buried."In fifteen minutes he was dead.without any reason whatsoever.He got in the car and Ronald Wilson got in there with him and he put his head back and they thought he was asleep.He was dead.That happened to me.And something else happened.And this something else happened.This(Ahk Tal)Ebah was playing with us and Ebah,he didn't have no discipline and we was in a place up there in Michigan(and)he came and he said,in the bus station,he was loud,talking to me...”You a Jew and you don't want people to know."I said,"I'm not no Jew.I don't believe in Moses.I don't go (to)no synagogue.why you got to say that about me?"Oh,you just unintelligible(Ebah's response).I say no I'm not religious at all.And I don't know why you saying that about me.Bus standing out there waiting and he was busy talking about me.And I finally said,well,you know,Jews go in the oven and all kind of bad things be happening to them periodically.And I'm not in that.I say,you be the Jew.You go in the oven.Not me.He went in the oven.That's right.The creator put him right in the oven.So I know what I'm talking about.when I said that it triggered something.He did get in the oven at his sister's house... he said the spirit of death told him to do it.But the Creator sent him a choice.He sent my spirit and my spirit was telling him,now,aon't do that.The spirit of death,he said it was the spirit of death,told him,"Don't pay attention to Sun Ra.Get in the oven so you can keep warm."And he went on,got in the oven so his sister didn't know what to do.Sent for the...Somebody went downstairs(and)to1d the superintendent there's a man roasting in the oven.So the superintendent came up there and ejected him out of the oven.Then he bit the superin- tendent and the superintendent knocked him down on the floor and he bit him again on the lower part of his body and both of them was in the hospital together and I asked him in the hospital,"why did you bite this man who was trying to save you?why do you al- ways have to attack and destroy your saviors?He just trying to help you?"He said he(the superintendent) was trying to keep me from doing what I want to do.I said,"what did you want to do?" He said,"I wanted to keep warm.And I put my hand in there and the rest of my body he cold.My elbows.Anything I put in there will get warm but I was still cold.So,I decided if I put the biggest part of my body in the oven I'd be warm all over.The biggest part is my booty.So,I got that over in the oven and he snatched me out right at that point.So I bit him." PH:That's Ahk Tal Ebah,the trumpet(player). SR:Yeah,that's what happened.And then the police came...he had been fasting for almost sixty days.A unintelligible(said)don't do that.Get up unintelligible somebody.So they had to...and that's the reason he got so cold.Every cell in his body lost it's warmth.So then he had his toes like this,you know,and the police trying to get him out.It took about seven police to put chains on him and drag him out that place'cause they couldn't move him. So his toes got frayed and everything.They was burnt and they threw him over in the...like an animal,they threw him over in the wagon.And that's how they got him to the hospital.And then,he stayed in there.He was burnt seriously.He couldn't play his trum- pet no more.Burnt 1ips.And then he...he'd come out to house and I'd feel his desolation so terrible that I've always stopped re- hearsing.And then he was selling perfumes and incense but at about a year later he died from...they didn't know what it was. Unintelligible(referring to possible sickness).Everything struck him.Died.That's what happened to Ebah.Now,I just told you two cases.It's not a play thing.This is serious.In Chicago I was passing out some pamphlets and papers to the fellas in the band and we was playing a black place and he had two sons.One of them was a unintelligible kid unintelligible.So,I had these papers.So, then,he came and snatched one of them.I said,"Don't do that.It's just for the band musicians and this is..."And he unintelligible (replied),"what is this shit?"I said,"Don't say that.I'm dealing with the real Creator and it ain't wise."(He replied)”I don't be- lieve in God.what is this shit,anyway?what is this unintelligi- ble?You got down here about God and God almighty and all that bullshit.what is that?what does that mean?"I said,"wel1,when you're in serious trouble you can call on almighty God or God almighty.And that's the difference."Now,so he kept it.He wouldn't give me the paper and we always rehearsed there every day at four o'clock we'd be there and Ronald unintel1igible(not Ronald Wilson) pick us up.At three thirty when he supposed to pick us up to come out to...he called me to say his car wouldn't run.His car wouldn't start.He was always tinkering with cars.I said, "what's wrong with it?"He said,"I don't know.It just won't start."And at four o'clock...it started.I said,"Why'd it start?" He said,”I don't know."So,then,we went out on to the place...a school that we always had to go by,a schoolhouse had unintelli- gible.The schoolhouse was a block long.Big,six stories...big block.Every window in that schoolhouse was out.Broken out.So we said,"What is that?"Every window broken out.Then we went on up and there was a house sitting on the corner alley.And the house was sitting up there like it was made out of match sticks.Unin- telligible(Sun Ra makes a blowing sound.As if to blow the house down.)And we said,"what is that?"So we went on around the corner and then we come to another place there.An automobile...where they had supplies there.And they had a big star(that had been) hanging up over the door,(and)the star was sitting down in front of the door.We were puzzled again.So we turned around,we saw a big signboard that looked like somebody took an ax and chopped the signboard in half.So we went on there and then this owner of the place(the"black place”where Sun Ra was rehearsin9).his son (the one who was asking,"What is this shit?")came running down there and said,“I know what you mean.I know about almighty God." He said because he was sitting up there in his room and all at once the tv went out.He had a bad dog.The dog put his tail behind him legs and he said,"A knock came on the door."BamlAnd he say, "Bam!"And he got up faster than lightning.He said,so he went to the door to see what it was and he said it was the wind.He said it was unintelligible.Bam!He said,"Lord God almighty."And the wind(went)shhhhhhhhh(wind sound)bam!Struck the schoolhouse. Knocked every window out.He said,"Yes.That saved my life.I be- lieve in God now,"So,you see.I'm not dealing with something that to play around with,He(the son)said,"He came to get me.And I saved my life by saying God almighty."So,you see,this is some- thing else.And then another thing happened.The people in the paper,they couldn't say what that was that came through.Some people say they saw some little black figures running up the road and these little black figures would lift cars up in the air.Somebody be driving their car and they'd be up there in the air,they’d lift it up there and then a man came out of his house, an apartment house,and the wind took and stand him up against the apartment house and killed him and then they said these black figures,they'd run around the garage so blamlalamlBlamlBlam!Blam£ Wouldn't nothing happening.(Then)They'd run around.Blam!Blam1And the garage would fall apart.Then they said that these black figures ran into the lake and they ran in there and they ran back out and they ran back into the lake.That happenend in Chicago. I got witnesses to it.John(Gilmore)know about it.Everybody.So then I say,well,I wasn't going to deal with this Creator.I wasn't going to do it.I don't want nobody to get hurt.I'm in human form and they could adopt me and then they'd be through.they'd be through.So,since they didn't follow these other things I just say I wasn't...I wasn't going to defend.Because this Creator,this Creator is something else and the world don't know nothing about it.Except maybe in Egypt when Moses over there... and the river turned to blood and all that.He was dealing with the...a part of that Creator.He was dealing with something like that but he dealt with it in the wrong way.The Creator told me that Moses,he went to the school of the Egyptians and he...they taught him the black writing.But they didn't teach him the red writing.They didn't teach him the red writing.The red writing is not as I am written am I unintelligible.That means the way it's down there...it's like cryptogram.See in the(news)paper? PH:0h,yeah.The cryptogram. SR:They didn't teach him that.They taught him this boom,boom, boom.Like...In the beginning God created...But that ain't the way it reads.Unintelligible not am I written am I read.It ain't talking about r—e-d.It's talking about r-e-a-d.And Moses didn't know that.So then he went so far and then he wasn't obedient when the voice told him now,you go out there and speak to the rock and water come out of it.And he was so mad with the people,he went out there and hit the rock.Then the voice said,now,I told you to speak to the rock.And then he spoke to the rock and water came out sure enough.Said I told you to speak to the rock and you hit the rock.You will not go into the promised land.You will die.That's in the book so this God,you obedient or else.And he died.with all these miracles,he still died.So,you see,in dealing with this I unintelligible step by step.I don't hurt nobody. But behind them three things I told you and then Pat Patrick had all these different,you know,the writings(the writings which Sun Ra was handing out to the band).He had all of it anf he had it in a briefcase so he took it and he put it in a...Moline,Illinois where his mother stay.He put it in storage.He'd go there occasionally and see things and one day when he went there the briefcase with all the things I had written was gone.It was gone. And the people that was there,they say they don't know nothing about it and Pat was still going to try to do something about it so the man,seemingly,sold the place,got new owners and they gave Pat a eviction notice to move.And this way they wasn't responsible.But they took that.Now,it must have been very val- uable what I was saying,it's very valuable and a... JH:Yeah,he was very upset by that. SR:well,he still didn't wake up.It just,maybe,he's supposed to be part of what I'm doing because he's not pure in heart.Like,Danny (Thompson)came up and offered his hand to him,in Chicago,he put his hand behind his back.That kind of thing.So,he has a lot of _ hatreds in him against things.That's the reason he can't be with this band.Maybe one day...he'1l wake up.Maybe,but I'm not respon- sible.I ain't letting it worry me.There‘s five billion people on the planet and all of them belong to the Creator so even if I want I can go out there and say come with me.And they will but I'm not into that.It would have to be,you might say,practical1y made over'cause their whole thought is they messed up. -——— a .—-r-an-wt p__,-1 Yes,so it's so many things I,like,all the way back the Creator taught me everything way back there in ancient day.They still the story about the apple and the tree and the mother of God. They still had that going,you know.This ain't no new thing.But, they were teaching,they were teaching that the son of God,his mother's name was Ida and not Mary.That's what that's way back. You have to hear unintelligible say.They say,instead,it was an orange tree.And the orange tree,it the fruit of the son.And that's what they unintelligible in the mythology.That the mother of the son was named Ida.And the tree was an orange tree which }represents the son.Now,that's back there in that mytho1ogy.which as I said,I was talking about the Creator teaching me all the way back in the past.He taught me things that most people don't ?know.And I unintelligible the library and said,"Yes.This is so and this is so."And I could show them.It didn't have to be me. ‘Look in their own library and they find out everything I'm telling them is true.That puts me on the spot.But,the planet will stay like this untill somebody tells the truth.The only part about it;the Creator don't want nobody else.He don't teach - nobody else but me.That's it.He say he ain't going to do it so ' if I don't do it they just destroyed.Because they the ones who set this up.Unintelligible.He got their own government down here.He's not going to interfere with them.Down Here On The Ground(Song written by Gail Garnett and Lalo Schifrin.From the film Cool Hand Luke).I see you all couldn't find it.So the Creator told me where to find it.See,the Creator told me where’ to find this and you all see that.Now,they(Peter and John Hinds) sitting up here,both of them saying they couldn't find(it). (laughter)Here that,Danny?(Danny Thompson has just entered the room)Down Here On The Ground. PH:Carl(LeB1anc)found it today. SR:I done come right in this city and told Carl where to go to get it. Danny Thompson:You sure did. SR:(Begins reading lyrics)Down(Here)On The Ground ain't a place for living.Yeah,that's right.Down on the ground watching sparrows fly/I'll watch the birds as they make their way/Flying sort of free and I wish it was me/But I'm down here on the ground want- ing something better/Down here on the ground wanting something more/But one morning sure I will find wings on my mind to take me high/So if you hear the sound/We're down here on the ground/ My friend it's only me trying to f1y.I like that.June(Tyson)had it almost exactly right.You know I'm a precisionist and I like to be...I see the original.She had almost all of it.That's pretty good.So I'm sure,I'm sure it's about one thing that she didn't right'cause my spirit said it was something that she didn't do. But one morning...sure I will find wings on my mind to take me high/So if you hear the sound...it's something there she didn't get.I got to find it.But that's something else. JH:There it is right there.That's amazing to be able to...I never even heard of that place. . SR:Came right here and found it.And never could find it.I told you all in advance.I said,now,unintelligible go and find that, look for the sheet music of this.And what I did,I said,"Well, Carl,bring me the phone directory."And I said,"Now,call this place(Buckner Music),they got it."And he called it. Carl LeBlanc:First place. SR:And he was shocked.He say,"They say they do have it."(Sun Ra and John Hinds laugh) PH:It's hard for me to be1ieve.(1aughs) JH:I'm sure they're not printing up tons of this and mailing it out every week.You know,it's,like,been sitting there for... SR:I found the song,Buster.(Buster Smith has just entered the Aroom)So you couldn't find it.Peter and John,they couldn't find it.I come here and told Carl bring me the phone book and Carl," go there and get a taxi and get this song for me and here's the place here.They got it.(PH laughs)And Carl called,I said call now.He called up and he was so shocked and he said,"They say they got it."(SR laughs) JH:I’m shocked,too.(JH laughs)That's one of the reasons you're the leader,right? SR:Well,that's the reason I deal with the Creator.He'd be telling me things.Peop1e don't want to believe,but he tells me things. He really tells me. C I PH:They were shocked someone probably asked for it,too. SR:He really tells me things. PH:I'm amazed.This is amazing.Here it is.This is(from)the early seventies.Ninety five cents. SR:But,he's telling me these nations...He said he's going to get rid of these folks if they don't...if they don't worship him the proper way he say he going to get rid of them. JH:And look how long they had it.It was originally ninety five cents.(Now)Two ninety five.They've been waiting(Sun Ra starts laughing)all this time. SR:(Laughing)Sitting up there waiting for us. Jﬁzsitting right there all this time waiting for you._ SR:It's amazing. SR:See,that's what I'm talking about.Now,the thing about it that I came here and called up the one place that was going to close in fifteen minutes or something.I told Carl."Don't wait." Oh,this is something else.But,that's very inspiring to me when things happen like that.when they say seek and you shall find. PH:You seeked.(Laughs) SR:Anything that I want,you know,the Creator will fix it up where I can get it.That's another number I want.See,Michael(Ray)? (Michael Ray has just entered the room)Peter and them couldn't find it.I told Carl,bring me the phone book and I'll point to the store(and)I say,"Ca1l that store so you can get that song for me and get trees,too."And Carl called up,he said,FThey say they got it."(laughs)He shook up for the day. V’ JH:Now,look how long they had it.It was,like,originally ninety’ five %ents,(Now)Two ninety five.It's been there fifteen years or something,waiting. ‘ Michael Ray;Yeah,that's pretty cheap. SR:Yeah,well,I can't escape it,you know. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds....November 11,1986 Peter Hinds:So,how are you doing? Sun Ra:Pretty good. PH::How was Phil Alvin the other night? SR:You saw Phil Alvin? J PH:No.How was that? SR:Oh,that was nice. m PH:What happenend? I SR:Well,we didn't have too many people.we might have had a hun- dred or a hundred and fifty.Anyway,we was in a big place,The Trocadero.And that was the response for that unintelligible. But last night Fela played there and he had a packed house. PH:Oh,really.Maybe they didn't get out the advertising. SR:No,he didn't have too much advertising'cause fred,the trumpet player,didn't even know he was in town.I wouldn't have known it myself,either,if somebody hadn't sent me a poster.I would not have known.It,seemingly,didn‘t get too much advertisement.Or something.I don't know.He(Fela)had a packed house.I'm looking at this that basically he had musicians who are amateurs and nobody in there is really a professional,you might say.But they are devoted to him and that's something to see.But i was just thinking that it's something where people patronize ameteurs more than they do professional masters here in America so that's very discouraging for me.Because I'm talking about survival of the p1anet.Something even deeper than that... but I don't know behind that circumstances.Because I'm a scholar and I like to study(and)I'm almost at the point of giving up this band to study.'Cause if they not going to listen,why should I be out there? V PH:What,have you had some problems or something like that lately? .1 SR:Well,I mean...after years of doing things...if I see some- body who come up who,who already a millionaire and making money . J and packed houses then that's not too encouraging to me.As far» as people supporting something that's really for their own ben- efit.But what I'm doing is for everybody's benefit on the planet ‘cause it's in serious trouble and I'm not really in the serious troub1e.The planet is.'Cause i never wanted to be a part of it anyway.And I pulled out away from it and now my fear is up for what's happening to people.I'm utterly amazed.It's unbelievable.‘ ’And they headed down to worse conditions.I mean conditions of the disease and this...it's bad.Economic problems.It's terrible. Seems to be unsolvable.in a sense.If people knew what.I know and actually supported me I'd feel something and really teach them the proper way about the creator and about things and how to get rid of AIDS.How to get rid of...I know a lot of things but...they don't care nothing about me. PH:well,once again,it's just getting the word out about you and giving people a chance(to hear you),you know.You know,sometimes they just have a hard time hearing about you. SR:I say but they never gave me a chance.I've given them a chance. PH:That's true.Did you get the little package I sent to you? SR:I got it today.I think it's the same one.well,are you sending more covers for the LP?I mean,for the... PH:Yeah,I did.Did you open it up? SR:No,I didn't.l been so busy trying to analyze the situation as to what to do. PH:well,is it the little white package?That's what I'm talking about.Little white box I sent to you.Do you see it around there? SR:0h,yes.I saw this,Danny(Thompson)opened up a box and I saw’ some things.Yeah,I had them in my hand.I had the cassette.Two cassettes,I think. PH:Video cassettes. SR:well,I though it was a regular cassette,too. PH:well,I sent two cassettes.Regular cassettes. SR:That video cassette,I don't have nothing to play it on because Danny(Thompson)got it over at his girlfriend's house.I'm going to have to get my own thing,you know. PH:Yeah.See,I made,John and I made copies ontonthose are VHS I video cassettes. SR:I'1l wait for the BETA? PH:Not the BETA.I gave you BETA's when you were out here and the ones I sent you.are VHS so those are ones that Danny can play on his machine.The one he has right now. ‘ ’ 10 SR:The one his girlfriend got.He went over to his girlfriend's house and I'm getting...well,I'm getting upset about things that actually,see,if I have it's about business and doing things(but) he got it over there where it's a dead end. PH:0h,that's too bad. SR:Unintelligible over here,and it would be over there.He going two ways. PH:I thought it would be set up and I thought... SR:That's right,well,he got it over there.It's been over there a week now and I can't look at no VHS or nothing.He got it over‘ there. PH:Oh,that's too bad. SR:I'm going to have to get one of my own.That's what I'm talking about.A personal and spiritual plane come here and people be,they be deviating and going two ways.And that's the reason this planet is in the trouble it's in because if they would be really listen to a spiritual master they can get out of there.They got in it by not listening to one with vision enough to see and the equation, or something to see unintelligible and humanity can get out of this is quite easy.But,you know,since I'm not a minister(or) any- thing like that,it gets increasingly difficult for me'cause I don't make much money like,for instance,like out there(San Fran- cisco)that something like that out there where he(Ness Aquino. Owner of The Mabuhay Gardens)owes me five hundred dollars.Al1 that kind of thing.That's not encouraging. PH:That is discouraging...But,I just wanted to say about the tape;those two video tapes...those are,like,master tapes that I sent to you so if could...you should keep a look out on those tapes'cause one tape has Take Me To Your Leader from the Mabuhay and it also has,we made a copy of your performance at the Chicago Jazz Festival and then also your performance on Saturday Night Live also.So that's all put together real nice and then the other tape,the second video tape has some rare performances Coleman Hawkins,Lionel Hampton,some reaaly far out things by him.Duke E1lington.Count Basie.It's got Bessie Smith with Fletcher Hender- son's Orchestra and some things we've managed to dig up and locate,you know,anﬂ copied them off. SR:I'm going to listen to it but,as I say,a lot of folks unintelligible against me ever since I've unintelligible this planet.And,in a sense,they're afraid of me.I don't know why.They afraid I could break their hold on humanity and they always ‘ putting problems in my way.I got a problem with Ronald(wilson). 11 PH:0h,what's goingQon with that? SR:Maybe you should find a way to get him away from me or have his family...well...I don't really know.The other night he was... you know,we be on the road and we'd been out about...he was over there on Danny's(Thompson)case and pulled a knife out on him and all that kind of thing.Totally inconsistent,you know. PH:Sun Ra,I'm having a hard time hearing you. SR:I say he was threatening Danny(Thompson). PH:He was what? SR:Threatening him. PH:what was he upset about? SR:He was...we was getting ready...a friend,a white friend of mine,Bill(Sebastien),the one that made the,you know,the unin- telligible machine...the space commander.You know,the instrument that it makes no sound,it makes colors. PH:Oh yeah. SR:Since I was up there in Boston I preferred to go over to his house where he's staying.Save moneY,(that's)one thing and then I'd be up there with him.and Ronald(wilson)didn't want to go. He tell me he want to stay in a hotel and...but Danny(Thompson) hadn't paid anybody off of that.He(Rw)wanted his money and all that.He went so far as to say I'll just take all the payroll. Things like that in front of the band.I don't know...he's going through some kind of thing that's not too good and Bill has done a lot to help us so that was really shocking to him to hear that about the band.I was telling him,well,we should go to Bill's house.you know.So one night we was getting ready to leave,we was going to play this place a second night then we was...it was easy to do that,you know,but he didn't want to it.He's talking about, we1l,we trying to treat him like a child and all that.I never had no dissension in my band.Arguments and things like that so really...that's it for him as far as I'm concerned'cause I'm doing something too important to have somebody come up and not appreciate it and be talking other things,you know.Then he went on and said that I was selfish when he first met me and still selfish.I have never been selfish with nobody.In fact,I'm not being selfish with him.He's staying in my house.He don't pay no rent here or nothing like that.He's staying in Danny's room. In Danny's bed and Danny be over there to his girlfriend's house all the time and then to threaten Danny.You stay at somebody's house in somebody's bed and to dare to threaten them and talk 12 about them and all that kind of stuff,it's ridiculous.It doesn't fit in.I don't know what's wrong with him.The best thing for him is to come back there(San Francisco). PH:Maybe he needs to come back and take a little vacation or something,I don't know. . SR:He goes up there in Boston(and)he ran into serious trouble. You know,when the owner of the place where I was playing heard that he had done those threatening things the next night when we played there it was about ten people there to eliminate him. PH:what do you mean by eliminate? SR:I mean he be pushing up daisies. PH:0h. SR:That serious.But they don't play up here on the East Coast. And the owners up here don't like...and since he's threatened Danny,they will unintelligible,maybe he might do it in a place (the nightclub)(and)continue the argument.So they had people there...to avoid that. PH:Well,maybe he just had...I hope he just had a bad day,you might say. SR:He(the owner)had his dumpster in the back.You know what that is,don't you? PH:Wel1,yeah.(1aughs) SR:That's how serious it was.Because they don't,they don't play up here on the East Coast.They don't like for to have arguments in their places.Don't_you know the place could get closed down? It's serious,you know.Antagonize...so he's made some enemies up here and I don't know how far they will go to contain it.what they did say is they don't unintelligib1e,you know,so he's just a tired old man and we think he's kind of...‘cause I didn't let him play the first set. PH:0h,really? SR:Yeah.He(the club owner)didn't want Danny,either.I will not have,I don't like the arguments and things like that so Danny really wasn't responsible,(he)hadn't done anything unintelligible the manager.And then Ronald went(said) don't be sending nobody to tell me nothing like that.I want to talk to you(Sun Ra) after...I don't have time to be talking to you because Danny has the money,he's the manager so you supposed to respect him. 13 He went(said),I don't want to be treated like a child and un- intelligible.He went out.well,I say,you don't run this band.You can't be telling me,as a leader you can't be telling me what to do.Because you don't do that to 1eaders.You do what the leader said.You don't be telling leaders do this and do that.Now,that may unintelligible a leader to leader.See,l can't have that.I say I'm not Reverend King or none of them other people who came along who had people to tell them what they wanted to do but I say you ain't paying me nothing and therefore you shouldn't be saying those things to me. PH:well,it seems like Ronald might need a break or something,you know. ’ SR:I think he should come back there. PH:That might be good. SR:Maybe you could tell his family or something that...up here... he's not too well liked.He's made a few enemies.Should get him away from up here untill he gets himself together.I don't want nothing to happen to him. PH:Well,that's too bad to hear about that. SR:It is.But in the music world today you can't get anywhere being belligerent. PH:0h,that's so true. SR:That's out.I heard that in Los Angeles some...some people supposed to perform...and they supposed to but they paid them. six thousand dollars not to.Some group.They paid this person that they felt unpleasant(to)them six thousand dollars not to perform.So it's coming down to a place where a person play ever so much horn and all that and if they acting anti—social,anti- leader and they're to a point with a group they not going to be playing'cause they not going to stand for it.The system can't afford to have those kind of people doing(that).They got too many troubles.Everybody have to learn how to cooperate,now.America,in particular,got so many troubles,it's ridiculous. PH:Yeah,you're not kidding. SR:They're not liked in the rest of the world.and it's because they're proud.That goes for the black ones and the white ones. They so proud untill the world has turned against them because of their pride. PH:Yeah,that's true. 14 SR:Pride rides before a fall.So,then the black ones here are proud and the white ones are proud.Either ones who are poor, really,are proud and that ain't no good'cause you can't make no friends being proud.You can't do that.You make friends by being warm,you know,and by not being poor towards them.So,you know,it's a big crisis in America.You got hate groups,anti-black groups.One more springing up in Philadelphia and in the whole United States.That doesn't make me feel too good being here,too. PH:What's happening with Europe and Egypt? SR:we leaving next week. PH:what date? SR:That's what I don't know yet.what date do they send the tickets over.They don't like have...get the tickets from here. The tickets come from overseas.That's the part I don't like too well.But,you know,they be trying to save money'cause I'd have to pay for those tickets if,well,unless it's otherwise stipu- lated.And so,therefore,they send economy tickets.They can do that from Europe from some kind of way.Economy tickets.So,maybe they buy the tickets...a month ahead or something like that.I don't have the money to do it so this way the tickets,they always come in.But,you know,sometimes they come in the day before.Sometimes they mail them.I don't like that part.But the point of it;that we will be going.And the first place we'll play will be Paris.I thought we was going to play in Germany only because we got a German booking agent.But we playing in Paris. PH:And what day is that? SR:The twentieth and twenty first. Conversation continues in srr nineteen,page five.The date that appears in srr nineteen is incorrect.The correct date is November '10.1986. 15 Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...August l2,l986....... Peter Hinds:These people are interested in playing when you come to Los Ange1es.And these people being Billy Higgins... Sun Ra:He don't never be there when I'm there,though. PH:Last year he was playing the same night you guys were playing on that saturday.So,unfortunately,he was playing with Horace Tapscott... SR:well,I got to have somebody for San Francisco and they don't have no drummers there.This other drummer I had there.he's one of the money men and so,therefore,he wouldn't go to Los Angeles with us.So,then,we saved a lot of money.I don't need that kind. I got some drummers that's not like that.The main thing is having the money to bring them out there.Last night,I mean,we had three drummers. PH:who was that? SR:Buster Smith and Boogaloo(Marvin Smith,Buster’s Brother)and Thomas Hunter.And I got Eddie here.He plays...Eddie Thomas and I really got four drummers,now.But I just use three...on the weekend. PH:I remember seeing you out here.You brought three drummers out here in '81 or something like that at the Old waldorf.I remember that.Anyway,just getting back to Brendan there,quickly,he was saying,like,Bi1ly Higgins would be available,possib1y in Los Angeles. SR:Yeah,that's just for Los Angeles.what am I going to do about San Francisco? PH:well,my only suggestion is to talk to Ronald(wilson)about it ‘cause he knows all the drummers around. SR:Yeah,but everybody can't fit in the band now.They have to be psychologically balanced on a spiritual plane.Things have changed quite a bit‘cause I'm getting better reaction from people who are spiritually correct.Even like in Philadelphia I have response like never before because I have brought the band down to a spiritually correct point.'Cause if I have anybody in there that is money minded it's not going to reach people.It's come to that stage.It's not going to reach them.I can play ever so much but it's like you got some dirt on the line,(an)electric line and you really got static.And that's the way it is now.If I have anybody on that stage that is not spiritually correct,it's going to be static.People are going to hear it and not hear it.It'll be like water going off a duck's back.It's reached that point.But if you got people up there who are pure minded...it’s fantastic what can happen.I mean,I proved it in Philadelphia.Last time we played 16 here and I'm going to prove it again monday night.All you need is purity among musicians.The ones who are unselfish.The ones who are playing not for the money.Who play because they love it and because they have to.That is what's needed in this band. Anything else up there are wasting my time.I have done it in the past,have some people up there and they good musicians but,the people can't hear their music.But,they able to hear now'cause, like,some people be playing with me(for)some time.I bypassed them now.I'm not going to use them any more. PH:well,it certainly makes a difference when everyone is on the same wavelength,like you say and everyone is working together. SR:well,that makes it more difficult for me,you see,to have the type of musicians I need.It makes it difficult because if I don't have the money to pay them...See,what they'd have to do,like, Billy Bang played with us this weekend. PH:Oh,is that right? SR:Yeah,so,you know,he got his own group.But,he played with us and everybody(was)surprised....we got two nice write ups(reviews) and they said I Shangheid Billy Bang.It was a totally different aspect and I'll be doing that from now on like,I might come out there and bring some more stars that they got their own bands. See,in New York I be doing that.I haven't done it on the west Coast'cause I'm never sure enough of the money to do it'cause they have to give up their thing and to come over with me.I can get Don Cherry.You see,(in)New York I'm able to do that. PH:I'd love to see Don Cherry with you guys.That would be just beautiful. SR:Of course it would.And those are the things I want to do now. I don't want to deal with people who...1ike,I'm trying to help a lot of people and they were very disappointed'cause they had these egos.When they learned a little bit they became very egotistical. PH:Yeah,that's too bad people can't set aside their ego and just go with the music.I mean,they got plenty of time to do their own thing.I would consider that these guys should think of it as an honor to be in the Arkestra and contribute.Just contribute to , your ideas and they got plenty of time to do their own thing. It doesn't make any sense to me why just people can't put themselves into the collective,there.And really support and just help the music forward.whatever the music needs. SR:well,that's where I'm at now.with the world in too dreadful a state to hesitate.It's now or never.It's as simple as that. 17 .. NOT EVERY MUSICIAN CAN FIT IN THIS BAND. YOU KNOW, IT'S METICULOUS. NOTES HAVE TO BE ATTACKED A CERTAIN WAY AND IF THEY DON'T I s1'o|> PLAYING THE SONG. " 'CAUSE IT HAS TO . . . IT'S GOT TO BE PRECISE. SUN RA SEPT. 1986 * ‘ i ‘»-*“’ : ;??‘‘I’‘7*‘~»:’* US’ 5‘ aL'£..%.’A'.V Auglbbﬁws LI . /. C 4; WHERENESS THE bEAuTy Of THOUOHT THE iNfiNjTy THERE NOWHERE is AS NEAR AS I TO ANywHERE EvERywHREE iS THE SAME FROM SOME pOiNT iN THOUOHT :ANd THE SAME pOiNT iS iN SOME THOUOHT FROM EvERywHERE THIS CREATOR WOULD BE ELIMINATING FOLKS THAT BE AGAINST ME. GET RID OF THEM. SO “UNINTELLIGIBLE." THIS IS NOT A PLAY THING. LIKE IN CHICAGO. A DRUMMER PLAYING (WITH) ME NAMED JAMES KING AND HE WAS A WONDERFUL DRUMMER. I'M TELLING YOU HE WAS SOMETHING. BUT MUSICIANS ARE ALWAYS ASKING ME QUESTIONS. THAT'S ONE THING IN CHICAGO. AND ONE DAY WE, ONE MORNING WE (WERE) PLAYING A BIRTHDAY DANCE AT BIRDLAND AND ABOUT TWENTY FIVE MUSICIANS ASKED ME QUESTIONS AFTER PLAYING. THEY WAS ALWAYS ASKING ME QUESTIONS. I SAID SOMETHING AND THE DRUMMER WHO WAS PLAYING WITH US NAMED IAMES KING SAID. “NO. I DIDN'T LIKE." AND THEN THE OTHER MUSICIANS SAID, “MAN, YOU PLAYED WITH THE BAN "§%w§&."§’§ YQUR I.EADE;R. YGU GOT A
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-20
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 21 (February, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-02-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: VVIIEN ANGBS SPEAK mmsanmuawuutxwumurnmm wnwmclwulummlmr ummmwwuuuzlumuns muoluntmmnuummuupwwm. Illllﬂﬂﬂﬂﬂﬁlllﬂ ‘ U-lﬁfdlﬁﬂl! DNWMMﬂ¢ QﬂENm. umsusp av pm ms; 4 r 6; to {j “ T H {I DSIN; : 0-. ’ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Bruce Owens(The Poet) October 3l,1988...One AM...Santa Cruz,California............ Sun Ra:Piano can talk,you know. John Hindsznow about Art Tatum?Did you ever hear that Beautiful Love?! sent you Art Tatum doing Beautiful Love. SR:0h yeah.I used to listen to that.I didn't know the song at that time.I didn't know it had words to anything but it was very nice,you know.You have to,you have to listen to it'cause it's sort of classical in one sense but it's timeless you might say. Victor Young wrote that and he wrote a lot of other beautiful songs.I'm doing a lot of things about for musicians who wrote beautiful things.we got to bring them back.Like Cole Porter, Jerome Kern.They wrote some very beautiful melodies and America didn...
