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Title: Sun Ra quarterly
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Prospectus: Issue 1 (June 1996) only. Ceased with: issue 5 (June 1997).
Notes: Quarterly.
Notes: Issue 1 (June 1996) only. Ceased with: issue 5 (June 1997).
Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-qty
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra quarterly, iss. 1 (June, 1996)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996-06-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Prospectus: ceased with: issue 5 (June 1997).
Text: JUNE 1996 ISSUE ONE .\..\«\\\ YEARLY‘ SUBSCRIEPTION SUBSCRIPTION $16.00. OVERSEAS: SINGLE cow $5.00, $20.00. 4&1; .. r 3'2 . . — 0.05.9.0.‘ \.- o.- 0 o. - . o q . - 0 a Q 0 1 a . On 00 . . . - I O 0.0.: ¢.O o_O 0 o " so- .u.. A ‘. 5% ‘S 9 Q .v“”“.‘ ' = 0! " .2...-.~ - qgggaﬁmumu wkmumamowémmmm _ '~«J_" ¢§«f%%NQ¥ 9..‘V I . «VIQIQ: __w,,,,‘.; -.;¢\¢J . ~n_ ‘* » I -«=2; that's what's'h-appened: a lot people put. something together, but they never tumedit .. - over and looked at the other side. And they got to look at theother side——of the jigsaw , puzzle. Some people did very good putting some things together, but they never turned it over; they didn't invert it. Now they have to face facts: according to the Bible, it said the disciples turned the world upside down. Now I did see that, but for some reason, I never heard anybody quote that passage. It daw say it. They turned the world upside down. Now they turned the world upside dow...
Show moreJUNE 1996 ISSUE ONE .\..\«\\\ YEARLY‘ SUBSCRIEPTION SUBSCRIPTION $16.00. OVERSEAS: SINGLE cow $5.00, $20.00. 4&1; .. r 3'2 . . — 0.05.9.0.‘ \.- o.- 0 o. - . o q . - 0 a Q 0 1 a . On 00 . . . - I O 0.0.: ¢.O o_O 0 o " so- .u.. A ‘. 5% ‘S 9 Q .v“”“.‘ ' = 0! " .2...-.~ - qgggaﬁmumu wkmumamowémmmm _ '~«J_" ¢§«f%%NQ¥ 9..‘V I . «VIQIQ: __w,,,,‘.; -.;¢\¢J . ~n_ ‘* » I -«=2; that's what's'h-appened: a lot people put. something together, but they never tumedit .. - over and looked at the other side. And they got to look at theother side——of the jigsaw , puzzle. Some people did very good putting some things together, but they never turned it over; they didn't invert it. Now they have to face facts: according to the Bible, it said the disciples turned the world upside down. Now I did see that, but for some reason, I never heard anybody quote that passage. It daw say it. They turned the world upside down. Now they turned the world upside down, they inverted values. Now they all‘ were ignorant men; they didn't know what they were doing, but they were told that they were going to be made ﬁshers of men. Took the fishermen, and only fishermen, seemingly—they follow, they know nothing-uh—but they saw what he was doing, and then he told them all, ”I will make you ﬁshers of men.” Now when you fish, you go out there, and use some bait, and use some nets, and you—u.h—-catch some fish. Catch a whole load of fish. And that's what happened with people. They're like the fish in the sea, you see. And the ﬁsh seem to be very free on the ocean, but then somebody comes along with a net, catches some ﬁsh, and the symbol for the net is "X.”- Because if you take ten’ and you turn it backwards. it's«net. So this “X” is used to catch people. And you got churches all over the world,. over‘ there, jumping over into the “X.” They jump into the net that somebody's ﬁshing: Now, the disciples,. they didn't know, they didn't know what they were doing. And they were chosen for that purpose: not to know what they were doing. But to put something out there in the world; that would serve as a net to catch some people. Put them all there-—-just lump 'em all together in the net—-and that's what's happening. So-you've got a lot of folks over in the net. But the net is-——uh— Christ—is "X,” and "X" means a lot of things: it means ’’unknown.’’ 1: Um—hm. - S: “X” means ”unknown,” but ”X” means Christ; you can prove it by the word ”Christmas." I'm dealing with equations, you see, and I got——uh—well, I went to school on this planet, and I ran off from Alabama——a——a discriminating state, supposedly the worst in America, after Reverend King went down there-—but there was some folks that. sent him down there because the South is still an empire. It's not part of the United States really. And it never did give up, because they still got the Confederate flag. Now- and they still got. that flag up—-so when a nation is defeated, they take their flag down. Confederate ﬂag is still the ﬂag of Alabama, so Alabama's the center and the capital of the Confederacy. And Reverend King, probably he didn't realize.——-something was-can't even control, he went there to try to break it—uh—-in Alabama, but the symbol for the flag in Alabama is ”X." So you got the, you got the ﬂag with the “X” on it, you got the stars on there, and the South is still a separate part from the United States. And they think differently. And——uh—this empire, the empire of the South, now they—they were so-—they had so much power to——they werehurting the North-uh—financia.lly, because they had people working free for them, and the North had to pay people, and so therefore they were running rings around the North, their businessmen. And that's what happened. That's when they had the war, because they wanted to break the power of the South, who had—uh—more like an aristocracy throughout their society. J: Sure. 5: Which you can see it in Gone with the Wind what they had. Mansions. They had money, money money. Uh—and‘ England, the rest of the world would deal with the South for their cotton. And they didn't really have an allegiance as far as this government is concerned, and so the war was fought not to free black people; it-was 3 fought’ to try to break the ﬁnancial power of the South: And that's what happened: they broke it. ' J: So. . . ~ ‘ 1 A ' . - 3: But it—-it's still like that in the center. ~ . . I: Is your—is your-uh-—music one of the ways of turning that puzzle over? S: Yes. It's the answer‘ to everything. Because this Being I'm dealing with the-—uh—-sent me here-—to change it. And that's a total impossibility- The problem about it——I sought to play the low proﬁle, ‘cause I'm not a minister,. and I'm not a politician; I'm a scholar, and-—uh-—I found out a thing that scholars don't like to be out there in the public eyesight. They don't haveato be, because. they [inaudible] to—uh—-search and find out some more things. And the next thing I know I was searching, looking for some answers. I found the answers, but——uh—I had to-—I had to deal withthe Bible, because- uh—they say it's in code. I'm making high marks in college—all theway through, I made it; and I wanted to know why all these thousands of years did not one scholar, not one intellectual could break the code in the Bible. I couldn't understand: why you got a book and all these folks with brains, inventing [inaudible] and they c’an'.t—-can't break. the code. So I‘-—I was—I decided to take my energies and break the code in the book; see what it really meant. And I did. But then I had—I had‘ to study [coughs] I had to study the literature of all nations, particularly Russia, France, England, to read thatliterature, that fiction, and their philosophy; I had to study everything—by myself, without a teacher, because I was being led to do it. And. therefore, I know about all the nations, what they represent, what their traditions, because-—and I know which way they headed,. I know their past, their present, and their future. So I'm like a bird that's sitting up there looking, gets a bird—eye view of all of humanity, and when I go to each country, I can feel. everything about them. I got my eyes closed, and I know what's happening. In this country, when I go from state to state, I feel when I cross the border, because I'm very sensitive, and I can- tell, when we going somewhere, from state to state,- everything changes: we crossed the border. -Now that's-—that's. great sensitivity, you see—-um—-and I come—every person I come to, I can feel what they are, I can feel what is going to happen to them, I can see everything. Just like what they call God sees, I can see with his eyes. Every person's just like a television set—and you can see any time He wants to see you. Iust take a person over——I-Ie see you-any time you want to talk to somebody, take a person over, and he talks. And" they be talking to God, face-to.-face, quite often, and don't know it. And they think the person is talking. But they haven't been able to distinguish between the person talking, and between something that's using them. And therefore, you could be talking to a little child, and a little child says something and—uh—you might think it's that little-child, but it's being talked to a little child—talk to anything and [inaudible] total impossibility—-uh—proof of that is that one time in Chicago, a—a truck got stuck under a bridge, and they were scared to move because they'd tear the bridge down, and itwas a sub-teenager there, he kept telling them, "I know how to solve the problem.” They sent for the firemen, got the police, the engineers, they sent to colleges, all was there trying to figure out how to move that truck without harming the bridge. This little boy was still saying, "I know how to do it.” They were saying, "Get away from me boy, let the men handle it.” Nighttime came almost. They finally asked him, /‘What do you say?” He said, "Take the air out.of the tires.” Yeah. All the intellectuals. And that's the way the world is: all these folks withibx-a1ns,.and they go: to admit, they can't solve the problem.‘ It's just like that little boy——I mean they need a little boy. My idea, you see, if I put something together—they want a better world. Nobody's coming along 4 with a blueprint to make a better world; with all their intelligence, they can't do it, and they got some remarkable brain people, philosophers, but they be talking against the world, but they never brought a blueprint, The Creator [inaudible] ”You want a better world, put the blueprint down, I'll make it for you." You have to have the blueprint. But they never—Some people say, "well, all the bad people; they going to hell; it will be a better world." But this Creator doesn't—is not like that. He don't care nothing about righteousness, and that's where people make a mistake. A person that troubles to do the righteous thing; they in trouble. Because he doesn't understand that. Uhh—He doesn't understand righteousness. He be trying them out to see what makes them righteous, and the next thing you know, they be dead because they can‘t—they can't prove that they righteous; because they—they'd be saying things, and this Creator, when—when He says something, well, that's it; He'll do it all right; but when people say things, they—when they're put on the test, they deviate. J: You said music is a kind of talking to the Creator. S: Oh, it's the only way possible. Music is a—it's a faster vibration than talking, you see. It moves fast. And it--it has more power than the voice. It-—(aside to Buster(?)) Buster, what are you going to do now? . Buster(?): I—-I'm going; I gotta go get some juice and some medicine. 3: Look under the bus? Look under the bus. B: I'm’ going to look under. . . S: Okay. 8: Yeah, 'cause all the bags are underneath. S: Right, that's the first mistake. B: There's an envelope in that bag. S: Okay. Yes. 8: Okay? S: So, now it comes down to-—uh—to tell the world, well, they don't really have no proof there's a God. That's what the problem is. First they have to have equational proof that there is a God, or something that could take that name. Not that it's God, that—if you go all the way back to ancient Egypt—-that the Sun priest is-—-uh—-they would teach the Sun medicine in Egypt-—uhh—that's not being taught today, because they had civilization for five thousand years; America's just four hundred years old, and it's shakin’ and quiverin'—they had a civilization—the oldest known civilization: ancient Egypt: five thousand years of precise, orderly government. Now: where were they—how-—how were they stabilized like that? So the world got to go back and see: what were they doing? What were they doing to have five thousand years of precise government, education; and the whole world, it revolves around Egypt, really, although they talk about it, but- uh——without Egypt, you wouldn't have no alphabets, you wouldn't have anything. You wouldn't have no religion either, because they were the ones talking about immortality. They were—the rest of religions were not talking about people being—uh—again, they had that idea, that it could happen, uhh-——and they set up pyramids and everything, they buried the dead like——uhh—-with the- idea that they would come back And they—and— and then—it's all sym—everything is symbolic; nothing is real. Something placed it all here, waiting for—uh—people to wake up. Waiting for them to wake up and do something. But they haven't. They have to do it themselves; It's not going to help them. So It gives them atomic bomb; see what they going to do. It's like a person goes out and buys some toys’ for her children, and that's what the Creator-—He give them some toys. In Belgium, every time I go there—-it's the only country that I—-that's doing 5 this, women be there from all over the world; they don't get no publicity, and they be marching down the street-thousands of them—and they be singing, “Take the toys from the boys." Now, that doesn't get in America. I—I haven't seen any pictures of them doing that, and they do it quite often; maybe every month, and‘ they be marching, all the -women, from different countries together, shouting, “Take the toys from the boys.” And they talking about them guns that the military got. So they never get any publicity, but I've seen it quite often. Now, so it comes down to these toys they got. Somebody making the toys—uh-obsolete, because you don't—don't need guns to kill people anymore; a thimbleful of-—um—of this new——this gas that they got could waste half of San Francisco, all of it. That's a lot of power—that's powerful. So then they're- they don't need—uh—-if America was attacked, a thimbleful of-—uh-—[inaudible] this new stuff they got, could decimate practically every city in America; they got no protection. None whatsoever. But they could get ready. They could—-uh—do what- uh——Buckminster Fuller said and make them some domes. That would-—that would protect them. They could be up under these domes, these geodesic domes. But of course they're still making their square houses and things. They wou1dn't—-they wouldn't listen to him, and he said, ”America's a spaceship." I say so too. Now, they-uh- intelligent, but—uh—dumb at the same time. Now they come to the place where they i got to prove: there is a God, or there isn't. And if there is no God; they have to be God, so you still got a God. You can't—you got to have a head. You can't have a body without a head. And—they do say Christ is the head of the church. But the head is——uh—nailed on the cross, right; nailed down. So now, that's an equation. They got to deal with equations, but they got to know now, people all over the planet got to l<now—uh-they got to know about a God. Uhh—and they have to have some kind of proof. You got to have some proof there is a God. And Igot the proof: everything bad happened on this planet is caused by God. So there's your proof: you got little children that's starving: that's the work of God. You got tornadoes and typhoons, and you got, um—that's the work of God. So he demonstrates He does exist through evil, not good. So with all these evils upon the planet, uh—they got the book that said, got Christ saying, who's supposedly the word of God, and the word of God is walking, and saying, ”I work and my father works." And the word of God is saying, "The works of the world are evil." So Christ did some evil thing. As a lot of books of the bible said, ”In the kingdom of Christ there shall be evil and fill up the days”; I'm dealing with equations—uh——I'm a cosmo- scientist. ”ln the—in the kingdom of Christ there shall be evil and fill the days.” And this is the kingdom of Christ because Christ in numerology is number five, and in Washington D.C. it's all based around number five: the pentagon. So I'm—I'm dealing with-uh—equations that seemingly—uh-—people don't know. I went to Washington,’ and I was walking by the Potomac, and--um—then all at once this picture came into my mind, saying—uh—you know, in the United States, every state touches three or four states that surround it. Washington D.C. is called a district, and it—it doesn't—it only touches—uh—two states. And it said—this-—the capital of the United States was moved from Philadelphia, to New York, and to Washington D.C. The purpose was establishing a spiritual kingdom. So now [clears throat] so they took [clears throat],Virginia and Maryland; they took Washington D.C. and put it in the midst of Virginia and Maryland for a spiritual purpose——uh—they put the pentagon—they still there—uh—and then Virginia means "land of the virgin.” Like California means ”land of the caliph.” Louisiana: ”land of Louis.” Georgia: "land of Georgia.” So that "ia” on there means “land.” So when they say Virginia, that's "virgin.” Now when they say Maryland, that's 6-. the ”land of Mary," so then—uh—Washington D.C. is in the midst of Virgin Mary. Now, they put it there, and then you got the pentagon, and penta is Christ's number, so you got Christ in the midst of Virgin Mary, still unborn. Well, enclosed in there. Now you got that; now where did that come-—who set that up? Man didn't; the whole thing is set up, and then they went and based it on liberty-—uh——and the book is very dangerous-—they based it on liberty, and men will look for liberty, but every time people talk about liberty, a lot of them die. All over the planet, you got different ones of people talking about liberty, and they getting killed, too. You've got it in Palestine, you've got it in Salvador, you've got everyehere where people are fighting for liberty, they die. Even to—like in one country down in South America, they—the people-—they got the people, all sorts of people, put 'em—they was talking about liberty and freedom—put ‘em in a stadium; shot ‘em. —Uh—in Mexico, before they had the Olympics there, some students were—um—talking about freedom of government and everything, and they came, and the soldiers came, and—uh—took them: they disappeared. Mexico—and then they came, and they came shooting. You go down there now, I played in a place where this happened, and you go there, and you can see the holes in the buildings, they died too. And Reverend Jim Jones, he took the people that looking for freedom down there—- uh—and--and—and they died; they had the [inaudible] and every one of them died. And Moses come from Egypt and brought the people out of Egypt to-—um—for freedom—into the wilderness, and—and forty years, in the wilderness, two generations: they died. And Moses died too, and was told, ”You have not come into the promised land.” He supposedly was from God—um—-but he didn't make it, and—and it was so you know, that—uh—well, you just have to—it's off in all the different books, and it's hard for a scholar to read all the books, but I've been directed to read books in a—in—and to get the books that tell the truth. Now you got a book called, Collision of the Worlds. And it sent—they send their books to me, and this day, I said, ”Well, I—why should I read that?" I thought it was fiction or something. I still don't know fully what the book is saying, but it stayed around the house for five years; I never read that book. But this force—-one day I woke up, and that book was on my pillow. I said, ”How’d this book get here?" Well, I—I reckoned I was supposed to read it, so I took the book, I was turning the pages, and down—up and saw a commentary: it had in fine letters, that—uh—Pharoah told Moses—uh—-”Watch out going out into that desert, where you're going, because you're going to meet the bloody star, Ra. You're going to meet. If you go out there into that desert, you're going to meet the bloody star, Ra." Now, that——and it didn't say any more——well now got that too, you can get the book, uh——so then there's a book called Rottleson's(???) Ancient History. And this book says, the oldest name known for God is "Ra," and the Cushite(???) equivalent of “El,” which is another name for God, "El"——it means-—uh—it means God, and then “Ra” is over there with—uh—something else. And that's what the Egyptians had: they were worshipping Ra, and they were a great kingdom—uh—they had everything, you see. But then some folks, and the Sun priestess-—well, they—that temple was started in Heliopolis-—it's still there—you do not have one stone left of the temples that they had; somebody came along and destroyed that—you got one—-one particular stone sitting up there. Now in the rest of the religions, like you got Stonehenge and every, they've got—you've got that—you can- but somebody tried to destroy completely and semblance of evidence of the temple of the Sun priest in Egypt. Now: why'd they do that? You go there, you don't even know anything been there; you don't see one stone. But you go down in Memphis, now they had down there-——uh—you see a statue of Ramses there, and some ruins of the temple, 7 but in Heliopolis, the place where all this came from, about Sun priests, and somebody tried to obliterate that off the face of the Earth. Now—So then you got to—All the schools on this planet have to close. All the chuches have to shut their doors. All the governments got to turn their thing over to this force which can lead the planet properly; ~ they have to do it, or die. Now that's my message. They have to do, as told. And they have to list one person in human form to show that they have become capable of recognizing somebody in human form, as their leader, who has intelligence enough, and the authority, to get this planet out of trouble. Now if they can't do that, if they can't recognize one person in human form, the Creator's not going to recognize any of them. Well, is He going by what—if they recognize one person in human form, without regards to color, or religion, as their leader—uh-to lead them, yes, and be obedient, yes, because they got a story saying that Adam and Eve—-the first man and woman, supposedly-were not obedient. Now—and all this is caused by two disobedient people—now, it doesn't" matter whether it's true or not; they say it is, and this particular God, whatever you say, He uses like a—uh—musician that's got a composition improvises, He improvises on what you said; and He can take it and make it the truth. So then you got where the world's in trouble [phone rings] throughout because supposedly—uh—one woman and one man who disobeyed the voice of God, because it does say in the book that Adam and Eve heard the voice of God walking in the garden. They don't say they heard—it says . they heard the voice; now have you ever seen a voice walking? They say they heard the voice walking. Now: the people got to deal with that, but they haven't dealt with that. Telephone Rings. . . End Part 1 Interview of Sun Ra by Jennifer Rycenga, November 2, 1988, San Francisco, California. ‘ Part 2 Also present (and occasionally interjecting) were Dan Plonsey, Peter Hinds, John Hinds, and Arkestra drummer Earl "Buster" Smith. This interview was conducted by Rycenga as part of her Ph.D. dissertation research in the field of religious studies and music. The interview was supposed to last no more than 30 minutes, but Sun Ra showed no signs of wanting to stop until he was finally called (repeatedly) to the waiting bus 25 hours later. What follows is the second portion of the interview, as transcribed by Plonsey (me). I am indebted to Peter Hinds for agreeing to supply a copy of his video tape which covers the portion of the interview after Rycenga’s cassette ran out. _ — Dan Plonsey, April 8, 1995, El Cerrito California Telephone Rings. . . Sun Ra: [To telephone] Hello? Hello? Yes. . .[tells somebne the band's schedule , arranges for them to call back later] Now what was I saying? Jennifer Rycenga: Um—what do you—Tell me something about discipline, about how you see that. ' I ' S: Well it's written. See, I have to go by the book. The—-the only way to make [inaudible]. You have to have something to work by. I'm going by what they say is the word of God. Like I said, they heard the voice walking—-of God. Now with all these scholars and everything, none of them has said, "How can you have~—-you know—just a voice, walking? Now I've never seen a voice walk. But it said, they heard the voice walking in the garden. And the voice spoke to them. Now, they got to see that when they talking about this religion, that this who they call Jesus Christ, the voice spoke and said, "This is my son.” It-didn't say whose voice—there you got the voice again; it's always about this voice. 50 now you go back to ancient Egypt. And you see that they are--they were dealing with the voice, they were dealing with the——the mouth. They were dealing with the eye—the mouth as eye, you got—any hole is the eye, really, like Adam and Eve. And they were dealing—they took this symbol "Ra/’ which represented the mouth, it represented the eye, and—-uh—-people got to get back to that, and they got to see: what were the Sun priestesses teaching? One thing they was teaching: whatever you did, never desire to be like God. Because then God was a very primary, low turn of disaster. And that's what they taught. Not to-—not to ever want to be like God. And then they put it over into symbols like—uh—about-—-uh—-that Lucifer wanted to be like God. And then things happened, really bad. And then Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, and things happened very bad. But you've got a whole world trying to be like God. Now it comes down to being that—eh—the book is true—uh—it's true, all right, and they got nothing but something bad enough humanity. Now, they have to—they have to be careful because they have to learn how to disciminate, but since you've got some people on this planet who are against discrimination—they're against the word, which means judgement. Now if you're against discrimination, that means you have no judgement; you cannot make any choices, because you in the status quo, and you stay there. Now the word ”discrimination” has been made a very bad word. Now they have to not use that word in that way—uh—it's not right to take a word which means something nice for 9? you, and make it be bad. Because if you take a word and make it bad, then this God, the Creator, He just say, "Oh, discrimination is bad, so I'll see that they don't discriminate.” That means that they will not make choices at all; they have no judgement. Now, so we got to deal with that, we got to deal with these—-and the word ”_liberty” is a very bad word. The word “liberty,” the word "liberal," somebody is using—like in this campaign, uh—-Bush is using the word "liberal" as something bad. Now—-so then Dukakis come and said, ,he is a liberal. Now, some folks is using that word ”liberal" to defeat him. Now it—the question is, does Bush really know that, or is he being controlled? But the word “liberal” colud make him lose the election. Some folks is using that. And then you say, "Well, what is a liberal?" So then you go to the Bible, and see what it says about liberal. It says a "liberal" is a churl. It's got it written. The liberal is a churl. So somebody used that on Dukakis, they said he is the worst possible thing that a man could be, ‘cause a "churl” according to the dictionary is a "low, contemptable, scoundrel, rascal.” Now, somebody- Bush called him a "scouﬁdrel and a rascal” maybe unknowingly, but as I said, Bush has made the word "liberal" a bad word, and he's going by the Bible. Now maybe, maybe he knows. Maybe he doesn't. But a lot of people use that book in a way to hurt people. Maybe they don't even know it. So I would say, some folks is controlling people with words. And the book does say, "Here a word, there a word, precept upon precept, line by line until they be taken and snared.” Now, the book is saying that people can be snared by words. So they have to be careful about these words. Now, music is a language. Now, when I found all these things, I dec—not speaking all languages, so—I wondered—how could I talk to the world, to tell them things? So I took everything I learned, and I put it into music, and that's what it is. And some times people will say, well, they don't-—they don't understand. But then, it's not about understanding; it's about can they feel what I'm talking about. To understand it——well; it jumps over into a lot of different directions. So it doesn't do any good, 'cause you can interpret—uh—it any kind of way you want to. But if you-if they feel something, and they pure at heart, then they will understand what—'—they will feel what I'm saying, and they—well, they won't be part of the Kingdom of Death, like they are now. You see, they——like the hippies said, "God is dead." But- um—And Nietzche said that too. He said, ”Old man in.the forest does not know that God is dead,” so they ain't saying nothing new; he said it, [inaudible] ’’The old man in the forest does not know that God is dead.” So they didn't come up with nothing new, you know; they studied Nietzche [inaudible]. But see, I studied all these things, and uh-but you see, they should say, ”God is Death.” And not that God is dead, but God is death. In other words, that's what He is. So when people go out and they want to be like God, they went over into his I<ingdom—-of Death. Now I said that in Kansas City. Kansas City Star took my picture and put it up above the name of the newspaper and said, ‘Revolutionary, so to speak." Then took the-—they had two pages. Under one—uh-big picture of me they said something about infinity; that I'm dealing with infinity. And the first one they had, they said, ”Sun Ra says that God is death.” And didn't comment on it. And it's true: God is death. And it—uh—is written, well it happens, that when people have dreams or something, a vision of God, and they see him, they die. Coltrane saw God, and he died. And a friend connected with us, in Washington D.C., he told me one day, he saw God. He's dead. Now, I'm—I'm going by equations now, and I've heard other people say it: you see God, that's it. And he told me about the vision he had; I said, well, they say that man cannot see God and live, so now—maybe you should prepare to die. Because he said he saw God: he was buck naked, God was sitting on his throne, gold robe, and gold things all around shining, and he walked toward God; God said, ”Get back! 10; Stand back!" And he asked me what that means, I said, “well, it could mean that He rejected you; it could mean that He was trying to protect you, not to approach Him, ‘cause you'd die. But you're in trouble. The best thing is prepare to die.” And in three months, he was dead. Now, I'm dealing with——uh—equau’ons; I'm not dealing with what I think, because the big—I call it omniverse [knocking at door: 2 long, 3 short; door squeaks open ] it's impossible to know everything, but you can feel everything. Definitely. [phone rings, and someone answers ] You can feel the whole universe, and—and just—your feeling's quite vast. The mind can't do that. It just be one track. But the feelings can go on all tracks at the same time. Now when you're dealing with feeling, you can feel what is real for you. That's what'I'm doing; I'm. going by feeling. [Ta phone ] Hello? Unrecorded voice on phone: S: [To phone ] Yes yeah... yes... well, I tell you, this is a vast organization, and it touches up against the real ruler of the planet. We have to see—to talk to you to see—uh-— things and talk to other people who are connected, because this isn't just where this is-— this band was established like other bands, it was—uh—it was-—it was backed up by some people who were unselfish, and some people who felt that—uh—what I was trying to do in music was being hampered by commercial folks and other people, and who said it was too far out, and about twelve people got together, some musicians and others, and- one of them is a rabbi, he's a black hebrew, he's in Israel now——and they put up the money, and they established us a record company, Saturn, so that I would be heard regardless of commercial folks. They did that. So then the foundation of it was for to get this music out there to people, and they put these records out, they put the money in it; they didn't ask for no money; it's the most unselfish organization ever been on this planet. They didn't ask for no money. They said this music should be heard by people. So because this- Phone: [speaks for several seconds ] S: [To phone ] Well, we'll talk about it today, but you'll have to meet these people who are scattered in Israel, in Egypt, in Germany, in Japan, millions and millions of people are part of what I'm doing. Although in a sense they don't realize it, but they are. If they had a touch of what I'm talking about, they never would be happy. If a planet where you got destruction and death, something has touched them where they can see; this does not have to be. Now I never tried to—to reach them like—uh—sending newsletters—but they're asking me to——a lot of them are teenagers, sub-teenagers; and it's—-it's very vast, it's out beyond—-out beyond my control at this point. I'm just-—I'm a scholar, see; a scholar can be by themselves and have such a nice time, but in that case, it's not going to be like that, I have to be talking to people, but they will be changed, and everything they think is right, that will be nullified, and that's kind of hard: to come to a planet and nullify everything, but everything has to be nullified for them, or else they're going to die. Now, so that—that is very vast, and I'm listening to the voice of a Creator which-— um—-I've never seen, but He's been my guide, you know, to——to say what to say, what to do, and that makes—uh—it's a total mystery. It is a mystery to talk about A Mystery. And that's what the Creator is: A Mystery. Such a——such a big mystery until you cannot find Him in history; you find in mythology-. He-— Phone: [speaks for two seconds] S: Uh-huh, mine is—-my arrival date is that too, and- Phone: [speaks for eight seconds ] 8: Well, you called me up, I—I'm being interviewed right now, so you can call me later on. 11 Phone: [speaks for one second] S: Yes. About three o'clock, two o'clock, something like that. _ Phone: [speaks for two seconds ] ‘ 3: Oh yes, I don't go nowhere. I have to be in place. Phone: [speaks for two seconds] S: All right,:yeah, bye. [speaking to ].R. again] Yeah, it's a—-it's a case where this Being is saying, "Okay, now, I taught you—if you want to—if you want to do something, my people, you can do it. You got the thought there to do it. What are you going to do?” And that's where it is: "what are you going to do? Now, if you're dissatisfied with the world as it is, you have to find something better. Put the blueprint out there; I'll make it, according to what you do." And that's what this Creator's been waiting on: somebody come up with a blueprint for the nations of the world, where He can build, because He's a creator: He'll build. But the danger is, you have to become like God in a sense——a lot of people want to be like gods, but they don't—they haven't read all the different scriptures, and one of them says, the gods who do not create shall perish. So then a lot of people jumped over to the name of God, but they don't create nothing, and they die. So this-— you have to—you have do some-—every day, I create something, I—I have to create some—but I'm so far ahead on the creation, that they-—-I've been doing a whole lifetime, see. Some times I create seven things a day, or twenty things a day, some I write something, or else—uh—some-a song, or some poetry, or some more equations that are quite mysterious, but they're there; scientific [inaudible]. Now I was in Berkeley, right here in California, I felt that here, since it's supposed to be the city of sin, everything goes. But in the city of sin, they blocked me. Uh—um—it was perfect [inaudib1e]—people say it was perfect, and then San Francisco—-uh—at that—uh——University of California, in Berkeley, and I was supposed to be teaching there, and I had some of my cosmic things, and I had proof of it, and all the students was reading these books—that I didn't write-— and it was all done precisely, and then they said that I wasn't here; that I was in Egypt. And I wasn't in Egypt; I was right here. I got the papers to show that the students ‘ [inaudible]. I was right here, but then they-—uh——what I told them was, "You don't want me to tell your students what you might call philosophy. If you call yourself a university, you're supposed to expose your students to everything, pro and con, right and wrong. Otherwise they can go out into the world and they won't be prepared; something you might think is insignificant, might be the very thing they have to fight against, and you should prepare them. If you don't like what I'm saying, you should let them hear it so they can get their guard up and ﬁght against it—if they need to. But then if they can't hear what I'm saying, then they jump out there, and they'll be unprepared.” I said, "now you-—you don't have a right to call yourself to be a university, because a university covers everything, right and wrong.” I said, "Nature teaches you things; Nature's got some snakes out there, it's got some poisons out there, it's got everything. And if you—-if you—If I can't talk here in San Francisco, you going to have a problem in your schools," and so Ijust left. They didn't pay me, and- ]: When was this? S: Around 1970, or so. Other voice: '71. 3: They didn't--they didn't pay me in two, three months since I [inaudible]. They dropped me. But then I said, well, why'd they do that? Um—they wanted me to tell about the music; the music has somehing to do with the cosmos; that was what I was doing; I was tryingto get them prepared. [phone rings, someone answers: ”Saturn Research’ ] 14 Um—But thenI said, now, why did they do that? Well, I tell the students I—I'm dealing with equations. Now I have to decide-—uh, what—uh~—what uh—why is the black race in America in the condition they're in? [speaking to phone] Hello? Okay. She's here. . Okay. [back to ].R.) I wanted to find out why were uh- [side one of tape ends I --[inaudible] is shipped here, like there was no account whatsoever. And then I had to research on that. So I told the student, that-—uh—the reason that Black people are in America-—uh--Ethiopia financed that. Ethiopia instegated it. Ethiopia. I said, if I'm telling you the truth, if I'm telling you the truth that Ethiopia instigated the enslavement, and dehumanization of Black people in America today, if I'm telling you the truth, the Emperor of Ethiopia is going into house arrest, and will die there. [inaudible]. He went into house arrest; he died there. And I said, now—uh—you got a president—Nixon--Now he's not going to make it in the White House; he'll still be in politics; he's coming out of the White House. According‘ to my equations, his name is against him: his name is ”Ni)(’—that's negative. Now if you turn his name backwards, it's still negative: it's “No.” Now you got ”no” forward and backward, so he-—he can't escape; he's coming out of that White House. -Now: it happened. Now, eh——-about five years later, the university wanted-they wanted my—I recorded my lectures. Now, they want it, and I said no, well since you didn't recognize when I was there, they—uh—the lectures belong to me, you can't have it. You still owe me, also, for three months. Well that's the way it is in San Francisco: they really need what I'm talking about. But since they rejected it, what can I do? The world needs to know what I'm saying, and these universities need to know what I'm saying, but I've risen up above universities, say well, they're no good. Uh—-I had to report to the Creator, say the universities are not suitable, on this planet. They talk about universe, and then they—-they putting something down. That's not proper. ‘But I said so I'm just going to——one day, I'm going to establish my omnivers-ity. And in my omniversity, people can learn everything. And I'm going to do that. I'm going to establish my omniversity. Now you don't have an omniversity on the planet. “Universe” just means ”one thing," they have to deal with the oneness of things, so I have my equations that say the oneness of things deal with the past. Uhh—I can prove that by the statement of, ”Once upon a time.” It does not mean something’s going to happen, it does not mean anything's happening now, it has nothing to do with the future, nothing to do with present; once means the past. Now, so I'm dealing with that, I'm dealing with equations, I'm dealing with the cross they got up there, what they got ”II-IST” up there over there, and I'm dealing with that, what that means, and I'm dealing with—uhh-—further back, if they research, they'll find out they had ”YHS'l"' up there, and they had ”UHS'I'," they have to go in the Catholic Church over there, in the archives, and look and see: ”U,I-I,S,'l"’ spells "shh-us." Backwards is ”shut”: S,H,U,'I‘. That's the end of that. Now ”YHST” is an ancient Egyptian word, and—uh—it has no vowels, but it can be pronounced, and the way you pronounce it is: ”wise." Wise. But most people say—I ask people, how do you pronounce "YHST," and they say ”yest,” and all that, and some kind of way their mind never comes to pronounce it like it is: "wise." Now, the Book says, ”a tree to make one wise." And here you got a man hanging up on the cross: wise—on the tree, ah—then you've got over there where you got the ”UHST,” the man has become like one of us : UHST. Backwards, shut. Now over here, you've got this ”II-IST." That's ”is.” But you read it backwards, it's ”shit.” Now: so you got that shit 15, hanging up there, in that church. Now—uh—they have to say—well, I got the whole thing! Uh—it's "bullshit!" Now, the Creator—uh—this force——has put it out there, for people, and then they have to read, they got to go back and read words. Now, “bull” is a note-to this day the Catholic Church put the "bull” up there. That means a notice. And they put the papal bull up there. Right there. England is called—uh— "John Bull," and they put‘—'A-and a bull only means—that's where the word “bulletin” comes from. It only means-—uh-a notice. And so the Creator put the notice up there; the bull up there. But then you got that ”shit" backwards, so you got that "bullshit" up there, and all these peopleare following this bullshit that the Creator put up there. [Inaudible] He put up thereto see if they intelligent enough to see what this is. Now in some kind of way, they—uh-—I don't blame them for wanting me not to tell people that, because it's very bad—uh—It is bad that that Catholic Church would be—would someday be giving them wafers to-—um—put it on their tongue, and-—and this-—this wafer got shit on it. S,H,I,T ‘cause, ”lI-IS,” boom, put that shit on their tongue. Now that's very crude, you know, to say that, but of course, I've seen them, and it got it on that wafer: "S,I-I,I,T." Because the thing in the East, even in Japan, they read this way: (gestures right to left). The book: boom. This way. And in the West, this way: (gestures left to right). So you got a case where they-—they all should read this way or that way, and you got a case where in one—in the East: this way. In the West, this way. So then you got a case where it means one thing to the East and another thing to the West, because they do two things: that way, that way. And—and if something is good for the East, in the West it's bad. It's bad. And here you've got this confusion, like that. And it's like-—never—the East is East, and the West--never the twain shall meet. Well, they got to-—they got to get together and read the same way, you see. They got to have what you call—what I call the Omniversal language. Omniversal language: is music. And it happens to be——that it's jazz. They have to-—Now. Well, in-in—uh—-in Greek they spell jazz something like ”tzaz" or something, so you got, they call it different names, and this-—I got the whole answer about things—why you got AIDS and all like that—uh—it—it's——you tell them that, it's so simple, that they [inaudible] AIDS comes from the word ”said”. . . Tape ends here; end Part 2 16- CONVERSATION WITH WALTER MII..LER WALTER MILLER 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS ELITE CLUB: SAN FRANCISCO, FALL 1981 PH: We saw a film over in Oakland a couple months ago. A JOYFUL NOISE. They showed that over at Laney College and you were in it. We saw you. WM: I would like to see it. PH: You haven’t seen it yet? WM: No. . PH: You get a little feature at the end. WM: Somebody told me that, hey Sunny, you know these gentlemen. (Sun Ra takes a seat next to Walter Miller.) - SR: Of course. WM: A lot of trumpet players like to play loud. But‘I don’t like to play loud. It shows that youare unprofessional sometimes. You know, you’re playing real loud. Distorting. You can’t think and play hard. (Walter Miller then starts talking about Freddie Hubbard.) WM: He’s made a lot of money. , PH: He has made a lot of money. Some of his records haven’t been that interesting. WM: He’s really not my" trumpet player. But, you know, I'm glad to see anybody be successful. He’s not in the category like Dizzy or Miles. This set of giants. But he's a perfectionist at what he's doing. He plays legitimate, you know. He’s a hell of a trumpet player. All the way around. I don’t discredit him..He’s not my trumpet player. Not like Dizzy. I like Miles. I like what he's doing. It’s just not my thing. ‘WM: He (Sun Ra) is into a thing now about the space program. PH: Space Shuttle? WM: Yeah. This pushing the button at the White House. He’s into that now. It’s inter- esting. He’s into some cursing, too. Surprised me. JH: How’s your horn? Is this a good horn? You like it? WM: This horn here. This is a good axe. JH: You had that for a while? . WM: Yeah, this is an Olds. That's a very good horn. Feel it. See, it’s light. I like a light horn. This is a heavier horn. This is an inexpensive horn. This is a Roberts (?) you see, it’s a little heavier. But the key action in it is so hard. This one needs working on. See? Feel that. That's what I like. It’s fast. It needs some pads or something. But it don’t bother me too much. I can play it Without keeping a noise. That horn will kill you, man. That horn is hard. JH: How does a trumpet break in? -I don’t play trumpet. 17, WM: It takes about six months when you play it consistently. Now, the high notes on this horn up to G is very good. They’re very This one needs some work done on it see. Some of the slides don’t come out, You got corrosion. This slide is stuck, this slide is stuck, and this slide is stuck. Once you get it soaked and get all that corrosion out. I cleaned the barrels. That's why the barrels play so easy. JH: Any problems with tuning adjustments? WM: Not that one. This one. See, all these slides are stuck. I blow this one in tune. Because I'm used to it. It’s easier to handle. But that horn . . . all the slides . . . are loose on. this one. But it’s easy to get in tune. But it's so hard to play because the barrel action is so bad. You got to‘ push it all the way down to get a sound. This horn you don’t have to do it . just casually. (Fingers trumpet.) That horn . . . that's too much pressure. If you’re thinking and playing you get a lot of pressure on you. I’m going to get me a good horn. JH: What kind of horn would you like? WM: I'd like to have me a Martin Imperial. I've been to the pawnshops because they don’t make them no more. I was in Chicago trying to find one. They’re just hard to ﬁnd. The last one I had I borrowed from a friend of mine. And I blew holes in it. I loved that horn, man. WM: Sunny’s been kind of distant. He won’t tell me a lot oithings now. See, they went to Europe‘ this year and I didn’t go. I wasn't in shape at that time. I went to somebody and they helped . . . give me some counseling. Talked to me. You'd be surprised at the cosmic powers people have individually when you can put trust in their ability to do things. You can’t dispute a person when they say they can cure you without a doctor. Without medicine. That’-s strange. For a‘ minute there I had no ailment right after my counseling. But I'm going back to see this lady again. She’s awful nice. Metaphysical healing. . ' PH: This in Philadelphia’? WM: Yeah. WM: Sunny’s changing.He’s very changing. Hard to deal with now. Got a little money. Got some money in his pocket. Money changepeople. WM: I heard Dizzy playing Rock and Roll. He’d be playing some rock beats. Dizzy’s ' crazy. He'll do anything, anyway. You can’t discredit Diz. He’s the Boss. ‘Strange cat, man. He’s strange. First time I ever heard a trumpet player play like that man I want- ed to scream, “What’s he doing?” ‘ PH: When did you first hear him? ‘ p WM: I heard Dizzy whan Iwas about seventeen. I heard Sun Ra had bought some records . . . I used to go up to Sunny’s house, you know, and Sunny says, “Come on. I want you to hear this trumpet player.” And he played Blue and Boogie. Diz and Dexter Gordon. They was playing a little small blues thing and Dizzy was playing those high 18 note triplets. At first he’d play a little riff in his mute then take his mute out and then he’d play those high note triplets (sings phrase). Man, what is this cat. doingl? I never heard a trumpet player playing like that. I heard Roy Eldridge. Roy Eldgride was out there. He was doing some things . . . like Dizzy. I told Roy. I was over in Europe with Roy about five or six years ago and I told him, “man, when Dizzy come on the scene you was out there by yourself, as an innovator . . .” CONVERSATION WITH JOHN GILMORE I BERKELEY. CA“ FALL 1981 JOHN GILMORE 0 JOHN HINDS JH:. When did you start in the ﬁfties developing the harmonic thing? When did you start hearing that? ’ I JG: Sun Ra was always into it. JH: Would he encourage you? _ JG: Yeah. He was already into that type of thing. Quartertones, eighth tones. Stuff like that he'd teach us how to do it. JH: In American classical music, jazz, it seems like where I’ve heard that before was Illinois Jacquet and around the world Africans or Pygmies or aboriginies with their did- jareedoo . . . things like that. Using the harmonics. But you’re one of the cats. JG: I started in the Army a long time ago practicing that particular way. Developing harmonics a long time ago and it just developed’ by itself. over _the years. I started when I was in the service. The Air Force band. I started studying harmonics around about twenty years ago. So I've been after it a long time. Some things just come out . . . when I was in the Air Force there was a sargeant in there then . . . this dude played so damn high. He must have played at least six or seven octaves I mean natural. No overtones . . . natural. He was a bitch. That was the kind of cats I was hanging out within the Army. JH: That inﬂuence you a bit, to see this Guy? JG: Oh, yeah! This cat was playing all up there, Jim. I forget his name. I never will forget him, though. This dude was playing all up there like it was nothing. Long time ago. He was terrible. It inspired me to get into the type of study the high notes . . . the range of the horn. When I saw how much range he had I said, “damn!” I couldn’t believe it. Playing all up in the higher register like I it was the middle register of his horn. Fluid. Every interval ‘ JH: I wonder What happened to that guy? JG: I wonder. I really do wonder. JH: It’s coming through you.. You're well aware, more than I am, how it inﬂuenced a lot of people, Great inspiration to me. I'll say that humbly. JG; Appreciate it. I'm sure his first name was Joe. I don’t remember his last name. He was an Air Forcesargeant.’ I I 20 JH: Some of the earliest stuff Ihave with you is things that came out a few years age called Blowing Sessions with Johnny Griffin. JG: Clifford Jordan?-« -' I ' - JH: Yeah. It’s a double set. JG: Well, actually they took that from a Blue Noterecord and just put it on there. It’s a Blue Note record that me and ‘Clifford Jordan did with Horace Silver. It’s a whole record. They just took a couple tracks and put it on there. The original album is called Blowing In’ From Chicago. Art Blakey, Curley Russel, Horace Silver and me and Cliff. JH: And I got the thing you did ‘with McCoy Tyner. ‘ JG: Oh, yeah. I liked that. Frank Strozier is nice on that. He’s smokin’. JH: I’ve been trying to trace your evolution and there is a lot of recorded material but in a way there's only sovmuch. Each tune'will fill the crack a little bit more making clear . . . to try and ﬁgure out the lineage of the things you've done . . . try and study it. JG: You trying to learn. You got to study all the people. I studied a lot of cats when I was coming up. I had a whole lot of inﬂuences. . JH: Who are some of your early inﬂuences? JG: Prez, Dex, Coleman Hawkins, Sonny Rollins, Sonny Stitt . . . I listened to Stan Getz closely. Wardell Gray. All those cats. I listened to them intensely. JH: Clarinet was your first instrument. JG: That's why I was kind of late in picking up jazz because there wasn’t too much jazz playing. Everybody was playing the saxophone. I didn’t run into too much jazz on clarinet. I mostly read and played classical. Clifford Jordan and all those cats were already into blowing. Johrmy Grifﬁn and those cats were smokin’_ already. I came a lit- tle bit behind them after I came_ out of the service and I had learned to play tenor. I wasn’t really playing tenor in the service. Just mainly clarinet. JH: That was about . . . when would you say that is? JG: That was about ‘48' when I went in. Came ‘out about ‘$1. JH: Didn't youstart playingwith Sun Ra about ‘$3? J G: ‘Must of been something like .that. I had a short with Earl Hines first. I played with his big band. I was out on the road with him. JH: I've read some things where you talk about that period of meeting Sun Ra . . . I think it was the tune Saturn and discovering something you didn’t see right off the top. JG: Yeah, I couldn’t hear the beauty ofhis intervals. You know how stretched out they were.. He was writing .some stuff there. " l A S V JH: The harmonies throw you or were they pretty much natural at that point for you? J G: The intervals were unusual intervals to me. Very unusual. Take you to different parts of the horn you hadn’t been before. Sometimes I got some stuff that damn near bust your hands. Fingering wise. Because I’d never played no passages, no intervals like thatarranged in the sequences the way he arranged it. It might be the same inter- vals that you’re used to but the sequence that he uses them in makes the ﬁngering so damn hard. ‘ . _ H S ' _ - JH: And Marshall Allen in the last few years he's been exposing what figures to be some of his earliest inﬂuences which I didn’t hear so much through the sixties, the seventies. R21 That kind of Hodges slur. JG: Yeah. He loves Johnny Hodges. JH: You’ve got an Otto Link (mouthpiece). What is that? A seven or eight? JG: It’s about a nine ten. It’s the largest they have that you can buy. I used to blow an eleven. Wore out. I had it opened up to an eleven. I had it for many years. It just ﬁnally deteriorated and I had to buy a new one. I think this is the largest face that they have. . JH: You just got that recently? JG: No, I've had it a while, now. JH: What kind of reed are you using? . JG: Around about a three. . ' . 1 : . , .3 . . , V:. 2. ....,1.i$.5< aw.
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Notes: Quarterly. Began with: Issue 1 (June 1996)
Notes: ceased with: issue 5 (June 1997).
Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-qty
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1995-2001
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Prospectus: A journal about Sun Ra (1995-2001), accompanied by occasional un-numbered supplements.
Notes: A journal about Sun Ra (1995-2001), accompanied by occasional un-numbered supplements.
Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 01 (May, 1995)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1995-05-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: E N O E U S .b Sun lla conversation with Charles Blass, November 15, 1991, New York CHARLES BLASS: You've spoken in the past about the fact that the planet is under attack, and also that we're trapped by words. ls there an equation between those things? What can you say about that now? SIIN BA: Well, since then l’ve been in communication with some outer space people, too, and they said the same thing. And some people from Turkey, they said the same thing. They don't call it “attacking”, they call it “-exam”, “examination”. They figure out how it attacks every day, so there is an attack [?]. CB: Do you feel trapped by words? SR: Not really, I used to be maybe, not now. CB: You also mentioned that you have a “a childlike mind”. Would you care to elaborate on that? SB: Well, that’s innocence. You know, you just don't really know nothin’, you just feel things. That’s what I meant by that. A childlike mind doesn’t know really about wrong and things like that. lt’s alw...
Show moreE N O E U S .b Sun lla conversation with Charles Blass, November 15, 1991, New York CHARLES BLASS: You've spoken in the past about the fact that the planet is under attack, and also that we're trapped by words. ls there an equation between those things? What can you say about that now? SIIN BA: Well, since then l’ve been in communication with some outer space people, too, and they said the same thing. And some people from Turkey, they said the same thing. They don't call it “attacking”, they call it “-exam”, “examination”. They figure out how it attacks every day, so there is an attack [?]. CB: Do you feel trapped by words? SR: Not really, I used to be maybe, not now. CB: You also mentioned that you have a “a childlike mind”. Would you care to elaborate on that? SB: Well, that’s innocence. You know, you just don't really know nothin’, you just feel things. That’s what I meant by that. A childlike mind doesn’t know really about wrong and things like that. lt’s always [?] in things being right and necessary to be that way. That’s what I mean by that. lt (really) begins with teaming what the world’: really like. If they overcome that knowledge of the world, they got it made. lt’s kind of hard to throw things at society [?] that you know to be real even though it’s bad. But it can he done. lt’s an impossibility but it can be done. CB: To what extent are you free now? SB: My spirit is free. My spirit knows things that it didn't know before. It knows things that would frighten people even to think about. . CB: Are you still “coming in the back door?” SR: I’m walking in a labyrinth. You have to come out of the labyrinth, you know. CB: What do “shadow people” have to do with the labyrinth? Sll: Well, shadow people can disappear if they stand in the right kind of light. We have different kinds of lights, you see. We got some dark lights, we have chromatic lights — we got all kinds of lights. You’re walking in darkness in the labyrinth, but you can see colors. Bright, brilliant colors that lead the way. CB: Does “Love in outer space” happen when “l-‘ate is in a pleasant mood?” Sll: Space people say they have graduated beyond, risen above love, and passion. They don't deal with it. Because it's hard on Earth, well it's hard out there in space, too. You really have to have yourself together for that. lt’s so vast you see, a person could get lost and not know which way to turn. Most people on this planet are lost, it's a limited existence and they're lost here. They get out there, there’s no right no left, no right, no wrong, no up and no down. That’s outer space. So what do we have to go home to? Nothing. CB: So what then is “Love in Outer Space?” SB: Well it's really — you know, music's a language and it's telling people they have to become nothing in order to survive in the llingdom of Nothing. See, nothin’ can’t hurt nothin’, nothin’ plus nothin’ equal nothin’. So when they jump over into that, they got part of the solution. In fact they got the solution with that zero. Everything started from rero you see. You can’t go into outer space unless you count down to zero. You count down to zero, and then you can go in outer space. They do it, NASA does it every day, they count down first. So the countdown is what's the matter, not the count-up. CB: Now does that counting relate to your music and the rhythms in your music? SB: lt’s just like talkin’, you don't count out words. We express ' ourselves by what we got to say. Music has to be like that, too, but it's very ditﬁcult for musicians to do that. They have to be very ﬂuent, they have to just be natural. You can’t teach anybody that. Every nation got different ways of expressing them- selves, different sort of rhythms. And the same thing about a musician. In a particular society, he'll play the way that society is conditioned. CB: What questions would you ask Sun Ra it you were interviewing you? Sll: [silence] CB: Maybe you have an equation for the idea of questioning, the idea of knowledge? SB: [pause] I would say, “what am 1, how am l, why am I, and when, and where?” See there’s certain bounds that man is afraid to move beyond. At certain boundaries he jumps back. A fellow said every time he talks to me there’s a boundary that he can’t get past, he asked me why. I talked to him, I said, “Well, l’m not really supposed to talk to humans.” lie told me that he was brave enough to follow any path, and what was I talkin‘ ahout he would be afraid of? lies not afraid of anything ‘cause he did everything in life and he’s not ‘afraid of anything. llesaid he was even hold enough to meet God Himself face to face. So I said, “Well, I'm giving my equations, I’m trying to ﬁnd out how people were created, how it was done.” lle said, “How do you do that?” and I said, “You have to go hefore Creation to see how it was done.” So then he said I was frightening him. He said, “Oh, you’re frightening me. now." I said, “Well, you won't know how God created the world, you got to go hefore creation and then you can see how it was done.” Ilnd he got scared then, just from talking about it. But really I told him the truth. That’s the only way you can find out what to do, you got to go hefore Creation to find out what happened, what went wrong, and why it went wrong, and how to undo _ undo the knot. Sun Ra conversation with Charles Blass, llovemher 16, 1991, New York CIIABIJES BI.ASS: Is there any equation hetween this “space” music and jazz and blues? Is there a way that you connect those things or is it all just totally disconnected? Sllll BA: Well you see, the world is getting. ready to come into some truths that will annihilate everything they got. None of these things seem important now. Conna come into the real truth. The real truth is gettin’ ready to he revealed to people. CB: You once said men used to he more truthful. Does this have anything to do with what you’re talking ahout, the truth heing revealed?” SB: No, the truth they got is not a good truth. I’m talking about another kind of truth. I'm talking ahout constellations of stars and other things. I'm talking ahout other dimensions, realizing that there are other dimensions in the cosmos. CB: What human qualities do you share, with humans that is? SB: Well they don't know what's happening. So you can’t share anything with somebody that don’t know what's happening. They are totally unaware of their existence, what it is, who created them. They don't know ahout God, they don't know about the Creator, they don't know anything about Satan and Lucifer. They don't know anything, they're just here, you know.- CB: You've talked about the “energy corridor.” is that your preferred method of travel? SB: Actually, I really put the brakes on. I put the hrakes on about me travelling. CB: So you’re stationary at the moment, or what? : Well I move so much that I can’t tell people about, ‘cause! think it’sforhirlden. l’m-trying to figure it out. : llo you have a message for parents,regarding their children? : Well, you got a lost generation, lost parents, too. It's another story now. : Does that have anything to do with this forhidden knowledge that you have? : Yes. You see, they spelled a lot of words wrong, and they’re giving the wrong impression. CB: Which words are you talking about? SB: Well one word, ll-0-T. They spelled it wrong. Should he spelled ll-ll-0-'l'. Because people are always getting tied up in knots on the planet. Get tied up, that makes people sick, they get all tense hecause they’re all tied up. CB: Is that what happened to you? SB: No, I let it happen. CB: Why was that? SB: It’s experimental. CB: Is that word related to note, ll-0-T-E? SB: Yes. 'I'one, too, T-0-ll-E. CB: What relation would the music, these notes and tones, have to healing, or untangling and straightening out these knots? SB: Well I’m not looking for no following or nothing, so I have to stay low profile. CB: You're still playing the low profile? ’ SB: Yes. But when I put my hook out, it won't he no low proﬁle anymore. You see, it touches upon politics and religion; the whole thing, educational ‘system, everything; the human hody, the human spirit, the human mind. The whole thing could change . . . People are not sincere. So I can’t be part of this when they’re not sincere. Because they get trapped up in the labyrinth of words, there are forces at work out there that trap people. CB: Your words will free people rather than trap‘ them? SB: Up to a certain point, yes But I can't trust people, you know. I've helped a lot of people, and all of them betrayed me [?]. So 1 don't have nothiu’ to go. by as far-as people being sincere or trustworthy, I don't have nothing to go by. EB: What's the name of this hook going to he? SB: “llutobiogmphy”. “Coo-Autobiography”. CB: flare you had this particular book in mind for a long time, or is it a recent idea? SB: Well, I've been writing a long time, but I hesitated to put it out. ‘Cause it's the real truth you know. But the cosmic forces said man is not ready for this hook. They say you're not ready. They say man is too immature. CB: llnd. what did you say to that? What are you saying? SB: Well I tested ’em out: yes, they are too immature. CB: How does that immaturity relate to time or aging?” SB: They're on a treadmill right now. Time is not passin’ by, they passin’ by. GB: is there anything special about this day of the week being Saturday, Saturn-day? SB: There's something special about - this is the Sabbath day, this is the day of Saturn. CB: What's going on up in space at the moment with the planets and stars and their relation to this planet? SB: Well some space folks are trying to get people to have some conscience so they'll wake up. Some of ’em are up but I'm suresome of ’em are like God is, so you got a battle out in space now. Between two forces: one force want heaven [?], the other force say “No”. GB: Can you see this happening? How do you get this picture? SB: first place, l got some communication from outer space, and they said so, they said they're putting blocks in man's way. That's the reason we're here, they gave it to him but he got no place where it ain't no good [?]. They said religion failed on man, science failed, everything failed because he took it the wrong way. So they don't know what to do about it. Except let him standstill. They say he makes two steps forward and three backward all the time. BB: is there an equation that you have between.words- and. numbers? SB: The numbers and the words tell" a tale about everything, including Creation, and before Creation. I'm dealingwith things before Creation now. CB: is that “nothingness"? SB: Almost. it's another kind of notbingness. One of my songsis “llothiug ls’’. l man's mind might not be able to stand seeiugffreation. It's possible for him to go back and see what happened. flow it was done. But you might not be strong enough. CB: flow is it possible? SB: You see, man can move forward physically, and move backward physically, but he can do it spiritually, too, mentally — if he knew how. lie could go backward, and go forward in time. CB: low can man find out about" this? SB: Wellhe ought to be able to do it. You know he gets his chances, and the chances are very strict. ‘Cause he might go crazy, you know, and the space folks don't want that. They're afraid it man really saw the real truth he might go crazy or seem to. The world might seem crazy anyway. CB: Before I go, do you have any thoughts on what you're going to play in the next coming set, second set on a Saturday night? . Sll: I'm probably gonna play some Duke Ellington tunes, l’1u probably gonna play “S’Wonderful", I might play “Yesterdays”. I might play “Cocktails for Two”. Depends upon the effects I get on that instrument, I play according to the effects I get. December 4, 1985, Oakland, till I opened up the space age. See, nothing happens on this planet unless somebody from somewhere else allow and .give per- mission to man to do it. They can't do anything unless they get permission from the higher sources. Whatever they do. They can't die unless they get permission So it comes down to ifyou want to live, if they want a better world they got to have per- mission. Tltat's-'whyga..lot;ut:people canoe along.:,to;tr.y.-to helphuruanity tailed. Because they didn't have the authority. This isa-case. where you have to ehavesthesantbority»; to do anythingto help humanity. lt’s about one minute to midnight for this planet. So then I've been playing the low proﬁle because l’m not a minister or anything like that you see. And l’m not a politician and I don't believe in equality. llnd that makes me a little different. I don't believe in freedom either because I've never had any. I have to work for the Creator whether I want to or not and that’s discipline. l have to do like the Sun and the stars in the sky. They have to be right in place all the time. That's what I have to be. l don't know what people are talking about when they're talking about freedom. All superior beings have no freedom. They have to be obedient to the Creator. Talk about freedoms. Biggest lie I've been told because it can't be you see. No one is free down here. They never have been and, really, they never will be because if they was free they would not choose to die. But since they die they're not free. So l’m talking about discipline you see. That made it kind of difficult for me in particular in this country that's talking about freedom. But l’m talking about discipline. The first man to talk about freedom, Chrispus Attucks. The first was a black one. He got killed. Then Patrick Henry came and said, “Give me freedom or give me death." lle got both of them at the same time. So you don't talk about those things when you're dealing with a spiritual order. You have to be initiated. You have to go through a lot of disciplines and then you come before the Creator and then if you're pure in heart and you've really gotten your lessons you'll be alright. But you have to have discipline. You can't go to another sphere and talk about freedom. You won't be able to enter. You have to have discipline. In order for this planet to move forward they got to be inst as obedient to somebody walking around to somebody walking around in human ﬂesh as they are to death. They bow to that. And they never tell death, l’m not going to do that. They bow to that (death). So therefore, they have to recognize somebody who looks like them, who talks like them, in flesh and they have to be obedient. That's all it takes for this planet. lt’s got to be one person. It took one person. Through man ‘ death came into this world. Now if you get something else, that got to come through sombody in the form of man. Now l’m in the form of man, but l’m an angel you know because man has tried a long time to do things. lle couldn't do it. But you know an angel can do a lot of things. It was an angel that tempted Eve, you know. llnd therefore it has to be an angel who tempt people to get out of this. I don't like the way the planet is set up. lts wrong. lt’s not right. I don't like their righteousness. I don't like their wickedness. ldon't like nothing about them you see. l’m in human form but I know this is not right for man. And I refuse to accept it. So since l’m in human form you can just prepare to change because you have to. If you're not accepting of me you can't possibly be acceptable to God or the Devil. So man will have to show me that he's worth something. l've been saying he's not worth two cents and a half. But a man in Philadelphia says he's not worth two dead ﬂies. That is the judgement of man concerning other men saying they’re not worth two dead ﬂies, well of course I know they can be worth something, they can be priceless, really. Because it's in them to do somethings worthwhile, but unfortunately nobody on this planet had the right to do right. They could just do wrong. If they want to do something right, they get their heads chopped off and they go to jail or something. So you see there's a law that they shouldn't do right. That's because when the creator wanted them to do right they wouldn't do right. So the creator made a law that if he caught them doing right they would be in trouble. So, you see, all these men that came along talking about a better day for the black people, they got wasted because they didn't have the right to do right. You have to have somebody with authority to do right or wrong if it comes to saving people. The creator does not care anything about right or wrong at this point. If he wants the planet to survive a person can break the law. Even his law to do it. That's how much he cares about people. If you have to break the law, you break it. You break the law of death. You break the law of everything to save people. That is the way it's going to be. That is the way it has to be. I brought in the space age and now I brought in the omni age and black folks haven't even awaken to the space age yet. l can't be waiting on them you know. The omni age is here now and everywhere you look you see the word omni. The omni age means that they can get immortality now. The Creator is opening up the whole thing. Not just a universe but an omniverse. That means his eternal kingdom where they have to approach him as an emperor and not like something insignificant as a king. You can't call the Creator a king because you got a lot of kings you know. But you don't have but one emperor and that's the Creator. flow it these people would approach him in a governmental way because he's the ruler of the omniverse and you don't approach him religiously you've got to approach him as citizens of the omniverse because you are citizens. But if you don't realize that you are citizens of this great omniverse the Creator get no rights you know. You don't get none because you got to realize what you are, and what are you? You are citizens of the spirit world of the Creator and your spirit will have to take precedent and you follow the voice of your spirit instead of your mind because your mind has been contaminated. It's been programmed and you really can't get it together that way. The computers got you beat on that so you can forget it. So, you know, since the computers have taken over to do things, there's no place for man as far as his brain is concerned. So what does he have that the computer don’t have. lle’s got his spirit. So then he'll have to use that now because the creator has got it ﬁxed where you don’t need no brain. You just push a button on your computer and that eliminates man as being needed. lle’s not needed anymore. He's not needed in sex either. But he don’t know that yet. The Creator is putting so much on man to make man see you can’t make it without the Creator. And he would have to see it. With all these diseases and everything. . . mans main pleasure is sex, so he's making that kind of hard for him. He's going to keep on making things had for man until one day man will stop and say I can’! make it without the Creator. That’s all he's waiting on. lle’s waiting on man to say I can't make it. Sun Ra conversation with Peter Hinds, lune 2, 1986 PETER llllllls: I saw lloy Innis on television the other day and he was talking to a group of black people saying that what black people need is discipline. Sllll llll: They’re always stealing my stuff you know. They don’t have none. And I have demonstrated it and I've got things to prove it all through the years. I've been at my job. I've been at my job creating. What black people need is a creator. All men are endowed by their creator. They don’t have no creator. They’re just like some clay out there who needs someone to mold them into shape. That’s the state they're in right now. So, I can do it but as to whether black people can stand still long enough to listen to someone speak discipline instead of freedom and the time is almost. . . you might say the word dead- line. Man don’t have control of this planet any longer. lt’s been taken out of man's hands. He got it over into the hands of somebody else. That might be ruthless God or the Devil, Satan. One of them has got it. llnd man will have to straighten up and realize and move accordingly. llnd I'm sure man has lost control all these things that have been thrown on him, these technical things. Man can’t control it. Why, you got some twelve year old teenager that can use a computer. They got to have somebody, a grown person that can give respect to these teenagers, these sub teenagers. They’re wild, but in Chicago I had a lot of them around me at the University of Illinois. The man almost had to put the lights out on them. They was listening to me. After the performance they was right there listening to me talk. They couldn't get enough of what I was saying. They was all white, you know. The point of it comes down to it doesn't matter what color they are now. They have the capability of doing something about this planet. lt’s down to that particular point. So the people who have been doing this on the color or religion or this and that they can forget that. lt’s not like that anymore. Because if anybody can save this planet . . . don’t care what they are communists or whatsoever. The men on this planet must recognize that and forget this other stuff. Beggars can’t be choosers. So it you got anybody or any nation that has got something worthwhile to offer the world . . . This is the time that the world has to step back and let them have it. These forces are telling me that, yes, I’m the only one who can do it and I’m saying well why not some of these preachers or some of these other people. These politicians. They said no. They’re not acceptable. Pll: You're much more sincere. There's no question of that. SR: That’s what they said. They said l’m sincere. That I wouldn't get involved in something for ulterior motives and this planet needs sincerity. It’s simple. Sincerity will do the trick. O I I 0 I 0 o‘u.o.o 0 0. 4 S S E u S S I M U D I V I D N I S D N I H R In T E D: Y B D In T I D E S S I-._ R D: I N M 0 Y B 5 9 9 .1 T H G I B Y P 0 C S T N E T N 0 C 0£0f6 V9 '3Vll!l'l'IlW 98L X08 '0?! HINIVEISHH WI Nﬂs 5 . 7, 5;: 5‘ ii . E »]UNGER« des angeblich auﬂerirdischen Iazz-Gurus, das »Arkestra«, zeigte sich K ebenso kreativ wie diszipliniert. ' ‘a
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-01
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 02 (July, 1995)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1995-07-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: ISSUE TWO % H LY, IU 8.5m .58. Interview of Sun Ra by Jennifer Rycenga, November 2, 1988, San Francisco, California. Part 1 Also present (and occasionally interjecting) were Dan Plonsey, Peter Hinds, John Hinds, and Arkestra drummer Earl ”Buster” Smith. This interview was conducted by Rycenga as part of her Ph.D. dissertation research in the field of religious studies and music. The interview was supposed to last no more than 30 minutes, but Sun Ra showed no signs of wanting to stop until he was finally called (repeatedly) to the waiting bus 2.5 hours later. What follows is the first portion of the interview, as transcribed by Plonsey (me). I am indebted to Peter Hinds for agreeing to supply a copy of his video tape which covers the portion of the interview after Rycenga’s cassette ran out. — Dan Plonsey, April 8, 1995, El Cerrito California Sun Ra: I think of myself as a complete mystery. To myself. Jennifer Rycenga: And you do what has to be—— S: No I probably do what I'm con...
Show moreISSUE TWO % H LY, IU 8.5m .58. Interview of Sun Ra by Jennifer Rycenga, November 2, 1988, San Francisco, California. Part 1 Also present (and occasionally interjecting) were Dan Plonsey, Peter Hinds, John Hinds, and Arkestra drummer Earl ”Buster” Smith. This interview was conducted by Rycenga as part of her Ph.D. dissertation research in the field of religious studies and music. The interview was supposed to last no more than 30 minutes, but Sun Ra showed no signs of wanting to stop until he was finally called (repeatedly) to the waiting bus 2.5 hours later. What follows is the first portion of the interview, as transcribed by Plonsey (me). I am indebted to Peter Hinds for agreeing to supply a copy of his video tape which covers the portion of the interview after Rycenga’s cassette ran out. — Dan Plonsey, April 8, 1995, El Cerrito California Sun Ra: I think of myself as a complete mystery. To myself. Jennifer Rycenga: And you do what has to be—— S: No I probably do what I'm controlled to do. Something—uh— J: —Who's doing the controlling? « S: —--made all this——some Impossibility without a name. That's what the world is controlled by: an Impossibility. It's controlled by someone they call "God” who never had a beginning and naturally had no end. And in a sense He doesn't exist, because of the standards of reality, because everybody knows—something can't just happen —but if there is a God, that's what happened; just happened to be, and without ever having not been—they got to face that. Um—-so you go over into what you might call a myth. A myth to Himself. Has to be, ‘cause something happened. And something happened where a beings just happened to be-and then—-in that case, He would be all alone- nobody else. Just Him. And in that case, He would cause something else to be. Out of nowhere. Named the ”people.” And then He's been trying to find out if there's anybody else—in the vast universe. And then He would take these people and they'd help him look —something else: another God, another being who just happened to be. It would have to be like that: it's beyond reality. But He'd be all alone; He'd make people, the people'd [inaudible], if they could reach a stage of doing the same thing He did: just happpen to be. And of course it's scattered all around. The Bible does say that man became a living soul. So that means he wasn't created: he just happened—just happened to be. But they don't never read the book, ‘cause they think the Bible is just fairy tales, myths, and all that. But it doesn't make any difference to this creator, He could take a myth and make a reality—whatever they said. [inaudible , sounds like: ”He solved it, washed it”] And make it happen. And they got the book that tells me that. They got somebody called Jesus said every jot and tittle of the book would happen. That means that people are living a——a predestined thing: they going by the book. And the book: got what seem to be a lot of contradictions in it. So then you got a contradictory planet. You got a contradictory people, because they going by the book. And that the book is verified and put in the right order—see, it's like a jigsaw puzzle, if it was put in the right order, overnight people would change, to go by the book. But nobody's been able to put the book in order—like a jigsaw puzzle. And then if you put the book—-if you take the jigsaw puzzle and put it together and it's backwards, you still won't see the picture. Now, that's what's happened: a lot people put something together, but they never turned it over and looked at the other side. And they got to look at the other side——of the jigsaw puzzle. Some people did very good putting some things together, but they never turned it over; they didn't invert it. Now they have to face facts: according to the Bible, it said the disciples turned the world upside down. Now I did see that, but for some reason, I never heard anybody quote that passage. It does say it. They turned the world upside down. Now they turned the world upside down, they inverted values. Now they all were ignorant men; they didn't know what they were doing, but they were told that they were going to be made fishers of men. Took the fishermen, and only fishermen, seeming1y—they follow, they know nothing-—uh—but they saw what he was doing, and then he told them all, ”I will make you fishers of men.” Now when you fish, you go out there, and use some bait, and use some nets, and you—uh—catch some fish. Catch a whole load of fish. And that's what happened with people. They're like the fish in the sea, you see. And the fish seem to be very free on the ocean, but then somebody comes along with a net, catches some fish, and the symbol for the net is ”X.” Because if you take ten and you turn it backwards it's net. So this ”X” is used to catch people. And you got churches all over the world, over there, jumping over into the ”X." They jump into the net that somebody's fishing. Now, the disciples, they didn't know, they didn't know what they were doing. And they were chosen for that purpose: not to know what they were doing. But to put something out there in the world that would serve as a net to catch some people. Put them all there—-just lump ‘em all together in the net—and that's what's happening. So you've got a lot of folks over in the net. But the net is—uh— Christ—is ”X," and ”X” means a lot of things: it means ”unknown.” J: Um-hm. S: ”X” means ”unknown,” but "X” means Christ; you can prove it by the word ”Christmas.” I'm dealing with equations, you see, and I got—uh——well, I went to school on this planet, and I ran off from Alabama—a—.a discriminating state, supposedly the worst in America, after Reverend King went down there--but there was some folks that sent him down there because the South is still an empire. It's not part of the United States really. And it never did give up, because they still got the Confederate flag. Now— and they still got that ﬂag up—so when a nation is defeated, they take their ﬂag down. Confederate ﬂag is still the ﬂag of Alabama, so Alabama's the center and the capital of the Confederacy. And Reverend King, probably he didn't realize -’-something was—can't even control, he went there to try to break it—uh——in Alabama, but the symbol for the flag in Alabama is ”X." So you got the, you got the ﬂag with the ”X” on it, you got the stars on there, and the South is still a separate part from the United States. And they think differently. And—uh—this empire, the empire of the South, now they—they were so—they had so much power to—they were hurting the North—uh—financially, because they had people working free for them, and the-North had to pay people, and so therefore they were running rings around the North, their businessmen. And that's what happened. That's when they had the war, because they wanted to break the power of the South, who had—uh—more like an aristocracy throughout their society. I: Sure. S: Which you can see it in Gone with the Wind what they had. Mansions. They had money, money money. Uh—and England, the rest of the world would deal with the South for their cotton. And they didn't really have an allegiance as far as this government is concerned, and so the war was fought not to free black people; it was with a blueprint to make a better world; with all their intelligence, they can't do it, and they got some remarkable brain people, philosophers, but they be talking against the world, but they never brought a blueprint. The Creator [inaudible] ”You want a better world, put the blueprint down, I'll make it for you.” You have to have the blueprint. But they never—Some people say, ”well, all the bad people; they going to hell; it will be a better world.” But this Creator doesn't—is not like that. He don't care nothing about righteousness, and that's where people make a mistake. A person that troubles to do the righteous thing; they in trouble. Because he doesn't understand that. Uhh—He doesn't understand righteousness. He be trying them out to see what makes them righteous, and the next thing you know, they be dead because they can't—they can't prove that they righteous; because they—they'd be saying things, and this Creator, when—when He says something, well, that's it; He'll do it all right; but when people say things, they—when they're put on the test, they deviate. ’ J: You said music is a kind of talking to the Creator. S: Oh, it's the only way possible. Music is a—it's a faster vibration than talking, you see. It moves fast. And it—-it has more power than the voice. It—(aside to Buster(?)) Buster, what are you going to do now? Buster(?): I—I'm going; I gotta go get some juice and some medicine. S: Look under the bus? Look under the bus. B: I'm going to look under. . . S: Okay. B: Yeah, ‘cause all the bags are underneath. S: Right, that's the first mistake. B: There's an envelope in that bag. S: Okay. Yes. B: Okay? S: So, now it comes down to—uh—to tell the world, well, they don't really have no proof there's a God. That's what the problem is. First they have to have equational proof that there is a God, or something that could take that name. Not that it's God, that—if you go all the way back to ancient Egypt—that the Sun priest is—uh—they would teach the Sun medicine in Egypt——uhh—that's not being taught today, because they had civilization for five thousand years; America's just four hundred years old, and it's shakin' and quiverin'—they had a civilization—the oldest known civilization: ancient Egypt: five thousand years of precise, orderly government. Now: where were they—how—how were they stabilized like that? So the world got to go back and see: what were they doing? What were they doing to have five thousand years of precise government, education; and the whole world, it revolves around Egypt, really, although they talk about it, but- uh—without Egypt, you wouldn't have no alphabets, you wouldn't have anything. You wouldn't have no religion either, because they were the ones talking about immortality. They were—the rest of religions were not talking about people being—uh-—again, they had that idea, that it could happen, uhh—and they set up pyramids and everything, they buried the dead 1ike—-uhh—with the idea that they would come back. And they—and— and then—it's all sym-——everything is symbolic; nothing is real. Something placed it all here, waiting for—uh—people to wake up. Waiting for them to wake up and do something. But they haven't. They have to do it themselves; It's not going to help them. So It gives them atomic bomb; see what they going to do. It's like a person goes out and buys some toys for her children, and that's what the Creator——He give them some toys. In Belgium, every time I go there—-it's the only country that I—that's doing this, women be there from all over the world; they don't get no publicity, and they be marching down the street—-thousands of them—and they be singing, ”Take the toys from the boys.” Now, that doesn't get in America. I—I haven't seen any pictures of them doing that, and they do it quite often; maybe every month, and they be marching, all the women, from different countries together, shouting, ”Take the toys from the boys." And they talking about them guns that the military got. So they never get any publicity, but I've seen it quite often. Now, so it comes down to these toys they got. Somebody making the toys——uh—obso1ete, because you don't—don't need guns to kill people anymore; a thimbleful of—um—of this new—this gas that they got could waste half of San Francisco, all of it. That's a lot of power—that's powerful. So then they're-— they don't need—uh--if America was attacked, a thimbleful of—uh—[inaudible] this new stuff they got, could decimate practically every city in America; they got no protection. None whatsoever. But they could get ready. They could—-uh—do what- uh—Buckminster Fuller said and make them some domes. That would—that would protect them. They could be up under these domes, these geodesic domes. But of course they're still making their square houses and things. They wou1dn't——they wouldn't listen to him, and he said, ”America's a spaceship.” I say so too. Now, they—uh— intelligent, but——uh—dumb at the same time. Now they come to the place where they got to prove: there is a God, or there isn't. And if there is no God; they have to be God, so you still got a God. You can't—you got to have a head. You can't have a body without a head. And—they do say Christ is the head of the church. But the head is—uh—nailed on the cross, right; nailed down. So now, that's an equation. They got to deal with equations, but they got to know now, people all over the planet got to know--uh—they got to know about a God. Uhh——and they have to have some kind of proof. You got to have some proof there is a God. And Igot the proof: everything bad happened on this planet is caused by God. So there's your proof: you got little children that's starving: that's the work of God. You got tornadoes and typhoons, and you got, um—that's the work of God. So he demonstrates He does exist through evil, not good. So with all these evils upon the planet, uh——they got the book that said, got Christ saying, who's supposedly the word of God, and the word of God is walking, and saying, ”I work and my father works." And the word of God is saying, ”The works of the world are evil.” So Christ did some evil thing. As a lot of books of the bible said, ”In the kingdom of Christ there shall be evil and fill up the days”; I'm dealing with equations—uh—I'm a cosmo- scientist. ”In the—in the kingdom of Christ there shall be evil and fill the days.” And this is the kingdom of Christ because Christ in numerology is number five, and in Washington D.C. it's all based around number five: the pentagon. So I'm—I'm dealing with—uh—-equations that seeming1y—uh--people don't know. I went to Washington, and I was walking by the Potomac, and—um—-then all at once this picture came into my mind, saying—-uh—you know, in the United States, every state touches three or four states that surround it. Washington D.C. is called a district, and it—it doesn't—it only touches—uh—two states. And it said—this—the capital of the United States was moved from Philadelphia, to New York, and to Washington D.C. The purpose was establishing a spiritual kingdom. So now [clears throat] so they took [clears throat] Virginia and Maryland; they took Washington D.C. and put it in the midst of Virginia and Maryland for a spiritual purpose——uh—they put the pentagon—they still there—uh—and then Virginia means ”land of the virgin.” Like California means ”land of the caliph.” Louisiana: ”land of Louis.” Georgia: ”land of Georgia.” So that ”ia” on there means ”land.” So when they say Virginia, that's ”virgin.” Now when they say Maryland, that's the ”land of Mary,” so then——uh—Washington D.C. is in the midst of Virgin Mary. Now, they put it there, and then you got the pentagon, and penta is Christ's number, so you got Christ in the midst of Virgin Mary, still unborn. Well, enclosed in there. Now you got that; now where did that come——who set that up? Man didn't; the whole thing is set up, and then they went and based it on liberty—uh—and the book is very dangerous——they based it on liberty, and men will look for liberty, but every time people talk about liberty, a lot of them die. All over the planet, you got different ones of people talking about liberty, and they getting killed, too. You've got it in Palestine, you've got it in Salvador, you've got everyehere where people are fighting for liberty, they die. Even to—like in one country down in South America, they—the people—they got the people, all sorts of people, put 'em—they was talking about liberty and freedom—-put ‘em in a stadium; shot ‘em. —Uh—in Mexico, before they had the Olympics there, some students were—um—talking about freedom of government and everything, and they came, and the soldiers came, and—uh——took them: they disappeared. Mexico—and then they came, and they came shooting. You go down there now, I played in a place where this happened, and you go there, and you can see the holes in the buildings, they died too. And Reverend Jim Jones, he took the people that looking for freedom down there- uh—and—and—and they died; they had the [inaudible] and every one of them died. And Moses come from Egypt and brought the people out of Egypt to—um——for freedom—into the wilderness, and—and forty years, in the wilderness, two generations: they died. And Moses died too, and was told, "You have not come into the promised land.” He supposedly was from God-—um—but he didn't make it, and—and it was so you know, that—uh-—well, you just have to—it's off in all the different books, and it's hard for a scholar to read all the books, but I've been directed to read books in a—in—and to get the books that tell the truth. Now you got a book called, Collision of the Worlds. And it sent—they send their books to me, and this day, I said, ”Well, I—-why should I read that?" I thought it was fiction or something. I still don't know fully what the book is saying, but it stayed around the house for five years; I never read that book. But this force——one day I woke up, and that book was on my pillow. I said, ”How'd this book get here?" Well, I—I reckoned I was supposed to read it, so I took the book, I was turning the pages, and down—up and saw a commentary: it had in fine letters, that——uh—Pharoah told Moses——uh—”Watch out going out into that desert, where you're going, because you're going to meet the bloody star, Ra. You're going to meet. If you go out there into that desert, you're going to meet the bloody star, Ra.” Now, that—and it didn't say any more—wel1 now got that too, you can get the book, uh—so then there's a book called Rott1eson's(???) Ancient History. And this book says, the oldest name known for God is ”Ra,” and the Cushite(???) equivalent of ”El,” which is another name for God, ”El”—it means—-uh—it means God, and then ”Ra" is over there with—uh—-something else. And that's what the Egyptians had: they were worshipping Ra, and they were a great kingdom—uh—they had everything, you see. But then some folks, and the Sun priestess—well, they——that temple was started in Heliopolis-—it's still there—you do not have one stone left of the temples that they had; somebody came along and destroyed that—you got one——one particular stone sitting up there. Now in the rest of the religions, like you got Stonehenge and every, they've got—you've got that-—you can— but somebody tried to destroy completely and semblance of evidence of the temple of the Sun priest in Egypt. Now: why'd they do that? You go there, you don't even know anything been there; you don't see one stone. But you go down in Memphis, now they had down there-—uh—you see a statue of Ramses there, and some ruins of the temple, but in Heliopolis, the place where all this came from, about Sun priests, and somebody tried to obliterate that off the face of the Earth. Now—So then you got to-—All the schools on this planet have to close. All the chuches have to shut their doors. All the governments got to turn their thing over to this force which can lead the planet properly; they have to do it, or die. Now that's my message. They have to do, as told. And they have to list one person in human form to show that they have become capable of recognizing somebody in human form, as their leader, who has intelligence enough, and the authority, to get this planet out of trouble. Now if they can't do that, if they can't recognize one person in human form, the Creator's not going to recognize any of them. Well, is He going by what—if they recognize one person in human form, without regards to color, or religion, as their leader—uh—to lead them, yes, and be obedient, yes, because they got a story saying that Adam and Eve—the first man and woman, supposedly—were not obedient. Now—and all this is caused by two disobedient people——now, it doesn't matter whether it's true or not; they say it is, and this particular God, whatever you say, He uses like a—uh—musician that's got a composition improvises, He improvises on what you said; and He can take it and make it the truth. So then you got where the world's in trouble [phone rings] throughout because supposedly——uh—-one woman and one man who disobeyed the voice of God, because it does say in the book that Adam and Eve heard the voice of God walking in the garden. They don't say they heard—it says ' they heard the voice; now have you ever seen a voice walking? They say they heard the voice walking. Now: the people got to deal with that, but they haven't dealt with that. Telephone Rings. . . End Part 1 Fri.,AIDI’- 30, 19.71 ‘$713’ 51:1: Irancim Chronicle 47 ' on Tawnlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll. Sun Ra--A Man For the Space Age i mmmmmmmlmry John L. wﬂsserlllﬂﬂ UN RA LED his Astro Infinity Arkestra in a sen- sational appearance a week ago at the University ' of California Jazz Festival. That’s not as simple as it sounds. Nothing done by Ra, a legendary and mystic fig- ure in jazz, is very simple. Being a sideman in the Astra Infinity Arkestra is not like being a sideman with Stan Kenton. The latter involves being a very good professional musician. Being a sideman with Ra may — as with his current baritone saxophonist — involve a two-year apprenticeship during which one never once plays in public performance. lt’s all a matter of vibes, you see, but the explanation is even complicated. This birth thing is vew bad Ask Sun Ra his age and he will say he has no _ age . . . “The space age, the intergalactic age is my age.” He is a rounded man, probably between 50 and 60 years of age, with a soft, gentle yet unyielding manner. He speaks at lehgth, but says he finds words abhorrent. He is American by birth, he will admit that much. And speaking of “birth”: ‘‘I arrived on the planet in the United States." he began, “in the southern part. But actually, this birth thing is very bad for people. The word should be abolished. Supreme Beings have trapped humans with words and one of the words is birth. You see, birth is also spelled berth, which means abed, and when they bury a person that’s their berth because they’re placed in a berth. so the day they’re dead becomes their berthday. Birthday also has the pho- netic word for earth in it -- erth —— so you could also say be-earth day. “This planet is third from the sun, it’s number three, and you take the word three and spell it pho- netically, which is thre — and you permutate it, turn it backwards —— and you’ve got erth, and that’s where the name came from.” UN RA LIVES in Philadelphia —- “It is wherel stay. I had to go there because that’s where America started." He will be here through June while he teaches at the University of Californiain the B.lack Studies Department. He is teaching “Ex- tension in Mort.ality.”' At 9 o’clock tonight and to morrow night. he will make a rare San Francisco appearance with his arkestra, at the Harding Thea— ter, 616 Divisadero street. “l’ve been playing piano ever since I was 50- I called seven-years-old,” he continued. “There was no particular music in my family — except thatldid hear that my so-called great-grandfather played vio- lin —— but I grew up right next door to the masters, they stayed in a house two-three doors away, people like Bessie Smith and Ida Cox. And my relatives al- ways took me to see the best artists in the black race.” ' V If Sun Ra’s personal life is obscure, his profes- sional life is unconventional. He has played in New York’s Central Park with a 100-piece’ band (“and ev- ery, musician in New York who wasn’t playing was listening” ), and recorded about 40 albums .-— virtual- ly none of them with anything resembling a (so- called) major label. The recent ones aretobtainable from El,Saturn Research, P.O. Box 7124, Chicago, Ill., 60607, and at his performances. Downbeat Maga- zine reviewed “My Brother the Wind” and eschewed its regular one-to-five star rating system by saying that Ra’s music simply couldn’t be compared with that ofconventional jazz men. ‘k * * HIS PROGRAM is no less than an opera on the progression of man from animal to cosmic, with brass, reeds, a huge percussion section, singers, danc- ers and himself on various electric keyboards and what he calls a “mini-Moog synthesizer.” He has children, sort of. “In a sense, the whole world are my children my brothers.” But no white musicians in his hand. ‘‘It’s because of‘ the vibrations thing. . . a lot of black musicians can’t make it with me, either. White musicians are brought up on freedom, black musi- cians have had no freedom, the vibrations are differ- ent. And since black people have nothing of value on the planet, I'm trying to give them something so they will realize that the _.Creator hasn't forgotten them. I’m presenting them with an advanced form of music, which is the type of music they would ‘be playing if they hadn't run into so-called slavery. “But those locked into a time zone the ’30s, the ’40s, the ’50s — can't play with me because we step into timelessness. lt’s cosmic chaos because all different times are going but it’s not really chaos when you feel what’s happening. Sometimes I might have a 5/ 4 against a 7/4 against a. 3/4 in one measure. It looks like a computer thing on paper.” ‘k ‘k ‘k HE HARDING c on certs will probably last around three hours. In New York. Ra’s concerts have gone up to six hours without intermission. “They’re used to it there,” he explained. “It's a mat» ter of endurance, infinity and projection." As he got to his feet to leave, I noticed his im- mense. muscular hands and wrists. He smiled a’ final time. ‘‘I need them.” he said softly. ‘‘It takes a lot of power to pia.,\' lightning and thunder." CDNTENTS COPYIIIGIIT© 1995 BY DMNI PIIESS. EDITED BY PETER IIIIIDS. INDIVIDUAL ISSUES $4.00 0£0V6 Y3 '1-lVllﬂ'l'llH 981 X081 '03 H3!lV3S':lH VII NIIS
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-02
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 03 (September, 1995)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1995-09-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: SEPTEMBER, 1995 ISSUE TH REE Left to Right——EDDIE WILLIAMS, Tenor, FRANK DERRICK, Alto; JOHN GILMORE, Tenor; RONALD‘WILSON, Baritone. Center—WILLIE RANDALL, Alto Interview of Sun Ra by Jennifer Rycenga, November 2, 1988, San Francis_co, California. Part 2 Also present (and occasionally interjecting) were Dan Plonsey, Peter Hinds, Iohn Hinds, and Arkestra drummer Earl ”Buster” Smith. This interview was conducted by Rycenga as part of her Ph.D. dissertation research in the field of religious studies and music. The interview was supposed to last no more than 30 minutes, but Sun Ra showed no signs of wanting to stop until he was finally called (repeatedly) to the waiting bus 2.5 hours later. What follows is the second portion of the interview, as transcribed by Plonsey (me). I am indebted to Peter Hinds for agreeing to supply a copy of his video tape which covers the portion of the interview after Rycenga’s cassette ran out. — Dan Plonsey, April 8, 1995, El Cerrito California Telephone ...
Show moreSEPTEMBER, 1995 ISSUE TH REE Left to Right——EDDIE WILLIAMS, Tenor, FRANK DERRICK, Alto; JOHN GILMORE, Tenor; RONALD‘WILSON, Baritone. Center—WILLIE RANDALL, Alto Interview of Sun Ra by Jennifer Rycenga, November 2, 1988, San Francis_co, California. Part 2 Also present (and occasionally interjecting) were Dan Plonsey, Peter Hinds, Iohn Hinds, and Arkestra drummer Earl ”Buster” Smith. This interview was conducted by Rycenga as part of her Ph.D. dissertation research in the field of religious studies and music. The interview was supposed to last no more than 30 minutes, but Sun Ra showed no signs of wanting to stop until he was finally called (repeatedly) to the waiting bus 2.5 hours later. What follows is the second portion of the interview, as transcribed by Plonsey (me). I am indebted to Peter Hinds for agreeing to supply a copy of his video tape which covers the portion of the interview after Rycenga’s cassette ran out. — Dan Plonsey, April 8, 1995, El Cerrito California Telephone Rings. . . Sun Ra: [To telephone] Hello? Hello? Yes. . .[tells someone the band's schedule , arranges for them to call back later] Now what was I saying? Jennifer Rycenga: Um—what do you—Tell me something about discipline, about how you see that. ' S: Well it's written. See, I have to go by the book. The—the only way to make [inaudible]. You have to have something to work by. I'm going by what they say is the word of God. Like I said, they heard the voice walking——of God. Now with all these scholars and everything, none of them has said, ”How can you have—you know—just a voice, walking? Now I've never seen a voice walk. But it said, they heard the voice walking in the garden. And the voice spoke to them. Now, they got to see that when they talking about this religion, that this who they call Jesus Christ, the voice spoke and said, ”This is my son." It didn't say whose voice—there you got the voice again; it's always about this voice. So now you go back to ancient Egypt. And you see that they are—they were dealing with the voice, they were dealing with the—-the mouth. They were dealing with the eye—the mouth as eye, you got—any hole is the eye, really, like Adam and Eve. And they were dea1ing—they took this symbol ”Ra,” which represented the mouth, it represented the eye, and——uh—people got to get back to that, and they got to see: what were the Sun priestesses teaching? One thing they was teaching: whatever you did, never desire to be like God. Because then God was a very primary, low turn of disaster. And that's what they taught. Not to—not to ever want to be like God. And then they put it over into symbols like——uh—about—uh—that Lucifer wanted to be like God. And then things happened, really bad. And then Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, and things happened very bad. But you've got a whole world trying to be like God. Now it comes down to being that—eh—the book is true———uh—it's true, all right, and they got nothing but something bad enough humanity. Now, they have tc>—they have to be careful because they have to learn how to discriminate, but since you've got some people on this planet who are against discrimination—they're against the word, which means judgement. Now if you're against discrimination, that means you have no judgement; you cannot make any choices, because you in the status quo, and you stay there. Now the word ”discrimination” has been made a very bad word. Now they have to not use that word in that way—uh—-it's not right to take a word which means something nice for you, and make it be bad. Because if you take a word and make it bad, then this God, the Creator, He just say, ”Oh, discrimination is bad, so I'll see that they don't discriminate." That means that they will not make choices at all; they have no judgement. Now, so we got to deal with that, we got to deal with these—-—and the word ”liberty" is a very bad word. The word ”liberty,” the word ”liberal,” somebody is using—like in this campaign, uh—Bush is using the word ”libera1” as something bad. Now—so then Dukakis come and said, he is a liberal. Now, some folks is using that word ”libera1” to defeat him. Now it—the question is, does Bush really know that, or is he being controlled? But the word ”liberal” colud make him lose the election. Some folks is using that. And then you say, ”Well, what is a liberal?" So then you go to the Bible, and see what it says about liberal. It says a ”liberal” is a churl. It's got it written. The liberal is a churl. So somebody used that on Dukakis, they said he is the worst possible thing that a man could be, ‘cause a ”churl" according to the dictionary is a ’’low, contemptable, scoundrel, rascal.” Now, somebody-— Bush called him a ”scoundrel and a rascal” maybe unknowingly, but as I said, Bush has made the word ”liberal” a bad word, and he's going by the Bible. Now maybe, maybe he knows. Maybe he doesn't. But a lot of people use that book in a way to hurt people. Maybe they don't even know it. So I would say, some folks is controlling people with words. And the book does say, ”Here a word, there a word, precept upon precept, line by line until they be taken and snared.” Now, the book is saying that people can be snared by words. So they have to be careful about these words. N ow, music is a language. Now, when I found all these things, I dec-—not speaking all languages, so-—I wondered—how could I talk to the world, to tell them things? So I took everything I learned, and I put it into music, and that's what it is. And some times people will say, well, they don't—they don't understand. But then, it's not about understanding; it's about can they feel what I'm talking about. To understand it—well, it jumps over into a lot of different directions. So it doesn't do any good, ‘cause you can interpret—uh—it any kind of way you want to. But if you—if they feel something, and they pure at heart, then they will understand what—they will feel what I'm saying, and they——-well, they won't be part of the Kingdom of Death, like they are now. You see, they———like the hippies said, ”God is dead.” But- um-And Nietzche said that too. He said, ’’Old man in the forest does not know that God is dead,” so they ain't saying nothing new; he said it, [inaudible] ”The old man in the forest does not know that God is dead.” So they didn't come up with nothing new, you know; they studied Nietzche [inaudible]. But see, I studied all these things, and uh—but you see, they should say, ”God is Death.” And not that God is dead, but God is death. In other words, that's what He is. So when people go out and they want to be like God, they went over into his Kingdom—of Death. Now I said that in Kansas City. Kansas City Star took my picture and put it up above the name of the newspaper and said, ”Revolutionary, so to speak.” Then took the—they had two pages. Under one—uh—big picture of me they said something about infinity; that I'm dealing with infinity. And the first one they had, they said, ”Sun Ra says that God is death.” And didn't comment on it. And it's true: God is death. And it—uh—-—'is written, well it happens, that when people have dreams or something, a vision of God, and they see him, they die. Coltrane saw God, and he died. And a friend connected with us, in Washington D.C., he told me one day, he saw God. He's dead. Now, I'm—I'm going by equations now, and I've heard other people say it: you see God, that's it. And he told me about the vision he had; I said, I well, they say that man cannot see God and live, so now—maybe you should prepare to die. Because he said he saw God: he was buck naked, God was sitting on his throne, gold robe, and goldthings all around shining, and he walked toward God; God said, ”Get back! Stand back!” And he asked me what that means, I said, ”well, it could mean that He rejected you; it could mean that He was trying to protect you, not to approach Him, ‘cause you'd die. But you're in trouble. The best thing is prepare to die.” And in three months, he was dead. Now, I'm dealing with—uh—-equations; I'm not dealing with what I think, because the big-—I call it omniverse [knocking at door: 2 long, 3 short; door squeaks open ] it's impossible to know everything, but you can feel everything. Definitely. [phone rings, and someone answers ] You can feel the whole universe, and—-and just—your feeling's quite vast. The mind can't do that. It just be one track. But the feelings can go on all tracks at the same time. Now when you're dealing with feeling, you can feel what is real for you. That's what I'm doing; I'm going by feeling. [To phone ] Hello? Unrecorded voice on phone: S: [To phone ] Yes yeah... yes... well, I tell you, this is a vast organization, and it touches up against the real ruler of the planet. We have to see—to talk to you to see—uh— things and talk to other people who are connected, because this isn't just where this is— this band was established like other bands, it was—-—uh—-it was—it was backed up by some people who were unselfish, and some people who felt that—uh—what I was trying to do in music was being hampered by commercial folks and other people, and who said it was too far out, and about twelve people got together, some musicians and others, and- one of them is arabbi, he's a black hebrew, he's in Israel now—and they put up the money, and they established us a record company, Saturn, so that I would be heard regardless of commercial folks. They did that. So then the foundation of it was for to get this music out there to people, and they put these records out, they put the money in it; they didn't ask for no money; it's the most unselfish organization ever been on this planet. They didn't ask for no money. They said this music should be heard by people. So because this- Phone: [speaks for several seconds ] S: [To phone ] Well, we'll talk about it today, but you'll have to meet these people who are scattered in Israel, in Egypt, in Germany, in Japan, millions and millions of people are part of what I'm doing. Although in a sense they don't realize it, but they are. If they had a touch of what I'm talking about, they never would be happy. If a planet where you got destruction and death, something has touched them where they can see; this does not have to be. Now I never tried to—to reach them like—-—uh———sending newsletters—but they're asking me to—a lot of them are teenagers, sub-teenagers; and it's——it's very vast, it's out beyond—out beyond my control at this point. I'm just—I'm a scholar, see; a scholar can be by themselves and have such a nice time, but in that case, it's not going to be like that, I have to be talking to people, but they will be changed, and everything they think is right, that will be nullified, and that's kind of hard: to come to a planet and nullify everything, but everything has to be nullified for them, or else they're going to die. Now, so that—that is very vast, and I'm listening to the voice of a Creator which— um—I've never seen, but He's been my guide, you know, to—to say what to say, what to do, and that makes——uh——it's a total mystery. It is a mystery to talk about A Mystery. And that's what the Creator is: A Mystery. Such a—such a big mystery until you cannot find Him in history; you find in mythology. He—— Phone: [speaks for two seconds] S: Uh-huh, mine is—my arrival date is that too, and—- Phone: [speaks for eight seconds ] S: Well, you called me up, I—I'm being interviewed right now, so you can call me later on. Phone: [speaks for one second] S: Yes. About three o'clock, two o'clock, something like that. Phone: [speaks for two seconds] S: Oh yes, I don't go nowhere. I have to be in place. Phone: [speaks for two seconds] S: All right, yeah, bye. [speaking to ].R. again] Yeah, it's a—it's a case where this Being is saying, ”Okay, now, I taught you——if you want to———if you want to do something, my people, you can do it. You got the thought there to do it. What are you going to do?” And that's where it is: ”what are you going to do? Now, if you're dissatisfied with the world as it is, you have to find something better. Put the blueprint out there; I'll make it, according to what you do.” And that's what this Creator's been waiting on: somebody come up with a blueprint for the nations of the world, where He can build, because He's a creator: He'll build. But the danger is, you have to become like God in a sense—a lot of people want to be like gods, but they don't—they haven't read all the different scriptures, and one of them says, the gods who do not create shall perish. So then a lot of people jumped over to the name of God, but they don't create nothing, and they die. So this- you have to-—you have do some——every day, I create something, I——I have to create some—but I'm so far ahead on the creation, that they—I've been doing a whole lifetime, see. Some times I create seven things a day, or twenty things a day, some I write something, or else-—uh——some—a song, or some poetry, or some more equations that are quite mysterious, but they're there; scientific [inaudible]. Now I was in Berkeley, right here in California, I felt that here, since it's supposed to be the city of sin, everything goes. But in the city of sin, they blocked me. Uh—um—it was perfect [inaudible]—people say it was perfect, and then San Francisco—-uh———at that—uh——-University of California, in Berkeley, and I was supposed to be teaching there, and I had some of my cosmic things, and I had proof of it, and all the students was reading these books——that I didn't write-— and it was all done precisely, and then they said that I wasn't here; that I was in Egypt. And I wasn't in Egypt; I was right here. I got the papers to show that the students [inaudible]. I was right here, but then they——-uh—-what I told them was, ”You don't want me to tell your students what you might call philosophy. If you call yourself a university, you're supposed to expose your students to everything, pro and con, right and wrong. Otherwise they can go out into the world and they won't be prepared; something you might think is insignificant, might be the very thing they have to fight against, and you should prepare them. If you don't like what I'm saying, you should let them hear it so they can get their guard up and fight against it—if they need to. But then if they can't hear what I'm saying, then they jump out there, and they'll be unprepared.” I said, ”now you——you don't have a right to call yourself to be a university, because a university covers everything, right and wrong.” I said, ”Nature teaches you things; Nature's got some snakes out there, it's got some poisons out there, it's got everything. And if you——if you—-If I can't talk here in San Francisco, you going to have a problem in your schools,” and so I just left. They didn't pay me, and- ]: When was this? S: Around 1970, or so. Other voice: '71. S: They didn't—they didn't pay me in two, three months since I [inaudible]. They dropped me. But then I said, well, why'd they do that? Um—-—they wanted me to tell about the music; the music has somehing to do with the cosmos; that was what I was doing; I was trying to get them prepared. [phone rings, someone answers: ”Saturn Research’ ] Um-—But thenI said, now, why did they do that? Well, I tell the students I——I'm dealing with equations. Now I have to decide—uh, what—-uh——what uh—why is the black race in America in the condition they're in? [speaking to phone] Hello? Okay. She's here. Okay. [back to ].R.] I wanted to find out why were uh— [side one of tape ends ] —[inaudible] is shipped here, like there was no account whatsoever. And then I had to research on that. So I told the student, that—uh—the reason that Black people are in America—uh—Ethiopia financed that. Ethiopia instegated it. Ethiopia. I said, if I'm telling you the truth, if I'm telling you the truth that Ethiopia instigated the enslavement, and dehumanization of Black people in America today, if I'm telling you the truth, the Emperor of Ethiopia is going into house arrest, and will die there. [inaudible]. He went into house arrest; he died there. And I said, now—uh—you got a president—Nixon—Now he's not going to make it in the White House; he'll still be in politics; he's coming out of the White House. According to my equations, his name is against him: his name is ”Nix”—that's negative. Now if you turn his name backwards, it's still negative: it's ”No.” Now you got ”no” forward and backward, so he—he can't escape; he's coming out of that White House. Now: it happened. Now, eh—about five years later, the university wanted———they wanted my—I recorded my lectures. Now, they want it, and I said no, well since you didn't recognize when I was there, they—uh—the lectures belong to me, you can't have it. You still owe me, also, for three months. Well that's the way it is in San Francisco: they really need what I'm talking about. But since they rejected it, what can I do? The world needs to know what I'm saying, and these universities need to know what I'm saying, but I've risen up above universities, say well, they're no good. Uh—I had to report to the Creator, say the universities are not suitable, on this planet. They talk about universe, and then they—they putting something down. That's not proper. But I said so I'm just going to-—one day, I'm going to establish my omnivers-ity. And in my omniversity, people can learn everything. And I'm going to do that. I'm going to establish my omniversity. Now you don't have an omniversity on the planet. ”Universe” just means ”one thing,” they have to deal with the oneness of things, so I have my equations that say the oneness of things deal with the past. Uhh—I can prove that by the statement of, ”Once upon a time.” It does not mean something's going to happen, it does not mean anything's happening now, it has nothing to do with the future, nothing to do with present; once means the past. Now, so I'm dealing with that, I'm dealing with equations, I'm dealing with the cross they got up there, what they got ”IHST” up there over there, and I'm dealing with that, what that means, and I'm dealing with—uhh—further back, if they research, they'll find out they had ”YHST” up there, and they had ”UHST,” they have to go in the Catholic Church over there, in the archives, and look and see: ”U,H,S,T” spells ”shh-us." Backwards is ”shut”: S,H,U,T. That's the end of that. Now ”YHST” is an ancient Egyptian word, and—uh—-it has no vowels, but it can be pronounced, and the way you pronounce it is: ”wise.” Wise. But most people say——I ask people, how do you pronounce ”YHST,” and they say ”yest,” and all that, and some kind of way their mind never comes to pronounce it like it is: ”wise.” Now, the Book says, ”a tree to make one wise.” And here you got a man hanging up on the cross: wise—on the tree, ah—then you've got over there where you got the "UHST,” the man has become like one of us : UHST. Backwards, shut. Now over here, you've got this ”IHST.” That's ”is.” But you read it backwards, it's ”shit.” Now: so you got that shit hanging up there, in that church. Now—uh—they have to say—well, I got the whole thing! Uh—it's "bullshit!" Now, the Creator—uh—this force-—has put it out there, for people, and then they have to read, they got to go back and read words. Now, “bull” is a note-——to this day the Catholic Church put the ”bull” up there. That means a notice. And they put the papal bull up there. Right there. England is called—-uh— ”]ohn Bull,” and they put—and a bull only means—that's where the word ”bu1letin” comes from. It only means—uh—a notice. And so the Creator put the notice up there; the bull up there. But then you got that ”shit” backwards, so you got that ”bullshit” up there, and all these people are following this bullshit that the Creator put up there. [Inaudible] He put up there to see if they intelligent enough to see what this is. Now in some kind of way, they——uh—I don't blame them for wanting me not to tell people that, because it's very bad-—-uh—It is bad that that Catholic Church would be-—would someday be giving them wafers to-—um—put it on their tongue, and—and this-—this wafer got shit on it. S,H,I,T ‘cause, ”IHS,” boom, put that shit on their tongue. Now that's very crude, you know, to say that, but of course, I've seen them, and it got it on that wafer: ”S,H,I,T.” Because the thing in the East, even in Japan, they read this way: (gestures right to left). The book: boom. This way. And in the West, this way: (gestures left to right). So you got a case where they—they all should read this way or that way, and you got a case where in one—in the East: this way. In the West, this way. So then you got a case where it means one thing to the East and another thing to the West, because they do two things: that way, that way. And—and if something is good for the East, in the West it's bad. It's bad. And here you've got this confusion, like that. And it's like-—never——the East is East, and the West—never the twain shall meet. Well, they got to-—they got to get together and read the same way, you see. They got to have what you call-what I call the Omniversal language. Omniversal language: is music. And it happens to be—-that it's jazz. They have to—Now. Well, in—in—uh—in Greek they spell jazz something like ”tzaz” or something, so you got, they call it different names, and this——I got the whole answer about things-—why you got AIDS and all like that—uh—it——it's—you tell them that, it's so simple, that they [inaudible] AIDS comes from the word ”said”. . . Tape ends here; end Part 2 lllII_I_IE HAND/\I.I. §axo,£2hnm°A.t ARRANGER and COMPOSER Former ly with EARL ”FATHA” HINES 0 FLETCHERHENDERSON HORACE HENDERSON and many Chicago Orchestras +++++++++++++4 INTRODUCES Sunni 5‘£ca/2.6/t.ica4o.3,]12p. ’}’}’luAia'an.»Lw£t/L , .lllII_I_IE RAI\IDAI_I_’S ORCHESTRA ": ;'',-:: V. . L .5/\.>_ /.I\ , 9 I . . ._ _ ‘., ‘ I’ , I _ . ,. ‘ W V. > . ,. .. " I _ ; e" .’ _‘ ,,..: A . f ' ,- . . Left to Right: ‘Back Row—-PAUL SERRANO, EARLE ”SONNY” TURNER and HENDERSON SMITH, Trumpets. I _ Left to Right: Front Row—JO.’-IN AVANT, HARLEN ”BOOBlE” FLOYD, . - I In» «~ Riaht—SYLVESTER HICKMAN, Bass and JOE McL5W|S, Trombones. Left to Right-—EDDIE WILLIAMS, Tenor, FRANK DERRICK, Alto; JOHN GILMORE, Te 1or,- RONALD WILSON, Baritone. W: _ . Center—W|LLlE RANDALL, Alto I "We, Obce, Clorino‘ --- '*-I {'0 EQHOT HITS FRESH FROM THE SUN HOT HITS FRESH FROM THE SUN HOT HITS FRESH FROM THE SUN HOT I HOT HITS FRE H FR M ->"€< THESS u/v * ’’‘‘‘ HOT HITS FRESH FROM THE SUN'S 1 ”**mNW*****~$$*******£:*d*****$**************************$****$****$$$$* L. N\ « 96 “SPACE IS THE PLACE” All performed by Sun Ra and Arkestra “IMMEASURABLE EQUATION” (A book ofspace-wisdoin by Sun Ra) 43:2.-.§o ->661 Co? *$*********************$************** ***************************$***********$***$$$$$$$$*$ Mean on. mwef ov:§ee.'a H:b¢ea~5c.e— * * El SATURN RESEARCH 9% ,6 P.O. BOX 7124 CHICAGO, IL. 60607 96 HOT HITS FRESH FROM THE SUN HOT HITS FRESH FROM THE SUN HOT HITS FRESH FROM-THE SUN HO’I_‘& 96 H .LOH NOS EIHJ. I\'O}l:I I~ISH}I¢I SLIH .LOH NIIS SIHJ. I'\IO}I¢I HSEIHJ SLIH LOH NUS C>III.L I\'O}I.>I IISC>IH:I S_LIII LLOH NOS GIHIL I«\’O}I:I IISEIHJ S.LIH .LOH Z D U) E D [-4 >1 0 ad in E7: E D: k U) E B O 2!: 22 D U) E251: H- B S O . :31 E I U) L11 :2 k U) E-4 E E-< 0 LI: Z D U) I31 I.‘ E-* 2 O Dd In '.I.‘ U) E Q: E U) E D E-' O 1". 2 D U) E D E-* ‘>3 0 Cﬁ IL. I.‘ U) LL] 9‘ pl-a U) E E- O LT. CONTENTS COPYIIIGIIT© 1995 BY DMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER IIINDS. INDIVIDUAL ISSUES $4.00 S3ONVH:l V_lOUV9 SUN BA RESEARCH E0. BOX 786 MILLBRAE, CA 94030
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-03
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 05 (February, 1996)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996-02-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: >c 3 9*" we 0 s fms .m m as Y B A R. N U S ) A. « . w 3 j¢w%ww§L,‘§ » . . . m \ CONVERSATION WITH WALTER MILLER WALTER MILLER 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS ELITE CLUB: SAN FRANCISCO, FALL 1981 PH: We saw a film over in Oakland a couple months ago. A JOYFUL NOISE. They showed that over at Laney College and you were in it. We saw you. WM: I would like to see it. PH: You haven’t seen it yet? WM: No. PH: You get a little feature at the end. WM: Somebody told me that, hey Sunny, you know these gentlemen. (Sun Ra takes a seat next to Walter Miller.) SR: Of course. WM: A lot of trumpet players like to play loud. But I don’t like to play loud. It shows that you are unprofessional sometimes. You know, you’re playing real loud. Distorting. You can’t think and play hard. (Walter Miller then starts talking about Freddie Hubbard.) WM: He’s made a lot of money. PH: He has made a lot of money. Some of his records haven't been that interesting. WM: He’s really not my trumpet player. But, ...