Show moreVVIIEN ANGBS SPEAK mmsanmuawuutxwumurnmm wnwmclwulummlmr ummmwwuuuzlumuns muoluntmmnuummuupwwm. Illllﬂﬂﬂﬂﬂﬁlllﬂ ‘ U-lﬁfdlﬁﬂl! DNWMMﬂ¢ QﬂENm. umsusp av pm ms; 4 r 6; to {j “ T H {I DSIN; : 0-. ’ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Bruce Owens(The Poet) October 3l,1988...One AM...Santa Cruz,California............ Sun Ra:Piano can talk,you know. John Hindsznow about Art Tatum?Did you ever hear that Beautiful Love?! sent you Art Tatum doing Beautiful Love. SR:0h yeah.I used to listen to that.I didn't know the song at that time.I didn't know it had words to anything but it was very nice,you know.You have to,you have to listen to it'cause it's sort of classical in one sense but it's timeless you might say. Victor Young wrote that and he wrote a lot of other beautiful songs.I'm doing a lot of things about for musicians who wrote beautiful things.we got to bring them back.Like Cole Porter, Jerome Kern.They wrote some very beautiful melodies and America didn't awake to how wonderful they were.I'm doing their songs in another way. . JH:Yeah,Beautiful Love.I wasn't aware of it untill you did it and- then I did my homework and found Art Tatum doing it and a few other versions.Beautiful,you know. SR:And Yesterdays.I didn't play it tonight but Yesterdays is one of my favorite songs.Jerome Kern wrote a lot of nice things.I'm putting them over into hot jazz arrangement. Poet:I saw Leadbelly,you know....(laughs) JH:How about Chelsea Bridge? SR:Chelsea Bridge is nice,too. JH:That's wonderful harmonies on that. Poet:This guy(JH)is,like,recording you,man. SR:Yeah. Poet:It's like everything that's being said is,like,being happening on his,1ike,hear that?(Recites poem) SR:Nice.That's just nice.Now,unintelligible talk about the black hole(poem had a reference to black holes)and then the black hole be...it's intriguing.All that out there is intriguing.You know, it's impossible some of the things out there when you think about it.You know,I had this vision about two months ago...was I in Japan or Germany? Poet:A dream? Sr:well,it was like a vision.I was in this...I was up there in the darkness.It was so dark I couldn't see anything and I was walking and I kept on walking then all at once I saw some colors that was nothing like here.It was so red that in the darkness you could see everything but the darkness still there but the colors over there were vibrating so and there were things,I don't know what it was but the colors was something e1se.Now,I had another vision where I saw...I went in a big department store.The department store was so big untill you couldn't see the sides of it.Anyway you look you couldn't see no...just the roof and kinds of things.And I had...it was some socks there that were like...precious jewelry but not like nothing they got here. It was extremely precious and you could put...it would fit any- body.You put it on and it would be like your skin.And they had some pants that was the same thing.It would fit anybody.You'd put it on and you'd be just like a person made out of jewelry. And I said,"You know,I should get this for the band.How much do these stockings(cost)?"And they said two hundred dollars.And I said,"well,I want to see about some pants."They said five hun- dred dollars.Then I came back.(from the vision)But I did say, "where am I?"They said Brazil.I said,"Brazil ain't got nothing like this."Brazil unintelligible.There's nothing like that on planet earth.I had that...so,I seen some things that(are)not in any books.I'm really not describing what I saw because it can't be described because there's no comparison to what they got out there.And I've seen some dancers in space that were like trees. They were so ta11...dancing...dancing.wonderful,you know.Every time I see a poplar tree I think about those dancers.So,some- times,I mean,when I got the band right I be doing those dances I seen up in space with the music.Moving like the wind.Like the wind and like the ocean and that's what I'm doing in my music. I want to be like the ocean and like the wind and like the trees and like the bit s.That's part of nature,you see,And then I saw, §_gj V é:“; ,e . _H%$$ykkHﬁ_ and one day,I think I was in Spain,and it was some grass out there and it was about like that ta11.It was one blade of grass that was doing like this...I took the band...the wind wasn't blowing.I took the band and said,"Look at that,the blade of grass unintelligible."Now,there's no explanation for that.The other blades of grass was just as tall but one was doing like that. (moving back and forth)....we11,I saw that blade of grass.And if we open are eyes we can see things other people can't see.If you speak unintelligible.The unusual speaks to us and say,you know, yes there's something e1se.And whenever a person see the unusual they ready.But if... Poet:Jesus!You look(like)a genie.(Sun Ra and the poet laugh) SR:Well,I had all these experiences.I had some experiences... Poet:what's your name again(joking)?I'm Bruce Owens. SR:Sun Ra.You know,somebody asked me...a lot of people ask me, what's your real name?I say,well,my passport of the United States government got Sun Ra and the Library of Congress they got a card that say where,strange1y enough,his real name is Sun Ra and all the rest of the names are pseudonyms.And this(is in)the Library of Congress. Bruce 0wens:where are you originally from,though? SR:Well,I'm from planet Saturn.But I landed in Birmingham, Alabama.(they both laugh) B0:where? SR:I landed in Birmingham.In the magic city.They had a big sign up there.Magic city.That was Birmingham,Alabama.The magic city. And,in fact,this fellow who was sitting down and wanting to talk (earlier in the evening)was from Birmingham. B0:So how the hell did you get into jazz to begin with,man? Come on,man.There's an original point,man,of conception. SR:I wanted to find out why this planet is like it is.And I felt that people worshiping God that something...that he doesn't re- gard nothing they doing. B0:when did you get free? SR:well,then what happenend is that...they wouldn't teach me about jazz in school.And...when I was a baby in the cradle my people liked Bessie Smith,Clara Smith,Mamie Smith and that's what they were p1aying.But as I grew up I didn't know nothing about that.But,you know,it's in my mind and they were playing Coleman Hawkins,Fletcher Henderson.They's playing all those things.And Ethel waters and then I grew up where I had found I had been listening to some great people and we were staying next door to a house where Bessie Smith(and)everybody stayed in that house.They didn't stay in hotels... B0:where was that house? SR:It was in Birmingham. JH:Do you remember the street?Is the street still there? SR:Yes.Eighth Avenue.Eighth Avenue and Thirty Third Street or something 1ike(that).But,anyway,they was in this house and everybody stayed there that was an entertainer.we was right next door.So then they always gave us passes.So we always went,you know.So I was acquainted with them but I was just seven and eight and nine years old.I didn't know nothing but then I come to find out Ethel Waters was great,Bessie Smith was great.Clara Smith,Mamie Smith...I was right there with all of them.So then that's all that's in me. JH:I wonder if you saw Coleman Hawkins with Mamie Smith... SR:He was with Fletcher Henderson. JH:At that time.That(Mamie Smith)wou1d be earlier then. BO:what age were you conscious? SR:About five,five years old. B0:Really conscious,huh? SR:You can't learn anything in that... B0:I mean,I understand that. SR:But when you poor that means you're elevated from...we1l,you touch the eternal stone...because an ordinary man,he hasn't touched upon,he hasn't touched upon that mysterious thing which inspires him to be musical in words.And poetry is really wonder- ful.I liked...I studied all the English poets.I read Shakespeare. I studied Russian literature,especially...but I didn't know what I was doing.I just liked to read.I read so much in the library.I read all the fiction and I had to jump over into reading auto- biographies and things. JH:what school did you say?That was in your elementary school? SR:This was the public 1ibrary.I was always...and you know(I was) always in school.I was teaching because,see,I make research... teacher give me an assignment.I go there and read more books.I come back to class I know more than the teacher. B0:But if the lineage presents itself to you... SR:lt would be space. BO:It is...will always be but you got to understand something, see?They've broken it down into a chemical process and I am in disagreement with them because I believe...that consciousness... conscious mind...I mean,universities are,like,proclaiming as kind of like a binomial....(????) SR:wel1,we got to deal with the Omniverse now. BO:Heideger said that the poet exists so beings exists so.. SR:Yeah,l'm talking about being.I've reached a stage where life is...to me,1ife only produces dead bodies.I have to judge the tree by the fruit(Bruce Owens starts laughing)...we need some- thing else.Life is...1ife got starving babies and it's got... BO:Here's one for...I was in Alaska and I was,1ike,standing on the docks of Kodiak Island,right?I was looking over...over this mountain,right?This volcanic thing popping up out of the gulf of Alaska.So 1 spoke with the A1euts,right?I drank wine with them and I wrote this poem.In the clear distance I see mountain peaks covered with white shawls an old woman left when they pass from this world into the next. SR:That's nice....We got to go now.Jack(Rich)is here and he's the manager and he got a lot of things to do for tomorrow. B0:So they're in control of you,huh? SR:No.Tomorrow we got to play San Francisco and he flew all the down from New York... BO:I don't give a shit about San Francisco!I'm more curious about talking with you. SR:We11,I enjoyed talking to you. BO:No,because I heard through the grapevine that you're the greatest.In jazz now,you are. SR:Thank you. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...February l4,1986...... Sun Ra:I was talking to Pat Patrick. Peter Hinds:Pat Patrick? SR:Uh huh. PH:what was he saying? SR:we1l,he playing with us...He's played with us the last tour and he's here now.we-going to Harrisburgh(Pennsylvania)tomorrow. PH:Great!He went up to Toronto with you? SR:Yeah,he was there. PH:Good.So you had the two baritones. SR:No,he usually plays bass. PH:Oh,you mean bass guitar? SR:You know.Electric bass. PH:I see. SR:And then he plays...tomorrow he playing the tenor. ' PH:when did you talk to him about coming back and playing? SR:I didn't. PH:He just decided? SR:Yes. PH:That's fantastic.I've never had a chance to see him. SR:Yeah,well,you will now. PH:That's great.I wasn't able to talk with Rona1d(wilson)today. SR:You weren't? PH:No,I called and left a message telling him to call me,very important and maybe he didn't get it or whatever but he...I didn't get the ca1l.what I am going to do tomorrow...I’m going to get up real early and drive to his place(in San Francisco)... SR:well,you probably could...tomorrow's saturday so you still could get the tape.I thought maybe I'd have it,you know,for tom- orrow unintelligible... \ ——:—e*—————:j :ej:j PH:You should have,if everything worked. SR:well,I started to send it by mail but I unintelligible.Just send it by him.He would get it immediately,you know. PH:So we'll go up there and see if we can get in touch with him. we should be able to see him.We're going to drive up about ten o'clock in the morning. SR:Well,I thought you were going to see him last night. PH:No,it would be a chance(because) he was supposed to be playing last night somewhere.I don't know where. SR:Oh,I thought you knew where. PH:No,I didn't.No,he just said he was playing with ...he had to hang up after about two minutes.I really didn't have a chance to talk very long with him at all to find out what was going on with specifics. SR:That was some nice write ups(reviews)you sent. PH:0h yeah.That one from the Bay Area Music Calender with your photo and everyone in the band got a mention.That was very nice. SR:Well,you still didn't get the things from Toronto.I thought you'd have them by then. PH:we1l,Ronald(wilson)has those. SR:Yeah,he got that from the other places,too. PH:Yeah,so that's what I'm hoping(for)tomorrow.I‘11 be able to see him and I probably will.He'll probably be at home at ten in the morning. SR:well,the Ronald thing is fantastic,you know.They put every- thing I was saying in there and something,something unintellig- gible.I got a letter from France today,too. PH;From France? SR:And it was astounding,you know....I told you about that when we come over there. PH:Oh yeah.Now,is this the proposal? SR:Yeah.they talking about giving me...charge of all the arts. The whole thing.The painters,the sculptors,the unintelligible. The top level of musicians and whatever.It's fantastic letter, you know.I wasn't expecting all that.I be in charge of all the arts in France. PH:Now,is this set for May or_something like that? SR:That's the unintelligible of culture,the government. PH:So what's their timetable? SR:well,they talking about we being there three years.This project I have is the twenty first century.Twenty first century creativity for France.I couldn't do it in America,in a sense. I was trying and people like me here but it's better for me,I found that it's better for a government to back me‘up because they can get all the things I need,you know.Synthesizers,this and that and the other and I need some musicians to work with. Over here they be so uptight with different things(that)they can't come to rehearsals like that but this is a case where the government will furnish me musicians. PH:Did you see the article?That(what Sun Ra's talking about) sort of ties in with that article I sent you... - SR:Yes. Pﬂinbout Pierre Boulez. SR:0h yeah,that's in France.Yeah,they was talking-about that but, evident1y,that wasn't exactly what they wanted.They want to deal with compositions of unintelligible of natural musicians(with)- electronics...what they need is,real1y.a composer and arranger. That's the way I fit in'cause I got so many compositions that I utterly astound myself when I be listening to some things I got. That's what 1've’heen listening(to)today.Fantastic sounds and, you know,it's a big job. Pﬂzcertainly is. SR:But I can do it.I just have to have,I have to have me about two interpreters...it's~incredible.But I'm very shocked myself that a government would be that interested in what I'm doing and talking about... PH:That's commendable. SR:I don't think that's ever been done before.Particularly'cause I'm from another country. PH:Yeah,that's unusual. SR:Right. PH:I know the government gave Mr.Boulez quite a bit to work with(IRCAM)there in that institute but he's French of course... So this is a different... SR:We1l,he don't the have American hot jazz.I got that.And France likes the hot jazz.Some kind of way I be blocked,you see. Like,they was supposed to put that record out about,you know. the(Phil)Alvin of the Blasters. PH:Yeah,what's happening with that? SR:They haven't put it out yet. PH:I know. SR:So,you know,(it's)blocked,you know.Al1 kind of blocks and that's really a good record.It really would make him unintelli- . gible,hesitating and all that so it's best for me is to just go on to France then I...unintelligib1e...keep on moving.Here it's kind of difficult here.Like Bill Cosby,he had all them folks on i there and he right here in Philadelphia.He knows about me and he didn't include me in that(a concert with Art Blakey and others) but that's all right.I don't need him. PH:I missed that,unfortunately. SR:I just need myself.I didn't know nothing about it but I see Art Blakey on there and a lot of other people.But unintelligible,p I don't need him.If I have a government behind me I don't need his kind.And it's good for me and...and then I would have Ger- many,if I could go to Europe I'd have all of these European countries backing me up.Well,I could teach jazz musicians over there about doing that'cause that's something they can't do.Al— ways tried to imitate me but you can't do that.So,it‘s time,you know,I’m ready to go now but I got a few more dates... PH:You going to play New York... SR:I play there on the fourth....and Basil....playing the‘ University of Illinois....I got a few more dates...supposed to be with John Cage but,you know,they move it to June and I don't like that too well.I reckon they move it to where the weather...is better'cause it's supposed to be out in Coney Island.So,things like John Cage is very pleased to be with me. But I was thinking about making a record with him and I just got to get his number. PH:with John Cage?That would be interesting.Are you going to get together and talk_with him a little bit before? SR:well,I'm going to talk to him and we just go to a studio... and make it. PH:And do something. SR:That would be fantastic. PH§That would be. 4! . SR:I was thinking about it and I'm going to put it into action. PH:well,he's right in Manhattan,isn't he?.' SR:Yeah,he's somewhere there.I reckon I can find out from this fellow who's...some kind of arts club.I can find out from him how to get in touch with him.I think he's be interested.I am.’ Even if I put it out on cassette or somewhere,he and I discussing music.It still would sell. I PH:Oh yeah.That's right.That would be quite a meeting of the minds,I tell you. » SR:why,we could make a video together.That would be interesting. -well,it's a lot of possibilities I can unintelligible do that. ‘Cause I've reached on past just the...you know,the ordinary. That's out.Some of these tapes I got just rehearsing,you'd be astounded.Just rehearsing. I PH:Some things you've been working on recently? SR:No,I'm talking about through the years.Now,what I do,I just reach in and get a tape,a cassette...well,I finally get around to them...and I got so many things that(are)really unintelli- gible...So that's what I'm going to do,you see.And,like,I need a outlet or something else'cause a government could do it. Like,I could take my tapes over there and acquaint them to what I've been doing for years.Like conservatories and different things.The whole thing would be a whole different image for France.It ought to be America but then what can I do? > It's very.......America.....well,it's got too many conflicts of interest,I suppose.well,it will come over here from Europe. But they going to give me a villa they say and I won't have to pay no rent and then I'll be lecturing at the conservatories. Have the whole thing,you know. - PH:That'll be amazing. Sk:Fantastic. PH:That is.You'll have access to some really beautiful pianos. SR:Oh,yeah.That's one thing,yes,I give concerts with twenty or fifty pianos...I got so many ideas I just need the outlet. PH:Have you ever done a concert,(with)maybe,two pianos back to back...where you can play two at once? SR:we were supposed to do that in Los Angeles once at a concert there at the University of California.You know,sometimes fate steps...what happened is the night before,I think,Cannonball Adderley or somebody p1ayed...the night before some teenagers went up and they was trying to get down into the something up there.The air vent‘or something and they triggered the fire (alarm).water,it wet the space all up.The firemen came and \ 10 II turned all the electricity off.They had to cancel the concert. So we came the nextynight(and)they were afraid to turn the electricity on.They had these two long pianos.that Paul Bley was going to be at one and I was going to be at the other.You know,but fate intervened.Shelley Manne was there...about five or six more white musicians.That would have been something.It didn't happen.we had these two 1ong,I mean these was some long pianos.Going to be back to back.So something stepped in and stopped it.It's better for me to be somewhere where I won't be blocked.I don't know why jazz has been so severly blocked in / America.I can't understand it.They getting ready to put up a rock palace in Philadelphia.The home of rock.Rock and roll. But they putting up nothing for jazz.(chuckles)So I can see that jazz is being just dismissed.Particularly like big bands, you know.which I really like big bands.They tend to neglect that particular thing.No need for me to be fighting it by my- self.So I can go over there and I can have what I,want.And what I need,too. PH:Speaking of pianos,included in some of the stuff we sent you, is.a little information regarding a sustain peddle you can buy for your(Yamaha)DX-7.That will give you a piano action with your feet.I think it's about twenty five dollars. . SR:Really? PH"Yeah.So that will give you a real true piano setup,you know. SR:They got it up here so you can find out wether they got it there. , V PH:0K.You take a look at the literature and John's underlined it in yellow so take a look at that and you'll find the description that'll tell you about it and we'll check it out and see who's got one out here. . a ' ‘ SR:wel1,I hope he(Ronald wilson)give you that money so I can get that together.. a _‘ ‘ ‘ PH:Yeah,I hope so too.You know,I'll go up there tomorrow morning. what time are you leaving tomorrow? SR:I'm leaving at six in the morning. PH:OK.I'll call you sunday.You'll be back sunday what time? SR:I'l1 be back,well,we...we1l,I'll be back about twelve noon or maybe before then'cause we leaving at midnight.It‘s not but a two hour or three hour drive so we'll just gauge itself like that.You can also find out how much is a TX-7 cost.The module. I can get a thousand effects with this.Already got the cassette to go in there.Some kind of way you put together the-cassette tape recorder,which I got a computer cassette recorder and you. plug that into the module and someway you get one thousand(and) one effects.But up here it costs about six hundred dolars or something like that.If you could investigate how much you could get it for there. PH:0K.I'll check that out. PH:Is anyone else playing in the band?Have you added anybody else to these dates?You mentioned Boogaloo on drums... Sun Ra:His name is Marvin Smith....well,you know,he stayed in Rome for some time in Italy.But he's really...you'll be very pleased with him.He's got a sense of humor,too.It's too bad, you know,I should have sent for him when I was out there(SF). I started to...but I didn't.Unintelligible didn't have any drums.He left his drums...but I'm telling you,he really is playing. _ ‘ PH:And he fits in well with all the Fletcher Henderson things and all that? SR:He fits in with everything.And then he's good...he takes wonderful solos and he swings and that's what I need.He got a sense of humor,too.Just one thing he's worried about.The fellas be telling him about the Ra fire.(chuckles)It was the funniest thing.He said,"we1l,I want to see what it is.Whether I like it. (1aughs)."They said,"You don't want no Ra fire."So finally, Tyrone(Hill)did something and when he(Marvin Smith)saw what I was telling Tyrone he said,"Well,I don't like the Ra fire.I don't want it."(laughs)It was really funny.It was so amusing. PH:And is John Ore playing bass? SR:Yes.That's right,he didn't come out there(SF)with us. PH:No,it was just Tyler(Mitchell). I SR:He(John Ore)rea1ly playing.The next time we'll see what we can 'do.Ronald was talking about some fellow out there that wanted to come and play.But he never wrote to us.... PH:Sounds very promising now.Sounds like things are coming to—’ gether for that France project. SR:well,music needs to be out there to the full unintelligible, you know.It hasn't been there because musicians have difficulty. They have,you know,financial problems and this and that.Some—~ times they get it,sometimes they can't.But over there they'd be getting a salary and I could have fifty pieces in my band. 12 SR:There's a lot of musicians be stealing-my ideas and making people think it's them but if I got unintelligible musicians to work with everybody will know where it's coming from....Then the music will be written and I will copyright everything to put it on the world market. ‘ And that way I be having,not only would I be teaching the music— , ians in France but the ones all over the world'cause they would 1 get the sheet music,analyze and study.well,that's what I have to 7 do next. PH:Any new records coming out? SR:I'm going to work on it.There are some records coming from England.I don't think you got that record. PH:I found that one on Recommended. SR:what was the name of that? PH:The Cosmo-Sun Connection. SR:Yeah,I think that may be it.That's got my picture on there. Yeah,that's the one.That's a nice album.I don't have one myself. PH:I managed to find one copy up in San Francisco.They got it in on import.And I also managed to get a copy of the thing in Atlanta,Georgia with the organ. SR:Oh,really.How'd you like that? PH:The recording was,you know,fair,but the music was ...I mean that is fantastic. SR:That is a big organ. PH:That is incrediblellt really is.The percussion,the gongs(and) the drums. SR:Yeah,you know,June just heard that last week.(She)said she put it on(and)she was startled,you know. PH:Oh,it is.It is truly incredible. SR:And the longer you listen to that the more sounds...The organ had so many sounds.Layers of sounds.So it's out there and now they know...it's really,I got so much to offer.It runs over into the fantastic but if I had a big band to work with I'd have to need a lot of copyists,you know,where they could write off these things I tell them.Going to need machines,too.The kind that,the computer machines(that will)type out the music.Get(it)out to the world.I'm ready for that,now. PH:Yeah,that‘s right.But that organ extravaganza is amazing. SR:You got the right name to that.Hiroshima. PH:Did you record that on your videotape machine? SR:No,it was recorded...well Danny(Thompson)does have a video tape.Some kind of digital cassette recorder.That's something new. And then it was taken off of that.I think it was put on directly from the cassette. PH:Oh,I see.'Cause it could have sounded a little bit better. SR:Right.That is why.He(DT)didn't have no original,he had a copy of the digital cassette.So,but the feeling is there.It could have been more...something could have been done to it.But,then,I just wanted it out there. PH:Yeah.It goes for about fifteen minutes and fades out.How long did you actually play with that organ? SR:I played a lot longer.But,you know,by being an organ I cut it kind of short to put it out because the fact of the grooves.The vibrations might make it jump...(Speaking of the limitations of vinyl records) PH:That's right.I was just...I heard that and I thought there's got to be more to that and I'm glad to hear there is. SR:we1l,if it's on tape,you see,it doesn't matter too much about, maybe a little wow or something,but when you put it on disc you got to watch those grooves'cause it will jump over...organs are very hard to record.I mean to take off(To transfer from tape to disc in the mastering process).So he had,he had to make that about five or six times'cause he wasn't satisfied when he was unintelligible. PH:You can get only get,like,twenty minutes on a side of a record or SO00! SR:That's right. PH:And that organ was making such incredible sounds(Especially the low frequencies which can cause problems in the disc master- ing),you know. SR:The grooves are far apart on there,you see,and that's why he had to cut it short. PH:Yeah,that's right.I understand.So I was just hoping,I thought there's got to be more so I'm glad there is more on the tape. SR:Oh yeah,well,I had quite a bit of it.In fact,I'm going to have to put the video out that Danny has where I'm playing the organ. PH:You really should.Sight and sound would be... SR:Lack of money is what's been barring me.what I need is like an unintelligible circuit of people who are interseted in what I'm doing.I have to do that and.then it won't have to be just on the regular market.It can be part of an unintelligible jazz club or fan club,whatever it is.It would be better for me. PH:You should do a mail order kind of thing and put out a little catalogue and when you get orders you can just make... SR:I can do that,too.That's what they be doing on TV.Maybe two weeks to delivery or something like that so what they do is they get the orders and then they fix them up. PH:That's right. SR:Yeah,that's a good idea. PH:'Cause when you do your concerts you can bring along your albums but also bring along a flyer to hand out to everybody indicating what's available in records,tapes or videos and people could send in and when you get your orders you can just make them up and all that money would just be coming directly, you know,into your mailbox. SR:It's a big project. PH:I know Danny is very pusy,it would be one more thing to keep him more than busy.You'd have to have a little assistance,you know. SR:You'd have to have a lot of assistance because it's so big that Danny gets nervous,he can't keep up because it's stretching out even more.He was really startled by the French thing.He didn't think it would go out that big.Unintel1igible where you dealing with unintelligible,politicians and governments.That's another story,you know.You got to learn something about French, too.Need interpreters,you know.It's amazing.I'm very happy about it,excited about it.So I can see the potentia1s.The potentials are so vast.It's wonderful to think that the government would be interested where I couldn't get commercial folks interested. 15 r::- .._;‘;;;:;-x _‘-v ‘-.,.:i»£;;L'_’_ ..L\‘~.“:_.. 2.22..‘ ..-‘H-‘ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.............. 16’1986000OOOOOOIIIIOOOOOOOOOO0000000000000OOOOOOOOOIOOO Sun Ra:I'm not asking America for anything.They don't owe me anything.I'm not mad with anybody.It's just too bad that all these years they missed what I'm doing.Even with the records I put out,the other things I didn't put out are more valuable. John Hinds:Yes.Some of those tapes are probably getting quite old and maybe brittle. SR:They might just not ever be of use to this planet. JH:They might tend to fall apart which would be horrible. SR:That's right.well,yes that is possible.So,see,if the French government have it,they'1l preserve it and they will re—copy it and they can give me the machines to work with.I need all that at this point,you see.I need the best equipment they have. Recorders and,like this fellow,he was telling me about(that)he got all that.So,he got everything to work with so he's rich and I'm a pauper so I don't see why a pauper should go and talk to a rich person.It would discourage me.And here's somebody(that) got everything to work with and I have nothing to work with. I wouldn't want to be discouraged. JH:All I know is he(Pierre Boulez)really showed admiration for you and had heard of you and I said(that)you were going to be in France and he said,"Oh,marvelous,if he would just stop by." ‘Cause he doesn't know where you'd be. SR:I'm dealing with the Creator of the Universe.It's not proper to open peoples minds up to something which they probably could never(be)interested by.Not any more.They dealing with God and other things and devils and stuff.I'm not dealing with that. So,then,my time can no longer be wasted with those who(are) not going to make it.They might make it on the Earth plane and be accepted by the whole world but they not accepted by the Creator I worship.And I'm not going to unintelligible anybody.It's very difficult to reach him.It's more difficult than reaching the President of the United States.He's very exclusive.Now,he got a lot of other things out there to interest people because of their limited vision and they still over there untill they get bored with it and want something better.So most people are satisfied with money or sex or dope or power or ego and therefore they can't reach the Creator I'm talking about.Because it's another story.You take,like,Pat(Patrick).when we got ready to play last night(February 15,l986.Harrisburgh,Pennsy1vania)he couldn't move his...some fingers and thumb because unintelligible be able to play.Because something has happened,that he slepped on his arm on the bus going down there...and so...he be saying,"See,I can't, I can't move this thumb and finger here.My arm hasn't awakened yet,seemingly?So then I had to heal him instantly by taking his sense in me going out there unintelligible to see who is no consequence to me or the Creator.It's a waste of my energy and time.But,then,it's like the case of Marshall(Allen)when he was in 0akland.0ne morning he couldn't walk.He was crawling and I had to go in there and say a few words to him)and)he stood up and unintelligible walked.Now,I'm dealing with a force that is so powerful I can even raise the dead.Now,he(Marshall) didn't go out there telling people things like that and doing things for people.I can't do it'cause I'm so busy,in a sense.to do things like that.I'm not a phony,I'm totally sincere.I can save this whole planet but,the point of it,if people are selfish(then) it's not right for me to save selfish people.I'm,even now,get- ting more restrictive as to the musicians I use.I don't want nobody selfish in this band.I don't care how much they play.It's bad for me to have a man down here,a woman,anybody who is sel— fish because it discourages me.And I don't need no discourage- ment.So then I got to have people around me who are,well,this band will be a...be more unusual because I have to be very care- ful as(to)who I'm using in this band'cause if they got the slightest degree of selfishness it's going to discourage me and make me feel that man is not worth saving.So,therefore,I know that some people are unselfish.I have to unintelligible by that; hand in mine.So he played.So,you see,with that kind of power it's no now.And therefore,the whole picture of this band is getting ready to change.It's getting ready to change.And It's getting ready to be more exclusive than ever.It will be the most exclusive organization that is ever been on planet Earth. Jﬂzwhen did you first come into contact with cosmic forces?Back in Chicago?Space beings or were you contacted in any kind of way sometime? SR:well,actually,I was ignorant of certain things.I didn't know myself.when I first...when I was a child I felt I came from some- where else and I was happy.I was inexpressively happy and I was pure and I thought everybody else was on this planet.So that put me at the mercy of some forces that were not friendly and they wasn't pure and they was antogonistic at me from the day I arrived on this planet.It was antagonistic and it did everything, even before I had a band,to discourage me unintelligib1e,it did everything it possibly aould to make me think I was nothing and I couldn't do anything(and)to make me feel some kind of shame. To flop,flop,flop.And I had that before I had a band.So...I was just listening to it and it wasn't just the white race because they didn't know nothing about me.It came from the black race (and)it came sometime from my grandmother.lt came,a lot of times, just unforeseen and I didn't know what the attack was.But I had this idea that I came from somewhere else and I was happy inside that I had come from somewhere else.And it stayed with me.It wasn't just a dream.It's from nowhere I came from,it's with me and it's still with me and I express that in my music.So,really, they couldn't do nothing to me'cause I've seen something they don't know nothing about and I express that in my music.So,the world can feel it and see it and they can be a part of it.But I'm not mad with anybody and I'm not against anybody because of their race,creed or color.It does not interest me at all because I can't...I was sent here to help this planet and that's it.That I have to do that and if I can't do it here I'll do it somewhere else. JH:So you were saying your grandmother was against that,too? SR:well,she just against me personally or something.You know, it was these forces.They used people who is supposed to be friends.But I understand a little better now that it wasn't them.It was some force that was determined to block me and to keep me from being succesful(and)to make me be ordinary(and)to make me seem like what I was doing was of no worth and it was trying to do that through the years.And when I tell some people about the rest of it they would say(I)have a good imagination. But it wasn't my imagination.It's not my imagination that I came from somewhere else.But,to discuss that with People is ridicu- lous.I don't have to discuss anything else with them about that. I'm not asking them to believe.I don't care.It's of no conse-* quence because the people on this planet...they have no unin- telligible and never have been to this power I'm talking about. So it does not care whether they believe or not.It does not care because it's eternal and their thing is here today and gone to- morrow.So why should somebody come to me?Unintelligible care about here today and gone tomorrow people.Actually,it doesn't have to.Because it's greater than men.And if they want something they have to reach up and recognize that power.It is not going to recognize them because they too small and too insignificant. well,their ego got them where they think they unintelligible. Those kind of people that went up in smoke shows that this power does not care.It does not care.Because they got to be precise and disciplined down here.And they got to recognize someone that's for them that was sent to help them and got the authority to help them.If they don't do that,well,here today and gon tomorrow.It's a very serious situation. JH:Yeah,they don't realize that.They don't see it.I don't know why they want to keep dying over and over again. SR:Well,it's because they refuse to recognize anything else better. JH:why they just want to keep dying and dying and dying,you know? SR:we1l,they got to be sincere.That's what it takes.Sincerity. I've had a lot of people write me who are sincere.From the deep south mostly.white people. JH:That's something. 18 SR:I haven't had any black ones from down there write me.I've got some of them from South Carolina,Atlanta,Georgia and Alabama. They're from white people who are supposed to be prejudiced and supposed to be the worst of discriminators.I can say that I've reached the hearts of those southerners.In Atlanta,Georgia they want me to come hack every year at new years and play their.So, and I got the keys to the city of Atlanta,Georgia so...what can I say? JH:George Wallace gave you recognition. SR:Right. PH:(Mayor)Andrew Young in Atlanta. SR:He never showed up.The only time I met him was in Nigeria and he was at the American Embassy and he was,we was invited to this party so he was shaking everyone's hand.when I came up...there was a white ambassador(and)with his elbow and touched Andrew Young on the side and said,"This is Sun Ra."So he didn't even know. Jﬂzﬂe didn't even know you. SR:He didn't even know who I was.0r maybe he never heard of me but the white ambassador did know me and pushed him in his side and said,This is Sun Ra."So that lets you know the state of affairs. JH:he had to cue him to let him know who you were.That's pretty ignorant of Andrew Young. SR:well,it's just like the black race(is)in some kind of condi- tion o£...they have no status with the Creator I'm talking about. They don't exist.Therefore,they don't know things.They just like they're dead.They don't...know things.They try hard.I give them credit and they're very zealous in their religions and all that but it's not recognized by the Creator that I'm worshiping.It's a big joke to him.I can't go and tell them that'cause they try hard.But...it‘s not going to do them any good,unfortunately. JH:well,it's kind of a dead end,you know.The road they're on £8000 SR:Hell,as long as...they're happy with it.It's like a person you don't know.They can be very happy with it... Continued in issue twenty two of Sun Ra Research. 19 A muzmuaururmunulnnmuu wsmmwuuunuv/mmwmnImwur1ucuIImummr SIMIIUNR wm-Iunnnmnulnouwrnuur mmmummun nmm urusnuuluunz nmnmmu ssrlmmamzauammmaumus mnannlnusuu muruunnslnxamrluunz wurIn=mnwIIuun:mmuu/nlzmw Irrtmunrlnamnamxman-mama Iimvmmwuwnmmwuumummnmmlwnmuummsnmms Anuwmmasmav/Asmamwmmmmuuurwmmus Iaumummmummnuum I'M NOT A PHONY, I'M TOTALLY SINCERE. I cAN sAvE THIs wHOI.E PI.ANET BUT, THE POINT OI= IT: II= PEOPLE ARE sEI.I=IsH (THEN) IT'S NOT RIGHT FOR ME TO sAvE sEI.I=IsH PEOPLE. I'M, EVEN‘ NOW. GETTING MORE nEsTIucTIvE As TO THE MusI<IANs I usE. I DON'T wANT NOBODY sEI.I=IsH IN THIs BAND. I DON'T <AnE HOw Mu¢H THEY PLAY. IT's BAD FOR ME TO HAVE A MAN DOwN HERE, A wOMAN, ANYBODY wHO Is sEI.I=IsH BEcAusE IT DIs<OunAc.Es ME. AND I DON'T NEED NO DISCOURAG EMENT. suN RA FEBRUARY 16. 1986
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-21
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 22 (April, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: APRIL 1999 ISSUE 22 Il"IIl£'fV@I.DlI§EAIOVE'IIIRWI$DODK 1IImr¢ouuvs££uA1IIn:AsrrIs Aunillnrwoulnunnnnusmub 1IIA'r11I£n£An:onI£nnAu:soI=NA1un£ GIEAIERIIIANTIIEILANETIIETRNOW. Auamuunmm ABET!-IE OIIIERMEASIIBE ‘ram: amsnwlsnou-I¢NouN<:—Mnn. ISSUE 22 9 9 9 1 u R P A Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds. . . . . ......... Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California...October 20,l984...... Sun Ra:What I'm dealing with(is)if I'm not alert it always takes_~ something of value.It always takes it.Any time(and)they usually take instruments.All you have to do is just bat your eye and these forces will take it.They will take it,all right. ' John Hindszwhere do they disappear?On the street or...Marshall (Allen)says he's gone through three alto(saxophones)and I thought who could steal Marshall Allen's alto? SR:Spiritual beings.They don't have to steal.They can make it disappear...if your mind is not right on it.They can take it. Yo...
Show moreAPRIL 1999 ISSUE 22 Il"IIl£'fV@I.DlI§EAIOVE'IIIRWI$DODK 1IImr¢ouuvs££uA1IIn:AsrrIs Aunillnrwoulnunnnnusmub 1IIA'r11I£n£An:onI£nnAu:soI=NA1un£ GIEAIERIIIANTIIEILANETIIETRNOW. Auamuunmm ABET!-IE OIIIERMEASIIBE ‘ram: amsnwlsnou-I¢NouN<:—Mnn. ISSUE 22 9 9 9 1 u R P A Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds. . . . . ......... Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California...October 20,l984...... Sun Ra:What I'm dealing with(is)if I'm not alert it always takes_~ something of value.It always takes it.Any time(and)they usually take instruments.All you have to do is just bat your eye and these forces will take it.They will take it,all right. ' John Hindszwhere do they disappear?On the street or...Marshall (Allen)says he's gone through three alto(saxophones)and I thought who could steal Marshall Allen's alto? SR:Spiritual beings.They don't have to steal.They can make it disappear...if your mind is not right on it.They can take it. You'd never know what happenend.They can move it from one place to the other and that's it if you're not watching it.If you're watching it,of course,they're not going to do it.If you got your mind on something else that's when they zoom in and they'll take it.I've had several instruments taken right from in front of everybody's face.Nobody saw it leave.Nobody saw nobody get it but then my mind was somewhere else doing something.Somebody else and their mind was somewhere else and that's when they can come in and get it because you can't prove they took it.You can't prove it unless you have it in you're mind a memory of the last thing you did.See,they have no memory of the last time they saw it.But I have a memory of that I handed it back there(Sun Ra is referring to his spiral bound music notebook which was lost the previous day at radio station KFJC.After Sun Ra left Berkeley, John Hinds and Peter Hinds went to §PJC,found and returned,by mail,the notebook to Sun Ra).- JH:And they don't remember that at all. SR:And I never saw it again.If I seen it again it would be in my...my mind retains(and)photographs things and that's the rea- son I look.It always photographs things.Last time I even looked at it I was handing it to them(them being Tyrone Hill and one other band member).If I had lookeb back it would have photo- graphed the fact that I handed it to one of them.But I didn't see that. - JH:But that's got to hurt to lose three alto(saxophones) in two years,I mean financially. SR:well,it is Marshall's fault.He left it in a club.It had been robbed several times.He left it up there in plain sight at the door. JH:what,he didn't take it home or he just left it at the door? SR:We was in Washington DC.It was a brand new alto and he saw this girl he knew...he left it.He left it right there.But we had been told that somebody stole a tape recorder there(and) some more things.we had been told that.But that's all they took is the brand new alto.So somebody was probably watching it. . * . JH:I imagine.It's hard to figure(that)people be like vultures. Just to go I'll steal this man's instrument. SR:well,they don't call it stea1ing.when you get well known people call it getting souvenirs.They take uniforms,too.One' time I went to a fellows house,to a party,he had one of the uniforms draped over his lamp,as a lampshade.And I took it. It just disappeared.But I had a lot of creations and different things(and)they be beautifu1,rea1ly,and they take it.They don't call it stealing.I had some red pants once and they were the reddest pants you ever saw.They would shine in the sun so even men would whistle and all of the construction gang(would) look down and they could see these pants.They were red unintelligi- ble.So I took it...we was playing in Boston(and)I took it and hung it on the stage,instead of the dressing room,right up there by the band.They disappeared.That's'cause I obeyed it. These forces will only take things that you paid(for).They might mean nothing to nobody else but if you take your eye off it they take it and they be doing everybody like that. And they consider it as a great victory when they can create a mystery. JH:I'll keep my eye on my stuff.I don't want my bass saxophone going nowhere.That'd be hard for them to get,though. PH:It's too heavy. SR:well,they took my electronic piano,Crumar Piano. JH:The Crumar. SR:The big_one.Best piano on the market,real1y. JH:Is that the one that you could mix all these different, like organ and synthesizer?Or was it just strictly piano? SR:It was one that you could get different sounds.Like guitar sounds... JH:was it a Stratus?was that what it was? SR:No,the Stratus was destroyed.They took that,too. JH:So you don't have that anymore. SR:They took all my instruments except... JH:That's so co1d....Sun Ra,too.I mean,here's a man on a mission here,(to)do some work and making it hard. SR:Yeah,well,it's because of disobediance.See,I call it... well,we's in France...Egypt?wherever we was I told Danny (Thompson)(to)call the house and tell the person we left there to take all my instruments out there and pawn it "cause someone's going to break in.A week ahead I told him. And so he didn't do it. JH:And they were gone. SR:That's right.And while he wasn't there one night some- body broke(in)but I told him(to)take all my instruments. Someone is breaking,going to break in the house...'cause I left out a gentleman unintelligible that means something unpleasant.And what happenend is they going to break in that house.And they did.Ask Danny to call the second(radio) station. ~ JH:(steps out the door to ask Danny)”Did you call the second station?" Danny Thompson:"Yeah,I called both stations." JH:Yeah,he called them,called them both...well,if you don't get it back I'll call them after you leave and if I find it; there's not too much chance of that but I will call them .I would call them if you don't get it.Follow that up,you know. SR:Been time wasted,you know. JH:Oh,too much. SR:I got to write that all and beside I got another song in there I was writing an arrangement out on,Give Me The Simple Life and I don't even have a...I don't even have that song,you know.The whole song is in there.You probably can't buy it.It's the whole song.No telling what else I got in there.what have I got in there?Yeah,I got Can You Take It?in there,too... JH:That's got to hurt. SR:That's my lesson for the day. JH:People stealing your instruments.....But I was thinking about that.That E flat bass clarinet.That hits that low note, 1ike,concert G sharp. . ’ SR:which one? JH:That B flat bass clarinet(that)$lo(Omoe plays). SR:wel1,then there's the contra... JH:The contra.Yeah,the contra bass. SR:0ne of them is...I don't know if it's an arto.One o them is an alto. ‘ JH:Bass,I think. SR:Because he play in the same key as Danny(Thompson),I . 4 think.The long one. JH:Yeah,that's right.E flat. SR:It looks like a contra bass.But I think the contra bass" .unintel1igible must play it just like the other clarinet in... JH:B flat. SR:That’key. JH:You've seen those.Like,they're... SR:Yeah._ JH:...metal.Like (Anthony)Braxton,I think.He plays one a lot of times,too.And a lot of times they're...it's all metal.It's just this thing and then itTs got the horn on the top like that. SR:That's right.Unintelligib1e Elo bought that I thought it was a bass clarinet or something but then we missing one and we've had one.And then I found out it was in that alto key unintelligible and that's what it was. well,it's a nice sound.It's a pretty sound(and)it looks, good,too. ' ‘I ‘ " JH:Oh,it's a beautiful instrument.I was checking it out V thinking about it,though,and it gets the same...it goes as low as the bass sax.My bass,you know,this bass sax which I have.(Made in)1924.Beautifu1.You'd like that,I think.Not to take on the road,though. SR:what? JH:A 1924 Conn bass saxophone. SR:0h,yeah. JH:I have one of those.Same thing that Coleman(Hawkins) . was playing.Same one...I don't know if it's the same one but it's the same(model).And the same note.It goes down that low A flat.The A flat two octaves below middle C. That's powerful.That's a real power horn.You wouldn't want to take that around with you on the road,you know. Very heavy. ' SR:well;that's the thing about it.If they gave more con- sideration to musicians...but they don't when it comes to a travelling. — . JH:It's a shame.And the costs.I know I don't have to tell you about that.The costs of it a11,though.You have to_ ‘ lighten it down.Maybe that's one thing good about the Casio and these things,too.'Cause they're a little cheaper k to take around rather than... SR:The what? JH:The Casio and some of these lighter keyboards.They're easier to...shipping and things like that.A little cheaper. SR:They don't go by the weight unintelligible no more.I mean,unless it's over a'certain(weight).Like Jacson's big drum.It's longer and then the weigh it.They say something about it's over seventy pounds.It feels seventy five pounds. Unintelligible I tried to lift it up and all that,you know. If you ain't got yourself together...But it's quite dis- turbing.I didn't bring too many things.I didn't want to lose nothing.But these forces took the one thing that cause me difficulty.They always be doing that.But I was warned to take that attache case.It just seemed like extra weight. JH:what are you looking to do today?You got your whole schedule planned out? SR:well,I just have to relax before I play because I got now,since my plans were messed up by that book dis- appearing I have to go in another direction'cause I was going to play that tonight. SR:Maybe you could play some of your new tunes like this Discipline in here..You got Discipline Thirty Two and some of these other tunes.Maybe they are ready,maybe they're not,though.I don't know if the band,you know,has seen them. But there's a lot of titles... SR:we got a lot of songs but then...they saying some other things to the general public.I don't know if they'd catch it,in a sense.I have to get a photograph of the audience before I decide on what I'm playing.And I know what to play unintelligible.After I get that unintelligible picture of everybody together I'll play the exact things that needs to be played.But,if I prepare something in advance it might be a delayed reaction.They might not hear it untill next week.Their minds will retain it but they won't know what's happening untill next(week).Then they'll think about it. It'll come back to them in a flash.But I play something where it would get to them immediately.It's a big theater (Market Street Cinema)(and)I don't know how the sound system is... JH:Yeah,I don't either.Or the piano.I don't know what... Sr:I don't know that so I have to adjust myself according to the piano(and)the sound system.Are we going to have an echo for the drums or what?Al1 that has to be considered. I can't tell(untill)I go there. JH:I'd like to hear Jacson's basson a little more miked up.Sometimes it's hard to hear.It gets washed over or is that the idea,to blend. SR:well,he don't have too many songs'cause he lost his music and I haven't written nothing new for him. JH:Oh,yeah?It just sometimes gets drowned out.If you could just get that mic in there or something.Or is it, maybe it's supposed to blend. SR:Well,he didn't have no music and nothing for him to. play.He can't just play anything.So he just hold his horn untill I get a chance to write his part over.He had a lot of songs.Maybe one hundred songs.That takes me a long time to find out what notes I gave him.I have to change the whole repertoire in order to give him a part now.. JH:What happened to his book? SR:It disappeared on a train...A whole pack.A backpack disappeared. - JH:You need a billion do1lars,you know.You need a billion dollars,something like that to... Trone Hi11:It's(the sheet music)not in this bag. JH:...make things work just perfect. SR:It's really something.The only place for it to be in is in that car unless,unless,when you all was putting some money in the machine,you-laid it up on top of the machine. And never got it back. ' . TH:On top of what machine? SR:The machine that(you got the)cans out of. JH:0h,the vending machines. TH:what machines? SR:You know,we came out the first studio(and)there was a machine there and... - TH:No...We still had it then. SR:That's when we came out of the studio. TH:Out of the first studio in San Francisco. SR:But you all in a different place from me........ The thing about itzsome musicians are unscrupulous. If you leave any of my stuff around they'll take it. Unintelligible...Calabria?Someplace we was playing.In a jazz club and I had this fake book.It disappeared.Had it on the piano.Disappeared.Somebody took it.You can't buy those books over there easi1y.So,obviously,they took it. So I know you can't leave it. :u—:—u—1¢-:1:-1.:-«--——anon-cu:-at.-1-an-1-..--:1-u-p—u:-3-911-—u—-no.-1-—--—--—-——n—--—c-——- SR:I got a reel to reel(tape recorder)at the house.And I have...these robbers,they stole a four track Teac.They packed and moved out,they took everything.They took three amplifiers. JH:From your house? SR:(Indicates yes)So we left a fellow to take care of it.They got the drop in him as soon as he(left).They got the drop on him.They must have been watching when left the house."Cause he stay in there but he'd come over there.He'd be over there but this must have been done at night.They got in through John's window,I suppose. They were able to...they must have got...It's a row of houses.You can walk across...but they must have got on the last house.They must have put a ladder up and unin- telligible empty house and walked on over there to John's window anlift that up and come in and come downstairs.It had to be.The neighboors didn't see nothing.But they had to have a big,wel1,they had to have a station wagon or some- thing like that. JH:what about your other instruments?Don't you have a celeste and all this other stuff,too? SR:They didn't get that.That was upstairs in Jacson's room. They didn't know about that.It was somebody who knew what I had.They took what they knew I had.It was another synthe- sizer there which I have to have fixed.They didn't take that ‘cause they hadn't ever seen that.And another amplifier,they hadn't seen that,either.It's a unintelligible and this a real long one like this.A bass amp.It's a good amp.One of the best I had.I had two of them.One of them is downstairs in the base- ment.They didn't go down there.I had an electronic piano down there,too.A Wurlitzer.But,unfortunately the pipes burst and it's still wet,in a sense.The keys swole up but it was like.. it just when you trying to do something worhtwhile other forces get over in there.They get in there(and)they be causing little things to discourage you(and)to...really, Incredible.But they unintelligible all the instruments _except the ones I had with me.And I did have them.well, this instrument.they would have got that,too. ‘JH:That Casio? SR:It was at a friends house in New York.I had taken it up there and I just left it.And I would have left some other things up there too but we had this time element. And then the organ,they didn't take that'cause I left that in Milano.It's still there.And I got a Moog synthe- sizer,too.But it's a long one like a guitar and that was in Paris.So they didn't get that. JH:So when you go to Paris you'll have to get that again? SR:I brought it back with me this time'cause the last place we played in Europe was Paris for a week and the bus that we had that takes us around and they brought it but in Milano I got two,maybe three amplifiers.In Paris I got two big speakers so they didn't get that.But I couldn't bring it with me.They saw it outside of Paris suburb so...they been there five years....I would have brought it back with me...comparatively safe now'cause I got somebody that stay- ed there in the house practically all the time now.He's one of Danny's friends and he be there.He be there all the time. SR:They never let up,you know.One time in Canada I called a friend in Chicago.I said go to the house,the apartment and get my stuff out(of)there.Someone's going to break in there. He said,"But I go there every day."And he got unintelligible. It's on the fourth f1oor........"You better get my stuff out of there'cause I'm up under the juristiction of unintelligible I don't need to make mistakes.They tell me in advance it's going to happen.Someone is going to break in there.So he didn't go.He missed one day and(when)he went there the door was off the hinges.I lost a lot of valuable things.Books...things that could not be replaced.Even took a newspaper article that,yeah, a newspaper article that was put in the paper in Chicago in the white district.....And it had this picture in there and it said that the Sphinx represents Ra.And it had a story in there about it but it wasn't in the black districts.It was white district on1y.Now,I had that cut out(and)pasted in a book. JH:And that disappeared,too. SR:That was over in the book.I had it pasted in a book.And they took the book,too.Somebody say the neighboors was com- ing upstairs like it was a library and they sitting in there reading...unintelligible took what they wanted... . . . . . .. we left there for a week or two weeks to go to Canada.we didn't come back.we never did come back to Chicago.we was up there a little longer,you see. Paul Bley had all his stuff disappeared.Unintelligible,com- positions(and)everything.The forces be working constantly, you know.Catch you napping.But you always be warned in ad- vance.It's a matter whether you listen.Like,I was warned yesterday.A voice told me(and)said take your attache case and put the music in there.But I didn't have but one piece of music so I didn't see why.If I took the attache case I'd have the piece(of music).'Cause it would have been in that attache case..........But I had to get ready for that inter- view and then when I do that my mind is on that.People be asking me questions(and)you have to be careful what you say- ing.'Cause then the forces(wi11)if you make an error when you talking they'll take the error and build up on it... They'll be looking for the errors you make.They'll unintel- ligible a whole country on one error.Sit back and wait for them to discover the error....'Cause if you think you're right,it's the worst thing you can do.They'll make you think you're right........It's a school here.(If)you pass the test of being alert and having discipline you got it made.You relax one split second(and)they got you.I was trying to save time.They don't even let you do that.That's the reason I took it(sheet music)with me.To save time.I didn't.Got to write it all over again.That's the price I pay,you know.A lot of people would have given up behind all this stuff I go through. The reason I can't sleep is(there)be some spiritual entities full of energy around me.They be visiting me.Can't sleep then. It's hard'cause they don't sleep.When they come around...can't s1eep.Unless you(are)insensitive.If you are insensitive they come through you in dreams but they don't have to come to me in no dreams.I be hearing strange sounds.Last night I heard a strange sound.Back in the washroom.And then I heard a strange sound over there and I heard one over there.I heard three strange sounds. 