Show more>c 3 9*" we 0 s fms .m m as Y B A R. N U S ) A. « . w 3 j¢w%ww§L,‘§ » . . . m \ CONVERSATION WITH WALTER MILLER WALTER MILLER 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS ELITE CLUB: SAN FRANCISCO, FALL 1981 PH: We saw a film over in Oakland a couple months ago. A JOYFUL NOISE. They showed that over at Laney College and you were in it. We saw you. WM: I would like to see it. PH: You haven’t seen it yet? WM: No. PH: You get a little feature at the end. WM: Somebody told me that, hey Sunny, you know these gentlemen. (Sun Ra takes a seat next to Walter Miller.) SR: Of course. WM: A lot of trumpet players like to play loud. But I don’t like to play loud. It shows that you are unprofessional sometimes. You know, you’re playing real loud. Distorting. You can’t think and play hard. (Walter Miller then starts talking about Freddie Hubbard.) WM: He’s made a lot of money. PH: He has made a lot of money. Some of his records haven't been that interesting. WM: He’s really not my trumpet player. But, you know, I’m glad to see anybody be successful. He’s not in the category like Dizzy or Miles. This set of giants. But he’s a perfectionist at what he’s doing. He plays legitimate, you know. He’s a hell of a trumpet player. All the way around. I don’t discredit him. He’s not my trumpet player. Not like Dizzy. I like Miles. I like what he’s doing. It’s just not my thing. WM: He (Sun Ra) is into a thing now about the space program. PH: Space Shuttle? WM: Yeah. This pushing the button at the White House. He’s into that now. It’s inter- esting. He’s into some cursing, too. Surprised me. JH: How’s your horn? Is this a good horn? You like it? WM: This horn here. This is a good axe. JH: You had that for a while? WM: Yeah, this is an Olds. That’s a very good horn. Feel it. See, it’s light. I like a light horn. This is a heavier horn. This is an inexpensive horn. This is a Roberts(?).you see, it’s a little heavier. But the key action in it is so hard. This one needs working on. See? Feel that. That’s what I like. It’s fast. It needs some pads or something. But it don’t bother me too much. I can play it without keeping a noise. That horn will kill you, man. That horn is hard. JH: How does a trumpet break in? I don’t play trumpet. WM: It takes about six months when you play it consistently. Now, the high notes on this horn up to G is very good. They’re very . This one needs some work done on it see. Some of the slides don’t come out, You got corrosion. This slide is stuck, this slide is stuck, and this slide is stuck. Once you get it soaked and get all that corrosion out. I cleaned the barrels. That’s why the barrels play so easy. JH: Any problems with tuning adjustments? WM: Not that one. This one. See, all these slides are stuck. I blow this one in tune. Because I’m used to it. It’s easier to handle. But that horn . . . all the slides . . . are loose on this one. But it’s easy to get in tune. But it’s so hard to play because the barrel action is so bad. You got to push it all the way down to get a sound. This horn you don’t have to do it . . . just casually. (Fingers trumpet.) That horn . . . that's too much pressure. If you’re thinking and playing you get a lot of pressure on you. I’m going to get me a good horn. JH: What kind of horn would you like? WM: I'd like to have me a Martin Imperial. I’ve been to the pawnshops because they don’t make them no more. I was in Chicago trying to find one. They’re just hard to find. The last one I had I borrowed from a friend of mine. And I blew holes in it. I loved that horn, man. WM: Sunny’s been kind of distant. He won’t tell me a lot of things now. See, they went to Europe this year and I didn’t go. I wasn’t in shape at that time. I went to somebody and they helped . . . give me some counseling. Talked to me. You’d be surprised at the cosmic powers people have individually when you can put trust in their ability to do things. You can’t dispute a person when they say they can cure you without a doctor. Without medicine. That’s strange. For a minute there I had no ailment right after my counseling. But I’m going back to see this lady again. She’s awful nice. Metaphysical healing. PH: This in Philadelphia? WM: Yeah. WM: Sunny’s changing. He’s very changing. Hard to deal with now. Got a little money. Got some money in his pocket. Money change people. WM: I heard Dizzy playing Rock and Roll. He'd be playing some rock beats. Dizzy’s crazy. He’ll do anything, anyway. You can’t discredit Diz. He’s the Boss. Strange cat, man. He’s strange. First time I ever heard a trumpet player play like that man I want- ed to scream, “What’s he doing?” PH: When did you first hear him? g WM: I heard Dizzy whan I was about seventeen. I heard Sun Ra had bought some records . . . I used to go up to Sunny’s house, you know, and Sunny says, “Come on. I want you to hear this trumpet player.” And he played Blue and Boogie. Diz and Dexter Gordon. They was playing a little small blues thing and Dizzy was playing those high 2 I note triplets. At first he’d play a little riff in his mute then take his mute out and then he’d play those high note triplets (sings phrase). Man, what is this cat doing!? I never heard a trumpet player playing like that. I heard Roy Eldridge. Roy Eldgride was out there. He was doing some things . . . like Dizzy. I told Roy. I was over in Europe with Roy about five or six years ago and I told him, “man, when Dizzy come on the scene you was out there by yourself, as an innovator . . CONVERSATION WITH JOHN GILMORE BERKELEY, CA FALL 1981 JOHN GILMORE 0 JOHN HINDS JH: When did you start in the fifties developing the harmonic thing? When did you start hearing that? JG: Sun Ra was always into it. JH: Would he encourage you? I JG: Yeah. He was already into that type of thing. Quartertones, eighth tones. Stuff like that he’d teach us how to do it. JH: In American classical music, jazz, it seems like where I’ve heard that before was Illinois Jacquet and around the world Africans or Pygmies or aboriginies with their did- jareedoo . . . things like that. Using the harmonics. But you’re one of the cats. JG: I started in the Army a long time ago practicing that particular way. Developing harmonics a long time ago and it just developed by itself over the years. I started when I was in the service. The Air Force band. I started studying harmonics around about twenty years ago. So I’ve been after it a long time. Some things just come out . . . when I was in the Air Force there was a sargeant in there then . . . this dude played so damn high. He must have played at least six or seven octaves I mean natural. No overtones . . . natural. He was a bitch. That was the kind of cats I was hanging out within the Army. JH: That influence you a bit, to see this Guy? JG: Oh, yeah! This cat was playing all up there, Jim. I forget his name. I never will forget him, though. This dude was playing all up there like it was nothing. Long time ago. He was terrible. It inspired me to get into the type of study the high notes . . . the range of the horn. When I saw how much range he had I said, “damn!” I couldn’t believe it. Playing all up in the higher register like it was the middle register of his horn. Fluid. Every interval unintelligible. JH: I wonder what happened to that guy? JG: I wonder. I really do wonder. . JH: It’s coming through you. You're well aware, more than I am, how it influenced a lot of people, Great inspiration to me. I’ll say that humbly. JG: Appreciate it. I’m sure his first name was Joe. I don't remember his last name. He was an Air Force sargeant. JH: Some of the earliest stuff I have with you is things that came out a few years ago called Blowing Sessions with Johnny Griffin. JG: Clifford Jordan? JH: Yeah. It’s a double set. JG: Well, actually they took that from a Blue Note record and just put it on there. It’s a Blue Note record that me and Clifford Jordan did with Horace Silver. It’s a whole record. They just took a couple tracks and put it on there. The original album is called Blowing In From Chicago. Art Blakey, Curley Russel, Horace Silver and me and Cliff. JH: And I got the thing you did with McCoy Tyner. JG: Oh, yeah. I liked that. Frank Strozier is nice on that. He's smokin’. JH: I’ve been trying to trace your evolution and there is a lot of recorded material but in a way there's only so much. Each tune will fill the crack a little bit more making clear . . . to try and figure out the lineage of the things you've done . . . try and study it. JG: You trying to learn. You got to study all the people. I studied a lot of cats when I was coming up. I had a whole lot of influences. JH: Who are some of your early influences? JG: Prez, Dex, Coleman Hawkins, Sonny Rollins, Sonny Stitt . . . I listened to Stan Getz closely. Wardell Gray. All those cats. I listened to them intensely. JH: Clarinet was your first instrument. JG: That’s why Iwas kind of late in picking up jazz because there wasn't too much jazz playing. Everybody was playing the saxophone. I didn’t run into too much jazz on clarinet. I mostly readfand played classical. Clifford Jordan and all those cats were already into blowing. Johnny Griffin and those cats were smokin’ already. I came a lit- tle bit behind them after I came out of the service and I had learned to play tenor. I wasn't really playing tenor in the service. Just mainly clarinet. JH: That was about . . . when would you say that is? JG: That was about ‘48 when I went in. Came out about ‘51. JH: Didn’t you start playing with Sun Ra about ‘53? I JG: Must of been something like that. I had a short unintelligible with Earl Hines first I played with his big band. I was out on the road with him. JH: I've read some things where you talk about that period of meeting Sun Ra . . . I think it was the tune Saturn and discovering something you didn’t see right off the top. JG: Yeah, I couldn’t hear the beauty of his intervals. You know how stretched out they were. He was writing some stuff there. JH: The harmonies throw you or were they pretty much natural at that point for you? JG: The intervals were unusual intervals to me. Very unusual. Take you to different parts of the horn you hadn’t been before. Sometimes I got some stuff that damn near bust your hands. Fingering wise. Because I'd never played no passages, no intervals like that arranged in the sequences the way he arranged it. It might be the same inter- vals that you’re used to but the sequence that he uses them in makes the fingering so damn hard. JH: And ‘Marshall Allen in the last few years he’s been exposing what figures to be some of his earliest influences which I didn’t hear so much through the sixties, the seventies. 4 That kind of Hodges slur. JG: Yeah. He loves Johnny Hodges. JH: You've got an Otto Link (mouthpiece). What is that? A seven or eight? JG: It’s about a nine ten. It’s the largest they have that you can buy. I used to blow an eleven. Wore out. I had it opened up to an eleven. I had it for many years. It just ﬁnally deteriorated and I had to buy a new one. I think this is the largest face that they have. JH: You just got that recently? JG: No, I’ve had it a while, now. JH: What kind of reed are you using? JG: Around about a three. SRR Number Five - Published five times in 1996 - Subscription: $15.00 for five issues; $3.00 single issue. Back issues $3.00. Edited by Peter Hinds © 1996. Omni Press, P,O. Box 786, Millbrae, CA 94030 I Thanks to Victor Schonfield for supplying White Panther Party - Sun Ra Press Release. 5 photo: Hyou All jueves, 18 delilio de 1985 0 FESTIVAL DE DE SAN SEBASTIAN Acluurﬁ eslu noche con su Intergalactic Arkeslm, ldespués de Jock Deiohnelte llegé Sun Ra, envuelto en una misteriosa aureola San Sebastian (DV). — Se esperaba ayer, con gran expectacién, la llegada a San Sebastian de uno de los grupos mas originales de la actualidad jazzistica, Sun Ra y su Intergalactic Arkestra, que se presenta- ran hoy en el Festival de Jazz donostiarra tras la actuacion de Jack Dejohnette Special Edition. Sun Ra y su lntergaléctica Arkestra, compues- ta por 18 personas, llegaron a Donosti a las doce y media de la maﬁana a bordo de un autobﬁs rojo, procedentes de Paris. El primero en descender fue el 'jefe', acompaﬁado de su manager, el resto de la gran familia esperaba en el autobus. Mientras Sun Ra‘ inspeccionaba las habitaciones del hotel, los demés se entretenlan contemplando el rio. Poco a poco fueron entrando con sus respecti- vos equipajes. Subian y bajaban ante la sorprendente mirada de las personas que en ese momento se encontraban alll. Sun Ra subié y ya no volvié a bajar. Tres horas de espera en el hotel nosayudaron a conectar‘con los miembros del grupo. Fue una larga espera rodeada de misterio. A ultima hora, el lider nos invité a subir a su suite. Otro cuarto de hora esperando, mientras su manager realizaba los ultimos preparativos y por fin la aparicién de Sun Ra. Un hombre cuya edad se desconoce, envuelto en una aureola magica y misteriosa. Perilla y pelo color rojo intenso, bajo un gorro de lentejue- las rojo y un gran volumen escondi- do tras una gran tunica negra, todo ello adornado con multiples colla- res. En definitiva, yn festival de color. Desprende una gran activi- dad. Habla un inglés rapido, casi sin vocalizar. —gQue signiﬁca el nombre de Sun Ra? —Es un nombre muy antiguo, un nombre bésico, si, es bésico. Po- see ritmo y sonido. es sobre todo una palabra con gran sonoridad, radio, radiaciones. A las personas si algo les gusta dicen ra ra ra... A continuacién relaté sus ultimos conciertos en Gracia, ltalia, Alema- nia. De Espaﬁa conoce Barcelona y Madrid, desconocia la existencia . del Festival de Jazz donostiarra. Conoce Europa. —gAmérica...? es un pals comer- cial, el paraiso del dinero. Los ame- ricanos viven por y para la televi- sion. Aqui hay mas tiempo, lo que posibilita el traslado a la abstrac- cién. Si sientes, eres capaz de amar, solo entonces lo consegui—. ras. El mismo enlaza unas palabras con otras. -Busco la felicidad, unico modo para llegar a tener un bonito plane- ta. La gente necesita amistad y felicidad, el resurgir de la amistad sucede con lo que yo digo. Vengo como amigo del mundo, las perso- nas que acuden a mi me ven como a un Dios, tengo- infinidad de nom- bres. «No al universo, si al omniverso» -(Que es.|a musica en su vida? —La musica no es universal. yo no creo en el universo, tengo fé en el ' omniverso, ya que el universo es incapaz de abarcar la totalidad. Para mi las personas son mas reales que los musicos... Necesitamos mayor espiritualidad, el planeta debe aco- geros a todos, yo no soy de este planeta...lntento hablar para to- dos... ser 0 no ser, esa es la cues- tién... -gPuede la musica salvarnos de la guerra nuclear? —La musica nos aporta la verda- dera felicidad, que es lo mejor que podemos sentir. La musica es el unico lenguaje que nos permite en- trar en contacto... La gente no esté enamorada, Io finge porque no tie- ne nada mejor que hacer. —¢Que es el jazz?. —Es una musica preciosa cargada de espiritualidad. En ella no existen posibilidades de repeticién, nunca puede surgir una melodia idéntica a otra. Es un sentimiento con el que todo puede realizarse. Es perfecto para expresarse. Cualquier nacién cuando aplaude esté viva. El jazz es musica, su esencia es el sentimien- to. Nunca ha habido nadie mejor que yo... La musica transforma los lugares. Mi musica es como yo. toco como hablo, necesito la expre- sién de mi mismo, tenemos que vencer las dificultades... Preside la habitacién una gran esfera dorada que habia sido cuida- dosamente bajada del autobus y separada del resto del equipaje. -Que representa la esfera?. —Es el planeta solar. Yo no soy de este planeta...Vosotros necesi- tais que os hable de cosas senci— Has. No les des nombres, dales el planeta (murmura invocando a al- guien). Todos tenemos un destino, una necesidad de movimiento, de ir de un lugar a otro, lo que debe permanecer es ese movimiento. Necesitamos cooperacién, belleza y sinceridad para llegar a la verdad. Hay quien afirma que hay dos ver- dades, dos posibilidades. Hagamos lo imposible, en el espacio. (Una larga pausa). Este mundo no es mi casa, mi casa esté en el espacio. Todos los componentes del gru- po Ilevan camisetas y chapas en las que hay dibujada una gran piramide, simbolo de la energia, acompaﬁada de la frase «El espacio es el lugar». Tengo mucho que hacer por vuestro planeta. No soy politico, ni religioso ni filésofo, no soy nada do eso... —gEs un mensajero? —Sl. Quizés si la gente no sabo. que es bueno para ellos, soy capaz de predecir lo que pasara', en deter- minado momento senti la imperiosa necesidad de la Iluvia... Llovié tanto como yo pedi. Espacio, vida, cosas abstractas, busco un planéta inte- grado por belleza y felicidad, es un sueﬁo, lo sé. Cuando toco, quiero hacer felices a los demas, quiero lo mejor, aunque no es lo que hace la. gente , las naciones estén confundi— das y dubitativas, quiero la com- prensién de la humanidad... Una larga entrevista con un musi- co procedente de otro planeta. Garbiﬁe Plazas - to 0 oonceno de ontom Um ammado «desplque-» musncal (e néo so) enlre dais dos mstrumontislas IIXYA-IKLIIIAIOSIOHIQIS Sun Fla, prostando arencéo an !rasea- .do -do grﬂo o do gomido» do saxoIo- nisla da Arkoslra, qua Ioz furor duran- . Z. :'.s.-:;’.“-. -- Sun Ra ao -DP-: -A minha masica 6 comida para o espiriton 0 ESPECTACULO CIRCEIISE DE SUN [A E SIIA AIIKESTIA V uMA BIz,AnnA VIAGEM ATRAVES no JAZZ... Monuol Noto (toxto) o Vltor Fonolro (Iotos) Comumohorodoauoooo‘ lhotos.tivovomdoosporur|on- poromo um ombionto do porvoi- goo momomoo no wnsoguirom todooorgunizor;Ao—oontonos ontrorno onmootro.oos pro dopossoo:.poosu3dorosdobi- priosjomolisosomsorvioodo ~'°P°'159°"‘ '°"3'" °°"9W°$ I to. no Fundoqlo Gulbonkson. 0-190'" a mécnacéo dos 999 uma sorio do oonconos son 0 memos do PSP om sorvuoo no mug .431; gm A9o;1o., loco.’-—. unIaou—so, onlom anon sg bgm gm 93395 lnmgmg. X — 4 - > - - Sun Ra Irouxo oonsigo duos bailarinas, vorsolois, uma das quai lambém Ioz porcussﬁo , I1-II orlundo do ouvzoo mundos. oonoo ohnoloo: oompcnno o copomloo. Oﬂou. lotto, Tycho Into; a do nanny Ino.. ouloo oo * no ‘ ‘ r ' ' _ doiondo¢m1ioIccoomo¢s'uooodvoooododooImo0o— _.'.m . . d. - oonoldom to mono doo homono oomo o nlloo you do oxﬂonoiodobouooinloopuiooonuuuunoooluvoovrooy mud-so no Idodo oounloo 0 combo! to polovvco hdopondonolcobotdodocvwoodo _‘ * polo homovn. oubhhuudo an o -uoona an onion )6 oovnooou. Umonomuonogrodoouo-onrowo-oomidou~nosoontm.A umoonto.SunRo.docoboIooonounodos—nmosvnocordo mconadobi9odoop0ro—oooondidospovunoboinoozul(do tomdo Joolm‘ " --.domlo ostorudidmoomovodioiuml-haw)oudo'ng-? nﬂlnguomodonodoeotpon . Sunﬁoounnonmowoooovoiunononiuonodo-jozz-.ouor oovvIocorvIpooiIoroinurprobIovohaanlm.quovoomoporoono- hniodnonﬁododomdoohnupoloo-oooludohoo _‘r.mgmn.a.ugueodoo.Ro.woopuocounnmovoo Ian; Ignoul on ovmooo _ _ ' ‘ do , ‘ .. ' 1;. '* _ ‘“‘ ‘ rndon1oo; ncrooopﬁmdododoooovugouoooo. goamuwnbovnpodowlllw .hrrooowro oomIdovaooouuInolo¢oooomId¢puuoo¢bIo.odvono —‘loIndulnatoh96ooo!lIoAblﬁ0o‘l qaooooomooooI‘oioo¢oOodoio:pvo¢Iopoo-ooodouoooto —G|ovo!Todooooharnom—ooooooovoohcompvoon:idooo Tonooooholoounoiooooulooovmnoooo ,_ ‘ douu, OOOOIINWID-P'°V.'“¢° unnaoomoumooao-Aoumnuoolnmounmn-(-Inn Eo|PVo.dIl0"I-0I=ndIM°|I00-Two'-°d°E9'P‘°-NN°°0* uagurrauqulonoumono-1. - «=09:-Ospvén-ionnalvwmwmownovotr-no-E80-000 _n¢a¢¢ooopoInocounIgIoo.luouqu-vood- ,‘.. “*4 quo, domino '“' odouo .Ilu¢oo0op|aIoM'l'ouu—¢:-nooIIIl¢.lnnomo roohoododoliunovoooipllocdoo. ' covnorofovhulndlchohloshopp-ova!-gadoﬂooun movinommmololmunlooiudodooopmlo-. . UANDO nos dospodimos do Sun Ra. somlomo-nos porIoita- mento abanados. Toria sido um -enoontro imodiato do lorooiro grau-? Uma troca do improssoos com um E.T.? Urn 1alsotio?... Contonno oscrovo Miguel Soon: in -Jazz do Hay. do Mora-. o -improssdo do so tralar do um folsdrio o movittvol. Comocmdo polo soupropnonomodoguorra, SunRaoumamosc!adoten-n .,' osimboIosdoAnoEgiplo,idoiosoonh4sossoorooosnia’dadoo umdodo ospacial sacodas do uma quolquor novel: a Iiocoo ciantilica. do aspocios mais ou monos camovaloowo-. AB. acros- conta: -Ouando so owe a sun musico. a ossombm wood! a n'sa. sunnaocapazdowm, ointorpro!arumornu'a'codompressio- nonlobalszaonéosooumvinuosopionistooornoaznsoguo organiza Iodo o oxorcilo do instrumonkx do «no so maid para cnar ooros, Ioxturas 9 sons porfoilomonlo osaururodos-. Foi. pois, oonsoionlos doslos uul ' o vooordaduo do suo coiobro lraso -umn Ialso nolo pawoca a dosadom do Unr'voroo- quo.Iovomonto,bolomosoponodoquonodohotoIondoso onoontra hospodado. nns proximidodos do Fundoqoo Guhonkion. Auuﬁggggodgu-.gu,dooootodoo.doohururu.S6oomo mg * ' .Mooo oomrono soohomom .:‘soudos1ino.coMmUIMIV|VM Amortooouncooponboonun rooslonostros. ._5u . uiuoohomomootddoelddoc doo1Mro1omI.a -oo.. —-Palovrosoomo oIibovdododovnomsorvom- dudes " Sloolooovozloporouoonotnomnulloutros homons. Os homons. no dos mulhovoo o dos outros vois incidonloo ropidomonlo Io- nhom sido osquocidoo oom a pvosonqo om paloo on Sun Ra Arkooua. Mo podomos doixor do volorir a dosmotivaqao quo odes cousaram. no ponto do to- vom lransformodo as onérios quo dbo ooosso bquolo local num conario mais ospoIha‘- com um curral do quo proprio- monto com um concerto do jozz. Mous sonhoros. ovgani- zom-so! Isto squu nao e proprio- momo a ropubhca dos bo- nonas. . Poslo o quo vomos no espec- locuio om oi. tslo 6. 8 passogom means: do Sun Ra Arkoslra polo po|oo (magnilioo) do unli- loolro no or Ixvro do Comte de Ano Modorna Poranlo umo mullidlo quo oxeodio om muno oo mil 9 qui- Sbosoros —Qnompovoobo. —Asnovoo9ovo1;bos. 0 pub//‘co, atonro, onchia por drogos.vIdoo.haxooo.co¢noIa!.naopotooborn°'o<';uiIoqtAodi9o. oMbo1 . r nhomos Iugoros onundndos. Sun Ra o suo Arkostn — cons- Iituido por doze missions is duos bollorinoo — dorom um oolondo show do sets 9 melodias. num tolhoor imorossamo do hismno do jazz. Bizarvomomo swmgodo. os- sim doﬁnimos o omuoolo que o Dous Sol 9 sous disclpulos ao- ram. 3 none passada. no Gul- benkian. lniciolmomo Iroo. posterior manto molodioo 9 tinolmonto ooomioo. Sun Flo poroorrou os varios oslilos pazzistioos numa ospocuo do -poriormonce-. ondo noo mlororn vooordaooos a Duke Ellington. Cnorton Mm» gus e Louis Armstrong. as oste- ticas do grito. zumbudo o cota- troto vindos do Cohrono ou wmploio a at so or Iivns do Glbonldon Surpvoondomo. porom. 6 o formo oomo Su Ro oomrolo umo orquoouo (oporomomomo) Iodiooo two do! oonsoguo Iiror. So Dom mo nlo Ionhomoo viajado atrovos do Univovso (lo: oomo nos tinho promolido) nom (onha dado. ooquov, pun otingic I Lua. qua Oolova choia. 0 octuocoo do Sun Ra — ondo a piano substituiu (quoso) perma- nontomomo o Moog - propa- ooooou-nos o mogio do locomo- caoooonoontodoswing, mo- Incl lnnoamonlo hug-rornpido polo onofaoﬁo ou mouno doooo- povo do quoﬁdlono. fﬂganfoldmosommogho PUlDII00|098u.IQUIvu'uInina'- V dorm ooomdo poucos horns omoodoeonconoaquo Sun Ra doﬂnirio oomo uma morn ques- Ilo do vbvaobos: dopois dos oroonlzndoros do -Jazz om Aqodow lorom lontado. pov vo- ria vozos, omrar om_ oontacio bloionioo com Madalena Padi- goo. we so onoontra nos Aco- ros. Dany Thompson, um nos maoieoo do Sun Ra Arkootra, ooonoolhou-os o lonmom nova Iigocoo aneo rninulos moi: lar- do. o quo vino a ooncvetiiarso. Logo do ooguoda, Dany Thomp Ion dooidiu odivinhar a vida do umo lunoionono do Gulbonluan, C0060 lOOﬂD% om dwgio gyn I000 oquiw oun doooo. v.. «A auennn nus ESTHELAS JA common» A mlnho muolco 6 oomldo porn 0 ooplrlto Sun Flo folo inintonuptomomo. D01 vozoo do |0d|Id0S- nunuoooooiodornod61o9Ao.Anoooo|odo.I|9W5"‘“"°9'_°‘”°'“ IIUKNIDIIIO pvoanmno. . _ one -oopuuwndoqnoo Dhooqno 092:0!!! ’ .—Eooojloovnooou...OINmonooovmIoIvotInIoIl|0¢II0 dooqovun.DoodooorIdoooowvv1uiIo.doodoIpIobio| n_uo|ooI.ohovIIuno6hvodo&or:quoro|otJ.QIDf°ll|l“°-glﬂ: ﬂl|.Iﬂ'ﬂU-WUXIIIVII Nddldboo guano pom] rough , E quootlo do vbt@OC._|I0 03'“ omﬁrvIu::loq\n.otovoo:'on.ni1MrIu:adoo.utot:onrmviﬁvoo¢o pIu'Ioto.Eooborv-O9“oporcobovIIo¢lU9w0'°@""'“-“"“""‘ nuioioooootvuidopotooooollilo. _lhIlI —covno;naia-.aournvonaaurn1sicaonuuvurn-ovod-rlo uir.PodotiIEoI6p6gIf:doooohovn_ornodanio1obrnir\nbo omuo ungv Ni ptoporotuvnI'obohomuoioo|.|rIt|h.aIodo-AOnootP|ooo|nThe onorgiosquonooobrigoo -—Ndo¢oha eopocboo . _mg_|;go.cor.toeopo«;uoompoIooaIo-uundrculode . quo ooh ouc mauolvo do no! 0901507‘ provoearunoionoroocoéoomloaouuolnuoloof —Poromuitossoroium|ouoo.0QU0P0U°°"'_0'"9°"“ Moonlondomosminhos copocs'dadosdocmVNV|bfI9°0S-NW3 omom a noito. duromo os onooioo do oom. campus 0"‘ '9'“ ‘ 'gdopo|os ,.‘ritos ponugueaos. Inspur 7 — Ioso ooontooo rogulonnonle. sompro que mo 6094000 I W" ._|quooquooomo7 ‘poisoumosmodontrodosalodoonono-omornconoo. —0uoIudoostdIoooovo.oooporoquoI|goIcI=MOcI-»- -Estou o proparar-mo para uma guorra interplane- (Anh- »/'- IllA—!CI.lI(A0OﬂIHl9IS for on IMMEDIATE RELEASE--(White Panther News Service) May 18, 1969 ‘ The ageless SUN RA and his fifteen-piece Astro-Infinity Arkestra will unite with the People of Ann Arbor at Cantebury House.._May 23 & 24 for a mass manifestation of revo- lutionary culture and energy that's sure to bathe the city in its vibrations for weeks to come. SUN RA, the master musician and orchestrator of cosmicsound brings with him a band the nucleus of which has been living and working together for over ten years. The Astro- lnfinity Arkestra is one of the most dedicated and highly developed forces moving for the liberation of the planet and its inhabitants from the confines of western culture and its stagnated, earth-bound forms. The Arkestra has been experiencing itself as a totally united community of musicians " for many years, and they have grown organically all along the way. Together. They are a whole new universe of sound and color, energy and motion, and theirs is a. music com- pletely unique on this planet. It is a music of the future, an utterly spaced-out free form flow of energies unexperi- enced by most earthmen. As Sun Ra says, "How many times has it been said that music ' is a language? I-want to say it agin in another way. COSMIC music is a cosmic language. Cosmic music is a plane of tomorrow, it is the dimension and the balanced perspective of tomorrow. It is the view of the living future of the living tomorrow. The music is rhythm, melody, harmony and precision. It speaks to the worlds of the greater potentials awaiting we peoples of the worlds at every future point on every future plane." ' Sun‘ Ra and his Arkestra came to the Detroit area once before, in June of 1967, for a concert at Wayne State with MC5 that left virtually everyone in the small audience sitting gunned in their seats for minutes after the performance ended. This concert which was "sored by Tr'ans—Love Energies has since been a Source of inspiration to many of the ‘tnople of the then-embryonic Detroit free community, particularly to the M_C5, whose friusic makes reference to Sun Ra’s in many ways. __ For having been together for such a long time, the Astro-Infinity Arkestra has had virtually no recognition or exposure. Their audience up to very recently_has been a small... number of loyal and dedicated followers who had to find out about Sun Ra the hard way since most of the established music critics have ignored his existenceup till now. There are . about 20 albums out of SUN RA;s music. Two on the ESP label, Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume Iand_ Volume II. All others are on the Saturn label~(P.0, Box 7124 Chicago, Illinois 60607) which has had virutally no distribution through record stores. Things are finally beginning to move, The Discount Records chain has announced A it will begin to carry the Saturn label. Look and ask especially for "Magic City," "When Angels Speal-. of Love," "Sun Song," "Sun Sound Pleasure," "Strange Strings," gr ask for a catalog. Underground radio stations are beginning to play SUN RA records on the air; and the alas“ issue of Rolling Stone features SUN RA on the cover and in a long article by John Burks. SUN RA 8: his Astro-Infinity Arkestra will perform at the Cantebury House in Ann ‘'1 r ?3 & 2.4, the weekend after their appearance at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit l the M525, and at the Ann Arbor Armory May 25. On May 30 8: 31 they will also be reatqgggq ‘ /‘(It the First Annual Detroit Rock n‘ Roll Revival at the State Fair grounds along -with ﬂerry, Dr. John, the MC5, Johnny Winter, Terry Reid, and many more. This will be 6' 5 . ~: of the most important cultural events to take place in the Detroit/Ann Arbor area in 3 Iong time. or more information contact Trans-Love Energies: 313-769-2017 or 761-3223. LY. H RN. an 3:‘ 02096 V9 'ElYll0'l'IlN 98L X00 '0'd HIIIIVHSHII V}! N08
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-05
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 06 (April, 1996)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: APRIL, 1996 R E L E M R E M W "”/.////)'//////‘/// CONVERSATION WITH JOHN GILMORE 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS OCTOBER 13, 1984 RUTHIE’S INN - BERKELEY, CA JH: I think the horn is sounding good. Real good. JG: It’s working in. It’s coming. It’s a nice sounding horn and the way it’s built. The keys are very high and you almost have to learn to play all over again. The key are very high. JH: But it’s you, You’re sounding good. JG: We’re coming into each other. The horn and I are finally . . . I’m learning . . . JH: That horn has a higher action. JG: Yeah, real high. Much higher than a normal Selmer. It'll probably strengthen your hands after a while because you’ve got to do that. They’re way up here. They’re not close like a Mark Six I had. JH: What is this? A Super Eighty? JG: The latest one. That’s where it’s at. It’s keys are very high. I’ll show you (opens case). (Demonstrates fingering on the saxophone.) JG: You have to learn how to get your touch all adjusted to it....
Show moreAPRIL, 1996 R E L E M R E M W "”/.////)'//////‘/// CONVERSATION WITH JOHN GILMORE 0 JOHN HINDS 0 PETER HINDS OCTOBER 13, 1984 RUTHIE’S INN - BERKELEY, CA JH: I think the horn is sounding good. Real good. JG: It’s working in. It’s coming. It’s a nice sounding horn and the way it’s built. The keys are very high and you almost have to learn to play all over again. The key are very high. JH: But it’s you, You’re sounding good. JG: We’re coming into each other. The horn and I are finally . . . I’m learning . . . JH: That horn has a higher action. JG: Yeah, real high. Much higher than a normal Selmer. It'll probably strengthen your hands after a while because you’ve got to do that. They’re way up here. They’re not close like a Mark Six I had. JH: What is this? A Super Eighty? JG: The latest one. That’s where it’s at. It’s keys are very high. I’ll show you (opens case). (Demonstrates fingering on the saxophone.) JG: You have to learn how to get your touch all adjusted to it. So it gets a little strange when you first play it. After awhile I guess you have to get used to it. JH: That’s a high one. You didn’t have that on your other . . . JG: No. No F#. That makes it a lot easier. Dig the height of the keys. That’s a lot of opening. A lot more than a Selmer usually has. JH: New Link up there? (Referring to the Otto Link mouthpiece.) JG: No. It’s two years old. JH: Is that a ten? JG: No. A nine. I had an eleven but it wore out. JH: Don’t your chops have to be just really . . . JG: You have to build up to it. I felt at that time because the high notes were too thin with the mouthpiece I was using. JH: So you wanted to open it up more? JG: Yeah. So the high notes are there. Because — the pressure on - will break getting those high notes and still get your low notes. With your hard reeds and open mouth- piece like that. The low notes become very difficult. JH: What kind of reed? A medium? JG: A three. JH: All right! Chops! I’ll call you Lockjaw. JG: Laughs. (Pat) Patrick had the mouthpiece open for me. First Link that I had. It final- ly wore out after twenty years. Just wouldn’t play no more. It went out of pitch. PH: How is Pat Patrick? What’s he up to? JG: I don’t know. He’s been gigging around. He’s been living in the Bronx. Last I heard he was working with a dancer friend of ours. Still playing. But I haven’t seen him in a while to see what he’s really talking about or doing. 1 PH: Who are some of the other musicians on that one hundred piece orchestra thing you did last August? JG: That was a whole bunch of cats, man. There was David Murray, Frank Lowe, Gary Bartz, John Ford, Billy Bang, John Ore, Roy Burroughs on trumpet. The trumpet player that plays with David Murray, I forget his name. JH: Butch Morris? JG: Butch Morris. He was on bass. We had six or seven bass players. Three violinists. Around three guitar players. It was mean. Kalaparusha played tenor. Zane Massey. There was about five other tenor players. Some of them I didn’t even know. About twelve alto players. Some of them I didn’t know. Turned out bad. The only instrument that was light was the trombone. There was only one trombone. Our trombone player. (Tyrone Hill). He was the only trombonist who showed up. Three vibes. three conga play- ers. Turned out real nice. JH: How was that organized? JG: Sun Ra just directed them and told them when to take their shot. And it just flowed you know. Gary Bartz started off cookin’! From there on it went. Joe Ford came in next. He was blazing some pretty stuff. Strong. No direction. It just directed itself for four and one half hours and that was it. Bam! One number. It was heavy, Jack. It was so powerful that when the sections would change, like from the trumpets to the drums where you had Rashied Ali, Steve McCall . . . Don Mumford. We had six or seven drums. The sections would change, you’d see the peoples heads going (gestures) - whoosh - as the shit would change from the trumpets to the drums to the saxophones. The shit would be so powerful . . . JH: A sea of sound. JG: Yeah! That’s what it was like. It was mean. JH: That’s incredible. You never hear that. JG: It was terrible. That’s no lie. All the cats were really enthused and enjoyed it. They were highly elated. JH: That’s a once in a lifetime thing. JG: Billy Bang and all the violinists was playing terrible shit . . . PH: Leroy Jenkins? JG: No, Leroy didn’t show. There was a girl came and played and she was the third violinist. She was bad. There was one girl on bass. About six or seven dancers. JH: I hope you guys put that out on Saturn. JG: I don’t know who recorded it. They’ve been kind of lax on the recordings lately. No real professional thing going on. There should have been, but it didn’t happen. PH: I read in, I believe it was Cadence magazine, that you were recorded at the Athens Jazz Festival on Praxis and they’re planning to release it. JG: They should. It was a mean tape. I heard the cats play some of it back. It has so much feeling and was so strong and the cat, he got it good. All the presence. It really had a lot of feeling. It was a good tape. PH: I heard the people were really going wild on that. JG: They really dug it. They said it was the strongest music they ever heard in Greece. 2 JG: I guess we will check Walter (Miller) out when we’re down in that area. We’ll probably at least call to see how he is. We’ll call him when we get near Birmingham. We thought we might be playing there but I don’t think anything came through. PH: Have you done any playing with Art Blakey since 1964? JG: No, I haven’t. Not since then. JH: Didn’t Art give you a hard time? JG: No. We just had a little difference of opinion. I had to tell him off. (Laughs) We’re good friends. PH: Who else was in the group at the time? JG: Lee Morgan, Curtis Fuller, John Hicks and Victor Sproles. It was a good band. We had a good time. That was a good year. JH: You made a lot of different recordings in that year. 1964. JG: Yeah. We made quite a few. PH: Elmo Hope. How was that session? You were only on a couple tunes. JG: Elmo was working with Philly Joe at that time and I was working with Philly quite a bit at that time. I worked with him for two years on and off. Elmo was one of his piano players. That’s how I happened to get on that record date. JH: Another great session. JG: It was. Enjoyable . . . most of the ones I’ve had have been nice. PH: The one with McCoy was . . . JG: Yeah. That was a delightful one. I haven't had an unenjoyable one at all because all the cats who were participating as leaders were capable. PH: Any Saturns going to be coming out? JG: I don’t know. Since Danny has so much business in L.A. . . . Once he gets that attended to, he can get back to the regular business. It's just a matter of that he’s been busy. His mother died and that took him through all kinds of changes. Spent most of his time in L.A. He’s missed most of the gigs. We’re using Charlies Tyler. Charles Tyler, Rashied Ali . . . Tommy Turrentine. We’ve had some good bands. The band has gener- ally been much larger than this. We’ve been carrying three trumpets and the bone. Two drummers. PH: Who are the other trumpets? JG: Roy Burrowes and Martin Banks. Both of them are bad. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA NOVEMBER 1, 1988 CONTINUED FROM ISSUE FOUR SUN RA: They ain’t got nobody capable of being president. So, they’ve got to have a prime minister. A prime minister from the living God will do the trick. And they do as told and death itself will cease and that’s it. People over there in the graveyard . . . they’re going to get out. Prime Minister can do it if he really represent the real Creator whose not like no dead people. Who send his word and say, my kingdom is not of this world and I’m a god of the living and not the dead. There you are. You use the book, I use the book . . . VOICE: Say Sunny, have you heard that man from the Ku Klux Klan call Martin Luther King, Martin Lucifer Coon? SUN RA: Lucifer? VOICE: He said Martin Lucifer Coon. SUN RA: I didn’t hear that. Martin Lucifer Coon. Coon in Hebrew . . . you spell it COOOHON . . . it means priest. They got unintelligible nigger in Hebrew, means alien, foreign and stranger. Actually, black folks are niggers here. But we do have some Russian niggers here too. You know, I made about ten years ago, I made a song in New York City and I held it back. I’m talking about Russian niggers, Chinese niggers, English niggers . . . I put it aside but I’m going to look for it and put it out there. Nigger means foreigner. And America’s full of niggers. That song is saying you ain’t got nothing but niggers over here. Don’t nobody belong here. But the Indians, maybe. Everybody else is a nigger. So I break that stuff up talking niggers. Now, all they got to do is go back there in Hebrew and see (that) nigger means foreigner, alien, stranger. And black folks are strangers here. But so are the Russians. That’s why they’re going back home. The Jews are strangers in every land. That’s what the Russian leaders said. That they got more Jews over in Russia than any other country that don’t nobody else want them. France don’t want them. SRR NUMBER SIX — Published five times in 1996—Subscription: $15.00 for five issues; $3.00 single issue. Back issues: $3.00. OVERSEAS: $4.00 Single issue. Back issues: $4.00. Subscription: $20.00 for five issues. Edited by Peter Hinds© 1996. Omni Press, P.O. Box 786, Millbrae, CA 94030 Inside front cover photo of Walter Miller by Peter Hinds, 1981. Back cover photo of Sun Ra and Ra Amen by Peter Hinds, 1984. 16 Nisan 1990 Pazartesi Caz tarihinin ayk1r1 isimlerinden piyanist Sun Ra ve ﬁnlii Arkestra’s1 diin istanbul’da iki konser Verdi Kﬂrsat Basar Ad]: Sun Ra. Dogum Yeri: Lupi- ter, (icinden). Dogum‘Tarihi: Soy- lemiyor. Giirevi: Dunyayl aydmlat- mak. Meslegiz Muzisyen. 50’li ynllann sonlannda beyazla- rm da <;ald1g| ve gitgide kalnplasan cam, ihtiyam olan taze kam yinc si- yah ve gem; milzisyenler getirdi. Bunlardan biri dc free-jazz olarak amlan tarzm ilk Orneklerini veren piyanist Sun Ra’ydn. S_un Rn bugun 70 yasnmn i)stun- de, yaldaslk 35 ynldnr Arkestra adi- m verdigi topluluguyla causnyor. Toplulugun uyeleri komiln hayat: sijruyor vc sanatcxmn deyimiyle “Diinyadaki en iyi yerde. Ra Ha- pishanesi’nde" ya51yorlar_ Sun Ra her zaman gercek adxm ve Alabama'da 20’lerin sonlannda dogdugunu reddediyor; uzaydan geldigini ve milzigiyle bu kbtﬁluk dolu dunyaya mesajlar tasxdngmi soyluyor. Ucaktan kafasmda kalpagn, us- tunde panter desenli giysisiyle in- dikten sonra konusuyorum Sun Ra’yla. Hicbir soruya karsnhk ver- miyor, gercekten dc bu dilnyayla hicbir iliskisi yokmus gibi kendi séz dizimini kuruyor. Hiq tammad1g1- mz insanlardan, bir konserden 56- zederken birdenbire Eski M1s1r’a geciyor. dusuk bir sesle uzun cum- leler kuruyor, elinde egri bugru. Afrikah buyﬁculcrinkine benzcr asasx... Sonra bir kamyona binip cala- rak Beyog|u’ndan geciyorlar, ka- labahk bu ilginc toplulugu izliyor, I-‘fayrettin Saganak ' ~_ -. L .._..__..__ ‘ __.._- évLEriKiEK IZNE BAGLl- Sun Ra, rkestra'|p1b-1‘n iiyelerini bazen sabahﬁm 3’iinde yataklanndan kaldmyor, yasamlanm sulu bir disiplin altmda tutuyor, evlenmeleri bile onun iznine bagh. kimileri onun hangi Afrika ulkesi- nin krah oldugunu soruyor. “Ba- ba bir Lambada cal da oynaya- l|m"diyenler, Yahu bu herif Cingene" diycnlcr, ya da bir bi¢im- de tahunda ocvresini selamlayan bu ‘biiyiik sef”i, bu ilginc; ‘ziyarct¢;i'- yi hayranhkla izleyenler... Caz tarihinin bu muhtcsem big- band’i ynllardxr birarada <;al1sma- nm gctirdigi uyum icindeler. Her konserleri bir solene ddniisﬂyor. Danslar, haykmslar. tamtamlar, cnlgm giysiler izleycnleri yerlerin- den flrlauyor. Elektronik tuslu cal- gnlann ustadn Sun Ra konustugu gi- bi daldan dala atlayarak calmxyor ama Arkestn'nm ilyelcri caz tari- hinde dev adnmlarla yapnlan bu ge- zintiye ahsxklar. Sun Ra, “Kilns: bir gecede bii- J1'ipiter’den gelen bir Caz tanr1s1 tun bir caz tarihini dinleyemez, biz izleyiciye bunu veriyoruz" diyor. Cogu kimse uzaydan geldigini soylcyen bu yash adama guluyor, ama kendi deyisiyle “k6tii|iik|e, ncfretlc ve zuliimlc do|u" 'ou dun- " yaya yakxsmadngx halinden belli. SIDDETE KARSI SEVGL Tahuna kurulmus bir kral gibi. Sun Ra, “Insan- lnr diinyadald iyi scyleri rcddediyorlu. Siddete karsl olan ve sevgiden s62 eden ,’ $1.‘: ' : nwa. - - -~b. insanlar yetistirmek col: giig. Yetigtigi zaman da diinya onu yok ediyor, Mar- un Luther King gibi” diyor, 0 Sun Rain De Oosterpoart in Graningen. Zondag staat hij in he! Stadspark. (Faro: Sem van Geider) 0£0V6 V3 '3V!lﬂ'l'llN 98L X08 '0'd namsau Vi! N118
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-06
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 08 (September, 1996)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1996-09-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: _l H G H E U S 5 SEPTEMBER. 1996 CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS,AND PETER HINDS. OAKLAND,CA...MAY 3,1990... CHRIS CAPERS:THE OTHER THING THAT I'M REALLY,THE TWO THINGS THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT,AND JOTHAN (CALLINS) SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO BUT JOTHAN DIDN'T GET AROUND TO DOING IT,IS REALLY WRITE THE BOOK ON SONNY.THAT'S THE OTHER THING BECAUSE,YOU KNOW, FROM EVERY ONE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND HIM AND THROUGH THE BAND THAT'S AN ENOURMOUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND PERSPECTIVE THAT WE HAVE TOWARD HIM.A LOT OF PERSONAL STUFF BUT AT THE SAME TIME... SUN RA:UNINTELLIGIBLE IN THE OFFICE...AND JOTHAN COULDN'T FIND IT.A LOT OF POEMS AND THINGS THAT WERE VERY IMPORTANT.THEY LOOKED EVERYWHERE.THEY COULDN'T FIND IT. CC:YOU'RE SAYING JOTHAN STARTED IT? SR:NO.HE WAS LOOKING FOR IT FOR ME. CC:WAIT A MINUTE.WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN?'CAUSE I WAS TALKING ABOUT A BOOK BEING WRITTEN ABOUT... SR:IT'S ALREADY WRITTEN.I KEPT A DIARY,YOU ...