10 JH:What did they sound like? SR:It was like metallic. JH:Like(a)percussive(sound)? SR:Just one(sound).In this case it was just one.Over there. Each night I hear something.A sound.Just one sound.I always ‘look out the window.Nothing over there but the wall but still I look........So I'm very sensitive.That happens at the house, too.I hear these strange sounds. JH:Are they always metallic like that? SR:Sometimes it's a deep sound.So I know it ain't no mouse that could make a sound like that.Nothing be falling.You could say it's a mouse or something,maybe,that you don't know about but no,go back there(and)nothing fel1.Maybe they're trying to get me prepared to see them.I don't know. A fellow was sitting next(to me)and talking to me in Chicago. He told me one day,"I really would like to see my wife again before I die,you know."I was telling him he shouldn't be say- ing things like that,you know,'cause the forces be waiting for you uninteligib1e.He was out on the street one day and he said, "God,where are you?"And this voice came(and said),"I am every- where."I told him then to watch it.But the next thing(that) happened(was)his wife...show up in the doorway one night(and) then he got on his knees and prayed,'Please take her away." ‘Cause he didn't tell me his wife was dead.Unintelligible. She showed up in his doorway and then he was scared.He was so frightened.'Cause she'd been dead and buried about five years.But that's what he said.He wanted to see her again. And about two months later he died.So...you don't say things like that.Like unintelligible.He's going to Europe(and)he wasn't coming back.I told him,don't say that.He did go there. He didn't come back.So I know they take advantage of people make statements that's really non practical.They work on that quicker than what is practical.If they have one that is practical they catch you when you napping.Catch you when you napping.And they will. JH:what about dreams? SR:I had this dream the night before last:A newspaper.I could read the whole newspaper just like it was real.Down to small detail.Even who wrote the article.Had picture in there of some black ministers all dressed in their stuff and it had this 11 article about them but they were doing something and they were very succesful and they were interviewing them about... and they gave part of it and they supposed to give the other. And in the article it_said that they didn't keep their word about the second part of the article.That was over in the middle of the newspaper.It was a big newspaper so I turned to the front page.On the front page they had Lucifer.The name of the newspaper was Lucifer Illumini or Illuminary. Lucifer.That's the name of the paper.Down up on the bottom it had in big letters,Birmingham,Alabama.And I looked real good(c1osely).I was surprised and I said I didn't know they had a newspaper like that but I haven't been there for a whi1e.Very graphic...(and)big letters.So that's the puzzling (thing).How,why dream a dream like that.It was like it wasn't a dream.I've been trying to figure it out.Lucifer Illuminari. The name of the newspaper.Usually a newspaper have the city in small letters.Big letters.Birmingham,al1 of them capitalized. JH:Do you remember the stories in it? SR:0h,yeah.I read other things in there.Little trivial things. Advertisements in there.The only thing I remember is the black minister artic1e.I don't remember nothing the article was say- ing.0ne thing I know is it said they(the ministers) didn't keep their appointment for the continuation of the interview.They (the newspaper)talked about it.That's all I remember. JH:That's interesting.Didn't keep their appointment to continue it. ‘ _SR:And the impression was they were very succesful and that's why they was interviewing them. JH:This is interesting(referring to sheet music).Is this a sketch for... SR:Song about Chicago. JH:Are those just impressions down at the bottom(of the page) to stimulate you into remembering some things... SR:It's words for this(song)but...I'm probably not going to use it.It might be too late.See,Chicago wanted a song.This is the songs but I never sent it.It was exactly what they need. It's what they want.But I have a-lot of projects and I 12 don't finish it. JH:Have a lot of things on the fire. SR:A lot.They need this song.They'd give five thousand dollars . for it and I haven't even sent it. 1 JH:It would be nice to have you write a song for Chicago and also get a little(money)... SR:I wrote it twenty years ago.It's pretty.Everybody likes it. In fact,June sang it at the sound check but when she got to the middle part she didn't sing it the way I would like it to be sung so I didn't do it that night. » JH:where was this? SR:The last time we played in Chicago. JH:And are you still working on certain arrangementsichristopher Columbus and all these tunes... T‘ SR:I just brought some things with me to look at because I don't have the trumpet music.Every trumpet player I get takes the music and keeps it so don't nobody else get the job.So I- have to take my cue sheets with me in case I write it over.I- have to keep on writing trumpet parts. JH:No kidding?Does Walter Miller have all his music? SR:I don't remember about Walter but I know Martin Banks got the music and before that Fred,another trumpet,he got the first part.And then they keep the music.So won't nobody else get the job.The first(trumpet)men keep the music.Invariably. JH:They want to be called back again. SR:They don't want nobody else to see it.So when I write I have to write...now I have to write two or three parts and have them xeroxed.But I got so much to do that I can't do it all. JH:How about some of these other tunes you had in your book? I was peeking in there and you had some different things I never heard of....Purple Sky. SR:Yeah,well that's one I never played out in the public.It's 13 a pretty song, JH:Need1esg to say Iim nowhere_near your ability as far as d._ sight reading or writing stuff.I'm not that)very good at that so I can‘t look at this and hear it in my head but that wouldg be nice to hear.Sometimes I wish I was,you know,but it takes“‘ work.It takes a lot of work to be on that leve1,This sounds familiar,though,P1easant Twi1ight.A ‘ SR:That's oyer on the Egyptian record, JH:OK,yeah;New Horizons;Now,you got New Horizons here,too, and then you got this little sketch;Is_this for trumpet?f ; And then you got this. ‘ SR:That's for the trumpet and the first alto.That7s another? introduction I added.But,actually,more harmonic structure’ to the chords unintelligible. ‘ ‘ ' ' " JH:Yeah,it's amazing,And working at this quite intenselyyﬂ though,you*know.Cross out certain things... I. ~ SR:Oh yeah,I have to because the chords have to be written according to the instrumentation,If I change the instrumen+‘ tation the chords will sound wrong'cause the harmonies are: so close.So it's tailor made.If one person lay out itYs.not:;h, going to sound.Just like_that.It's a balance,you know, JH:YeahKwe1l,that‘s‘intersting.Now,E1o(Omoe),he‘s got his ., alto.So you got three altos there;Now,you haven't had that all the time.Sometimes you have that but youidonft have three altos all the time. ‘I ‘ SR:On1y Fletcher Henderson knows about what I do'cause that“s- what he had.(That)was the time. JH:Are you thinking of featuring John(Gilmore)on the clarinet? SR:I got a lot of things on clarinet for him;1 I JH:Real1y§He sounds so good.He's got that...sound.Q. SR:He/started on clarinet.He was taught by a German.So he (was)meticulous. JH:Yeah.He wants to get a new clarinet.That's amazing,I hear him playing that beautiful style but then I also hear him 14 warming up and I hear things I don't hear him playing,you know.More of a,let's say,a smooth tone or something.(sings scale).And I go(think)that would be nice to hear.Something featuring that tonal quality.'Cause he can play that sound Buster Bailey(had)and all that kind of thing.That sounds‘ just marvelous,you know.And I hear this other thing coming in,too. . SR:He really hadn't had a chance but I haven't had one so it's one of them things.The world might not never hear it because they haven't opened the way for us..,unfortunately. He ought to have good instruments.Well,he got a nice saxo- phone. JH:Yeah,that's true.All new I think. SR:A1l of them got nice saxophones.we got that in Paris.“ But(the)clarinet.He looking for a particular kind of clarinet. He ain't found it yet unintelligible. JH:That's amazing,though.I'd like to hear that.I'd like to hear that other sound he's got that I've never heard.'Cause, you know,1ike you guys are playing all the time but I'm not there all the time.I can't physically be there. SR:Well,John rehearses every day.About four or five times a day where we staying(Philadelphia).It doesn't bother the neighboors.that's one reason while I stayed in Philadelphia. other places unintelligible,where we stay at there are no houses on the other side that's near.And you can't...if you stand in the front room so the sound goes over there instead .of,1ike.bouncing up against the walls.It doesn't do that.You can hear it but...the neighboors don't say nothing.Unless they ask why we not rehearsing. I JH:You rehearse there,too. SR:Yeah.they ask why we aren't rehearsing. JH:That ever get to be a problem? SR:No,they be asking why don't we rehearse?They say they can sleep good by the sounds unintel1igible.That they can relax by it so therefore they be worried when we don't rehearse. It's a big living room,you know.It's about three times longer than this. JH:About as wide? SR:It's as wide and three times longer from here to there. That's big....It really could be divided into three rooms it's so big. JH:was that some of your recording equipment you were tell- ing me about... — SR:That they took? JH:...that they took? SR:Yeah.A Teac,a Sony...A Teac four track,Sony two track. The only reason they didn't get this Roberts is becausre ... they didn't know about that.I told you somebody who knew unintelligib1e.And,of course,psychically I traced it down (to)who had it.who got it.A guitar player.He's in Detroit. The guitarists name is James Glass.I traced it.He got it. JH:James Glass? SR:Yeah.James Glass and he went to Europe with us.But he came back early because he wasn't suitab1e,you know.He got so he wouldn't... JH:He couldn't make it? SR:He was playing but he got so he wouldn't even take his guitar out.He got very proud.I think it was.;.wouldn't listen to nobody.He'd be out there in the streets in Paris late at night.we's telling him about the police and different things like that.He'd go out without his passport.He kept on doing things that was dangerous.Unintelligible being real dark skinned(and)without a passport they would have thought he was Senegalese.And a lot of them enter the country illegally.If they don't have no passport or nothing they take them to the airport and put them on the plane and ship them back to Senegal. And we told him about that danger.He wouldn't listen. JH:I wonder why not? SR:He just hard headed.A lot of teenagers are hard headed. Jﬁzwas this guy a teenager? SR:well,he was twenty one or something...So,we had to send 16 him back.And when he came back he broke in the house.Because, in the first place,we was supposed to come back on the... we11,he knew we were supposed to come back on the sixth or something like that.So he broke in the house about the fourth or something like that.And he left town.He went to Detroit. I traced it up.He thought we was coming back so he had to get out.His people said he was nervous and(he)said he had to go to Detroit.His father and his stepmother...his sister said,"Yeah, well,he was saying he...I don't like you all no more.I'm going to Detroit to stay at my mother"He hadn't seen his mother since he was a baby.So he was getting away from them before we come in (to Phi1adelphia).But we didn't come back.we went to Egyptyso, he took it,allright.So,unintel1igible a place where he used to go to pawn an instrument and the piano was there.The piano was there and at first they say they didn't know who brought it in and then they aknowledged he brought it in there.So,an ampli- fier,too.It was there,too.But I couldn't find my receipt... JH:The original receipts. SR:The original receipt.Because there's so much there(at the house)and I didn't have time'cause we went on the road again. The next thing,the piano,the man told me(to)report it to the police department and everything but I couldn't report it.I had...evidence that I had taken a camera(photo of Sun Ra and the piano)with me.Canadian government had snapped(taken the photo)it.But the number was there and everything.So I knew the number of the piano but I didn't have the receipt that I bought it because I didn't buy it.Crumar gave it to me.Now, so it is a prob1em.If I go to the police they going to ask for the receipt that it's mine.That since Crumar gave,and Crumar made me a representative of Crumar.If I could find that 1etter.It's somewhere in the house but I didn't have time to look for it.I had to go back out so,you see,it was all very complicated. JH:That's for sure. SR:So the man that he(James G1ass)sold the piano(to said) there was three keys on there that were bad and mine had three keys(that were bad).what had happenend(is that)the enamel came off or something so it was put back together so the personAt the pawn shop)going to buy it must of said something about that and he had to get these three keys.So, then I knew it was mine.And the number corresponded but,you know,I lost that.It was a sacrifice. Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds . . . . . . . . . . . .. February l6,l986...Continued from SRR Twenty One...Page nineteen SR:So I'm going to Russia,too.I'm planning on going to Siberia (and)go up there and see what they doing.I'm sure that unintel- ligible'cause this Creator that I'm talking about controls them, too.And once I get out of America I'll be able to do anything I want to and talk to people and they going to accept it.They not going to be like America and I know they aren't. JH:It’ll go very well once you get over there. SR:well,whenever I go over there I have money and when I come back here I've spent all of it(and)I don't have anything.So it just like I can't do anything here except on a very limited basis.And I could be playing in every state in the union but, you know,I haven't been to every state over here but I've been to every country in Europe.Right there you can see something is wrong. A JH:well,maybe when you go over there they'll miss you,you know. Maybe they'll know what they lost. SR:when I leave America a light is going out in this country. I mean it's going to be spiritual...well, emptiness.That's it. So all I can say is too bad.And I'm not against America.They doing the best they can.But they got some people here called negros and black folks and colored folks that are not in tune or recognized by the Creator and that's the...it's very sad indeed.So I was able to be in touch with him as a child so, therefore...it's a simple as that.But at this point he fix up everything for me to leave here. PH:what's your schedule now the next two weeks?I know you're playing Sweet Basil(New York) SR:Well,I got to pack up,you know.'Cause I got toget some unin— telligible and some tapes and some write ups(reviews)over to France for the unintelligib1e.I don't want to leave my stuff here at the mercy for them.Two weeks...even with amazing fifty years of different stuff,two weeks is very difficult to get all that together and put it into storage and to unintelligible away.That's a big job and only I can do it.I can't even have nobody in the band to help me.They don't know what to save and what to throw away.So I got a terrific job on my hands. PH:Just save it all. SR:we1l,I_won't have any help.So they might throw away something of value.So I have to go through piece by piece with every sheet of music and every sheet of writing and I have to do that by my- self.So for the next two weeks that's what I'll be doing.Fortu- nately,next time we play will be in Philade1phia.That's two weeks off...well...about two weeks...what's this?The seventeenth? PH:Today is sixteen. SR:Right.Two weeks from now I'll be playing in Philadelphia.I'm going to leave here and go to Sweet Basil in New York.Then after that,the next thing we supposed to do(is)where I was having this...thing together with John Cage.But they cancelled that and moved it to...June,I think,now.which isn't too good because,well, maybe yes but first they're talking about the end of July(or) August'so it would fit in.But the point of it:I'd like to go over there before then and it might be,if the booking agent in Holland wants to hook me and they might have something for me in June,you see. |# 8798456-9 A FIRESIDE MIT/l LUCIFER WHEN I LEAVE AMERICA A LIGHT Is GOING our IN 'rI-IIs couN1'mr. I MEAN IT'S GOING TO BE SPIRITUAL . . . wEI.I., EMI>1'INEss. THAT'S‘ IT. so ALL I cAN SAY Is T00 A BAD. AND I'M No'r Ac.AINs1' AMERICA. THEY DOING THE BEs'r THEY cAN. BUT THEY ¢o'r SOME PEOPLE HERE cAI.I.ED NEGROES AND BI.A<I< FOLKS AND <oI.oBED A FOLKS THAT ARE NOT IN TUNE on A RECOGNIZED BY THE CREATOR AND THAT'S THE . . . IT'S vE RY sAD INDEED. so I wAs ABLE TO BE IN 1'ou<I-I WITH HIM As A <I-III.D so, THEREFORE - . . IT'S As SIMPLE As 1'I-IA'r. BUT AT THIS POINT I-IE FIXEDUP EVERYTHING FOR ME TO LEAVE HERE. suN BA % FEBRUARY 16, 1986
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-22
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 23 (June, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-06-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Stuart Frederick Cover photograph:Stuart Frederick JUNE 1999 ISSUE 23 Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...March 29,1989 . . . . . . . .. Peter Hinds;How are you doing? Sun Ra:well,I'm still trying.I just got back from New York. PH:How was New York? SR:It was a1right.I'm playing the sunrise concert on June 21. Me and Don Cherry at Battery Park in New York City. PH:June twenty first? SR:Yeah,summer golstice. PH:That'll be beautiful.At six am? SR:well,no.The sun rises at four something and we'll bring the sun in.Me and Don Cherry.It's a big affair.It's starting on the twentieth with Max Roach at sunset.Max Roach will begin the performances with fifty drummers.And then it's going on and keep on ‘till midnight.At midnight...that's when I'll appear, really.But I won't really be playing,me and Don Cherry,untill the sun rises.I will be playing when the sun rises.Then I play untill about seven or somethingt like that.Me and Don Cherry....
Show moreStuart Frederick Cover photograph:Stuart Frederick JUNE 1999 ISSUE 23 Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...March 29,1989 . . . . . . . .. Peter Hinds;How are you doing? Sun Ra:well,I'm still trying.I just got back from New York. PH:How was New York? SR:It was a1right.I'm playing the sunrise concert on June 21. Me and Don Cherry at Battery Park in New York City. PH:June twenty first? SR:Yeah,summer golstice. PH:That'll be beautiful.At six am? SR:well,no.The sun rises at four something and we'll bring the sun in.Me and Don Cherry.It's a big affair.It's starting on the twentieth with Max Roach at sunset.Max Roach will begin the performances with fifty drummers.And then it's going on and keep on ‘till midnight.At midnight...that's when I'll appear, really.But I won't really be playing,me and Don Cherry,untill the sun rises.I will be playing when the sun rises.Then I play untill about seven or somethingt like that.Me and Don Cherry. A hundred piece(s)in the choir and it got a lot of things'cause a lot of places we going I got to deal with all kind of things in between the time Don Cherry and I appear. PH:That's sensationa1.That'1l be beautiful. SR:And I'm probably writing something for the one hundred piece choir to sing. ' PH:Alright.You just made all the arrangements today with that? SR:Yes,I signed a contract today so that's it.Actually,during that particular time I'm supposed to be in British Vancouver (British Columbia)because after I get this concert I got to go to British Vancouver and tour up in Canada.Toronto and some more places up around there.So then I was worried about whether I was going to be able to do it but since it's on the twenty first I can do it'cause it's going to be a very important festival. PH:That's true.So you going to fly to Vancouver and then go across Canada right after that. SR:Yeah,go right across Canadainid you get the Spin magazine yet? PH:Oh yeah,I got the Spin.I sure did. SR:what did you think? PH:Beautiful interview.Great,you know.I like those interviews where they stand back and let you talk. ‘ SR:It was quite provacative. PH:0h,it certainly is.(laughs) SR:Startling things there about God.I repeated what I said in that(interview)today.Another interview fella. PH : with whom? SR:well,with the people that's in charge of the festival. PH:well,that's going to get a reaction.There's no question(laughs). SR:I'm not attacking the church.I'm just telling what they worship.And things are getting worse.They do say they trust in God but things are getting worse and worse.And you judge a tree by the fruit.They not worshipping Satan.They not worshipping him but they say God will take care of them.Of course,God got some caretakers over in the cemetary.That's what they call them,Caretakers.He take care of them alright. So they should wake up and see it's a very terrible test on humanity for them not to use their brain and see that God is really real but he's dead,you know.But from the point of... like some of the hippies say God is dead.They(are)right.But except they should add a t(and)h on there and say God is death because he jumped over into that particular mission.'Cause folks messed with his name so much(and)did so many bad things. God abandoned that name and that's what the Christ crucifiction mean.He took the name of God and nailed up on that cross and got rid of it and made it equal to death'cause he killed.He killed the name and,therefore,anybody who jump over in the name of God,they going to get killed.They going to get wasted be- cause God wasted the name.God,he got rid of it because it was too disgraceful and they did too many bad things in that name and they brought on down to the lowest common denominator of the worst possible thing.That's why in a business contract they say acts of God includes tornadoes,earthquakes,tidal waves. Everything that is bad.They call that acts of God.People ought to wake up and see that everything here is fixed up and you got the words and everything(so)rthey should believe and be saved.But then it isn't so much about being saved as being rescued because it's quite dangerous.Like-one of the fellows in the band connected with me.He prayed to God last night for(him)to save him.I told him don't be doing that.I said,"Don’t be asking God for nothing.He's not your friend at this particular point.Ain't nobody's friend because it's a bad name.It used to be a good name but it's a bad one now. Don't ask him for nothing."So he was praying to God and today he came out of the house and was walking down the street and a dog broke loose from loose from the chain and hit him. PH:Oh no.(laughs) SR:Yes it did.It bit him.I done told him:do not be talking about praying to God'cause you'll get a message. PH:He got a message all right. SR:This dog bit him up around his knee. PH:Is he ok? % I SR:we1l,I mean he went to the hospital. PH:who was this? SR:Eddie Jones.You've never seen him. PH:No I haven't.Does he play drums? SR:He play drums.He never been out there.But he disobeyed me. I told him about my equations.That the worst thing he could do is to be over there praying to God because that name was disgraced so thoroughly and the Creator hated it so bad that anybody who even say that word,they break some curses off of them.That might sound strange but I see the world is in trouble, trouble,trouble.And when Adam and Eve was told and when they say unintelligible shall become as Gods and they touched that tree,they got a terrible,terrib1e condition.So the book says to become as God,over there you be in trouble.That what the book says.You be in trouble.And they don't believe the book but the book is equational and it's happening.It ain't supposed to happen.A very bad book but it is happening and there it is a a great punishment on all humanity to have a book like that. But the book is exactly what they deserve because they deceptive and the book is more deceptive than them.It's more deceptive than them and the book is more destructive than humanity.So they met their match at last.They met their match.That book is taking care of the business on people.Because when it said the word was made first it was talking about the book.The book is the word of god.So they be over there worshipping the word of God and the word of God is not God.It's just-a word,you see.That's what they worshipping.The word.And the word is taking care of business on them.It's like I said:That there's somebody dare to address the Creator of God he throws all his wrath and fury on them.He sends a message:don't call him nothing like that.That's my message to humanity:Do not call the Creator God'cause you'll make him mad. Now,he made that word God a sin... because so many people did bad things in that name. PH:That's so true. SR:And still doing. PH:That's true,too. SR:They doing some bad things in that name.Like putting out five million dollar reward for killing a man.That is not good. f And then kill another man'cause he said it wasn't right.That is not proper.But they doing it in the name of God.So they got a message coming.I shudder for them.They done went too far.They got a terrible,terrible message coming.It's unintelligible likeﬁ. the Pope said.Again he said that people have reached a point of self destruct.He said they got to be carefu1.But,of course,ain't nobody unintelligible the Pope.Because the Pope supposed to be representing the Devil they say.And,of course,they don't listen to that.But I'm telling you,whatever you representing,he's tell- ing the truth and that's what the world got to recognize.If a _ person is telling the truth,forget his religion,forget his color, forget everything.It is the truth.And this truth where humanity is over there teetering on the verge of complete collapse and complete annihilation forever.And their soul pattern would be erased(and)they won't be remembered no more.Now they got to be careful.But I have stayed out of it'cause I knew they ain't going to treat me right.They wasn't going to pay me properly but I ' still have put beauty out there and I'm still doing it.I have to do that because I know there is a Creator and he does care about people but it's the same way like if a man got a dog and the dog gets sick and can't get well he kill him.And that's what the Creator going to do to mankind if they don't get out of this out as much in pity he going to get rid of them because if he loves them he will not let them stay in this condition and they got to go.If they sick and lame and hurt and all that the best thing he can do out of mercy and pity is to get rid of them. And.this way he'd save them from pain and suffering'cause he doesn't like that and the only way he can stop it is to get rid of people that's in that condition.Now the world trying to do something else and make it seem like it's alright and they going to heaven.But no.It's not like that.They can do it here. PH:I would say so. SR:'Cause they do a lot of ugly things here and they don't have .to go to heaven to do them and they don't have to go to hell. They do these ugly,mean,hateful(things)right here all over the planet.So then,therefore,they can do some good things here.They die here on this planet.Therefore they can be a model on this planet because the universe is big and the omniverse is out there holding it's arms out ready to embrace them and say come on and live.Now,if they can't see that and insist on following what is in the past,well,they just have to die.That's a1l.And it's right at your door.And I'm not going to lie to people for the sake of money and I'm not going to do it.I'm telling the ’ truth.Now they might not like it.I don't care.They on the verge of self destruct and when it happens it's going to happen fast. Because it is writtenzthey shall all be changed in a twinkling of an eye.But that change will be that they will be dead;Now, they think it means that they going to be into immmortality. But it works two ways.Whenever a person dies they go through a change.That's it.But the change will be where they will be dead and people are dying now in the twinkling of an eye.One minute they here,next minute they not.Totally unexpected,too. One more unintelligible where people have no inkling of that they going to die and all at once something happens and they dead.Now,I'm dealing with equations and I'm not out there talk- ing about saving people because that ain't too good.It is not too good because if you say something you go and put it in the bank.You put it in the bank and this God also puts people in a bank.Now,the earth itself is called bank because,you know,they talk about the banks of a river don't they? ~ PH:(Indicates yes) SR:And they talking about the earth.So they put them down in the bank to save them.And they put them in the vaults,too'cause they got some vaults in the cemetary.You put them in the vaults to save them.So,now,behind this drummer(Eddie Jones)asking God to save him and the dog bit him,wel1 it ain't wise.It's not wise.I'm going to tell him,too. PH:That's a warning. SR:I'm going to warn him again.Do not be playing with God about saving because,you know,once John(Gilmore)was praying to God and he was reading the Bible and he asked God,say(he said),"Show me your tender mercies." PH:What happened? SR:The next day a flash fire came through his mother's apartment in Chicago and she had to flee for her life and was nothing saved but her.I told him don't ever pray that prayer again.(JG said), But he showed me tender mercies."But his mother lost everything. So he hasn't prayed that prayer since.Now,I'm talking about some- thing that my experiences in whatever you call this,1ife or what- ever it is.I'm talking about from personal experience that is dangerous to put any people over there associating with God. "Cause I heard a black man say,we1l,in six days God made the heavens and earth.On the seventh day he rested and ain't did a God damned thing since.At the time I was studying religion and ‘things.I was totally shocked.I just got out of college and I was shocked that a man could unintelligible say that about God.But I didn't doubt it.I 1istened.I listenend to a lot of men who had such great education and they were talking something else.And then one day I was in a train station late at night.Early in the morning rather and me and Richard(wilkinson)and some fellows in the band in this unintelligible in Philadelphia and a black man, he say,"well,God is with me.He's always with me and I don't mind telling the world he's with me and been with me.I don't mind telling the police or the man.I don't care who knows it.God is with me.But he's fucking me up."Now,I listenend to that,too. They didn't care uninte1ligible.And I told the band,"Don't say nothing.Do not say a word."we have nothing to do with it.But the man is telling the truth.And in about five(minutes)the police came.You know,he was talking loud and he told the police,"Yeah, you the man and I said that God's with me and I tell the man and you the man and I'm going to tell you.God is with me and I still say he's fucking me up;"Then the police got him by the arm and led him on down the steps.(Sun Ra chuckles and PH laughs)But,now that's just two examples I saw.Now,(the)other 'day,1ast week I was looking at TV and they was talking about a play that a black-man had written(possib1y August wilson).In the play the black man was saying,"Yeah,and God don't never do nothing for no black fo1ks.He give everything to white folks“ and he don't care nothing about me.And as far as I'm concerned, I don3t care nothing about him."And then he turned to the camera and said,"God can kiss my black ass."That's on TV.(SR and PH laugh)He shook his ass.(More 1aughter)And I sat there utterly astounded.what you think of that? ' * PH:That wasn't on that special channe1(cable access)you get in‘ New York City is it? SR:0h no.This was on the regular TV.It was on the newscast or something and they was talking about this fellow that written this play.It was part of the p1ay.(SR and PH laugh) PH:That's too much. SR:He's talking about God and turned his booty to the camera and shook it and said(that)God can kiss his black ass.Now,you see, that's these things I've told you.And then Ali,another fellow that was connected with us singing,one day he called me and told me that he had a vision where he saw God and God was sitting on a throne in a gold robe and all that,gold hat,and the room was‘ all golden with the rays coming from him and he(Ali)was buck naked in the back of the hall standing there and he came up(and) approached God and God told him(to)stand back.Don't you come near me.So he called me and asked me what the meaning of it(was). I said,"well,they say a man can't see God and 1ive.Now,you say you saw him.We1l,from what I hear,prepare to die.Now,I say,"Now, the fact that he told you to stand back means that you got a little while or maybe he just rejected you'cause God,I told you I said God is death.So(if) he accept you,you through.Now,of course,if he rejected you,you probably all through,too.You(are) in trouble."And three months later he died. PH:Really. SR:That's right.So I'm going by...well,you know,it's dangerous. .And I wouldn't be talking to people if I didn't realise there is something that they call God that's watching people very, very carefully.Seeing that they going to come to understand the truth of the bad things he's doing to them.And he increasing these bad things for people to wake up and say this is terrible. And they wou1d(be)telling the truth and would have given God his glory for being the worst possible thing to everbe on the planet. ‘Cause when you doing good things for him,they wouldn't give him no credit.Now he wants them to give him credit for doing these bad things to them.They got to give him credit.Now,they wouldn't give him credit for the nice blessings he,they better turn and give him credit for these awful things and Say you the best. That you messing me up.Now please stop your work.Don't work on me like that.And that's what they need to tell God because the Bible say the works of the world are evil and,you know, Italians,like,when they go,when the gangsters going to kill somebody they say they going to give them the works.(PH laughs) So,you know,they better go to school.They have to learn all these things and I just didn't make them up myself.I don't do that.I try to stay away from human beings because I know they in troub1e,troub1e,trouble and I shudder every time I look at one. It terrifies me to look at a human being and see their future. it's nothing but trouble,trouble,troub1e,troub1e.And I see it creeping up on them.Like,for ten years I been telling Elo(Omoe), Elo,you better stop smok(ing)'cause after a while it's going to be against the law to smoke.Now,on that law I'm telling him that (for)ten years.And now,today I was in,unintelligible seperate place for you to smoke.It's in New York in the Hotel Edison they got a restuarant and they got a special place over there for. smokers.On a corner...Today I went to the hotel and up in the front entrance they had no smoking.So you can't smoke in the restaurant at al1.(PH and SR 1augh)And I been telling him that. And then the planes talking about no(smoking).Every pleasure that man has known the Creator going to strike at it.They's not going to have no pleasure without him.And they can forget it. Now,he going to be striking there with diseases.All kind of trouble going to strike this planet untill they aknowledge one thingzthere is something superior to them.They must aknowledge there's something superior to them and it's watching them and it's messing them up.Just like that black man said.And they» would tell the truth.They would not tell the truth about the nice things that the Creator was doing.what he wanted them to do is to tell the truth and say how much happy and bad things he's doing to them.He is doing some of...the Bible say I will watch over them for evil.Now they've unintelligible.You know, it comes down to equations.I'm dealing with equations and that's the reason I to1d,I told unintelligible I'm working with evil and she said she wasn't going to publish that. PH:She would not or would?y SR:She said she wasn't. PH:Really? SR:Can't be putting that...I told her I unintelligible what I am. I'm not righteous.But if I'm not righteous I must be evil and wicked.I’m not perfect so I must be imperfect.If I'm imperfect then I'm evil and wicked.That's what I told her.And then she didn't understand.She didn't put that in there. PH:All I can say is then is hooray for evil. SR:But the point of it is that I said that because I'm talking from a spirit point of view and then later on I found out why I was saying it.And that is because they always talking about what Jesus said and he said an evil father knows how to do good works(and)good things for his children.So then I say I'm evil so I can do some good things for my children'cause the book says so.It does not say that a righteous man can do good things for his chi1dren.It said evil father.Not a righteous father.An evil father knows how to do good things for his children.I like that. Because that's an exit,you see. PH:It's a what? SR:Exit. PH:An exit. SR:Yeah.All you got to do is get up on the evil father and he can do some nice things for them.'Cause the book says so.That is if the evil father wants to accept them as his children.So it's very magnificant if they can see the point.It also says... it's got God saying I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.And the wicked would turn and do that which is right he shall save his soul a1ive.It gives a wicked person the oppor- tunity to be his own saviour.Now,the book is the truth but they use it to wrong way.Like some people have gotten so drunk off of righteousness that they feel that they got the authority and the right to kill another human being.That's called they right- eous but,you know,they're quite wrong.They're quite wrong.It's not proper what they doing and the world is going to see what happens to people who do these improper things in the name of God.Those people doing things like that in the name od God are in great danger.'Cause when you unintelligible it's going to be terrible,terrib1e,terrible.A PH:It'll be a lot worse than the dog bite.That's for sure. SR:Of course it is.And the world ain't got no excuse for what God did.Used to be God.He's ex—God now'cause he dropped that name.what he did,he went out and put a symbol out to the world showing his power where the world could remember(and)the world couldn't say there is no God'cause he put something on this V I planet for them to see him at work.All the time,twenty four hours a day.So if they look carefully they would see the handi- work of God speaking to all nations saying here I am,Look,here I am.And what he did(was)he went out there and he selected some people from one of the nations.Namely ones called negroes and he took them and he took their country,took their flag,took their armies,took their name(and)took everything away from them.And then he took them and he turned them over into the hands of the nations and made them servants of everybody.And all to show the world that he can protect you if you ain't got no army and no navy and no soldiers and no money and no nothing.And that's what happened to the so-called negroes.He put them in America(and) they didn't have no money for four hundred years.No army,no money,no name,no nothing.And this had never happened in the history of the world.And he did it deliberate1y.To show that he can protect a person if they don't have nothing.Not even an identity.And this is speaking to the world everyday.It says see. And every now and then he take some black folks and raise them up there in a high position.And they not getting up there them~ selves.He Pht them up there.He put them up there.He had took all these black folks and made them mayors.He is in control.Don't nothing happen on this planet unless the one called God knows about it.Nothing happens.And they watch very carefully.I know 'cause ever since I been a teenager I can feel somebody watching over my shoulder all the time.And I was feeling the truth'cause he's doing everybody like that. ~ ’ SR:I know I'm dealing with another kind of truth.And it's been happening to me a whole lifetime.Like one time we were coming... Vernel Fournier(drummer who played with Sun Ra in Chicago)and somebody else,another bass player in Chicago was driving along and all at once the car stopped and unintelligible and moving by and I said,"What's wrong."He said it's frozen gasoline on the highway."And I said,"Can't you put on the breaks?"He said,"No, if I put on the breaks it will slide.Ain't nothing you can do when you hit frozen gasoline."That's what he told me.He said, "You see all some cars that hit that lampost and thing over there and the police car?It's nothing they can do either.So, therefore I have to keep on moving.I can't put the brakes on. If I hit something I can't help it."And then I said one word and the car stopped on a dime.I said one word and that car put on the brakes and stood still.Now,that's what I'm dealing with.I cannot escape things like that.How can you explain that? And what word did I say?I said,"Father1"And the car stopped. Now again,we were coming from Milwaukee and it was snowing and 10 everything(and)we was in the van and the van hit a pocket of snow where it looked like it was the road but it wasn't the road,it was the edge of the road and it was over there like on a cliff.It was leaning over like a fourty five degree(angle). And a lot of times I don't be as1eep.I just be cogitating or something and I openend my eyes and the car was over there like that,like it was(going to)turn on over and I said,"God!"and then it stopped.Then they got out and they put it back on the road. And then a big truck passed by,and on the truck it had written in big letters,God's country.Now,I can't get away from these things otherwise I just go to Egypt and be on the desert or something and I can get out of the way.I'm not in politics or religion or anything 1ike(that).I'm not into that'cause it ain't got nothing to do with me.I just like to play my music and write and everything and deal with beauty and I'm not trying to con- vert nobody or nothing like that or be no ruler over them.No, but it is very difficult for me because more and more people, they be listening to what I'm saying(and)interviewing and all that and I know it ain't going to help them for me to talk to them unless they change.And they can't change because I ask them to.They have to change because they see conditions for them are bad and they headed for self destruct if they don't turn.They have to with all their heart realise something is wrong.And people out getting hurt.You know(there are)a lot of people killing their families and comitting suicide and that. Unintelligible.And a lot of people go out so far they go out and pick(up)their gun and start shooting people.Innocent people. now.You've got that happening.It's complete chaos,you know. It's complete chaos.A man was on TV yesterday,unintelligible trouble or some kind of trouble,they were interviewing him from prison.He killed one hundred and thirty five people or there- about.They asked him did he got some kind of sexual feeling out there?He said no.Do you feel any remorse for what you did?No. well,why did you kill those people?I just sleep better when I kill. PH:(Laughs)A cure for insomnia. SR:when the last person I killed and they caught me I begged them to just kill me and give me the death penalty.But they wouldn't do it.They say I didn't know what I was doing.But if I get out I'm going to kill me some more so I can sleep. PH:So they gave him life instead,right? SR:well,he supposed to get out in,maybe,maybe five or six years. Because they wouldn't give him the death sentence...so he up for 11 paro1e.But if he said if I get out I know I'm going to do the same thing.That's why I asked them to kill me and get rid of me because I'm going to...the first somebody when I was going to kill somebody,the first somebody I thought about killing was my mother'cause I hated her.I think my hate for humanity started with me hating my mother.She was a prostitute,you know. All these things right on TV.Right on TV.And I be looking at them and wondering whether the rest of the world seen it'cause it's in Philadelphia.And I tell you,this is a strange city. If I had the money I'd let them have it.You know I own a house here.I'd let them have it.But I'm stuck here.For some reason I suppose...well,I just...that's it.Unintelligible I said that Philadelphia is the headquarters of death.If I could change things here I'd help the whole world.And I still say...it's the city of death,its headquarters.And here's a little research you can research on.Somebody told me that the original name was Philadelphia,is the city(called)the cemetary with lights.That's the original name of the city.I don't know where they got it from.But at night,late at night(when)you come into Philadelphia it looks like there nobody here.It looks like a cemetary.It feels like it.It's most amazing.So whenever I go out of Philadelphia I feel better.It's something here and it ain't too good.They got something called radon gas here,too.It'd be some kind of way,it makes people sick and do things to them and I saw something on e TV yesterday about a family's servant discovered it was in their house. PH:Yeah,it comes up out of the ground.I've heard about that. SR:It mess people up.well anyway,I am talking more and more telling people the truth.Another kind of thruth.Well,it's most amazing I would even dare to do something like that but I'm speaking from the spirit and I have to.It just comes out.It comes out.A pure truth.And they can't shake it(get rid of it). I'm talking about equations.Now,a lot of...you got five billion people on this planet.It's a shame for five billion people to die.But they going to die unless something comes up to stop it. Now,I'm just one person and I'm telling(them to)listen at this. Like,I was on cable TV with Don Cherry... PH:Oh,really?Today? 'SR:No,that was,it was on there a week ago.MTV,that comes out your way,doesn't it? PH:Yes it does. 12 SR:well,they showed it in New York.So I imagine it's coming out...I'm playing piano and Don Cherry is playing trumpet. Before that I was ta1king.The man asked me,he said,"well,you got a lot of things(happening)and help a lot of people.As a man you really have done quite a bit of things..."And I said, "Don't call me nothing like that."He said,"what?"Do not call me man.I'm not man.I'm an angel.So he was quite startled. (SR chuckles and PH laughs)I said man only uses five percent of his brain and I'm not going to be nothing like that. PH:That'1l usually stop people.That'll stop them in their tracks,make them think. SR:I use more than five percent of my brain so he ain't going to put me over in that class that I'm just going to use five percent of my brain.I'm not going to be like that.Don’t call me nothing associated with that.If that's what they are,that's what they are.Just don't come near me.(SR and PH laugh)And the announcer,he was,they put the camera on him(and)his mouth fell open(and)he was 1ooking,he was shocked by my words.Then he said, well,it's time for announcements or things like that... PH:Time for a station break. SR:I said,yeah,what I'm talking about is an exit for humanity. And he said it's time for my exit now.(SR and PH laugh)He went over and got off the air but it was really funny'cause they put the camera on him(and)caught his reaction of me saying that I'm an angel.I said because I'm on a higher plane than a man.A man can't do too much.He's limited.I used to think he had some 'power(but)he ain't got none.He's limited.He be trying to do some good things but they all turn bad.So then he does not have the power.Unintel1igible an angel,I'm going to do some good things. I'm going to do some bad things,too.Because I'm a bad angel. But every now and then I make a mistake and do something good. I've made a lot of mistakes through the Years but,anyway,it is...and tomorrow,the day after,a magazine called Elle,I think, that's a fashion magazine.They want to put me over in the fashion.They going to come out and photograph me in my space stuff. PH:Beautiful. SR:And I hear that's a good magazine. PH:It's a big magazine full of color...‘ 13 SR:And they want to put me in there.So you see.it's all kind 'of things.I'm really worshipping a Creator that's fantastic. And he keeps me out there in the...l have to really always see that the quality of my music is up.If I don't make no money I have to have beauty out there and I have to have un- intelligible out there and I'm doing that.And I'm doing that... like California now.It's very expensive to come out there so I might have to have fourteen pieces but I'm getting ready to call up now and see whether I can have fifteen because,see,I got two drummers and one of them,Bil1y Kaye,I could do without.But actually that's what we been doing lately in New York with Buster(Smith)and Billy Kaye.He played with Lou Donaldson.He's a mainliner,a mainstream(musician)... ' ’ PH$Lou Donaldson I don't think would have anything to do with you,would he? ' . ' SR:Oh yeah,Lou Donaldson,there,I knew him in Chicago.And he al- ways,whenever we p1aying,Lou Donaldson shows up and stands in wings.And he be saying the band is really playing. PH:All right-well,that's good to hear. SR:Aurther Blythe,too.we was on the same program with him.And then they put his band on...they put his band on last and we was on first. ' PH:Oh no.(PH and SR laugh)i SR:What did they do?They put his band,yeah...and so the next night they put him on first.He wouldn't go on last.That still didn't do no good.So then he...Aurther Blythe say,well,he never going to play on a program with us again unless he play with the band. PH:If you can't beat them,join them,you know. SR:No,he wasn't going to do that again.Not have no group up against his band.He'd play with the band.But otherwise forget it.He's not going to have that. PH:That's good. SR:That's really quite a compliment. PH:That's good to hear. 14 SR:So anyway,I was going to bring Billy Bang out there but Billy,he got a son and so his wife took the son and put him over there with him so he got to take care of him and his son in-law is a teenager and you have to watch over teenagers all the time.This time he can't get away so I doubt whether I'll bring him.I'm going to bring the Brazilian instead.He has such a nice personality.He play drums.I might have two of them or three there but I just got to watch my transportation because I told you I wasn't able to get together from the American side and this transportation is_coming from Germany.And they just sent us fourteen tickets so,you know,I really intend to have Julian Priester though and I think that's what I want to do. PH:He's up in Seattle. SR:Yes.He'll be there(San Francisco)with us.He went to Europe" with us because he played with us at first(Chicago in the 50's), you know.And I just reached back and got him and he played,he made a record with us with A&M and unintelligible might say why should I go and build up somebody?(Because)Julian has paid a lot of dues and really feels what I am doing. PH:He was playing with you when he was a teenager,I guess. SR:That's right. PH:He made the live record in New York_a few months ago?The A&M thing? - SR:A&M.Yes.well,anyway I'm going to take Julian with me.It's just,in a sense,he's teaching school at the University of wash- ington(actually it was the Cornish Institute of Music in Seattle, washington)and he have to pay if he unintelligible pay them to hold the job there but still it makes more sense to me,wel1,I got to have quality out there.The world needs some beauty and they need some coordination and precision.It's too bad I don't really have records to sell out there.That would help me but I can work on the book thing. PH:Oh yeah,I got some books for you. SR:And these other things which I added and it's fantastic and I really intend to send it to you because we not leaving untill the fourth,you see.We'll leave the day before we supposed to be there. » PH:So you're going to leave tuesday April fourth on an airplane? 15 SR:Yes,it looks like it's going to be that way. _—.._—_—.._—————_———_..._——-...——_..___;..——————-._..—._——___——.._.———..___..___— SR:(Speaking of the Disney music)I'm featuring particularly a Second Star to the Right and Wish Upon A Star.Numbers like that. And since Danny(Thompson),he might be there but maybe I won't bring him...because I got a whole repertoire without him,you see. Tailor made things.Because he was absent from us,you know,through his romancing and his marriage.I got a whole repertoire he know nothing about.'Cause I don't be waiting on nobody.I keep on‘mov- ing.So then I'd have to in order for him to play in the band,I'd have to change the whole repertoire again and find someplace for him to be in there.So he with us but...he's a problem.At this time I can't compromise.I'm talking about precision and disci- pline.I have to do that. I PH:So I should check with you,I guess,you'd probably know the details Sunday. SR:well,I'll be here tomorrow and,well;you know,this photograph . thing I was telling you about.That magazine(Elle).They want to come all the way to Philadelphia and photograph me.I was saying I could go to New York but maybe I should let them come to Phila- delphia. ' PH:well,yeah.That would be good.So they come over Friday or Saturday,something like that? . SR:Saturday.I was thinking about going to New York and having to make photograph at the Indigo unintelligible Club which would be a feather in my cap for me to bring unintelligible in their place and they say it‘s alright.So,oh well,there you are...Well,I'm going to try anf get these things to you so that you can,in fact,if I send them you will probably get them Satur- day. ’> SR:Yeah,I think that's the best thing to get it out there to people so they can read it and you see what a book can cause. Look what Satanic Verse caused(over)the whole world} 16 Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...June 17,1988........ PH:Was Michael Ray on the tour?(Sun Ra has just returned from a European tour) SR:Yes,he was on the tour. ‘PH:who else?It was Tyrone(Hil1),Michael Ray... SR:Tyrone was there and Martin Banks and the usual sax section. Kenny(wi1liams)was there. PH:Kenny on the baritone,right? SR:Yeah,he was there. PH:(Did)Danny(Thompson)go? SR:No,he's talking about getting back in the band.I don't know.He went through his love extravaganza and all that.He's not with his wife now.Seperated quick.I had to get him an apartment to stay in(and)pay for it. - PH:Last time,before you left,he was staying at Pat's(Patrick) place.Pat was out of town. SR:Pat's p1ace,that's the apartment I pay for.Pat moved. PH:where's Pat living now? SR:Boston.At least he's in Boston right now.Pat can't stand stil1.He's up there waiting on them.Every time he gets a chance he runs to see his mother,he runs to see his chi1dren.He can't stand still. PH:wel1,that's good.He's one step ahead of everybody in the band,sounds 1ike,you know. . SR:He rented a car and he drove up there.I reckon he's lonely or something.he have to keep moving. PH:You working on some new compositions? SR:I haven't been doing too much since I got back.I got my instrument up here and everything but I had to take charge 17 for my transportation and everything.Danny's still getting over his love spe1l.And Barday was with us and then he,he went out.I don't know.Something be taking people over. PH:what happenend to Barday? SR:well,he(was)drunk(for)one thing and laying out on the floor in the dressing room in Germany or one of them places.So after that I couldn't trust him to take care of no business.the bus driver had to take over and take care of business unintelligible. I just can't trust nobody that going to do that.He caused me to lose one of my bags with my costume in it(and with)him being like that(drunk)it wasn't nobody to watch.Somebody must have stolen it out of the dressing room or misplaced it or something. That really upset me'cause we didn't lose nothing else.So it seem that when somebody around me who ain't proper I have to pay for them being around me.It's some kind of law about me.If I'm trying to help somebody that's doing improper things i lose something.I suffer a penalty you might say.And that's the reason I'm going to get more and more careful about who I hire because I have to pay. PH:That's true.In one form or the other that's true.That's too bad. SR:And like he was nice and quiet and everything and then I can't trust the nice and quiet ones in there because they might go out.Something be taking hold of people and I have to recog- nise that they're not themselves at times.They like Doctor Jekyll and Mr.Hyde.I don't know what cause it but...it's true. PH:You been playing the keyboard up there?You been playing your Yamaha Dx? SR:I got another instrument.I bought three new instruments. PH:Oh really?what's that about now? SR:One of them is a Yamaha but it's got some nice drum effects on there and the other one is just a strictly a drum machine and the other one is a...has some nice space effects on it.So I got three keyboard instruments. PH:what kind are they? 18 SR:One of them is a Korg.Yes,it's a very pretty instrument. That's what attracted me in the first(p1ace)...white and... it's got nice space effects on that one.They call it 1999 space sounds.And then I use that most...very intriguing sounds. And then I got...I got this other instrument.It's a sort of British instrument and it's got,like,pads,round pads or some- thing on it and...it makes drum sounds.Simi1ar to things like that.It's very nice.It's not a keyboard instrument,it's got these little pads on it. PH:It's a drum instrument. SR:Yes.It's electric,you know.And then I got the other instru- ment which almost looks like a (Yamaha)DX 7 but it's got some very nice drum effects,too.I can just play drums with both hands now.Two sets of drums or even one.I got some compositions like that.Basically I've been dealing with the rythym and the sound of the drum. PH:And that's a keyboard. SR:It's a keyboard. PH:And what name is that? SR:I believe it's a Yamaha.It must be a Yamaha.I bought it... where did I buy it?In Germany I presume. PH:Did you have a special birthday tribute to Irving Berlin a few weeks ago when you were out there? SR:No. PH:This was his one hundreth birthday a month ago. SR:Unintelligible not to pleased with America right now.They don't like Reagan.So the less I talked about America the better they liked it.They don't like Reagan.They consider the United States is nuts to even have somebody like that president That's their opinion.'Cause they be asking me about it. . . . ; .9...:.:,..,..s:\.s..:.. . 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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-23
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 24 (August, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-08-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Ir»... VII: vv IL? I“ y....p»:’.ovl.|n rLDiv.I.b||... 7'‘ I in ..... -,..,_V , _ A ‘Ainit nobody in America told me that,white or black.So here“s“ . .somebody,a German_smoking hash,he said...you got the’spirit.. / .just to look at them.And that's where I was playing.Theaters p 5 . ‘. V'PH:I'was.curious,have I =\ Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...June l1,1988..;...;.. $un Railtjs too bad when I see Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock and all them folks got money and don't have as much to offer as w_me.1t doesn't make me feel good about this country.I'm»offer— ‘\V ing nothing but beauty,beauty,beauty and creativity and I look gand see these other.people that don't have as much talent(and) _that's not creative.I don”t know what to think.And I've been. doing it a long time.Every time I play I put beauty out there. Iwdon't see how anybody could be that stupid and not see that \‘what I'm doing is of value.It's‘discouragi...
Show moreIr»... VII: vv IL? I“ y....p»:’.ovl.|n rLDiv.I.b||... 7'‘ I in ..... -,..,_V , _ A ‘Ainit nobody in America told me that,white or black.So here“s“ . .somebody,a German_smoking hash,he said...you got the’spirit.. / .just to look at them.And that's where I was playing.Theaters p 5 . ‘. V'PH:I'was.curious,have I =\ Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...June l1,1988..;...;.. $un Railtjs too bad when I see Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock and all them folks got money and don't have as much to offer as w_me.1t doesn't make me feel good about this country.I'm»offer— ‘\V ing nothing but beauty,beauty,beauty and creativity and I look gand see these other.people that don't have as much talent(and) _that's not creative.I don”t know what to think.And I've been. doing it a long time.Every time I play I put beauty out there. Iwdon't see how anybody could be that stupid and not see that \‘what I'm doing is of value.It's‘discouraging me.Rea11y...stare ted to change my citizenship to Germany.I met a German on-the’ ‘street and‘he was saying,he said,"You know,I heard you in Berlin. wonderful,wonderfu1 band."He say,we1l,he was smoking a cigarette, "po you want to smoke?"(SR repliesJ,"No,not today."Then I found ° out later he;was smoking hash.But he was saying unintelligible, gf’ He‘said,"You know what?You got/the spirit.You got the spirit." PH:Wel1,that7s so true.~ ‘, A '/ ' ' _' 3SR:Itfs'amazing.And_he couldn't ékpress himse1f.He was speech? less and he couldnﬂt describe the music the way he felt’ about it.So that made me feel good but here in America,I don't_ know about this place.I feel like am alien.here where these. I -peop1e...they're not exposed to cu1ture,you_know,1ike Europe. .They got these nice...wel1,they_got such wonderful,beautiful theaters.Really from way back unintelligible.It's beautifu1”r and opera houses_and I played in some underground p1aces,too you might say.But they got so many theaters over there'cause \the culture is government‘backed,you see.and the people over, _there don't have to come.out.The world comes to them. But Americans know vefyhlittle about European countries oxaést f- (what)they read in the history books.And.history books don’tt describe things,I was travelling by_bus(and)I saw Germany for the first time.Six weeks of seeing Germany.Six weeks of seeing 'cities~that I didnﬂt even-know existed.Seeing cities that's not on the map that nobody knows about.It was a fantastic experience. It was start1ing,you know.M A ' ‘ ., 1 A‘ p \/ / . you heard anything from Egypt? SR:We11,I‘was planning to leave Europe and go to Egypt to stay a while but then I had to come back here because of the previous « I contract with Sweet Basil.I should have cancelled it but I star- zted to cancel everything in America and just stay unintelligibleu _/.. / It's just I had these previous commitments and I had to come back but I didn't intend to come back. PH:Tomorrow night you're going to be up in Boston.You'll be back home in Philadelphia...what,monday,you think? SR:I might not come back to Philadelphia... PH:Wel1,that's true.You're playing Sweet Basil next week,right? SR:Yes. SR:If I could change my citizenship I could get over there _ (Europe).That's one way to do it.If I'm not doing nothing here,, I might as well be part of something that will help me. f PH:You could probably spend a year there going from town to town I'm sure,you know. " ” SR:I wouldn't come back to America(and)waste my time.I spent a I ‘ ‘ V V PH:wel1,I'll come over and see you if you do. SR:I could do many wonderful things because the environment and a different feeling.Everywhere I go I'm at home'cause I'm just‘ going to play my music and I got to create.It doesn't matter what country I'm in. ‘ ~ PH:That's true. SR:Besides that,when I play something it obliterates nationality. They just be peop1e.And they act that way and they very appre- ciative of it.It's...like I played for some school children there from five years old to about eleven. ’ PH:Is that right? SR:Yeah,they put them in my hands and(I)talked to them.I was over in Germany talking to the sub teenagers. '“ V PH:was this at their school? SR:At their school.Eleven o'clock in the morning.And the Japan- ese were there.The six representatives from Japan was there. J _ ’ v<7T You see,a1l kind of things are happening for me and...it makes me happy on one hand and makes me sad on the other that I spent all this time in America with no recognition,real1y,and no money and here these other people can appreciate something I'm doing. SR:I'11 be here(Edison Hotel)or somewhere around here.I was really trying to get an apartment here because it's so many things happening for me in New York and don't nothing happen for me in Philadelphia but spending money.So why should I stay somewhere and just spend money and don't never make none never, really. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...June 18,1988....... SR:Hello,Peter? PH:Yeah.Sun Ra. SR:Rashaan said you called me...I'm getting ready,I go out and get a connection for my instrument so I'm still at the Edison but I got to go to the music store now and I thought I'd call you before I left. PH:So how was last night? SR:0h,fantastic.They acting the same way they acting in Europe, rea1ly.They getting the message.They got it.Standing ovation. PH:what did you play last night?what compositions? SR:we1l,I played Can You Take It? for one thing.I played that out for them and then I created some things.Every night I played something different.I did Retrospect and I did Carefree.That's two of my numbers.Earlier I did Friendly Ga1axy...I moved on a lot of planes.Tonight I'm going to do some more things.Some older things and create something new'cause the people,it's fresh to them and they like it. PH:what's that I hear in the background?Sounds like a flute or something. SR:That's something I...a tape that I made some time ago.I'm going back to take inventory.I take inventory better in New York than I do in Philade1phia'cause somebody always calling.It don't be about nothing but,I'm up in this hotel and I got a two room apartment here and I like that.And I can go right down the street to the music store.In Philadelphia the music store is way down- town.So it's more convenient for me to be in New York.I'm think- ing about moving here.If I play here more than I unintelligible. Pﬁtwhat is that composition? SRL:Let's~see...Just now it was Just Friends...what you heard just now was Just Friends. PH:Is that a flute or vibraphone or something? SR:That's flute and then an electronic instrument,I mean piano. That's Ramona(sings).I got a new treatment on it though.All my numbers I got a new treatment on it and people hear the melody and they can see how I arranged it and see the difference be- tween me and other musicians so this is it,you know.I got to stretch out and get some more musicians and maybe(from)all over the world.Everybody's studying jazz and all they need is just someone to help them and I might have to do that(and)bypass America.They move too s1ow.The world is getting ahead of them in electronics and everything.America is just,you might say it's through unless they wake up and do something about the situation. Mainly about me.I'm supposed to have a lot of money here in Amer- ica as much as I've offered them.They have to do something about that.They must see that I get some money.A lot of it.'Cause here are these prize fighters(boxers)and everybody else making a lot of money(and)here I am giving them beauty and I've given them wisdom.I've given them hope and potential for the future and I don't have nothing.It's not proper for anybody representing the Creator to be in the condition I'm in where I have to buy things and I need things.I need the best unintelligible they got in America.And I give...well,uninte1ligible got to work with and why should I unintelligib1e?They have to face it'cause if they don't Japan will and Germany will.I just go and stay with them. PH:Yeah,the Japan tour should be very interesting. SR:Quite so. PH:I'm sure everyone in Japan is just waiting. SR:well,they asked Michael Jackson to come there first.They like him.But he's one man,one person and then he with a band.They haven't had no band to come over like this.Let's see what they .. .u. going to do.(we'1l be)playing pure jazz.So I got to go now'cause I got to find this plug'cause I bought another synthesizer.I got three now. PH:What was the one you just got? SR:Another Yamaha.It's not a Dx—7.It's something else.I didn't even bring my Dx—7'cause I was so interested in this one.A PSR— 60,1 think.And then I got another,I got a Korg,too and I got a drum machine.I got another drum machineya Yamaha drum machine. That's three things I bought in Europe. PH:Were you playing those last night? SR:Yes,but not as much as I did the night before’cause I mostly I featured John a lot and I featured.Bi11y Bang a 1ot.He was with us each night.And he's playing.He playing like they never heard him play before.It's too bad I can't unintelligible with me in California but things are tight.I don't have no,now,see,now the next ten days we'll be off.It's too bad we didn't book something in California but I'll be off untill then. SR:I need me some more instruments.I need a whole laboratory of instruments.I started electronic stuff you might say and I need to...they can't really handle it'cause they don't have the ideas. I got the ideas from melodies and harmony and everything and I should be able to express that and put that out there for people. That's where money comes in and they're not giving me much. Conversation with John Gilmore,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.... Oakland,Ca1ifornia...November l,1991......................... John Hinds:Hey,how you feeling John? John Gilmore:Pretty good,not too bad. JH:Hey,you're looking... JG:A little better. Peter Hinds:Got a little rest. JG:Took a nice bath and got a little rest.Feeling a little better. JH:That‘s great. JG:with these herbal medicines,you know,it just takes a while. Once you been down your resistance gets down.It takes a while to build it back up.So it's got to go degree by degree and rest a lot,you know.Try to eat,you know,the right foods. PH:It seems like you'll get a chance in the next few weeks.Not too much travel...stick around. JG:And be right in the neighboorhood. JH:It seems like you're back to your old self.Yesterday you were pretty worn out a little bit.Maybe you don't feel it but you look like it.Got that Gilmore laugh back. JG:I think I'm doing a little better,you know,than I was. JH:The cheerfu1ness,the twinkle in the eye.That's good. PH:It's rough,that bus ride yesterday(and)back to Seatt1e.Not too much rest... JG:Airports,yeah that's kind of rough.'Cause you don't get no rest,you know.'Cause it's no rest when you got to operate off you're reserve energy and if you ain't got no reserves... JH:You're in trouble. J JG:Yeah,that's when you need your reserves,when you don't get much rest,see?You need to have reserve energy where you just not really dragging but if your reserves is gone you(are)a11 the way down. JH:What do you usually like to eat? JG:we11,I like fish a lot and chicken but I mean,you know,not having anybody to cook for you and what not,you know,it's difficult trying to do it yourself.You can't eat right at the right time you want because at the time that you maybe need to you don't feel like cooking.You're doing something else,you know,and you wind up eating late at night,you know,which is kind of bad. JH:Then you go to sleep. JG:Yeah,on a big mea1.I don't think that's too good,you know. I don't think it is.But I mean when you don't have the con- venience of getting those mea1s,you know,on time and stuff it's difficult. JH:Sti1l playing the same sax? JG:Yeah,sti11 got the same one.I had it fixed by a Russian dude before in Eng1and.Yeah,a Russian dude repaired(it).He did a good job.So it's playing pretty good right now. . ,Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...June 18,l986....... Peter Hinds:I saw the artic1e.It was a week ago friday(that) they had a preview article.Did you see that in the New York Times? Sun Ra:The preview,yes. PH:And they had a real nice picture(of Sun Ra and John Cage). Now,was that at John Cage's house? SR:Yes,up on the roof. SR:This is not the kind of world for romance now.Too many bad things are happening}A person's got to really be alert(and) adjust himself to another kind of world.I'm talking about that all the time...The reason this planet is so messed up(is)'cause they have leaders and you warn them about things and they won't listen.I'm finding that out more and more.You can warn a person about his destiny and everything but it is not going to be good if they don't 1isten.They go right on just like you get a horsem out the side and they'll go right back in.That's what made me have to change my whole thing'cause the French government is really escalating now.The people I had representing me,they just practically snowed him under. ‘ PH:Really. $ SR:Yeah,I told him that.I said this is so big,what I'm talking about.He's from Trinidad.Uninte11igible because you better get over there with the Frenchmen and unintelligible and then work with him.But he didn't want to do that.He trying to do it by himself.They finally defeated him.They were talking to him and everything but I said no,they just talking to you like that but they don't intend to do nothing untill I come there.He thought he had it made but it wasn't like that.So he had to give up. Now,they got a group over there that got about fifty to sixty saxophones.They call it urban sax.They wear space stuff.They want to be with me.They(are)organized.That means the French government would really get over there and then they,you know, it's their country and they want their musicians to be elevated. But in the meantime he went to the American embassy which I told him he should never do that.But I say they going to get interes- ted too and they going to want to be in on it too.They should do it here but they wouldn't want it to be done over there unless ‘IA: >||rv.L.l|Il|L.‘{bu_l’» :o||»L:..|5:||I||l... I. .. I ‘L: L ‘\. 7 Ivllillv tlrllnb. I ‘ :.s....»|KII vosl. v { [Ell alkriry I v T ..b1lL.:I r ‘u I they were over in it some way.If they get over in it some folks will think it's CIA or something.So he created some problems by going to them(and)asking them to help.You know,the English did that when I went there.They went to the American Embassy and asked for help bringing us.They gave them the use of a type- writer.All I'm talking about,everything everyday comes true and yetr I get no respect here.I saw on the TV just now where a white fellow who was a country and western singer,(I believe his last name was Reed—PH)he was over there in Russia and he died.And he'd been over there for years and they said that his own people(Amer— icans)didn't appreciate him but he was(receiving)standing ova- tions and big crowds come to him in Russia but over here they don't know nothing about him.But he still retained his American citizenship.But I'm just showing you...I knew they neglected some black people like that but I didn't know they neglected their own,too.Very bad.The rest of the world can appreciate ta1ent.Don't care where it comes from.It's bad.I'm really want- .ing to move to South America somewhere.You see,I'm getting dis- couraged. PH:Getting back to the John Cage(concert).How was that? SR:That was nice,you know.But it was a small place.Only one hun- dred and fifty people could cpme in there.And they charged twenty dollars. PH:So what happenend? SR:Well,he didn't play an instrument.He had his stopwatch there and he would chant something and then he would lay out for about five minutes(of)silence and then he would chant something else and he'd lay out about two minutes and go by the clock.And then’ he'd chant something else(and)he might lay out one minute and chant something else(and)lay out for six minutes.whatever the clock said.He had it written down there how long to lay out.The audience,they was silent.They didn't say nothing.Then when I came in...I took my(Yamaha)DX-7.So I played with him and then I said a poem that I had written.I told(them)twenty years ago and the words went:Around the Earth circles the eternity of the damned air.And that's what's happening now.This nuclear waste and stuff circling around up there.But I wrote that twenty years ago.Around the Earth circles the eternity of the damned air.We need new air. So I read it to him.I got a lot of other things that I haven't published that I read and it fit the situation exactly what's happening today.But since I'm not a poitician or a militant... I've been...I've..I can't...I'm beginning to see where I shouldn't get involved.I need to go somewhere.South America... Up in the high mountains or something that is remote.Because I'm getting discouraged'cause I can see what is happening to chi1dren.I can see the world just disintegrating right before my very eyes...And the people don't seem to realize what's happening.That's the astounding part of it.They can't see it. It's just like I said...The black church can't unintelligible nothing'cause they got to have a different system.And sure enough they done stopped the bussing.'Cause it don't do any good to bus them because they can't learn by this system.They can forget it. They never will and therefore they can do a lot of things worth- while for this country.To get people educated according to the way they learn.They have to learn by symbo1s.Things like that. They can't learn the white way.we1l...it's bad. PH:Did you and John Cage have a chance to talk the other night? SR:we talked for quite sometime at his house and we was in the dressing room talking to one another and unintelligible and than the last thing that we did where he was chanting and everything I played with him.I mean I played on the chimes on my Dx-7... You know,softly in the background.They talking about putting a record out of it. PH:I wanted to ask you...In the article they indicated this was a benefit for the Meltdown company. SR:They talking about it(the record).They called up today about itO PH:what did they say? SR:They wanted to make a record. PH:You want to do that? SR:Well,I told you being in the world makes me want to run. PH:So you're sort of undecided right now? SR:I don't see what good it's going to do.This whole thing is almost just complete anarchy.It might be too late and then again maybe not.The United States has gotten out of a lot of things where it looked like they wasn't going to make it.But this time you got a whole world in a uproar.It's most dreadful,you know,to contemplate.Brother against brother,black against the black, black against white,white against white.It's all unintelligible. Unintelligible things going on.It's incredible and it isn't the 10 Jews fighting the Jews.It's the Irish fighting against the English.Iraq...Arabs fighting against the unintelligible can't last too long without the whole thing falling.And that's the reason I believe South America is the best place for me to go there.They got unintelligible'cause there no unintelligible stuff going around South America. PH:You've never been down there before,have you? SR:Never been nowhere but Mexico.Mexico's a hard way to go right from here'cause of the earthquakes and all that. PH:That's an interesting thought.Duke Ellington went down through South America about l970,'68,'69. SR:So did Louis Armstrong.Went out there too.They had to put a baseball(catcher’s)mask on his face because the women was com- ing up and feeling his lips'cause he was making the high notes and(couldn't understand)how anybody could do that.A baseball mask. . PH:How was your your?was that received well? SR:New England?we1l,it was very gratifying.The people with‘ standing ovations everywhere.A lot of booking agents(and)a lot of people were skeptical about me coming up here.They said it would be too far out for people and wouldn't(be)too many people show up.But that's not true.Everywhere we went we had a packed house.Everywhere we went we had a total response.Unintelligible. So then they found out that their cash registers were ringing and people were coming out to hear us and they were singing with us. This booking agent was surprised.They wanted us to come back up to some more places up there. PH:what's your favorite brand of piano? SR:Un unknown brand.I like the pianos they make in Italy but they don't sell them over here.They not made...not mass pro- duced.They're made by a master.It's really fantastic unte1- ligible. 11 Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...June l9,1986......... Sun Ra:He1lo. Peter Hinds:There you are Sun Ra.Was that Ronald(Wilson)? SR:That was John Ore. PH:OK.Does he have a case for his bass? SR:He was saying he couldn't go to Europe tomorrow. PH:Is that right.So,what now? SR:We1l,I already had gotten Ro1lo(Radford)anyway.I wasn't going to take him(John Ore)anyway. PH:who's going to Europe? SR:I got the same sax section and unintelligible Pat Patrick. That's six sax...And then I got Tyrone(Hi1l)and I got Boogaloo (Marvin Smith)...drummer.Bruce(Edwards)and now Rollo and...A1 Evans now. PH:He's been with you... SR:About twenty years. PH:I remember him on the old records but he's come back to work with you lately? SR:Well,he been working with me all along. PH:0n and off. SR:Yeah.On and off because he stays in New York and sometimes he's difficult for transportation for his getting here...I got a New York crew and a Philadelphia crew.We either going or they coming here.So,you see,they increase the problems sometimes. Like June(Tyson)stays in New York.Problems when she can't re- hearse with us when she should.we'd be far ahead of her some- times she don't know some songs we doing'cause she can't be here every day.We rehearse every day. PH:You talk about the Philadelphia crew.Do you have some people who work with you around(town)?Like at Grendall's Lair.P1aces like that. SR:wel1,John(Gilmore)and them(Tyrone Hill,James Jacson and Danny Thompson),me.we the Philadelphia crew but we stay here. I call it the Philadelphia crew'cause we stay here and they stay,June(Tyson)stays in New York and so does Al Evans and so does Bruce(Edwards)you might say.He stays in Jersey and John Ore stays in Jersey and New York,too.He supposed to be in both places and Rol1o(Radford)stays in Chicago.So it's difficult in that way but then Pat(Patrick)plays bass,too.So I have to always be ready just like any person.The last minute John Ore talking about he can't go.But I had it figured out that he couldn't anyway.I told Danny(Thompson)...we have to get Rollo. I got to call Rollo now and tell him to leave tonight'cause I had been putting him off'cause his name wasn't on the ticket and she(the booking agent)had made a mistake,you know,and put John Ore's name...But,anyway,he got a reservation so I can tell him that it's definate.well,that's the way it goes.That's the reason I always hate to unintelligible in advance of the planed ‘cause I'm going to be there but they don't sometimes.It be like that John Ore.Last minute... PH:So you got to call Rollo and tell him... SR:Rollo's been calling me every day except today. SR:I was telling Eddie(Jones),a friend of mine,about John Ore. He'd be calling up three or four times a day and then the last minute he can't go. PH:He has some other work going on? SR:No.He's married,too.And sometime he be talking about his wife.We played a whole week at Sweet Basil and he didn't show up.Something with his wife was something wrong.But I still going to look to use him but that's it this time. PH:That's a last minute cancellation.That can(cause)problems. SR:Well,you know,it's the forces doing that.A lot of men could be doing worthwhile things but there are some forces that's blocking them and have them go in another direction which they think will be succesful.But it's the wrong direction and they won't be succesfu1'cause they not true to their word and they're not true to themselves and(when) a man get like that he might get right up to the top and then he'll fall.People not free down here.They think they are.That's the craziest 1ie(that's)ever been 13 _...._:....._ ___ _..........._:__.._..._.....» told.No,they reap what they sow.Sometimes they reap what they don't sow.Unintelligib1e so that's good.He's(John Ore) a good bass player.Sometimes his attitude ain't right.Don't get along too well...Rollo got the personality.He gets along...So he's not as old as Ore and not as experienced but I had told Danny,I said, "I think I'm going to take Rollo."So I got to call him now and tell him he better be getting himself up here. PH:Are you going to be doing any recording over there? SR:we1l,always I say no.'Cause I'm not really interested in it. This planet has gone so far untill maybe I can't help it.I'm at that point believing it's too late.But maybe not so if it happens I will record.But the last time I made one producer very mad ‘cause I said I didn't have anything I wanted the public to hear. And they can't understand that.Millions of people jumping at the sound of money but they have to learn I'm not like that.And they're not used to musicians being that way.They have a lot of unintelligible but they don't follow through like I do. PH:Things could get better so... SR:Well,we'll see.I got a lot to offer.A lot of things folks should hear.I'm not going to force myself on them. PH:well,I don't think you'd be forcing yourself.There's a lot of people out there who love you and love to hear you as you know. SR:well,I feel that too.It takes a terrible drain on me mentally and physically and spiritually unintelligible.I should have things now where I can present things properly with the best equipment and the right kind of way things should be done.I've been working on a shoe string long enough but I've done some good things.But if I had things done properly just think what the world would have.Well,that's the way it's going to be.That's the way it is.I don't know... PH:Speaking of recording... SR:That would be nice but,you know,I be paying these fellows and these other recording companies don't pay me properly so I always be paying them(musicians)what it's worth. PH:Have you ever recorded at Rudy Van Gelder's recording studio? 14 ...liMl _____ ........... iWm_W,ll,w_,,i iwmm \ u_- / \ ~ / I \ V / , ‘ r’ I ‘- e ' i “ ‘/"in ’ . . I SR:I deal myself with the recording'cause they don't want to pay me so I don't want to be wasting my time hoping... _ Pﬂzl was just wondering'cause he has a real nice studio,He's recorded a lot of things.for Impulse and Blue Note, \SR;The only thing about it:Every time I record I pay these 1» fellas and that comes out of my money;I end up with nothing. «'Causé I don't want them to go to the union or something and‘ claim,théy say I owe them.I pay them then and I lose because vthe people(record label)don't pay me and that's been happening a long time.But this time I've gotten so unintelligible, ' 4 tPH;You can get very nice recordings,ofycourse,when you play live §nd‘thin.gs.1ike,that‘.' ‘ ' ' . SR:That's true." PH:Putting a mic up in front of the band,» SR:well,people are really asking me for my records so I'm gete5 , ting so I'm not interested.And,therefore,if I make a record it\‘J e ‘ would be without interest and without unintelligible untill I J see something going to happen worthwhile for me to see I'm not wasting my time...I don't like.to waste time.'Cause like today 7 I was busy looking at some of my research.Putting it together. ‘ I can do that. ’ . g I I \ PH:You mentioned a while back of your(idea.of)doing a record “» * ‘with John(§ilmore)singing;p » I” ‘« SR:well,I was.I never got around to'it.when\I got around too «’ doing(it)then the guitar player(Carl LeBlanc)I had went back= ,_ to New Orleans and the bass p1aye;(went)with‘somebody else so .' iW”““ ‘then I don't have the people unintelligible...So a lot of peop1e.,.A lot of people,you know,that could do the jobfthey , ~ got their own thing and so that's unintelligible. ‘ 4. l,“ _’ SUN RA RESEARCH PUBI.I'SHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS._SINCl.E COPY: S4. OVERSEAS: ‘SINGLE COPY $5. rnorirr covm, INSIDE (OVER, AND CENTER PAGE PHOTOGRAPHS av STUART FREDERICK » 1973. I MET A oN THE sTREET AND HE wAs SAYlNG,HE sAII>, “Tau KNOW, I HEARD vou IN BERLIN. WONDERFUL, woNI>ER- I=uI. BAND." HE SAY, wEI.I., HE wAs L SMOKING A <IaARETTE, “no vou \VANT To SMOKE?" (SUN RA REPI.|E$);-¢“N0, NoT TODAY." THEN I FOUND ouT I.ATER sMoI<INqHAsH . . .HE SAlD,“YOU I KNOW WHAT? vou GOT THE SPIR- IT. vou GOT THE SPIRIT.” AIN'T NOBODY IN AMERICA TOLD ME .; THAT, wHITE oR BLACK. so HERE'S»: SOMEBODY, A GERMAN SMOKING % HAsH, HE SAID . . . vou GOT THE SPIRIT. su N Iu N E 17, I933
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-24
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 25 (October, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-10-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Sun Ra Arkestra rehearsal.Oakland,California.April 21,1971. Sun Razﬂe said for some people it would do that.lt's skin resistance.He put it like that.But actually he said,'well. for black folks it ain't going to play.You buy you one and it ain't going to play.Now,the only way it will play,I had to wet my finger.1 wet my finger and then when I touched it it would play.But as soon as the wetness(wasn't there)it wouldn't play when I touch it.Now,unintelligible the key- board play.Now,what's that?It's a difference.He said it's the skin.Now,they go and talking about equal rights(and) here you got a instrument that won't play for you'cause you're black.(Sun Ra laughs and someone makes a comment about playing the keyboard with his toes)P1ay it with my toes?Yeah,but it might shock you or something.But that's the...See?That's the electricity there.So,as I said,it won't harm you because I know about that Theranin.It too...