Show more_l H G H E U S 5 SEPTEMBER. 1996 CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS,AND PETER HINDS. OAKLAND,CA...MAY 3,1990... CHRIS CAPERS:THE OTHER THING THAT I'M REALLY,THE TWO THINGS THAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT,AND JOTHAN (CALLINS) SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO BUT JOTHAN DIDN'T GET AROUND TO DOING IT,IS REALLY WRITE THE BOOK ON SONNY.THAT'S THE OTHER THING BECAUSE,YOU KNOW, FROM EVERY ONE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND HIM AND THROUGH THE BAND THAT'S AN ENOURMOUS AMOUNT OF INFORMATION AND PERSPECTIVE THAT WE HAVE TOWARD HIM.A LOT OF PERSONAL STUFF BUT AT THE SAME TIME... SUN RA:UNINTELLIGIBLE IN THE OFFICE...AND JOTHAN COULDN'T FIND IT.A LOT OF POEMS AND THINGS THAT WERE VERY IMPORTANT.THEY LOOKED EVERYWHERE.THEY COULDN'T FIND IT. CC:YOU'RE SAYING JOTHAN STARTED IT? SR:NO.HE WAS LOOKING FOR IT FOR ME. CC:WAIT A MINUTE.WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN?'CAUSE I WAS TALKING ABOUT A BOOK BEING WRITTEN ABOUT... SR:IT'S ALREADY WRITTEN.I KEPT A DIARY,YOU KNOW.THEY CAN'T FIND IT. CC:OH!YOU HAD A DIARY DONE ALREADY.YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?SOMEBODY STOLE IT AND EVERYTHING IS GOING TO COME OUT.SEE, THE OTHER THING IS TO HAVE THAT MUSIC THAT HE HAS PUBLISHED AND SOLD.SO THAT WAY A LOT OF PEOPLE...IT CAN BE PLAYED FROM...EVERY- ONE FROM KIDS TO SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA. SR:CAN'T BE DOING IT.I DELIBERATELY DESTROYED IT SO IT WOULDN'T EVER BE DONE.WHOEVER MISSED THAT I DID IT DELIBERATELY.'CAUSE THEY DIDN'T TREAT ME RIGHT SO THEY CAN'T.THEY'LL NEVER HAVE IT. IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY THAT'S GONE SINCE THEY WOULDN'T PAY ME.SO I DID A CURSE.I DESTROYED IT.SO I WOULDN'T HAVE IT. CC:YOU DON'T WANT THE MUSIC PUBLISHED? SR:NO!I DON'T WANT IT OUT THERE.I DON'T WANT NOBODY TO HEAR IT. THAT'S 'CAUSE IT'S SPIRIT MUSIC.IT EVEN DEALS IN IMMORTALITY. I DON'T FEEL FOLKS HAVE A RIGHT TO THAT.THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE FOREVER SO THEY DON'T NEED TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT I KNOW.THEY DON'T NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT.'CAUSE THEY DON'T DESERVE IT...I'M NOT INTERESTED IN HUMANITY NO MORE.IF I HAD MY WAY I UNINTELLIGIBLE AND BLOW IT UP.I'D BLOW UP...PUSH THE BUTTON.GET RID OF THE WHOLE PLANET 'CAUSE AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED IT'S A WASTE OF TIME.I'VE SEEN THEM KILL TOO MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE WORTH- WHILE. CC:I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING SONNY AND PARTIALLY I AGREE WITH YOU.BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THIS IS GOING TO BE HERE.AND WHAT YOU GOT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IT'S GOING TO HELP. SR:I DON'T WANT TO HELP THIS PLANET.I WANT TO FORGET I EVER KNEW ABOUT IT. CC:THAT'S SOMETHING JUNE(TYSON)AND I SPOKE ABOUT.JUNE SAYS SHE'S READY TO LEAVE AND I SAID I'M.READY TO LEAVE,TOO. SR:DID YOU SEE THAT PICTURE?THAT'S A PICTURE THEY HAVE NOT SEEN. JOHN HINDS:I HOPE YOU GET OUT ALIVE. SR:YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THAT PICTURE,HAVE YOU. CC:WHAT'S THAT?WHICH ONE? SR:IN THE PICTURE I WALKED TOWARD THE SEASHORE AND YOU SAW MY FOOT PRINTS AND THEN THE WAVES CAME AND BRUSHED THE FOOT PRINTS OUT.I MADE IT IN NEW YORK.A SEMI—DOCUMENTARY. PH:IS THIS A VIDEO?OR PHOTOGRAPHS? SR:IT WAS A MOVIE. CC:I THINK I REMEMBER IT VAGUELY.IT'S COMING BACK TO ME. SR:AND I WALKED TOWARD THE SEASHORE.YOU SAW THE FOOT PRINTS AND THEN THE WAVES CAME AND BRUSHED OUT THE FOOT PRINTS SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. CC:YOU DID IT IN THE 70's? BACK THERE SOME TIME.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF THE MOVIE. THERE'S ANOTHER THING THEY CAN'T TRACE UP.AND ALSO THERE'S A RADIO PLAY,TOO.I WROTE THE MUSIC TO THAT.A PLAY CALLED A STRANGER. PH:WHEN WAS THAT? SR:ABOUT '69 OR SOMETHINB LIKE THAT.A RADIO PRODUCTION CALLED THE STRANGER. PH:IS THAT THE STRANGER BY ALBERT CAMUS? SR:IT WASN'T NO PRAGRAM.IT WAS A SPECIAL GOVRNMENT SPONSORED MOVIE.NEW YORK CITY.STATE OF NEW YORK.THAT'S LOST,TOO.THERE'S A LOT OF GAPS IN THERE.SO I COULDN'T EVEN BEGIN TO TELL THE THINGS THAT(ARE)MISSING. ' JH:DIDN'T YOU WRITE SOME THINGS FOR BASIE IN THE 40'S? SOMETHING FOR A FLOOR SHOW OR SOMETHING. SR:NO.FLETCHER... JH:I KNOW.THE DELISA. BUT I THOUGHT I HEARD AT ONE POINT THAT YOU DID SOMETHING WITH BASIE ON SOME PROGRAM THAT HE WAS ON. SR:I WROTE SOME THINGS WITH CLARENCE WILLIAMS Anp HE WAY BACK THERE.BUT HE STOLE IT,THOUGH. JH:NOW,YOU'VE GOT TO WONDER WHERE THAT STUFF IS;TOO. SR:MY FIRST COMPOSITION WAS SENT TO HIM AND HE STOLE THEM. CC:WHO'S THAT?CLARENCE WILLIAMS? SR:ONE OF THEM WAS NAMED CHOCOLATE AVENUE.BUT THEY DON'T PAY THE ¥g§$C NOW.SO YOU'D HAVE TO REALLY HAVE TO RESEARCH IT TO FIND JH:YOU'RE NOT KIDDING.I HAVE ONE OF HIS ALBUMS. .SR:THEN I'VE GOT SEVERAL PSEUDONYMS,TOO.SO THEY REALLY CAN'T TRACE.I GOT A LOT OF SONGS OUT THERE WITH OTHER NAMES.SEVERAL NAMES. JH:CAN YOU REMEMBER THOSE NAMES? CC:HE AIN'T GOING TO TELL US TODAY. SR:I DELIBERATELY HID IT.SO THEY WOULDN'T KNOW.'CAUSE I KNEW NO ONE WAS GOING TO TREAT ME RIGHT ON THIS PLANET.SO I TOOK EVERY- THING AND JUST HID IT.THEY DID EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT THEY WAS GOING TO DO.SO I WAS TRYING TO PLAY THE LOW PROFILE AND MY BEST MUSIC HAS NEVER BEEN PUT ON A RECORD.IT'S NOT ON A RECORD.THAT'S WHAT MICHAEL ANDERSON WAS TRYING TO DO 'CAUSE HE KNOW THAT.HE'S TRYING TO PUT IT TOGETHER. CC:MICHAEL WHO? SR:MICHAEL ANDERSON.HE GOT A RADIO SHOW IN NEW JERSEY.HE THE ONLY ONE TO PLAY MY MUSIC CONSISTENTLY. CC:WHAT PART OF NEW JERSEY? SR:SOMEWHERE IN NEW JERSEY.HE HAS A SPECIAL JAZZ SHOW.HE PLAYED WITH THE BAND,TOO,AT ONE TIME.PLAYED DRUMS. CC:THAT'S WHEN RODNEY WAS IN THERE?RONALD WAS IN THERE? SR:I DON"T EVEN REMEMBER.I KNOW HE PLAYED WITH US.JOHN(GILMORE) KNOWS THOSE THINGS. JH:THAT WOULD BE QUITE A LIST TO DRAW UP ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WHO HAVE PLAYED WITH YOU. CC:IT'S ENOURMOUS.' JH:ALMOST NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ALL THESE PEOPLE 'CAUSE I KEEP HEARING ABOUT... CC:ROLAND KIRK WAS IN THE BAND.PHAROAH SANDERS WAS IN THE BAND. JH:I KNOW THAT.BUT ROLAND KIRK?I NEVER HEARD OF THAT. SR:HE NEVER WAS IN THIS BAND. CC:ROLAND WASN'T IN THIS BAND? SR:NO. CC:IN CHICAGO?HE WASN'T IN THE... SR:DIFFERENT DIMENSION.HE WASN'T IN THIS BAND. JH:NEVER PLAYED WITH YOU. SR:NO. CC:I THOUGHT I HEARD THAT IN THE SIXTIES WHEN YOU WAS ON THIRD STREET... SR:N0.0NE TIME HE DELIBERATELY JUMPED UP THERE TO STOP US.TO PLAY AND JAM WITH US.THAT WAS IN NEW YORK CITY.HE WANTED TO STOP US 'CAUSE,YOU KNOW,THE CROWD WAS LIKING US SO HE JUMPED UP THERE,GOT ON THE MICROPHONE AND JUST TOOK...IN TO THE SHOW. CC:I HEARD YOU ALL TALKING ABOUT IT. SR:BUT HE DIDN'T GET UP THERE FOR UNINTELLIGIBLE.HE JUST JUMPED UP THERE 'CAUSE HE WAS...AT THE VANGUARD,I THINK...SOMEPLACE. CC:'CAUSE I REMEMBER THAT FROM THE SIXTIES.ROLAND KIRK SAYING HE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE BAND.I THOUGHT HE WAS IN THE BAND. HE WASN'T IN CHICAGO WITH YOU? SR:DIFFERENT DIMENSION.HE WAS AN EARTHMAN.I DON'T HAVE NO EARTHMEN IN MY BAND.EVERYBODY IN MY BAND WAS CAREFULLY CHOSEN FOR THE SPIRIT CONTENT OF THE FUTURE.HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY...HE EVEN TRIED TO STEAL MY NAME UNINTELLIGIBLE.CALLED HIMSELF RAHSHAAN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.AND COLTRANE CAME ALONG AND HE TRIED TO STEAL IT,TOO.BUT THIS IS SPIRIT MUSIC.IT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR THEM TO DO THAT.IT'S QUITE DANGEROUS.OPEN THEIR MINDS UP TO AVENUES OF DANGER WHERE THEY CAN'T CONTROL IT. CC:THAT'S FOR CERTAIN!(LAUGHS) JH:UNFORTUNATELY,THEY'RE BOTH GONE AND THAT SAYS SOMETHING I GUESS. ‘ CC:AND SONNY STILL BE A KICKIN',RIGHT? SR;I'M STILL TRYING TO PLAY MY LOW PROFILE.IT'S THE ONLY FUTURE THAT I WANT.BECAUSE ALL THESE TAPES THAT THE WORLD SHOULD HEAR THAY WILL NEVER HEAR THEM.IN THE FIRST PLACE,ABRAHAM (ALTON ABRAHAM)GOT A LOT OF THEM LOCKED UP IN A VAULT. HE WON'T EVEN GIVE THEM TO ME.HE SAY I DON'T NEED THEM...DON'T DESERVE TO HEAR THEM.AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT BANK THEY IN. JH:AT LEAST THEY'RE SAFE,I GUESS.YOU WOULD WANT TO HEAR THEM YOURSELF. SR:I DON'T THINK THAT WAY NO MORE.THE WORLD AIN'T LIKE WHAT I'D LIKE FOR IT TO BE.IT AIN'T WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS.IF I HAD KNOWN WHAT IT WAS I NEVER WOULD HAVE PLAYED.PERSONALLY,I THINK THAT JESUS DECIDED HE WOULD RATHER BE DEAD THAN HAVE CONTROL OF THIS PLANET.I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE DID.WHEN HE SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING..THE WHOLE WORLD...THEM PEOPLE WAS READY TO PUT PALMS IN HIS PATH AND EVERYTHING TO MAKE HIM KING.HE PREFERRED TO GO TO THE CROSS 'CAUSE HE FELT IT WASN'T WORTHWHILE TO DO NOTHIN' LIKE THAT.I THINK THEY GOT THE WHOLE THING WRONG.HE DELIBERATELY COMMITTED SUICIDE.HE FIGURED IT WAS BETTER TO BE DEAD THAN TO HAVE CONTROL OF PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WASN'T RIGHT.THEN THEY TURN IT AROUND LIKE HE DIED TO SAVE SINNERS.BUT UNINTELLIGIBLE HE DIED TO GET AWAY FROM THEM.ANYWAY,IT'S THEIR WORLD.AIN'T NONE OF GOD'S WORLD.AIN'T NONE OF SATAN'S WORLD.NEITHER WANT IT. CC:THAT'S WHAT I SAID THE OTHER...I WAS SAYING THE OTHER DAY.I SAID EVEN SATAN WENT UP TO HEAVEN AND GOD WENT DOWN TO HELL AND THEY LEFT THIS SUCKER. SR:I CAN'T FIND A COPY OF THAT PAPER Y'ALL GAVE ME ABOUT THE BLACK BONES. PH:I'LL BRING ONE TOMORROW.I'VE GOT A FEW AT HOME. CC:WHAT WAS THAT? PH:IT WAS AN ARTICLE I SAW IN THE PAPER TWO OR THREE DAYS AGO AND,APPARENTLY,BLACK MEN ARE BEST SUITED FOR LONG SPACE TRAVEL. FOR INSTANCE,GOING TO MARS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. CC:I FIGURE THIS.DON'T TAKE IT OFFENSIVELY BUT THEY PROBOBLY SET- TING US UP TO DO THE DIRTY WORK. JH:YOU GOTTA BE WARY ABOUT THAT. CC:THE OTHER THING,AS HE SAID,WE ALL SPACE PEOPLE. PH:THEY'RE DOING SOME TESTS DOWN THERE IN HOUSTON WHERE THEY'RE GIVING WHITE MEN...IT SAID WOMEN,DUE TO BONE STRUCTURE,AREN'T GOOD FOR LONG... CC:I KNOW THEY WERE SAYING YOUNG BLACK MEN.I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT IN THE CAR WHEN YOU(SUN RA)WAS SLEEPING.WHEN WE WAS GOING FROM PORTLAND FROM SEATTLE.I WAS TALKING WITH ELSON(NASCIAMENTO), TELLING ELSON,FRED AND CURTIS(ROCK)ABOUT IT. PH:SO NOW THEY'RE ALL WORRIED.THEY'RE TRYING TO GET A DRUG SO THEY CAN SEND SOME WHITE PEOPLE TO MARS.(CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS BREAK IN TO LAUGHTER.) CONVERSATION WITH CHRIS CAPERS,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS........ OAKLAND,CA...MAY 3,1990... CHRIS CAPERS:I THINK I TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE.I DIDN'T COME UP PLAYING AVANTE—GARDE.I WENT THROUGH THE REGULAR TRADITIONAL THINGS.DIZ WAS REALLY MY MAIN INFLUENCE AND BROWNIE WAS SECON- DARY.SO I LISTENED TO A LOT OF THEIR SOLOS.AFTER I LEFT SONNY, YOU GET STIGMATIZED IN WORKING THE AVANTE—GARDE.I BECAME PRONE TO WORKING WITH A LOT OF THEM. JOHN HINDS:WHO ELSE HAVE YOU WORKED WITH?ARCHIE SHEPP? CC:NO.I MISSED SEVERAL GIGS.ARCHIE WANTED ME IN HIS BAND.I'M GOING BACK TO THE SIXTIES,NOW.HE WANTED ME IN THE BAND BUT WE NEVER REALLY HOOKED UP.I ALWAYS,SOMEHOW,MISSED A REHEARSAL OR HE MISSED A DATE TO GET ME TO DO A REHEARSAL WHEN HE WAS JUST COMING OUT.SO THE GUYS THAT I EVENTUALLY ENDED UP WORKING WITH, AFTER I LEFT SONNY,WAS MAINLY PHAROAH SANDERS,DEWWY REDMAN, SONNY RED,RASHIED ALI...I HAVE QUITE A FEW RECORDINGS WITH RASHIED ALI THAT DIDN'T COME OUT.WITH SONNY MURRAY AND PHAROAH... THERE ARE THINGS ON COLUMBIA AND IMPULSE THAT THEY DIDN'T RELEASE.IT WAS A JOHN HAMOND PRODUCTION.AND EVEN ON TOP OF THAT JOHN HAMOND WANTED TO BRING ME IN THERE TO RECORD.BUT IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.ON THAT THING WITH COLUMBIA...A LOT OF GUYS WAS ON THERE.DEWEY WAS ON THERE...DON PULLEN,JUNIE BOOTH...THE OTHER MAJOR DATE WAS WITH PHAROAH.I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ON HIS SECOND RECORD DATE AND I MISSED THAT BECAUSE I THEN BECAME INVOLVED WITH THE UNINTELLIGIBLE YOUTH BAND.AND I WAS REALLY TOO OLD FOR THE BAND BUT I LOOKED YOUNG AS YOU CAN SEE.THEY WERE TAKING THE GUYS IN ABOUT EIGHTEEN OR NINETTEN.SO I WAS TWENTY SIX WHEN I WENT IN THERE.THEY WERE ONLY DEALING WITH YOUNG GUYS.'CAUSE REED TAYLOR LIKED ME AND I GOT INTO THE BAND 'CAUSE I COULD SOLO BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THERE.BUT I WENT IN THERE FOR SECTION WORK,READING.BECAUSE I HAD NO SECTION WORK PLAYING FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME.SO THAT'S WHY I WENT IN THERE AND IT WAS A STIPEND.SO I GOT THE STIPEND AND I MISSED THE REHEARSAL WITH PHAROAH AND HE WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT IT.HE WAS ACTUALLY MAD.I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE FOR THESE REHEARSALS AND MAKE THE DATE WITH HIM AND I REALLY WANTED TO MAKE THE DATE WITH HIM 'CAUSE HE WAS GETTING POPULAR THEN.SO THAT BLEW (IT) FOR ME.THAT WENT DOWN THE TUBES FOR ME.AND THEN LATER ON,ABOUT THE 70'S,EARLY 70'S,HE CALLED ME IN TO DO A DATE AND THE GRUBB BROTHERS WAS ON THERE.CECIL MCBEE WAS ON THE DATE.WHO WAS THE OTHER ALTO PLAYER? PETER HINDS:BYARD LANCASTER? CC:NO,BYARD WASN'T ON IT.I WORKED IN A BAND WITH BYARD LANCASTER...THAT WAS TED DANIEL'S BAND ENERGY.I WENT INTO THAT BAND AFTER I LEFT SONNY IN 76.1 WORKED IN THAT BAND FOR JUST MONDAY NIGHTS.ONE OF MY MAIN PROBLEMS WAS THAT I WAS BURNED OUT. JH:TRAVELLING? CC:NO.I WAS BURNED OUT WHEN I WENT WITH HIM(SUN RA).I CAN GET TO THAT.THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.WHAT HAPPENED WAS WHEN ON PHAROAH'S DATE WITH IMPULSE... A PH:SECOND ALBUM? CC:NO.HOWEVER,THE THREE OF US ENDED UP DOING JUST A TRACK TOGETHER.SO IT WAS PHAROAH,WOODY(SHAW),AND MYSELF.WE WERE ALL PLAYING TOGETHER.PHAROAH TOLD ME.HE SAID IT WASN'T COMPLETED OR SOMETHING.I HAVE NO IDEA.SO THE ONLY THINGS I RECORDED CAME OUT WITH SONNY. PH:WHERE DID YOU FIRST HEAR OF SUN RA? CC:PHAROAH...SEE I WAS LIVING AT TRANE'S(JOHN COLTRANE).I KNEW TRANE.AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS... PH;WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? CC:I MET JOHN AT COPA CITY.FIRST TIME I SAW HIM I WAS ABOUT SEVENTEEN,EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.THREE FRIENDS OF US...WE WENT DOWNTOWN TO HEAR SOME JAZZ.THIS IS ABOUT 57,58.57 I THINK.I'M ORIGINALLY A REED PLAYER.I STARTED ON CLARINET,FLUTE AND ALTO AND AT THAT TIME I WAS STILL PLAYING CLARINET WHEN I FIRST SAW JOHN.BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS...I WENT OVER TO THE CIRCLE IN THE END(?)TO HEAR GERRY MULLIGAN AND TWO OF MY FRIENDS WENT TO HEAR MILES AND THEN AFTER GERRY MULLIGAN I FLEW OVER TO THE VANGUARD AND I CAME IN JUST ON THE TAIL END OF THE LAST SET ON THE LAST NUMBER AND THAT'S WHEN I FIRST SAW TRANE.THEN I MET HIM AT COPA CITY ABOUT TWO YEARS LATER,I THINK.I WAS ALREADY INTO PLAYING TRUMPET THEN.WHAT I ENDED UP DOING WAS I ALWAYS WANTED TO PLAY TRUMPET 'CAUSE I WAS INFLUENCED BY LOUIS ARMSTRONG.AND I COULDN'T GET A HOLD OF AN INSTRUMENT SO WHAT I DID...I OPTED FOR WHAT I COULD GET MY HANDS ON.MY MOTHER BOUGHT ME THE CLARINET.AND I WAS MAKING SESSIONS ON THE ALTO SAX.I WAS PROFICIENT IN THE INSTRUMENT TO GET AROUND IT BUT I STILL NEEDED TO KNOW EACH AND EVERY SCALE BECAUSE THE CLARINET GAVE ME THE PROFICIENCY.THEN I HAD TO GET INTO MY CHANGES.SO I WAS MAKING A FEW SESSIONS ON ALTO BUT WHO I WAS HANGING OUT WITH KEPT PUSHING ME AND PUSHING ME SO I WENT IN MIDSTREAM...AND WENT TO TRUMPET WHEN I WAS EIGHTEEN, NINETEEN TEARS OLD WHICH WAS LATE.SO I LOOKED AT THIS AND I SAID, 'DAMN,I'M NOT GROING TO BE OUT HERE PLAYING 'TILL I'M ABOUT TWENTY SEVEN OR SO.SO WHAT I DID WAS PRACTICE LIKE A MANIAC.I PRACTICED LIKE A DAMN FOOL.I WAS LIVING AT TRANE'S.I COULD PRACTICE ANY TIME I WANT. JH:WHERE WAS HE LIVING? CC:HE WAS LIVING IN QUEENS ON MEXICO STREET.I LIVED ON QUEENS OVER IN SPRINGFIELD GARDENS AND HE LIVED OVER IN ST.ALBANS.NOT THAT FAR APART.AND I MET HIM BY WORKING IN BLOOMINGDALE'S PART TIME AND HIS WIFE'S NEICE,BETTY,WORKED IN BLOOMINGDALE'S.AND GETTING TO KNOW HER...I WOULD GO BY HER HOUSE AND THEN ONE DAY NAIMA SHOWED UP.I DIDN'T KNOW SHE WAS TRANE'S WIFE AND SHE SAID COME ON TO THE HOUSE.WHEN HE CAME OFF THE ROAD I MET HIM OFFICIALLY 'CAUSE I HAD SPOKEN TO HIM AT COPA CITY BRIEFLY. BUT NOW I MET HIM OFFICIALLY,IN HIS HOUSE WITH ERIC DOLPHY. I'M YOUNG,TWENTY,TWENTY ONE AND IF I WAS PLAYING ERIC AND MARSHALL(ALLEN)WOULD HAVE BEEN MY INFLUENCES. PH.THIS WAS 61? CC:YEAH.50,61. JH:DID YOU KNOW ERIC DOLPHY VERY WELL? CC:AFTER MEETING HIM AT TRANE'S I GOT TO KNOW HIM WELL.I USED TO HANG OUT WITH HIM.A COUPLE TIMES HE USED TO TAKE ME AROUND. CLIFFORD JORDAN'S HOUSE...SO WE(JOHN COLTRANE)EVENTUALLY GOT CLOSE.SO WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER I SHOULD CHAUFFEUR THE BAND OR STAY AT THE HOUSE WITH NEET(?)AND TONY. THAT WAS NEET'S DAUGHTER.NOT HIS DAUGHTER.NEET-DIDN'T HAVE NO KIDS WITH HIM.THAT'S HOW ALICE GOT INTO THE PICTURE.THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THE BOOK THAT WAS OUT OF IT BE- CAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT CAME THERE TO THE HOUSE AND WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK AND NEET TOLD THEM TO SPEAK TO ME AND AIN'T A DAMN ONE OF THEM SAID A WORD TO ME.IT CAME ALL DOWN TO...HE'S INSIGNIFICANT.I'M NOT A BIG NAME.I'M A STRUGGLING TRUMPET PLAYER. THEY JUST PASSED ME BY AND STILL HELD CONVERSATIONS WITH HER. AND SHE TOLD THEM SPECIFICALLY;'YOU-WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JOHN? TALK TO HIM.'YOU SEE,THE THING IS,SHE TOLD ME A LOT OF PERSONAL THINGS.AND I SPENT TIME WITH HIM TALKING AND A GREAT DEAL MORE TIME WITH HER(TALKING)ABOUT HIM AND A WHOLE LOT OF STORIES IN THE BUSINESS.SO THEY BLEW(IT).STORIES ABOUT MILES AND JOHN LEAVING THE BAND.HOWEVER,I WAS ABLE TO PRACTICE ANY TIME I WANTED TO PRACTICE.FIRST IT WAS A LITTLE FUNNY.HE DECIDED THAT I WOULD STAY THERE AT THE HOUSE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MAN AROUND. THERE WAS NO MALE PERSON AROUND WHEN HE WAS OUT OF TOWN AND HE WAS OUT OF TOWN FOR TWO,THREE MONTHS.HE WAS ON THE ROAD.BOOKED. FOUR HOURS.EIGHT HOURS.SIX HOURS. I WAS DOING IT(PRACTICING). 'CAUSE I WAS TRYING TO PLAY CATCH UP.AND WHEN HE CAME HOME I WOULDN'T PRACTICE.I WAS SCARED THE FIRST TIME.SO NEET CALLED ME IN THE KITCHEN AND SAID,'LOOK.YOU EITHER GOING TO PLAY THAT HORN OR GET OUT OF HERE.'AND I SAID,'JOHN IS HERE.'SHE SAID,'THAT AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.'IN A SENSE SHE WAS SAYING TO ME HE KNOWS WHERE YOU'RE AT.SO JUST GO ON AND PRACTICE AND, BASICALLY,I WOULD PRACTICE WHEN HE WAS THERE.I WOULD JUST GO INTO THE BASEMENT,MAYBE,AND PUT THE MUTE IN THE HORN AND PRACTICE BECAUSE,I KNOW YOU'RE TAPING THIS,RIGHT? JH:OH YEAH.SURE. CC:WHEN HE CAME HOME HE WENT STRAIGHT UPSTAIRS AND PRACTICED ALL DAY LONG.SEE,HE HAD SOMETHING...HIM AND SONNY HAD SOMETHING SIMILAR.WHERE SONNY WOULD REHEARSE YOU FROM EIGHT IN THE MORNING UNTILL TWELVE AT MIDNIGHT JOHN WOULD PRACTICE FROM EIGHT OR NINE IN THE MORNING UNTILL IT WAS TIME FOR HIM TO GO TO THE GIG AND I'M NOT LYING!I SAW IT AND HEARD IT.I HEARD HIM PRACTICE THINGS THAT LEFT ME BAFFLED FOR A WHILE UNTILL I USED TO SIT OUT THERE IN THE BACK STEPS OF THE GARDEN AND HE WOULD BE IN THE BACK BED- ROOM PRACTICING AND I WOULD JUST SIT AND I WOULD JUST SIT AND LISTEN TO HIM.I'D SAY,'WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING?"CAUSE HE WOULD STAY UP THERE AND...(SINGS)HE WOULD DO(SINGS)FOR A WHOLE HALF HOUR,HE WAS DOING TWO THINGS.HE WAS EXERCISING FINGERS.HE WAS EXERCISING PITCH AND TONE AND RUNNING A LINE AND THINKINK ABOUT WHAT OTHER LINES WOULD RUN INTO THAT.HOW I FOUND OUT...EVERY TIME HE WOULD COME IN TO TOWN I WOULD GO TO THE FIRST GIG WITH HIM AND THE LAST ONE AND I WOULD HEAR THE SAME LINES CONNECTING UP.SO WHEN GUYS LIKE...I HEAR OTHER GUYS SAY THEY DON'T PLAY THE SAME THING OVER AGAIN.AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A VARIATION ON THAT THING WHETHER IT'S A TWO BAR REPEAT OR A ONE BAR PHRASE YOU RUN.YOU'RE GOING TO REPEAT IT SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE LINE.AND IT'S DONE.I'VE HEARD HIM DO IT FROM PRACTICING.GOING UP ON THE BAND- STAND AND DOING IT.'CAUSE I WAS THERE AT THE HOUSE WHERE I COULD LISTEN.AND I WAS THE ONLY ONE AT THE HOUSE THERE.HOW I MET SONNY IS...JOHN BROUGHT PHAROAH BACK FROM CALIFORNIA.I CAME UP ‘CAUSE I WOULD EITHER SLEEP IN THE BASEMENT...BASICALLY,THAT'S WHERE I SLEPT.IN THE BASEMENT...WHEN THEY SEPERATED.WHEN HE FINALLY LEFT NEET,I TOOK THE SMALL ROOM UPSTAIRS.BUT I SLEPT IN THE BASEMENT AND WHEN I CAME UP OUT OF THE BASEMENT I SEE THIS GUY LAYING ON THE COUCH.I SAID,'OH,HELL!WHO THE HELL IS JOHN BRINGING HERE?' BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD COME AROUND AND HANG AROUND AND HE WAS A NICE GUY LIKE THAT.THEY WOULD COME AND HANG AROUND AND SO I SAID,'WELL,I GUESS I GOT TO DEAL WITH THIS.'AND IT WAS PHAROAH! PHAROAH SANDERS!SO I DON'T NEED TO GO ANY FURTHER FROM THERE. WE GOT TO MEET AND TALK AND TOLD HIM WHERE I WAS AND HE WAS AND HE WAS BASICALLY,I FELT,AHEAD OF ME ON HIS HORN THAN I WAS ON MINE.BUT I WAS ON HIS ASS COMING UP BECAUSE I WAS PRACTICING EVERY DAY DOING IT...AND THE AVANTE-GARDE THING WAS BEGINNING TO COME MORE INTO PROMINENCE.IT WAS JUST BEGINNING TO DEVELOP'CAUSE I REMEMBER I SAT IN WITH HANK MOBLEY AT SLUGS'ONE TIME AND I CAME OUT OF THE TUNE,WE WERE DOING A BLUES,I CAME OUT OF IT LIKE A BAR EARLY AND I GOT VERY UPTIGHT.A MATTER OF FACT,JUNIE BOOTH AND THE DRUMMER WAS JACK DEJOHNETTE.I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WAS SITTING IN OR WORKING.I THINK THEY WAS SITTING IN.I CAME OUT OF THAT AND HANK CAME OVER TO ME,AND HE LIKED MY PLAYING,WHICH MEANS I HAD TO BE PLAYING IN.I WASN'T PLAYING OUT.I WAS PLAYING WITH HANK MOBLEY!SO HE SAID,'MAN,YOU SOUND GOOD.'BUT,HOWEVER,THE OTHER THING WAS COMING AND BEING PREVALENT SO PHAROAH HAD EVIDENTALLY HOOKED UP WITH SONNY BEFORE I DID.KNEW HIM BEFORE I DID.AND THIS IS ABOUT A YEAR LATER,I THINK,AND HE SAID IF YOU WANT TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ME CALL THIS NUMBER.SUN RA'S NUMBER.AND I SAID OK. ALLRIGHT.SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH MY MIND IN THE SENSE OF INTUITION BUT I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AND GOING DOWN TO THE VILLAGE TO HEAR MUSIC I HAD WALKED PAST A CLUB.I WAS STILL IN HIGH AT THIS TIME AND I SAW HIS NAME WITH THE BAND AD- VERTISED OUTSIDE AND JUST SOMETHING SAID TO ME,'YOU GOING TO BE PLAYING WITH THIS MAN.'AND I JUST KEPT ON WALKING.NOW,I WAS ABOUT SIXTEEN,SEVENTEEN OR EIGHTEEN.SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THERE.WHEN PHAROAH GAVE ME THE NUMBER...I FELT THAT WHEN I CALLED THIS NUMBER I WAS GOING TO GET A GIG.AND I CALLED THE NUMBER LOOKING FOR PHAROAH AND PHAROAH WASN'T THERE.AND I SPOKE TO SONNY.AND THIS WAS 64.SONNY SAID,'WHO ARE YOU AND BLAH,BLAH,BDAH.'AND HE SAID,'WHAT DO YOU PLAY?'AND I SAID TRUMPET AND HE SAID COME ON DOWN AND THAT'S WHERE I MET (SUN RA).THIRD STREET. SRR NUMBER EIGHT-PUBLISHED FIVE TIMES IN 1996—SUBSRIPTION:$15.00 FOR FIVE ISSUES;$3.00 SINGLE ISSUE.BACK ISSUES:$3.00.0VERSEAS: $4.00 SINGLE ISSUE.BACK ISSUES:$4.00.SUBSCRIPTION:$20.00 FOR FIVE ISSUES.EDITED BY PETER HINDS.COPYRIGHT 1996.0MNI PRESS.P.O. BOX 786,MILLBRAE,CA.94030. .2z27¢///// 015076 V9 '3Vllﬂ'l'IlH 98L X08 '0'd HQIIVHSIHI VII MS
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-08
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 11 (March, 1997)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1997-03-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: ISSUE ELEVEN MARCH 1997 SUN RA INTERVIEW WITH KPOO RADIO(SAN FRANCISCO)BETWEEN SETS AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS IN SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA.SEPT.27,1986. KPOO:WE'RE HERE WITH THE GREAT SUN RA IN SAN FRANCISCO AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS.SUN RA,THAT WAS A GREAT SHOW AS USUAL.WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THE SINCE LAST TIME YOU VISITED THE BAY AREA? SUN RA:I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE LOW PROFILE.BUT SINCE THE WORLD IN SUCH A BAD CONDITION AND I NEVER HAVE PRESENTED WHAT I REALLY REPRESENT,BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT,BUT, SEEMINGLY,NO ONE KNOWS THE ANSWER SO I HAVE TO PRESENT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE,YOU KNOW.BUT THE POSSIBLE HAS REACHED THE STAGE OF PUSHING THE BUTTON AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS THE HEIGHTH OF INTELLECTUAL ENDEAVORS.THE HEIGHTH OF WHAT YOU CALL LIFE AND DEATH AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS PUSHING THE BUTTON.BUT I'M REPRESENTING SOMETHING ELSE AND I NEVER REALLY PRESENTED IT BECAUSE I'M NOT A MINISTER AND I&a...
Show moreISSUE ELEVEN MARCH 1997 SUN RA INTERVIEW WITH KPOO RADIO(SAN FRANCISCO)BETWEEN SETS AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS IN SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA.SEPT.27,1986. KPOO:WE'RE HERE WITH THE GREAT SUN RA IN SAN FRANCISCO AT THE MABUHAY GARDENS.SUN RA,THAT WAS A GREAT SHOW AS USUAL.WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THE SINCE LAST TIME YOU VISITED THE BAY AREA? SUN RA:I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE LOW PROFILE.BUT SINCE THE WORLD IN SUCH A BAD CONDITION AND I NEVER HAVE PRESENTED WHAT I REALLY REPRESENT,BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT,BUT, SEEMINGLY,NO ONE KNOWS THE ANSWER SO I HAVE TO PRESENT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE,YOU KNOW.BUT THE POSSIBLE HAS REACHED THE STAGE OF PUSHING THE BUTTON AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS THE HEIGHTH OF INTELLECTUAL ENDEAVORS.THE HEIGHTH OF WHAT YOU CALL LIFE AND DEATH AND THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE LEFT IS PUSHING THE BUTTON.BUT I'M REPRESENTING SOMETHING ELSE AND I NEVER REALLY PRESENTED IT BECAUSE I'M NOT A MINISTER AND I'M NOT A CULT LEADER.I'M NOT ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN CLASSIFY ON THIS PLANET.SO THEREFORE IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT.IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO APPROACH PEOPLE WITH AN IDEA LIKE THAT.BUT SINCE THEY'RE FACING TOTAL ANNIHILATION MAYBE THEY'LL LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE.'CAUSE THEY SAY TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION,YOU KNOW.THE TRUTH I'M TALKING ABOUT IS STRANGER THAN ANYTHING.IT'S TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE.BUT IT'S THE ONLY WAY.IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN BOOKS.IT'S NEVER BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE.IT'S TOTALLY UNKNOWN.BUT IT'S THE ONLY WAY AT THIS POINT.THE PEOPLE HAVE TO WALK THE PATH OF THE UNKNOWN BE- CAUSE THE KNOWN THINGS HAVE LED TO THE POTENTIAL OF TOTAL DE- STRUCTION.THAT'S WHAT THEIR KNOWLEDGE BROUGHT THEM TO.WELL,I'M NOT DEALING WITH THAT.THAT'S JUST FIVE PERCENT OF MAN'S BRAIN, ANYWAY.I'M DEALING WITH THE POTENTIAL OF THE NINETY FIVE PERCENT OF THEIR BRAIN THAT THEY NEVER USE.THAT'S WHAT THIS MUSIC IS ABOUT.IT'S ABOUT REACHING THOSE AREAS OF THE MIND AND THE SPIRIT THAT'S NEVER BEEN REACHED BEFORE. KPOO:YOU TALKED ABOUT,A LITTLE BIT EARLIER,YOU MAKING A SCHEDULE. AND YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO BE WITH STEEL PULSE DOWN IN SAN DIEGO.STEEL PULSE WAS JUST HERE EARLIER THIS EVENING AND THEY HAVE A SONG OUT CALLED SAVE BLACK MUSIC.HOW WOULD YOU CLASSIFY . THE STATE OF BLACK MUSIC RIGHT NOW? . . , SR:IT'S DEFUNCT RIGHT NOW.BECAUSE IT'S DEALING WITH EARTH THINGS...THEY(MUSICIANS)KNOW ABOUT THE TREES AND THE BIRDS AND THE BEES AND MOSTLY THEY SING ABOUT SEX.BUT I'M(NOT) SINGING ANYTHING ABOUT RELIGIOUS THINGS BUT I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THOSE THINGS.I'M CONCERNED WITH SOMETHING ABOVE THOSE THINGS AND SO,THEREFORE,MY MUSIC IS DIFFERENT.IT HAS A TOUCH OF SOMETHING ELSE IN THERE AND IF YOU CAN CATCH IT THEN ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.IT'S NOT TOO EASY TO CATCH AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE DANGEROUS TO SOME PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY MIGHT THINK IT'S LIKE OTHER RELIGIONS AND THINGS THEY CAN JUMP OVER IN THERE.BUT THEY WON'T SURVIVE IF THEY'RE NOT PURE AND SINCERE. SO THEREFORE,IF IT WEREN'T FOR THAT FACT I'D HAVE ME A TEMPLE AND CHURCH,TOO.MAKE ME MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.BUT I DON'T WANT TO HURT ANYBODY.SO THIS IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE THAT PURE IN HEART AND SINCERE.THE OTHERS CAN STAY BACK AND LEARN.THEY HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY AND THE HARD WAY IS THAT THERE'S ANOTHER KIND OF TRUTH THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AND IT'S YHE ONLY EXIT.ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN FORGET IT.'CAUSE THEY TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE,YOU SEE.DIDN'T WORK. 'x‘ ’. KPOO:YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT SPACE IN YOUR MUSIC AND WITH THE SPACE SHUTTLE BLOWING UP EARLIER THIS YEAR(DO)YOU THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF SPACE NOW? SR:THEY GOT TO DO THINGS PROPERLY.IN THE FIRST PLACE THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SEND ANYBODY UP THERE UNLESS THEY GOT THEIR PASSPORTS AND GOT ALL THE IDENTIFICATION PAPERS AS WHO THEY ARE,WHAT THEIR INTENTS ARE,BECAUSE THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S TERRITORY.AND WHEN YOU GO TO EUROPE OR ASIA(OR)ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GOT A PASSPORT...(TAPE RUNS OUT)...(AFTER TEN SECONDS TO TURN THE TAPE OVER THE INTER- VIEW CONTINUES)...THERFORE_THEY WERE TOTALLY UNPROTECTED AND THEY HAVE TO BE PRECISE.THEY HAVE TO BE DISCIPLINED.THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEIR MINDS ORIENTATED TO FORGET FREEDOM AND BE ON DISCIPLINE PRECISION PLANE.AND IF THAT HAD BEEN DEALT WITH THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NO EXPLOSION BUT THERE WAS SOME HUMAN ERRORS OR SOME- THING AND THEREFORE THAT MEANT FREEDOM.IT MOST CERTAINLY DIDN'T MEAN PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE.IT WAS A LACK OF PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE THAT CAUSED THAT VEHICLE TO DO WHAT IT DID.AND THEY DIED BECAUSE THERE WAS A LACK OF PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE.AND I'M ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PRECISION AND DISCIPLINE.I KNOW MAN IS PRONE TO RELAX AND FEEL AT HOME...MAN'S A BIG BABY,YOU KNOW.AND HE HAVE TO HAVE ALL THESE LITTLE OLD THINGS TO PENT HIM UP AND MAKE HIM THINK,OH.ISN'T LIFE WONDERFUL LIKE A BABY...BUT IT'S NOT TRUE.HE HAS TO STRUGGLE.HE HAS TO BE PRECISE AND DISCIPLINED.HE HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES.HE GOT TO MAKE SOME TERRIFIC CHOICES NOW THAT'S ABOVE THE MENTALITY OF A MAN.MAN CAN'T DO IT.HE GOT TO USE HIS OTHER PART OF HIM.AND IF HE DO THAT,EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ALLRIGHT.BUT IT'S A VERY CRITICAL STAGE AT THIS POINT.LIKE I TOLD A FELLOW IN PHILADELPHIA.I SAID,WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP BEING A MAN AND EVOLUTE(SIC)TO SOMETHING BETTER?HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT FIRST.BUT EVERYTIME I SEE HIM NOW HE GREETS ME WARMLY BECAUSE HE REALIZE I TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT MAN.IT'S NOT SUITABLE,YOU KNOW,TO BE GOING OUT IN SPACE.BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE DOWN THERE.A LOT OF ANGELS ARE DOWN HERE NOW.AND A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM OUTER SPACE AND IF PEOPLE LISTEN TO THEM THEY'LL PAVE THE WAY.BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BELIEVE IT JUST 'CAUSE THEY GOT TWO LEGS AND LOOK LIKE MAN AND WOMAN.THAT IS NOT TRUE ANYMORE.THERE ARE A LOT OF SPACE PEOPLE DOWN HERE WILLING TO HELP.BUT THEY HAVE TO BE REEDUCATED. YOU KNOW.'CAUSE EVERYTHING THEY THINK IS RIGHT IS WRONG. KPOO:THE STORIES ABOUT YOU APPEARING IN EUROPE ARE LEGENDS.YOU'D GET TWENTY FIVE,THIRTY THOUSAND PEOPLE SHOW UP AT YOUR SHOWS AND MOB SCENES AT THE AIRPORT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.ARE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY BECOMING MORE AWARE OF YOU AND YOUR WORK? SR:I NEVER TRIED TO REACH THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY,REALLY.I NEVER TRIED BECAUSE YOU HAD ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WERE LEADERS TO DO THAT SO I DIDN'T SEE WHY I SHOULD UNINTELLIGIBLE WHEN THEY HAD ALL THESE LEADERS ALL AROUND.OF COURSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY NOW.BUT THEY DID HAVE A LOT OF THEM AND I STAYED OUT OF ALL THEIR MOVEMENTS BECAUSE I KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO FAIL EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE SINCERE AND WILLING TO DIE FOR.I KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO FAIL.I'M DEALING WITH EQUATIONS AND TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND PEOPLE:THAT'S NOTHING FOR EUROPE.IN FRANCE I HAD ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND IN A PARK THERE.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN EUROPE BECAUSE THEY GOT A CULTURE MINISTER.MOSTLY I GO THERE UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE CULTURE MINISTER.NOW AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A CUL- TURE MINISTER AND THAT'S WHY IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ME HERE BECAUSE IF YOU HAD A CULTURE MINISTER IN AMERICA HE WOULD SEE TO ME PLAY- ING FOR AMERICAN PEOPLE.BUT SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE AND MUSIC IS MOSTLY IN THE COMMERCIAL DEPARTMENT AND NOT IN THE CULTURE DE- PARTMENT AND THAT IS THE ONE BIG FAULT IN AMERICA.I'M SURE IF THEY HAD THE CULTURE MINISTER INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT CRACK AND COCAINE THEY SHOULD PUT SOMETHING THERE THAT TEENAGERS COULD BE PROUD OF.LIKE A CULTURE MINISTER.THAT COULD REPLACE ALL THE DOPE. YOU SEE,IF AMERICA HAD SOME ETHNIC STRUCTURE SOME OF THE PEOPLE COULD FEEL A PART OF AND THE SPIRIT OF THEY WOULDN'T BE DESOLATE THE WAY THEY ARE,YOU SEE.S0(A)BIG LONILINESS AMONG TEENAGER(S). AND THAT'S WHY THEY DOING THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY KNOW GOOD AND WELL THAT WHATEVER SYSTEMS MAN HAS IT'S NOT SUITABLE FOR THIS KIND OF AGES.NOT SUITABLE.SO THEY SEARCHING.THEY LOOKING FOR AN OUTLET.THAT'S WHAT IT IS.BUT IF THEY HAD A CULTURE MINISTER THAT WOULD BE AN OUTLET BECAUSE SOMEBODY WOULD CARE ABOUT BEAUTY AND CULTURE AND IF YOU TAKE ALL THE DOPE AWAY FROM THEM WHAT DO THEY HAVE LEFT,YOU KNOW.BUT THE BUTTON,YOU KNOW. KPOO:SPEAKING OF CULTURE:THERE'S A NEW JAZZ MOVIE COMING OUT AND, I GUESS HOLLYWOOD IS GETTING READY TO SPEND SOME BIG MONEY ON JAZZ.DO YOU THINK THAT THE JAZZ SCENE IS GETTING TO BECOME LIKE IT WAS IN THE THIRTIES AND FOURTIES?THE REVITALIZATION OF THE JAZZ SCENE IN AMERICA SINCE YOU'VE BEEN AROUND SO LONG. SR:AMERICA IS A BIG SUPERFICIAL COUNTRY.IT'S NOT NOTHING LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AND IF THEY WAS DEALING WITH TRUE JAZZ THEY WOULD START BACK WHERE IT STARTED FROM AND SHOW THE MUSICIANS WHO PEOPLE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.THE ONE'S THEY GOT IN THE ARCHIVES AND EVERYTHING ARE ALL HIDDEN.