Show moreSun Ra Arkestra rehearsal.Oakland,California.April 21,1971. Sun Razﬂe said for some people it would do that.lt's skin resistance.He put it like that.But actually he said,'well. for black folks it ain't going to play.You buy you one and it ain't going to play.Now,the only way it will play,I had to wet my finger.1 wet my finger and then when I touched it it would play.But as soon as the wetness(wasn't there)it wouldn't play when I touch it.Now,unintelligible the key- board play.Now,what's that?It's a difference.He said it's the skin.Now,they go and talking about equal rights(and) here you got a instrument that won't play for you'cause you're black.(Sun Ra laughs and someone makes a comment about playing the keyboard with his toes)P1ay it with my toes?Yeah,but it might shock you or something.But that's the...See?That's the electricity there.So,as I said,it won't harm you because I know about that Theranin.It took the hair off folks arm and all that.So now they touching this raw field of electronics,see?They even got the thing for the unintelligible sitting up there where he touch that.Hell,they can do that you know.Black folks got a lot of electricity in them anyway and they go touching some- thing and unintelligible.lt's just nature that's protecting them unintel1igible.A resistance you know.'Cause otherwise it go all the way through you or sonething.1t don't matter about them,you know.lt ain't nothing no way.So it go through them(and)it ain't going to hurt then.You go over there and be touching everything(and)it knock you out.So now they got that instrument.It's mean.1t's not on the narket.lt's made in this district(In the Oakland area).Now,they got a lot of different instruments that you don't know nothing about.And that's what 1 be trying to tell black musicians.See,I know about it because they tell me about it'cause I can play them. I saw some instruments where a fellow got a book this big on (it).It takes you six months to learn how to play them.'Cause it got the nusic.A blue C,a green C,a red C,a white C.a purple C and all that.Every C gets a different something on that in- strument.And you read the music and you see a purple C(and) you push this over there.You see a red C(and)you push over there.And you wouldn't really get a C.You'd get a C.Now,the red C might be just a little bit sharper.And in between your C and C sharp you might have eight notes or sixteen and all of them different.Now,that lets you know which one are the differences.If they got sixteen colors down there that means between your quarter and your half tone,between your C sharp you got sixteen notes.Now,they got all that (to)work with.And they got soeething down there so low that when you strike it it shakes the house just way down there.They had that before they had the Moog but they only teach white students in the nidwest.Like in Iowa they got a big center up there.You don't know nothing about it.They don't put the records on the narket.One LP costs you twenty four dollars.They don't advertise it.Now,all that they got froe black nusicians and I been trying to tell them you are way behind.And they are but I mean everything they do I know it.Like,they like...Like this fellow Ron that showed me every- thing about that'cause,you see,he wanted to find out about nine(Hoog Synthesizer).He kept on saying now this so and so and so...it's like T-3 on yours,right?Such and such and such things,so and so and so and the envelope and the generator envelope,that's on yours too,right?Trying to find out about nine'cause they don't know.I got one that nobody else has in the world.So they want to find out about it,see?And when they hear it,you see.They can forget the: big ones'cause they want mine back at the factory(and)to give me another one.I don't want another one.I’: going to keep this.I'n going to tell the I lost it or soIething.(Or)I'll pay then for it.So this is one that ain't nowhere.Nobody has one like it.I said I don't want everything everybody else got.I keep this one.'Cause they just threw it together for me when I went up there one Sunday. Just run and put it together and that's the reason they want it back.’Cause they don't know what it does,you know.And now it's getting so it does lightning and thunder.Hhen I hit a note unintelligible and three minutes later it starts light- ning and thundering on and so and then I...it just does it. Like it's got a mind of it's own.Sonetines folks ain't really hearing what I‘: doing or something and I know they aren't ‘cause I’: over there in their minds and I know sonetiees they get afraid when we playing.I know that so I go in another di- rection.Don't want a bunch of zombies up there scared of no. I‘: the one who ought to be scared of then. Sun Razwe got to have a(drun)set for John(Gilnore)so he can take care of that Clifford Jarvis.'Cause you all eight be sitting up there(like a)bug in the rug.Clifford Jarvis wants his job back,boy.Re done come there to...He going to be trying to show me that l'm(Clifford Jarvis)the greatest and them niggers...Get rid of them(Sun Ra laughs). He done told everybody he coming to California to play with me.Now,he coming out with Alice Coltrane.I said,how you coming out to play with me?(break in tape)That's what he said.He ain't give up,boy.Unintelligible with the band ‘cause he saw some more drummers in there(and)he don't like that.Took his job...Re did used to like Lex(Humphries) ‘till Lax played a nice solo behind(after)him.Now he don't like Lex(Sun Ra laughs).8e told(said)me and Les can play together.Hhen that Le: took a solo behind him and sounded so good.Since then Clifford and I don't play that(Sun Ra laughs).So Les messed up.Re should have took a solo before Clifford.Took one after him so...That's it for him,for Lex. Forget it(Sun Ra laughs).Better be glad he don't do it like he did one drummer.He got up and told the drummer in front of everybody at 8lug's,'Stop stealing my stuff nigger.You don't do nothing but steal my stuff.Get your own style.” unintelligible place full of folks.Drummer(went)ahead(and) quit.He talked about the drummer.The drummer quit...He (Clifford Jarvislbroke the drumner's snare drun.He did something.Be's tough on drummers. Sun Ra:See?You almost played it that time because you wasn't counting.You wasn't thinking about it.You just have to do just like I'm talking.l'm not measuring my words and saying one,two,three and(speaking very slowly) I...did...this and that.l can't do that.Husic is a lan- guage so you not supposed to be counting.l might hold a word a little bit longer than usual if I want to mphasise what I'm saying.That's the way music is.lf you move,if you want to emphasise something you hold it a little longer or something so they can get the idea.After all,people aren't no geniuses or nothing like that.And you be playing music and the notes going right on by then and then you talking about they don't appreciate it.Of course they don't appre- ciate it if you let them hear it.Preachers be up(and)they be sure to hear what they're saying and they reiterate over and over and over(that)you going to heaven when you die and everybody hears that and they believe and they give the preachers some money.Now,if you reiterate over and over and over about art and beauty they(will)come up and give you some money.But only if you reiterate it,Y%u see. And musicians have gotten so they be thinking more about how good they are and then they forget about the reiter- ation.Now,the machine's going to be dealing in reiteration. You see?That's why I said if you're not able to play reit- eration over and over and over and over and over and over and over because most people's lives(are)like that.Over and over and over and over and over and over and over.Sometimes you have to play that where they can hear it and associate it with them and they can get over in there with you.Over and over and over and over and over.You get to be real friends.I mean you can grab them one day when they ain't looking and unintelligible over there with you.And now you're over there with me.Otherwise forget it.Now,you do that.Now,they be trying to figure out how you doing that. Unintelligible like you playing wrong.That would interest them more than it you was playing right.Folks are always interested when you doing something wrong.Everybody.You doing something right(and)nobody's interested in you. You think they want to go and tell each other I saw so and so doing something right?No.They be saying,'And you know,I saw so and so doing this that and the other.'It's got to be something bad.Now.you play some music(and) they say I think they was playing wrong but...And then the other person(says),'Oh yeah?Uhen they playing again?(They)be right there.Now,that's the way folks are.And they think you doing something wrong.You don't know what you are doing.See?So you have to always make it look like we don't know we're doing sometimes.And you always be(have)a packed house so they can talk about you.That's why in Chicago a piano player used to bring other piano players out there.'I want to hear somebody who's abusing the piano.You ain't never heard nobody abuse the piano like that.'Every night he brings a new customer. when we came to New York he told me that.He said,'I used to bring people all the time'cause I really didn't understand. And we'd sit at the bar and talk about you abusing the piano.‘ So that's the way it is.1 can't help it but if they like that. But I'm telling you that's the way it is.Now,you do that and they'll be right there.Not that they understand.They will understand one thing:Some fellas up there doing something wrong.Then you're buddies'cause they'll do something wrong twenty four hours a day.Hhen they ain't doing something wrong they thinking about it. (After rehearsing Friendly Galaxy) Sun Ra:A little bit ahead of the beat.Try it again.You Can see it's very etfective.That's the way the early jazz bands did.That's the reason tolks can't play it today. They unintelligible a little bit ahead.And then they de- cide they want to play a little bit behind like Chicago musicians.They be playing a little bit behind the beat. And that's hard to do,too.So it's either ahead or behind and then there's some music that's right on the beat. well,white people can do that.lt it's right on the beat they got you.You say...that's my stu£f.when you get ahead of the beat and you get behind the beat and then they'll talk about you and say,you know,it ain't even music'cause they can't play it.And when you get on the beat...that's it.You can forget it.You won't have a job.You stay on ahead of the beat.something you can count.Now also in your solos you can do that,too.You can switch the whole thing.And then sometimes you can play right on the beat.And then sometimes behind.You got three things to work with then.You have to make one over in there,you see.Because it's really war in music.Black and white.Now,you have to be where they can't win.You can't win over there with their symphony bands. ‘Cause you ain't got no symphony bands or nothing and you ain't got no black folks putting nothing behind you.You can't win with them folks on that.On unity.I mean as far as in that particular thing as all of them together you ain't going to win like that.The best way you can win is all those who are going to be together(to)seperate and leave them others out there who ain't going to be together. . Leave them out there by themselves.Otherwise you ain't going to make it.'Cause it's all about togetherness.The white race is together.Don't let thm tool you talking about revolting and revolution.Hhat they going to be revoluting against? They got everything.But that's for you.You jump out there talking about revolution.l told the truth the other night when I said no,not no revolution with black £olks.Not no world £reedom.Not no peace.They don't need nothing like that.They need unity,precision(and)discipline.That's the only thing white folks going to respect and get out(o£) the way.And I'm up there telling them.Right into their face.I said'cause they got their stuff together and I got mine together.And I'm not afraid of them.I ain't even worried about them.Now,I'm telling them that.Now,you have to demonstrate that.l tell you it's about unity,precision (and)discip1ine.That's it.Now,once black musicians had more of that than anybody in the world.That's what jazz is.It's precision(and)discip1ine.All the improvisations. Nothing like that in the wor1d.Nothing like it.So then this is a top music regardless of what they say.But they said jazz is dead.But no,jazs isn't dead.The musicians are dead.They the ones are dead.Jazs will never die.But when musicians get so,they get so passive and everything and they can't play(or)improvise according to what's happening in the universe then of course they're dead. And they make the music dead'cause a dead man can't play live music.You know that.He can only be dead. (Thanks to James Lindbloom for supplying a cassette of this rehearsal.lt has been previously labelled as being from October 1971 which is incorrect) Al Nassan interviewed by Cathy Austin and John Hinds...KzSU-PM Stan£ord,Cali£ornia...Nay 25,l997...... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Cathy Austin:Al,we just played a bunch of recordings that you were on with Sun Ra.You said that you recorded with him and toured with pie in the sixties. Al Nassan.Yes I did.And it brings back some great memories listening to these albums.l haven't listenend to them in quite a while and it brings back some great memories. CA:And you did that(in the)early sixties or late sixties? AN:Barly sixties. CA:lhat can you tell us about those times? Aﬂzrhey were fun times.Ne didn't have a lot of following like we're having now and I never expected to be on the air talking about Sun Ra.But we played at Slug's quite a bit and we recorded constantly and one of the high points that I enjoyed the most was making a tour of the New York state colleges.lthaca State,Syracuse and a bunch of others.we did that for ESP Records. CA:He have four ESP recordings and I believe you are on two of them.Hbat brought you to New York? Aﬂzl came to New York to play music and I'm from Detroit and I have a family in New York so it made it easy to stay in New York and deal with it because there wasn't a lot of money to be made playing music. CA:Bspecially that kind of music. AH:That's true.So I came to New York to play music and I hooked up with Sun Ra.l had been doing some other things but then I hooked up with sun Re and I stayed and it was a lot of tun.I met a lot of good musicians. CA:How did you hook up with Sun Ra? Aﬂzl don't remember exactly.l was living in a loft with Bernard Nckinney and we'd have all kinds of musicians come by and play,especially after hours.After they'd get off work which is four in the morning.So we'd have sessions every day.Sonny Rollins came by.I can't even remember all of the musicians,famous musicians that came by the place but there were some remarkable musicians there and i got a chance to meet them all and play with them too. CA:Like Clifford Jarvis and Ronnie Boykins? Aﬂzoh yes.Clifford and I were good buddies and Ronnie Boykins...He played together with Sun Ra,myself.Jose Taylor and Omar Clay.He played at Birdland on a monday night.And so Miles Davis and J.J.Johnson got a chance to hear us play and I really enjoyed that too.That was a lot of fun.And I got to ask J.J.Johnson,'Uhat do you think about my playing?'He said,'You just keep on doing that.'Although I wasn't trying to imitate J.J.JOhnson.I was trying to reach for something more.Trying to get some- thing else out of the horn and hopefully I have.However,I do have roots with J.J.Johnson.I really like his playing. He's a godfather of trombone. CA:So you've been in the Bay Area for over twenty years? Aﬂzover twenty five years I've been here. CA:Do you play around town? AH:Yes,I've been playing around.l played at the Oroco Club over on Geary Street.I took a quartet in there and I've been working with a six piece group.He played at Rosella's.He had a sunday night there for almost six months so we really got a chance to(play)and we did some recordings too.But just around the Bay Area we've been playing.That's about it. John Bindszﬂaybe you could illuminate some of the individual albums and releases like Strange Strings and that kind of period.It's a very unusual album and quite intriguing. AH:I guess you know that Sun Ra went through periods like all of us do and you get into one mode and you work it out untill you get all you can get out of it before you move on to something else.So Sun Ra went through the string stage a bought a koto and played it.Played it a little differently,l think,than some of the masters play it but he managed to get the sounds he wanted out of it and that was his accomplishment.To get the sounds that he wanted out of it and he had several different stringed instruments that he would play.And some of them were un- named.I don't know what they were.They were just stringed instruments.And he'd utilise then in different recordings. JH:It's a very unusual direction for a jazz group. AH:The direction he was going in was that he brought up frequently was that he was into a mood music.Hood music and therapy.Husic for therapy.In fact,one person commented. it was in a magasine,that he went to hear Sun Ra in concert with a headache and he cane out completely rejuvinated and he felt great.And he says that Sun Ra's music can cure head- aches but I think it was a little bit deeper than that.He had different music for different parts of the body that needed some type of therapy.So you could turn on a different album.say.maybe to get your gall bladder working. JH:That's fascinating. Anzlt is fascinating.And a lot of people won't believe this but it really works.somewhat like acupuncture or accupressure. And it's reletively new but could modify moods which is a large part of your health.If you could change your mood you could change your health. Photozken Katowxk D O S C 3 J S W J g L Tyrone Hi11(Trombdhe)§nd E1o‘Omoe(A1to Saxophone) Photo:Ken Katowik A Sun Ra interviewed by Jennifer Rycenga....San Francisco, California...November 2,1988...Part Four.Continued from Sun Ra Research..,Issue fourteen.December l997.;....... Sun Ra:(Speaking on the telephone with a reporter from the Denver Post)And that's on the record.(Question)... wel1,yes I...do remember...we1l,as I said,I was different kind of chi1d.I did...my mother was,you might say,a bus- iness person.I didn't see too much of her.She had her own business.A restaurant,and she'd leave early in the morning and come back late at night.I didn't see too much of her unless I went by the place,you see.So I was totally out 'there by myse1f.It was in Birmingham(Alabama)up near what they call the Terminal Station on twenty sixth street and she had several unintelligible changed several times and she was a good cook so she had this and...(Question)... Wel1,he left early.It was a disagreement and he was always trying to kidnap me.That's why i went sort of into...Well, they hid me away from him'cause several times he said to his sister in—law unintelligible to kidnap me and in ele- mentary school that happenend and they just had to...go into oblivion,you might say,so he couldn't find me.That happenend.(Question)...We1l,I didn't,I didn't remember him too much except that I remember one time he had me up in his arms and my mother came and snatched me out of his arms and after that I didn't see him anymore'cause she pulled out because he was always trying to take me to his people saying they had more money and that's what he was trying to do.So my mother just broke off connec- tions(and),you might say,hid me where he couldn't find me.(Question)...No I didn't.I wasn't even...I had read about the hard time that musicians and poets and every- body have and artists are starving.I never wanted to have anything to do with it.But then when I came(home)from elementary school one day,maybe I was about nine or some- thing,there was a piano.And my mother gave it to me for an arrival day(birthday)present.That was a piano.Now,my sister said she had taken piano 1esson(s).why should she buy a piano for me who had never taken a piano lesson? It was ridiculous.So I sat down and played the piano. (Question)...It was in the house.It was in the living room when I came home from school.That was a gift from my mother.So then...I played the piano.So I had a friend 10 who played violin,his name was William Gray and William Gray was sitting there,yeah,well,you playing by ear and all that.You can't read.You got to learn music.So he went home(and)he got some music.He put it up there(and)I played it.So everyday he would buy something like some classics and he'd bring it.I played all of it.I sight read it.They never could understand how I could do that.Neither do I. Well,I was just a natural,you know.Natural to sight read and that's how I got where I got into Fletcher Henderson's band.I could sight read anything and in high school there was a school teachers band there.Only school teachers in there and they had a huge repertoire so I,in high school, in fifteen or fourteen years of age I was playing with a school teachers band.Everybody was a school teacher in there but me'cause I could read anything.Just naturally without a teacher.So then I went to college.They said _(that),(Alabama)A and M College in Huntsville,Alabama, that I already knew everything about music and harmony. But they say(said)you should take a course here in music so that you will be authenticated as having taken music. So then that's what I...I went to music class and all that up on...I had a tutor you might say.Miss Lulu Randolph from Washington DC and she was a classicist and her writings and things were in Etude Magazine.Strictly a classical maga- zine and she liked what I was doing but it always...and she was very nice.In her class students of music talking and different things but it happened that every time the class (was)there I was up teaching.She put me up there teaching all the time.Now,in elementary school that happenend.The teachers put me up there teaching the students.I controlled them.In high school the teachers would put me up there.I had control of the class.And then my so called life was really regimentated.I was under protection and...Definate1y was something there because the same people that I went to school with in the first grade I graduated with them in the twelvth grade.So there was some force that kept me with my friends all the way through high school.And I wasn't with strangers. I was with friends.And all of us graduated together.We was in the first grade together.We stayed together(and)we grad- uated together.That was some force that wanted me to be surrounded with friends.And I didn't know nothing about the world.I didn't know nothing.I still don't know anything ex- cept that I'm supposed to help the planet.But I don't know. 11 I'm just,in a sense,I'm one thousand,nine hundred and eighty eight years old now and so is everybody else. One thousand,nine hundred eighty eight years old and everybody is walking around here one thousand,nine hundred and eighty eight years else they wouldn't be here.(Question)...Oh no.This is 1988.So then you must be one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight years old or else you wouldn't be here.well,of course,I'm much older than that.I'm before history.I'm five thou- sand years old at least.Five thousand.That's what I'm telling peop1e.I'm five thousand years old on the Earth Q plane.Before that I was somewhere else and I was over into eternal being and then I came down here as,what you might call seemingly,a human being.But I'm not a human being.I'm not a man.I'm an angel,you see.And... I was sent here to help people.To defend them against their self destruct se1f'cause they self destruct,you know.And I'm supposed to turn the self destruct off. So then you got a lot of people who believe in God y and they going to churches and things and the planet is headed toward total destruction.Just push one button or drop some junk and I'm supposed to stop all that. Now,that's a big job.Five billion people on the planet and I'm supposed to,you might say,take control and tell them now,this way please.You must go out this exit be- cause otherwise you will die and that's what I got to tell them.Now,you facing destruction and all your school- ing and all your religion and all that,it doesn't matter to death.It comes out to snatch anybody it wants to.You must defend yourself now.And that's what I got to tell them.You must defend yourself against death itself or God himself.Against whatever is killing humanity.You must defend yourself now before it's too late.Now,that's another kind of message.But they must defend themselves and they must find out what has brought all this trouble on this planet.(Question)...well,mythocracy.I'm a scientist, you see.Equational scientist.Now,I'm an equational equation- ist scientist.Everything I tell people I can prove it by an equation.I'm not dealing with hope and faith.I'm dealing with equations and when I tell them something I can put the equation right there and there it is.And then therefore I'm not repre- senting the religious point.They dealing on faith and hope. I'm not dealing with that.I'm dealing with equations that 12 Photo Ken Katowik nobody can refute.And they have to respect it.And I put the equations out there and say this and this and they have to say yes.It's got to be something to come on this planet where all the nations can say yes.They must have one point of view where they all can say yes.Now right now they got one point in view that all of them say yes. Death.The point of death.And I've equations.Like in Ger- many,some teenagers asked me some questions and I said, "How do you say death in German?"They said tod.T-O-D. Or tod.I said,"we1l,turn it backwards and then what(do) you have?"They said dot.I say period.And then they never : thought I said period.This dot there.This black dot rep- e resents the end and you put it behind your sentence that this(is the)end.Now,death is the end.It's the dot,you know. It's the point.And when people get sick and they will die they come to the point of death.I'm talking about equations. Now,you got that point.Now,you need another point.You got three points.You have point blank.And you see,you got this dot and then I'm talking about this other point,other circle which is a spiral.Now,the spiral goes out and out and out and out.It never returns to itself.It keeps on expanding. And the Universe is made like that.You look,you get in astronomy(and)you can see the spiral of the stars and every- thing.I'm talking about the spiral.You do not talk about coming back here.You keep on...you keep on moving.You don't come back here.It's ridiculous to come back here.I mean you can't...They talk about being born again.You shouldn't be born at all.You know,you just happenend.You happenend to be. And you have to keep on moving like the Creator and he wasn't born.Why should we be born?But,I mean I've read the diffe- rences(between)the spiritual stuff and I read one scripture say a man's true birthday is the day of his death.Now,I read that.I got to go by what you have written here.Now,it don't say a man's true birthday is the day of his death.Now,equa— tionally wise,birth is spelled berth,too.And sure enough, they put him right over in that narrow bed in that casket and that's a bed.That's their birthday when they buried him.(Question)...Oh yes.I just read,read,read.I had to know about different nations.I read the literature.Shake— speare and I read Dumas.I read everything that the different nations have.The beauty of the nations.I know about the sculptures,their paintings.I know everything about nations. I know about their wars.I really like to study history and ; 13 _.._.,, all that and I know about their philosophy.I know every- thing about every nation on the face of the earth.And I know exactly about their spiritual(ity).Where they stand- ing on the spiritual scale of progress.And I know what they need in order to elevate themselves and move forward toward the potentia1.I'm dealing with their potentials and since I know where they are on the scale of behavior and other things then I start unintelligible OK.Now,we going to i do this and that to elevate you to a point where you can be i citizens of the Omniverse.I'm not talking about the Universe. " I unintelligible that unintelligible.I'm talking about the 0mniverse.The empire of the 0mniverse.I'm talking about eternal things that have nothing to do with righteousness. In fact,in a Philadelphia (news)paper I did say I'm evil and wicked.They put that in the paper(Philadelphia Inquirer). It was very interesting.And I said,"Yes,well,sometimes I practice on my friends to try and be ready for my enemies." They put that in the paper,too.(Question)...well,the Phila- delphia Inquirer.A very conservative paper.But they put it in there and it(was)seven pages of me in this Sunday Maga- zine,magazine section,and all Philadelphia is in an uproar. Philadelphia Inquirer.(Question)...It came out about three weeks ago.Wait a minute.(Asking Peter Hinds)Do you know when it came out? Peter Hinds:It was the first week of October. Sun Ra:He said the first week in October.And the headline... The Brother From Another Planet(chuckles).I thought that's pretty good for a conservative paper like the Philadelphia Inquirer.So they didn't say I wasn't,you know.But that's what shook people up.That a conservative newspaper like that did something that they never done before.They said,in Philadel- phia,they said this newspaper never had seven pages of any- body.(Question)...well,I wouldn't call it living,you know. It's...Philadelphia's so bad...(Tape runs out)...When I come around people,they tell me the truth.And that's the reason I avoid them'cause some of the things they be saying is highly disturbing when they tell me the truth.I cause prob- lems.Like for instance I was in Egypt and two people from the American Embassy invited me to their house.Two black g ones.And I hadn't seen this picture(movie)about The Day = After,I think.It's about the atomic bomb.I hadn't seen it :Jorn Krumpelmann Photo 'cause I was in Egypt.And they had the videotape so they was showing it.The man of the house say,"You know,yes that's very terrible.I just hope when it happens that the bomb fall right on me and eliminate me promptly."His wife said,"But you know,I don't feel that way.I believe in 1iving.I didn't want no bomb to(fa11)."He said,"we11,I think it would be better if..."She said,"Well,I'm not going to be part of it and(I'm)not going to agree to that."And so he said,"But you're my wife and everything."She said,”I'm you're wife but not in no death and everything."He said, "what you going to do?"She said,"well,I'm going with Sun Ra.Sun Ra's talking about us uninte11igib1e.I'm going." He say,"If you going with Sun Ra,pavk your clothes now and get out."I had to leave the party.So like I said...I said,"Now,well,I got to go now."And I left and they were arguing.I said,"See,I can't,I can't even go out and have no fun and I got to leave and they had nice food and every- thing.It was on somebody(who)invited us out in Egypt.Like, from(the)American Government and I had to leave.Now,when I come out among people I cause things.Like one time I was looking at a TV and a woman was there with her husband and she said,"You know,you said some strange things.You be talk- ing about love anf things like that.I can realize the value of love."Now,her husband was sitting right there.(She con- tinues),"You know,I know what love is.I only love one man. My first husband.”Now the second oneHusband)was sitting there. Later on during the night I heard somebody hollering.So I think...I think she got a beating.(To be continued next issue) }vA1 Hassan” <~A394o3o co ?1%991pM;u| ;PRf_ESS>} % 4 %9Y§RS‘EA5%i(.?,'“GLE cow ss. km: :- c. Q J‘ A _ I 4 Ronald 1*’ =«:‘:.~. 4..--~».. --.;v». »--,>s'.g‘¢.~;;,:<vie» :~.—«..:: u’~:'~, »~:. .2-. cm ':..;~. 2- .—«::-.:- ~x - ».~: ~v- - r -av ~»~.~.~ _ ’/Er. .‘_~,.,.'' ' _ 3‘ ' ‘ ‘“ "‘ ‘*1 ”"‘ “"““" "“ - I -" ,, » ;;_I,. .. "V "<- r..,~.. ;' v ;.:: A. .7.-v:.;-_{-v,-3'9‘-vyu. ,.y=_-,;.»r;"-=»,.'._..;~ <..:«_-¢r*.‘f‘» »'«;.<,~.; BUT THEY SAID JAZZ IS A DEAD. BUT No, IAZZ ISN'T DEAD. THE MUSICIANS ARE DEAD. ‘THEY . ARETHEONESARE DEAD. IAZZI JwII.I. NEVER. DIE. BUT wHEN MuSIcIANS GET So, TH ET aET So PASSIVE AND EVERYTHING AND- THEY CAN'T PLAY (om IMPROVISE ACCORDING To WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE . uNIvE.I2SE. THEN or COURSE THEY'RE DEAp_' AND THEY AMAI<ETHEMuSIc DEAD“<AuSE. A DEAD MAN <AN'T PLAY LIVE, MUSIC. vou KNOW THAT. HE <ANHoNI.v BEDEAD. I ' 5'-’NRA I S_ »APR|l. 2,1,1971AI
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-25
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 26 (December, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-12-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Sun Ra interviewed by Jennifer Rycenga....San Francisco, California...November 2,l988...Part Five.Continued from Sun Ra Research.Issue...Twenty Five...0ctober l999..... % (Sun Ra continues to talk with on the telephone with 5 a reporter from the Denver Post)Sun Ra:(Question...) well,they come up,they be telling me things that,like I went to Chicago and I was talking to a police(officer) over in McDonald's somewhere,and he was a musician,he started to say,"You know,I...my wife has gone for three years.I haven't had no sex or nothing uninteligible." And he started telling me about(he said),And I met this girl from Peru or somewhere and I had sex with her three times and she liked it so well.The problem is she told me that if she ever caught me with another woman she was going to kill me.Now,she down there from Peru and them women are different.why,I've been so scared.I decided I wouldn't have nothing to do with her and for three weeks I haven't even ...
Show moreSun Ra interviewed by Jennifer Rycenga....San Francisco, California...November 2,l988...Part Five.Continued from Sun Ra Research.Issue...Twenty Five...0ctober l999..... % (Sun Ra continues to talk with on the telephone with 5 a reporter from the Denver Post)Sun Ra:(Question...) well,they come up,they be telling me things that,like I went to Chicago and I was talking to a police(officer) over in McDonald's somewhere,and he was a musician,he started to say,"You know,I...my wife has gone for three years.I haven't had no sex or nothing uninteligible." And he started telling me about(he said),And I met this girl from Peru or somewhere and I had sex with her three times and she liked it so well.The problem is she told me that if she ever caught me with another woman she was going to kill me.Now,she down there from Peru and them women are different.why,I've been so scared.I decided I wouldn't have nothing to do with her and for three weeks I haven't even called her or anything but just before you walked in she called me up."Now,he said I got another problem."I met another girl that's going to college here and she wants somewhere to stay.So I said she can stay at my house.It wouldn't be any sex involved.Just pay me three hundred dollars a month(and)she stay with me.Now,you see, this girl from Peru has said if she saw me even talking to another woman she's going to cut me or shoot me..Oh,I'm in trouble.what do you think I should do?"Now,you see,that be happening to me all the time.They be trying to get there and they be talking to me and telling me everything they be doing.Just like it opens up and I have to sit there and Like,I was in Berkeley and some organization out there,they be talking about space and everyrthing.So the man,they had me up there talking.we were discussing things before the people and then he said something about equality(and)diffe- rent things like that.I say,"well,you know,that's all right but I don't think it's proper for black folks to talk that because if,you know,you're talking about things like that then you got to share things with one another.Now,black people ain't got nothing but trouble and they'll share 2 that with you if you keep on talking about this equality." I have to listen to all that.They have to tell me the truth. So a black man stood up and he say,"You know,l just got out of jail.I been in jail about maybe fifty times and I was guilty most of the time and I been in such and such a prison and such and such."I said,"You see what I'm talking about?Now,this man is telling you what he has to share with the white race.How do you like it?" So the fellow...He got up and left.And the black man kept telling me all his troubles.And he ended the session.Now,I'm talking about things that are wonder- fu1.I'm talking about the potential of humanity.The potentials are so great for humanity(that)they(are) start1ing.Now,I have to take these different nations and tell them the truth.Like in Japan.I just come back and they say,"How do you like Japan?"I said,"well,you've become a world power now.You weren't but you are now whether you want to be or not.But you not capable of really getting to people on a world scale'cause you're very immature.'Cause you've been isolated just over there for Japan and you still like that.Now,therefore,now you don't have no music.You don't have no culture to offer people.You're dealing with your traditions so you are capable of being a world power like what is needed at this point."I said the Russians talking about music. They said the world got to have a world music they be able to do anything.The Russians were right.But it cause problems'cause the Chinese said it was impossible (for)anybody to come up and do world music because you got to be part of the world.You got to get past your religion,your traditions,your government and(it's)im— possible for a person in the form of man to be able to do something for all the world without prejudice and thing and holding on to their own little way of what they think and status quo.The Chinese said it couldn't be done.The Russians still(do)and they broke relationship (with China)because of the idea of music.Now,so the Russians still say world music is necessary.I say so too. You must have something in common for all humanity when all of them can say yes.Now,you never had that.And religions, you know,they over there and they(have)different things (and)all of them saying that.But you never had where all the nations said about God,yes that's it.Now,I'm here to make them say yes,that's it.Now,to do that I have to use a lot of strategies,you know.I use strategies to lure them or tempt them to get rid of their self de- struct.Now,I have to plan it well and I've infiltrated. I got thousands and thousands of people,probably millions, who have heard my music and who are saying yes.And I got letters to prove it from(them).I got letters from teen- agers.I got letters from sub-teenagers.I even got some letters from some subteenagers in elementary school and it was a poem(written by Sun Ra)they were disturbed about. The poem says something like;when I was a child,black hands tended me,they took care of me.The world did not do that(and)they did that and I loved them for that. Now,these subteenagers,who are white,wrote me a letter and said...They said something like,well,if you were black would you still feel that way?And they didn't know what color I was.But they just disturbed about (that)I didn't say nothing about the white race taking care of me.And they were disturbed.They said they felt... That it didn't sound right.well,maybe it didn't.But I told the truth,you know{I had another poem where I say most of all I hate me.And a friend of mine said,"Don't put that out there..."why shouldn't I hate me?I'm not talking about hating anybody e1se.I don't have the right to hate anybody else unless I hate me first and then if I hate them they can't say nothing.So I'm dealing with equations.Of course I don't have a right to hate anybody unless I hate me first and then we have something in common.(Question)...what?Hate me?I hate being on this planet because the Creator got me...He got all these preachers and presidents and things and he went telling me,"Now,you get out there and you change these people." And you got the President and this and that and the Pope and he want me to do it.And people don't pay me no money to do nothing.They paying the President and they don't help me.Like,I could have a million piece band.I'm think- ing about getting me about five million musicians in my band.I just have them...I say now I got...And then I'm going to get me some people that ain't musicians and put them in my band too because every time I play people be singing with the band.I be telling the band,"Y'all better watch it(when)leaving the stage'cause the people is gett- ing the music and they sing and I don't need you.And they be clapping their hands.If the drummer lay out the public instantly play the right rhythm.Now,this is a different kind of music.In Houston,Texas when I got through playing the sub-teenagers ran to the edge of the stage to shake my hand.Now,I've never seen that.(Question)...But in any band.They left their parents and came to the stage to shake my hand.So I reached them,you know.Now,in Germany it was a problem in Berlin because a German woman came and said,"You know,yes you up there talking about space and things.After you going to do everything you said.And you going to get every teenager in the world to obey you and follow you and all..."I said,"No,I'm never around teenagers.As far as I'm concerned they're a chip off the old block and the old block ain't no good."She said,"But you going to do it and more and more teenagers do equate with this music."If I play a stomp,which they know nothing about,they be dancing by the stomp.And everything I play teenagers...I played in Lawrence,Kansas(and)an older person came and said,"what are they doing?The teenagers out there dancing by all kind of sounds.He stayed there about an hour and he said,"I know what they're doing.They creating."'Cause they had to do some more steps.They couldn't do their ordinary steps to my music.And their bodies(and)their elbows in the air and they was doing all kind of things.Very beautiful.I’m think- ing of getting me a TV program where I play my space music and have the teenagers dance by my music instead of their rock stuff they dancing by.I think they should have a chance to choose what is better for them instead of grown people imposing things on them which they think,"0h,this is for them."And I think they should have a chance to hear all forms of music and I assure you they will choose the space music.Yes,that was in Chicago.(Question)...We played in Chicago about three months ago and I wanted to shake up Chicago.I shook it up alright.I had three Brazilians with me and they was doing some things and playing with us like they had been playing with us for always.And Chicago had to...They(are)still stunned...(Question)...That's what happened.That's where I had the Brazilians with me.I didn't realize it was being nationally televised,I mean radio. It was on public TV(radio).You know,usually sometime they keep the tapes but this time they put us on the air live and people and in other places(said),I heard the band. (Question)...well,of course I can't avoid it.Like this booking agent(Jack Rich)I got say,"America must hear(you)." I say,"I don't want America.I'm busy over in my psychic... I'm a scho1ar."(I)Said,"I just don't want to be out there." (Question).;.well,I mean I'm disturbed to what's happening to the children in Africa.I'm disturbed about all these folks in jail and all these folks in the cemetary.I'm dis- turbed,highly disturbed by it.'Cause I'm dealing with a Creator that says he doesn't like it.Now,I have to say, well,if he doesn't like it,why doesn't he stop it?He say he didn't started it.Man started it.And if they intelligent they will stop it.That if it's possible for a man to go out and kill a man,they ought to have some kind of sense enough to go out there and and raise one up.And if they can kill,they ought to be able to heal and resurect and he say he waiting for them to do that.Now,in Carolina some teenagers went out in the graveyard and joined hands to raise people from the dead and the police put them in jail. So now,why(did)they put them in jail?In Kansas City a mini- ster said, (On)Easter he was going to walk the waters.The police came and put him in jail.Now,if you going to walk ' the water you going to sink if you couldn't do it.But they put him in jail.(In)Birmingham,Alabama a preacher was going tp preach about the resurection and he was going to be in the casket and preach and rise up.They put him in jail and told him(to)get out of Birmingham.Now,you got some different things happening here.Some people had said that some people g gonna land out there in the west somewhere at a certain time g and the Commerce Department went there with there with their ' warrent to put them in jail.Now,how do you expect people to do something?Aint nobody going to land on this planet and go to jail.Now,in Milwaukee or one of them places up there(I believe this was in Minnesota—PH),the people in that city have gotten a strip,a space strip and inviting people to land,Now,the government can't do nothing about it'cause the people say yes,we want to welcome space beings.And I want to welcome them too.But I've decided,now,how am I going to get to people so they can support something of worth?It seems like Bruce,that Springsteen,you know,the boss,he talking about amnesty for all these people in jail.But I'm talking about amnesty,too.I'm talking about amnesty for all the people who ever walked this planet from the Creator where they will not be guilty of sin or anything that's wrong.I'm talking about amnesty from the Empire of the Eternal Being of the Creator.To say,well,now I'm not going to be forgiving them.I'm going to give them amnesty and make them sign it.Now,that's what I'm here to solve. The black problem here in America.You got the discrimi- nation and all that.You got black folks over in there. That God ain't didn't nothing for them.He just give them to the white man and they did something that God said;"well OK,I'll fix you.Now,you don't want to do what I say so I'm going to let you...I'm going to make you a God."So they made the white people who don't knoe they(are)God yet.He give them and made them God and put black folks under them and say,"worship them."And that's the reason you get black folks talking about I love you’cause they love God.Now,I'm here to straighten that out and they have to get back over there with the Creator.It's very difficult,you know.The Creator don't like black people because they had everything. They even had the whole world in their hand.You study his- tory and they did something...They did somethingm that it wasn't wrong.It just wasn't obedient and the Creator just _ says,"OK,now you just go over there in the disobedient king- dom and I'm going to fix it so where if I catch you doing something right I'm going to punish you."And thus you'll find in the black race(that)if the Creator catch them doing some- thing right he punish them.They have to do something wrong. And then since they chose to do wrong he just made it a law that every black person can only be succesful if they do wrong.And if he catch one of them doing something right he kill them or put them in jail.Now,that‘s the way it is for them.Now,the white race is different.They can do something either way.'Cause they(are)Gentiles and the Bible says that Gentiles are a law unto themselves.So you might say I came to talk to the Gentiles.Like I told a white person in Atlanta, Georgia.I told him,"Well,I'm an angel but I'm a bad angel.A good angel can only do something good but a bad angel can do something good and bad.So a bad angel is superior to a good angel.And so the man said,"why,you just like us."I said, "That's right.A man can do something bad and good but a good angel can only do something good.I'm bad.So that's the reason you going to listen to me."And he said,"That's right."Now,you see;it comes down to getting the people that where they can say yes,that is true.So I totalled up.A bad angel can do something bad or good and I have a to take that book like the Bible where they got this Jesus saying,"An evil father knows how to do good things for his children.And so in a Philadelphia newspaper I said I'm evil.Therefore I go out and get me some children and I could do some good things for them.And I'd take the Bible and show it to a little(child)unintelligible and they can't say nothing.I can tell the black church I'm (an)evil father.I know how to do good things for my child- ren.And then what can they do?They can't fight against the book.Now,I'm just going to use that book.I have to use the book.I don't like it,rea1ly.But I can say it is very effect- ive and that(it)can be used to change the planet.Not to really save them because what they need is redeeming.You might say they(are)in pawn.Everybody on this planet is a puppet and a pawn.So I'm supposed to take the pawns and move them over into...out of danger and move them over into the king's row in your place and when I put a pawn over there they stay there.Don't be moving unless the hand that put you there move you.And I've got these pieces.Look,we playing a game and I'm going to put this nation right here.Don't you move.I don't want no nation to jump over in another nation's place because this is a game and you messed the game up and then the Creator will brush it all out.well,it's practically at the last hand now.And I have to make my moves.Now,the Creator,the way he is(is)that he be doing this time thing.You can have only so long to stand still.He make a move on you.So then he'll get ahead of you.well,I got to be sure to make moves ahead of him.I do that very we1l.Sometimes some fellows in the band,they be slow.I make a move on them.I hire somebody else and say you going to lose your place.And then they get where they say,well you know...Like John(Gi1more)told me one day.He said,"You know what?I've been with you thirty five years.I believe you would fire me."I said,"Yes John, if you get in my way.I'm playing this game and life on this planet depends upon it.And I'm not going to let you and nobody get in my way.I will fire you."So he was cry- ing,you know.Then I said,"I'd have to John.I'm not against you but I'm not going to lose this game."This Creator be moving fast and I have to get some people.lf I can't get black folks and white folks in America I'm going to reach out and get me some Brazilians and some Nigerians and some cannibals.I don't care who I get as long as they obedient and play the game.Now,white people be telling black people; stay in your place.Sure,but where is that place?So now I have to get a place for them other than the cemetary.But that Jesus was talking about my place I give to you.Not as the world give...In the cemetary they got rest in peace. Now,I've got people(that)say,"Don't be jumping over there in this Jesus peace'cause you'll be over in the cemetary with a white stone on top of you."Now,I think the world needs different religions.All of them come up under the jurisdiction of death and can't none of them tell me they don't.Now,I have to get them to see that in all religions, Hindus or whatsoever and say,"Look,listen to me.You got to listen to somebody in the form of man.You have to listen (to)somebody in the form of man.'Cause these sheep if they have a shepherd...In Egypt I was standing up watching a man come up with three hundred sheep or more.He turned left, sheep turned left.He turned right...Not one sheep strayed. Now,that's a good lesson for humanity.Now,they were follow- ing somebody(that)wasn't like them.So this cause a person (from) a different nation or something,the world got to 1earn(that)if they the sheep,follow the shepherd.That's what they got to learn.Right now somebody is another kind of shepherd and got them following straight to the cemetary. Namely Jesus.Now,he showed them how to die and everybody want to catch up with him.I said,"Stop following him.Do not get up on that cross.Don't you get up there and die and don't ask.for help.But he showed them.(He)Said,"Now,if you do this you going to be dead."That's what he came and showed them. Do not do this.'Cause the law always say thou shall not,thou shall not,thou shall not and Jesus come up and say,"Thou shall not follow me."And the world being disobedient and run and try to be like(Jesus)and get upon that cross.well, I didn't come here for that.I came here to redeem people and stop them from being self destruct(ive).'Cause that's what they are.You don't have to kill nobcdy.They going to self destruct.They just like time bomb.They go off,you know. I see a lot of people walking around here talking to they- self.(They)Went off.wel1,you have to harmonize that and music can do it.So now I'm going to really maximize my music.It's about sound and people coming at me and they don't say(talk)about that.They say I like your sound.well, then that means that they waking up to the...You got a lot of musicians.Do they have a sound?You see,you need a sound mind,a sound body,sound unintelligible,sound government. They be saying these things but they never do realize the value of the sound.Now,therefore I'm dealing with sound.I have to get my band where it have the sound of Fletcher Henderson,the sound of Duke Ellington,the sound of Fats waller.In fact,one writeup(review)said I stole some of Fats Waller unintelligible in Chicago and said I even stole some of Fats Waller's stuff,played it,too.wel1,it's very amusing, isn't it?But I was just expressing the spirit of Fats Waller who(was)a very great person and humerous and I tend to bring to the world,particularly to America,al1 of the great things in Jazz because they're not there now.But as a child I was listening to all of theml can play what they tried to play to get people to recognize.And I take that spirit and I play it so they wouldn't have spent their life in vain.That's what I'm doing so I tend to put my works aside sometimes and play the spirit of those who came and contributed something unself- ish and great to America and wasn't recognized.I hear they making a research to put Fletcher Henderson's music back out there.So I wanted his music out there and it's going out there. That's wonderful.I think he should be given credit.In fact, I think Fletcher Henderson should have a day like Reverend King.I think America should give a day to a musician.You know, they don't have no days for musicians.They got days for poli- ticians.Always politiciansYou don't have,you don't give one artist or musician a day.And pick somebody.I don't care who it is.Benny Goodman,Duke E1lington.You must have a day. (Comment)...well,I think not,too.But you should have a day for a musician to show you appreciate music.Music made America. The whole world is trying to catch(up).well,a senator did :Keh Katowik VPhoto John Gilmore _ _ .. _ _ h :Ken Katowik Photo Marshall Allen Ronald Wilson 'n2.2a-su~.-u.gué.'«'s‘-iii 1 ' 2-‘er make it a law to make jazz the music of America.But you got a lot of jazz musicians who are practically starving who don't have no help and they creative.And creative musicians should be given a chance now.And they ought (to)put it on TV instead of them gambling stuff they got up there.These teenagers need help and that gambling stuff don't...They need help.They need a way to go where they can be...They in the space age.So grown people who know nothing about it,they can't deal with these teenagers and they got a lot of energy too.And if you block them where they can't do something creative they going to be destructive.And they are destructive.And they can't control them in school or home or nothing.But it is said that I can.So,you know,I turn around and there be about a billion teenagers.I mean it's going to happen,alright.You might say I'm the Pied Piper of Hamlin.You know that story,don't you? You know the story of the Pied Piper of Hamlin?And they wouldn't pay him and he took the children.well,you know, fairy tales have a way of happening.So I'm telling America I want some money(or)else I'm going to take their children. (Comment)...Yeah,put that in there.The Pied Piper of(spells out)H-A-M—L-A+N—D.Hamland.A1right,I talk to you later then. (Question)...Oh yes,I'm ready.Alright,bye.(Hangs up tele- phone)That’s Denver.You see,they get on there(and)they going to talk Denver.And I_be getting calls from all over the world where people ask me...I always say something that shocks me and I told him about the Pied Piper of Hamlin.It didn't strike his mind that this musician was playing.Came and got rid of all the rats and the trouble and the people, they hired him and wouldn't pay him.So he just went and he played his instrument and the children all followed him into the mountain and the mountain closed on them and they didn't have no children.Children went with the musician. Now,all these fairy tales are subject to happen if they _ activate it.So I just told him I'm the Pied Piper of H—AeM. Hamland means Egypt;It's talking about Egypt.So now that will go into print.The Pied Piper of Hamland.And so I'm always opening up some kind of way to make them think.Now, I have to go out there and(get)the children,you know. And Germany realized that.They had me to play...wel1,they had it written down there where I was playing.They had 10 nine o'clock down there at the school.I thought it was night.It wasn't.It was in the daytime playing for teen- agers in Germany at this elementary school and they wouldn't let nobody in there over eleven years old.They just had me play just for them and they were in there and I was singing about space and everything.Standing ovation and all of them cut classes to get my autograph. That happenend in Germany.And the Germans were saying yes, thank you.we needed that.And now,you see,like woody Shaw. He a great trumpet player.He's in Holland.In Amsterdam unintelligib1e.And he came out to hear us and then he said, "I needed this.Oh,I’m so happy.I needed this.I was starved for something and I left America because things weren't right for me and I needed this music."And he's a top musician.And a lot of other musicians tell me I needed this. Now,what are they talking about?well,I'm probably the only free person in America.The rest of them are chained up with they families and they religion and they...I ain't got no traditions.My mind is...where I've been(are)places up there. But,I can't tell them,well,I've been to outer space.I don't expect them to believe it.I don't care whether they believe it or not.But I am from outer space.The Creator sent me be- cause he sent so many righteous people.They didn't make it. So he looked for the worst thing in all his empire and he saw me.And he said,"I know you'll do the job."And I will, you know.I was quite happy wherever I was.I was quite happy and the Creator reached and snapped me out of my kingdom and brought me down here realizing I hate it so bad I would change it.So then I hate the condition of humanity.And then I hate me being in human form when I hate that.So he know I'm going to do something about it.I'm not going to stay down here chained up in no human body and in all these different things they got.They jails and their armies and their hospitals.Not me.So I have to do something about it. For the sake of me getting my wings back so I can fly away from this mess here.But I have to take some people with me. That is true.I have to take some with me and show the rest of the world you can fly,too.Now,that's what I'm going to do.I have to set my stuff like this and this and this and this but it's going to cause problems.Children going to leave their parents.wives going to leave their husbands. 11 Husbands going to leave their wives.Unintelligible folks are going to leave their job.They going to turn against their churches.They going to turn against their govern- ments.They going to turn against everything and I'm say(ing),wel1 now,should I do this?But really I have no choice.They just leave.Problem is,like,a woman where... a woman in South Carolina,she done wrote(to Sun Ra),she said she going to sell her house and come to Philadelphia with us.Now,she got her family.what her family going to say?Her family going to say that I got a cult.But I ain't telling her to do that so I went and told John(Gilmore), "I'm moving."Say(said),"I got me an office."I said,"Don't tell her where I'm at."But she is going(to move)and then she want the itinerary.Wherever we play she wants to be there.Now,that's going to make me 1ike,what you might say, a cult figure.And I don't have no cult.But she feels what I'm doing.She done even...It got her name and put Ra in it. You know,now you got things happening that have no control like the John Cage concert.The Jamaican heard us.He wrote me a letter and said he heard,he was standing outside listen- ing.It affected his whole 1ife.It did something to him.Now, I'm not trying to do that.I've had people come up and tell me I converted them.I'm not a religious(leader).Now,what (do they)mean by that?I've had people come up and tell me, like one man,he told me,say(he said),"when I first heard your music I thought it was the ugliest music ever been on(this)planet and eight years later I have to come and tell you it's beautiful."Now,another man told me,say," when I went out..."He said,"I bought a record called Atlantis.I liked the cover and so I took the record home with me(and)I threw the record up the highway.Getting it out of my house."And he said,"And the music stayed with me all night.I had to go back and buy that record.And ever since then I've been a Sun Ra fan.In Atlanta,Georgia a fellow say he was out with some fellas or teenagers and they were over in somebody's house.They was getting high on LSD and everything and the person in the house put on a Sun Ra record.He said,"The unintelligible went up.Bam1" He said his whole life was changed by that record.Ever since then he'd been a Sun Ra fan.Now,another fellow wrote to Down Beat and was talking about...The music they had... 12 The critics had given this Pathways To Unknown worlds some stars and(there)was a girl he was trying to get and he never could reach her so he read about this re- cord that was so fabulous.So he got the record.He invit- ed her to his house and then he wrote back to Down Beat. "1 want to know why?..."(Down beat had given the record a positive review)I had his phone number and everything. I got Sun_Ra spy system out and he was shocked when I called him up and then he said...well,he had invited this girl to his house to hear that record and he was so dis- appointed'cause all she did was listen to the record. (Dan Plonsey,Jennifer Rycenga,John Hinds,Peter Hinds and Sun Ra start laughing)He say(that)it infuriated him and he wrote that and say he had to do something.So he really wasn't against the record.It just that she got involved and listening and pay no attention to him.And you got a lot of things happening,you see.Like Betty Carter.It's a book called Notes and Tones.You got that book? John Hinds:Got it. Sun Ra:well,she said yes,this music wasn't no good... Because a girl could go out with a man and the man telling her how beautiful she is and how charming she is and all.He'd be sitting up there listening to that avant-garde music therefore the music wasn't no good. ‘Cause he's supposed to pay some attention to her instead of that music and she wrote that and he got the book. Somebody told me she said that's the worst thing she ever did.worst thing.Because I cover all planes of music.Now, she didn't know nothing about that{A lot of musicians... Like Dizzy Gillespie told somebody;"I didn't know he played with Fletcher Henderson and Coleman Hawkins."But he's a musician.He didn't know_that."I didn't know he played with Stuff Smith."He didn't know that."I”didn't. know he played with Lil Green."He didn't know that.And they just don't know nothing about me,you know.'Cause I been on this planet studying and studying and studying to find out what to do.'Cause I know the Creator going to say,"well OK,you want to help people?'And the first thing he did he...A friend of mine that say he didn't 13 believe in God,he say,"I don't believe in God.when I first met you I didn't but I can say I know there is a God.How(and)why does he treat you so mean and send you the worst people on the planet?(Phone rings and Sun Ra answers) —-:1-y-1.-p1—-1:-—--——n;:u--1-—u-q——--—n—q——--11-n—-xx--u--—:—p—n-¢———-no-—-q--——:—.-—-—-.—-u-— Sun Ra:Birds in a cage can't help themself.(They)just fly around in his cage.He can tell you he's free and then you go and feed him.He don't have to...He won't be out there digging for no worms.A bird in a cage lives very well in his cage.But,you know,it's much better out there as long as you can keep them little boys from shooting at you with their pea shooter.Birds can have a nice time.Now,I'm talk- ing things like that and it's just so vast and this Creator keep on saying yes.You can...You can do it.And I say,"I'm not.Get the Pope to do it."But this Creator said,"No,you do it."That‘s the way it is.Up in Boston a man came to me. He was in a whee1chair.He was saying unintelligible,"Yes, the rest of them failed.Please don't fail.You can do it." He was just unintelligible.And he didn't explain himself so I knew what he was talking about.Yes,I can.I have to go out and get my Omniversity and teach unintelligible and I'm going to teach you about things.You got to be part of the 0mniverse.Now,you've graduated beyond the Universe because I have,in human form,I've graduated beyond talking about a Universe.I'm not concerned with one little old Universe.I don't want to be bored so I asked the Creator,I said,"Now,if I don't do this job, I never asked you for anything but if I get there and I do something for people on the planet I would like for you to give me several solar systems and a lot of different planets and stars for my work."'Cause I don't want to be bored.If I got my mind so developed and spirit, one little planet would bore me in one day.Unintel1igible solar systems and i can just research thaqt solar system and then I can give it to somebody.I want me another one. Now,this kind of mind I got keep on moving.You got endless worlds out there and they keep on growing.worlds beget worlds.It's going out there endless.Now,why should I be 14 stuck on one planet,one solar system when you got con- stant creation going on out there?All kind of flowers and jewels and some space beings,too.So you have to be able to control them,too.they might like man and eggs for breakfast and woman,too.So,you go there to one of them planet(s)you better have yourself together where they respect you and not end up in the plate.Now,peop1e have to realize they made out of meat and some people might consider a human being as a delicasy.So they'd better watch their step.So they need somebody to tell them,now 1ook,don't go to this p1anet.They like men and woman and eggs for breakfast.Do not approach that planet. And they have to know when they go out in space where not to go.Because it's vast out there and itls dangerous. Jennifer Rycenga:wel1,thanks very much. SR:Alright.We1l,I hope I gave you some insight in some things. JR:You sure did.And,yeah,I hope to visit your planet someday. 15 Sun Ra conversation with Peter Hinds...March 28,1989..... Sun Ra:The French sent over a TV crew,too. Peter Hinds:Has the TV crew come out and talked to you? SR:They already did.They made something with us.Sti11,we were at Sweet Basil(NY).I had to stay another day(to do the interview)so I said,"well,I'1l stay."They want to interview me,you know."And you pay my hotel bi1l.So them they %aid they would.And then in the meantime I called the booking agent for to talk to him and it's Danny (Thompson)in between and the fella got mad‘cause I called the booking agent and they filmed me.And then they said they wasn't going to pay the hotel bi1l.He said he was going to pay the hotel bill. PH:who was that? SR:The French.Because they didn't want this booking agent to be in there or something anyway.So then Danny was talking to him and Danny came back anf told me (that they weren't going to pay)so I said,"Ask him again." Asked about three times so he just wasn't going to do it after he promised.And I said,"Well,I wasn't even going to be in New York if it ain't meant for I stayed in particular for this."And,we11,I thought about it.So I was really vehement.(I was)being mistreated or stepped on.So I went out and told Danny,"I'm going over there. Maybe he'll listen to me."So he was still telling Danny (no)and we was in the lobby of the Edison Hotel,you know. I reckon you been there.I don't know if you been there. PH:No,but I've talked with you(by telephone)there,called you there. SR:47th Street and Broadway.And a big lobby.So then I said, "You have to,you have to keep your word to me'cause it's not right for you to tell me things like that and then change your mind or whatever you doing,you know. Being a man don't mean just going unintelligible.It mean to have 16 some kind of principal.You should be a man of your word. You're not in France now.You're in America.You're on my turf and I don't let nobody mistreat me here."And so then that's when I hit him up in his back and I hit him in his chest and I choked him.I said,"You will pay the bill."And I drug him up there to the cashier and I made him pay it. So all New York is talking about me.So I didn't know no- thing else to do.(He said),"I'11 pay it,I'l1 pay it but don't touch me,don't touch me again.I said,"I'm not going to touch you.If you dare to think about mistreating me or mistreat me I'm not going to touch you.I'm going to shoot you or cut you.I'm not going to touch you."I said,"I'm not letting nobody,this is not Reverend King you're talking to and I'm not here on this planet for nobody to run over me and take advantage of me and lie to me.I'm not here for that. So at least I made you stop and be a man at 1ast."So he paid the bill. Photo:Ken Katowik John Gilmore Marvin(Boogaloo)Smith __‘__ _ __u____ < _. .,l .1: Photo:Ken Katowik Ronald Wilson SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786. MILLBRAE. CA 94030 © 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4. OVERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5. Cover photo:Michae1 Lavine , .; -w-;>r :v :3-ml! :‘:..-o:~:?’? .-’.‘ BELIEVE YOU WOULD FIRE ME." I SAID, “YES IOHN, IF YOU GET IN MY WAY. I'M PLAYING THIS GAME AND LIFE ON THIS PLANET DEPENDS UPON IT. AND I'M NOT GOING TO LET YOU AND NOBODY GET IN MY WAY. I WILL FIRE YOU." SO HE WAS GRYING, YOU KNOW. THEN I sAID,“wI:I.I., I'D HAVE To IoI-IN. I'M NOT AGAINST vou BUT I'M NOT GOING TO LOSE THIS GAME.” THIS CREATOR BE MOVING FAST ANDI HAVE TO GET SOME PEOPLE. IF I CAN'T arr BLACK FOLKSAND WHITE FOLKS IN AMERICA, I'M GOING TO REACH OUT AND GET ME some BRAZILIANS , AND sows NIGERIANS, AND SOME GANNIBALS. I DON'T GARE WHO I GET AS LONG AS THEY OBEDIENT AND PLAY THE GAME. SUN RA NOVEMBER 2, 1988 BUT I'M REALLY PLAYING AGAME wITH _ THE CREATOR oI= THE UNIVERSE. I'M PLAYING A GAME wITH HIM. HE MovEs A I>IE<E, I MovE A I>IE<E AND I'M GOING To wIN Too . . . wEI.I., IT'S PRACTICALLY AT THE LAsT HAND Now. AND I HAVE To MAKE MY MovEs. Now, THE CREATOR, THE WAY ‘ HE Is THAT HE BE DOING THIs TIME THING. YOU <AN ONLY HAVE so LONG To sTAND sTII.I.. HE MAKE A MovE oN vou. so THEN HE’LL GET AHEAD oI= vou. WELL, I GOT To BE SURE To MAKE MovEs AHEAD oI= HIM. I Do THAT VERY wEI.I.. soMETIMEs soME FEL- I.ows IN THE BAND THEY BE SLOW. I MAKE A MovE oN THEM. I HIRE I SOMEBODY EI.sE AND SAY YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE YOU PLACE . . . I.II(E IOHN (GILMORE) TOLD ME ONE DAY. HE SAID, “YOU KNOW WHAT? I’VE ‘i BEEN WITH YOU THIRTY FIVE YEARS. I
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-26
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 27 (January, 2000)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 2000-01-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.. . . . . . .. 13’1985000OIOOOIPOOOOOIOOOOOOOOO0 I 0 O O O 00000000000009 Peter Hinds:How are you doing there? Sun Ra:well,I'm rehearsing for tomorrow night.we playingv in Philadelphia. ‘ I PH:I see.wou1d you like me to call you back later? SR:Yeah.I got to broadcast in about...I know you can't get it.Unintel1igible Pennsylvania University in about thirty minutes and then about twelve tonight I'll be here which would be...I'm supposed to only be(not)any longer than that.So if you call about...wel1,about three. hours from now I ought to be here. PH:Sun Ra,this is Peter and John calling from California. ’SR:I_never did keep my word on sending nothing(In a previous conversation we had talked of sending various articles and reviews).Everything has been so hectic...I'm saying everything has been so hectic. ‘ PH:Has it? SR:Yeah,because I was trying...I told Danny(Thompson),,,I have three new records.That's w...
Show moreConversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.. . . . . . .. 13’1985000OIOOOIPOOOOOIOOOOOOOOO0 I 0 O O O 00000000000009 Peter Hinds:How are you doing there? Sun Ra:well,I'm rehearsing for tomorrow night.we playingv in Philadelphia. ‘ I PH:I see.wou1d you like me to call you back later? SR:Yeah.I got to broadcast in about...I know you can't get it.Unintel1igible Pennsylvania University in about thirty minutes and then about twelve tonight I'll be here which would be...I'm supposed to only be(not)any longer than that.So if you call about...wel1,about three. hours from now I ought to be here. PH:Sun Ra,this is Peter and John calling from California. ’SR:I_never did keep my word on sending nothing(In a previous conversation we had talked of sending various articles and reviews).Everything has been so hectic...I'm saying everything has been so hectic. ‘ PH:Has it? SR:Yeah,because I was trying...I told Danny(Thompson),,,I have three new records.That's what I've been working on and I told Danny to send them to you but,you know,they didn't have no labels on them or nothing.But I told him to send them last week and...I don't know if he sent them.But,you know,tomorrow is a holiday so if he did you wouldn't get it.And I had some more poems but see,these were some that never been published and I had written them in,you know, pencil and I had to write it over.I wanted-to get it to you before we go to Europe which we leaving next...Well, I think it's Thursday. PH:You're leaving Thursday? SR:well,we playing in...we playing on the twentieth.We playing in Austria so you can gauge.we got to leave about the eighteenth.when is that? PH:The eighteenth is a Friday.I heard you were doing a radio interview. SR:Oh,yeah.That's where I was.Over at Pennsylvania Uni- versity.That's where I was. PH:Was this a broadcast or an interview? SR:Live broadcast.well,interview(too). PH:Alright.I heard you were in New York on Friday also. SR:Yes,we played at SOB Club.0h no,we played at SOB Club Tuesday and then I was in New York Friday because I had to meet the booking agent and the booking agent didn't show up so then I was there all day and she showed up at midnight.I been there since eleven o'clock. PH:This is the booking agent for Europe? SR:Yeah.Her name is Gabby Kleinschmidt and she books us in Germany. PH:So is everything all set? SR:Everything is all set for me to leave.She bought the tickets and we're going to travel Europass. PH:0n the train? SR:we going to be on the train over there,yes.we going to Spain,France,Austria,Ho1land... PH:London? SR:London. PH:November eleventh I think you said. SR:Yeah,on the eleventh. Phzwhat day are you coming back? SR:we playing on the twelvth in New York for a week and somebody contacted me about coming out there at Seattle, washington.See,Danny's not here.And we possibly take that and if we take that we ought to be able to drop in on San Francisco. PH:Yeah.Wes(Robinson)would like to have you down.That could be arranged. SR:wel1,I think she's asking for the twenty third and the twenty fourth in Seattle...of November. PH:Let's see...That's.a Saturday and Sunday.So maybe you could come down right after that perhaps.I‘ll talk to Wes about that. ' ' SR:well,do that'cause I'm interested,you know. PH:Yeah.I'll talk to him and I'll call you back before you go Thursday. SR:Good. PH:(I'll)See what he thinks. PH:You're playing tomorrow night at Grendall's Lair? SR:That's'right. PH:Alright.So I'd call you Tuesday on that. SR:But I've got so many nice(poems).You know,never been published.But,you know,they were in pencil and I had to type it out myself. PH:So you've typed them out now? SR:Yeah,I typed it out. PH:Now,did you get the books(The Immeasurable Equation) I sent you the other day? SR:Let me see...Not the other day. PH:I sent one hundred and thirty books last Tuesday and you should have gotten them Saturday,Friday or maybe you can get them tomorrow or Tuesday. SR:I don't think we got them. PH:OK.wel1,you should look in the mail box tomorrow or Tuesday'cause they'll definately be there. SR:we1l,I was telling them(on the radio)I been playing the low profile'cause this is a tough job,you know. Five billion peop1e;that's what I was telling them on the radio.I said I can't deal with this.That black people in America and the white people in America unintelligible a whole planet in trouble.That's a big job.But I ended it by saying,they wanted to make a station break(and)I said yes."Now and then,listen to WXPN and you'll hear Sun Ra, Ambassador of the Emperor of the Omniverse."And that's the way I ended it. PH:A1right. John Hinds:That's great. PH:How was Chicago? SR:Oh,Chicago was wonderful.we got(reviews)that's what I have to send to you.Some write ups we had in Wisconsin and I'll try and get the write ups in Chicago.You know, the interviews...Wonderfu1 write ups.rea1ly...I'm really reaching out to those people more.I'm going to have to get me some,not a temple or a churh or nothing but some- thing,that's what I'm trying to... PH:A foundation? SR:That's good.That's what I should do.A research center, something.I told them people(on the radio):got to find out what's happening to them.They should drop everything and study why these things are happening and how they can survive.Everything is(to)contribute.In all the schools they should(ask)one day why did all this happen to people and how can they survive and overcome it?Unintelligible that's the whole thing.I'm getting down to facts now. PH:I was talking to Ronald Wilson before he came back (to Philade1phia)and he gave me some very nice write ups from Portugal.From Lisbon. SR:Oh yeah. PH:And it had your picture on the front page... SR:Right. PH:...and a whole lot of photographs. SR:You can see the attention I get over there.It's amazing, you know.So,I'11 be looking for you to call me back.I'm ’ definately going to have to supervise getting these things to you but I had to deal with this...Getting to Europe and all that and the booking agent flew over to bring me my tickets ans all of that and I had to be calling back and forth. PH:That's a lot of work. DIKRIO POPULAR ﬁnclor PACIIICO M AIIIIAM Dlnchr OIIIIO IOVEUIO DA SILVA ._‘,..... ~_,,_j iv —»,_AG0S1'04_ J V ‘ I1?‘ ‘and 3' . -m.,,_.—. V SEXTA-FEIFIA. 2 DE AGOSTO DE 1985 — N.’ M 756 -- ANO 44.“ — PRECO 40500 5SIIIQ-IWIIIUWIHBHUMIXIMIHIIIl-HIISIBJI-lﬂlﬁj!!MP!£M—!III—lI!-lI1lE%~!I§ IU.Wﬂ—T&12ﬂ5llM .:\-‘ -a:- e-~:.wE *. ~15-~ I Eusnnn, SEM rnnwéh Acnnau A Asslsmucl IJIJMIGILIAIIIA Nncrunmn DECIS/‘KO FOI ,TOMADA, COM EFEITOS A PARTIR DE ONTEM. PELA ADMINISTRACAO REGIONAL DE SAUDE. SURPREENDENDO MEDICOS E PESSOAL ADMINISTRATIVO DE APOIO PAG. 32 MEDIDA as rnevsugim‘ conmu A IIAIVA cits vﬂu rm slum « IIE IIIENIIIIAIIE PKG. 11 ._. . . . _ ﬁf E , - '-. ~-'--;a -,. :- A “. -. -1'4“’9’T.s: {J ' ~ ' s ‘ ._. .. ___ Slll IA IA GIILIEIIKIAII BUNBERJQ , -- A A ' AMANIIA A NIIITIE O6dbdoomoubredimdqcrwunamlb—oqnootbou)¢de'nnauoodo—pdo&nRa A:kauuu.mAmvoanoooAruvmaocarmoaoAnaMooanaoaGmbauum.emmdnuvo gumn¢ocomoaNmsntpaomamnrﬂeodor¢>0danawebvodo.laouooaebmm;uooa °°°°'°°0°fMY0DGUU“°°"°°"°0dKD!Oqumomd5zaonuha.¢s22mra.mnnum ‘°°‘1N°°¢¢¢0dOh0ie.o-DP-nbﬂoomwamavB0aanmchmnmm&nRaoampavooun oooonouvo.poruulntlIoneno)evtlonllnuu(1ovoa; PAGS2OE29 ‘I-. mung IIIIIELUS mu so uuaum: 0 E0050 ,’ out o ssu LAR , MEIIECE ‘: I/‘<9. L ' \ 1 HI lIIlllmHllfH1Im11uuuu....J ° Al . . ENTIIE 08 PIIEMIIIS A SIIIIIEAII Mas. 14. 15 E 32 .3... . \ PABHIIIIS EANIIAM 8880!! PI!!! V010 Caoa oamdo com asssmo parlamentav racebe. C3 Orcarnento do Estado. o-~ lama 9 se:5 escudos Dor cada volo que os elestoves mo tennarn connado mas edovooes Iegtsiauvas. coma 'eveIa ADELINO CAI- DOSO nurn arugo am one tambom exphca come 9 Que os depulados gasiam as ainrsonos in Assam- blota da Repuohca PAG. 4 DEPGSITIIS A PIIAZII IIENIIEM MENUS A panu do segunua-levu emram em vugor as novas laxas do lure. cuyo ateno mans sahenle é a rem.-cao am 1% ca .'emunerac.éo cos deposnlos a prazo Puma INVAIIEM Ann nu mun OBu'nu2doMdo.noAno at Nada. out munndo do onions 0 owns panama. rndunmoo dodnfomnoto urgnnlo. comormc so podo lot on roponqern doPAll.Ol.IlBDlcA8- TIO (loxto) 9 D0£8ANI‘O8(iol:l) Ma. 9 A SIIIA AIASTM NA EIJIIIIPA Segundo advono a Orga- nczacso Munoau do Sno- do. a sad: and a espalnan -sc na Europe. com 9soo~ caal nncadoncu om Francs. oonnnuando as EUA a set detemoral do records quamo 1 can calamsdado PAG. 32 .;.. '” SR:Yes. PH:The books I sent you are all poetry.It's all poetry plus the cover so I think you'll like those as a starter. SR:It'11 probably be here Tuesday.Maybe they was there and Danny didn't go to the(post office).He had to go to New York.He had to go to Harrisburgh one day.And then he had to go to New York and maybe that's what happenend. You can't go to the post office box on Sunday.He's not at the main post office so he have to go there weekdays. PH:How was Chicago?You mentioned you were playing,you were rehearsing a bunch of compositions that you wrote in the fifties. ‘ SR:Oh yeah.You know,with Rona1d(Wi1son)I can do that ‘cause he's with me,you know,back then so I'm getting these numbers back that we was doing then and that made that extensive repertoire out,you know.All kind of ways. So they unintelligible really getting all the way back before the thirties.Ronald's sitting here now.He say hello. PH:OK.It's been about twenty five years that you've left Chicago now. SR:Yes.well,Chicago went all out for us this time.They finally woke up.All kind of people were there,you know. Teenagers and what they call the Geritol crowd,you know. The farmers and the unintel1igib1e.They were having a con- vention and they came here,too.And they liked us.So we reached a1l,we broke the age barrier...And the class bar- rier,you know.Different class of people,broke that.They all like what we doing. PH:Did you have any musicians sitting in,joining the band for that week. . SR:No,because things are tightening up even more.I got to deal with the whole spectrum of music and some musicians are not ready for that,you know.They got to be spirit- ually...well,it's hard to explain.Wel1,they got to be adventursome spiritually and they got to be able to watch me at all time and really feel what I want them to do.Not really know it,just feel it without...Layout, come in,they create.It's at that point now.It's like you go to talk to some people and they know German.So you speak German.And people have a different kind of spirit so you supposed to know what they need in music. You being the doctor and you play that and they come out just as happy as they can be.That is what will happen if people would come out and shake my hand.Then they look so happy.And that...that means that I have achieved the thing which I set out to do.To bring happiness to this planet. Unintelligible the music and I'm going to amplify the music even more in there.And I know(I)can't have no low profile but the job has to be done. PH:Sun Ra,when you were in Chicago...Is that where you picked up your first tape recorder? SR:Sound Mirror. PH:The Sound Mirror? SR:Yes.That was the first one they put out as far as I know PH:was that the name of the machine? SR:That was the name of it.The Sound Mirror. PH:And this was what?In 1950 or something? SR:Yeah because...No,it was before that because I had it when I was playing with Fletcher Henderson.Too bad I didn't record him but I did,I had that(recorder). One time I had a wire machine.First I had that and then... But I got this...That's what I recorded Stuff Smith on. The Sound Mirror. PH:I wanted to ask you about that.And you did this at home? SR:At home,yes. PH:And I read that you only had enough tape to record... SR:That's all 1 had.See,I didn't have much tape and I erased something to put that on there and we played to- gether.He was very interested,but unfortunately I didn't have any more tape.Stuff really liked what I was doing, you see.He say,"You know what?One day white folks are going to wake up and hear you play.I don't know what's wrong with them.They can't hear this?"He said I was doing something different on the piano. JH:Do you have any more tapes left? SR:No.That got discarded. PH:when did you first hear about the tape recorder? SR:well,I was reading in a magazine about it.The tape (recorder)and I was amazed that it could be happening (with)paper,too.Still got some of those tapes. PH:You have some paper tape? SR:Still got some paper tape and so they hold up very good but I'm going to make copies.And so I decided I wanted one so I bought one.I went down to Lionel and Healey there and I saw one and I liked it,I bought it. And then it didn't(work),it went out.You know,wasn't proper and so I got on a train and went all the way to Cleveland to the factory and had it fixed. PH:Rea1ly?So this must have been right after the war. '46 or '47 maybe? SR:It must have been something like that.It was when it first came out. JH:You should release some of those tapes. SR:well,yes.You know it's a matter of money but that's the reason I think I have to have a foundation so people can hear these tapes.'Cause I recorded everything I was doing in the early days and you know it's impossible to put all that out,in a sense.A foundation could do it. PH:were you recording the rehearsals you were doing back in the early fifties? A SR:I recorded the rehearsals.Talking and all of it. PH:Really? SR:That's right. PH:So actually you might have something with Ronald Wilson back there. " . SR:Yeah,I got something with Ronald on it. PH:Rea1ly!That's amazing. SR:I got a piece called Conversation Real crazy.He's play- ing on that. PH:Is that right. SR:And I got some more numbers,too.Real fast.And I got Come Rain and Come Shine.That's not on record but I got that.Some more songs I got that he's on there.Playing Baritone. PH:He mentioned that you were,Ronald Wilson did,that you were going to write a duo clarinet piece for Ronald and John Gilmore. SR:That's right. PH:Is that coming about? SR:That's coming about.Uninte11igib1e in Europe.You know, because over there I have good pianos.They have the best concert piano(s).Long grands for me.Uninte11igible acoustic piano is very important and over in America I don't never have a very good piano. PH:I've seen that happen. SR:we1l,America hasn't really heard me p1ay.Uninte1ligib1e, but I'm talking about in Europe(that)I have the best things to play. JH:The proper instrument. SR:Yeah;except that in sometimes I go(to places)that really poor.You know,a small town.Well,you know,they don't have the faci1ities.They might have an old fash- ioned organ.I refuse to play on that.the Hammond,you know,is alright but(laughs)I want something more modern. But in that case I play the piano.But I got so many arrangements where I can talk and sing and conduct ‘cause if I don't have the proper piano that's what I do. PH:what electronic keyboards do you currently have? SR:wel1,you know,I had to sort of soft pedal the elec- tronics uninte1ligib1e.I was in Chicago and I was fas- cinated by the digital de1ay.Sort of like an expansion of the amplifier.So I bought it.So here I go again with e1ectronics.I got an equalizer,too.So now it sounds won- derfu1.So I'll be back on my e1ectronics.I believe it expands on my...we11,I'm playing super avant—garde.You know,I'm still going to be doing the blues and the other things.Unintelligib1e going to put the whole spectrum of music on people now. ' 10 PH:Yeah,excellent.You know,also about Chicago.I was won- dering when did you first see Fletcher Henderson live. I know you heard his records for a long time but when did you first see him in person? SR:Well,to hear him...I,wel1 I was a teenager when he came to Birmingham one time.I was there and it was a problem because he had a white musician in his band. He'd been down in Gaston,Alabama and they said.we1l. (that)this white musician can't play in the band unless he blacken his face.That happenend then.Then so he came to Birmingham(and)everybody wondered what he was going to do in Birmingham.So then they say,well,(that)this white musician couldn't play.well,the steel workers, black men and other black men came there and they said, "we work with white people every day.How come musicians can't play together?"The black steel workers say,"wel1, they working,too.So how come this white musician can“t play with them?We work with white people every day.what's the difference?"So...he played.You know,as I said,I was a teenager and it was,I believe it(was)midnight or some- thing(and)I had to go home and I didn't,I didn't go up and that's why I didn't go up there(and here them play). ‘Cause they kind of frowned on that.That age being out that late at night.I was still going to school. PH:So the next time you had a chance to see him was in the forties? SR:And I was disappointed because he didn't have Coleman Hawkins with him(in Birmingham).You see,the band...some of the stars was in New York playing unintelligible and I was disappointed at that.I didn't go up and I'm sorry I didn't.But anyway,the next time was I was in Chicago and‘ he was playing at the Club Delisa and I was writing for the show there.So,therefore,I played every Monday night and then when the piano player he had(Marl Young,who later moved to Los Angeles and was,among other things,the music director for the Lucy show and,in fact,appeared on camera one time leading a band playing Billy Strayhorn's Take the 11 didn't show up for a show,Fletcher sent for me.And I played and then he kept me.That's what happenend.I knew the show'cause I was writing it.So it was logica1,in a sense,for me and that's the way I got there,you know. And I stayed with him(and)he directed.And I did have a picture of me with Fletcher but,you know,I don'r know what happened to it.It might be like I'm cleaning up in my basement so I might have it there.It would be fortunate if I find it. PH:You mentioned once that the band he was using in Chicago was from Pittsburgh.Is that true? ~ » » SR:We11,yes.That's what I heard.That it came from Pitts- 'burgh.In fact,I talked to the vocalist,George Floyd,when I was in Chicago.Unfortunately,he didn't come out to the c1ub.He called me up,though.Asked me did I remember him? It would be nice if you could get in touch with him.But I don't know.I'm going to try_to get in touch with him.If so,you can interview him. ' ' ~ PH:Yeah,George Floyd. SR:George Floyd.He's the vocalist(with)F1etcher Henderson at the Club Delisa and he sings sweet songs. 'PH:Yeah.That reminds me:Isn't Horace Henderson,doesn't he live in Seattle? SR:I heard that he's in a club there.But I don't kno how true it is. _ PH;That would be interesting if you and he could get - together. ‘ SR:Yeah,it would.He's written quite a few compositions. He had a beautiful hand but he didn't...He never did make it like F1etcher.He really had a good band. PH:Yeah,I've got a bunch of those records.wonderfu1.‘ 12 \ » . Photo:Richard Mayeda i James Jacson and Brazilian drummer j New York City...1991 I Photo:Ken Katowik Elo Omoe John Gilmore Marshall Allen Photo:Peter Hinds Sun Ra and John Hinds Santa Cruz,Ca.Apri1 1989 Just talking about Chicago once again,that's when you first picked up your Moog Synthesizer.Is that true? SR:No,I picked that up in a...I had a Wurlitzer Organ then.I had a Solovox.I had a Clavoline.But when I came to New York,that's when I went up to Moog,you know. Robert Moog.I went up there to his factory.That's where I got the synthesizer.Someone stole.that about two Years ago so it was a priceless...It was the first Mini Syn- thesizer.I've been through a lot of things where people, a lot of things disappear from me.But I'm getting ready to get back on my feet with electronics now. PH:You said you sold that(Moog)a couple years ago. SR:Somebody stole it.It disappeared.we was on the way to Europe.It just disappeared.But that was the most valuable thing I had.You have to pay.whatever you do, you have to pay for it.So I would say I paid for every- thing when that disappeared. . PH:I'll say.Back to the synthesizer;when did you first become aware of the synthesizer and or electronic music? SR:wel1,you know,we were touring for the New York State Council and we played these colleges and at that time so I was told about Robert Moog.That I should meet him. Unintelligible then I met him later on when Tam Fiofori,from Africa,knew him and insisted that I go up and meet him. So I went up to this place in New York.I forget what the »name of the place where his factory was. . PH:Upstate New York somewhere? SR:Yeah.That's where Tam insisted that Moog give me a‘ synthesizer-He said he couldn't but he did.He Qid and he put one together for me on the spot and it was fantastic.But,that's the one they disappeared.well,they got other synthesizers out.You got more in there.Nowly he's...some kind of way he's over with the Kurzweil 13 people. PH:That's right. SR:He's over there now.I played something on that piano about two months ago. PH:You recorded something on that? .SR:Yes,and_that's supposed to be on video but,you know, they moving kind of slow so... PH:Who is this? SR:That's up in Boston.I made something with Bill Sebastian on the light instrument.He got this machine that he keep on changing the name and I think it's called the Space Comman- der now.He keeps changing the name but he says he got the inspiration to build the instrument from my music. PH:Alright.Maybe he'll give one to you. SR:Yeah,well,he's still developing it but it's fantastic. He got one called the Ra Gun. ’ PH:The Ra Gun? SR:He said we got the...They got the Ray Gun and I got the Ra Gun. ‘ PH:Alright.Also...Speaking of Chicago again;I was thinking of Alton Abraham and is that where you met him and is he the man you co-founded,you might say,El Saturn Research? SR:No,what happened is some musicians...You know,a lot of people were saying my music was too far out.These musicians,which one of them,is named Israe1'cause he's a black Hebrew.He said that...0ne of them was named Fox, a trumpet player.Lonnie Fox.So they gave me the money to establish a company.Now,Abraham wasn't in it but then 14 Abraham came in later on.So then he became the presi- dent of the company.But it was my idea and these music- ians.And he became the main one who was backing it,you know.Uninte1ligible but they were the ones(who)insti— gated.Later on,you see,he's a radiologist.He's an x-ray tech(nician).So,he'd been involved in hospital all the time and it was just one of those things.And later down the line he didn't seem to really be interested in what I was talking about and that's the reason I had to...He came out in Chicago...to see us and at intermission he disappeared.So he was considered a friend but friends don't do that.So I don't know where he's at.So I have to back it myself now. PH:I used to write a lot of letters to El Saturn(and never received any answers for months.Finally received a catalogue and ordered Discipline 27-11 and Bad and Beautiful). SR:He never answers,you know. PH:That's true.I wrote twenty letters and finally one (response)came through. SR:Well,he got a lot of things there and he don't answer. So I have to do it myself.It's just like something just blocking him out and say,well,he's not the type of person, you have to do it yourse1f.So it come down,if I want to do anything for this planet I have to initiate it. PH:Yeah,that's true. SR:I have to initiate it.Because my ideas are much more advanced than,maybe,man can handle at this point. PH:Well,give it a try. SR:But I'm going to push on forward.It's terribly,prac- tically impossible that he's getting the records out. Takes a lot of money.But I got three out unintelligible. You'll really like them‘cause I'm playing this organ, 15 you know. PH:The old Kentuckian? SR:No,this... PH:The one in Georgia? SR:Atlanta,Georgia.And I named the number Hiroshima. ‘They-played it on the air tonight. PH{Really? g SR:I know you'll like it. JH:What about that tune Advice to Medics? SR:0h,yeah.Yeah,that's very beautiful. JH:It sounds like two wur1itzers.Almost like an overdub. SR:No,I played electric piano.The Wurlitzer Electric Piano. PH:It sounds like there are two of them on that record. SR:No,it's only one. PH:Just one.Yeah,you know,I was listening to Tiny Pyramids this morning and that's a tune you co wrote with Marshall Allen? SR:No. PH:'Cause it lists you and Marshall Allen as composers on that. »SR:Well,(Alton)Abraham did that.But,actua11y,it's Ronnie Boykins. 16 PH:You and Ronnie Boykins wrote that. SR:Yes,Ronnie Boykins principally. PH}That's interesting.That's a beautiful tune. SR:Yes,the same way with Angels and Demons at play. Ronnie had the bass part. PH:That's in 5/4,isn't it? SR:Yes,and then Ronnie had the bass part and then Marshall (wrote)the flute part and I put the words to it and helped arrange. PH:I've never heard the words to that. SR:It's got words. PH:Are you currently playing those tunes right now? SR:Wel1,I'm thinking about it.I got so many things that the world has never heard.It really shocks me.You see, when they sold(after it was stolen)my equipment,like my 15(ips)tape(recorder)that left(me)with all these tapes on 15(ips)speed.So I went and got me another 4 track 7 (and 1/2 ips tape recorder)but I haven't got the 15(ips) yet to play all these tapes which I could release or put them in a foundation or something, ‘ 17 Sun Ra Interview with Harrison Chastain...KPOO-FM........ Between sets at Koncepts Cultural Gallery.. Oakland,California...December 4,1985....... .. Excerpts of this interview appeared in issue one of SRR.. OODOOOOOOOOOCO 00000000000 Harrison Chastain:It seems like everytime you come to the Bay Area either the Space Shuttle has just come down or the Space Shuttle is still up there.There any coincidence to the Space Is the Place and the Space Shuttle? SR:I opened up the space age.See,nothing happens on this planet unless somebody from somewhere else allow and give permission to man to do it.They can't do anything unless they get permission from the higher sources,you know.what- ever they do.They can't even die unless they get permission, you knowyso it comes down to if you want to 1ive.If they want a better world they got to have permission.That's why a lot of people came along to try to help humanity failed. Because they didn't have the authority.This is a case where you have to have the authority to do anything to help human- ity. HC:It seems like you're having a lot of fun out there.You've been doing music for years and years.More than forty or fifty years.Is that a key to staying in this business that long?To have a lot of fun with the music that you doing. SR:Well,I couldn't do it in America.I had to go to Europe to do it,you know.Stay in Europe all the time,most the time. I'm supposed to be in France right now.They offered me a symphony orchestra and dancers and singers to create what- ever I want to.But I came out here instead.Give California another chance(laughs). HC:What brought you out here to California over someplace like France which was going to do everything you wanted for them? SR:well,what I'm doing concerns this planet.It's a case (of)are they going to live or die.It's not on the fence anymore,you know.It's going to be where they live or die. 18 They have to...They can't be on the fence anymore.They('re) like Humpty Dumpty,you know.They sit on the wall,they had a great fall.The King's horses came in,couldn't put him back together again.This is a case where a total impossibility has to happen in order to help humanity'cause all the things that's possible been done and they didn't do any good so the possible aspect failed.Now,it comes down to the unknown.The unknown has to have a chance.Things that people don't know about.Their wisdom can't save them.Their righteousness can't save them and governmental disciplines...Well,they can't do anything.You got anarchy on this planet a1ready.It's really a miracle how the rulers of this planet holding things together ‘cause it's five billion people about ready to go out,out another way.No control.Anarchy.It's about one minute to mid- night for this planet(The midnight reference comes from,I believe,The Bulletin Of Atomic Scientists Magazine which for years would adjust the clock according to how close,they be1ieved,the world was to nuclear war.At the height of the Cold war in the sixties the clock was set at three or four minutes to midnight.-Ed)So then I've been playing the low profile because I'm not a minister or anything like that, you see.And I'm not a politician and I don't believe in equality and that makes me a little different.I don't be- lieve in freedom either because I've never had any.I have to work for the Creator whether I want to or not and that's discipline.I have to do like the Sun and the stare in the sky.They have to be right in place all the time.That's what I have to be.I don't know what people are talking about when they're talking about freedom.Al1 superior beings have no freedom.They have to be obedient to the Creator.Somebody talked about freedom.Biggest lie I've been told because it can't be,you see.No one is free down here.They never have been and,rea1ly,they never will be because if they was free they would not choose to die.But since they die,they not free. So I'm talking about discipline,you see.That made it quite difficult for me in particular in this country that's talking about freedom.But I'm talking about discipline.The first man to talk about freedom,Crispus Attucks,we1l anyway the first one was a black one.He got kil1ed.Then Patrick Henry came and talking about,"Give me freedom or give me death."He got 19 "about them,you see.I’m in human form but I know this is both of them at the same time,you know.So you don't talk about those things when you're dealing on a spiritual order.You have to be an initiate.You have to go through a lot of disciplines.And then you can come before the Creator and then if you're pure at heart and you've really gotten your lessons you'll be alright.But you have to have discipline.You can't go to another sphere and talk about freedom.You won't be able to enter.You have to have disci- pline.In order for this planet to move forward they got to V be just as obedient to somebody walking around in human } flesh as they are to death.They obey that,don't they?They ' bow to that.And they don't ever tell death,"I'm not going to do that.I'm not."They bow to that.So therefore,they have 3 to recognize somebody who looks like them,who talks like w them,in flesh,and they have to be obedient.That's all it * takes for this p1anet.It's got to be one person.It took one person.Through man,death came into this world.Now,if you get something else,that got to come through somebody in the form of man.Now,I'm in the form of man,but I'm an Angel,you know,because man has tried a long time to do things.He couldn't do it.But,you know,an Angel can do a lot of things.It was an Angel that tempted Eve,you know. And so, therefore,it has to be an Angel who tempt people to get out of this.I don't like the way the planet is set up.It's wrong.It's not right.I don't like their righteous- ; ness.I don't like their wickedness.I don't like nothing ? not right for man.And I refuse to accept it.So since I'm in human form you can just prepare to change because you have to.If you're not accepting of me you can't possibly be acceptable to God or the Devil.So man will have to show me that he's worth something,you know.I've been saying he's not worth two cents and a half.But a man in Philadelphia says he's not worth two dead flies.So,you know,that is the judgement of man concernig other men saying their not worth two dead flies,.well,of course,I know they can be worth something.They can be priceless,rea1ly.Because it's in them to do some things worthwhile.But,unfortunately,nobody on this planet had the right to do right.They could just do wrong. 5 If they want to do something right,they get their heads 1 20 to --.,~..\,..”.....«. , A. chopped off and they go to jail or something.You see, there's a law that they shouldn't do right.That's be- cause when the Creator wanted them to do right they wouldn't do right.So the Creator made a law that if he caught them doing right they would be in trouble, troub1e.So,you see,a11 these men that came along talk- ing about a better day for the black people,they got wasted because they didn't have the right to do right. You have to have somebody with authority to do right or wrong if it comes to saving peop1e.The Creator does not care anything about right or wrong at this point. If he wants the planet to survive,a person can break the 1aw.Even his law to do it.That's how much he cares about peop1e.If you have to break the law,you break it. You break the law of death.You break the law of every- thing to save peop1e.That is the way it's going to be. That is the way it has to be. Continued in issue twenty eight. 21 October 1984...Pink Flamingo Motel Berkeley,Ca1ifornia.Photo:P Hinds mo/./,7/;.H :Jorn Krumpellman Photo 1. 9 n: 1. Y n a m I e G 3 R n u Qu ////4 Photo:kéh Kat§w1x June Tyson...Dayton,Ohio...1986 April 4,1980..San Francisco SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS * P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINC-I.E COPY: $4. OVERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5, b
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-27
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 28 (April, 2000)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 2000-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: O O O 2 H R P A 0 I1 D 1617‘ . ///////.7 n C 1 I A 1.. 1 .a .h S I W Sun Ra...Apri1 5,1989 San Francisco,Ca1ifornia Sun Ra:You have to be taught that.-.about the system of hitting one note and making it be a sentence.I—-Iit one note and Inake it be a word as according to the way you play it as Whether the word is corning out right. But if you have to play happiness,you sup—- posed to play on your instru:rnent-And when the people hear,they'l1 hear happiness-NoW, that hasn't been taught on this p1anet..It's about hitting a note.But they..-l\/Iusic is a language,so if you not able to play a Word in a sentence,you not a rnusician-If you not able to put tvvihat you have toi say in one page,you are not a n'1usician.If you are not able to put-.-take the whole book and make one word andprnake people hear twenty five thousand w.or.ds.You have to do that if you're going to. be a musician in this age.And you supposed to be ableto play a note a describe I-Ieaven.You sup...