(THEY ARE)TRYING TO DO SOMETHING NEW. TRYING TO DO SOMETHING WITHOUT BLACK PEOPLE.TRYING TO DO SOME- THING WITHOUT BLACK MUSICIANS.THIS IS TOTALLY SELFISH AND IT WON'T WORK,YOU SEE.THEY GOT TO GO BACK THERE AND WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.I MEAN EVERY MUSICIAN THAT HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER IN AMERICA:HE MUST BE DOCUMENTED AND SPOKEN OF.EVERYBODY WHO EVER DID SOMETHING GOOD IN AMERICA THEY GOT TO GIVE THEM CREDIT.OR THIS COUNTRY WILL HIT THE DIRT AND BE LIKE THE REST OF THEM.THEY MUST GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. EVERYBODY HELPED TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.SO YOU CAN'T LEAVE ANYBODY OUT.YOU CAN'T LEAVE ANYBODY OUT.ALL OF THEM STRUGGLED AND HELPED TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY.THEREFORE THEY ALL GOT A PART IN IT.THEY ALL SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED FOR WHAT THEY DID BECAUSE AMERICA WOULDN'T BE AS STRONG AS IT IS IF EVERYBODY,EVERYBODY RICH AND POOR,BLACK AND WHITE,CHINESE AND JAPANESE.EVERYBODY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS COUNTRY AND EVERYONE.EVERYONE SHOULD BE GIVEN CREDIT FOR WHAT THEY DID BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THAT KIND OF COUNTRY, YOU KNOW.THE TRICK IS:THEY SAY THEY TRUST IN GOD AND THAT'S THE MOST DANGEROUS THING THEY EVER SAID.BECAUSE WHY?THEY GOT TO GIVE ACCOUNT NOW.THEY GOT TO GIVE ACCOUNT.NOW,PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT.BUT THE ONE'S WHO SAY THEY DO: THEY GET JUDGEMENT DAY.JUDGEMENT DAY IS HERE FOR THEM.NOW,THE REST OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD;THEY DON'T HAVE A JUDGEMENT DAY.BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SAY THEY BELIEVE. BUT THE ONE'S WHO SAY THEY BELIEVE AND BEING HYPOCRITICAL:THEY GOT TO PAY NOW. THEY HAVE TO PAY.BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY WELL ORDERED UNIVERSE. AND ALTHOUGH IT LOOKS LIKE NOBODY'S WATCHING.THAT WAS THE BIGGEST TRICK EVER BEEN PLAYED ON AMERICA.THEY THINK NOBODY'S WATCHING. THEY THINK NOBODY WATCHED THE SLAVERY.THEY THINK NOBODY KNOWING ABOUT WHAT THEY DOING TO OLDER PEOPLE.BUT THAT WAS JUST TO GIVE THEM ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG THEMSELVES.OF COURSE IT'S NOT TOO LATE IN A SENSE.IF THEY DEAL WITH BEAUTY AND CULTURE INSTEAD OF VIO- LENCE.BUT MAYBE YES,MAYBE NO.IT DEPENDS. KPOO:YOUR DOING AN INTERESTING SHOW DOWN IN SAN DIEGO WITH STEEL PULSE.HOW DID THAT PAIRING COME ABOUT?IS THAT YOUR IDEA? SR:WELL,SOMEBODY IN SAN DIEGO TRYING TO STOP ME FROM COMING DOWN THERE.SO I ASKED THE CREATOR TO SEND ME DOWN THERE ANYWAY SO HE'S SENDING ME DOWN THERE TO SHOW THIS PERSON THEY CAN'T STOP ME.BUT THEY BEEN DOING IT ABOUT FIVE YEARS.THEY WAS ...SOMEBODY DOWN THERE WAS TRYING TO STOP ME BECAUSE WE WERE DOWN THERE ONCE AND THIS PERSON SAID THAT SOMEBODY IN THE BAND CALLED HIM A HONKEY. WELL,I DIDN'T,YOU KNOW!BUT,I MEAN,I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO BE CRUCIFIED BECAUSE WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE IS DOING IN THIS BAND,YOU KNOW.HE'S SUPPOSED TO JUDGE BY WHAT I'M DOING AND NOT BY WHAT SOMEBODY DO.BUT THAT'S WHY HE BLOCKED...SO I'M GOING THERE ANYWAY 'CAUSE I'M REPRESENTING THE CREATOR.AND ANYTIME I WANT TO GO SOMEWHERE,I'M GOING.OR ELSE THERE WON'T BE NO SAN DIEGO.THE CREATOR BRING AN EARTHQUAKE THROUGH THERE AND GET RID OF IT.YOU KNOW,SEE,I'M WORKING WITH SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY WANTS ME TO HELP THIS PLANET.ANYTHING(THAT)GET IN THE WAY THEY GOT MY SYMPATHY. KPOO:BESIDES YOU,WHO ELSE COULD BE CONSIDERED THE MASTERS WHO ARE STILL AROUND? SR:MOST OF THE MASTERS IN ALL WORKS OF PERFORMANCE,THEY STAY HID- DEN FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY SCARED OF THEM.THEY BE OUT ON THE MOUNTAINS,THEY IN THE DESERT,THEY IN THE FOREST.THEY STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE.PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK FOR THEM.I'M THE ONLY SOMEONE THE CREATOR EVER SENT ALONG THAT'S IN THE MIDST OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE (AND)TALKING TO THEM.IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.WHICH MEANS THE SITUATION IS SO CRITICAL ON THIS PLANET THAT THE CREATOR WOULD EXPOSE SOMEBODY LIKE ME TO HUMAN BEINGS WITH ALL THEIR FRAILTIES AND WHATEVER THEY GOT.MOST DREADFUL,YOU KNOW.BUT NEVERTHELESS I'M IN THE MIDST OF THEM AND I'M TELLING THEM WHAT THEY GOT TO DO SO THAT'S IT.THEY HAVE TO LISTEN.AND IT'S NOT THAT I WANT THEM TO LISTEN.(IT'S)NOT MY PLANET.BUT SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS THEM TO LIS- TEN AND THAT SOMEONE IS SO POWERFUL THAT CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT LISTEN.WHICH WORRIES ME.I MIGHT END UP OWNING FIVE BILLION PEOPLE AND I DON'T WANT THEM.(CHUCKLES) KPOO:ON THE MUSIC SCENE,SUN RA,WHAT ARE YOU UP TO?WHAT ARE YOU GETTING READY TO DO MUSICALLY? SR:THE PEOPLE ARE THE INSTRUMENT.THAT'S WHAT I TOLD THEM IN GERMANY TEN YEARS AGO.THE PEOPLE ARE THE INSTRUMENT. KPOO:SO YOU UTILIZE THE PEOPLE TO INTERPRET WHAT YOU SEE AND FEEL. — SR:NO.THEY GOING TO BE PART OF THE BAND.THEY GOING TO BE THE INSTRUMENTS'CAUSE I REACH OF A YYPICAL POINT WHERE HORNS CAN'T DO IT AND NO MAN MADE INSTRUMENTS CAN DO IT.SO I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PEOPLE.THEY'RE NOT MAN MADE,YOU KNOW.THEY'RE INSTRUMENTS IN A SENSE.WELL,THEY GOT TWO HARPS UP THERE ON THE SIDE OF THEIR HEAD THEY CALL EARS.SHAPED JUST LIKE A HARP.THEY GOT STRINGS IN THERE, TOO.SO EVERYTIME I PLAY FOR THEM THESE STRINGS BE MOVING THEREFORE THEY'RE HARP PLAYERS YOU MIGHT SAY.THEY GOT TWO HARPS UP THERE.THESE STRINGS BE MOVING AND THEY BE PLAYING AND AS THEY DO THE WHOLE BODY WILL RESPOND AND TUNE ITSELF UP.YOU KNOW,YOU HAVE TO TUNE A AUTOMOBILE UP.THESE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET ARE OUT OF TUNE.AND SO THEY GOT TO BE TUNED UP.THEY GOT TO BE TIGHTENED UP LIKE THEY DO A PIANO.IF YOU TUNE THEM UP TO THE CREATOR THEY'LL BE IN COMMUNICATION.IF YOU TUNE THEM UP TO SATURN THEY'LL BE IN COMMUNICATION THERE.WHEREVER YOU TUNE THEM THAT'S WHAT THEY GONNA BE.BUT RIGHT NOW THEY IN TUNE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF DEATH. AND THAT'S WHY THEY ONLY END UP OVER THERE BECAUSE THAT'S(WHERE) THEY IN TUNE.DEATH HAS,YOU KNOW,SOUNDS AND IT HAS VIBRATIONS. THESE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET ARE TUNED TO DEATH AND DEATH COMMUN- CATES WITH THEM ALL THE TIME'CAUSE THEY HAVE NO COMUNICATION WITH NOTHING ELSE;BUT IF THEY TUNED UP ON A HIGHER LEVEL THEY'LL BE ABLE TO REACH A HIGHER ORDER OF BEINGS AND IT'S UP TO THEM IF THEY...YES.IT DEPENDS UPON THE MUSIC.BECAUSE MUSIC IS A LANGUAGE. IT'S THE ONLY PURE LANGUAGE.IT'S THE ONLY UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE AND IF THEY WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING THEY GOT TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC. YOU KNOW,YOU HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT FACE THE MUSIC.THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT TO DO.WELL,SEE,I NEVER LOOKED FOR FAME OR FOR MONEY OR FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT SO THE TRICK IS;HOW CAN THEY GET ME TO HELP THEM?THAT'S GOING TO BE THEIR GREATEST PROBLEM.GETTING ME TO HELP THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE NOTHING I WANT.I DON'T NEED THEIR DIAMONDS AND GOLD AND NOTHING THEY GOT.IT DOESN'T INTEREST ME.SO HOW COULD HUMAN BEINGS ACTUALLY...WHAT CAN THEY FIND TO IN- DUCE ME TO SOLVE THEIR SITUATION AND GET RID OF THIS FOOLISHNESS THEY IN?WHAT CAN THEY DO?IT INTERESTS ME QUITE...I'M VERY INTER- ESTED AS WHAT......BUT,PERSONALLY,IF THE CREATOR GIVE ME FULL AUTHORITY I'M GOING TO GIVE EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET THEIR EVICTION NOTICES.THEY CAN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.NOW,ONE BLACK MAN ASKED ME AND SAID,"WHERE WE GOING?"I SAID NOT MY PROBLEM.WELL,I SAID YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WITH THIS PLANET SO,REALLY,THE CREATOR HAS TRIED A LONG TIME WITH PROPHETS AND ALL THAT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.I GOT THE ANSWER.IF YOU GIVE ME AUTHORITY I'M GIVING EVERYBODY EVICTION NOTICES.AND THEY CAN GET OFF THIS PLANET AND NO LONGER CALL IT HOME BECAUSE THEY DON'T APPRECIATE IT AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE,YOU KNOW.THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE EITHER LIVING OR DEAD.I WOULDN'T EVEN LET THEM BE BURIED IN THE PLANET.THEY (CAN)GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.IT'S A LOT OF PLANETS OUT THERE THEY CAN GO OUT.WHY SHOULD THEY STAY HERE AND POLLUTE THIS AND MESS IT UP? IT'S THEIR HOME AT THIS POINT.BUT THEY CAN BE GIVEN EVICTION NOTICES.A LOT OF NATIONS HAVE BEEN ON THIS PLANET.ENDED UP WITH ONLY ONE LEFT AND ALL THAT SO...I MEAN...THEY SHOULD TAKE HEED FROM HISTORY BUT THE MOST SUPERIOR THING YOU HAVE ON THIS PLANET IS MUSIC.WELL,THE MUSICIANS ON THIS PLANET ARE NOT EVEN RESPECTED AS MEN AND THEY HAVE BEEN ABUSED AND STOLEN FROM ALL THIS TIME. IT'S A SHAME AND A DISGRACE.IT'S A NATIONAL DISGRACE FOR AMERICA THE WAY THEY WOULD LET MUSICIANS BE TREATED.AND MUSICIANS HAVE GIFTS FROM THE CREATOR.AND IF ANYTHING IS A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST IT'S A SIN AGAINST THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GIFTS FROM THE CREATOR.THAT IS UNFORGIVABLE.SO THEY GOT TO WATCH THEIR STEP,YOU KNOW. KPOO:SO HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE THE MUSIC OF STEEL PULSE.YOU THINK YOU REALLY LIKE WORKING WITH THEM? - SR:I NEVER HEARD THEM BUT I APPRECIATE ALL MUSICIANS.ALL MUSICIANS PLAY WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT.THAT'S ALL THEY CAN PLAY. A MASTER COME ALONG AND CAN ADD SOME THINGS AND ENCOURAGE THEM. THAT'S THE WAY IT'S DONE.THAT'S THE REASON BLACK MUSICIANS ARE SO GREAT IN AMERICA.BECAUSE THEY HAD MASTERS TO TEACH THEM. HIDDEN MASTERS WHO WERE UNSELFISH WHO TAUGHT THEM WHILE THE WORLD WAS ASLEEP.AMD THEY TAUGHT THEM.EVERY MUSICIAN WHO CAME UP IN AMERICA,JAZZ MUSICIAN,WHO BECAME GREAT WAS AT THE FOOT OF A MASTER.AND THAT'S WHAT MADE THEM GREAT AND THAT'S WHAT,IN A SENSE,WHAT MADE BLACK MUSICIANS LOSE ENERGIES OR SOMETHING HAPPENING HERE IN AMERICA BECAUSE THEY GOT SO PROUD TRYING TO BE LIKE WHITE PEOPLE AND TRYING TO GET INTO POLITICS UNTILL THEY LOST.YHEY STOPPED FOLLOWING THE MASTERS THAT THE CREATOR SENT THEM.AND NOW THEY'RE AT A STAGE OF...WELL,ANNIHILATION AS MUSICIANS BECAUSE YOU GOT ALL THESE ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS AND EVERYTHING.AND THAT TENDS TO PUT THEM OUT OF WORK,YOU KNOW.BUT IT DOESN'T NECESARILY HAVE TO HAPPEN IF THEY WOULD LISTEN TO THE MASTERS.THEY'RE AMONG THE MASTERS HERE FOR ALL BLACK PEOPLE.THEY HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE MASTERS.THEY BEEN LISTENING TO THE WHITE MASTER.WELL,HE'S HAVING A HARD TIME NOW.HE CAN'T HANDLE THE SITUATION SO...YOU HAVE TO START LISTENING TO THE BLACK 0NES.THEY WON'T ABOUT REVOLUTION.THEY'LL TALK ABOUT YOU GETTING OFF THIS PLANET.YOU DON'T BELONG HERE NO WAY.YOU'LL NEVER BE PART OF IT. YOU CAN JUST FORGET IT. KPOO:I GOT TWO MORE QUESTIONS.THE FIRST IS WHAT WOULD YOU...YOU JUST EXPLAINED THAT HOW THIS COUNTRY TREATS ITS MUSICIANS.WHAT WOULD YOU TELL A YOUNG MUSICIAN COMING UP AS FAR AS FURTHERING HIS FUTURE AS A MUSICIAN?A MUSICIAN IN AMERICA. SR:WELL,THEY GOT TO COME PAST ME BECAUSE I'M GETTING READY TO NULLIFY ALL THE MUSICS THAT BLACK FOLKS DOING BECAUSE I'M ANGRY WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY’HAVEN'T TREATED ME RIGHT EITHER SO I JUST NULLIFY EVERYTHING THEY GOT.WHICH INCLUDES THEIR MUSICIANS,TOO. I'M GOING TO NULLIFY EVERYTHING THAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT.I'M GOING TO NULLIFY THEIR MUSIC.I'M GOING TO NULLIFY EVERYTHING THAT MAN HAS BEEN HOLDING ON TO.AND HE GOING TO HAVE TO COME BY ME. NOW,I'M NOT GOD.IF I WAS GOD I'D FORGIVE THEM.IF I WAS THE DEVIL I'D PUNISH THEM.BUT I'M NOT GOING TO DO EITHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS.I'M GOING TO ACT LIKE THEY DON'T EXIST.LIKE THEY BEEN DOING ME. KPOO:FINALLY,IF,WHEN THESE MUSICIANS DECIDED THEY WANTED TO JOIN THE RA BAND WHAT WOULD THEY HAVE TO DO TO HOOK UP WITH YOU AND PLAY IN YOUR BAND? SR:THEY GOT TO BE TOTALLY SINCERE.OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE QUITE DANGEROUS.I'VE TRIED TO HELP A FEW TEENAGERS.I THOUGHT MAYBE THAT WOULD BE THE ANSWER.BLACK ONES:THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT,YOU KNOW. BECAUSE,YOU KNOW,THEY WERE PROUD AND THEY WERE SELFISH AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT,THEY WON'T MAKE IT WITH ME.BUT,YOU KNOW,IT'S HARD TO FIND...IT'S DIFFICULT TO FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE SINCERE.IT'S QUITE DIFFICULT.IT USED TO BE EASY IN THE BLACK RACE.(NOW IT IS)QUITE DIFFICULT. KPOO:AGAIN THOSE CONCERTS DATES.THEY MENTIONED A COUPLE OF CONCERRT DATES.YOU GOING TO BE AROUND THIS WEEK? SR:I'M GOING TO BE AROUND.I'M GOING TO A LOT OF SAN PLACES.LIKE SAN RAFEAL,SANTA CRUZ,SANTA ROSA AND THEN I'M GOING TO A PLACE... THE LAST DATE I'M PLAYING IN CALIFORNIA I'M GOING TO A PLACE WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE OPPOSE US.(THEY)SAY DON'T GO THERE.AND THIS IS SOMETHING THEY CALL THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF IT.BUT ONE OF THEM HEARD US IN NEW YORK CITY AT THE LONE STAR AND HE WANTED US TO COME AND PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE. SO OF COURSE I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.IT INTRIGUES ME WHY THEY WOULD TELL ME DON'T GO THERE.IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE MAYBE ABOUT...THE TOWN'S SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT FOUR BLOCKS LONG AND THE PEOPLE COME OUT(FROM)THE MOUNTAIN TO HEAR THE BAND. WELL,I'M VERY INTRIGUED AND HAPPY THAT ONE OF THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE CAME TO NEW YORK AND HEARD US AND WANTS US TO PLAY FOR THEM.SO THAT IS A...YEAH,I'M PLAYING FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.AND THEY GOT TO COME OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN TO HEAR US AND THAT'S GOOD.I'M SURE THAT IN AMERICA WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME IS THAT THE HILL- BILLIES AND THE SOUTHERN PREJUDICE PEOPLE AND THE KU KLUX KLAN AND ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE THAT DISCRIMINATE ARE GOING TO SEE I GET THE PROPER CHANCE HERE.THEY GOING TO SEE TO IT.WHERE IT SHOULD BE THE BLACK PEOPLE AND THE WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SO LIBERAL.THEY SUPPOSED TO DO IT BUT THEY NOT DOING IT.SO THEN THE CREATOR GOING TO TAKE THE OTHERS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE THE VERY ENEMY OF BLACK PEOPLE AND THEY GOING TO HELP ME BECAUSE THEY CAN DISCRIMINATE.A PERSON WHO CAN DISCRIMINATE WILL ALWAYS CHOOSE THE BEST.AND THE DISCRIMINATORS ARE GOING TO BE THE ONE THAT SEE TO IT THAT AMERICA TREAT ME PROPERLY.AND THAT'S THE REASON I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.WE WENT UP IN NEW ENGLAND PLAYING AND NEW ENGLAND,THEY HAVEN'T HEARD...YOU KNOW,THEY VERY STAID UP THERE.A FELLOW IN PHILADELPHIASAID,'WELL.DO YOU PLAY FOR WHITE PEOPLE?I SAID,'YES.WE PLAY FOR THEM ALL THE TIME.HE SAID.'NO.I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WHITE WHITE PEOPLE.THE YANKEES OF NEW ENGLAND. THEY NEVER DO HAVE ANYTHING UP THERE...WOULD YOU PLAY FOR THEM?‘ I SAID,'SURE.'SO ANOTHER BOOKING AGENT,THEY BEEN TRYING TO GET US THERE FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS.HE NEVER COULD GET US UP THERE.FINALLY WE DID GO UP THERE AND NEW ENGLAND GAVE US STANDING OVATIONS.WE GETTING READY TO GO BACK.THEY LIKED WHAT WE WERE DOING.AND ONE TIME THE MAN SAID,'WELL,HOW DID WE REDNECKS TREAT YOU?WE TREAT YOU ALLRIGHT,DIDNT(WE).'AND THEY DID.IT WAS VERY NICE.SO NEW YEARS EVE,ATLANTA,GEORGIA WANTS ME TO PLAY DOWN THERE EVERY NEW YEARS EVE AND WE PLAYED THERE TWO NEW YEARS AND THEY WANT US TO COME BACK AND PLAY AND THAT'S THE GATEWAY TO THE SOUTH.BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN IN ALABAMA TO PLAY...IN OTHER PARTS OF GEORGIA OR MISSISSIPPI.I'VE BEEN TO NEW ORLEANS....THERE'S A LOT OF STATES I'VE BEEN T0.0KLAHOMA...BUT I'M GETTING READY TO GO TO SALT LAKE CITY.I NEVER PLAYED THERE.WHEN I LEAVE CALIFORNIA I'M PLAYING THE MORMON TERRITORY.WE'LL SEE WHAT THE MORMONS SAY. KPOO:(LAUGHING)THAT SHOULD BE INTERESTING.OK.THANK YOU VERY MUCH SUN RA.YOUR SHOW IS GREAT AS USUAL AND WE ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU OUT HERE IN CALIFORNIA. SR:OK.THANK YOU. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS.PETER HINDS AND CARLOS SANTANA....SEPTEMBER 29,l986....BETWEEN SETS AT NEW GEORGE'S SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA............. . . . . . .... . . . . . . ........... SUN RA:AND THE FIRST THING:I'M GOING TO GET THE HILLBILLIES.I GOT THEM ALREADY.I GOT THE HILLBILLIES.AND I GOT THE REDNECKS.I PLAYED UP IN NEW ENGLAND AND THE REDNECKS SAID.'TREAT YOU PRETTY GOOD,DIDN'T WE?WE REDNECKS ALLRIGHT.'I SAID,'YES.'(LAUGHTER) UP IN YANKEE TERRITORY.WENT UP THERE.AND NOW I'M GETTING READY TO GO TO THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA WHICH EVERYONE SAYS. ‘DON'T GO AND PLAY FOR THEM.'I SAY,'I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THEM.’ PETER HINDS:UP IN GARBERVILLE. SR:THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.THEY GOT A TERRIBLE REPUTATION.I'M GOING TO THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE WHEN? PH:MONDAY. WOMAN'S VOICE:WHERE IN THE MOUNTAINS ARE YOU GOING? SR:IT'S A TOWN ABOUT FOUR BLOCKS LONG.START WITH A G. PH:GARBERVILLE. SR:AND THEY MOUNTAIN PEOPLE...THEY...MOST OF THEM I HEAR ARE VETS.AND THEY GOT TIGER TRAPS AND BEAR TRAPS IN THE MOUNTAIN(S). TRAP PEOPLE THAT COME UP THERE THAT NOT INVITED.AND THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE AND IT'S TERRIBLE.BUT ONE OF THEM CAME TO NEW YORK AND HEARD US AND INVITED US THERE TO PLAY. WV:HOW NICE.HOW VERY NICE. SR:THE BOOKING AGENT SAID,'DON'T GO UP THERE.'WHY SHOULDN'T I PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE?SAID,'TERRIBLE.THEY'RE TERRIBLE.' I SAID,'BUT,THEY'RE WARM LIKE US.I'M GOING TO PLAY FOR THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE.'TOLD THE FELLAS,'DON'T WALK OUT IN THE WOODS. GOT TIGER TRAPS.'THEY TELL ME THE FBI GOT SIGNS UP THERE.DON'T VENTURE IN THEIR TERRITORY.THEY GOT THEM OUT THERE(TRAPS)BASIC- ALLY SET FOR THE FBI AND CIA NOW.I HEAR.I HEAR THEY VETS AND THEIR OWN LITTLE PRIVATE ESTATES AND PARKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT SO THEY DON'T WANT THE CIA AND FBI UP IN THERE.SET BEAR TRAPS AND TIGER TRAPS.AND WE STAY RIGHT AT THE HOTEL AND WE NOT GOING...IF ANY OF'THEM GET CAUGHT IN THE TIGER TRAPS...IT'S TOO BAD. (LAUGHTER)I'M NOT GOING OUT THERE TO GET THEM. SUN RA:THE WORLD THE WAY IT IS...IT'S THE SAME WAY IT WAS WHEN I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TEACHING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IN BERKELEY.AND THEY FIRED ME.EVERYTHING I SAID HAS COME TRUE.EVERY- THING.AND I SAID,'WELL,IT'S NOT A UNIVERSITY IF STUDENTS CAN'T HEAR EVERYTHING PRO AND CON.IT'S NOT A UNIVERSITY.'CAUSE A UNI- VERSITY MEAN THEY HAVE TO BE EXPOSED TO EVERYTHING.'CAUSE THEY GET OUT THERE AND THE ONE THING THEY COULDN'T LEARN COULD BEAT THEM ON DOWN TO THE GROUND AND DEFEAT THEM.I TOLD THEM THAT.AND NOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS SPREAD OUT ALL OVER PLANET EARTH. EVERY NATION HERE.AND THEY GOING TO HAVE TO FACE IT,YOU KNOW. IT IS THE TRUTH.I WISH IT WASN'T.IT IS.IT'S ANOTHER KIND OF TRUTH.IT'S GOING TO STOP EVERY WHEEL THAT'S ON THIS PLANET. 'CAUSE I'M DEALING WITH A CREATOR THAT NEVER EVER EVEN APPROACHED THIS PLANET EXCEPT WHEN THESE PLANETS CEASE AND HE LEFT IT.HE NEVER...HE NEVER APPROACHED IT.ALL THAT STUFF THEY GOT...THAT'S NOT HIM.HE NEVER DID APPROACH THEM 'CAUSE NOBODY ASKED HIM TO. THEY'S TRYING TO DO THINGS THEIR OWN WAY.THEY WAS TALKING WHAT THEY THOUGHT GOD IS AND,YOU KNOW,THEY HAD THEM OVER IN THEIR IMAGE SAY(ING),'OH, HE'S THIS AND HE'S THAT.'AND ALL OF THEM CAME UP AND NOBODY TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM.EVERYBODY FELL SHORT.THEY ALL FELL SHORT.SO,YOU KNOW,SCHOOL IS ABOUT TO CLOSE NOW.THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT.ALL OF THEM GONNA GET A X.FOR TOMORROW.GIVE ALL OF THEM A X.KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?THAT MEANS(LAUGHS)THEY FAILED THE COURSE.SO THEN NOW THEY GOT TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.WELL,THAT COURSE WHAT THEY FAILED;THAT WILL BE ABOLISHED.THEY GET A WHOLE NEW SYSTEM NOW,WHOLE THING SO THEY CAN SEE WHAT THEY GOING TO DO WITH THAT.BUT THEY'LL NEVER COME BACK UNINTELLIGIBLE THE COURSE. THEY JUST FAILED IT.SO,YOU KNOW,IT'S LIKE PLAYING A GAME OF CHESS.IF YOU LOST THE GAME,THAT'S IT.YOU DON'T PLAY THAT GAME OVER.I MEAN,YOU PLAY ANOTHER ONE.IT'S ALL A GAME,YOU KNOW. NOTHING BUT A GAME.LIKE CHESS.AND SOMEBODY'S PLAYING THIS GAME AND WHEN THEY TAKE THE MAN OF THE BOARD IT'S JUST LIKE CHESS.YOU PUT THEM IN A BOX.AND ALL THEM FOLKS OUT THERE IN BOXES.THEY TOOK THEM OFF THE BOARD.THEY LOST.AND WHOEVER WAS PLAYING THE GAME LOST,TOO.AND SOMEBODY ELSE PLAYING THE GAME WON,YOU KNOW.SO I'M FROM THE EMPEROR.NOW THEY TALKING ABOUT THE KING.KING'S DON'T ‘. ;»4gt»$,l%- .;,_,',”g:. STAND A CHANCE WITH EMPERORS,YOU KNOW.ANYBODY CAN BE A KING.NOT EVERYBODY CAN BE EMPEROR 'CAUSE AN EMPEROR HAS AN EMPIRE.AND THIS CREATOR HAS AN EMPIRE OF THE OMNIVERSE.YOU CAN'T GO NO HIGHER THAN THAT.HE DON'T CARE NOTHIN' ABOUT NO UNIVERSE.HUGE UNIVERSE (USED)FOR STEPPING STONE.BUT,SEE,IN NEW YORK I DID A LOT OF THINGS THAT THE WORLD HADN'T HEARD AND I SAID,'WELL USE UNIVERSE FOR STEPPING STONES.AND THEY NEED TO HEAR WHAT NEW YORK HAS HEARD.FOR WHAT?ABOUT FIFTEEN YEARS?FIFTEEN YEARS NEW YORK HAS BEEN HEARING WHAT I'M SAYING AND PLAYING.REST OF THE WORLD SITTING OUT HERE...DUMMIES.DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.BUT MOSTLY I'LL BE PLAYING IN AVANTE-GARDE PLACES AND LIKE THAT AND MOSTLY I'LL BE PLAYING IN THE EUROPEAN PLACES IN AMERICA.YUGOSLAVIA HAD A PLACE THERE.I PLAYED FOR THEM. JOHN HINDS:WHERE? sR:YUGOSLAvIA.RIGHT IN NEw YORK CITY.THEY HAD A CLUB.AND (wHEN)wE STOPPED PLAYING THERE IT_gLOSED_DOwN.NOEODY COULD DRAw THERE BUT THEY CAME IN AND THERE WAS SOME PEOPLE FROM SWEDEN HERE,PLAYED FOR THEM.SwITzERLAND.AMERIcANS?wELL...I'M BEGINNING TO wONDER IF THERE ARE ANY.WE DON'T PLAY FOR THEM.wE ALwAYS PLAYING FOR SOME- BODY PROM EUROPE wHO GOT CONTACT IN EUROPE.IT'S MOST AMAzING.YOU KNOw.OR ELSE,THE ONLY AMERICANS wE PLAY FOR...HILLBILLIES AND REDNECxS.PLAYED EOR THEM.AND THEN THEY....THE HARDCORE PLACES LIKE THE MOTORCYCLE GANGS AND ALL THAT.PLAYED POR THEM.sEE.THEY AwAKE.EUT THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT GOT THESE NICE CLUEs...wE DON'T PLAY FOR THEM.'CAUsE THEY STILL ASLEEP.NOw I'M GETTING READY... I GOT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF FANS THAT'S ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PRINGE OF RELIGION,PHILOSOPHY,SOCIETY.THEY ON THE OUTSIDE BUT THEY AWAKE.THEY READY.AND I'M READY,TOO. CARLOS SANTANA:EXCUSE ME MR.MYSTERY.MY NAME'S MR.SANTANA AND... SR:COME UP CLOSER. CS:AND I'D LIKE TO OFFER YOU MY DEEPEST GRATITUDE FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO ILLUME AND TRANSFORM AND ELEVATE THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF HUMANITY THROUGH YOUR MUSIC...(SPOKEN SOFTLY) SR:SPEAK A LITTLE CLOSER. CS:I SAY I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER YOU MY DEEPEST GRATITUDE FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO ILLUME..TRANSFORM AND ELEVATE THE CONSCIOUSNESS S OF HUMANITY THROUGH YOUR MUSIC AND THROUGH THE MUSIC OF YOUR A BROTHERS.I'M VERY GRATEFUL AND I'D LIKE TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I § ASPIRE TO INVITE YOU AND THE MUSIC OF OLATUNJI AND PERHAPS DO A L CONCERT WITH THREE BANDS SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.AND IF YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER. SR:ALLRIGHT.WILL YOU GET HIS...YOUR NUMBER.AND HE'LL GIVE YOU MINE. 1 CS:THANK YOU.SUN RA. SR:AND NOW. WE GETTING READY TO GO TO...WHEN WE LEAVE HERE WE'RE GOING TO SALT LAKE CITY UP THERE IN MORMON COUNTRY.THEN WE KEEP ON TO WASHINGTON DC THEN WE HEADED TO FLORENCE AND ROME.AND WE BE GOING THERE ABOUT A WEEK.WE SUPPOSED TO GO TO FRANCE BUT DUE TO THE ATMOSPHERE IN FRANCE...I-DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING THERE,YOU KNOW.I WANT TO GO MYSELF.I THINK SOME FELLOWS IN THE BAND ARE 12 AFRAID.BUT I'M NOT AFRAID.I'D GO THERE.I CAN FEEL THAT THEY KIND OF NOT TO PLEASED WITH THE IDEA OF GOING TO PARIS.(CHUCKLES) CS:(CHUCKLES)WE WALK IN GRACE,I'M SURE.WE WALK IN GRACE AND I'M SURE THE BAND'S GOT PROTECTION AND DIVINE PROTECTION. SR:OH YEAH.I KNOW I HAVE.BUT,YOU SEE,A LOT OF MEN DON'T HAVE THEIR SHIELDS UP.YOU KNOW,AND THEY'RE SORT OF COMPLACENT AND THEY DON'T REALIZE THEY GOT TO HAVE THEIR SHIELDS UP WITH COLORS AND PERFUMES AND VIBRATIONS AND CLOTHES.THE RIGHT KIND OF COLORS.AND THEY JUST WALKING AROUND LIKE THEY PROTECTED BUT THEY AREN'T.THEY GOT TO PUT THEIR SHIELDS UP ‘CAUSE THESE FORCES ATTACK WHEN THEY SEE A PERSON WITH THE WRONG COLOR ON FOR THEIR SPIRIT.EVERYDAY THEY GOT TO BE CHANGING COLORS ACCORDING TO ...SOMETHING TO COUNTERACT OTHER KIND OF COLORS.WHEN THEY PUT ON THE RIGHT COLORS,THEN THEIR SPIRIT JUST VIBRATE AND HARMONIZE AND PUT PRO- TECTION AROUND.BUT PEOPLE JUST PUT ON ANYTHING.ANY COLOR.IT'S DANGEROUS.SO THEY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT.THEY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT TO BE OBEDIENT AND TO LISTEN SO THEY CAN GET USED TO BEING OBEDIENT TO THEIR SPIRIT AND YOU KNOW...BUT IT'S ALMOST WHERE IT'S TOO LATE. ABOUT ONE MINUTE TO MIDNIGHT. CS:IT'S WONDERFUL TO MEET YOU AND AGAIN MY GRATITUDE FOR YOUR MUSIC... SR:BE WAITING TO HEAR FROM YOU.OK.ALL RIGHT. (CARLOS SANTANA EXITS) SR:EVERYTHING I WAS SAYING,YOU SEE,IS...WASN'T WRITTEN.I JUST SAID IT ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAD FOUND OUT IN MY RESEARCHES AND I WAS DOING THIS SPIRITUALLY.YOU GOT TO PUT THESE WORDS TOGETHER PROPERLY.IF YOU GOT CERTAIN CHEMICALS TOGETHER THEY BECOME DEADLY.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH WORDS.THAT'S TRUE.BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THIS OVER IN PHILOSOPHY.YOU DON'T HAVE IT IN RELIGION NEITHER.THEY DON'T UNINTELLIGIBLE...(TAPE RUNS OUT)..... (TAPE CONTINUES) , . . . . .. PH:THIS REMINDS ME OF THAT BOOK YOU SHOWED US A YEAR OR TWO AGO. THAT OTHER SMALL EDITION FROM ENGLAND OR SOMETHING. JOHN HINDS:FROM ENGLAND. PH:REMEMBER THAT ONE?A RATHER LIMITED EDITION.TRANSCRIPTIONS. SR:OH YEAH.WELL THIS A BIG BOOK WHEN YOU THINK OF IT. PH:YEAH.THAT IS. SR:MAYBE THESE POEMS SHOULD BE IN A BOOK LIKE THIS.ALL OF THEM. JH:YEAH.THAT WOULD BE THE THING.YEAH. SR:'CAUSE PEOPLE REALLY WANT IT. PH:IT WAS NICE HEARING SPACE AURA. SR:OH YEAH.SPACE AURA IS...IT'S A SLEEPER.IT'S VERY...IT'S _ TALKING.I THINK I'LL PLAY IT WHEN I GO...I REALLY LIKE IT SLOW, TOO.(SUN RA AND JOHN HINDS SING).... 13 SR:'CAUSE YOU DO A FAST VERSION FROM THE FIFTIES.THERE'S A COUPLE VERSIONS.ONE'S FAST AND ONE'S REAL SLOW.OH,IT'S BEAUTIFUL. SR:RIGHT.THAT'S THE THING ABOUT MY COMPOSITIONS.THEY CAN BE PLAYED BOTH WAYS.THEY(CAN)BE PLAYED SO FAST YOUTTHINK THE MUSICIANS...BUT,YOU KNOW,IT'S REACHED A STAGE WHERE SOME MUSICIANS,IF THEY PLAY THEM WRONG,THEY GET WEAKER AND WEAKER. THAT'S RIGHT.SOME THEY GET STRONGER AND STRONGER SO,YOU SEE,THIS IS ANOTHER KIND OF MUSIC. PH:BILLY BANG.I HEARD AN INTERVIEW LAST NIGHT ON ART SATO'S SHOW... SR:OH YEAH.BILLY BANG.YOU SHOULD HEAR HIM PLAY WITH US. PH:WELL,HE WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU ON THIS INTERVIEW LAST NIGHT... SR:WHAT DID HE SAY?...HE SAY HE'S GOING TO BE OUT HERE AROUND THIS TIME. PH:HE'S BACK EAST RIGHT NOW BUT ART SATO PLAYED A SEGMENT OF THIS LONG INTERVIEW HE DID WITH BILLY BANG AND BILLY BANG WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU IN THIS SEGMENT HE PLAYED AND HE SAID,'BOY!SUN RA KNOWS SO MUCH AND HAS GOT SO MUCH MUSIC THAT I KNOW HE'S TAKING IT EASY ON ME...'(SUN RA LAUGHS)HE GOES.'I'M HAVING TROUBLE KEEPING UP AND I KNOW HE'S TAKING IT EASY ON ME.'YOU KNOW.YEAH.THAT WAS GREAT.SO HE WAS JUST SO PLEASED TO...HE SAYS HE WANTS TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF BUT HE'S,LIKE,TORN'CAUSE HE WANTS TO PLAY MORE WITH YOU...(SUN RA LAUGHS)AND HE'S REALLY WORKING ON MAKING ROOM FOR BOTH NOW.SO IT'S VERY NICE,YOU KNOW. SR:YEAH.HE DID SAY EVERYTIME HE PLAY:'I GOT TO COME TO PHILADELPHIA AND STAY WITH YOU ALL BUT YOU DID SOMETHING ELSE TONIGHT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT...'ONE NIGHT WE WAS PLAYING.JUST HE AND I AND THEN HE STOPPED... PH:AT HOME? SR:N0.0N THE JOB IN NEW YORK.AND.YOU KNOW,EVERYBODY LAID OUT AND I PLAYED HE'S PLAYING AND ALL AT ONCE HE STOPPED.BUT I ASKED HIM, I SAID,'WHY DID YOU STOP?’(HE REPLIED)'WELL,IT WENT...IT WAS GOING SO(FAST)...I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.'(LAUGHS)I SAID,'WHAT YOU WERE PLAYING WERE BEAUTIFUL.'HE SAID,'YEAH.BUT I JUST REACHED A STAGE(WHERE)I HAD TO LISTEN TO YOU INSTEAD.SO...IT REALLY IS BRANCHING OUT.IN FACT,'CAUSE THE PIANO PLAYER(GRAHAM CONNAH),LAST PLACE WE PLAYED(SANTA CRUZ),MAYBE HE WASN'T EVEN TWENTY,HE SAY, 'YEAH.OH,TONIGHT YOU PLAYED ALL MY FAVORITE NUMBERS AND MY FAVO- RITE NUMBER IS IMAGES.AND YOU PLAYED THAT. PH:WHERE WAS THIS,NOW?IN SANTA CRUZ?LAST NIGHT. SR:SANTA CRUZ.AND HE SAID...YEAH,IMAGES.AND HE SAID,'I BEEN TRYING TO...I BEEN TRYING TO PLAY THAT.I LISTEN TO IT AND I TRY TO WRITE IT AND I THINK I GOT IT...I CAN'T...IT'S SOMETHING WHERE I CAN'T CATCH IT.'I SAID,'YEAH.WELL,IT'S THAT KIND OF NUMBER.’ IT OFFERS SO MANY POTENTIALS WHEN YOU PLAYING IT YOU HEAR SOMETHING ELSE.AND I SAID,'I'VE WRITTEN IT SEVERAL TIMES OVER.ANOTHER WAY TO WRITE IT.'OTHER CHORDS COME IN THERE AND THEY ALL SOUND GOOD. 14 I SAID,'IT'S ONE OF THOSE SONGS.'I GOT ANOTHER ONE LIKE THAT. IT'S...THEY PLAN(TO LEAVE).THAT SONG...THE BASS CAN BE A LOT OF THINGS.IT'S INTRIGUING.CAN'T TELL WHAT KEY IT'S IN EITHER. ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS TO BE IN A CERTAIN KEY,WHEN YOU WRITE IT THEN YOU NOT SATISFIED.'CAUSE IT'S INTANGIBLE.IT'S AN INTAGIBLE SONG. AND I GOT A LOT OF SONGS LIKE THIS.INTANGIBLE.THEY DON'T EVEN...THERE NOT IN ANY EARTH KEY.I CREATED THEM AT THE HOUSE AND I GOT TO PUT THEM OUT BUT I'D HAVE TO TEACH THE BAND OVER.I'D HAVE TO TEACH THEM OVER EECAUSE THEY LOST THE FEEL.SEE.THEY MIGHT PLAY THE NOTES BUT THE FEELING IS SOMETHING ELSE.AND I'M GOING TO GET BACK TO THAT.BUT IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE I GO AND GET SOME MUSICIANS AND THEY COULD BE JUST FULL OF STEAM AND READY AND THEY GET WEAKER. EVERY NIGHT THEY GET WEAKER,WEAKER AND WEAKER AND THAT'S THE REASON I GOT MY ELECTRONICS...AND I GOT TO GET SOME MORE.FIVE OR SIX OF THEM AND THEN I'LL PLAY THAT.I HAVE TO KEEP ON MOVING.I HAVE A MESSAGE TO GET EXPLAINED.I HAVE TO DO IT WETHER THE MUSICIANS CAN MAKE IT OR NOT.I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO STAND STILL.BUT I CAN DO IT AND THEN YOU CAN HEAR IT.HIT ONE NOTE.BAM! AND YOU WAIT A LITTLE.ANOTHER NOTE.BAM!AND IF YOU HIT THAT NOTE TOO SOON THERE'S NO MESSAGE THERE.THAT'S HOW DELICATE IT IS.THAT NOTE HAS TO BE...THAT'S THE REASON JOHN CAGE HAS GOT HIS WATCH. HE DOING IT LIKE THAT.HE GOT THAT WATCH.....YOU'LL SEE HIM CHANT. AND HE WAIT.SUDDENLY HE'LL DO IT LIKE THAT.BUT I'M NOT DOING IT LIKE THAT.I'LL DO IT...I'M DOING IT NATURAL.THAT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT.NOW,IT'S POSSIBLE HE CAN TAKE HIS THING...HE CAN TEACH SOMEBODY ELSE WHO HAS GOT THEIR WATCH.I CAN'T.I DON'T HAVE A WATCH.EVERY TIME I GET ONE I LOSE IT,ANYWAY.(LAUGHTER)BUT I CAN SAY THAT PEOPLE ARE LISTENING MORE INTENTLY AT WHAT I'M DOING AND WHAT I'M SAYING.THEY LISTENING. PH:IT wAs FUNNY WHEN THE SET ENDED TONIGHT YOU WERE STANUING WITH YOUR ARMS CROSSED STARING AT EVERYONE.N0 ONE wAs SINGING.I wAs WONDERING...N0 ONE wAs REALLY SINGING IN THE CROWD wnxcn IS UN- UsUAL.ANU I THOUGHT YOU wAs JUST LOOKING AT THEM... SR:THEY wAs JUST wATcHING ME. JH:JUST TOTALLY INTENT ON THAT§sO POWERFUL. SR:)LAUGHS) PH:WELL,I THINK THEY WERE A LITTLE TRANSFIXED,YOU KNOW. 15 SUN RA AND NOEL SCOTT NEW YORK. . .1989. . . . . . PHOTO:ANDREW HILL. . . . MARSHALL ALLEN AND JOTHAN CALLINS NEW YORK . 1 99 1 . PHOTO : R .' MAYEDA -4 = JUNE TYSON f NEW YORK.l99l % PHOTO:R.MAYEDA JAMES JACSON NEW YORK . 1991 PHOTO: R . MAYEDA SUN RA AND JUNE TYSON OUTSIDE SWEET BASIL NEW YOR-K.JULY 1984 PHOTO:C.ROMA I'M REPRESENTING SOMETHING ELSE AND I NEVER REALLY PRESENTED IT BECAUSE I'M ‘ NOT A MINISTER AND I'M NOT A CULT 1 LEADER. I'M NOT ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN CLASSIFY ON THIS PLANET. SO THEREFORE IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT. IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT TO APPROACH PEOPLE WITH AN IDEA LIKE THAT. BUT SINCE THEY'RE FACING TOTAL ANNIHILATION MAYBE THEY'LL LISTEN TO SOMETHING ELSE. ’CAUSE THEY SAY TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION, YOU KNOW. THE TRUTH I'M TALKING ABOUT IS STRANGER THAN ANYTHING. IT'S TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE. BUT |T's THE ONLY WAY. IT'S ABOUT SOMETH INC THAT'S NoT IN BOOKS. IT'S NEVER BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE. IT'S TOTALLY UNKNOWN. BUT IT'S THE ONLY wAv AT THIS POINT. THE PEOPLE HAVE To WALK THE PATH OF THE UNKNOWN BECAUSE THE KNOWN THINGS HAVE LED TO THE POTENTIAL OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION. THAT'S WHAT THEIR KNOWLEDGE BROUGHT THEMTO. SUN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-11
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 12 (July, 1997)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1997-07-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: Juur 1997 ISSUE Twnvs A 1' BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE. CA 94030 (9 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PET R HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00 I .. .) M. ,./W, SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLIS _A poa- PH OTO: PETER HINDS SUN RA. . .SEPT. 1986 MABUHAY GARDENS SAN FRANCISCO CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS.............. NEW GEORGE'S....SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA...SEPTEMBER 29,1986....... SUN RA:MEN ON THIS PLANET ARE NOT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.AND WHEN I GET UNINTELLIGIBLE HERE THEY WILL BE THERE OR BE DEAD.I RATHER FOR EVERY MAN TO BE DEAD ON THIS PLANET THAN TO BE THE WAY THEY ARE.I'M NOT GOING(TO)COMPROMISE...MAKE NO EXCUSES FOR NO MAN.TO ERR IS HUMAN IS NOT MY CREED.I CAN'T BE MAKING MISTAKES WHEN I'M PLAYING MY MUSIC.AND MEN SHOULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHEN THEY DOING OTHER THINGS.WHY SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN THE FREEDOM I DON'T HAVE?I DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE MISTAKES IN MUSIC.IF I MAKE A MISTAKE THE WORLD CAN TELL IT.AN...