Show moreO O O 2 H R P A 0 I1 D 1617‘ . ///////.7 n C 1 I A 1.. 1 .a .h S I W Sun Ra...Apri1 5,1989 San Francisco,Ca1ifornia Sun Ra:You have to be taught that.-.about the system of hitting one note and making it be a sentence.I—-Iit one note and Inake it be a word as according to the way you play it as Whether the word is corning out right. But if you have to play happiness,you sup—- posed to play on your instru:rnent-And when the people hear,they'l1 hear happiness-NoW, that hasn't been taught on this p1anet..It's about hitting a note.But they..-l\/Iusic is a language,so if you not able to play a Word in a sentence,you not a rnusician-If you not able to put tvvihat you have toi say in one page,you are not a n'1usician.If you are not able to put-.-take the whole book and make one word andprnake people hear twenty five thousand w.or.ds.You have to do that if you're going to. be a musician in this age.And you supposed to be ableto play a note a describe I-Ieaven.You supposed to_be able to play a note and you describe Hell and people's souls can interpret it.And you supposed to be able to play a note and let thexn see God.And you can let them see everything'cause rnusic is a language/I‘hat is if you a musician in this age.This is another age and you part of the Cosmos and you've been a part of it all this tiIne.You citizens of the cosrnos.Citi2:ens of the Oniniverse and Universe.But you've just been Earthrninded all this tirne_.But the Cosmos does not care that if you don't do nothing’cause ignorance of the law is no excuse for you and,therefore,they not even going to think about your enslavenient 1 and yor being true to governments or arInies.They don't care'cause they haven't been in it and they expect for you to stand on your feet and be the Inan you supposed to now Without any instructions.And you can't do it unless your spirit stands up and forgets you got a body'cause ain't none of your body no Way.Be1ongs to your rnother and father and you done have no body.You have no body.You just have a spirit.’I‘hat belongs to you.So then if you cater to your body,you only cater(to)sornething that ain't nothing but something out of the reproduction systern that just a copy-And reproductions are not considered by the Cosrnos.Only something that's natura1(and)creative.Yes,but you do not expect the Creator to respect a reproduction? ‘Cause he never rnade a reproduction-1\/Ian rnakes that.So then you're Inan rnade.You just a rnan rnade product and you carne here through rnan and vvornan-In other words,you were rnanufactured.You corne here through rnan.So then you're just a Inanufactured pro-— duct.NoW,if you going to use your spirit,of course you're not Inanufactured and you're not Wornanfactured,you are a spirit.And the Creator expect you to stand up and be you- And he not going to pay no attention if you haven't been educated.I-Ie does not care.If you sick or crippled or handicapped,he does not care.I-Ie expect you to stand up and be the spirit he created and you be there and then you can stand before hirn unasharned.But otherWise,if you corne up there with anything else than his Inanufactured stuff,he. will not recognize it.I-Ie say,"Take that away from rne.I don't know what that is."Now you have to...It's really incredible What I'rn telling you that you have to do.So don't believe you've been forgiven for your sins because the Creator didn't r:nake,he ain't made no man or no woInan.I-Ie created some spirits and that's‘ what he Wants to see.Are these spirits pure? Yes they are pure but they hidden over in these no good bodies.Ain't nothing but an- irnal bodies.You got an anixnal body-And you live by feeding on anirnals and you got a V, vegetable body-You live by eating vegetables so you nothing but a vegetable.You're a vegetable and an anirna1-That's all you:are-So then you have to come down to the fact that you unintelligible your spirit-Because the Creator won't accept no vegetable in his kingdorn-Unintelligib1e accept no anirna1.So then your only hope is to do sornething about your spirit which you have never done nothing about.And then your only hope is to eat some soul food.I ain't talking about any vegetable and this rneat.I'1n talking about something for your soul.And what does your soul w'ant?It's starved,you knov_v.So because of starved souls,peop1e are very unhappy,you knoW-C)h well,they go out and try sex and dope and re1igion-VVay down in thern they are very unhappy and 1onely.And so then they have to do something about it.And the Creator wants to do soInething(and)novv is the tirne.I-{e's not Waiting.I-Ie got his prograrn what he's going to do.And he going to keep on with it.If he have to elirninate every Inan(and)vvornan off this planet and put some more people on this planet,he will do it. That's my rnessage to people-They better make thernselves worthwhile to thernselves. they better be true to .thernself'cause if you're not true to yourself,the Creator not going to accept you.Forget it.You II1L1St betrue to yourself first.And if you true to yourself,that rneans you have the discipline and precision and knowledge to really be your own saviour- If you can't do that,youAc:an just kiss yourv ass goodbye and that goes_ for everybody on this planet.Every rnan,vvornan and child.Every nation.They can kiss their ass goodbye.JuInp over in "a hole and cover up.But you do have a Creator and he's in business again-I-Ie's given rnan,rnaybe,tvvo thousand years to prove that he could.be,do sornething on his own without hiIn-VVell,they haven't done it- 'Cause.if they was able to be succesful down here he would be delighted.Because it is “ written:God is delighted when his children defeat hirn in battle.Now,of co_urse,you _ causing hirn displeasure because you have not defeated hirn and it is vvritten.I didn't write that.But,of c:ourse,they don't never read no- thing but pornography and junk but. the book says God is delighted when his children de- feat hirn-l\Tot when his children do the Islaxn thing and bow down in subrnission-Not that. Not when following his will and getting up on the cross to die.Not that.That does not de- light hiIn.VVhat delights hirn is when you de- feat hirn and then he know. his children has sorne sense.Don't nobody want a Child that ain't got no sense.And neither does the Creator.If you going to call yourself his children,Why don't you dernonstrate it?ShoW that you got some sense.Show that you in- telligent.If he says you got to die,say I'm not going to die.VVhy should I die?I'rn going to fight.--Because chickens and birds and bees and all the insects,they fight.And they got very little poWer-You ain't going to find an anirnal in the jungle that's going to bow down and just die for a Inan.'.I‘hey not going to do it.So if the anirnals in the jungle got the right to fight to 1ive,so does a rnan.So does a man. And they don't care about they got to die. They know they're out in that jung1e.But you can...You see the anirnal picture(docu1:nen—— taries)?They fight to the last Ininute against something that.-.You see,Inaybe a lion get a unintelligible,they’ still be running.'I‘hey try- ing to live.Then a rnan is not supposed to be_ not trying to survive.The animals in the jungle try to survive-VVhy shouldn't a rnan? If he got the spirit of God in hiIn,then use that.Use that.You can heal yourself.God ain't going to fight against his spirit-I-Ie can't-Use that.I-Ie ain't going to do nothing-Sit back and see What you going to do.It would greatly arnuse him to see a rnan,sornething in the forrn of rnan,daring to fight against hin'1.I-Ie would be most astounded and Inost pleased if(Creator thinks),"Oh,I got sornething to watch I never seen before.There's a rnan that fight against rne.He got a lot of courage-I want, to see what he going to do."And he would...I-Ie'd see what you going to do.Be— cause he's never seen nothing like that before.He's seen Inen fighting against rnen. They fight against rnen all the tirne.I-Ie ain't never had an antagonist that fight against hi::n.I-Ie needs a little adventure.VVhy not give it to hirn?Fight against hiIn.Just tell hiIn:I'rn not filthy and aboxninable and I'rn not What you say I arn in the Bib1e...That rnan has ears and can't hear,and eyes that can't see.I can see-I got eyes and I can see.I got ears and I can hear and you not talking about rne.You rnust be talking about sornething else.'Cause I got ears and I use my ears‘ all the time and I got eyes and I can see all the tiIne-I'rn not filthy and aborninable.I keep rny self clean . 1\/Ientally , physically , spiritually . You not talking about rne and you rnust be talking about sorneone else.You not talking about rne.So then if you got all Inen over there in equality there...I'rn not in the equal thing.I"rn out here standing.I'rn being..In~e and I'rn notfilthy and abornina-b1e-I'rn not like the beast that perishes.I don't have no appoint——“ rnent withVdeath.I don't have that-So then I don't have to fellow that law '.-cause -you ain_'t talking about rne.‘ ‘ I Sun Ra Intervievv with Harrison Chasttain. .. KPOO—-Fl\/I. . .BetWeen sets at Koncepts Cultural Gallery . . . . . . .. Oakland ,California. . .December 4, 1 9 8 5 Continued from SRR 27 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. I-IC:A lot of rnusic you played tonight was frorn the 40's——30’s and 40's.East of the Sun and Soxnewhere Over the Rainbow particu- lar1y.Do you see yourself as one of the last holders of culture,playing the big band Inusic and Inixing it up with the futuristic style of your music? SR:VVell,actually according to Governor Vvallace in Alabarna I cover all planes of rnusic and they gave rne an award for Ameri- can rnusic.l\Tot Alabarna Inusic,'but they said vAn1erican Inusic-So if Governor V\/allace could do that,and he's supposed to be a racist,I think it's tirne for all black folks to do it and white folks too in America» because he—They always talking about hirn but he gave rne-.-I-Ie gave rne credit where credit is due.So I too give hirn credit.I-Ie did a lot of things bad to black people but he honored rne-And I went out and he gave rne.--I rode in a Rolls Royce and they read unintelligible after II1€.Tl’16.SaII1e place where they'd be.--Nat King Cole would change(I'll do some research and clarify this reference in an upcorning issue.I-Ias to doc with an incident in the 50's concernig NKC and the segregation laWs)-.-They gave rne an award.So see?That is the th.ing.The cultural appreciation-I proved that's what you need. You don't need all these other things you've got-You need one thing:Culture.And that's sornething black people neglect.You see,all the rest of the countries got—All the rest of the black country's got their culture.they got their cu'1ture.But the black people in America: They don't have any.They talk about it but as a whole people they don't have any standard culture.I rnean something they can look to (and)say,this is our culture.The dancers,the singing,the ethnic structure of everything.It's supposed to be in your culture.Like,for in- stance,the only way black people can go back to Africa is not go back as Africans.They got to go back with culture-And then the Afri- cans will listen.Then they will listen because you've got your cu1ture.They got their cul- ture and you got a bridge-But if you don't have culture you see,you Won't be able to do like Reagan is doing.I-Ie's telling Russia:Ex— changing culture.Now if black people in Axnerica are talking about(it)with Russia, Russia would recognize us.But they talking about ‘other things-They talking about equality.These nations don't care nothing about that.They want to know what your culture is-So I think black people should Inake a crash prograrn and back up culture. They tried everything e1se.It didn't Work.But I'rn guaranteeingzlf they back culture and back the rnasters of different arts,they will get some results from the world because the world respects culture.I do too and I know that interests the Creator.I-Ie don't care about equality and all that.I-Ie doesn't care nothing about that but he does like beauty and if people would corne forward on a cultural plane of beauty.Not politics and all that.I'rn talking about(that)beauty is in cu1ture,basic— ally.That's where the beauty of black people and white people and everybody else alive in the cu1ture.'Cause that's the only gift people have.See...artists.That's the gift from the Creator.So when you honor that gift..-you got son:1ething.You have to honor the gift he that he "sent to you.If you let the gift go on and back up all kind of politician and other things and you never back up the rnasters of culture..'.VVell,no(surprise that is the) reason things the Way they are.But you have to have a minister of culture.You know,this country don't even have one.So I say if black people‘ in Arnerica got thern a minister of culture they'd get some results from the world-The World will stand up and app1aud-So that's what..-If White people Won't do it,the black ones need to do it.You can't afford to... Every other country got a Ininistry of cul-— ture but An1erica.Got a VVar Departrnent(and) everything else-Don't have no culture depart—— rnent.You see,that just rneans that...It doesn't rnatter.So you see all these disasters happen- ing to peop1e.You got to do something to please" the Creator.And What is that?Culture and beauty.You see?Because this is a very ugly place down here.I Wouldn't have this planet if they gave it to rne.It's ugly planet- It's‘ set up to go off.A11 these volcanoes rnight go off in the rnorning and you take off into space.You'1l jet out there if you're not careful.So then if people would wake up and see the disaster spreading and then stop being so cornplacent they wou1d...VVell,being righteous not going to help thern.They got to be sincere.Totally sincere.That's all it takes.If you can find sincere people and other people recognize it.That's it. I-IC:Talking about sincere:VVhat is your observation about the jazz scene in the 80's? SR:VVell,really the only sornebody playing real jazz is rne because I know it frorn start to finish-I was able to see Bessie SInith,1\/Iarnie Srnith , Clara Srnith , Fletcher Henderson , Fats VValler.I‘ saw eVerybody.And I Was able to see the groups that didn't Inake it.And when I play I put all of thern together,really.To try to express What the World Inissed.Because the black people didn't support sorne groups that were very nice like the Sunset Royals and the Carolina Cotton Pickers(and)Felton's Florida ‘ Stornpers-The White race didn't chronicle theIn,you know.They didn't record thexn and those were the ones Who were really young and Well dressed and they didn't use dope and they didn't get drunk.They didn't do none of that.They were very dignified-They didn't rnake it.They wasn't supported by the White race(and)they Wasn't supported by the black race-I saw theIn.I'd go sornetirne wouldn't be about three or four‘ people in there listening to those fellas that Would rep-— resent‘ the culture of the black race-I saw thern.--Their groups get broken up and so the gentlernen of jazz hit the dirt-And then they put the rnen of jazz up there.And they couldn't cornpare.They were irnitaters rather than Creators and that's What you got now- You got a case where the white race picked out who they wanted to for certain things they liked about thern and they pushed thetn and they put thern over there and then they'd put thern over on the black race(and)say, "Isn't this great?Isn't this cool jazz and that (great)?But actually,it's not proper for one race to pick out what is a culture for that race-It's not right,you know.It's Wrong.Even when the Pope Went to Africa he told the people there(to)hold on to your culture and let nobody turn you away frorn your dancing 10 and your songs and your culture.But no one has told these black people over there-I'In telling thern they better hold on to their culture ‘cause that's the only thing they can offer the Creator.Everything else unintelligible is so ugly I Won't even express it.But their potential for beauty and culture is Wonder- ful 'cause they have rnusic.They‘ve got plenty of it-That‘s their treasure.Underused treasure of beauty. E-IC:Speaking of black cu1ture,there aren't too rnany black people in the audience tonight-Is there anything you can see that can be done to get rnore blacks interested in your Inusic and just in culture in general? SR:VVell,I got a p1an-I got a plan to take the white race over and give thern inirnortality and let black folks Weep and cry because I'll leave thexn out.They better start supporting rne because,you 1{I1OVV,I played the low profile and all these years I've been sitting by Watching the Reverend Kings and this and that and the other and I knew they were going to fail,you know.I didn't get into none of that-VVhat I‘rn representing is eternal and it's frorn the real Creator and I could do sornething about it(for)black people and White people here but,really,I'rn not interested.But I'll probablyhave to do the job ‘cause I went to Egypt and I was going to stay there and the Creator come and say,“Corne back there again and try thern out again."(So)I'In in Cal- ifornia now-But basically-I Went to Egypt to stay the last tirne ‘cause I was happy there. The Creator called rne out of there and brought rne back here.And my mind is in Egypt right now ‘cause that's Where I belong. And the Egyptians say so,too.Everytirne I go 11 there they say welcornehorne- I-IC:Sun Ra,you've always been an innovator- You've been years ahead of your tiIne-You've used instrurnents before anybody else and you've come out with space philosophy lon.g before the white rnan or anybody else was even drearning of going to space.So now that they're sending the Space Shuttle up every n:1onth,what's next for Sun Ra as far as anything neW?As far as innovations? ‘ SR:VVell,I brought in the space age and now I brought in the ornni age and black folks haven't even awaken to the space age yet.I can't be Waiting on thern,you knoW-The ornni age is here now and everywhere you look you see the Word ornni,oInni,ornni. ‘I-1C:VVhat's the ornni age mean? SR:VVe11,that rneans that they can get i1nrnor—— tality noW.The Creator is opening up the whole thing-l\Tot just a little old Universe but an C)rnniverse.That rneans his eternal kingdorn where they have to approach hirn as an ernp~— eror and not like something insignificant like a king.You see,you can't call the Creator a king because you got a lot of kings,you knoW.But you don't have but one ernperor and that's the Creator-NoW,if these people would approach hirn in a governmental way because he's the ruler of the C)rnniverse,and you don't approach hirn religiously.You've got to aproach hirn as citizens of the Ornni- verse because you are citizens.'But if you don't realize that you are citizens of this great Ornniverse the Creator got,you don't get no rights,you know.You don't get none because you got to realize What you are.And 12 what are you?You are citizens of the spirit world of the Creator and your spirit will have to take precedents and you follow the voice of your spirit instead of your) rnind because‘ your mind been contarninated.It's been programmed and you really can't get it together that way.The coniputers got you beat on that so you can forget it.So,you knoW,since the cornputers have taken over to do things,there‘s no place for a than as far as his brain is concerned.So what does he have‘ that the cornputer don't have?I-Ie got his spirit.So then he'll phave to use that now because the Creator got it fixed‘ Where you don't need no brain.You just push a button, you know,on your cornputer and that elimi- nates rnan as being needed.I-Ie not needed anyrnore.I-Ie not needed »in_sex either.But he don't know that yet-The Creator is putting so rnuch on rnan to Inake rnan see you can't rnake it without the Creator.And he would have to see it.VVith all these diseases and things‘ and eVerything...1\/Ian's rnain pleasure is sex,so he making that kind of hard for hi;rn.I-Ie's going to keep on Inaking things bad for rnan untill one .day rnan will stop and say, "I can't rnake it Without the Creator."That‘s all he waiting on.I-Ie waiting on rnan_ to say I can't rnake it. 4 I-1C:You talk a lot about discipline and I've heard that members of your-._.You have to have discipline to beiin the Sun Ra band.Is that the key of the longevity of some of the’ people playing in your band Ike John A Gilrnore?Sticking with you this long and do you see any musicians out there today that have the discipline to play in the Sun Ra band? i 13 SR:VVe1l,the reaso-n they with Ine,'cause I ’could go and get rne a White band and be a rnillionaire over night.In fact,I-Trance has offered rne a symphony orchestra-I'rn sup- posed to be over there now.B'ut the Creator keep the black Inusicians with me to show black people he hasn't deserted thern-C)ther- wise I'd get rid of them and get out and get rne(to be)a billionaire like Getty-But I have to have thern in there where the Creator can show the world I have not deserted theIn-An‘d so they with rne- I-IC:VVell,I want to ask you one more question on that note-VVhat you think about?... SR:Uninte11igible a Boston newspaper had headlines where I said everybody is in sorne kind of jail-These fellas in the Ra jail-Ans rny jail is the best jail in the world.Because your America is nothing but a big old jail because you can't get out of this country vvithout a passport and all the rest of the countries are jails ‘cause you can't get out unless you got a passport.You got to corne by a guard to get out.And people should stop talking about South Africa.They can't go from block to block but so wha't?You can't go out of Arnerica Without your passport.They better not catch you.So What's the difference?And you can't go frorn block to block Without a pass.VVhat's the difference?You got your pass,passport-So what's the difference?You can't-.-You got to really be reasonable and see that if it's wrong for them to have a pass for South Africa,it's wrong for countries to have passports-If you all God's chi1dren,you not supposed to have no passports-You not supposed to be seperated-You supposed to go anywhere you want to.But you do have 14 passes.And that rneans you in jail-Each country's a jai1.Europe is trying to elirninate it.they want...You have to do that in Europe.But they trying to do away with that and have a united Europe.So-..But,you know,they'1l be forced to do it because things are bad for thern and they ‘say in unity’ there's strength.As far as discipline is con- cerned,the Bible say a Inan cannot learn without discipline.And a1so(Where)there's freedorn there is death-It's in the book so they should read it sornetiIne-It say freedorn..-I proclairnate a freedorn for you. Freedorn to the sword-Freedorn to the farnine.Freedo:rn to the pestilenc-e-And that's what they get so they should stop using that word,you know-If I took over black people I'd scratch freedorn out of that dictionary because it's a trap.I'd scratch liberty out and I'd put one word in there:Discipline.Now, Inost black children can't spell discipline but they can spell freedoIn.But I know in Chicago. I had one that spelled discipline . I hadto keep on about thirty Ininutes . I said , " VVell , spell disco . You can spell that. "I kept on 'till he spelled it.And he got so tired he got into bed_ and stayed in there about two hours-.B‘ecause (it was)his first tirne he.used his Inind- Now,you got a problern with black children everywhere.They can't learn by western standards-They can't do it that way.You got to do it with-.-syrnbols and signs like they were taught that way.You got to deal with statues...And they see a statue and they say,"VVhat's that?"And you tell thern that statue is an attribute to so and so.You know, that's where l\/Ioses carne through Egypt and he rnessed up.I-Ie took the statues down and since then the black race ain't been able to learn nothing because they have to be taught 15 by syrnbols and statues and that's the way you do it.And they'll learn.Their Way of learning have to be like the ancestors did- They did it with statues and syrnbols and rnyths and they learned-They got to be very vvise.But the way it's done now is artificial- And black people aren't supposed to learn artificially- They cannot be V artificial . They're natura1s.VVe1l,they have to have a whole new prograrn.And forget being righteous ‘cause I ain't going to recognize their righteous(ness)'. And if they don't get-.-If they can't get past rne they rnost certainly can't get past God and Satan.But I know they're not righteous ‘cause I caught thern doing all kind of things. All kind of things that righteous people don't do—.And the jails full of theIn,too.So how can the jail be full of people that's righteous?But anyway,i't's something wrong here.It's something wrong vvith white people, too-But they ’haVe been misled by certain" black peop1e.that's the reason they Wrong. Certain black people have been in power in America a long tirne and they get up there and they don't care nothing about black ' peop1e‘.Al1 they care about is rnoney,rnoney, rnoney,rnoney.And white people are guilty for supporting that kind.They supporting the Wrong kind of black people.But they better stop it.It's no good. 16 Sun Ra conversation with ReV.F.W.King. . .April 6 , 1 989 San Francisco,Ca1ifornia . . . . . . . . Sun Ra:It's hidden spiritual Wisdorn.'Cause sorne fo1ks,they abuse the things that they get-They will use thern Wrong so then this is hidden.They can't get it unless they pure at heart.Unless they in tune.If they in tune with the coszrnos they'll hear things.But if they not,pass right on(by),li'ke’ "Water off a du-ck's back because it's supposed to-'Cause every- body get What they—what they deserve right noW-This is exarnination day.It's past judge- rnent day.It's exarnination day.Everybody's getting exa1'nined.As to what they say they believe in and they talk that talk and the Creator Want to know if they going to walk that Walk.They in troub1e-In trouble.They in very serious trouble.But then it's very good for thern because they'd have to change. They'd have to change noW,whether they Want to or not.\/ery serious.The Pope said the other day that every Inan and Wornan and child on this planet is in danger of getting elirninated off the planet-I-Ie said nothing about Jesus saving.I-Ie said they get it and I've been saying that they going to get evic- tion notices-That's right.They keep on abus- ing this planet.They would get eviction notice-And the black Inan ask rne,"VVhere We going?"I said,"Not niy departrnent."Let rne tell you: You better stop abusing this planet because_it’s your ho:rne-LIninte1ligib1e abused at hon1e-..They're not Wellcorne on any other planet.They Iness this up,other planets going to refuse to let thern ernbark. 1'7 RK:You should do a composition that des- cribes Venus,Pluto... - \ SR:Oh yea.h,I do that-Torr1o_rrow night...The I first night we playing at Koncepts we doing the year 2000 cornpositions.'I‘he‘ next .night we doing VValt Disney songs.Tribute to VValt Disney-Every night I do something different 'cause I'm dealing with infinity,you see.And I can't be repeating rnyself.Nature‘unintelligible. You never see two sunsets alike or sunrises.‘ It does not——1\Tature doesn't do that.It's just 1ike—I ‘saw...VVith these unintelligible in Ala- baIna——they. always wonder what happened down there with Reverend King.And a black teenager would rnarch in to the courthouse- unintelligible he wanted to do ’with some people ,and‘the police(n1an) stoodin front and said, "You can't go."He said,"Don't you . believe the rights of’ a rnan?That all rnen; are equal? "Andthe po1ice(rnan)say,"VVe11,in nature there's no equality anywhere.No two leaves alike.No two anythings alike.I believe in " nature. "The "black teenager stopped--startled- and he backed up because‘he<had to.Because it was the truth.It ‘wars the truth-Nature will not duplicate rnen.You got rnillions of trees on the(planet)but you can't find two alike- They Inight be the sarne kind.They not alike. You got to have twins.They different‘ unin- telligible. ‘ RK:I-Iow was your initiation into all this 5 mysticism and?..I Inean to pioneer all this‘... SR:I wanted to know why the Creator was doing everything for white people and noth- ing for black"people"so I asked.I wanted to know why.Just 'cause vI'rn pure in heart,I Wanted to know why all these nations doing 18 everything they want to do and they're no worse than anybody else.I Wanted to know why he was unjust or What did they do to displease hirn that he would pack thern up like sardines and ship thern-VVhy,if he didn't do it,why didn't he help the1n?I want to know why-I stopped everything so I could find out why-And I found out.I know why- But it's so involved.I had to 1earn.all lang- uages and I had to go back in the past and find out what those heiroglyphics rneant.I had to find out about that IVIoses-I went to Egypt three tirnes-I had to find out everything.I went where Christ was hiding down in that church.I Went Where l\/Ioses Was thrown the water in Egypt.I studied out by the Pyrarnids every day and the Sphinx every day.I'd be out there-I was trying to find out What hap- pened.And I found out what hapenend-But, you know,eventually black people got to know the truth.But I tried out unintelligible tell sorne What I think.First thing:I\/Iy narne is Ra so’it's starnped by all the governments in the world.A lot of people try to say sorne- thing else.VVhen I went to Egypt they starnpedl‘ even though it wasn't my na:rne.It is now-But...I...but they dicl.Sornebody asked rne,"VVell,hoW'd you get the narne Ra?You frorn An1erica."I said,"C)ver half the black people in America are ancient Egyptians." Egyptian governrnent representative(said), "True."I went to 1\/Iexico(1974),I went to the Egyptian ernbassy and they asked ‘rne about the nazrne Ra again.I said,"Over half the black people in Anierica are ancient Egyptians-"And the ainbassador said,"'I‘rue."And in Egypt the ambassador said,"Yes that is true but so are the original Israel.That's the reason We're against that Israel there now because they white and the original Israel was not White- 19 They were black and therefore the ones there ‘don't belong there.I-Ie told rne.So then I had to try again-I said—NoW,we Went in the py- rarnid and I said,"Now,this pyrarnid was built was built by black people and it was <:1edi- cated to the God Ra.That narne hasn't been said in this pyrarnid in a long tiIne-Let's say it nine tirnes-"So we said——about five of the fellas in the band said Ra nine times and the lights Went oiut-Ain't nothing but darkness. So I reckoned Ra represented darkness..-and‘ you found that in the word.In Rorne Nero- Nera rneans b1ack-Not negro.But 1\I—-E——R——A. and N~E~R~O.That rneans b1ack.Sornebody stuck that G in there and that means dead body.Negro and necro.Necro- . .nec:ropo1is rneans a cexnetary and negro,sornebody put that g in there,it rneans dead body-So then they over in this dornain of the dead body. And that is not spirit at a1l.So then they have to,they have to get out of it but then they have to—-black people were in slavery form in Egypt and they weren’t allowed to read so therefore they don't know anything-But the Creator,he-.-he put thern in there.I-Ie put thern in their condition so the World would know about hirn-They really didn't do any- thing.I-Ie said in this way he would be able to let the World know he exist by vvhat he's going to do for thern.V\/hen he take thern out of this-Overnight they'll be out of this and then the world would know about hirn.But when he put theni in there,he put thern in there—-he sent thern in this country as C-}——()-— D—S's..-Gods-Kings and Queens-He sent thern. And then they carne to this country.Because they were kings and queens they didn't have no last naIne.I<.ings don't have a last narne. Queens don't have a last na1ne.I-{e sent thern here as king and queen.They were—he sent 20 in this country as hurnanitarians and they were not slaves.I-Ie said they were hurnan—— itarians.A hurnanitarian does things for the world but they don't get paid for it.VVell,he say he put them in a position of being hu- rnanitarians so when they could sharne the world and tell the world we've never been slaves-VVe we're just hurnanitarians sent here to help you.And that way the world will be ashaxned for doing that because that's what they were and that's what they still are.Giv—' ing to the world all the ti:rne.Like it's better to give than receive.They followed it.Al— though that is not a good law,they stil1,in a sense,have defeated Satan by doing what Rev- erend King did which was,in a sense,totally wrong.I-Ie said it was wrong.I'rn going to play for his daughter...next rnonth,I think, down in Atlanta and I'In going to tell her this rnessage.I got a psychic book in Philadelphia. It was right there on the newstand.It was about Inediurns that called forth the dead and talked‘ to hirn.Reverend King cazrne to this white woInan.She said he said he tried to reach black people.I-Ie couldn't reach thern because they had the wrong idea of death.I-Ie tried to reach his daughter(and)he couldn't. I-Iis wife,his church.I-Ie could reach nobody but he told this white wornan,"You know that death is not the way they think it is and I can talk to you-"And he said,"Tell thern that—tell black people I didn't Inean thern any harrn.I was really trying to help-But I'In over here.I'In going to school.Over here we go to school.VVe can't play hookey."VVe have to be in place a1l—-and I've learned a lot.And I learned that a black rnan would never ever get anywhere untill he get another book other than the Bible.I-Ie got to have a book.Another book.This one is not good for hirn.Tell thern I said so." RK:V\/hat is that other book? SR:VVe1l‘,the Bible speaks about a little book that's better-That's the other book.The little book.And they say when you partake of it, it be bitter.But it's the little book.The 1\/Ius— lirns speak about another book,too.Another book-A little book-It have to be a little book- And then and that's Where when they get the little book it will tell thern everything.And they will change right before the World,unin— telligible the World and it Will all be changed in a twinkling of an eye-And it be changed and the World will see thern as they are.Right now the World sees thern as they think they are.But they're not those things.They're just playing parts-The Creator got thern playing parts-Test the World out.See what Would they do to a people that's cornpletely horneless. He's still doing it.Got thern horneless people out in a park-And just test on huInans.Say OK,what you going to do about these horne- less people?And they give thern a lot of rnoney and eVerything-They got nioe——a lot of food.It's a big test and all the ones take the food away.Take the hornes aWay.Uninte1ligible the hoInes.All at once they won't have things- And he turn it upside doWn.I-Ie say he going to do it.I will overturn,overturn.It's rnost dreadful but people have to learn a lesson. They got to learn a 1esson.Bec:ause they—they dealing with this freedorn thing and it's not any good.They Won't read the Bible and tell thern what freedom is-It tells thern what freedorn is.It say I proclirnate a freedom to you.FreedoIn to the sWord,freedorr1 to the farnine,just look at Africa and all thern people,freedoIn to the pestilence,look at 22 AIDS-That's freedorn-Pestilence,farnine,disease and War.And that is freedorn.VVell,I'rn talk- ing about precision and discipline because it is written:A Inan cannot learn without disci-— p1ine.I'In talking about discipline because freedorn doesn't teach anybody anything-I)is— cipline does.So I'rn talking about precision and discipline ‘cause we in that age now-You can't have a Inan driving a plane talking about freedorn.I-Ie better be precise-Anything a rnan doing now,he better be precise-And they be—VVell,they be saying God will take care of you and that's nice but...In the cerne— tary you got some caretakers over there,too. And that's what they call the:rn-So then they have to be careful of what kind of care it is- And they don't care nothing about God.They going to be in trouble...trouble,troub1e.And that book that got the word,they got to be- Black people have to be told it means some- thing different to thern than to white people- And they'll find right in there,it say the Lord makes a difference between Israel and Egyptl And (to)b1ack folks Egypt rneans black.There— fore there ain't no equality there-It rnakes a difference.Now,what's the difference between thexn and white peop1e?It's there-It was put there-Not by white people.It was put there by ...sornebody e1se.It is true-They can't—they have to realize-.-They have to be true to theInse1f.I'll put it like that.They have to be true to thernself ‘cause if they're not true to thernself the Creator not going to recognize thern.Now,that rneans they have to really be thetnselves now and use their spirit and just tell the wor1d:This is rne.I have to be rne now and I'rn not under your 1aws.I'rn—I have to do what the Creator says and then every- thing will fade away that's bad like it never have been-Now,when they carne up here... over there in Arnerica as articles of cornrn—. erce~—you'll find that in the bib1e.It say that he chose his people as a peculiar property- They talking about black people because they carne here as property-They did not corne in here as human bei.ngs.So he said it is Apeculiar property-That means it's strange property in—- deed.They carne here that way-And in Europe C}-C)-—I)—-S spells goods-C)ver here G-—O-—D spell gods.VVell,we're in European territory, real1y,but we carne in here as gods and you ' carne here in the goods departrnent because C}--()—-I)——S spell goods in Europe and it spell Gods over here so he sent(thern)over here in the goods depart1nent.In the unintelligible of cornrnerece.And that rneans they don't have no status as hurnan beings-And so when they jurnp over and try and have equality,they won't get any because they don't have ‘no legal status-They‘got_to deal with the law now.And then they got to see how this country is set up.It was set u'p—V\/hen the colonist said,"VVe,the good people of these colonies do herebye state"—They said they were the good p_eop1e.l\Tow,black people bare the bad peop1e..-'cause they say black is bad- So then if the good people,which is white people,they said it but they didn't’ say no—— thing about no black peop1e.They the bad people so then they have to get their own law.’I‘hat the bad people—and they say bad is good anyway in the black race.So here you got where bad to the White race rnean one thing and bad to the black race Inean another and they be always saying these two things. And he got two things going-And now he wants black people to wake up.VVake up ‘cause I was on the gospel station in Virgin-— ia,unintelligib1e they had rne on there,so I said,"VVe1l,God says you did very nice clown 24 in Alaban1a.Turn.the other cheek and let thern rnistreat you.If that's the way you want to show you love hirn,he appreciates it;But don't do it no rnore.Don't do it ever again-But if that's the only way you can show hirn that you love hirn he accepts that you try but he didn't want you to do it but you just went your own way-You felt that would please hirn. ’ RK:But don't do it no more. SR:Don't do it no Inore.'I‘hat's what ‘Itold the won1an(at the)stati.on.I'1l tell them again- Don't do that ever again ‘cause you don't have to.If you was on good terms with the Creator you'd never—If anybody. touched you they'd be in serious trouble in one split sec- ond.But being on bad terrns with the Creator, it's Very bad indeed because,you know,you don't have nobody.to represent you to talk to hirn.You need a...you need a lawyer now- You have to talk with hirn-You got to have a lawyer.You know Inan,if you do sornething wrong,he lets you have a lawyer-The Creat- or's the sarne way-Y.ou talk to hirn-You can get» a lawyer for A.daIn and Eve now-I-Ie can talk for thern.If he knows the book he can get thern out of t-here-All these people that's dead,if you gets you a lawyer and talk to death...'You get the dead(to)rise_. '- RI<_:VVhoc_ are some of the proxninent spiritual lawyers that are available to represent?... ;'S.R:I)onI_'t niobody know theVbook.The book is te‘rrible'.'-,Because it's very devious,you know. It got-‘pinholes and things.Un'intelligible-A lot of people gone crazy studying the Bible and that's_because of the dup1icity-But then the 25 E ., j J ‘ I ,1] :.:i Creator showed Vrne _every_t_hing it meant and it was very terrible “for Ine.I-Ie ‘showed me what it rneant. " 26 -6 Sun Ra Conversation with Peter Hindgs.¢..December 1986 Peter I-Iinds:John(I-Iinds)and I were, talking the other day aboutvvhen you carne vout here(San Francisco),I th_ink,in A1981-You had” several keyboards-You had your Crurnar at that tirne but you also had‘ a‘ stack of keyboards. Sun Ra:I stopped‘ doing that because Wasn't nobody to he1p'_rne rea1ly.I needed a roadie or soInething1And then a lot of rny instru—- rnents were ’1ost«,you~ see.Peop1e were more interested in their own things.They had to take care of that.I didn't have nobody to take care of my own: instrurnents so then I had to leave .thern.That's‘ .why sorne of thern got stolen ‘cause I__ didn't have thern with rne be- cause that would create a problern on the road.VVhen We get to p1aying,everybody be taking care of their instrurnent and that's Why rny(Yan1aha)DX—7 got left.Everybody take care of their instrurnent-They don't have tirne for rnine.I didn't have ’bu1': one this tirne (and)they left that.So you can just irnagine if I had several.VVe were in Detroit,I had an instrurnent that wasn't but one like it in the world and sorne kind of Way it disappeared- PI-I:VVhat Was 'that,noW? SR:I don't know the narne of it-Elko or sornething.It was a unintelligible instrurnent. _You could play guitar,bass,piano and drurns. ; And they were taking care of things but sornebody got in there and, was helping us and kept Vrnoving.So,you ‘see,they can't handle ’ it.'Cause they be tired when they get through 27 playing and they'd be with their instruments more or less and sornebody snuck in there and takes things.I had to start travelling light- PI-I:So you're saying sorneone actually carne in and just Walked off With one of these things. SR:SoInebody walked off with Danny's alto the first tirne We played in California at a college.And after we got through playing, students was helping us(and)one of thern kept Walking with the alto.So,you knoW,We had a lot of things disappear-Like in San Francisco at the airport.Attache case disappeared.Tape recorders and all that.So you see it's not wise-I'rn travelling more and more with less things.Although it cuts off some things What I can do.I have no choice- PI-I:That was so nice when you had that setup but,of course,I can certainly understand the problern of transporting and staying on top of it and losing the DX—that's just horrible. I'rn so glad you got it back- V ’ ’ SR:I'rn debating whether to carry itlafter that-I was really hurt by it-The reason not to think—It was serious business- PI-I:I—Iave you thought about rnaybe Inaking fan alburn or sornething like that Vusing rnultiple keyboards? ' SR:I thought about it but I‘rn trying to see what profit it is for rne to do that.It's not profitable artistically , not financially . No kind of Way.It ends up Where I have to be paying, paying,paying.I'In responsible for myself on this planet-I don't get no he1p-Everybody else 28 does-So I got more to offer than thern 'cause I got things to offer on a spiritual plane that reaches unintelligib1e-So then this planet's not Worthy of What I have to offer under the circurnstances.They're not worthy-so then I have to stop and say,well I shouldn't corn- rnunicate with theIn.At that point I shouldn't- And I got so rnany things I've written that it's utterly astounding things the World never saw and I don't know What to do with it. Burn it up or tear it up or sornething be- cause this is a spiritual vvisdorn and it's hid- den Wisdorn frorn the ages and actually quite puzzling at this point-The planet is interested in everything——VVhen I look at the TV and see thousands of folks. there looking at rnen bru—— talizing each other-I look at baseball,thou-— sands of people is there.Footba1l,basketbal1, tennis-Everything.VVhen I unintell'igible,I lplay for two hundred and fifty peop1e..I don't really think they're interested in anything ex- cept what they interested in- PI-I:l\/Iost people are just used to what's handed thern in the xnedia.And ‘When it cornes to that it's not in the rnedia therefore they don't know about it or know anything like that exists and therefore they.don't go looke ing for it.It's really tough. SR:It's difficult-I been knowing Ronald (VVi1son)al1 these years and he can't under—— stand.That rnakes Ine say how can the rest of thern possibly understand? ‘'-’’'/z; r«,,, 11-, -«-2», W ' Diliber John Gilmore Photozlohn Diliber-Oct. 30, 1 990 Freedom P1aza—Washington D.C. SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HIN DS. SINGLE COPY $5. OUTSIDE U.S. S6. sENsE. AND NEITHER DoEs THE A CREATOR. II= YOU GOING To cAI.I. YOURSELF HIS CHILDREN, WHY DON'T YOU DEMONSTRATE IT? SHOW THAT YOU GOT SOME SENSE. sI-Iow THAT vou INTELLIGENT. II= HE SAYS YOU GOT TO DIE, SAY I'M NoT GOING TO DIE. WHY sIIouLD I DIE? I'M GOING TO FIGHT . . . BE<AusE CHICKENS, AND BIRDS, AND BEES, AND ALL THE INsE<Ts, THEY FIGHT. AND THEY c.oT VERY I.ITTI.E POWER. YOU AIN'T GOING To FIND AN ANIMAL INTI-IE JUNGLE THAT's GOING TO BOW DOWN AND IUST " ~DIE FOR A MAN. THEY NOT GOING r TO DO IT. SO IF THE ANIMALS IN THE JUNGLE GOT THE RIGHT TO FIGHT TO LIVE, SO DOES A MAN. SO DOESAMAN. suN RA » APRIL 5,1989 ...lTISWRlTTEN:GOD Is DEI.I<.HTED I wHEN HIs CHILDRENDEFEAT HIM IN BATTI.E. Now, or coUIzsE,ToU cAUsE HIM DISPLEASUREBECAUSE YOUHAVE NOTDEFEATED HIM AND IT Is WRITTEN. I DIDN'T WRITE I THAT; BUT, oI= coUBsE, THEY DON'T NEVER READ NOTHING BUT \ I>oIzNoaIzApHTAND IUNI< BUT THE BOOK SAYS GOD Is DEI.Ic.HTED wHEN HIs CHILDREN DEEEAT HIM. NoT wHEN HIs CHILDREN DO THE ISLAM THING AND Bow DowN IN SUBMISSION. NOT THAT. NoT wHEN FOLLOWING HIs wII.I. AND GETTING UP oNTHE cnoss To DIE. NoT THAT. THAT DoEs NoT I DEI.I<.HT HIM. wHAT DEI.Ic.HTs HIM Is wHEN YOUDEFEAT HIM AND TH EN HE KNOW HIs<HILDREN HAVE SOME sENsE. DON'T NOBODY wANTA<HII.D THAT AIN'T GOT No
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-28
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 29 (July, 2000)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 2000-07-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: ISSUE 29 o o o 2 w w n C 1 11 A 1 .1 a h S I W ISSUE 29 JU LY 2000 Sun Ra conversation with John I.-Iinds and Peter Hinds November 1,1991e—-San Francisco,Ca. John I-Iinds:You recognize 1:hat?I-Iave you ever seen that picture?That was in '89 in Central Park(NYC)Bandshe11.VVho was the giant one? do you remember who was in that costume? Sun Ra:Danny Thornpson. JI-I:Danny? SR:(Indicates yes) JI-Ii:I-Iow's he doing?I haven't heard from him in a While. SR:He,'s staying in Houston now.In Houston, ‘ Texas . JI-1:1-Ie's in I-Iouston.Did yoLi say he was play—~ .in'g rnusic or he's in Houston? SR:VVe11,both ‘of theln I think. JI-I:Is he?A1right.VVe11,how's he doing?Is he doing ‘pretty good? S.R:I-Ie seem to be.I-Ie also working as a salesrnan in an automobile shop.I Inean sell- ing cars. JI-I: Selling cars . Used cars? SR:New cars . J}-I:So what does'he have to say?I guess it’s a change of lifestyle.I rnean it's kind of a step down in terrns of...
Show moreISSUE 29 o o o 2 w w n C 1 11 A 1 .1 a h S I W ISSUE 29 JU LY 2000 Sun Ra conversation with John I.-Iinds and Peter Hinds November 1,1991e—-San Francisco,Ca. John I-Iinds:You recognize 1:hat?I-Iave you ever seen that picture?That was in '89 in Central Park(NYC)Bandshe11.VVho was the giant one? do you remember who was in that costume? Sun Ra:Danny Thornpson. JI-I:Danny? SR:(Indicates yes) JI-Ii:I-Iow's he doing?I haven't heard from him in a While. SR:He,'s staying in Houston now.In Houston, ‘ Texas . JI-1:1-Ie's in I-Iouston.Did yoLi say he was play—~ .in'g rnusic or he's in Houston? SR:VVe11,both ‘of theln I think. JI-I:Is he?A1right.VVe11,how's he doing?Is he doing ‘pretty good? S.R:I-Ie seem to be.I-Ie also working as a salesrnan in an automobile shop.I Inean sell- ing cars. JI-I: Selling cars . Used cars? SR:New cars . J}-I:So what does'he have to say?I guess it’s a change of lifestyle.I rnean it's kind of a step down in terrns of being around you. SR:VVe11,he's still in unintelligible booking people.Connec1:ed with some kind of club there,too . . . . ..I saw hirn about a rnonth ago. He carne up(to Philadelphia)- JI-I:So how's everything betvveen you two‘?Is it alright? SR:Yeah....I-ie just vvent in another direction. JI-{:Yeah,that's what I would say-Total-ly diff- erent like that. SR:He had to after he rnarried,you see. JI-I:C)h,is he rnarried right now‘? SR:(Indic:ates yes)-I mean he was married in Philadelphia-That's when he started to break-— ing up(with. Sun Ra). JI-I:Yeah,I rernernber that..But that broke up,right?That thing-Did he get rnarried again? SR:No.After his wife got all his money unin- telligib1e.That's what she Inarried hirn for- JI-I:Yeah,that's right.I re:rne1'n'ber.S_he said you can't buy love or something. SR2}-Iis rnother left hirn sorne Inoney,you knoW.After she spent all that she didn't vvant—she didn't need hirn no rnore. JI-I:Co1d,cold.That inust have rnessed his rnind up. - ’ ' ‘...;f,“-;>; SR:VVe tried to tell hirn but,you know,he was in love so you couldn't tell hirn nothing. J}-I:Yeah..-I guess they’ say love conquers all and maybe it conq‘uere'd his better sense -of judgernent,you knoW,if that happenend.The.re Inust have been sorne signs that she wasn't sincere I irnagine. SR:VVell,it caused a lot of problems ‘cause .his farnily didn't like her. JI-I:Didn't like her?Yeah---I didn't really knoW.I-ie has soxne brothers and sisters? SR:A lot of relatives-The relatiVes,did none of thern like her-’I‘hat caused a lot of confusion- JI-I:So that was the beginning of the end as far as his being able to rnake the spaceways. SR:Not a problern ‘cause his farnly didn't like her. ‘ JI-I‘:Does he want to come back? SR:Too late. J1-I:Too late-..I-Ias he asked to corne back? SR:VVe n1ov‘ed in too rnany directions-I-:Ie'.s too far behind. JI-I:VVell,he has rnissed a lot of rehearsals ‘and a lot of inforrnation-It does rnove rather fast. SR:The point is I ‘went back but you see-.- Julian Priester played with "us in V\/ashington. JI-I: In V\/ashington? Peter I-Iinds : Seattle . JH:Oh yeah,right.In Seatt1e.I was gvvondering if he would make :it down . But he played with you anyway up there - SR : Right . JI-I:That's good.He's a good reader anyway so you can put sornething in front of him and he can get it together.That's good. SR : It Went beyond reading. The problern is it went beyond reading - N ow . They have to lis — ten- JI-I:Yeah,we11 that's true,that's true.But....I think rnost rnusicians probably need sorne rehearsal with you to really get it together, don't. you think? SR:I don't rehearse no rnore- JI-I‘:I-Iovv does Kash(Kil1ion)rnake it?I rnean,he just 1istens?I rnean he has to I guess-l\To re-— hearsal.I rnean,you got a lot of chords in there and.-- SR:It's not about chords anyrnore-It's Inoving in another direction- JI-I:I'd love to hear it-I Wish I was in Phila- delphia so I could observe a little rnore closely- SR:VVe don't rehearse no rnore.'Cause they don't underestand what I'rn doing now. JI-I:The band doesn't so you just have to say here it is—-bang—follow it.Listen,right? __SR:I just play,that's all. _';l’H:_VVell’,that's good.That's a test. SR_:Sorne things they a"'in't supposed to know, you knoW.'Cause I'In dealing with space.Not everybody can be part of that-l\Teither rnen—- tally nor physical1y.Can't do it. JI-I:Not everyone's a genius,you knovv; PI-I:You"re going to do sorne recording in Noverr1ber?In New York-Is that the idea? SR:T»hey talking about it. PI-I:A.t the club or in the studio? SR:IA don't really want to record no rnore. JH : Really? that ' s a sharne - SR:Because there are some things people ain't supposed to know I think-Just like some places ain't supposed to go.It’s not up to me. Like the rnansion.I was trying to go up there;'I‘here's some more forces that's under V control,you see.that's in control.It's out of :the hands of people now-That they don't rnove_ fast enough.These other forces got control . » JH:'That would beia sharne frorn rny stand- .point.or just from rny,rnaybe,selfish stand-— point.To hear what you're doing at all times 7 is real important to me. SR:VVe1l,they got it all fixed up for me to’ go certain places..Like I'm going to South Africa. JI-I:You’re_ going to South Africa? PI-—I:V\/hen is this supposed toqhappen? SR: Decernber . PI-I:Decernber.Alright. . -Johannesburg- . - SR : Johannesburg . JI-I:It's not going to be segregated is it? SR:I suppose so. JI-I:Isn't that a little distressing though‘? SR:Not to ;tne.l\/Iaybe black folks ain't supp-— osed to know what I know..I\/Iaybe they're not.I don't know.See,right now I’rn travelling through another sort of dimension. Buster Smith conversation With John Hinds and Peter Hinds... November 1,l991...gSan Fra.nc:isco,Ca. Buster Srnithzl went to Europe with Archie? Shepp this surnnierv and it was really rny greatest gig.It was really,as far as I'In con-— cerned it was a highlite-It was one of the highlights of my life via drurnrning.'Cause this was the first tirne I was able to go out and really work and get some money for what I do.But they don't want to give us no rnoney.They love what we do but they don't want to give you no rnoney.But I rnade rnoney and I p1ayed-It was just playing jazz, rnan.It was just playing :rnyse1f.It was un- believable.And we went to Europe.VVe flew to Vienna and we did a festival there and then we caIne(and)got back to Italy and stayed about a week and a half working different festivals and things in Italy-VVorked Rome and then we went...to Arristerdani and caught a plane going_ to Japan-And we went frorn-.. ‘we went on through 1\/Ioscow.Layed over in 1\4oscow.It's a stop off going to Tokyo and then we did a weekend in Keystone Korner in Tokyo.theyn got the Keystone Korner that used to be here.That saxne cat('I‘odd Barkan) went out there and sold the name or some- thing.So..-it's Keystone Korner there.That's one of the big clubs. JI-I:Yeah,I heard it is.Just opened. BS:Yeah,it was nice.VVe stayed there a week. JI-I:A week.Alright,that's nice. BS:Yeah,we did six days. JI-I:That's nice-One place- BS: Yeah , one place - That was beautiful - _—-——.¢—.—__._—._—.—_._—._:.._..:.?_._._—.—__:j..:_.___.—.j____.—__—_._.___—......_—2.._......—i—:.._..._—.:_ BS:This is really interesting,this rnagazine (1\/Iodern Drurnrner). JI-I:Yeah,it's a good on’e-ii BS:They got some nice stuff in it.I'rn just looking at some of the things in it-eI want my brother(1\/Iarvin Srnith)to ‘see it ‘cause he's b into teaching a lot and he does a lot of read- ing.SoIne unintelligible cats gave rne-last tirne I went to 1\/Ioscow with the band-And this drurnrner,he knew _rne ‘cause I been there a _ couple of tirnes with Sonny(Sun Ra)so the cat told rne(that)he bought rne three books,Rus— sian written.And they were something else so Buga1oo,Iny baby brother,he's been Inessing with thern books for the last two,three weeks.—I-Ie practices out of thern all day.He's playing thern-It's bad" stuff but a nice cat in l\/Ioscow gave it to hiIn-Russian drun1rner.You should see hirn.I-Ie a bitch-Yeah,he gave me sorne books.Carne and gave rne a present, rnan-Three drurn books-It's-.‘all the writing's in Russian,you know.It's sorne bad books- And they got sorne bad stuff in this thing. See,they got a lot of stuff that,you know, when you really in(to clrurns).-.you know,it's saying sornething-And Bugaloo is into that. He's teaching a lot.I-Ie's playing too. J1-I:that's good to ;hear_.I-IeE's a_dyn_arnite . drummer; ‘V ' ‘ ‘ ' ;Yeah»he's a good drurnn1‘er‘;Excel1en.;.. ; l ' I -———————-—_—:..——._..—__——_.——___:...1———-_—_.————————:—jj.——.---—_——..___—_._..__._._._.¢...——-———-—-——————.. Conversation continues with rnernories, of the 1985 tour when the Srnith Brothers played together with Sun Ra. BS:I got to listen to that if 1 ever. find it (Referring to a recording of the Srnith Bro—— thers playing a duet hours before a concert in San Francisco in Septernber 1985)(and)can search it out.I remember that day.That was a lot of fun.VVe got a chance to talk and rne and hirn got a chance to play.Yeah,wel1 we do 'A I that.VVe grew up that vvay.VVe played the druxns like horns.VVe rnake thern,you know, unintel1igib1e.It's beautiful-A cat here said to rne when we carne out on the westk coast,the cat that took us to Garberville(Ca),he told Ine,he said,"l\/Ian,"he said he_ca:rne in to New York and listened to the band-And we was coming on tour so he Wanted Sonny to corne to Garberville and he carne down and heard us at the Lone Star Cafe and ‘it's in New York-And you could go upstairs.It has,like,a balcony where you can look down on the bandstand.So this(rnan),he carne in and heard me and Buga1oo.(VVe)VVas the two drurnrners in the band then.V.Ve was playing so Inuch shit.I-Ie said,"l\/Ian,"I-Ie said,"I couldn't believe what I hear_d-"I—-Ie said,"So I went upstairs to 1ook—"he could look at rne and Bugaloo straight down on us ‘cause you got a little V balcony.Lone Star Cafe.And he said that shit was true.So when I got to-..Garberville,he was talking to some other cats and rne and 9 .Bugaloo had our room so then the cats come and say,"Bu,ster come here Inan-"(He)Say, "This cat want to talk to y'a11."So then he explained as how he had looked at us and stuff. And I said , "l\/Ian! "I-Ie said , "Buster ,we love y'a1l."I said,"l\/Ian,give me the thing-" This cat Went out—he said wait a rninute-And when he carne back. he had a envelope(full of rnarijuana)-That was Garberville,baby!I'd never forget it in my life!Never in my life!The greatest place I ever been is Garberville- JI-I:Yeah,I hear ya.I hear ya,rnan-They grow sorne good things up there- BS:Oh rnan!It was really a sweetheart.It was really beautiful.And he—VVe used his drurns. VVe used his drurns-He‘s a good drurnrner- And I had a set.I had rny set and Bugaloo a used his set-VVe got it. PI—I:That's right.You were picking up sets for that(tour) . . - ' BS:And Bugaloo used his set and I lost his nurnber-I didn't 1ose(it)-The card actually wore out and I didn't have it and his narne is l\/Iichael sornething.He uninte1lig:ible-You l<.noW,he's a nice dr'urnrner.And I called him- One tirne I called hirn frorn up(by)Eureka around there and they carne up and carne and hung out with rne and brought me a present- Yeah,he's very nice-But I can't get his num- ber together,you know- PI-I:l\/Iaybe he'll be down tonight. BS:1\/Iaybe but---VVhen We was here before and I Was up,1ike,in Eureka he said it was easier for thern to corne there than to come 10 to Frisco.That's the way he said it so they carne there and caught rne-I-Iixn and the and another guy,you know.And the town- The town,G~arberville,he was the town's -'Cause Garberville is all connected with sInoke-That's what ran that town- V JI-I:Right!You better» believe it- BS:That ran that town!It was ric:h.It was rich, rnaaaan.They had the best thing..-They had the thing in the country right there.Garber— ville?Shit!l\/Ian,you ain't never seen nothing like that. JI-I:'I‘hat's really the best herb in the World. BS:That's the best,rnan- JI-I:So sweet,you know. BS:Yeah-'That's it,Inan.l\/Ian,I had one chance to witness it,Inan.And(when)we got there they had just harvest(ed).They was running around with buds that big-Like that-'..'I‘his buds for you.It. was un(be1ievab1e).VVe unintelligible to a party.They took us to the party,to the cat's house.(Laughs)Boy,you ain't never seen no- ;thi11ig:£.f‘;verybody,they grow their own-And corne in-They rich!They got. rich ail‘ eoff sx’x_ioke-'I‘he governn1ent—what happened- Garberville originated like this:It was there,so A one of’ the presidents took the hippies when they had that hippie Inovernent and shit and ~figure:d he'd give thern sorne land and say, ‘_'.’VVe1l',y‘all go on out there in Garberville." You know,that's about one hundred and eighty miles outside of...Frisco.North,where we had just come frorn-I-Ie say,"Y'all pgo on out there."They sent them hippies out there- 11 VVell,you know,the hippies lover there,it was about srnoke and that they got the best long- itude and latitude and shit for growing V srnoke.And they got shit there With trunks. T.he trunks of the plant is big like that.I_.il<e a tree. JI-I:Twenty feet.TWenty feet tall,you know. Buds. BS : l\/Ian!Unbelievable , rnan!UnbelieVable! JI-{:You got to cut that stuff up with sciss-—o ors.You can't break it apart with your fing- ers,you knovv.Your fingers would stick to-— gether. BS:Unbe1’ievable!VVe had a ba11,n1an.And everytirne I would corne,if I called l\/Iichael, he would corne and bring rne a Couple of things-'Cause he was one of the farrners-They» had the FBI up there-They flattenend their truck tires and all that.Garberville-Boy,that was sornething else.NeVer forget it.I'11 never forget that,Inan-It Was really unbelievable. 12 Sun Ra conversation ' November 1 t, 1 9 8 8 . . .San Francisco,Ca Sun Ra:That's What they need-’I‘hey need sornebody from somewhere else who got a birds eye of all humanity and take a look at the labyrinth they in and tell thern what to do.'Cause if they don't.--Yo'u know,a.l1 these ‘ nations,they making gerxn warfare now.They can produce according to governrnent—A nation can produce gerrn Warfare things for one two thousandth of what it take to make Weapons;One two thousandth-\/ery inexpen- sive.And it called the poor man's atornic bornb. Peter I-Iinds:l\Io defense- SR:No ‘defense. PI-I:Star wars won't save you from that. SR:It ain't going to bother the buildings-It kill the people.It kill the people.Now,that's what they facing-A~very srnall country could con1plete—They could cause havoc in Arnerica with that gerrn warfare.A thirnble— full could probably get rid of San Francisco. It's that poWer(fu1).VVe got sornebody con- nected to the band who's in the reserves.In the national reserves and he said they telling them gas masks ain't going to do no good. This gerrn,it.--it.-.the gerrns gas,it eats through the pores-I rnean saving your nose ain.'t no good.Unintel1igible and it keeps on and there's no antidote for it.It keeps on 'till it kill the person.Now,therefore..-everybody's 13 in danger-And it strikes Without warnino-You can't srnell it-Instant death.Now...now what is theworld going to do?Sornebody got rnan in trouble-;Say C)K,C)K children,if you want to kill each other here is the best way to do it- It's quick and inexpensive.Sornething is say- ing,tel1ing rnan if you like war here's a nice way to kill each other- John I-Iinds:George Bush is working on that right now. Unidentified voice:Do you have a pupil that you?..- SR:Pupil? UV:You know,fo1_lowing your. - . SR:You can't follow rne.The Creator's too dangerous for any rnan to approach.No!They better not corne up th.ere-You know,it's just.. according to the secret teaching the Creator is surrounded by evil angels and you got to get past thern-And they don't like rnan-But if you get to the Creator you get anything you want and thern evil angels be saying no-NoW, if you can get past thern and get to the Cre- ator you can get anything you want.But since they're there surrounding uninte1ligible,it ain't good.Now that's what's Written over on the secret docurnents-They--.they surround the Creator.You have to get past thern-Now,it ain't but one Way to get past thern-You have to be so pure in heart they won't bother you.Now,you can look a long while to try to find one rnan who's pure enough to approach the Creator-It's quite dangerous ‘cause they approach hirn and they ain't like he rnade thern.I-Ie'l1 be saying what is this?VVhere'd 14 you corne frorr1?And you know——you have to- He rnade nian pure.So if they go up there and ain't pure.--it ain't no good.It's not any —good.And We had sornebody connected with p sorne Vvashington DC and he saw God sitting on the throne.I-Iad on gold robe.Al1\around hirn was a go1d——go1d bearns and he was standing there naked in the back of the hall and he approached God.God said,"Get back! Stand back!"And he called Ine up and told me about it-I-Ie said—he asked I116’ what,What did that rnean.I said,"Prepare to die.11\/Ian cannot se_e God an.d live.NoW you've seen God. You've seen God.Novs},he told you to get back."I said,"Now,he rnight have been trying to save you but either way,prepare to die just in case he was telling you don't corne near rne.You rejected."I said,"But even if he accept you,then you in trouble too,you know."So then...in three rnonths he was dead.He called and say,"You know,I'rn-.- going to have to 1eave-"And he died.So then I'm saying these people should not be trying to_approach God.l\/Iy advice to then1:Don't do it.‘Cause they'll be dead.And then after he kills thern then all their sins washed away. They pure then.'Cause they can't do nothing wrong 'cause_ they dead.VVhite people say the only good indian is a dead indian.And the only good white person is a dead one,too- They started it.They have to Watch what they saying.The whole thing is terrible-I-Ie just letting rnan do anything he Want to do.And then at the end of the judgernent he corne to Inake hirn pay.They got to pay for everything they did. UV:VVell,for rnyse1f,I don't believe death is finite though. 15 3 SR:Tha~t*s the bad’ part about it.I—t would be 'wonderfulVif it was but it's not/1“hern folks are quite aware of what, I'm saying-They right here.They are quite aware of what we doing. They can hear us.But they in this darkness- They can't see us-They can here us but they ‘in great darkness-And they down there in the ground and they've had some governrnent ex- periments putting some space age rnicro—— phones in the graveyard,all over the planet and they can hear-They got tapes of voices saying,in each cernetary,what is this?V\/hat is this darkness?I-Iow do we get out of here? And they heard little children crying,well what is this?And then sornebody say we'll never get out of this darkness.So it's ‘authen- ticated.The voices in the cen1etary.And then this darkness/They can't——they can't see noth- ing-So that rnakes it very bad-It would be- If they were dead and couldn't be aware of anything it would be vvonderful but they're not.They're perfectly aware of what is being said and the proof of that?VVell,the fellow connected with us played drurns(and)travelled (with the Arkestra)and he died and so I was _telling these fellas , I said , " Trevor , Death ain' t like tha1:-'I‘revor is not dead-I-Ie just—theIn forces(have hixn in)captivity,spiritual captivity- And the suitcase was laying on the bed,and this was in front of everybody.Unintelligible- And Trevor's asking rne,"I-Iow you going to rescue rne?"I-Ie's letting Ine know that he hears rne and there it was-Now,things aren't like people think.They aren't-And every now and then sorne people are fortunate enough to have sornething to happenito let thern know that is sornething e1se.But some people never have those experiences.VVell,in Los Angeles I was at Danny's rnother's house and it was some black people carne around.About twelve 16 of them fl"OII1 different black organizations to ask Ine questions and I“ said,"I've been all over the world and every nation in the world know What I’rn saying except you.And you supposed to be black and. now you come after I've been all over the World to the other nations-Now you come asking rne things-You should be the one telling thern what I'rn say- ing at this late date."And everybody knows about Ine.So this cat,a rnaltese cat was in there.I-ie carne and stood in the Iniddle of the f1oor.And the cat said,"Raaaa,Raaaa-"I said, "See that?"And you know,in five Ininutes wasn't no black folks in there-They got out of there so quick I don't know how they... vBut see,then the cat—-that wasn't enough-The cat carne on—Now,they're sitting there stunned and the cat came up on thern unin- telligible , "Raaaa,Raaaa. "I said , " See that? "Now, the cats want to know what prograrn I have for the cats.They didn't have no sense of humor and they didn't ask no more ques- tions and in about five Ininutes wasn't no—— body there but rne and the cat.Now,that happenend right in front of the band.The band was there,you know,they used to strange(things).They couldn't go——They could- n't go nowhere. Unidentified vvornan's voice:It's a regular occurence. Unidentified woman's voice #2:I Inean it gets to the point,I guess you just expect it. SR:VVel1,I just laughed at it.You know,1ike I'm telling the band,"Y'all should sharpen your ears up and listen to what's being said." VVe was in a restaurant corning down here and the waitress was saying,every tirne she put a plate she said,"I-Iere you go."And sornetirne she'd get food ready,she'd say, "I-Iere you 'go_"and somebody would corne and get the food-VVhen she came to the tables Buster was sitting there and she say,"I-Iere you go-"She put it——Sornebody say," Here you go" and then she say,"I-Iere you go,God-" I say,"Did you here that?"No-I said,"VVel1,_I'rn going to listen and see if she going-—She said, she told you,'here you go-'Three Words to y'all-l\ToW,she put a fourth Word there when she carne to rne-And I'm going to listen and see if she say it."And everyone she say,"I-Iere you go,here you go-But she told rne_,"I-Iere ' you go,God-"l\IoW,I be listening to things all the tixne and I be,When I'n'.1 going on the highway I be Watching.VVe Was at one place and they had a cafe.I-{ad 1\/Iurder Burgers up there.I couldn't get nobody to go get a rnur—- der burger-I said,"Go and get a l\/[urder Bur- ger."They all refused-It had up there(on the sign)Good enough——-(Brood enough to die for- So I said,VVell,go and get a l\/Iurder Burger- VV_el1,nobody get——I said,"I Want to see what it is."They refused. UVVV#2(Nancy):That sounds like Santa Cruz- UVVV# 1 : Nancy , she studied under the . . . VVhat was that institute? Nancy:I've studied in Santa Cruz Where I studied audio engineering and sound with the instructor that was formerly chief engineer at the Record Plant but had his own music where he uses an Ernulator and works with brain waves-Bob Beatty(?)-Do you know Bob Beatty? SR:Brain waves . 18 N:Yeah,where different thoughts trigger different sequences in—You hook yourself up or you hook up anybody and we went down to San Diego to the Center- for l\/Iusic Ex- perirnent and I've done work with people and I-.. SR:San Diego-That's where we going from‘ here. N:That I find it just find it really fascinating and I haven'.t been dovvn to San Diego for a nurnber of years but'I worked with this rnan andgwhen he lives in Santa Cruz but I was just telling her the different things that I've done and,I rnean,that's what. I love about rnusic is that it opens a lot of realrns.It opens up everything-It opens all the doors- SR:Oh yeah,definately.It's a language-..Yeah, VVe1l,I'rn trying to get the planet is to be more ignorant and less wise because it's so big out there.It's ixnpossible for you to-say you know. N:VVhen you see now that you don't know you open yourself up. SR:That's right-VVhen you know you say I know that I don't know.Then all the forces will be trying to help you.’Cause your rnind is open,you see-And that's when I went to other p1anets.VVhen these beings told rne we need sornebody...to go...Earth going‘to be in trouble,We need sornebody to go.I said,"VV-hy rne?"(They rep1ied)"VVe1l,you have the kind—of rnind that you can accept things."So I went- But I rnean,they didn't force Ine to go in a sense and the way they did,they shined sornething on rne like a giant spotlight and 19 1 Ya :' :‘! ‘1 4 '2 then all at once-—I call it trans—rnoleculari— zation.I could see through rnyself like every-— thing——And then I Went up and I found my- self on another planet.And then I was up there by rnyself-I realized I was by Inyself and I was in a huge stadiuxn rnaybe about five blocks square and I was in the last seat Way up in the dark-I said,"VVell,I'rn up here by rnyself-I'rn going to hide back here where they can't see rne-I don't know why they brought Ine up here-"And. then it was like- it was like.-.on a platforrn down there.Like a prizefighting ring-VVay. down there,you see. I could see then1-And they had antennas-.I_.ittle antennas right there-And little antennas right here-l\ToW,so I say,"'_I'In not going down there.They look different from rne-I don't know What’ they going to do to .rr1e."And then they called rny narne-I said,"I'rn not going there-They Inight have brought me here but I'rn not going down there-"And barn!They teleported rne down on the st.age-C)ne split second I was sitting up there and then I'rn down there with then1-And they talked to rne- 'I‘hey Was saying,Well,they Wanted rne to be like thern and they Wou.1d give rne.--(an anten-na).I said,"No!T.hat tnight hurt rne(if)you put sornething "up there and then you rnight hit a ner‘Ve-Don'tv do that-"But then——_'so then there I was there and then they -started tel——' ling rne about.-.the teenagers in Arnerica and down here they going to get out of order- There going to be a big generation gap and Wasn't going to be where they'd be able to contro1.T.hey told rne everything that was going to happen-They_wanted rne,to teach rne What to do when that happenend-VVhen it be- carne cornplete(ly)chaot'ic.And I said,"I don't want nothing to do with it-"And then they brought rne down-Back down to Earth and 20 they. were with rne and I was in this building that was like a little bathroorn.There was a curtain up there and...It' was a court yard.In the court yard was a lot of people milling around and they said,"VVhatever we instruc- ted you,,you go out there.AYou got the» authority.'I‘alk to thern."I said,"I‘rn not going out there.It look like they angry."They said, "They're not angry,they're bewildered.l\Tow you go out there and we told you what to do.I said,"I'rn not going."And they pushed rne out through the curtain and I was on this balcony and then all the people turn around looking at that balcony.And then the vision faded away.But I'In in the unintelligible of the court yard as a Gentile.The nations of the wor1d.That's what the court yard iszthe nations...The Jews had where they—the Gen- tiles couldn't come in to the temple in the court yard.So now I'.rn supposed to(be)talking to Genti1es.And they listened-Because that's the way it is,you kno'w-It's going to be-—They got to‘ have a solution to these problerns.I got the answers but I'In not—:I'rn not a preacher or politician.I don't fit in to that category.Now,in Chicago I was talking to peop1e,basically black people and a black rnan carne up and say,"You knoW,he be talking these strange things but God sent Ine a vision last nightwhere he going to corne be- fore the UN.The UN ain't going to know where to place hiIn.Like there won't be no seat for what they‘ talking about-I-Ie going to get one a1right-I-Ie corne to the UN and therefore you should listen.You should 1isten."But I don't want thern to listen to rne, you know. UVVV#1:VVell,they'l1 probably have to rnake a spot dealing with rnusic.Because the "UN ‘ 3‘"lea-\nsai.<I-Iu»»e*z;wvsa~,sse&a¥:n:zzq¢»».;u~<as+s.v.W.~ .- .. ......~.«<-~44-r'¢»v ,r..:- 2' -5 ':“- f_ ._‘i'.:"‘?*,"‘ ’ ":_‘;§. ya: 1 i if 1 » % '3 .333 3 “:4 .1 l .:.'.:.-.-.«_" 2- : ' 1 - doesn't have anything to do with rnus;ic,do SR::VVel1",'the_UN ‘sgot 4ou_t'_'s“ide: the got a big;'a fr1’on_urne’nt"’or sioijniething ’ saying’ _ saor_,ne,pthing:'"1ike the‘ pCreat‘or' going? to ‘send ‘one person to take over the_AU'N.Iti"s’ oout t'her'e——the n1onurn'ent-’That"s‘ What they got out there- And that's the reason they goththe for he going to'tal~:e it over-NoW sorne people say the 666 «Anti—Christ is Corning and« he going to take overrall the n_ations.Cornp1ete dicta- torship-’I‘hat »is._..that's v\}hat's going to happen_.But ain't ‘nobody going to be 'able to do nothing.If they Want to have some sex they got ‘.tO'CC)1'I1e back to Big Brother.You do not haveono sex-You do as to1d.Now that's going to happen.And people have to do as told or else they get Wasted,you know.You have corn_p1ete.authority and people can save thernselves by doing with Adarn and Eve didn't do.They Weren't obedient and all these people are descendants of 'two.A rnan and a vvornan who weren't obedient to the Creator, And everybody is in trouble 'cause of thern. So therefore~,what can happen?People got to do what Adam and Eve didn't d'o'.'I‘hey have to be obedient to a Voice representing -the Creator.l\ToW When they be’ o_bedient'to the voice they going to do what Adani and Eve didn't do.And just like they wasn't. obedient~— And people get obedient,death itself Wi-ll dis—— appear.So it's up to the people.They have to do as to1d.And being righteous ain't going to help thern--The right thing to do ‘is to listen to sorneone frorn the Creator and do as told- If he tell you to do something Wrong.Do it- It's a big test.Do it.Because you can save your life or save vvhat——VVel1,you ain't save» the life.You ain't got no 1ife.'I‘his is death _22 here.And when Adarn and Eve touched that tree they died-They either died or God told a lie.Novv,'frox1*1 what I see,they the walking dead.They died and therefore everybody de- scended of Adarn and Eve rare the rdead children of the dead Eve and the dead Adam. And they're not alive.They over in sornething else.Now,when the Creator gets rid of this you'll see like it's supposed to be.This ain't supposed to be like this-You supposed to have no AIDS and all this and little children starving.You're not supposed to have that. That don't represent God-ThatA Inake God _ look like he's a rnonster or sornething.There are little children over there taking their «last breath and do you realize that God could stop all that at once?And he Watching these little children take their last breath‘.Ain't helping not one bit.Angels are wondering when is it going to happen?And he done say if all the holy rnen ask hirn to help he not going to do nothing.So you can't depend on a holy rnan-I-Ie say he ain't going to do noth— ing.I-Ie say -he only do sornething when the one cotnes who can break the code in the Bible and he can take over,all the nations in the world,and he can do what he Want to. That book-..The code has to be broken in that book.The book says so.The keys are given only to one person who would have ‘the keys to death and hell and open‘ the gates- That's it.That's what the book says.C)ther— wise you shut up -in the book.You've been booked by the Creator-Got you in that book. And that's the Way they do the Earth thing when they take—The police arrest you,they books you.1\/Iakes you put you in the book. Now,I in the book but unintelligible Won't listen to me ‘cause in New York City when they were reading and everything for having 23 ;«.;~.«..»‘.«-\\»\"r-. =-5"-'_< .»‘-';_.._;‘.f.~t‘:-Z-‘ ‘_ ’‘‘''‘?-‘‘:= ,1; X ,5! § 5 :1 V4 :3 [3 . that black revolution and I was up there on the vforutrn.'I__.eroi Jones was there and all the intellectuals and everybody.’I‘hey calledlon everybody but rne.In I-Iarlernb.Finally a teen—_- ager got up and say,"You know,y'all been up ta1l<ing.Y‘all corne up here and say unintel- 1igi’ble-Everybody on that platform has hhadl their say but one person.That's Sun Ra.l\Iow, we all in the box-Sun Ra is not in the box. You ought to let him talk 'cause he's out of the box and he can tell us how to get out of the box-But y'all haven't let hirn say no- thing."They still didn't let rne tall<-’I‘hey called on some little boys to talk-They asked thern how-—what they- could do to help the black revolution-The little boys said we could beat up little white boys.That ended the session- Everybody had to secretly srni1e.They said we would beat up little white boys.Again-.-I-Iad another rneeting.A black man got up frorn Africa‘ and said,"You kno-w,y'all'been away from Africa a long tirne-VVe didn't_know no- thing about youvor care nothing about you. You rnean nothing to us.VVe'_don't even ‘know you from Africa untill we heard your music. Now,we heard the rnusic,we know you our brothers-The rnusic told us you our brothers. Now right there Africa was telling thern the rnusic is the bridge to us-They still didn't i wake up.They still didn't"wake up.And there you are-VVhat's the trouble?They're not re- cognizing rnusic-l\/Iusic is the only bridge to Africa.That's it-And not only that but danc- ing,too 'because.-.a fellow from Philadelphia went to Africa and all the Africans ‘Was stand off.They was having a party.They unintelli- gible.They act like he wasn't nothing.They finally carne to him and said,"VVell,why don't you dance?"I-Ie said,"VVell,I've never danced, you know."They said,"But you,you're our 24 brother.You rnust_be able to dance."So he _ got out and danced and they say,"C)h,you our brother."Now,another fe11ow,he went‘ to 'I‘rin—— idad,sorneWhere he vventp and they would have nothing to do with hinFi"untill he'd been there about a Weekand they say,"'You know What?You walk just like us.You're our bro- ther-VVe can te1l.You walk like us."NoW,it cornes down to the Walk,the rnusic,the dance. Yes,anything else,forget it-And as far as you, when you playing around some people from Africa and they Want to see Whether the rnu- sic got anything to do(with thern)and they say(gestures)-And they'll dig it.If you playing some rnusic where they say(gestures),they try to catch it.Yes,they don't do like this.They say(gestures)—To see what that rnusic is so well together that they can be part of .it. That's it.So the whole solution of black people is rnusic.That's it-And creativity.Like the people in Nigeria said,"VVe don't want to see you irnitate us.VVe want to know about What did you experience in An1erica-You ex- perienced sorne things that we didn't-So then when you corne over and irnitating us your not telling us nothing about yourself."'I‘hat's right.And then some people from Africa said,"They was tired of black Axnericans try-— ing to do their thing.Stil1 they stuck."So then they didn't recognize---They Want you to do sornething else.Create,that's What it is.An African to1d—An older man told a rnusician unintelligible say,"‘You know,We can't do no- thing in Africa as far as progressing untill they corne back.And,you knoW,We just wast- ing tirne.VVe cannot do 'anything untill they corne back."So he said,"They corne?VVho you talking about?"He said,"The Inusicians.They have to corne back.Then Africa can advance. But untill the Inusicians corne back here,we 25 ».- .w...»\lx—v.*-r: .2. -.1 ‘ ‘ -2 53 § § 3 ' 3 3 ? :,:'.:.«....,.-..z-...,.l.~.,,.?;;-.,..;.,..' m.....m2»;». ‘A cannot rnake any progress."Then he told rne; "You know,like some rnusicians-—'Y'ou got to deal with the bush,you kno'w.They can't come out there or we going to kill thern..Because L they ain't suitable-But if the rnusicians pure and he got a gift'fr7or.n God he can cofne out there. He Welcorne. "B‘ut" ,he said , sorne rnusicians you got here-NoW,you a.lright-Yo'u can corne in the bush.Don‘t bring none of thern out there because We going to kill thern-"So I told Scoby(Strornan)that and Scobey wouldn't go either because he said they rnight—'I‘hey sa.id,"\/‘Ve can tell the way you dance that you our brother-But thern others,they going to kill thern if they come in the bush-Don't bring thern out there."NoW,so then Africa got sornething else going-1 Was there in Nigeria and I was talking and‘ I say, "You know,the Nigerians spent about two rnillion dollars to have their irnage—They wanted to rnake their irnage everyvx/here-I sa:id,"But I don't respect not neither one of you as rnen-You done took some people and pu_t thern in slavery and dehurnanized.Yor’u got a nerve to talk about you got some dignity- You donft have none and I don't think no—- thing about not one Nigerian ‘cause you dehurnanized the.rn."So then. a rnan'stand‘ing there said,"You know,the master has spoken the truth.'I‘he rnaster has spoken the truth-" And he saic;l,"V\/hen the rnaster——\/Vhen the Inaster gets on the——V\/hen Stevie Vvonder, when he gets on the stage and l\/Iarian 1\/.[a—— keba get up_ there I’rn going to show the rnaster that I know he's’ the rnaster-I'.rn (going) to turn the lights out."So when Stevie \/Vonder got(On stage),the lights Went out—— barn!l\/Iariarn l\/lakeba got—the ligh.ts went out-— barn!NoW,that happenend in Nigeria-So I say, "I'rn leaving here.I'rn not going to stay here- 26 _ welcorne horne Nubian. "And A l\/Ieriwether say, I caused a problern."And they said/'The rnas— ter has spoken."In Nigeria.Then another un- intelligible said,"Yes,what you- saying about what we did is true and We'd like for you to stay here and teach in-..our social science de- partInent."That happenend to me in Nigeria. So they ready for the truth.Like when I told the Egyptian,I say,"You knoW,that you got over half the black people in Arnerica are ancient Egyptians and they Egyptians.And the Nigerian(said),"True.Not only that but Israel, they supposed to be b1ack-'I‘hern white people don't belong over there.That's the reason we against Israel because the original inhabitants of Israel are black."'And it's right that thern black folks over there,half of thern are Egyptians.NoW,I went to l\/Iexico and I Went to the -Egyptian Ernbassy and I said——they say, "VVell,Why the nanie Ra?"And I say,"C)ver half the black folks in Arnerica are ancient Egyptians."And the arnbassador say,"True." l\ToW,al1 black folks gotten in Arnerica is calling thernselves Egyptian Arnericans and not no African Axnericans ‘cause Egypt is ready.They know who you are.I was talking to.a fellow the other. day.]E-Ie carne and he said he Went to Egypt and that's what they told hirn.They took hirn over there and(to see)the pyrarnids and say,"Your ancestors built this.VVe stay here,this is your hotne." And 1\/IariWether,a dancer with us,she went there and when she got off the plane the Egyptian boWed(and said),"VVelcoIne horne, she say,"Nubians?VVhere's the Nubians?" Ain't nothing but White people on the plane, she say,"I don't see no Nubians."and they said,"VVelcorne horne N'u’bian."They kept on saying(that).She said,"Oh they talking about rne."And they was talking about welcorne 27 horne.Every tirne I go there a Gerrnan(I-'-Iart——. rnut Geerken)Ineets me and say , "Vvelcorne horne Sun Ra . V\/elcorne hcrne . " Egypt . Now , I know What I 'In talking about . 28 I I I 5 E E a ! 3 2 § 5 3 5 S E I I i Conversation With Buster Smith and Peter lHinds...A'ugust 17,1987 . . . . . . . .. Peter’ I-Iinds:You rnentioned that you had rnade slorne tapes with John Gilrnore and .Bu Pleasant-Did you ever find those at all? Buster Srnith:Oh rnan,I don't know where those things at-To tell you the truth,I had a whole arsenal of tapes from Bu Pleasant and John Gilrnore and Jirnrny Anderson and Harold Vick but they're so scattered around here I wouldn't even know where to put my hands on thern. PI-I:You mean they're just out with various people? BS:1\To,they're here in the basen1ent.At the tirne my brother didn't know and a lot of the stuff got rnessed up.A lot of stuff was taped over and just practiced over and stuff.f-Ie didn't really know at the tirne-I-Ie was sort of young,you know and a lot of stuff really got rnessed up.There rnay be some still around that play but "it's down in boxes and stuff and I don't know how to put my hands on a lot of those things.I lost a lot of good tapes that way. PI-1:1 see. BS:'Cause John Gilrnore workied with us a long tirne-I-Ie worked with rne and Bu Pleasant for a year or two. PI-I:VVhat year was this? BS:This was back in 19....1963+64-Around that area.I'll take a rough guess and say 65., PI-I:Just_ afterisun Ra had corne to .New York? BS:VVell,I don't know but I had a-Yeah,I think so because I.. had been. to Europe and my dates there _with Eric Dolphy was 61- . That's the alburn I did wi_th Dolphy.Then, we. carne back shortly after that and me and Janiil worked in Chuck's Cornposite(?) for a" couple years.JaInil Nassar the bassist and ‘_ so I'rn running 63-64 and then I joined Bu Pleasant so tJohn.G.ilrnore Worked with us around 65—66-'Cause we had quite a few different tenor—All the tenor players used to work with us.John Gil.rnore,Jin1rny Anderson, Booker Ervin,I-Iarold Ous1ey,_and a couple of cats——I seen one cat back out of "Europe-— I-Iarold Ash"by-Another cat from Duke's band that played with Duke.I don't know if ‘he ever did a ‘lot of recording but he was with Duke's band and stuff-l\/Iost of the tenor players around town have worked with us at one tirne or another.But John was one of the players that worked with us for quite a while,you know.But I tdon't know the exact date but I vvould say 1965. ' ' PI-I:You irnentioined other tapes..You been tap~— ing yourself for a long time? BS:VVell,quite a few years-l\/Iaybe 1956-57 I had a lot of stuff on the quartet.A 1_ot of 6 wonderful stuff on the quartet and a lot rof it got Inixed up.I think I got one tape that a lady brought Ine frorn Sweden.Those tapes are all over the world now.That was the stuff that I did with Idrees Sulirnanpand George‘ 30 Joiner and niyself and Oscar Denard.And those tapes are all over Europe and every place,you know.Quite a few of them.I've been looking» in Europe.I'rn lo-okingj to go back be- cause I didn't get a chance to run the tapes doWn,you knoW.There's a lot of stuff that they put-I-that we rnade as tapes‘ that they put out on disc and you got to sort ofirun thern down.And then that's the way you finally get your rnoney frorn AtheIn.VVhen you find the company and they'll finally pay you.Of course,they just put thern out.Sorne cornpa—— nies will write you" and ask your perrnission‘ to put out.Like they did to Eric Dolphy thing-But a lot of the French coxnpanies and stuff just put‘ things out so we've got stuff all over Europe,you know.And one tirne we used to tape but it's just funny that some- tirnes those tapes if you aren't careful,they get sort of Inisplaced and rnessed around,you l<noW.VVe used to tape everything alrnost. PI-I:Did you bring the rnachine along or did soirneone ‘else? BS:No,in Europe we did a lot of taping frorn professional tapes. PI-I:I—IoW about in New York when you were doing Gilxnore and stuff?Did you have the rnachine? .BS:VVe had a VVol1e_nsak-VVe carried a VS/ol.1— ensak with us.A VVollensak Inachine that was very good.Put up the rnikes and just go ahead and play the regular set. (Continued in SRR 30) ' SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786. MILLBRAE. CA 94030 © 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINGLE COPY $5. OUTSIDE U.S. $6. COVER PHOTO AND INSIDE FRONT COVER PHOTO: IOHN DII.I.ABER.- ‘ 3 1 GAME TO ME. AND I'M GOING TO LISTEN AND SEE IF SHE SAY IT. AND (TO) EVERYONE SHE SAY, “HERE YOU GO, HERE YOU GO." BUT SHE TOLD ME, “HERE YOU GO, GOD." NOW, I BE LISTENING TO THINGS ALL THE TIME AND I BE, WHEN I'M GOING ON THE HIGHWAY I BE wATGHING. wE wAs AT ONE I>LAGE I AND THEY HADA GAI=E. HAD MURDER BURGERs UP THERE. I GOULDN"T GET NOBODY TO GO GET A MURDER BURGER. I SAID, “GO AND GET A MURDER BURGER." THEY ALL REFUSED. IT HAD UP THERE (ON THE sIGN) GOOD ENOUGH — GOOD ENOUGH TO DIE I=OR. so I sAID, “WELL, GO AND GET A MURDER BURGER.” wEI.L, NOBODY GET - I sAID, “I wANT TO sEE wHAT IT IS." THEY REFUSED. sUN RA » NOVEMBER 1,1933 vou RNow, I.IRE I'M TELLING THE BAND, “Y’ALL sHoUI.D sHARPEN YOUR EARs UP AND I.IsTEN To WHAT'S BEINc. SAID." wEwAs IN A RESTAURANT COMING DowNHERE AND THE wAITREss wAs SAYING, EVERY TIME sHE PUT A PI.ATE sHE A sAID, “HERE vou 40." AND soMETIME $HE’D c.ET I=ooD READY, SHE’D SAY, “HERE YOU co" AND SOMEBODY woUI.D <oME AND GET THE I=ooD. wHEN sHE<AME To THE TABLE BUsTER wAs sITTINc. THERE AND sHE SAY, “HERE vou I co." sHE PUT IT — SOMEBODY sAv, I “HERE vou 40'' AND THEN sHE SAY, I “HIEREYOU co, GOD.” I sAT,‘j‘DID ‘ vou HEAR THAT?" No.I QAID, “WELL, I'M GOING To LIsTEN ‘AND I SEE IF SHE GOING - SHE SAID, SHE TOLD YOU, ‘HERE YOU GO.’ THREE woRDs To Y’Al.L. Now, sHE PUT A FOURTH WORD THERE WHEN SHE
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-29
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

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