Show moreJuur 1997 ISSUE Twnvs A 1' BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE. CA 94030 (9 1997 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PET R HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00 I .. .) M. ,./W, SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLIS _A poa- PH OTO: PETER HINDS SUN RA. . .SEPT. 1986 MABUHAY GARDENS SAN FRANCISCO CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS.............. NEW GEORGE'S....SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA...SEPTEMBER 29,1986....... SUN RA:MEN ON THIS PLANET ARE NOT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE.AND WHEN I GET UNINTELLIGIBLE HERE THEY WILL BE THERE OR BE DEAD.I RATHER FOR EVERY MAN TO BE DEAD ON THIS PLANET THAN TO BE THE WAY THEY ARE.I'M NOT GOING(TO)COMPROMISE...MAKE NO EXCUSES FOR NO MAN.TO ERR IS HUMAN IS NOT MY CREED.I CAN'T BE MAKING MISTAKES WHEN I'M PLAYING MY MUSIC.AND MEN SHOULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHEN THEY DOING OTHER THINGS.WHY SHOULD THEY BE GIVEN THE FREEDOM I DON'T HAVE?I DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE MISTAKES IN MUSIC.IF I MAKE A MISTAKE THE WORLD CAN TELL IT.AND MEN CAN MAKE MISTAKES AND THE WORLD WON'T SEE IT.BUT THEY SHOULDN'T MAKE ANY.I STUDIED SO I WON'T MAKE ANY.I DO THINGS ON PRECISION BASIS.IF THEY DID THINGS ON PRECISION BASIS AND IF THEY DID THINGS BY THEIR INSTINCTS AND INTUITION THEY WOULD NOT MAKE MISTAKES.BUT THEY DEAL WITH SO MANY . TRIVIALITIES UNTILL THEY HAVE GOTTEN SO...(AIN'T)WORTH TWO CENTS AND A HALF.AIN'T WORTH TWO CENTS AND A HALF.INTELLIGENT.AND GOT MINDS AND BRAINS AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THEY GOT TIME TO MAKE MISTAKES?I DON'T HAVE TIME TO MAKE NO MISTAKES.I'M TOO BUSY MOVING FORWARD.AND I REQUIRE EVERY MAN TO BE LIKE THAT.BLACK, WHITE,YELLOW.I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY ARE.I DON'T CARE IF THEY AIN'T GOT NO EDUCATION.I DO NOT WANT NO MISTAKES FROM MANIALL THESE NATIONS.THEY BETTER GET THEMSELVES TOGETHER.I'M ASKING SO MANY MUSICIANS IF THEY CAN DO THINGS.THEY IS NOT DOING THEIR DUTY.THEY NOT DOING(IT).EVERY MAN OUGHT TO DO WHAT HE CAN DO BEST.DO HIS VERY BEST.AND AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE LAGGIN' AROUND AND GETTING BY AND GETTING OVER AND SNEAKING BY,HIDING UNDER A ROCK. GOD DIDN'T MAKE THEM LIKE THAT.AND GOD UNINTELLIGIBLE THEY AIN'T GOING TO BE LIKE THAT.I'D RATHER PUSH THE BUTTON MYSELF.BY REMOTE CONTROL.LET'S PUSH IT.GET RID OF THEM.THEY DON'T STAND FOR NOTHING.I HATE TO SEE A MAN THAT GOT SOMETHING TO OFFER AND (THEY'RE)OUT THERE DOING SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S ON A LOW,UNINTEL- LIGIBLE BASE...I HATE TO SEE THAT!IT'S INEXCUSABLE.I'M NOT GOD. AND I'M NOT THE DEVIL SO THEY AIN'T GOING TO PRAY TO ME.THEY NOT (GOING)TO ASK FOR NO FORGIVNESS.AND I WOULDN'T EVEN TAKE THE ENERGY AND THE TIME TO MAKE A UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR SOMETHING CALLED M-A-N.JUST GET RID OF THEM.LIKE THEY GET RID OF ROACHES.GET IN MY WAY THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.THEY GET RID OF ROACHES.THEY GET RID OF ANTS.THEY GET RID OF ANYTHING THAT GET IN THEIR WAY.NOW,I DON'T WANT MAN IN MY WAY.I GOT SOMETHING TO DO ON THIS PLANET... AND THEY BETTER STAY OUT OF MY WAY.I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY GOING. GOD DON'T WANT THEM AND THE DEVIL DON'T EITHER.SO THEY GOT TO FACE ME.THEY GOT TO FACE ME.IF THEY GO TO HELL I'LL BE SITTING RIGHT UP THERE AND SAY,'WELL,THOUGHT'S YOU WAS GETTING AWAY, DIDN'T YOU.' THEY NOT ESCAPING.I'M NOT GOING TO LET MAN THAT THE CREATOR MADE DISGRACE THE CREATOR.NOW,THEY DISGRACING HIM.THEY DISGRACING THEYSELVE.THEY AIN'T SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THAT.BUT THEY BEEN GETTING BY.I GOT SOME NEWS FOR THEM.I'LL FIX IT SO LIFE WON'T WANT THEM AND DEATH EITHER.THEY GOT TO COME BACK BY ME. AND BE WHAT THEY SUPPOSED TO BE.EVERY ONE OF THEM.I DON'T CARE IF THEY IN THE GRAVE YARD.THEY GOT TO COME BACK BY ME.SOME IN THE FORM OF MAN.I KNOW WHAT MAN COULD HAVE DONE.SO HE HAD NO EXCUSE. IF I WASN'T'IN THE FORM OF MAN THEY'D HAVE EXCUSE.BUT I'VE ACHIEVED WONDERFUL THINGS.GOING TO ACHIEVE EVEN MORE AND THEREFORE THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF COLOR.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF RACE.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF NATION.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF RELIGION.NO EXCUSE BECAUSE OF SEX.MAN HAS NO EXCUSE! AND THEY DON'T HIM RUNNING TO GOD.THEY GET IN HIS ARMS.I SNATCH HIM OUT OF THERE.AND THEY BETTER NOT GO TO THE DEVIL.I SNATCH HIM OUT OF THERE AND SAY,'LOOK.FACE ME.'THAT IS FOR MAN.NOW,THEY CAN BELIEVE IT IF THEY WANT AND THEY CAN NOT BELIEVE IT.I DON'T CARE.I'M GETTING READY TO HAVE ME A GOOD TIME ON MAN'S ASS. (LAUGHTER) PETER HINDS:SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO START TO HAND OUT THOSE EVICTION NOTICES? SR:I'M THINKING ABOUT IT. JOHN HINDS:WELL,PETER CAN PRINT UP FIVE BILLION OF THEM.FIVE BILLION OUGHT TO DO IT. SR:I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.WHY, I'LL EVICT THEM OFF THE PLANET AND EVEN EVICT THEM OUT OF THE GRAVES.I DON'T CARE.AND I WANT TO SEE WHERE THEY'RE GOING.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE IN THERE GRAVES. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE NO MORE.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE BE- HIND RELIGION.NOT GOING TO HIDE BEHIND PHILOSOPHY.THEY AIN'T GOING TO HIDE BEHIND THEIR MENTAL CONDITIONS.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE BEHIND THEIR PHYSICAL CONDITIONS.THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HIDE FROM ME.I REFUSE TO ACCEPT MAN IN HIS PRESENT CONDITION. I AIN'T EVEN GOING TO SAY THEY(ARE)WRONG.I DON'T WANT TO INSULT WRONG.I DON'T EVEN WANT TO INSULT EVIL.THEY'RE NOT EVIL AND THEY'RE NOT GOOD.THEY AIN'T WORTH TWO CENTS AND A HALF.BLACK MAN IN PHILADELPHIA SAID THEY AIN'T WORTH TWO DEAD FLIES.HE SAID THAT ABOUT THE BLACK ONES.BUT THE WHITE ONES AIN'T NO GOOD EITHER ‘CAUSE THEY HAVEN'T CONQUERED NOTHING.GOT A BIG PLANET HERE. BEAUTIFUL PLANET.SITTING UP HERE BEING USED THE WRONG KIND OF WAY.AND ALL THESE PEOPLE HERE...THEY DON'T DO NOTHING EVERY DAY BUT THE SAME THING THAT'S BEEN DONE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. SOMETHING THAT'S INSIGNIFICANT.SOMETHING THAT'S DESTRUCTIVE. THAT'S NOT PROPER. JH:THEY SHOULD TRY SCRAPING THE POTENTIAL OF THINGS.INSTEAD OF JUST GOING AROUND IN A CIRCLE. SR:A LOT OF MEN CAN DO WONDERFUL THINGS.THEY SHUCKIN' AND JIVIN'. I'VE CAUGHT THEM.THEY JUST HALF DO THINGS.SOME MEN CAN'T DO THINGS.EUT THERE ARE A LOT OF MEN wHO CAN DO THINGS WHO HALF DO THINGS.NOW,THEY(ARE)SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING THE ONES wHO CAN'T... IF THEY COULD THEY wOULD.EUT THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR PART.AND THEY'RE NOT ENCOURAGING THOSE wHO ARE LIMI~ TED IN AEILITIES.THERE ARE SOME THAT'S LIMITED BUT ITS A POSSI- EILITY THEY COULD BE ENCOURAGED ENOUGH TO FINALLY REACH PAST THAT.BUT IT'S BAD FOR MAN wHO GOT THE POTENTIALS TO NOT USE THEM. IT'S wRONG. S - .-¢——.¢—-————-—._-pup:-—_...——-—.———-—.——a——--—._._——-—---—--—-—a—.—-—a-gs--:—.—-u——u——--—-—.—.———-—: SUN RA:THE CREATOR TOLD ME THAT MAN HAS FIVE MINUTES DURING THE DAY TO THINK.AFTER THAT HE SAY,'I DON'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THEM.'FIVE MINUTES DURING THE DAY HE SPEAKS CLEARLY.AND THAT'S WHERE THAT FIVE PERCENT COME IN. JOHN HINDS:FIVE PERCENT OF THE BRAIN? SR:UH HUH.IT'LL BE FIVE MINUTES.HE'LL SPEAK.YOU ASK HIM SOME- THING(AND)HE'LL BE VERY CLEAR AND IT WILL BE TRUTHFUL.IT WILL BE PROFOUND.IF YOU CAN CATCH THE FIVE MINUTES. I JH:THAT WOULD BE A TRICK. SR:YOU'VE GOT TO CATCH THAT FIVE MINUTES.OTHERWISE HE ONLY GOING TO REPEAT WHAT HE HEARD SOMEBODY ELSE SAY.WHAT HE READ.BUT THAT FIVE MINUTES HE'LL SPEAK WHAT HE FEELS.THAT'S THE DIFFICULTY.THAT GOES FOR THE RULERS,TOO.SO YOU SAYING,FIVE MINUTES TO THINK.AND THEY GOT TO VOTE ON SOMETHING.IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME FIVE MINUTES IT'S POSSIBLE,SOMETIME THAT COULD HAPPEN WHERE ALL OF THEM COULD HAVE THE SAME FIVE MINUTES.AND THEN SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN.JUST LIKE IN ENGLAND WHEN THEY WAS FIGHTING HITLER.SOME PEOPLE GOT TOGETHER AND JOINED HANDS UP THERE(AT)THE WHITE CLIFFS OF DOVER AND THEY WANTED(RUDOLPH)HESS TO LEAVE GERMANY.THEY FELT HE WAS THE BRAIN THEY HELD HANDS AND THEY TOLD HIM WHERE TO LAND. WHEN TO LEAVE AND HESS GOT INTO HIS PLANE AND HE CAME.HE LANDED WHERE THEY TOLD HIM AND THEY CAPTURED HIM.THEY WANTED THE SAME THING.AND,BASICALLY,THAT‘S WHY GERMANY LOST.WAS ON THE BRAIN. GONE.HE COULDN’T HELP HIMSELF.BECAUSE TWENTY OR MORE PEOPLE GOT TOGETHER AND HELD HANDS AND WISHED HIM OUT OF GERMANY.THAT JUST SHOW YOU WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN PEOPLE COOPERATE. JH:THAT'S AMAZING. PETER HINDS:HE'S STILL ALIVE,YOU KNOW. SR:YEAH.HE'S STILL ALIVE. PH:A PRISON FOR ONE. SR:YEAH,WELL,THAT'S THE WAY THEY DID IT.DID IT THROUGH THIS MIND THING.BUT,SEE,ALL THAT STUFF...I'VE RISEN UP ABOVE THAT.I'M NOT USING MY MIND.I'M USING MY SPIRIT.SO THE MIND STUFF...IT DOESN'T INTEREST ME.IT'S JUST THAT SPIRIT THAT I'M INTERESTED IN.SPIRIT BE GOING PLACES.CAN REACH THE CREATOR.CAN RUN OVER THERE AND UNINTELLIGIBLE WITH THE DEVIL(AND)COME OUT.CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS.IMPOSSIBLE THINGS.THAT'S ALL I KNOW ABOUT.THAT'S THE REASON I LOOK AT MEN NOW...I'M REALLY QUITE ASTOUNDED. MY SPIRIT BE LOOKING AT THEM.AND THEY MIGHT BE ALL RIGHT TO THE WORLD BUT TO ME THEY'RE NO GOOD.BUT ALL OF THIS...WHAT'S HAPPEN- ING ON THIS PLANET...THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT'S GOING TO RISE UP ABOVE THIS.SOME OF THEM ARE GOING TO DO IT.IT'S GOT TO BE NOW,TOO.IT'S GOT TO BE NOW. JH:YEAH.IT'S ABOUT TIME. SR:BUT,ACTUALLY,I DON'T WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.I MIGHT BE HOLDING UP THE DESTINY OF THE WORLD.'CAUSE I'M NOT A MINISTER OR NOTHING LIKE THAT.THEY GOT THEIR LEADERS AND THEY GOT THEIR RE- LIGION AND ALL...I'M NOT SUPPOSED...AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED I'M NOT TO SUPPOSED TO INTERFERE WITH WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT AND WRONG.IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.BUT THERE'S SOME KIND OF BEING THAT SAY,'WELL,INTERFERE ANYWAY.'INTERFERE ANYWAY.THAT'S WHAT I SAID IN SANTA CRUZ.TEENAGER.I WAS TALKING TO HIM.I SAY,'WELL,YOU KNOW, THE POINT IS THE GENERATION AHEAD OF YOU AND BEFORE,THEY DIDN'T PREPARE A W3AY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO SURVIVE.AND YOU LOST ‘CAUSE YOU AIN'T GOT NOTHING TO HOLD ONTO.YOU CAN'T LOOK TO THEM.THEY DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS COMING LIKE THIS SO THEY DIDN'T PREPARE NO WAY TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO.THEY DIDN'T PREPARE THAT.AND THEY MIGHT HAVE PREPARED SOME MONEY FOR YOU AND SOME POWER AND ALL THAT.BUT THEY DID NOT PREPARE A PATH FOR YOU TO SURVIVE.AND YOU(ARE)JUST HERE,YOU KNOW.JUST HERE.I SAID BUT I SAW ALL OF THAT YEARS AGO.AND I DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN WHAT YOUR PARENTS DID AND WHAT YOUR LEADERS DID.I DID NOT PARTICIPATE BECAUSE I KNEW THEY WAS COMING TO THIS.I SAW THAT.AND I DIDN'T GO THAT WAY. SO HE(THE TEENAGER)SAID...I SAID,'THEREFORE,SINCE I DIDN'T REALLY LIVE OR PARTICIPATE IN WHAT THEY DID,THAT GENERATION,I DON'T HAVE NO PART IN THIS PLANET.AND I'M NOT...IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.I DON'T HAVE TO INTERFERE.THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES.I DIDN'T LIVE MINE. I STAYED OUT OF IT.HE SAID(THE TEENAGER),BUT,YOU HAVE TO.YOU HAVE TOO.' JH:IT TAKES GUTS,THOUGH,TO STAND OUT,YOU KNOW.MOST PEOPLE PLAY IT SAFETHEY'RE NOT GOING TO STAND OUT AND TAKE A STAND. SR:IN MY CASE IT DOESN'T 'CAUSE I...WHAT I'M DEALING WITH IS SO IT'S INCREDIBLE.LIKE FOR INSTANCE,WHEN I WROTE THIS LETTER TO FRANCE AND I SAID,WELL,DON'T PUT OFF YOUR CULTURAL PROGRAMS.THIS CREATIVE PROGRAM UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR NEXT YEAR.DO IT NOW.USE MUSIC TO STAND FRANCE AND ITS POSSIBLE PLACE IN THE WORLD.MUSIC CAN SOOTHE THE SAVAGE BEAST(SIC).AND YOU GOT A SAVAGE BEAST OUT THERE WITH HIJACKS AND ALL.USE THAT MUSIC AND DO IT NOW.USE THE BEST YOU GOT IN ART.AND WHAT DID(THEY)DO?TALKING ABOUT l987.LOOK AT FRANCE.THAT MIGHT BE COINCIDENCE.BUT I TOLD THEM,I SAID, DO IT NOW.DON'T WAIT.'CAUSE YOU ARE FACING ANARCHY.AND THEY WAITED. WELL,WE GET THEIR BUREACRACY.YOU KNOW.NINETEEN EIGHTY SEVEN.LOOK AT THEM NOW.SO I KNOW WHAQT I'M TALKING ABOUT.THEY HAD A CHOICE. NOW THEY GOT ME SCARED TO COME OVER THERE.THE BUREACRATS,THEY DIDN'T SAY COME NOW.THEN I WOULD HAVE SAID NO.YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT WHEN I TOLD YOU.YOU SEE,THEY HESITATED BECAUSE THE FELLOW I SENT,THAT WAS OVER THERE REPRESENTING ME,THEY DIDN'T LIKE HIM.THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE WALKED.THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE TALKED.THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY HE DRESSED.AND THEY TOOK THE FIRST PROPOSAL AND THREW IT IN THE WASTE BASKET AND SAID,WELL,SUN RA CAN JUST COME.SO DANNY(THOMPSON)WENT OVER THERE. BUT,SEE,IN THE MEANTIME THEM OTHER FORCES GOT THEMSELVES TOGETHER WHILE THEY WAS WAITING. JH:AND SET IT BACK TO EIGHTY SEVEN. SR:THEY SET IT BACK AND NOW THEY IN TROUBLE.IT'S SO BAD IN FRANCE...I WAS TALKING TO SOME DANCERS...DANCER,SHE SAIS,PLEASE GET ME OUT OF FRANCE.SHE SAY THE NEWSPAPERS AND THE TV AND THE RADIO ARE NOT TELLING HALF THE TRUTHS.IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO DE- SCRIBE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN PARIS.GET OUT OF THERE.SHE STAYED THERE,YOU KNOW.SHE'S A FRENCH CITIZEN.SHE SAID THEY'RE NOT TELLING HALF THE TRUTH.SO THERE MUST BE A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENING THERE THAT THEY DON'T EVEN PUT IN THE PAPER.ALL KINDS OF ATTACKS IN OTHER SMALLER PLACES.GOT TO BE 'CAUSE HOW COULD SHE SAY IT'S WORSE THAN...IN FACT,WHEN DANNY WENT OVER THERE HE WAS ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN.SOMEBODY GOT ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN AND GOT OFF AND LEFT A PACKAGE THERE.EVERYBODY CAME IN AND NOBODY BOTHERED(THE PACKAGE).DANNY WATCHED IT.HE FINALLY GOT HIGHLY DISTURBED.HE WENT AND TOLD THE CONDUCTOR.WHEN THE CONDUCTOR CAME BACK THERE AND SAW IT HE STOPPED THE TRAIN.THEY HAD EVERYBODY GET OFF OR SOMETHING. AND THEN DANNY READ IN THE PAPER ABOUT THEY FOUND A BOMB THAT HADN'T EXPLODED.SO SEE?GO ON THAT TRAIN.SO THEN HE HAD TO COME HOME...HE CAME ON BACK HERE.AFTER THAT HE HAD TO GET OUT OF PARIS.HE WAS OVER THERE NEGOTIATING FOR ME BUT NOW WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.WE SUPPOSED TO GO THERE AND PLAY FOR AN ANNIVERSARY FOR A PLACE BUT,YOU KNOW,THAT...I DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT 'CAUSE THEY IN TROUBLE NOW.I TOLD THEM YOU'RE ON THE DEFENSE WITH THIS MUSIC.DANNY.WHEN YOU WERE ON THE SUBWAY TRAIN IN PARIS.WHAT HAPPENED? DANNY THOMPSON:WELL,THEY HAD THIS...I SAW THIS BAG.BRAND NEW BAG. I GOT ON THERE IT WAS LAYING UP UNDER THE SEAT,YOU KNOW.IT WAS LIKE SITTING UP BY THE DOOR.SO THIS GUY IS SITTING THERE.I THOUGHT IT WAS HIS.SO HE GOT OFF AND I DIDN'T REALLY NOTICE IT 'TILL I LOOKED BACK IN.I SAID NOW SOMEBODY ELSE IS ON AND THE BAG SITTING THERE.AND THEY GOT OFF AND WITH NOBODY SITTING THERE AND THE BAG WAS THERE.JUST ME ON THIS CAR,YOU KNOW.IT KEPT GOING AND GOING.I GOT TO MY STOP.I SAID,YOU NOW WHAT?I THINK SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS BAG'CAUSE IT'S A_BRAND NEW BAG.IT WAS A BIG BAG. IT WAS LIKE THIS.I SAID SOMETHING WRONG.SO I GOT OFF AT MY STOP AND I RAN AND TOLD THE CONDUCTOR.I WAS ABOUT TWO CARS UP AND, YOU KNOW,HE DIDN'T SPEAK ANY ENGLISH BUT I THINK HE UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS A BOMB OR THERE WAS SOME BAG ON THERE THAT WASN'T...DIDN'T BELONG TO WHAT IT BELONGED TO.AND HE SAID,'OH! WHY,I GOT ONE MORE-STOP!SEE YOU1ZOO0M!(SUN RA LAUGHS)SO I READ ON THE NEWS THAT NIGHT THAT THERE WAS A BOMB FOUND ON THE SUB- WAY.I TOLD HIM.HEY,THERE'S A BAG THERE.NOBODY AROUND.HE SAID. UH OH.'(SUN RA LAUGHS) CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . . . . . . . . . .. OCTOBER 1,1986...KONCEPTS...OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:I CAME FROM A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WERE MORE SOCIAL,I SUPPOSE.BIRMINGHAM.THEY HAD A LOT OF SOCIAL CLUBS THERE.I MEAN NOT BARS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.I MEAN,ACTUAL INDIVIDUALS.THEY DIDN'T HAVE A BUILDING OR NOTHING LIKE THAT.THEY JUST HAD THEIR DIFFERENT SOCIAL CLUBS.AND THEY'D HAVE FUNCTIONS.EACH CLUB WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TWICE A YEAR(AND)INVITE THE OTHER CLUBS.AND THEY'D BE DRESSED.AND THAT'S THE WAY I WAS RAISED UP.I WOULD PLAY WITH THEM AND THEY'D BE DRESSED.THEY'D HAVE THEIR STUFF ON.EACH CLUB WOULD BE TRYING TO OUTDO THE OTHER IN CLOTHES AND THEN THEY'D HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A FUND RAISING THING.THEY'D HAVE TWO THINGS. THE ONE THEY WOULDN'T DRESS.BUT THE MAIN ONE WAS SOMETHING ELSE. IT WAS BEAUTIFUL...I NEVER PLAYED IN ANY BARS OR NOTHING...I PLAYED JUST FOR THEM.SO THEN I KNEW A LOT OF DANCE NUMBERS.THEY KNEW ALL THOSE MUSICAL UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY DANCED...A NICE, IARISTOCRATIC SOCIAL...THAT WAS THE WAY IT WAS.AND THEY'D HAVE THEM EVERY WEEK.EVERY WEEK YOU'D GO TO PROBABLY TWO AFFAIRS'CAUSE SOME AFFAIRS WERE,LIKE,THE LESSER ONES.THEY HAD THEIR AFFAIRS, TOO.THEY WERE JUST BUILDING THEMSELVES UP.BUT THEY HAD NICE AFFAIRS.IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT THE MORE AMAZED I AM THAT I WAS IN THAT ENVIRONMENT,YOU KNOW. JOHN HINDS:SO THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK FOR YOU IN BIRMINGHAM.YOU WERE ALWAYS PLAYING AND PLAYING AND PLAYING. sR:YEA§. JH:AND LIKE YOU WERE SAYING THE OTHER NIGHT.IT WASN'T ALL FOR BLACK FOLKS,TOO.THERE WAS THAT WHITE GUY WHO PHONED YOU UP AND THE BLACK MUSICIANS UNION SAID YOU DON'T WANT HIM(SUN RA)AND HE PHONED YOU BACK AND SAID NO,NO,I DO WANT YOU.'CAUSE YOU ARE THE BEST BAND WE'VE GOT. ; SR:YEAH.THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.BUT I HAD A LOT OF JEALOUSIES,YOU KNOW.HAD THE BEST BAND WITHOUT QUESTION.MADE THE OTHER BANDS JEALOUS'CAUSE,YOU SEE,THEY HAD GOOD BANDS BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOBODY THAT COULD ARRANGE BACK THEN. THAT'S WHAT DID THE TRICK.IT WAS THE HEAD ARRANGEMENTS.THEY COULDN'T PLAY THEM WITHOUT ME SO THAT WAS IT AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS TODAY.IF I LET SOMEBODY HAVE SOME OF THESE ARRANGEMENTS... IF I'M NOT THERE...NOBODY PLAYS PIANO THE WAY I'M PLAYING IT,SEE. THEIR TOUCH IS DIFFERENT.AND,THEREFORE,THE ARRANGEMENTS WOULDN'T SOUND...IT'S JUST LIKE DUKE.YOU KNOW.SINCE HE BEEN GONE THEY HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN ABLE TO GET A PIANO PLAYER THAT COULD MAKE THE BAND SOUND LIKE HE DID. I 5.. JH:YEAH.WELL,HE HAD A SPECIAL TOUCH JUST LIKE YOU.JUST ONE NOTE. AND THAT'S KIND OF FUNNY ON A PIANO THAT'S A MECHANICAL INSTRU- MENT.YOU'RE NOT EVEN TOUCHING THE STRING BUT YET,BANG AND YOU CAN TELL IT'S DUKE.YOU CAN TELL IT'S YOU,YOU KNOW.THAT DOESN'T COME OVER NIGHT. SR:YEAH.WELL,IT'S OUT IN THE OPEN NOW.PEOPLE CAN COMPARE.THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING TO COMPARE.OR THEY COULDN'T DISCRIMINATE. THEY HAD TO GO BY WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE SAID.NOW THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT NO MORE.THEY HEAR FOR THEMSELVES. ’ JH:DID YOU EVER DO ANY RECORDING WITH THOSE BANDS? SR:WELL,FOR TWO YEARS I DID SOMETHING FOR RIPPLE TOBACCO EVERY DAY. JH:THAT'S A COMPANY THAT'S...I DON'T THINK AROUND ANY MORE. SR:DEEP SOUTH.IT WAS ON THE RADIO EVERY DAY.NOON. PETER HINDS:LIVE BROADCAST? SR:LIVE RHYTHM AND BLUES BROADCAST.I WAS THE ARRANGER FOR THEM. AND PLAYING WITH THEM. PH:LATE THIRTIES? SR:SOMETHING LIKE THAT. JH:AND THAT WAS A BROADCAST OUT OF_BIRMINGHAM? SR:IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BROADCAST IN OTHER SOUTHERN CITIES,TOO. JH:SO YOU'D GO DOWNTOWN TO THE RADIO STATION? SR:EVERY DAY. JH:THAT'S SOME EXPERIENCE. SR:YEAH.AND THE FELLOWS IN THE QUARTET,THEY COULDN'T READ,YOU KNOW,MUSIC SO I HAD TO ARRANGE FOR THEM BY EAR YOU MIGHT SAY. JH:AND THEN THEY'D HAVE TO MEMORIZE IT? SR:YEAH.THEY DID A GOOD JOB. JH:THAT'S WHAT'S AMAZING ABOUT SOME OF THOSE FLETCHER HENDERSON THINGS.HEAD ARRANGEMENTS.YOU KNOW,THAT ARE JUST...THEY'RE SO INTRICATE AND BEAUTIFUL.... SR:FANTASTIC. JH:AND THEY'RE HEAD ARRANGEMENTS£WASN'T ANY MUSIC UNTILL... SR:THEY'D HUM THE PARTS. JH:IS THAT HOW IT WOULD GO BACK THEN?HUM IT. SR:YEAH.I MEAN,WHEN I FIRST STARTED TO PLAYING NOBODY HAD TO TELL ME TOO MUCH.I’D HEAR SOMETHING(AND)PLAY IT.AND THEY'D PUT THE HARMONY TO IT.THAT'S THE WAY TRUE JAZZ IS DONE.LIKE THAT.THE WORLD JUST CATCHING UP WITH ME'CAUSE THEY HAD A LOT OF CHROMATICS IN THERE THAT,SEEMINGLY,DIDN'T BELONG IN THE CHORD.....THAT'S THE REASON JAZZ IS DIFFERENT.'CAUSE THEY WASN'T LEARNING IT IN SCHOOL.THEY PLAYED WHAT THEY HEARD AND THEY HEARD STRANGE HARMONIES.AND THAT'S THE REASON FLETCHER SOUNDS SO GOOD BECAUSE THEY GOT THESE HARMONIES IN THERE.THEY AIN'T LIKE NOBODY ELSES. THE HARMONIES ARE FANTASTIC. JH:THAT ALWAYS AMAZES ME.THOUGH,WHEN YOU CHECK IT OUT.THAT'S A HEAD ARRANGEMENT!AND IT'S SO COMPLEX AND SO TOGETHER.IT'S AMAZING. SR:THEY COULD WRITE JUST FOR THE FIRST ALTO PART.AND EVERYBODY ' ELSE PLAY THEIR PART.THEY'D PLAY THE HARMONY.IT'S BEAUTIFUL. .JH:WOULD THAT BE KIND OF A STANDARD APPROACH?WOULD THE TENOR THINK I'LL TAKE THE THIRD?OR WOULD THEY JUST LISTEN AND JUST ADD IT IN AND WORK IT OUT?WAS IT SOME KIND OF ARRANGEMENT CON- CEPT? 'SR:IT WAS SOME KIND OF FEELING LIKE THEY HAD THIS CLOSED CIRCUIT OF MUSICIANS WHO PLAYED THAT WAY.IT WAS A CLOSED CIRCUIT.NOT EVERYBODY COULD FIT IN THAT BAND.THEY MIGHT BE JUST STARTING BUT IF THEY HAD THE FEELING FLETCHER WOULD HIRE THEM....THAT'S-THE REASON HE KEPT ME.'CAUSE I WAS DOING SOMETHING ELSE.STUFF SMITH SAID SO,TOO.COLEMAN HAWKINS,TOO.THEY SAID I WAS DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.AND THEY SAID THEY COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY I HADN'T BEEN DISCOVERED.THAT'S WHAT STUFF SAID.HE SAID,'ONE DAY THEY WILL.BUT I'M AMAZED THAT THEY HAVEN'T.'ONE TIME I WAS PLAYING PIANO FOR A GIRL WHO WAS TAKING AN AUDITION.JOHN HAMMOND. JH:IS THAT RIGHT?AND JOHN HAMMOND LET YOU SLIP THROUGH HIS FINGERS? SR:I WAS PLAYING SOMETHING UNDER HER FOR HER TO SING AND ALL AT ONCE HE JUMPED UP AND CAME OVER AND LOOKED AT ME AND SAID,'PLAY THAT AGAIN.'AND HE ALMOST WOKE UP.HE DIDN'T WAKE UP.WELL,HE DIDN'T HIRE THE SINGER.(CONTINUED NEXT ISSUE). :2n:.;'¢-x.:.2;~..-_.- I . ~ -... ._ . ‘ -= " ,4.-_,...wa.«-.:.:...4.*=v.xv_-.~‘;'.;'..,.A,._.. I _‘.g.g,.,._.,,_,< __ ‘V _ a *- . S E” H . C. M T. E. W... A. E B _A_ /.5 ,/// : Friday, Saturday & SLznday;:4.niJtesE // 1; I A I . ; E I , :0/V5 WORLD FAM/L Y ’, /?.*/my//’.':/)/2' 11! //.'Ls'reOY/'/I 8:’/'/\O:c§;'f/2" n I E i I I 21,:///IIIIIII I I I\\\\\\\\\i\. 3' ADVERTISEMENT FOR SUN RA'S CONCERTS AT THE ONE WORLD FAMILY CENTER IN BERKELEY,CALIF. OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER l974.NOW THE SITE OF AMOEBA RECORDS. DENZIL MCNEELANCE MAASHALL ALLEN NEW YORK 1991 PHOTO:RICHARD MAYEDA PHOTOGRAPH OF SUN RA FROM THE EARLY TO MID FIFTIES. . . FIRST PUBLISHED IN OTTO FLUCKINGER'SV JAZZ STATISTICS IN MARCH 196l.SUPPLIED BY HARTMUT GEERKEN. Now": DON’T WANTMAN INMY wAv. I c.oT soMETHINcTo no oNTHIs PLANET. . . AN|>*’THEv BETTER STAY our OFTMY WAY. I» DON'T «Now wHEnETHEv ao|N<.. cop DON'T WANT THEM AND THE DEVIL DON'T T ‘ AE|TLHAEIz_;’ so THEY aoT To EA<EME. THEY aoigm EAEEME. IF THEY so To HELL l’|.L BE s|TTINamgHT up THE RE AND SAY, ‘WE LL, ETHOIJQGHTSIAYOU wAs GETTING AwAv, DIDNJTYOUP THEY NoT ESCAPING. I'M NOT coA|NT“aT To LET THAT THE CREATOR MADE DISGRACE THE <nEATon. suN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-12
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 13 (September, 1997)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1997-09-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: -3 1 '3 f E S CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND_PETER‘HINDS.. . . . . . . . . . . .. OCTOBER 1,1986...KONCEPTS...OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA.....Q....;.‘ . . . . . .. CONTINUED PROM ISSUE TWELVE . . . . ... . . . . . .; . . . . ....;..; . . . . . . . . . . .. JOHN-HINDS:AND HE DIDN'T "DISCOVER YOU OR ELEVATE YOU_TO....'I SUN RA:HE HEARD SOMETHING AND HE WAS SURPRISED.SOMETHING I PLAYED.SO THAT'S THE WAY IT'S STANDING NOW. JH:NOW,WHERE WAS THAT? SR:THAT wAS IN NEw YORK CITY.DOwN IN THE VILLAGE.SPRING'STREET_OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.IN ORNETTE COLEMAN'S PLACE. . I % JH:SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE 1960 OR 61? SR; WELL,IT WAS WHEN ORNETTE COLEMAN HAD HIS STUDIO IN NEW YORK.IT WAS THEN.HE TRIED.IN A SENSE,HE DIDN'T MAKE IT IN NEW YORK.HE UNINTELLIGIBLE LIKE THE GUGGENHEIM AND,YOU KNOW,ART PLACES.BUT AS FAR AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS CONCERNED,UNINTELLIGIBLE.'CAUSE HE NEVER DID PLAY PLACES LIKE SWEET BASIL.BUT HE CHANGED. I HEAR HE'S ...
Show more-3 1 '3 f E S CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND_PETER‘HINDS.. . . . . . . . . . . .. OCTOBER 1,1986...KONCEPTS...OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA.....Q....;.‘ . . . . . .. CONTINUED PROM ISSUE TWELVE . . . . ... . . . . . .; . . . . ....;..; . . . . . . . . . . .. JOHN-HINDS:AND HE DIDN'T "DISCOVER YOU OR ELEVATE YOU_TO....'I SUN RA:HE HEARD SOMETHING AND HE WAS SURPRISED.SOMETHING I PLAYED.SO THAT'S THE WAY IT'S STANDING NOW. JH:NOW,WHERE WAS THAT? SR:THAT wAS IN NEw YORK CITY.DOwN IN THE VILLAGE.SPRING'STREET_OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.IN ORNETTE COLEMAN'S PLACE. . I % JH:SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE 1960 OR 61? SR; WELL,IT WAS WHEN ORNETTE COLEMAN HAD HIS STUDIO IN NEW YORK.IT WAS THEN.HE TRIED.IN A SENSE,HE DIDN'T MAKE IT IN NEW YORK.HE UNINTELLIGIBLE LIKE THE GUGGENHEIM AND,YOU KNOW,ART PLACES.BUT AS FAR AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS CONCERNED,UNINTELLIGIBLE.'CAUSE HE NEVER DID PLAY PLACES LIKE SWEET BASIL.BUT HE CHANGED. I HEAR HE'S CHANGING OVER TO ROCK AND DIFFERENT THINGS NOW.I HEARD THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW TRUE IT IS. JH:THINGS SEEM TO BE REALLY MOVING AHEAD AS FAR AS PEOPLE BECOMING AWARE OF YOU.IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE GETTING MORE WRITE UPS. ' SR:THE COSMO DRUMMER IS ME,YOU KNOW.IF THEY CAN TAKE IT... JOHN GILMORE:THAT WAS HEAVY TONIGHT.THE COSMO DRUMMER WAS HEAVY.HE WAS HEAVY.HE STARTED OFF HEAVY. SR:'CAUSE THAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING.ABOUT PSYCHIC THINGS. JH:WHAT KIND OF THINGS ARE YOU THINKING OF? SR:IT'S JUST REACHING INTO THE EMPTY AIR AND FEELING wHAT YOU HEAR.IT's WHAT YOU SEE WITH YOUR MIND'S EYE.AND YOU SPEAK THAT.AND KEEP ON MOvING.AND ONCE YOU SPEAK IT IT BECOMES YOUR wAY.I MEAN,YOU HAVE TO POLLOw THAT PATH.UNTILL YOU CHANGE. (AT THIS POINT SUN RA PALLS ASLEEP POR FOURTY SECONDS) YEAH I GOT A LOT OP IDEAS NOw.PRACTICALLY ALL THOSE ARRANGEMENTS MIGHT BE CHANGED.(I)HEAR SOMETHING ELSE.THAT'S THE REASON I'M PLAYING GONE WITH THE wIND BUT ONCE'CAUSE I HEAR SOMETHING ELSE. THAT MAKES IT DIPPICULT FOR THE FELLOWS IN THE EAND.THEY LEARN A SONG AND ALL AT ONCE,EOOM.IT CHANGE.THE wHOLE THING CHANGE.IT'S HARD. PM - —..—..——.-.——--_—..._———————._..__...-.-_._————-.--.—..—.—n——¢.—.—.———.————..-.——¢—---—--——c-—.——¢—.—— JOHN HINDS:NOW,IN CHICAGO I WAS READING THAT THING(ARTICLE)AND IT WAS SAYING THAT YOU WERE STAYING IN A HOTEL AND YOU STAYED IN YOUR ROOM FOR A MONTH AND YOU HAD CONTACT WITH EXTRATERRESTIALS. IS THAT CORRECT?OR SUPERIOR BEINGS THAT NOTIFIED YOU.NOW,WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?YOU DECIDED JUST TO GO INTO YOUR ROOM AND TRY AND MAKE CONTACT? SUN RA:WELL,IT'S JUST PLAYING WITH FEELING.JUST BEING.IT ISN'T ABOUT CONTACT NOW.ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. JH:YEAH.BUT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT.IT WAS KIND OF INTERESTING.MORE THAN JUST KIND OF INTERESTING(LAUGHS). SR:IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE.AND THIS SOMETHING ELSE IS GETTING READY TO KNOCK ON EVERYBODY'S DOOR.IT'S SOMETHING ELSE.MORE FRIGHTFUL THAN DEATH,REALLY.BECAUSE IT'S NOT DEATH.IT'S NOT LIFE, EITHER.BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FACE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT LIFE AND NOT DEATH.THEY NEVER HAD TO FACE THAT BEFORE. 'CAUSE THEY COULD EQUATE.THEY COULD EQUATE DEATH....THIS IS SOMETHING THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO EQUATE.AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND JOHN HINDS...SEPTEMBER 30,1986..... ONE AM...NEW GEORGE'S...SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO HAVE PEOPLE WITH ME WHO ARE OBEDIENT BECAUSE THEIR SAFETY IS AT STAKE.LIKE,WE WAS GETTING READY TO GO...I TOLD DANNY(THOMPSON),I SAID LET'S GO ACROSS THIS BRIDGE HERE AND GO ACROSS THE STREET(MEANT TO SAY BRIDGE)INSTEAD OF GOING ACROSS THE STREET'CAUSE I SAID THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC THERE.DANNY SAY,WELL,WE PUSHED FOR TIME AND IT'S QUICKER ACROSS THE STREET SO HERE HE GO ACROSS THE STREET ALMOST HALF A BLOCK AHEAD OF ME.WIDE STREET.AND THIS BUS WAS GETTING READY TO TURN THE CORNER'CAUSE GREG(?)WAS WITH ME AND I SAW THE BUS HAD A LOT OF ROOM TO TURN...IT WAS A BIG BUS.SO IT WASN'T GOING TO BOTHER US BECAUSE THERE WAS PLENTY OF ROOM TO WALK THERE...IT WASN'T NO SIDEWALK.THE CARS WAS THERE PARKED BUT ALL AT ONCE I TOLD GREG, I SAID,RUN BACKWARDS.HE DIDN'T ASK WHY.HE JUST STEPPED BACK... AND THEN THE BUS HIT THE FIRST CAR.WHEN IT HIT THE FIRST CAR IT PUSHED THE OTHER CARS UP-BAM,BAM,BAM,BAM.SEE.AND WE WOULD HAVE GOT ,YOU KNOW.IF I HAD TOLD HIM(TO)GO BETWEEN THE CARS(AND)I DID NOT SAY,RUN BACKWARDS,AND THAT'S HOW CLOSE IT WAS IN EGYPT. ALL THE PEOPLE CAME RUNNING ACROSS THE STREET.THEY THOUGHT(FOR) SURE I WAS HURT.THAT BIG OLD BUS.AND THAT BUS KEPT GOING.LIKE THE MAN IN IT WAS NOT EVEN DRIVING IT.,CAUSE THEM FORCES CAN TAKE A MAN AND THEY JUST...THAT'S THE WAY THEY BE DOING(TO) PEOPLE IN ACCIDENTS.THEY TAKE OVER THEM PEOPLE AND THEN BAMl PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN AWARE OF IT.AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. HE WASN'T EVEN AWARE THAT HE'D HIT THAT FIRST CAR.AND HE HIT THE NEXT ONE.BAM,BAM,BAMlAND EVERYBODY TOLD US...THIS DANCER TO GO BETWEEN THE CARS. § § —~ .- «-—-A ~ - .. ...-.....-...-«~=._,«... . . -. _ ‘ ,‘__,'_ _,_,_ _v_Ar:_ :S\ ~;wx‘\-,:.yL~ *4- INTERVIEW WITH DALE WILLIAMS....SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA......... NOVEMBER 11,1996........... . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . ...... . . . . ........... PETER HINDS:HOW DID YOU MEET SUN RA?HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?YOU WERE FIFTEEN YEARS OLD IN CHICAGO. DALE WILLIAMS:I THINK I MET HIM AT THE JAZZ SHOWCASE'CAUSE THEY WOULD LET KIDS IN.AND ME AND MY BEST FRIEND,OSCAR BROWN THE THIRD,WENT TO THE SHOW AND I GUESS THAT MUST HAVE BEEN MAYBE 72 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.'CAUSE WE WERE REAL LITTLE.WE HAD TO GO TO THE FIRST SHOW. PH:WAS THIS IN THE AFTERNOON? DW:NO.IT WAS EARLY EVENING.AND THE GUY KNEW US 'CAUSE WE WERE THE ONLY TWO KIDS IN CHICAGO THAT WENT TO JAZZ CONCERTS.AND THEN I WAS PLAYING WITH OSCAR BROWN JR.AND I CAME TO PHILADELPHIA SO HE (SUN RA)GAVE ME HIS NUMBER AND CAME BY TO SEE ME AT THE SHOW AND THEN I WENT BY THE HOUSE.AND THEN I FELL ASLEEP AND THEN EARLY IN THE MORNING HE HAD THIS STAR MACHINE AND HE THREW THE STARS UP ON THE CEILING AND WE HAD A CONVERSATION AND PLAYED.AND THEN,I _THINK,AFTER THAT,THE NEXT DAY... V PH:WAS HE PLAYING PIANO OR SOME KEYBOARD? DW:HE WAS PLAYING A CRUMAR.THE NEXT DAY OR SOMEWHERE IN THAT VICINITY AFTER DOING...I WAS IN NEW YORK AND PHILADELPHIA A LOT AT THAT TIME PLAYING WITH OSCAR BROWN JR.AND,I THINK,THE FIRST GIG I DID WAS THE ANTIQUE BLACKS(ALBUM)AND THAT WAS THE RECORD THEY HAD. PH:HAD YOU REHEARSED A LITTLE BIT PRIOR TO THAT? DW:NO.WE JUST SAT AROUND AND TALKED AND VIBED BECAUSE I CAME UP PRETTY MUCH IN THE CHICAGO TRADITION OF BLUES AND JAZZ ARTISTS THERE.PROBABLY THE LAST OF THAT KIND OF SCHOOL WHERE BEING INFLUENCED...I WAS INFLUENCED BY SUN RA EVEN BEFORE I MET HIM. AND ANOTHER GROUP I PLAYED WITH WAS CALLED THE PHAROAHS AND PHIL COHRAN.AND I WAS DOING MY OWN SHOWS.I HAD MY OWN BAND THEN CALLED DEEP SPACE AND WE PLAYED SUN RA TUNES AND FREE STUFF WHILE WE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL.LIKE,I USED TO PLAY ASTRO BLACK A LOT.UNMASK THE BATMAN.THIS PLANET THREE.USED TO DO THAT ONE A LOT.ROCKET NUMBER NINE TO VENUS.THAT WAS PART OF MY HIGH SCHOOL BAND.THAT WAS OUR REPERTOIRE THAT WE WOULD PLAY AT THE TALENT SHOWS.WE'D BRING OUT THESE GUYS THAT WERE MUCH OLDER THAN US TO PLAY TO PLAY SAXOPHONE.I REMEMBER ONE TALENT SHOW THEY TRIED TO SHUT ME DOWN AND I HAD ALL THESE GUYS COMING OFF THE STREETS PLAYING SAXOPHONE AND HOLDING THE CURTAINS AND PLAYING ALL OVER THE PRINCIPAL. ' (LAUGHS)MADE A REALLY BIG IMPACT AT KENWOOD HIGH,THERE. u 9 WE HAD OUR OWN SPACE SUITS AND EVERYTHING.BUT I ALSO SOLD FLUTES AND PAN PIPES THERE AND HARPS.IN CHICAGO I USED TO MAKE INSTRU- MENTS.SO THEN I STARTED PLAYING WITH HIM(SUN RA),I GUESS IT WAS RIGHT AFTER I PLAYED WITH LITTLE MILTON ’CAUSE I WAS PLAYING WITH OSCAR AND I WAS JUST STARTING TO DO BIG TOURS THEN.'CAUSE THE FIRST GIG WITH OSCAR WAS WITH MILES DAVIS. PH:WHERE WAS THIS? DW:IN CHICAGO.AND THAT WAS ABOUT FOUR MONTHS BEFORE I CAME OUT HERE(1974). PH:WAS MILES A BIG INFLUENCE ON YOU AT THAT TIME? DW:YEAH.I DUG MILES.I DUG MILES A LOT.I EVEN WENT TO VISIT HIM ONCE AND SAT AROUND AND TALKED WITH HIM. PH:WHERE WAS THIS? DW:IN NEW YORK WHEN HE STAYED ON 77TH STREET. PH:WHAT YEAR WAS THIS? DW:MAYBE 75 OR 76.1 JUST KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR.BUT I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH HIS NEPHEW VINCE WILBURN.VINCE,RANDY(HALL) AND I ALL HUNG OUT. PH:HOW LONG WERE YOU WITH SUN RA7 DW:I WAS WITH SUN RA QUITE A BIT EXCEPT I TOOK OTHER GIGS LIKE OSCAR(BROWN)OR I DID LITTLE MILTON.I ALWAYS DID SOME THINGS FOR VARIETY.AND THEN I PLAYED FOR BYARD LANCASTER.AT THAT AGE I WOULD GO TO A CITY AND CAMP OUT.I WAS IN NEW YORK FOR A WHILE.JUST SORT OF THERE AND THEN I WOULD COME DOWN FOR REHEARSAL OR STAY AT THE HOUSE(SUN RA'S HOUSE AT 5626 MORTON STREET IN PHILADELPHIA).AND I DID A LOT OF THE EAST COAST STUFF.BALTIMORE AND ALL THAT.AND THEN EVERY NOW AND THEN I WOULD TAKE A BREAK AND DO SOMETHING ELSE OR GO HOME TO CHICAGO,'CAUSE I WAS STILL RELATIVELY YOUNG, AND SEE MY FRIENDS AND HANG OUT AND THERE I WOULD PLAY AT THE CHECKERBOARD WITH BUDDY GUY AND JUNIOR WELLS AND JAMES COTTON. PH:YOU CAME OUT HERE IN 74.SEPTEMBER,OCTOBER,NOVEMBER AND DECEM- BER TO SAN FRANCISCO AND LIVED OUT HERE AND PLAYED WITH SUN RA. HOW WAS THE ROAD WITH SUN RA? DW:HE FLEW ME MOST PLACES.IF IT WAS A SHORT DISTANCE I'D CATCH THE TRAIN.BUT TRAVEL FOR ME WAS FINE.THE WAY I CAME DOWN HERE: ME AND WALTER(MILLER)AND TANI TABAL DROVE DOWN IN WALTER'S CAR FROM PHILADELPHIA.HIS CADILLAC.I HAD A BALL WITH WALTER.I SAW SPACESHIPS WHILE I WAS IN THE DESERT... PH:I GOT TO STOP YOU THERE.TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SPACESHIPS IN THE DESERT. DW:I JUST SAW,YOU KNOW,DRIVING ALONG ONE NIGHT JUST SAW THEM UP THERE.I JUST WOKE UP AND THERE'S SOME SPACESHIPS IN THE AIR.I LOOKED AND I KNEW THEY WERE GIVING US SAFE PASSAGE TO CALIFORNIA. AND THEN WE ARRIVED HERE. DW:I USED TO WALK WITH HIM AND SEE PEOPLE DO WEIRD STUFF AND HE WOULD POINT IT OUT.LOOK AT THEM.YOU SEE THAT?AND WE'D GET A LAUGH.I REMEMBER WHEN WE DID THE ANTIQUE BLACKS(ALBUM)HE TOOK ME TO THE MOVIES.AND TOOK ME TO THE GUITAR STORE IN DOWNTOWN PHILA- DELPHIA.WENT SHOPPING THERE AND WENT AND SAW A MOVIE CALLED RUDY RAY MOORE.THE DEVIL'S SON IN LAW.AND THEY HAD THIS ONE SCENE THAT HE REALLY LIKED WAS THAT THE GUY PLAYING THE PIANO WAS THE SON OF THE DEVIL AND(THE PIANO)WAS BLOWING UP AND FALLING APART'CAUSE THEY WERE HAVING THE BATTLE AND HE SAID,'SEE,HERE'S THE BATTLE RIGHT THERE.'AND THIS MOVIE HAS THIS SCENE IN IT.IT'S GREAT IF YOU CAN SEE IT.AND WE SAW DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND DIFFERENT SPIRITS AND HE WOULD POINT THINGS OUT'CAUSE HE WAS VERY JOVIAL.SOMETIMES OUR RELATIONSHIP WAS NOT ONLY AS A BAND MEMBER BUT MAYBE LIKE A UNCLE OR FATHER.HE WOULD TAKE ME OUT TO DO THINGS THAT HE'D THINK THAT I'D WANT TO DO AS A YOUNG PERSON.BUT HE WOULD HANG OUT WITH ME AT THE RECORD STORES AND PEOPLE WOULD SEE US AND SAY,'WOW! WHO'S THIS?'AND SOMETIMES I WOULD DRESS EXACTLY LIKE HIM AND WE'D BE OUT.AND I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOME OF THOSE PICTURES.BUT FOR THE MOST PART I JUST SORT OF LIVED IT.IT WASN'T A CONSCIENCE THING LIKE MAYBE SOME PEOPLE MIGHT MAKE CHOICES LIKE THAT IN THEIR ADULT LIFE.THIS IS PRETTY MUCH HOW I LIVED AT THAT TIME. NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT MONEY OR STUFF LIKE THAT.IT WAS JUST ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC AND BEING IN A SPACE WHERE I WAS ABLE TO CULTIVATE MY TALENTS AND NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME FOR ME TO COME OUT. PH:CAN YOU RECALL ANY STRANGE OR FUNNY,INTERESTING INCIDENTS THAT HAPPENED ON THE BANDSTAND WITH SUN RA? DW:I REMEMBER ONE TIME WE PLAYED SOME CLUB.IT WAS DOWN HERE IN THIS AREA(IN SAN FRANCISCO)AND THE HAIGHT STREET DIVISADERO AREA. AND THERE WAS THIS GUY‘WHO WAS A MUSLIM AND HIS WIFE WAS A CHRISTIAN AND THEY WERE HAVING AN ARGUMENT WHILE WE WERE PLAYING AND ME AND SUN RA WERE KIND OF LAUGHING.WE KIND OF TONED THE MUSIC DOWN TO HEAR THEM HAVE THIS ARGUMENT.I THOUGHT IT WAS AMUSING BECAUSE HE WAS EXPOUNDING STUFF FROM A MUSLIM VIEW AND SHE WAS EXPOUNDING FROM A CHRISTIAN VIEW BUT SOMEHOW AT THE END OF THE SHOW HE CAME UP AND SAID HOW THE MUSIC PUT THEM BACK , TOGETHER.AND I GOT A LAUGH OUT OF THAT. DALE WILLIAMS AT OPEN MIND MUSIC NOVEMBER ll,l996.SAN FRANCISCO PHOTO :PETER HINDS .—_._.—-—.__-———..——._—_._.—————_..__.._._————.-__...———._-—.—-.——_—._———-—-_—_.—_.—_..__._-—._——.__ DW:SO I USED TO SHARE A ROOM WITH JOHN(AT THE HOUSE IN PHILADELPHIA)AND I USED TO GET UP WHEN HE'D GET UP AND WE'D START PLAYING AND I WOULD TRY TO IMITATE OR FIND OUT HOW DID HE DO ALL OF THESE PERMUTATIONS.AND I LEARNED MORE THAN I'VE FORGOTTEN.I HAVE TO GET BACK INTO THAT ZONE TO BRING IT ALL OUT BUT EACH ONE OF THEM(JOHN GILMORE, MARSHALL ALLEN AND OTHER BAND MEMBERS)I LEARNED A DIFFERENT WAY TO EXPRESS SAME THINGS OR DIFFERENT THINGS.ALSO BY KNOWING EACH ONE OF THEM WHEN WE PLAYED WE WERE ABLE TO DO THE TELEPATHY THING AND THE VIBE AND KNOW WHERE THINGS WERE AT.USUALLY SUN RA HAD ME NEXT TO HIM.A LOT OF TIMES WE WERE PLAYING AND I WOULD HAVE FUN BECAUSE WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE PLAYING OR IT WAS,LIKE,HORN PIECES I COULD COME OUT AND DANCE WITH THE SUN SYMBOL AND THAT WAS KIND OF FUN TO DANCE AND TO DANCE WITH CHERYL(BANKS)AND WISTERIA(MOONDEW AKA JUDITH HOL- TON).SING THE CHANTS AND WALK AROUND AND THEN PLAY GUITAR.I MEAN, I HAD A BALL...PLAY A LITTLE DRUM OR HANG OVER HERE...REHEARSALS WERE INTERESTING'CAUSE WE WOULD PLAY A PIECE OF MUSIC DIFFERENT WAYS.I REMEMBER STAYING AT THE HOUSE AND HE REALLY WOULDN'T LET ME LISTEN TO ANYTHING BUT FLETCHER HENDERSON WHEN I FIRST MOVED THERE.THAT'S ABOUT ALL HE LET ME LISTEN TO.AND THE THING ABOUT FLETCHER HENDERSON...I WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THE GUYS GREAT GRAND- SON AND WHEN I CAME BACK HOME TO CHICAGO I WAS TELLING THIS GUY ABOUT HIS GRANDFATHER. 'PH:WHAT'S THIS GUYS NAME? DW:ALAN BARROWS.HE'S A GUITAR PLAYER,TOO.WE WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL. AND THEN WHEN I GOT TO HIS HOUSE I REALIZED HIS MOTHER HAD THESE PICTURES AND I SAID,'THAT'S FLETCHER HENDERSON.'AND SUN RA TALKED A GREAT DEAL ABOUT HIM AND HIS MUSIC.BACK THEN WE USED TO PLAY BIG JOHN SPECIAL...WE USED TO DO DIFFERENT KIND OF BLUES.I RE- MEMBER WE DID ONE SONG HERE THAT WAS REALLY FUNNY.WHEN YOU EAT DON'T EAT TOO FAST'CAUSE YOU'LL MAKE MUSIC WITH YOUR ASS PUMP, PUMP.I REMEMBER PLAYING THAT OUT HERE ONE TIME.'CAUSE HE HAD A VIVID SENSE OF HUMOR,TOO.BT IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY 'CAUSE HE WOULD PLAY THE BOOGIE WOOGIE AND STUFF AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE CONNECTED WITH UNMASK THE BATMAN. DW:ONE TIME WE HAD A WOMAN COME TO THE HOUSE AND SHE JUST BUSTED IN AND STARTED COOKING AND CLEANING AND I THINK SUN RA HID AND WE KEPT TELLING HER HE WASN'T THERE AND SHE KEPT COOKING AND CLEANING ANYWAY.AND SHE MADE ALL THIS FOOD AND WE WERE FORBIDDEN TO EAT IT.HE SAID IT SPIRITUALLY WASN'T CORRECT.BECAUSE OF THE WOMAN.AND THAT WAS KIND OF FUNNY'CAUSE HE ACTUALLY HID IN THE HOUSE. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS...KONCEPTS... OAKLAND,CALIFORNIA...SEPTEMBER 28,I986.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:STILL UNINTELLIGIBLE WITH THAT NESS(AQUIN0.0WNER OF THE MABUHAY GARDENS).HE HASN'T COME UP WITH THAT MONEY YET.I TOLD YOU.PETER(HINDS)WAS TELLING ME,'OH,HE'S ALLRIGHT.'HE SAID WED- NESDAY.NOW HE SAID FRIDAY.IF HE DOESN'T GIVE US THIS 'TILL TO- MORROW...HE KNOW WE GOT TO LEAVE TOWN. JOHN HINDS:THAT'S CUTTING IT AWFUL CLOSE. i SR:IT IS.FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS,TOO.HE SAID THEY HAVEN'T REPORTED E FROM THE TICKETS FROM THAT TICKETRON BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE OR NOT. PETER HINDS:THAT'S CONCEIVABLE.I'LL SAY THAT.IT'S A POSSIBILITY. § JH:I DIDN'T KNOW THAT SIDE OF THE BUSINESS.I NEVER...I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKED.I GUESS I STILL DON'T BUT I GUESS IT SHOULD BE OK. SR:SOMEBODY ELSE SAID TICKETRON IS SLOW GETTING THE MONEY. JH:IT'S TOO BAD HE DIDN'T HAVE A LITTLE EXTRA CASH JUST TO PAY AND THEN HE CAN WAIT ON THE CASH. ' SR:RIGHT.IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE APPROPRIATE,YOU KNOW. PH:SUN RA.I WAS THINKING,YOU KNOW YOUR EAST BERLIN CASSETTE IS DOING SO WELL,YOU MIGHT SAY... JH:I WOULD SAY. PH:IT'S REALLY MOVING(LAUGHS). SR:WELL,I SAID PEOPLE LIKE IT.THAT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT LIKE... ‘ JH:OH,THEY LIKE IT.THERE'S NO DOUBT.IT'S A NICE RECORDING.I PUT IT ON HEADPHONES AND JUST ABSORBED IT. SR:THAT'S WHEN YOU CAN REALLY HEAR IT. JH:OH,YEAH.THAT'S THE WAY I EXCLUSIVELY LISTEN. SR:YOU CAN GET THE FEELING OF THE BIG HALL AND THE ACOUSTICS... A JH:IT'S BEAUTIFUL. SR:YOU CAN FEEL THE PRESENCE OF THE PEOPLE... JH:IT'S REALLY TRUE. SR:AND THEIR INTERESTS.YEAH.THAT UNINTELLIGIBLE REALLY WHAT HAPPENED. ‘ JH:YEAH.OH,IT WAS VERY NICE.LIKE I SAID BEFORE I KNOW YOU'LL BE GOING BACK THERE BECAUSE IF THE RESPONSE WAS ANY LOUDER IT WOULD BLOW THE TOP OFF THE PLACE. SR:(LAUGHS)OH,YEAH.IT WAS DELIGHTFUL. JH:YEAH.SO YOU HAVE TO BE GOING BACK VERY SOON.BUT I KNOW THAT PETER WAS TELLING ME ABOUT...YOU KNOW,THE IDEA ABOUT...WELL,YOU SAID YOU HAD MORE MATERIAL FROM... SR:YEAH.I GOT THAT IMAGES,YOU KNOW.I WAS TELLING YOU ABOUT THAT. AND I DON'T KNOW WHY DANNY(THOMPSON)DIDN'T PUT THAT IN THERE. JH:BUT PETER WAS MENTIONING HOW FEW PEOPLE HAVE HEARD ALBUMS LIKE WE TRAVEL THE SPACEWAYS. SR:THAT IS A VERY NICE ALBUM. PH AND JH:INTERSTELLAR LOW WAYS. SR:THAT'S TRUE. PH:JAZZ IN SILHOUETTE. SR:SEE,(ALTON)ABRAHAM GOT THOSE THINGS IN CHICAGO.AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS STORY(IS).HE WON'T ANSWER LETTERS.HE DOESN'T COMMUNICATE WITH US. PH:YOU SHOULD TAKE IT UPON YOURSELF IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT JUST TO REISSUE THOSE ON CASSETTE. SR:I'M THINKING ABOUT IT NOW. \\ . PH:'CAUSE IT WOULD BE VERY EASY FOR ME TO REDUCE THE COVERS AND MAKE THEM FIT INTO A CASSETTE SIZE. ~ «,«:5:_‘ SR:I'M GOING TO WORK ON IT AS SOON AS I GET BACK.I'M GOING TO DO THAT. PH:'CAUSE IT'S ABOUT TIME THOSE CAME BACK OUT AGAIN. SR:YEAH.PEOPLE REALLY...THEY GOT TO TRACE BACK NOW TO(SEE)WHAT I WAS DOING SO THEY CAN CATCH UP.A LOT OF THEM ARE INTERESTED IN THE THINGS BACK THEN. PH:PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.OF COURSE THEY'RE JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND. JH:SO IT WOULD HELP THEM KNOW YOUR HISTORY A LOT BETTER.AND ALSO HELP YOU,YOU KNOW,FINANCIALLY ON THE ROAD. SR:MAYBE I CAN HAVE A SUN RA FAN CLUB. JH:THAT WOULD BE NICE.NOW THAT WAS AN IDEA,I REMEMBER,I HEARD YEARS AGO FROM THE SPENCER WESTON FELLOW AND I THOUGHTi O o S D R A.. W6. D8_A E91 1N E.R CTO UPF REI BSLS .AD DSCN NN ,1 AEOH DC KRSR CAIE IGCT R NE TYAP AAR: PHFO U T TBNO AAAH H .... .. D..M....SD.. '\ . FLYER FOR NATIVE SON CONCERTS . BERKELEY , CA . 1 97 1 . . - -.‘ ' “ .. 1-’ 1 I . ,, _ . . ‘> - A - ~‘ V - I‘ ..n 1 n.‘ - ’ "i. \' ‘_ ' ,'_. .. 9. . H -. . . ... ' . 3-"" --A ‘ «. * ‘ ~.- \ 8-. -- - J 1 ' . -. _*'= '...-5', ‘ I ‘ I ‘ ' ' -nil 1 5 ‘. .'._',r, 2- v V '\' . ... Q ~ _ r . .. _: , -.‘ ‘. .. >_ \ ' ‘ ._ ' 5 '3 - . V "Lo - , '7 ~.,_ _- _, '--:~.. I " “.~a'?". '. - .. .;‘ - l . 3:25 5HArTr1:c»<"Ave Bc—:Rr<X 545 - 556%.? . \_\+ E ..;»£._2...._\\ \\ /y % %’ \\ JUNE iysou Anp SUN RA MABUHAY GARDENS.SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA SEPTEMBER 1986 . PHOTO: PETER HINDS W4.-L:~«‘VN'0v“«n:«~« ,,...k_.M < SR:THAT WAS THAT PHILLY JAZZ(RICK BARRY)AND THEY WERE...THEY JUST WANTED TO USE MY NAME SO THEY COULD GET A MAILING LIST TO PUSH OTHER RECORDS.THAT'S THE REASON IT FAILED.YOU KNOW. - JH:BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS SO WONDERFUL.I WAS SO EXCITED.IT WAS,LIKE,WRITE US IF YOU WANT SUN RA TO COME TO YOUR AREA. RECORDS.WOULD YOU LIKE TO BUY A RECORD EVERY MONTH?IT WAS LIKE, YES! SR:WELL,THEY DIDN'T MEAN IT.THEY WANTED TO GET PEOPLES ADDRESS SO THEY COULD SEND THEM BROCHURES ON OTHER... JH:ARTISTS. SR:AND THEN THEY FAILED,YOU KNOW. JH:THEY DID.IT JUST WENT...I NEVER HEARD A THING AFTER THAT. SR:THEY MOVED OUT OF PHILADELPHIA.THEY GOT ONE RECORD CALLED MYTHOCRACY.THAT'S A PRETTY...I DON'T THINK YOU GOT THAT RECORD. JH:THAT WAS NEVER RELEASED WAS IT? SR:YEAH. JH:IS THAT RIGHT? SR:BY PHILLY JAZZ. JH:IF IT CAME OUT THEY MUST HAVE ISSUED VERY FEW.I KNOW MYTHIC WORLDS. SR:MAYBE THAT'S IT. JH:OK.OF MYTHIC WORLDS.OH,I HAVE THAT.WE HAVE A LOT OF DOUBLES OF YOUR ALBUMS.WE'VE GOT,WHAT?ABOUT ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY RECORDS? SR:YOU DIDN'T BRING THAT... PH:NO.THAT'S ANOTHER THING I... SR:YOU DIDN'T BRING DROP ME OFF IN HARLEM. PH:NO.I'LL HAVE THAT DEFINATELY FOR YOU ON SUNDAY AT THE LATEST. MAYBE TOMORROW. SR:WELL,IF YOU PLAYED IT ON THE PHONE FOR ME.ALL I WANT IS THE FIRST CHORD. 7 JH:OH.JUST THE FIRST CHORD? 10 phaiy jC1ZZ. inc. p.o. box 8167 philodelphio. pennsylvonao 19101 (915) 387-48 35 Solar Solicitations! Now that a bunch of people have sent in for the Ra Legion, we can begin to shape it. M thoughts on what we could offer Legionnaire: are records ( Philly Jazz releases, Saturn-Nine releases, other Sun—Ra albums ), photographs and/or posters of Sun Ra and the Arkestra, some of Sun Ra's drawings ( originals or reproductions ), a membership card, T-shirts, a column written by Sun Ra, perhaps even some sort of music 4 lesson. Philly Jazz would like to receive communications from all of you i as to what you think would be good to include as part of our association Besides just offering material things we can have a special concert for Legion people. You can also help by telling us of people and places that Q would want to have Sun Ra in concert, and by requesting that someone brirg Sun Ra to the area, and by requesting his records on the radio. You can give the Philly Jazz address to all those interested. Sun Ra is also very interested in hearing from you, so send any messages to him at our 1 address but with his name on them. Suggestions on the Ra Legion should b 3 a addressed to me. Right now the only thing we have available are Philly 5 § Jazz T-Shirts, such as the Arkestra wore at the Atlanta Jazz Festival 1} ( they still wear them sometimes ). You may order them ( small, medium g * or large ) from us for 85.00 ( that includes postage ). This is the firs_§ time we are offering them for sale to the Legion. The only people who § have them are a few in Atlanta. You may order more than one if you wish,§ though. Allow 4-6 weeks delivery ( make check payable to Philly Jazz Rec; I have some great pictures we will make available, as soon as we find the best way to do that. Also: Passports to Jupiter: Write away: 3,33‘. Rick Barry’ Coordinator Philly Jazz Records P.O. Box 8167 Phila. Pa. 19101 . a.-.,«~o-a-u.a.o....e-.-um-a-a.:.-=»~«.~r . no SR:I MEAN I COULD JUST COPY IT ON MY TAPE RECORDER.I WANT THE TRUMPET TO HEAR THAT SO HE CAN PLAY IT LIKE THAT. PH:I'LL TRY AND HAVE THAT FOR YOU TOMORROW NIGHT.I'LL MAKE A GOOD EFFORT.'CAUSE TOMORROW I WON'T HAVE TO RUN AROUND WITH THE CAR.I HAD CAR PROBLEMS TODAY. SR:AND IF YOU...SEE,I DIDN'T BRING ALL MY TAPES.I DIDN'T BRING... WHAT IS IT I WANT?...KING PORTER STOMP.I DIDN'T BRING THAT.AND I DON'T THINK I BROUGHT YEAH MAN.AND WHAT ELSE?I THOUGHT SURE I BROUGHT CAN YOU TAKE IT.I DIDN'T BRING SOME TAPES.I GOT SO MANY. THEREFORE I JUST GRAB SOME AND...I BROUGHT ONE FLETCHER THAT YOU SENT ME.BUT YOU BASICALLY WAS PUSHING WRAPPIN'IT UP. JH:OH,YES. SR:I SEE YOU GOT THAT RECORDED SEVERAL TIMES.SO IT DIDN'T HAVE TOO MANY NUMBERS ON THERE.I THINK IT HAD...YOU HAD...HAPPY AS THE DAY IS LONG.BIG JOHN SPECIAL.YOU DIDN'T HAVE CAN YOU TAKE IT?ON THERE.I THINK YOU HAD TIDAL WAVE ON THERE SO...WHAT ELSE?I DON'T THINK YOU HAD QUEER NOTIONS ON THERE.WHAT YOU HAD ON THERE IS VERY CLEAR AND VERY BEAUTIFUL.IT MADE FLETCHER'S ARRANGEMENTS AMAZING.JUST AMAZING.I MEAN,OF COURSE,IT'S SO TOGETHER. JH:VERY INSPIRATIONAL. SR:YOU CAN TELL THAT ALL THE MUSICIANS WERE DEDICATED TO THAT MUSIC.THEY WERE PLAYING.REAL SOUL ON IN THERE.EVERYBODY PLAYING. NO DISSENSION.NO SOMEBODY COMING ALONG FOR THE RIDE.IT WAS... EVERYBODY WAS INTERESTED IN PLAYING THAT MUSIC.SO BEAUTIFUL.WELL, I PROBABLY WON'T HAVE IT TOMORROW,THAT WRAPPIN'IT UP.BECAUSE I GOT IT ALL WRITTEN OUT BUT I HEARD SOME THINGS IN THERE THAT I DIDN'T HAVE WRITTEN.SOME HARMONIES...IT COULD BE JUST OVERTONES,YOU SEE?SO I HAVE TO STUDY AND SEE WHETHER IT'S THE OVERTONES I'M HEARING OR WERE THEY ACTUAL NOTES.'CAUSE I CAN HEAR OVERTONES AND UNDERTONES.I CAN HEAR ALL OF THAT. JH:THAT HAPPENS.I KNOW DUKE USED THAT EFFECT ON MOOD INDIGO.THE MICROPHONE EFFECT5.REMEMBER THAT,PETER?HE GOT CLOSE ON THE MIC AND CREATED A GHOST TONE.THE ORIGINAL(VERSION).HE WAS REALLY A RECORDING MASTER,TOO.HE REALLY KNEW THE STUDIO.HE GOT THE ACOUSTIC BASS RIGHT UP FRONT...THAT WAS HIS IDEA.REALLY.HE'S A REAL MASTER OF THE STUDIO. SR:YEAH.IT'S TOO BAD HE HAD THESE PRIMA DONNAS IN THE BAND BUT HE DID A GOOD JOB.I WOULD HAVE FIRED ALL OF THEM.BUT HE HAD ALL THAT BURDEN ON HIM AND HE STILL KEPT ON BEING A GENTLEMAN. JH:THAT'S TRUE.DOWN SOUTH CAMP MEETING.HAVE YOU EVER DONE?... SR:OH,THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.I THINK YOU'VE GOT THAT ON THERE.AT LEAST PART OF IT.YEAH,I WROTE THAT UP.I TOOK IT UP.IT SOUNDED ALL RIGHT.BUT,IT'S JUST THAT I FELT THAT THERE WAS A FEW NOTES IN THERE,A FEW HARMONIES I DIDN'T HAVE.BUT IT SOUNDED JUST LIKE THE 12 4. RECORD BUT I JUST HAVE FEELINGS UNINTELLIGIBLE IN THERE.IT'S SOMETHING THAT I LEFT OUT.COULD BE A PIANO PART OR BASS PART.IT'$ GOT TO BE EXACT.SO IF IT'S NOT THE SAME BASS IT'S NOT THE SAME ARRANGEMENT.BUT FLETCHER WROTE HIS OWN BASS PARTS,TOO. JH:YOU WERE MENTIONING THAT.THEY WERE ALMOST LIKE MELODIES. (SINGS) SR:THERE THE BASS WAS REALLY MELODIC.IT WASN'T JUST BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM LIKE THEY DO TODAY.IT WAS MELODIC.YOU COULD HUM THE BASS PART.IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.AND THAT MEANT THAT THEY(WERE)REALLY A MUSICIANS MUSICIAN.THE MASTER.THEY HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN AROUND TO THE FULL THING ABOUT FLETCHER,YET.THE BAD PART ABOUT IT:A LOT OF MUSICIANS DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.WALT WAS HERE TODAY.HE SAID HE DIDN'T,THAT'S THE BASS PLAYER.HE WAS TALKING ABOUT JAZZ AND I SAID,'WELL,A TRUE JAZZ MUSICIAN HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT FLETCHER AND BESSIE SMITH AND EVERYBODY AND THEY'D HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT THE EARLY BANDS AND THEY'D HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT JAZZ.IT'S LIKE(A)CLASSICAL MUSICIAN.THEY CAN TELL YOU BACH AND BEETHOVEN AND BARTOK.THEY CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THEM.WHERE THEY WAS BORN... I SAY A TRUE JAZZ MUSICIAN OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING ABOUT JAZZ MUSICIANS. u——¢—¢¢q—-«--—.—na-.———--c—:¢-—-—-nu.-u-u————-.—-¢¢¢-—.——g-—-—a——-.—¢¢—.—————-—_..——-.——— DANNY THOMPSON:THE GUY EDSEL,HE JUST SHOWED UP(AT INTERMISSION). THE OWNER.HE SAID,'I'M SO TIRED,MAN.Y'ALL SOME TROOPERS,MAN,I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL DO IT....' SR:WAS HE HERE LAST NIGHT? DT:YEAH,HE WAS HERE.'MAN.YOU ALL TOO MUCH FOR ME.' SR:WELL,IT'S ABOUT ENERGIES.YOU KNOW.THAT'S THE POINT OF A MUSICIAN.IF HE DOESN'T TUNE IN TO WHAT I'M DOING...THE PACE IS SO TERRIEIC THAT HE WILL BE TIRED.IF HE TUNE IN TO WHAT I'M DOING THEN HE'LL BE ENERGIZED.IT'S QUITE SIMPLE.HE'LL BE ENERGIZED. OTHERWISE HE'LL GET TIREDER AND TIREDER.HE WON'T MAKE IT IN THIS BAND.HE'LL BE SO TIRED HE UNINTELLIGIBLE.AND THEN AGAIN HE'LL GET SO MUCH ENERGY UNTILL HE JUST HAVE TO LAY DOWN.YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE AN AUTOMOBILE.WHEN_YOU PUT GAS IN IT IT'S GOT TO STOP. SO THIS ENERGY BE COMING AND YOU HAVE TO STOP.WELL,IT'S TWO WAYS. IT WILL BE LIKE YOU'RE TIRED.SO IT WORKS TWO WAYS,YOU KNOW.IT'S DEFINATELY ANOTHER KIND OF MUSIC.I HAD ONE OF AMERICAS TOP NOVELISTS COME IN JUST NOW AND TELL ME THAT.ISHMAEL REED. PH:OH.WAS HE BACK HERE TONIGHT? SR:HE JUST COME IN HERE.THAT WAS ISHMAEL REED. JH:OH.THAT WAS THAT GENTLEMAN.THAT GAVE YOU THE BASS PLAYERS NUMBER. SR:NO,NO.ISHMAEL REED IS SORT OF HEAVY SET.LOOK LIKE SOCRATES. I ALWAYS TELL HIM HE LOOKS LIKE SOCRATES.WHEN I FIRST MET HIM, YOU KNOW,HE WAS LIONIZED IN NEW YORK AND EVERYBODY KNOW HE GOT A BEAUTIFUL BRAIN.I MEAN HE'S VERY BRAINY.TOP INTELLECTUAL,THERE. 13 "*7 § § E I ...;...«.<a:.a.z.q:;..a»... , WHEN I FIRST BROUGHT HIM TO THE HOUSE I TOLD HIM SOMETHING LIKE HE ACTUALLY THE MOST IGNORANT PERSON I EVER MET ON THE PLANET. AND EVERYONE SAID,'YOU KNOW,THAT'S ISHMAEL REED.'I SAID,'WELL, HE'S STILL IGNORANT.'HE HAD TO LAUGH.THAT'S WHEN I MET HIM.HE JUST LAUGHED...'I'M IGNORANT?'OF COURSE. JH:THAT'S NICE.HE HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR. SR:I SAY,'YOU GOT HIGH IQ'S AND EVERYTHING.IN MY BOOK YOU AIN'T MAKING IT.YOU GOT TO LEARN SOMETHING.'SO THROUGH THE YEARS HE'S LEARNING AND LEARNING AND LEARNING AND LEARNING.HE FINALLY TOLD ME I WAS RIGHT.AND HE JUST CAME IN HERE AND SAID,'YEAH.YEAH,YOU DEALING WITH INFINITY.EVERYTIME I HEAR YOU YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.YOU ACTUALLY DEALING WITH INFINITY.YOU'RE A REAL MASTERXALL THESE YEARS...WHAT IS IT?60'S OR SOMETHING?THAT'S TWENTY SOME YEARS AGO...HE GOT A BIG OLD BOOK ABOUT SOMETHING.THAT THICK.HE SENT ME ONE.I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT BOOK IS ABOUT.HE GOT SEVERAL BOOKS OUT.I SAID,'BY NOW YOU OUGHT TO BE A MILLIONAIRE.'HE SAID,'I'M LOOKING LIKE A BUM.'I SAID,YEAH. THAT'S SO YOU CAN COME OUT AND WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLES.SO YOU LOOKING LIKE THAT SO YOU CAN GET OUT AMONG THE PEOPLE AND WRITE SOME STORIES.'HE HAD TO LAUGH.(SUN RA LAUGHS)THAT'S THE WAY YOU GET YOUR STUFF.GO OUT AMONG THE PEOPLE LIKE ONE OF THE FELLAS,ONE OF THE GUYS AND YOU LISTEN TO THEM TALK AND YOU CAN WRITE A STORY ABOUT IT.THEIR LIFE.AND THEIR DRINKING AND TALKING. JH:ISN'T THAT LIKE THE MUSIC,TOO.REFLECTING PEOPLE.LIKE FLETCHER HENDERSON? SR:OH YEAH.I SAID TO FLETCHER HE WAS WRITING WHAT HE SAW.WHAT HE HEARD.HE WAS WRITING ABOUT PEOPLE.BACKING UP BLUES SINGERS AND ALL THAT AND HE WAS A COLLEGE MAN.BUT MOST COLLEGE MEN WOUULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT BUT HE DID IT.HE'D FIND SOMEBODY IN A TOWN(WHO WAS)REALLY PLAYING,TAKE THEM AND PUT THEM IN THE BAND.HE HAD A REPUTATION,WHICH THE BAND DIDN'T LIKE,OF GOING INTO A TOWN AND HEAR ANOTHER BAND PLAY AND GIVE THEM ONE OF HIS ARRANGEMENTS FOR THEIR ARRANGEMENT.COLEMAN HAWKINS WAS OFTEN INFURIATED ABOUT THAT.HE'D LOOK UP AN ARRANGEMENT.GONElSOME OTHER BAND GOT IT AND THEY GOT SOME OTHER BANDS ARRANGEMENT.CHANGEING ARRANGEMENTS.SO, NO TELLING WHAT HE GAVE AWAY. 14 — __ ;.,.,¢e.=.— ;.. -.- . ....r,-A. THIS IS THE FIRST INSTALLMENT OF A SEMI REGULAR FEATURE WHICH WILL LOOK AT VARIOUS MUSICIANS THOUGHTS CONCERNING SUN RA AND HIS MUSIC.ESPECIALLY INTERESTING,I THINK,ARE THE COMMENTS OFFERED DURING"BLINDFOLD TESTS"WHERE THE MUSICIANS LISTEN TO A RECORDING AND THEN COMMENT WITHOUT KNOWING WHO IS PLAYING. CONTE CONDOLI...TRUMPET... COMMENTS AFTER LISTENING TO TAKE THE A TRAIN FROM SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS(HAT HUT) . BEFORE(BEING INFORMED WHO WAS PLAYING):(LAUGHS)WELL,I DID RE- COGNIZE THE MELODY.AFTER THE PIANO PLAYER DID HIS THING AND THE BAND WENT INTO 3/4 TIME,IT REMINDED ME THAT BILL HOLMAN DID AN ARRANGEMENT OF THIS TUNE IN 3/4 FOR US ON THE TONIGHT SHOW. IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT I DON'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE. (LAUGHS)I WONDER WHAT DUKE WOULD THINK.THIS IS ABOUT THE MOST DIFFERENT VERSION I EVER EXPECT TO HEAR.TRUMPET HAS SOME CHOPS. BUT DOESN'T KNOW QUITE WHAT TO DO WITH THEM.MAYBE I SHOULD GIVE IT ONE STAR JUST FOR THE ATTEMPT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. THE PIANO—I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO.THE SUSTAINING PEDAL WAS ON THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE THING.THE BAND AS A WHOLE WASN'T TOO BAD,BUT I STILL CAN'T RATE IT HIGHER THAN ONE STAR. AFTER:I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS SUN RA.I HAVEN'T HEARD HIM.I'VE HEARD OF HIM.I REMEMBER AT THE JAZZTIMES CONVENTION THEY HAD THIS DIS- PLAY OF PICTURES OF VARIOUS PEOPLE AND THEY HAD THIS PICTURE OF SUN RA.AND I SAID TO SOMEONE,WHO IS HE?I NEVER HEARD OF HIM.BUT I WAS TOLD,WELL,HE'S BEEN AROUND:APPARENTLY HE'S IN ONE OF YOUR (LEONARD FEATHER)BOOKS. MICHAEL RAY?I DON'T KNOW HIM EITHER. A * IF THAT'S ALL SUN_RA HAS TO SAY-NOW,ORNETTE COLEMAN,WHEN HE CAME OUT,THERE WAS A LOT OF CONTROVERSY,BUT HE TURNED OUT TO DO SOME GOOD THINGS.BUT THIS-I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY SHOULD TAKE A GOOD TUNE LIKE TAKE THE A TRAIN AND REALLY DESTROY IT. JAZZTIMES...FEBRUARY l989...PAGE 23 TOMMY VIG...VIBRAPHONIST... COMENTS AFTER LISTENING TO SUN RA'S STREET NAMED HELL. I LIKED THE FIRST CHORUS THE BEST.FIRST OF ALL,I WAS RELIEVED THAT YOU PLAYED SOMETHING I LIKED.THE TYMPANI WAS USED VERY WELL IN THE FIRST TWO OR THREE CHORUSES.LATER ON IT STARTED TO GO DOWN:THE TYMPANI AND THE DRUMS PLAYED EIGHTS WITH A BASS BACK- GROUND,AND NEITHER THAT BACKGROUND NOR ANY OF THOSE EIGHTS WERE TOO INTERESTING OR GOOD. IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF SOME OF THE THINGS THAT CHARLIE MINGUS DID,BUT THIS IS NOT A BRILLIANT TALENT.SOME OF THE DRUM THINGS THAT WERE PLAYED REMINDED ME OF SHELLY'S PLAYING,BUT I THINK HE WOULD HAVE STAYED IN TIME AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER. I WOULD RATE IT TWO AND ONE HALF STARS. DOWN BEAT MARCH 20 1969...PAGE 34... _ ‘ -._..._., ._., MILES DAVIS...COMPOSER...TRUMPET... COMMENTS AFTER LISTENING TO SUN RA'S BRAINVILLE. THAT'S GOTTA COME FROM EUROPE.WE WOULDN'T PLAY NO SHIT LIKE THAT. IT'S SO SAD.IT SOUNDS FUNNY TO ME.SOUNDS LIKE A 1935 ARRANGEMENT BY RAYMOND SCOTT.THEY MUST BE JOKING-THE FLORIDA A&M BAND SOUNDS BETTER THAN THAT SHIT.THEY'VE GOT MORE SPIRIT THAN THAT.THAT AIN'T NOTHING. WHY PUT ON THAT RECORD?WHAT DOES THAT DO?YOU MEAN THERE'S SOME- BODY AROUND HERE WHO FEELS LIKE THAT? EVEN THE WHITE PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THAT SAD. LEONARD FEATHER:DO YOU THINK THAT'S A WHITE GROUP? DAVIS:THE TRUMPET PLAYER DIDN'T SOUND WHITE...I DON'T KNOW,MAN. YOU KNOW,THERE'S A LITTLE THING THAT TRUMPET PLAYERS PLAY TO MAKE A JAZZ SOUND,THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR OWN SOUND,YOU CAN HEAR AN ADOPTED JAZZ SOUND.WHICH IS A DRAG,ESPECIALLY IN THE MUTE.I MEAN YOU CAN TELL WHEN A GUY'S GOT HIS OWN THING. PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE GOOD FRIENDS TO TELL THEM,"MAN,THAT AIN'T IT,SO DON'T PLAY TRUMPET,"YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? OR "DON'T PLAY DRUMS,'CAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING.I'D RATHER HAVE THAT SAID TO ME THAN TO GO ON PLAYING TRUMPET WHEN IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT,SO HE SHOULD WORK ON IT,OR PLAY ANOTHER INSTRUMENT- A LOWER INSTRUMENT. WHEN AN ARRANGEMENT'S TIGHT LIKE THAT,YOU HAVE TO PLAY EVERY CHORD,BECAUSE THE BACKGROUND PARTS WHEN THEY RECORD,LIKE THEY PLAY THEM SINGLE,INSTEAD'OF MAKING IT SMOOTH-AND IT'S HARD TO PLAY LIKE THAT.YOU HAVE TO PLAY EACH CHORD,THEN PLAY THE OTHER CHORDS OR YOU NEVER CONNECT ANYTHING,AND IN BETWEEN IT'S JUST BLANK. TO ME IT'S JUST LIKE CANNED MUSIC.EVEN CANNED MUSIC SOUNDS GOOD 4 SOMETIMES,BUT NOT SHIT LIKE THIS. DOWN BEAT JUNE 27,1968... ARTIE SHAW...COMPOSER...CLARINET... COMMENTS AFTER HEARING BUT NOT FOR ME...AFTER HOURS...BLACK SAINT MESSY.THE TROMBONE WAS SO BALD...BAH,BAH,BAH...OUT TUNE. NOTHING DID MUCH FOR ME,NOT ONE SOLOIST.IT WAS THE WRONG TEMPO. THEY PLAYED THE TUNE BADLY.I FELT LIKE THEY WERE LOST IN THAT TUNE,THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT.(COMMENTS AFTER LEONARD FEATHER IDENTIFIES SUN RA.)OH, I KNOW SUN RA.WAS THAT HIM? WELL, HE DID SOME REMARKABLE THINGS,BUT THAT SURE AS SHIT WASN'T IT.I HAVE A FRIEND WHO'S DOING A BOOK ON HIM:HE'S A LIBRARIAN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.HE DID A BOOK ON ERIC DOLPHY,WHO I THINK IS A BITCH OF A PLAYER,VERY UNDERRATED.BUT THIS...HE CAN'T BE ANY BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE HE'S GOT WITH HIM.AN AWFUL LOT OF RECORDS THAT GOT MADE SHOULD HAVE,AND DID DISAPPEAR.THE INTRODUCTION WASN'T TOO BAD,BUT FROM THERE ON IN...HE HIMSELF WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INCREDIBLY INTERESTING MUSICIAN.BUT,THEN AGAIN,WE ALL HAVE BAD DAYS.THERE ARE RECORDS THAT I'VE MADE THAT I'D JUST AS SOON DISAPPEAR.BUT WE HAD A LOT OF PRESSURE IN THOSE DAYS.SAMMY CAHN MADE ME PLAY A TUNE OF HIS THAT NOBODY WOULD TOUCH. JAZZ TIMES MAY 94... ZAHIR BATIN...DRUMS... HE HAD SOME BASIC MUSICAL TRAINING IN HIGH SCHOOL,STARTED TO PLAY AROUND BALTIMORE IN l963,AND CAME TO NEW YORK TWO YEARS LATER, GETTING HIS FIRST GIG WITH SUN RA AT SLUGS'.(HE GAVE ME A LOT OF POINTERS ABOUT DIFFERENT FORMS AND TYPES OF MUSIC,AND DYNAMICS.") HE ALSO LEARNED FROM MARSHALL ALLEN ,"AND CLIFFORD JARVIS TAUGHT_ ME A LOT."...DOWN BEAT MARCH l5,72...PAGE 20... MAX ROACH...COMPOSER AND PERCUSSIONIST... THE MUSIC OF SUN RA OR CECIL TAYLOR IS PLACED IN AN OBJECTIVE CATEGORY WHICH MEANS IT IS AVANTE GARDE AND SEPERATES THEM FROM THE MASS.IT'S LIKE SAYING 'THIS IS A 1960 CAR AND THIS IS A 1972 CAR',THE IMPLICATION BEING THAT THE 1972 CAR IS THE BETTER—BUT IT'S STILL A CAR. I THINK THAT CECIL TAYLOR AND SUN RA ARE INNOVATORS,THOUGH,BECAUSE THEY HAVE BROUGHT NEW THINGS TO THE MUSIC." DOWN BEAT MARCH 16 l972...PAGE 17... I V IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. AND THIS SOMETHING ELSE IS GETTING READY TO KNOCK ON EVERY- BODY’S DOOR. IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. MORE /FRIGHTFUL THAN DEATH, REALLY. BEGAUSETMAITD-'S NOT DEATH. IT'S NOT LIFE, EITHER. BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME PEOPLE ARE GOING To FACE SOMETHING THAT'S NoT LIFE AND NoT DEATH. THEY NEVER HAD TO FACE THAT BEFORE. ‘cAus£ THEY cou|.D EQUATE. THEY <ou|.D EQUATE DEATH . . . . THIS Is SOMETHING TFIEY BE ABLE To EQUATE. AND I DON'T KNOVI WHAT'S GOING To HAPPEN. ‘ SUN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-13
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 15 (February, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-02-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: I'M A sPIRIT MASTER. I'VE BEEN TO A zONE wHERE THERE Is NO AIR, NO LIGHT, NO sOUNI>, NO LIEE, NO DEATH, NOTHING . . . THERE's FIVE BILLION PEOPLE ON THIs PLAN ET, ALL OUT OE TUNE. I'VE c.OT TO RAIsE THEIR <ONscIOUsNEss, TELL THEM ABOUT THE WONDERFUL POTENTIAL TO BYPASS DEATH. sUN RA I>E<EMER 1986 E§§g Qgm CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS,PETER HINDS AND CARL LEBLANC. AFTERNOON or ocrossn 31,l988.BEST WESTERN MOTEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA. SUN RA:GO OUT IN THE DESERT(EGYPT)AND JUST STAY THERE.I'M NOT UNINTELLIGIBLE ON IT.I'D GO RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.IT'S BECAUSE (OF)THIS CAMEL DRIVER.HE SAID I CAN COME OUT...I CAN BRING THE BAND AND,YOU KNOW,THEY GOT SOME WONDERFUL TENTS THERE'CAUSE WE WOULD BE OUT IN THE DESERT.HE SAID HIS FAMILY HAD MOVED TO THE CITY.THEY MOVED TO THE CITY.IN(AN)APARTMENT.AND THIS TENT IS OUT THERE.HE SAY ALL I NEED ME SOME WATER.WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY NOTHING.CAMEL IS THERE...
Show moreI'M A sPIRIT MASTER. I'VE BEEN TO A zONE wHERE THERE Is NO AIR, NO LIGHT, NO sOUNI>, NO LIEE, NO DEATH, NOTHING . . . THERE's FIVE BILLION PEOPLE ON THIs PLAN ET, ALL OUT OE TUNE. I'VE c.OT TO RAIsE THEIR <ONscIOUsNEss, TELL THEM ABOUT THE WONDERFUL POTENTIAL TO BYPASS DEATH. sUN RA I>E<EMER 1986 E§§g Qgm CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS,PETER HINDS AND CARL LEBLANC. AFTERNOON or ocrossn 31,l988.BEST WESTERN MOTEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA. SUN RA:GO OUT IN THE DESERT(EGYPT)AND JUST STAY THERE.I'M NOT UNINTELLIGIBLE ON IT.I'D GO RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.IT'S BECAUSE (OF)THIS CAMEL DRIVER.HE SAID I CAN COME OUT...I CAN BRING THE BAND AND,YOU KNOW,THEY GOT SOME WONDERFUL TENTS THERE'CAUSE WE WOULD BE OUT IN THE DESERT.HE SAID HIS FAMILY HAD MOVED TO THE CITY.THEY MOVED TO THE CITY.IN(AN)APARTMENT.AND THIS TENT IS OUT THERE.HE SAY ALL I NEED ME SOME WATER.WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY NOTHING.CAMEL IS THERE.I CAN GO OUT THERE WHEN I WANT TO AND I'D LIKE THAT.I KNOW THE BAND AIN'T...THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY WOULDN'T EVEN WANT TO DO NOTHING LIKE THAT.SO THEY STANDING IN MY WAY THEN.AND THEY WOULDN'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE TO ME.I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE OUT THERE WITH THE BEDOUINS.NOW I CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM.THERE WAY OF LIFE AND...I'D LIKE THAT.SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING.I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING.THEY ALL GOT SOMETHING TO OFFER.DEFINATELY.THEY ALL GOT SOMETHING TO OFFER.BUT YOU HAVE TO...YOU HAVE TO BRING IT OUT.I COULD DO THAT. I'D BE DOING THAT WITH MUSICIANS.THEY COME IN THIS BAND AND ALL AT ONCE THEY BE PLAYING SOMETHING THEY NEVER DREAMED.THEY NEVER DREAMED THEY CAN DO THAT.THEY COMES OUT.AND I DON'T CARE WHO LEAVES.THE BAND BE GETTING BETTER.SO THEN IT COMES DOWN TO,MY SPIRIT IS VERY ACTIVE AND PEOPLE CAN FEEL THAT MUSIC AND FEEL THAT,YOU KNOW,ON THAT BANDSTAND.YEAH.IT'S REAL ALLRIGHT.UNIN- TELLIGIBLE WE GOT A CREATOR JUST SITTING UP THERE WAITING FOR PEOPLE...TO REALISE THE TRUTH.HE AIN'T NEVER HAD,NOT EVEN ONE PERSON TO TELL THE TRUTH.NOT ONE.AND THAT'S THE REASON THE BIBLE SAID THAT HE WOULD...THAT THE CONDITION OF THE WORLD, HE WOULD NOT LISTEN TO ABRAHAM...NOBODY.ALL THE HOLY MEN.HE SAID HE AIN'T LETTING THEM SPEAK(AND)THEY CAN'T DO NOTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION. HE NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO THEM.THAT'S IN THE BIBLE.SO THE HOLY PEOPLE CANNOT SPEAK FOR HUMANITY.THE BOOK SAYS SO.THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT.THEY WEREN'T PURE ENOUGH.SO IT COMES DOWN TO(THE)PURE IN HEART SHALL SEE GOD.AND THE PURE IN HEART CAN SEE GOD(THEY)DON'T DIE.BUT FOR THE OTHER PEOPLE SEEING(GOD),THE BOOK SAYS THEY'LL ' DIE.MAN CANNOT SEE GOD AND LIVE.BUT IT DOES SAY(THE)PURE IN HEART CAN SEE HIM.BUT,NOW,HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN FIND THIS PURE...IN HEART.YOU SEE,IT'S AN EQUATION.THE CREATOR GOT THESE EQUATIONS. THEY(ARE)MEAN EQUATIONS,ALLRIGHT.I'VE SOLVED THEM,THOUGH.I WAS HELPED TO SOLVE THEM.BUT ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE HEADED STRAIGHT TO THE CEMETARY.RICH ONES.POOR ONES.WHITE ONES.BLACK ONES.UNINTEL— LIGIBLE.ALL OF THEM.EVERY TIME I GO TO THE CITY,YOUR NICE CITY AND AFTER A WHILE I'LL PASS A CEMETARY.AND I KNOW THAT CEMETARIES ARE SAYING PEOPLE ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.I CAN GO TO EGYPT. RIGHT BY THE PYRAMID,ABOUT A BLOCK AWAY,YOU CAN SEE A CEMETARY. RIGHT THERE.THEN YOU GO TO GERMANY.YOU WILL PASS A CEMETARY. EVERY WHERE YOU GO THERE ARE CEMETARIES.NOW,A PLACE(EARTH) THAT'S TALKING ABOUT THEY WORSHIP FROM GOD,(THAT)THEY GOT FAITH,THEY NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE NO CEMETARIES.AND THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANY JAILS.AIN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE NO HOSPITAL,NO UNDERTAKERS,NO- THING LIKE THAT.BUT THEN...THEY DO HAVE THEM.AND THEY SHUT THEIR EYES TO IT AND TRY TO MAKE IT LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO HEAVEN AND...NOW,THE BAD PART ABOUT IT;WHEN THEY SO CALLED DIE THEY NOT DEAD.THEY PERFECT(LY)CONSCIOUS OF THINGS.YES THEY ARE.THEY JUST DON'T HAVE NO BODIES.BUT SOMETIMES THEY DO COME IN TO BODIES AND DO SOME OF THE THINGS THEY WERE DOING BEFORE THEY LEFT.THEY COME INTO(A)PERSON AND THEY CALL UP A SESSION AND THEY GO OUT AND KILL SOMEBODY,HAVE SEX OR USE SOME DOPE AND IF THAT PERSON AIN'T GOT THEMSELVES TOGETHER THEY CAN FALL PREY TO THOSE WHO DIE AND COME BACK INTO THEIR BODIES. ' JOHN HINDS:WELL,DOESN'T THAT HAPPEN.SOMETIMES PEOPLE DIE AND THEY SAY,THE DOCTORS SAY OH,THIS PERSON IS DEAD AND THEY'RE,THEY COME BACK AND THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY'RE LAYING THERE SAYING I'M NOT DEAD,I'M NOT DEAD.AND THEY'RE LAYING THERE.PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY'RE DEAD. ' SR.AND,THEN AGAIN,IT COULD BE A SPIRIT THAT'S TOOK OVER,IT CAME BACK AND SAID IT(FOR)THAT PERSON.SO WE OVER IN THIS MYSTERY THING.YEAH.IT COULD NOT BE THE PERSON.THEN AGAIN IT COULD BE. IT COULD BE THAT YOU HAVE IN A PERSONS BODY TWO BEINGS.ONE OF THEM IS IN CAPTIVITY TO THE OTHER.MAYBE YES.THEY PUT ON UNIN- TELLIGIBLE.BUT(iT'S)NOT NECESSARY.NOT NECESSARY.AND ALL THESE THINGS BE HAPPENING LIKE IN A PLAY.NONE OF IT REAL.CREATOR DON'T REGARD NONE OF IT.'CAUSE IT HERE TODAY AND GONE TOMORROW.HE'S ETERNAL SO THEREFORE HE KNOW THIS STUFF AIN'T NOTHING.DON'T MEAN NOTHING TO HIM.WELL.ONE THING,IF A PERSON IS INNOCENT AND PURE IN HEART THEY DO MATTER.AND HE GET RID OF THE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT ONE INNOCENT PURE PERSON.NOW,HE TEACHES SOMETHING ELSE BUT,I'M TELLING YOU,HE'D GET RID OF THE WHOLE WORLD FOR THE SAKE OF ONE INNOCENT PERSON.'CAUSE THEM OTHER PEOPLE;HE CAN'T USE THEM.THEY DON'T...MAKE HIM THINK THAT,WELL,HE WAS A FAILURE IN PRODUCING A MAN.BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT CAPABLE OF ELEVATING THEMSELVES CON- STANTLY EVOLVING THEY'RE NO GOOD.JUST MADE SOMETHING THAT'S A BIG DUMMY.AND MOST MEN ARE.THEY'RE BIG DUMIES.BUT,YOU KNOW...I KNOW THE FOLKS IN THIS BAND,NOW,THEY HAVE TO BE IN THIS BAND AND THEY CAN'T...IF THEY GOT A FAMILY...HE(JOHN ORE)GOT A FAMILY.HE JUST TOLD ME...HE DOING NOTHING ON THAT BANDSTAND.HE DOESN'T UNDER- STAND UNINTELLIGIBLE.AFTER HE GET OFF THE BANDSTAND EVERYTHING IS EMPTY AND IT AIN'T NO GOOD.SO I SAID,YOU'VE EVOLVED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU GOT TO CREATE.AND THEY'RE EVOLVED.THAT JOHN ORE AND THEN I TRY TO GET RID OF HIM...HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE BAND SO I CAN'T.CAN'T GET RID OF HIM...THE REASON I TALK ABOUT HIM SO BAD(IS)THAT HE'D LIKE TO COME AND SEE ME BUT EVERYTIME HE COME AROUND I TALK ABOUT HIM I SAY I DON'T KNOW NOTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT HIM.THE SAY HE DON'T KNOW NOTHING GOOD,EITHER.SO IF HE DON'T KNOW HOW CAN I KNOW?AS HE OPENED MY EYES I CAN SEE THAT AIN'T NO MAN WORTH NOTHING.THIS(IS)SHADOWS AND SHELLS.THEY CAN'T DO NOTHING BUT DIE OR HAVE TROUBLE OR BE SICK.THEY CAN'T DO ANY- THING IF THEY WANTED TO.NOW,WHEN THE CREATOR OPENED MY EYES AND I SAW THAT,IT'S TERRIFYING.AND MEN WALKING AROUND,INTELLIGENT AND EVERYTHING.LOOK LIKE THEY'RE GOING SOMEWHERE OR DOING SOME- THING.YOU GOT A WHOLE WORLD HEADED TOWARD THE CEMETARY AND DON'T KNOW IT.AND I JUMP OUT THERE AND INTERFERE.AND,YOU KNOW,(WHEN) YOU WORSHIP THE CREATOR HE'LL TELL YOU TO DO SOMETHING...IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS SOMETIMES.RIDICULOUS.BUT THAT'S 'CAUSE IT'S SO FAR FROM WHAT THE WORLD IS USED TO.THAT'S THE REASON IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS.BUT IT'S NOT RIDICULOUS.AND I TOLD HIM,'BEHOLD THE RIDICULOUS I AND THE COSMOS ME.'S0,HITLER WROTE HIS BOOK AND I'VE GOT MINE OUT THERE.I TOLD HIM,'THE RIDICULOUS I AND THE COSMOS ME.'(REFERRING TO SUN RA'S POEM,THE RIDICULOUS I)SO I TOLD HIM. WE GOT IT ALL OUT THERE.IT'S WRITTEN DOWN THERE AND I SAID.'RE- SIST ME AND MAKE ME STRONG.'SO WHEN THEY RESIST ME THEY MAKE ME STRONGER.BECAUSE I KNOW I'M DEALING WITH THE CREATOR.AND THEY AIN'T GOING TO WIN.THEY WILL NOT WIN.THEY CAN FORGET IT.THEY GOT FIVE BILLION PEOPLE THAT'S GOING TO LOSE.THIS CREATOR,WHEN HE SENDS SOMEBODY... THAT'S IT... FOR THE WORLD.NOW,HE SENT THAT JESES,THE WORLD BEEN IN TROUBLE EVER SINCE.AND CAN'T EVEN SEE IT. AND HE PUT THEM IN TROUBLE.TALKING ABOUT HE CAME TO BRING A SOUL. HE CAME TO BRING DIVISION.HE CAME TO TURN SON AGAINST FATHER. THINK NOT THAT I CAME OF PEACE.I CAME TO BRING A SWORD.MY PEACE I GIVE YOU NOT AS A WORLD KILLER.HE MADE TWO KINDS OF PEACES.HE MESSED THESE FOLKS UP.AND THEN HE TOOK THE ALPHABETS AND SWITCHED THEM AROUND.FIRST SHALL BE LAST,LAST SHALL BE FIRST.SO HE INVERTED THINGS.SO,YOU SEE,LIKE,THE FELLOWS IN THE BAND,NOW, THEY GOT TO EVOLVE AND LISTEN TO WHAT I GOT TO SAY.THEY GOT TO READ,I MEAN,THEY GOT TO KNOW THINGS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.THEY HAVE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.THIS CREATOR(WILL)COME THROUGH AND GET RID OF THEM.IT'S SOMETHING HE WANT ME TO DO SO ANYBODY IN THE WAY...THEY CAN FORGET IT.CAN'T HAVE THAT.NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT.YES,IT'S DRASTIC.I NEED THINGS...I MEAN.IT WOULD BE QUITE EASY IF I JUST DEALT WITH ONE NATION.THIS CREATOR DON'T CARE ABOUT ONE UNINTEL- LIGIBLE.IT'S WHOLESALE OR NOTHING AT ALL.ALL OR NOTHING AT ALL. I CAN GET OUT THERE AND JUST HELP BLACK PEOPLE(BUT)HE DON'T PLAY THAT.I COULDN'T GET OUT THERE AND...HE DON'T PLAY THAT.EVERYBODY DIES,SO WHAT HE WANT IS FOR EVERYBODY TO BE ALIVE,YOU MIGHT SAY. SO,THEN,YOU CAN'T LET THEM FOLKS STAY IN THE CEMETARY.THEY DID ¥ MORE GOOD THAN THESE(PEOPLE)WALKING AROUND HERE SO HE AIN'T THAT KIND OF CREATOR.THEY COMING OUT(OF)THAT CEMETARY.THEY COMING OUT. BIG JOB.IF ALL THE FOLKS IN THE CEMETARY COME OUT WHILE WOULDN'T BE NO...IT WOULD BE STANDING ROOM ONLY BUT,SEE,HE GOT IT FIXED UP WHERE THINGS CAN HAPPEN.SPACESHIPS BEEN COMING,TAKE HIM AWAY.HE GOT IT ALL FIXED UP.IT'S JUST SOMEONE IN HUMAN FORM GOT TO INITIATE IT.IT'S JUST LIKE...THIS PLANET SITTING OUT HERE ALL ALONE BY ITSELF SO THEY HAVE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTAL THINGS AND THEIR OWN LAWS.HE'S NOT GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THEIR LAWS.NOW,IF THEY WANT TO BE PART OF HIS GOVERNMENT THEY HAVE TO SAY SO. AND YOU HAVE TO PASS LAWS THAT IT'S ALLRIGHT.HE'S NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING.THEY HAVE TO DO IT.THEY SEPERATED THEMSELVES AWAY FROM HIM AND THEY HAVE TO GET BACK OVER INTO THE COUNCIL OF...INTER- GALACTIC COUNCIL.AND THEY HAVE TO THINK THOUGHTS LIKE THAT.THEY CAN'T STAY DOWN HERE BY THEMSELVES ANY MORE.'CAUSE THEY AIN'T THE IuDI<uI.ous I A 1'ou<I-I as THE IuDIcUI.ous I am can can 0 TOUCH oI= THE RIDICULOUS I HEAR! HEAR! HEAR. . . . WILDERNESS HERE SEE AND FEEL AND KNOW THE IuDI<uI.ous I AND THE cosmos ME! SUN RA MAKING IT.THEY AIN'T GOING TO MAKE IT.NO,NO.NO'CAUSE HE'S(GOING TO)THROW ALL THIS STUFF THERE,ALL THESE INVENTIONS AND THINGS. EVERYDAY(THERE)IS SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT'S INCREDIBLE.AND THEY CANNOT STAND STILL.AND THAT'S THE REASON HE'S DOING IT.THEY CAN- NOT STAND STILL ANY LONGER.THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THESE INVENTIONS AND DO SOMETHING WITH THEM OR HE'LL GIVE IT TO ANOTHER NATION. YOU GET THEM JAPANESE SITTING OVER THERE WITH THESE SKYSCRAPERS AND EVERYTHING AND THEY IGNORANT.THEY DON'T KNOW NOTHING.THEY JUST PUPPETS AND PAWNS BUT...HE CAN USE THEM.AND HE GOT RUSSIANS SITTING OVER THERE...HE CAN USE THEM.THEY ALL UP ON HIM,SEE.CARE NOTHING ABOUT NATIONS,THE PERSON.HIS SPIRIT GET OVER THERE(AND) THAT'S IT.THAT'S WHAT MADE AMERICA GREAT.THE SPIRIT OF GOD...WAS OUT THERE.THAT MADE AMERICA GREAT.IT WASN'T THE PEOPLE AND THE DEMOCRACY AND ALL THAT.IT WASN'T THEM.HE DID(IT).AND THEN YOU GOT ALL THIS REMARKABLE PROGRESS.THEY STILL AHEAD OF EVERYBODY.ALL THEY NEED IS ME BUT THEN I'M NOT FOR SALE AND I'M NOT SEEKING TO BE NO LEADER....AND THIS CREATOR(LAUGHS)...YOU KNOW,IT'S LAUGHABLE IN A SENSE,THE THINGS HE BE TELLING ME.TODAY HE TOLD ME,NOW,JUST GO OUT THERE AND TELL THE WHITE HOUSE YOU'RE THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE LIVING GOD.I'M NOT GOING TO DO NOTHING LIKE THAT.WHY SHOULD I DO THAT?SHOULD TELL THEM.PRIME MINISTER.HE SAID THEY GOT ALL THEM MINISTERS AND THINGS BUT ONLY THE PRIME MINIS- TER HAS AUTHORITY.YOU SEE,HE DON'T CARE ABOUT NO MINISTERS.THEY DON'T REPRESENT HIM.THEY GOT TO BE A PRIME MINISTER.NOW,YOU DON'T HAVE NO PRIME MINISTERS IN THE CHURCHES.JUST GOT MINISTERS. (SUN RA,JOHN AND PETER HINDS LAUGH)THEY AIN'T GOT NO AUTHORITY. THE PRIME MINISTER...(CARL LEBLANC ENTERS ROOM RETURNING FROM A SUCCESFUL SEARCH FOR SHEET MUSIC)YEAH,SHOW THEM UP CARL. CARL LEBLANC:NEVER FEAR,CARL IS HERE. PETER HINDS:LOOK AT THAT.LOOK AT THAT.AMAZING. SR:SEE,NOW THEY(JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS)STAY RIGHT HERE AND THEY COULDN'T DO THAT DETECTIVE WORK. CL:THEY HAD TREES IN THREE KEYS.I GOT THE ONE IN C.THEY HAD IT IN 'E.D AND C. SR:NOW,WHAT IS THAT?RIGHT HERE IN YOUR(JH AND PH)OWN HOME TOWN. ' PI-I:THAT IS AMAZING. JH:THAT'S IMPRESSIVE. CL:YOU SHOULD SEE THE STORE,SONNY.IT WAS A OLD LADY WITH ALL KIND OF MUSIC IN BOXES AND IT LOOKED LIKE,I DON'T KNOW.IT DON'T LOOK LIKE SHE GET THEM FROM PUBLISHERS... SR:WHAT'S HER NAME? CL:THE NAME OF IT IS... SR:WHAT'S HER NAME? CL:WELL,I DON'T KNOW HER NAME. SR:WELL,YOU KNOW,IT'S A WOMAN HERE THAT THE ONLY SOMEBODY THAT KNOW WHO IT IS IS RONALD WILSON.I AIN'T SPEAKING TO HIM.BUT THIS WOMAN HERE NAMED SILVER BELL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.YOU ALL SHOULD INVESTIGATE THAT.AND SHE SAID THAT IN NEW YORK CITY DUKE ELLINGTON HAD,HE WAS OVER THERE WITH IRVING MILLS AND ALL THAT, AND HE HAD A LOT OF COMPOSITIONS UP THERE IN THE OFFICE.NOW.HE WENT THERE...YOU KNOW,HE WAS SUPPOSED TO GET A PERCENTAGE AND THINGS,ROYALTIES.AND HE WAS EXAMINING THE BOOKS.ONE DAY HE WENT THERE(AND)HE FOUND OUT THAT IRVING MILLS HAD TWO BOOKS.ONE OVER THERE WITH...AND ANOTHER ONE.AND THE SECRETARY GAVE DUKE ELLING- TON THE RIGHT BOOKS.THEN HE FOUND OUT HOW HE HAD BEEN CHEATED.SO, THEN,HE AND IRVING MILLS CAME TO A PARTING OF THE WAYS.SO,THEN, IRVING MILLS WAS INFURIATED.HE TOOK SOME COMPOSITIONS OF DUKE ELLINGTON THAT HADN'T REALLY BEEN PUBLISHED,BUT IT WAS IN THE OFFICE,AND TOOK THEM ALL AND THREW THEM IN THE EAST RIVER.NOW, THIS WOMAN WHO KNOWS THAT STAYS HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO.AND SHE AND HER HUSBAND WENT AND FISHED THE COMPOSITIONS OUT OF THE RIVER.REALLY,SHE GOT THEM.SHE'S HERE.AND THAT RONALD WILSON KNOWS HER. JH:AND HER NAME IS? SR:SHE GOT A STRANGE NAME.BELL OR SILVER...SOMETHING LIKE THAT. CL:BUCKNER MUSIC.THIS IS THIS LADY.BUCKNER. SR:YOU KNOW,SOMETHING ELSE THAT I WANTED BUT I COULDN'T THINK OF IT.BUT I KNOW THIS TREES...SEE,I HAVEN'T REALLY PUT OUT ARRANGE- MENTS THAT I CAN.I CAN SELL A SONG THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE AMAZED HOW BEAUTIFUL A SONG COULD BE.I'M VERY GOOD AT CHORAL WORK.ANY FORM OF MUSIC.'CAUSE THE CREATOR TAUGHT ME.I TAKE THIS SONG AND MAKE PEOPLE REALLY HERE IT BECAUSE ALL THEY'VE HEARD THE SONG... THEY HAVEN'T HEARD IT.THEY HAVEN'T HEARD IT.WHERE HE SAY;I THINK I SHALL NEVER SEE A POEM LOVELY AS A TREE.THIS IS VERY BEAUTIFUL. I REALLY THOUGHT THAT JOYCE KILMER WAS A WOMAN.BUT THEY SAY IT WAS A MAN.YOU KNOW1,THAT'S WHY I GOT TO INVESTIGATE THAT. CL:A MAN WROTE THE MUSIC.OSCAR... SR:WELL,HE MIGHT HAVE WROTE THE(MUSIC)...BUT JOYCE KILMER... CL:WROTE THE LYRICS.SO IT WAS OK TO GET IT IN C,HUH,SUNNY?I FIG- URED IF YOU WANTED TO TRANSPOSE IT THAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST KEY TO START WITH.THEY HAD IT IN...FOUR SHARPS,TWO SHARPS AND... SR:ONLY GOD CAN MAKE A TREE.POEMS ARE MADE BY FOOLS LIKE ME.ONLY GOD CAN MAKE A TREE.THEY GOT A REST STOP NAMED JOYCE KILMER IN NEW JERSEY.WELL,I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE PERSON WAS BORN.JOYCE KILMER.SO,YEH WELL,THIS IS... JH:I HAVE THAT ON RECORD.AT LEAST FLETCHER HENDERSON DOING IT. SR:THIS IS VERY...A BIG CRISIS FOR ME'CAUSE...IF I GO OUT THERE - NOW...THAT IS UNINTELLIGIBLE ABOUT THE EGYPTIANS WAITING FOR ME TO COME BACK.I HAD NO UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR NO EGYPTIANS.AND MUSLIMS.I'D TAKE ALL THEM OVER.I DON'T NEED THEM.NOT ME PERSON- ALLY.AND THE CREATOR SAYS THAT...HE SAID SOMETHING TO ME ONE TIME IN ITALY.THEY WANTED ME TO COME TO MEDINA.I SAID,'I DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NO MEDINA.'THEY SEY,'WELL,WE CAN'T MAKE NO PROGRESS WITHOUT YOU.'I SAID,'BUT WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ME?'THEY SAID THAT RULERS KNOW ABOUT YOU.THEY SAID THE WORLD IS A KIND OF PLACE WHERE A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN.WE CAN'T MAKE NO PRO- GRESS UNLESS YOU SAY SO.COME WITH US TO MEDINA.I SAID I'M NOT GOING.AND THEY SAID,'REPEAT THIS AFTER ME.'AND THEY WANTED ME TO REPEAT THAT I BELIEVE IN THE ONE GOD.AND I SAID.'WELL,I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THAT.BECAUSE EVERY MAN IS A PROPHET.SO THEN I BE- LIEVE ANY MAN IS A PROPHET IF THE CREATOR WANT HIM TO BE.SO THEN I DON'T HAVE TO SAY THAT.BELIEVING IN ONE MAN BEING A PROPHET. EACH ONE OF THEM BE A(PROPHET)...SO,THEREFORE,I AGREE.AS FAR AS ALLAH IS CONCERNED.ONE GOD.IT'S SPELLED WITH A SMALL G SO...MAY— BE SO.THEY WOULD NEVER SPELL(IT)WITH A CAPITAL G.IT'S ALL WITH A SMALL G.AND WHEN YOU SPELL SOMETHING WITH A SMALL G THEY TALKING ABOUT SATAN.IN THE BIBLE,WHEN THEY SAY THAT SATAN IS THE GOD OF THIS WORLD HE GOT A SMALL G.NOT A CAPITAL G. CL:THEY HAD A MAN ON TV SUNDAY SAYING THAT GOD GAVE LUCIFER THE EARTH FOR HIS DOMAIN BUT HE WASN'T SATISFIED.HE TRIED TO RISE UP AND TAKE HEAVEN,TOO. ‘ SR:WHO WANTS HEAVEN?IT'S A PLACE OF WAR,YOU KNOW.THE BIBLE SAID THERE'S WAR IN HEAVEN.NOW,DON'T NOBODY WANT,ANYBODY INTELLIGENT WOULD NOT WANT A KINGDOM WHERE THERE IS WAR GOING ON.NOW,HEAVEN IS NOT A NICE PLACE.IT SAID THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN.MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS FOUGHT AGAINST THE DRAGON AND HIS ANGELS.SO IF YOU GO UP THERE THEY'RE GOING TO CONSCRIPT YOU.YOU'RE GOING TO EITHER BE FOR THE DRAGON OR YOU'RE GOING TO BE FOR MICHAEL.MICHAEL,ANYWAY, ALL OVER EUROPE THEY GOT MICHAEL WITH HIS FOOT ON THE HEAD OF A BLACK MAN.MOST CERTAIN(LY)I GOT THAT PICTURE.ALL OVER EUROPE THEY GOT THE ANGEL MICHAEL,WHO IS WHITE,WITH HIS WINGS AND HIS SWORD, STANDING OVER A BLACK MAN THAT'S LAYING DOWN ON A PIT OF FIRE WITH THE FIRE ON HIS BACK AND MICHAEL'S FOOT IS ON HIS HEAD. AND THE BLACK MAN GOT DRAGON WINGS.HE GOT WINGS,TOO.THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT IN EUROPE.THEY DEPICTING THE BLACK MAN AS THE DEVIL WHICH I AIN'T GOING TO SAY NOTHING.HE PROBABLY IS.HE PROBABLY IS. I DON'T KNOW NOTHING,YOU KNOW.I JUST KNOW WHAT I SEE AND I KNOW THEY GOT THIS WHITE ANGEL WITH ALL THEM WINGS,GREAT BIG OLD WINGS AND THIS SWORD AND THE SCALE OF JUSTICE IN HIS HAND.HE GOT THAT. HE GOT THE SCALE OF JUSTICE IN HIS HAND LIKE THAT AND HE GOT THE SWORD IN HIS HAND AND EVIDENTLY HE SAYING THAT THE BLACK MAN DIDN'T COME UP TO THE STANDARD AND THE ANGELS GOT THIS SWORD ON HIS HEAD UNTILL HE DOES.THEY GOT THAT THERE.AND I'M LOOKING AT BLACK PEOPLE SAYING THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS WHITE UNINTEL- LIGIBLE BUT I KNOW WHAT'S WRONG.BUT THE BIBLE SAID THEY CAN'T BE HELPED UNTILL THEY CONDEMNED.AIN'T NO BLACK COME UP AND TOLD A BLACK MAN HOW WRONG HE IS.THAT HAS TO HAPPEN FIRST.RESURECTION TO SHAME IS TWO RESURECTION.ONE OF THEM IS TO SHAME.AND A BLACK MAN HAVE TO BE...SAY,YOU KNOW.YOU DOING WRONG.YOU DOING WRONG. AND I ALWAYS BE TELLING IT.I HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT.AND THAT'S THE REASON ELO(OMOE)SAID HE'D BE SCARED TO COME TO SEE ME BE- CAUSE I TALK ABOUT HIM SO BAD.BUT I'M TRYING TO WAKE HIM.I SAID, 'YOU KNOW WHAT?IF I GOT IN TROUBLE AND I WANTED TO PUT YOU UP FOR COLLATERAL WOULDN'T NOBODY GIVE ME NO MONEY,ELO.'I SAID,'YOU TOO, BUSTER(SMITH).'SO BUSTER WALKED OUT.THEY CAN'T STAND IT.SO I CAN'T DO NOTHING...THE BIBLE SAYS I BEGIN TO WORK EVIL IN MY HOUSEHOLD.SO IF I'M GOING TO GO OUT THERE AND TALK ABOUT THE WORLD FIRST I HAVE TO TALK ABOUT EVERYBODY IN THIS BAND.AND I BE DOING THAT.I'M FOLLOWING THE BOOK.IT SAYS I BEGIN TO WORK EVIL AT MY HOUSEHOLD.BUT THEN YOU GOT JESUS SAYING I WORK IN MY FATHER WORK(?).THEN YOU GOT HIM SAYING THE WORKS OF THE WORLD ARE EVIL. SO HE WASN'T DOING NOTHING GOOD'CAUSE THE BOOK SAID(LAUGHS)THE WORKS OF THE WORLD ARE EVIL.HE DIDN'T SAY THE WORKS OF THE WORLD ARE GOOD.IT SAID EVIL.NOW,WORKS...YOU SEE,THE BOOK IS VERY IN- VOLVED AND THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT.LIKE THIS MAN IN RUSSIA...THE HEAD OF RUSSIA(GORBACHEV)SAID THAT ANY OF THEM JEWS CAN LEAVE ANY TIME THEY WANT TO.BUT THE POINT OF IT:DON'T NOBODY WANT THEM.THAT FRANCE DON'T WANT THEM.GERMANY...NOBODY WANT THEM JEWS AND THERE AIN'T ENOUGH ROOM IN ISRAEL FOR THEM SO,REALLY,THEY FREE TO LEAVE ANYTIME THEY WANT.BUT,HE SAID HE TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA AND THEY OVER THERE IN RUSSIA AND RUSSIA WANTS THEM AND HE SAID HE AIN'T FORBIDDING THEM TO BE THERE BUT IF RUSSIA WANTED THEM TO SEND THEM TO FRANCE,FRANCE DON'T WANT THEM.GERMANY DON'T WANT THEM. IS NOT ONE COUNTRY IN ALL OF EUROPE THAT WILL WANT JEWS TO COME AND STAY IN THEIR COUNTRY.ON SIXTY MINUTES HE SAID THAT.SO THERE YOU ARE.SO WHAT'S WRONG?THS TRUTH GOT TO COME OUT.THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG.LOT OF BLACK FOLKS SAYING THEY THE JEWS BUT...WHY?IT AIN'T NO GOOD TO BE A JEW SINCE THEY TEACHING THAT JEWS ARE THE CAUSE OF(AN)INNOCENT MAN DYING ON THE CROSS.THAT AIN'T NO GOOD.SO WHY THEY GOING TO SAY THAT?IF THEY(ARE)THE ORIGINAL JEWS THEN THEY THE ONES WHO DID IT.THEY TALKING THEMSELVES INTO TROUBLE.YEAH, THEY DONE IT.AND IN THE WORLD,SEE,ALL THE ONES WHO PUT CHRIST ON THE CROSS IS BLACK.I KNOW THAT'S TRUE 'CAUSE IN CHICAGO I WAS TALKING...THEY WAS WONDERFUL IN CHICAGO'CAUSE THEY HAD A PARK CALLED WASHINGTON PARK AND I WOULD GO OUT THERE(IN THE FIFTIES) AND THE COMMUNISTS HAD A FORUM AND THE BLACK MUSLIMS HAD A FORUM AND THE PRESBYTERIANS HAD A FORUM,THE DEMOCRATS HAD A FORUM.THEY HAD ABOUT TEM FORUMS OUT THERE.EVERYDAY I'D GO OUT THERE IN THAT PARK.ALL OF THEM BLACK...I'D GO OUT WITH MY BOOK SO I STUDIED. TEN OR TWELVE BOOKS.I'D SIT ON THE BENCH IN THE SUN AND UNINTEL- ' LIGIBLE.IT'S ALL BLACK PEOPLE.THEY COME AND THEY STAND AROUND ME BY THE BENCH.AIN'T SAYING NOTHING AND FINALLY THE ONE(THAT)WAS UP THERE TELLING THE BLACK UNINTELLIGIBLE,WELL,HE CAME DOWN TO THE BENCH AND SAID,'YOU KNOW,EVERYTIME YOU COME OUT HERE PEOPLE BE LEAVING THE FORUM COMING DOWN WHERE YOU ARE.'I SAID,'I DIDN'T SEND FOR THEM.I'M BUSY STUDYING THINGS.YOU(ARE)THE ONE WHO WANT THEM.I DON'T WANT THEM.'HE SAY.'WHY DON'T YOU COME UP TO THE FORUM AND TALK TO THEM?'I SAID,'YOU LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO LEAD.I AIN'T LOOKING FOR...I'M STUDYING.I'M TRYING TO SEE WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PLANET.MAYBE I CAN CORRECT IT.I WANT TO BE SURE I'M RIGHT...CORRECT.'SO THEN ONE DAY HE CAME DOWN THERE AGAIN;ONCE HE EVEN TOOK THE FOLKS AWAY FROM THE FORUM AGAIN.(HE SAID TO SUN RA)'COME UP AND TALK TO THEM.'THIS TIME I DID LEAVE THE BENCH AND I WENT UP AND STOOD NEAR THE FORUM.EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE FORUM JUMPED OVER THERE WHERE I WAS SO HE COME AND TOOK THE REST OF THE FOLKS AWAY FROM THE FORUM.HE SAY,'WELL,GO ON AND TALK TO THEM.'I DID TALK TO THEM.I SAY,'YOU KNOW,YOU(ARE)HERE IN AMERICA AND YOU DO A LOT OF GOOD THINGS BUT YOU DON'T GET NO RECOGNITION.YOU'RE VERY INVENTIVE,INTELLIGENT,YOU'VE BEEN LOYAL TO AMERICA.FOUGHT AND DIED FOR...YOU STILL DON'T HAVE NO RECOGNITION.NOW,WHY?I SAID YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE SOMEBODY CAME ALONG DOING SOME GOOD WORKS THAT YOU WOULDN'T RECOGNIZE IT.IT WAS YOU. AND THERE YOU OVER IN AMERICA DOING ALL THESE NICE THINGS.YOU DON'T GET NO RECOGNITION.NOW,THE ONE WHO CAME HERE WASN'T RECOG- NIZED WHO HEALED THE SICK AND RAISED THE DEAD WAS THE ONE THEY CALLED JESUS.THAT WAS YOU THAT WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE HIM.AND YOU ARE OVER HERE AND YOU NOT GETTING NO RECOGNITION FOR YOUR GOOD WORKS'CAUSE HE DIDN'T GET NOTHING FOR HIS.AND NOBODY WILL HELP YOU.NATIONS STANDING BACK AND LOOKING.THEY DOING THE SAME THING (THAT)HAPPENED TO HIM.I SAY YOU THE ONES THAT CRUCIFIED HIM.BUT THEN ALL THE ONES,IT WAS ABOUT FIVE HUNDRED BLACK PEOPLE STAND- ING AROUND,THEY JUMPED UP AND DOWN AND SHOOK THE EARTH SHOUTING NO,NO,NO,NO.I SAID YES.IT WAS YOU,ALLRIGHT.AND MILES DAVIS' BRO- THER WAS THERE,VERNON,AND THE BLACK MUSLIMS WERE SO ASTOUNDED. BUT THEY HAD BEEN LISTENING TO WHAT I HAD TO SAY AND THEY SAID, 'WELL,BROTHER,WE AIN'T NEVER SEEN BLACK FOLKS LIKE THIS.YOU MIGHT BE IN DANGER.WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.'BUT THEY GOT AROUND IN A CIRCLE AND VERNON,MILES DAVIS'BROTHER,AND THEY ENCIRCLED ME TO PROTECT ME FROM BLACK FOLKS THEY THOUGHT...AND THEY LED ME OUT THE PARK.THAT HAPPENED IN CHICAGO.SO I MUST HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH.WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?I SAID YOU THROW A STONE AND YOU HIT SOMEBODY THEY HOLLERS ON YOU.I TOLD THE TRUTH.AND THAT SPIRITUAL SOUL KNOW I TOLD THE TRUTH.I HURT THEM.AND IT UNINTELLIGIBLE LIKE THAT.THAT CHURCH OVER THERE TEACHES ABOUT THE CRUCIFICTION OF CHRIST SAVED THE WORLD.GOT TO GO.THE BLACK CHURCH GOT TO CHANGE THAT.GET RID OF THAT IDEA THAT THE CREATOR IS GOING TO LET AN INNOCEN-r MAN DIE. I CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA...LEAVING THE NEW GEORGE'S CLUB IN SAN RAFAEL,CALIFORNIA.ONE THIRTY AM.SEPTEMBER 30,1986 . . . . . . ........ PETER HINDS:I THINK WE'RE ALL SET TO GO,SUN RA. SUN RA:OK.READY,MARTIN(BANKS)? MARTIN BANKS:WHERE WE GOING?HOME? SR:I'M GOING TO GET ME A CAT'O NINE TAILS FOR YOU.(PETER LAUGHS) SPARE THE ROD,SPOIL THE CHILD.(PETER AND JOHN LAUGH) JAMES JACSON:THEY DON'T MAKE THEM THAT BIG. MB:I FOUND A UNINTELLIGIBLE OVER THERE. SR:YOU NEED SOMEBODY ON YOU.YOU BEEN OUT HERE TOO LONG BEING FREE.IT'S OVER.YOU AND THE REST OF THE BLACK MEN.IT'S OVER.TAKE IT FROM ME. SUN RA:EVERYBODY HAVE TO STAND IN PLACE.IF DEATH COMES AGAINST YOU BE IN PLACE.WHY SHOULDN'T YOU BE IN PLACE WHEN I WANT YOU IN PLACE?I'M NOT DEATH.I DEMAND JUST AS MUCH RESPECT AS DEATH.DEATH COME TO GET A MAN HE'S RIGHT THERE OBEDIENT.ALWAYS READY-.. .._....._...-——~-» MARTIN BANKS:I'M GOING BACK HOME.(REPEATS THIS SEVERAL TIMES.) WHAT HAPPENED TO ME IS MY FALSE TOOTH KEPT FALLING OUT.I DIDN'T HAVE THAT GLUE.....THEY DIDN'T BRING MY GLUE FOR MY TEETH. SR:NO.THAT AIN'T NO EXCUSE.WELL,YOU HAD THEM.YOU HAD ALL THE TRUMPET PLAYING AND YOU PLAYED SOLO INSTEAD OF PLAYING YOUR HORN. I SAW THAT. MB:THAT'S THE REASON I DON'T WANT TO...THAT'S THE REASON I'M GOING TO GO ON BACK.I'M GOING TO GO ON BACK TO LA'CAUSE I DON'T WANT TO LIVE NOTHING LIKE THAT. DANNY THOMPSON:(STERNLY)WHERE YOU GOING,MARTIN?YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.YOU BETTER NOT GO NOWHERE. MB:WE GOING TO GO TO SAN FRANCISCO NOW,DON'T WE? DT:WE GOING TO SAN FRANCISCO.THAT'S WHERE YOU GOING. SR:HE JUST A BIG COWARD,THAT'S ALL.I NEVER THOUGHT I'D MEET SOME BLACK MEN WHO WAS COWARDS.I DIDN'T THINK THE CREATOR MADE SOME- THING LIKE THAT.I HAVE UNINTELLIGIBLE THE BLACK MAN.GETTING A LITTLE RESPECT FROM THEM.GET ME SOME WHITE ONES.GET ME SOME MEAN WHITE ONES... MB:NO,NO...YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT... .._;~_i.~ < ’:'»::Me-mt..\:».\w-r.:~(«~,.-.~.-a- I E 5 SR:FOR BLACK ONES.I WILL.I'LL GET ME SOME WHITE MUSICIANS IF . THESE BLACK ONES AIN'T...IF THEY CAN'T BE MEN LIKE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE...GOING TO BE BIG OLD BABIES.I DON'T NEED THEM.(STOPS WITH PETER,JOHN AND PAT PATRICK TO LOOK IN THE WINDOW OF A PAWN SHOP) A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS IN THERE. PAT PATRICK:CHECK THAT ONE.SEE THAT?SEE THAT BASS OVER THERE? THE SHRINE CLUB.(PAT AND SUN RA LAUGH) SR:THEY GOT A LOT OF STRANGE STUFF IN THERE.SHRINERS,HUH?PEOPLE BE INNOVATING.I LIKE PEOPLE THAT INNOVATE.BLACK FOLKS DON'T(HAVE) DO THE SAME THING ALL THE TIME.THE NEXT THING.I'M GOING TO GET ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER.IF YOU GO TO LOS ANGELES I'M GETTING ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER AND FROM THEN ON WHEN I REPLACE ONE I'LL GET ME A WHITE ONE.I'M NOT GOING TO BE BOTHERED... ME:YOU KNOW I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE.YOU KNOW I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE. SUN RA:THE NEXT THING.I'M GOING TO GET ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER. IF YOU(MARTIN BANKS)GO TO LOS ANGELES I'M GETTING ME A WHITE TRUMPET PLAYER AND FROM THEN ON WHEN I REPLACE ONE I'LL GET ME A WHITE ONE.I'M NOT GOING TO BE BOTHERED. MARTIN BANKS:YOU KNOW I AIN'T GOING NOWHERE. SR:I'M NOT GOING TO BE BOTHERED WITH NOBODY OBSTRUCTING ME NO MORE.THIS IS IT.I GOT A JOB TO DO HERE AND I'M JUST ONE PERSON AND THE CREATOR GOT ME HERE AND ALL THIS BULLSHIT AND I'M GETTING READY TO MOVE FORWARD.I DON'T CARE WHO IT HURTS.I'M TIRED.IT'S RIDICULOUS. ‘ JH:WHAT'S GOING ON TOMORROW?WHAT ARE YOU UP TO? SR:TOMORROW...TOMORROW I'M(GOING TO)LOOK FOR ME SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH SOME WILD HAIRDOS.I WANT TO HAVE ALL KIND OF HAIRDOS.'CAUSE I'M READY TO MOVE FORWARD.SO THEN THEY GOT TO BE LOOKING LIKE NOTHING ON THE PLANET.I'LL HAVE THEM AND I'LL TEACH THEM SOME THINGS I WANT THEM TO DO.I GOT TO HAVE PARTICULAR WHITE ONES'CAUSE I CANNOT MAKE IT WITH THE BLACK ONES NO MORE ALL BLACK.I GOT TO HAVE ME SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH THEM HAIRDOS.IT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE FROM OUTER SPACE.AND I'LL TEACH THEM HOW TO SING AND I CAN HAVE THEM TO BE RIGHT THERE AND I CAN DO MY DANCES WITH THEM AND SING WITH THEM AND SHAKE THE WORLD.I'M GOING TO SHAKE THE WORLD.BUT I WANT THEM TO HAVE...I WANT THEM TO BE... LOOK LIKE THEY FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.WITH THEM HAIRDOS AND THEM FACIAL AND THEM COSTUMES.I WANT THAT.I DON'T HAVE TIME TO TEACH THE BLACK ONES NO MORE.I'VE BEEN TEACHING MY WHOLE LIFETIME AND THEY DISAPPOINTING ME'CAUSE I'M A SPIRIT,YOU KNOW.I'M NOT NO MAN. I CAN'T BE SAYING...TELL A MAN THAT(TO)DO THIS THAT AND THE OTHER.I RECKON MAN IS JUST...TOO SLOW.I RECKON.I DON'T KNOW.AIN'T MY NATURE TO BE NO MAN.BUT IF THEY CLINGING ON TO THEIR EMOTIONS AND DOING THINGS TO SLOW UP I RECKON A TURTLE IS JUST A TURTLE. I CAN'T EXPECT A TURTLE TO JUMP UP AND RUN WITH ME.'CAUSE TURTLES CAN'T DO THAT.NOW,I RECKON YOU GOT SOME TURTLE MEN AND THEY JUST 11 GO ON AND BE TURTLES'CAUSE I'M NOT NO TURTLE.I MOVE FAST.I MOVE FAST.AND I'M GETTING READY...I'M GETTING READY TO MOVE FAST'CAUSE I'M LIKE THAT DRUMMER.I'M STILL PLAYING.AND I LIKE TO DO DIFFE- RENT THINGS.I LIKE TO DIFFERENT THINGS.WONDERFUL THINGS...AND I DON'T WANT TO JUST LIFT PEOPLES SPIRITS.I WANT TO LIFT MINE UP TOO.SO IF I'M DOING THEM DIFFERENT THINGS I'M HAPPY.BUT IF FOLKS SLOWING UP THEN IT DRAGS ME DOWN.I DON'T NEED NO GRAVITY TO BE DRAGGING ME DOWN.YOU'VE GOT SOME GRAVITY FOLKS.I'M TALKING ABOUT...YOU'VE GOT SOME GRAVITY MEN AND THEY'LL DRAG YOU ON DOWN THERE.I DON'T NEED THEM GRAVITY MEN.I NEED THESE SPIRITUAL.HAPPY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT REALLY ATTACHED TO THIS PLANE.AND YOU'VE GOT SOME.YOU'VE GOT SOME.NOW,HE'S ONE OF THEM(MARTIN BANKS)BUT HE OVER THERE...HE CAN PLAY THAT TRUMPET.BUT,HE GOT A LOT OF EARTH THINGS HANGING ON HIM. JH:THEY HAVE A WAY OF CLINGING,YOU KNOW.THOSE KIND OF THINGS.JUST KIND OF ARE ALWAYS WAITING.YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL. SR:WELL,I CAN'T WAIT ON HIM NO MORE.THE CREATOR IS ALWAYS SAYING, ‘MOVING FORWARD.'NOW,HE TOLD ME GET ME SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH THEM HAIRDOS.THE WILDEST LOOKING I CAN FIND. JH:THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.THAT'S REALLY WILD. SR:AND THEN I DO MY SPACE STUFF.AND I CAN TEACH THEM SOME SPACE THINGS THAT THE WORLD NEVER HEARD BEFORE.THEY'LL LISTEN TO ME. 12 CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . . . . . . . . . .. NOVEMBER l,l988...ONE AM...SLIM'S...SAN FRANCISCO,CALIFORNIA..... SUN RA:ACTUALLY,WE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING AT SWEET BASIL RIGHT NOW.I CAME HERE INSTEAD.JACK(BOOKING AGENT JACK RICH)INSISTED I SHOULD COME HERE. PETER HINDS:WELL,YOU WERE HERE IN...'74 I THINK. SUN RA:ON HALLOWEEN? PETER HINDS:ON HALLOWEEN. JOHN HINDS:NO,THAT WAS NEW YEARS ACTUALLY. PETER HINDS:NO.BUT WASN'T HE HERE(IN)'74...? JOHN HINDS:OH,THAT'S RIGHT. PETER HINDS:THAT'S THE YEAR YOU LIVED IN SAN FRANCISCO FOR THREE MONTHS ON BAKER STREET.(ACTUALLY THREE AND A HALF MONTHS.ARRIVED IN MID SEPTEMBER) SR:UH HUH.I PROBABLY WAS.... PH:YEAH.YOU WERE AT THE KEYSTONE(KORNER). SR:OH,THAT'S HALLOWEEN. PH:YEAH,THAT WAS HALLOWEEN.'74.YOU WERE HERE OCTOBER,NOVEMBER (AND)DECEMBER AND LEFT ON NEW YEARS EVE(ACTUALLY LEFT JANUARY FIRST 1975).YOU PLAYED THE AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORICAL SOCIETY. THAT WAS SOMETHING. SR:WELL,I WAS SEEING WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE PLANET.SO I KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW. PH:THAT WAS THE NIGHT DANNY DAVIS LEFT THE BAND AND WENT BACK T0000 I SR:WELL,WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.THE CREATOR KEPT ME HIDDEN FROM HERE A LONG TIME.IF I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING I'D BE OUT ON THE ' I DESERT SOMEWHERE HIDING.I'D GET ME A NICE...DIG DOWN IN THERE AND HAVE ME A SAFE PLACE DOWN UP UNDER THE SAND'CAUSE THERE ARE SOME HOUSES BEING BUILT OUT THERE NOW.YOU CAN REALLY HIDE OUT THERE. PH:WHERE'S THAT NOW? SR:IN EGYPT.THE DESERT.THEY PUT SOME HOUSES OUT THERE.IT JUST A MATTER...THEY NEED WATER.BUT,I LIKE TO GO THERE...WELL,THE PEOPLE IN THE BAND WOULDN'T REALLY VENTURE(THERE).BUT SOMETIMES YOU SEE THEM BEDOUINS AND THEY'D BE OUT THERE IN A CAVE RIGHT UP ABOVE THE SPHINX.AND I STARTED TO GO UP THERE BUT I NEVER DID. 13.‘ \s\ 'CAUSE BETWEEN THEM...BETWEEN THE SPHINX AND THEM WAS THE CEME- TARY.AND YOU HAD TO WALK THROUGH THE CEMETARY TO GO UP THERE SO THAT DETERRED ME.DONT LIKE NO CEMETARIES.ANCIENT CEMETARY.AND THEY WAS UP THERE ON THE HILL IN BIG CAVES OVERHANGING...DRESSED IN BLACK.BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE LIKED ME SO WELL THEY'D GRAB ME AND TAKE ME WITH THEM SO I...I SAID I'M NOT GOING UP THERE. JH:BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY._ SR:BUT THEY GOT SOME ATTRIBUTES THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T HAVE. WELL,THEY SAY SOME OF THE SOLDIERS...YOU KNOW,WHEN THE WAR WAS GOING ON BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT(1967),THEY PLANTED MINES OUT THERE IN THE DESERT IN BETWEEN.AND THEY SAID THE BEDOUINS OFTEN COME INTO THE ARMY CAMP WITH THESE MINES.THEY(THE ARMY)DON'T GO OUT.THEY COME AND BRING THEM IN THERE AND LEAVE THEM AND THEY PAYING THEM FOR IT.AND THEY DON'T KNOW HOW THEY DO IT.HOW THEY ABLE TO SMELL THESE...IT'S LIKE THEY CAN SMELL A MINE.AND THEY COME IN AND BRING THEM IN THERE...LIVE ONES ON THEIR CAMELS AND DEPOSIT(THEM)AND THEY PAY THEM.AND THEY CAN'T...THEY CAN'T UNDER- STAND HOW THEY DO IT AND HOW THEY FIND THOSE MINDS.SO THEN THEY DO HAVE THESE ATTRIBUTES THAT....THEY MOVE OUT SO THEY CAN HAVE THEIR TENTS AND EVERYTHING AND THE WEATHER'S NICE.THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT NO RAIN SO THEY JUST PICKUP...AND GO.UNINTELLIGI- BLE SOME OTHER KIND OF MEN.WHEN I GO TO EGYPT NEXT TIME I CAN GET TO KNOW SOME OF THEM.AND THEY AIN'T GOING TO BOTHER ME.BUT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER FELLOWS IN THE BAND.I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEM.THEY MIGHT BE SCARED OR SOMETHING.THEY MIGHT BE AND THEY (THE BEDOUINS)CAN FEEL THAT.AND THEY AIN'T SCARED OF NOTHING. THEY CAN MEET A MAN(WHO IS)AFRAID(AND)THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. HE MIGHT ATTACK SO WHAT IS THIS?(LAUGHS)LOOKED AT,LIKE,ME AND SCARED OF ME UNINTELLIGIBLE IN TROUBLE.THAT GOES FOR(BLACK) AFRICA,TOO.IT'S STRANGE.IT'S SOME PEOPLE,MAYBE FROM JAMAICA,THEY WAS IN THE FRONT,THEY SEEMED LIKE THEY WAS FROM JAMAICA OR SOME- WHERE.THEY WAS DANCING(REFERRING TO PEOPLE IN THE FRONT ROW AT THAT EVENING'S CONCERT).LOOKED LIKE THEY WAS FROM SOMEWHERE ' ELSE. PH:ARE YOU GOING TO START REHEARSING DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND? SR:WELL,I GOT TO LOOK IT OVER NOW AND SEE WHETHER THEY CHANGED SOME CHORDS.I ALREADY GOT IT WRITTEN OUT.I JUST WANTED THE WORDS. SO NOW SINCE I GOT THAT MUSIC THAT MEANS I'M GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING. PH:(CHUCKLES) SR:'CAUSE WHEN I LOOKED AT IT I SAID I THINK I'LL WRITE...WRITE IT OR CHANGE KEYS OR...IT'S IN THE SAME KEY AS ON THE RECORD. (THE SOUNDTRACK TO THE FILM COOL HAND LUKE.DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND WRITTEN BY LALO SCHIFRIN AND GAIL GARNETT).I MIGHT WANT ANOTHER KEY...KEY'S UNINTELLIGIBLE. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF MAN, OF OUR BEING HERE? OUR PURPOSE IS TO DIE, NOTHING ELSE. ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN ACCEPT LIFE. I'M DEALING WITH REALITY DOWN TO THE BOTTOM LINE. LOOK! THE BAD THINGS ALWAYS SPREAD, LIKE AIDS. DISEASE SPREADS, SO SUPPOSE WE HAD ONE TINY SEED OF HAPPINESS ON THIS PLANET. IF IT WAS POWERFUL ENOUGH IT WOULD SPREAD. THE GOOD THINGS HAVE NEVER HAD A CHANCE. HAPPINESS CAN BE CONTAGIOUS. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO, PUT HAPPINESS ON THIS PLANET THROUGH MUSIC. SUN RA DECEMBER 1986 MusIcIANs THINK I'M Too “FAR OUT” I=oR THE AuI>IEN<E. THAT'S THE WORD oN ME. BUT PEOPLE ASK, “HAvE THE MusI<IANs CAUGHT UP wITH suN RA YET?” I KEEP ADVANCING. EVERYBODYSHOULD. MAN ONLY usEs I=IvE PER<ENT or HIs BRAIN. THAT's WHY I SAY MAN KIND HAs TO <ooPERATE. IF vou GET TWENTY MEN TOGETHER YOU GET 100 PE R<ENT BRAIN PowER. wE <AN'T TRAvEI. ALONEANYMORE. SUN RA DECEMER 1986 THINGS I WANT THEM TO U0. I GOT TO HAVE PARTICULAR WHITE ONES 'CAUSE I CANNOT MAKE IT WITH THE BLACK ONES NO MORE ALL BLACK. I GOT TO HAVE ME .SOME WHITE TEENAGERS WITH THEM HAIRDos. IT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ERDM ouTER SPACE. AND I'LL TEA<H THEM How To SING AND I cAN HAVE TH EM To BE RIGHT THERE AND I ¢AN Do MY DAN<Es wITH THEM AND sINc. wITH THEM AND SHARE THE WORLD. I'M coma To SHARE THE woRI.D. BuT I wANT TH EM To HAVE . . . I wANT THEM To BE . . . LOOK LIKE THEY I=RoM soME- wHERE EI.sE. wITH THEM HAIRDos AND THEM I=AcIAI. AND THEM cosTuMEs. I wANT THAT. I DoN'T HAVETIME To TEA<H THE BLACK oNEs No MoRE. I'VE BEEN TEACHING MY wHoI.E I.II=ETIME AND THEY DIsAI>I>oINTIN¢ ME 'cAusE I'M A SPIRIT. YOU KNOW. I'M NoT No MAN. suN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-15
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 16 (April, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: APRIL 1998 APRIL 199 ISSUE SIXTEEN ‘S-‘-:‘ ‘_.-:-' ‘ ' ' . SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, 94030 G) 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND PETER HINDS...JUNE 2,1986 . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:IT WILL COME TO LIGHT THAT THERE ARE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO ARE NON CREATIVE AND WHO(ARE)AGGRESSIVE AND WHO,IN FACT(IT IS) A TWO PARTY THING LIKE AMERICA GOT;REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATS,LIKE THAT.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN THE BLACK RACE.THERE'S ONE PARTY,YOU MIGHT SAY,IT'S CREATIVE,INVENTIVE AND EVERYTHING.LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND SO FORTH OF THE BLACK RACE.AND THERE'S ANOTHER PARTY THAT'S CRUDE AND VIOLENT AND PHYSICAL.YOU GOT THOSE TWO KIND OF PEOPLE.WHAT THE WHITE RACE GOT TO SEE:THERE ARE TWO KINDS.NOW,THEY BEEN LISTENING TO THE ONES WHO ARE MORE PHYSICAL AND WHO(ARE)MATERIALISTIC.THEY'VE BEEN GIVING THEM MORE AND MORE POWER AND THE_ONES WHO...
Show moreAPRIL 1998 APRIL 199 ISSUE SIXTEEN ‘S-‘-:‘ ‘_.-:-' ‘ ' ' . SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ° P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, 94030 G) 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER HINDS. SINGLE COPY: $4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND PETER HINDS...JUNE 2,1986 . . . . . . . . . .. SUN RA:IT WILL COME TO LIGHT THAT THERE ARE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO ARE NON CREATIVE AND WHO(ARE)AGGRESSIVE AND WHO,IN FACT(IT IS) A TWO PARTY THING LIKE AMERICA GOT;REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATS,LIKE THAT.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS IN THE BLACK RACE.THERE'S ONE PARTY,YOU MIGHT SAY,IT'S CREATIVE,INVENTIVE AND EVERYTHING.LADIES AND GENTLEMEN AND SO FORTH OF THE BLACK RACE.AND THERE'S ANOTHER PARTY THAT'S CRUDE AND VIOLENT AND PHYSICAL.YOU GOT THOSE TWO KIND OF PEOPLE.WHAT THE WHITE RACE GOT TO SEE:THERE ARE TWO KINDS.NOW,THEY BEEN LISTENING TO THE ONES WHO ARE MORE PHYSICAL AND WHO(ARE)MATERIALISTIC.THEY'VE BEEN GIVING THEM MORE AND MORE POWER AND THE_ONES WHO ARE CREATIVE AND THE ONES WHO REALLY HAVE SOME MORE WORK TO OFFER FROM A HEAVENLY POINT OF VIEW HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED.AND THAT'S THE REASON THE WORLD IS IN THAT STATE.YOU GOT THESE TWO PARTIES.ONE OF THEM IS VIOLENT,ONE OF THEM IS CRUDE,ONE OF THEM IS UGLY AND ONE OF THEM IS INVENTIVE,ONE OF THEM...YOU DON'T HAVE NO KINDNESS,NO SYMPATHY,NO FRIENDSHIP,NO LOVE,NO NOTHING IN THE BLACK RACE.AND THEN THE OTHER KIND:YOU GOT LOVE AND KINDNESS AND SYMPATHY AND CREATIVITY AND ADVENTURNESS. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY.WELL,BECAUSE OF THE ONES,THE OTHER ONES "WHO ARE AGGRESSIVE,THE WHITE RACE IN AMERICA(IS SYMPATHETIC)TO THAT KIND.THEY ALSO(OFFER OPPORTUNITIES):IF A(QLACK)PERSON HAS SOME WHITE BLOOD IN THEM,THEY BACK HIM UP LIKE THEY DOING(WITH) PRINCE.AND LIKE THEY DOING(REFERS TO SOMEBODY.UNINTELLIGIBLE). THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE WHITE FATHERS AND WHITE MOTHERS AND ALL THAT. THEY TEND TO BACK THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE BUT SEE,IT DOESN'T...THIS KIND OF VIBE(VIBRATION),IT HAS TO GOAD THEM BECAUSE WHAT THEY GOT TO DO(IS PROMOTE)WITH THE ONES WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER. 'CAUSE THEY NEED IT.THEY NEED IT.THEY NEED IT LIKE NEVER BEFORE. THEY MUST DEAL WITH THOSE WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER...NOT JUST AMERICA BUT THE WHOLE RACE.BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE NO SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS.THERE'S NONE.THEY DON'T HAVE IT.AND THAT'S WHAT THE AVERAGE WHITES HAVE TOLD THEM.IN GERMANY,A LONG TIME AGO,HE (ALBERT SCHWEITZER)TOLD THEM THAT THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN THE WHITE RACE IS GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE.THEY GOING TO NEED... THEY GOING TO NEED SOMEBODY ELSE.THEY GOING TO NEED SOMEBODY IN THE BLACK RACE TO SET THINGS STRAIGHT.BUT THE DIFFICULTY,HE SAID, WAS THAT SINCE THE WHITE PEOPLE WERE TEACHING THE BLACK PEOPLE, THEY WAS GOING TO THINK JUST LIKE WHITE PEOPLE.AND IF THEY THINK LIKE WHITE PEOPLE THEY NOT GOING TO HAVE A SOLUTION TO THEIR PROBLEMS.THEN THE WORLD IS LOST.AND THAT'S THE REASON HE LEFT GERMANY AND WENT TO AFRICA.TO TRY AND DEVELOP THE BLACK PEOPLE TO THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM WHITE PEOPLE.THAT'S WHY HE WENT.YOU EVER READ HIS BOOK? PETER HINDS:NO.I'VE NEVER READ HIS BOOK. SR:WELL,HE WAS A GERMAN PHILOSOPHER.AND HE PLAYED ORGAN AND HE WAS A MUSICIAN.AND HE WENT TO AFRICA AND HE STAYED THERE WITH THE HOSPITAL THERE AND HE TRIED.HE SAID HE WAS DOING IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE WHITE RACE THAT HAD TO HAVE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT THINK LIKE THE WHITE RACE BECAUSE THE WHITE RACE.THEY WOULD HAVE USED THEIR...THEIR ENERGIES AND THEIR MINDS AND EVERYTHING. , , _, ___,V i _‘ A ,___._,,___..__.._._- _,._‘.,,..__:. ., . . , ,._..._.»-.._>._. ,.,.,._...,. _,.._.*..,_.....,.._-,.._.... .. ...._ _.,_._..__.._. THEY COME TO A PLACE WHERE THEY COULD BE STOPPED.THEY WOULD HAVE REACHED THE ULTIMATE.AS FAR AS THEY COULD GO AND THEY WOULD BE CRAWLING ON TO THEIR HANDS OF THE BLACK RACE.HE DEFINATELY SAID THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.BUT HE SAID IF THE BLACK RACE HAD BEEN EDUCATED BY THE WHITE RACE THEY WERE ONLY GOING TO DO THE SAME THING THE WHITE RACE DID.THEY WOULD NOT BE CREATIVE OR HAVE ANY ANSWERS TO THE PROBLEMS OF THE WHITE RACE OR EUROPE.HE SAID THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.WELL,OF COURSE,IT'S HAPPENING NOW.BECAUSE THEY CAN'T ASK NO BLACK PERSON,WELL,WHAT MUST WE DO?'CAUSE HE GOING TO TELL THEM THE SAME THING THAT THE WHITE MAN HAS SAID. AND THEY DON'T HAVE NO SOLUTION. PI-I:NOW,WI-IAT ABOUT somsonz LIKE MALCOM x? SR:WELL...HE MADE A MISTAKE.SEE,WHATEVER IS WATCHING THIS PLANET YOU'RE NOT TO ALLOW MISTAKES.YOU GOT TO BE SURE YOU HAVE THE EQUATIONS.THEY HAVE TO BALANCE.THE WORDS.THE WORDS HAVE TO BE EQUATIONALLY BALANCED AND YOU BUILD UPON THE WORDS.NOW,IF YOU GOT A UNINTELLIGIBLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,NOT EQUATIONAL,IT'S NO GOOD.AND MALCOM X WAS DEALING WITH THE THOUGHTS OF THE WHITE RACE.BUT THESE FORCES I'M DEALING WITH UNINTELLIGIBLE.IF YOUR OWN RACE IS NOT QUITE PROPER YOU GOT TO DEAL WITH THEM FIRST.TALK ABOUT THEM.THEN AFTER YOU TALK ABOUT THEM AND EVERYTHING AND TELL THEIR FAULTS AND TELL THE TRUTH ON THEM THEN YOU GO OUT TO THE WORLD AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE OTHER NATIONS.BUT ITS NOT PROPER TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER NATION AND YOUR OWN IS NOT IN LINE.IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ACCEPTED.AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.'CAUSE A LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE IS DOING SOME VERY TERRIBLE THINGS.BUT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WHITE RACE.WHAT HE WAS SAYING ABOUT THEM WAS QUITE TRUE.BUT THEN,I'M NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.EVEN EVERYBODY WHO STAYS IN THE HOUSE WITH ME(IN PHILADELPHIA).EVERYDAY,IF THEY DOING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT PROPER,I TELL THEM.YOU SEE,I HAVE TO START A NEW HOUSE.UNINTELLIGIBLE.YOU NOT PROPER.YOU NOT...UNIN- TELLIGIBLE TO BE PART OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.AND YOU'D BEST STRAIGHTEN UP BECAUSE I'M GOING OUT TO THE WORLD AND I'M TELLING YOU,YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF TO A CHANGING WORLD.NOW,I WAS TEL- LING THEM RIGHT HERE,LIKE I TOLD MARSHALL'S(ALLEN)FATHER.YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF TO A CHANGING WORLD AND FORGET ABOUT HOW OLD YOU ARE.YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF,YOU UNDERSTAND.AND FORGET THE PAST. UNLESS YOU_THOUGHT_IT WAS RIGHT AND_WHAT YOU THINK OUGHT TO BE. YOU ACTING JUST LIKE THE WEATHER.THIS IS DOOMED(?).SO YOU GOING TO GO DOWN AND WEAR YOUR LITTLE PANTS JUST LIKE YOU USED TO DO BUT THE WEATHER'S GOING DOWN TO FOURTY DEGREES SO,THEREFORE,YOU MUST PUT ON YOUR LONG UNDERWEAR(LAUGHS).SO HE WAS LISTENING.(HE) SAID,I'M GOING TO PUT THEM ON WHEN I GO BACK HOME.I WAS TELLING EVERYBODY IN THIS BAND,YOU MUST ADJUST YOURSELF TO A CHANGING WORLD.I UNINTELLIGIBLE MOVING SO FAST AND STILL MOVE FASTER.I SEE BUSINESSES GOING OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T CONTROL WHAT THE COMPETITION OR OTHER BUSINESSES ARE DOING.BECAUSE THERE _ ARE SO MANY NEW INVENTIONS,SO MANY THINGS THAT..IT PUTS PEOPLE OUT OF BUSINESS. PH:I MISSED WHAT YOU SAID THERE.WHO'S GOING OUT OF BUSINESS? SR:BUSINESSES ARE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS ‘CAUSE THEY GOT SO MANY NEw PRODUCTS.AND THE COMPETITION AND THEN PEOPLE wANT MORE MONEY.AND THEN THEY CAN'T...IP YOU GOT A COMPETITION.YOU COMPE- TITIvE,YOU GOT MORE MONEY HE CAN PUT SOMETHING OUT THERE... THAT'S TIME SAVING AND ALL THAT AND PUT THEM ROBOTS OUT THERE AND THEY CAN PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINEsS.THAT'S wHAT'S HAPPENING. THEN THAT MEANS,LIKE,THE PARMER AND THE POOR PERSON CANNOT KEEP UP.THAT'S wHAT's HAPPENING.SO,YOU KNOW,IT’S VERY CRITICAL POSITION AND MORE AND MORE YOU GOT ALL THESE NEW INvENTIONs.IN- vENTIONS,INvENTIONS.BUT SOME MEN.YOU SEE.ARE NOT CAPABLE OF BEING wITH THAT KIND OP MIND.NOw.THEY CAN DO THE LABOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT AS FAR AS THEM#UNINTELLIGIBLE,THEY CANfT DO IT. SO ALTHOUGH THEY TALKING ABOUT ALL MEN ARE EQUAL,IT DOESN'T FIT. SOME MEN CAN...IS VERY GOOD AT MATHEMATICS.SOME MEN JUST CAN'T DO IT.NOW,SO THEREFORE THE DOCTRINE OF EQUALITY IS VERY DESTRUC- TIVE BECAUSE YOU'LL TAKE SOMEBODY AND PUT THEM QVER,IN EINSTEIN UNINTELLIGIBLE A MAN,THINKING HE-WAS CAPABLE OF ACTUALLY MASTER- ING IT,'CAUSE HE CAN'T DO IT.AND YOU DON'T HAVE...YOU DON'T HAVE ‘A UNINTELLIGIBLE BORN EVERYDAY,EITHER.YOU DON'T HAVE A LOUIS ARM- Y STRONG BORN EVERYDAY,BILLIE'HOLIDAY.SO THEN IT MIGHT SOUND ALL VERY NICE TO TALK ABOUT THIS EQUALITY STUFF BUT WHAT NOW...THE WORLD NEEDS SOME PEOPLE THAT CAN FIT IN CERTAIN SLOTS TO GET THIS PLANET IN ORDER.THEY NEED THAT.AND THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO CAN DO IT.BUT AS I TELL YOU,THEY'RE NOT AGGRESSIVE.THEY STAY IN THE BACKGROUND.THEY DON'T WANT TO BE TRAMPLED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ONES. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . . . . . ..... THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 31.l988...BEST WESTERN MOTEL... . . . . . . .. SAN o u o o o oooooo O o o o IIOOOOOC o o o o o o o o o o o colonic 0 PETER HINDS:(WALKING TOWARDS SUN RA'S ROOM AFTER TALKING WITH CARL LEBLANC WHO WAS OFF TO VISIT BUCKNER MUSIC IN SEARCH OF SHEET MUSIC FOR DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND WRITTEN BY LALO SCHRIFRIN AND GAIL GARNETT.FROM THE FILM COOL HAND LUKE.)HE(SUN RA)REALLY WANTS DOWN HERE ON THE GROUND. JOHN HINDS:I SUSPECT THAT'S WHAT HE'S LOOKING FOR. PETER HINDS:(ENTERING ROOM FOURTY SEVEN.THE DOOR IS OPEN.)SUN RA. HOW ARE YOU? SUN RA:...AND THEN HE CAME AND HE WANTED TO RECITE THIS POETRY TO ME.HE WAS A GOOD POET. PETER HINDS:THE MAN LAST NIGHT?(IN SANTA CRUZ) SUN RA:YES.COULDN'T GET RID OF HIM.(THE CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA AND THE POET WILL APPEAR IN A FUTURE ISSUE OF SRR.)BUT HE FELT SOMETHING.HE PROBABLY WAS PSYCHIC,YOU KNOW.AND HE WAS I ANALYZING...ANALYZING ME IN.SOME KIND OF SENSE.HE RAN UP AGAINST SOMETHING HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.HE'S VERY INTELLIGENT AND HE WAS TRYING TO SEE...WHAT...WHAT AM I IN A SENSE'CAUSE UNINTELLIGIBLE HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND.HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND.AND I WENT,WHAT HE SAYING THAT FOR?HE DID.HE JUMPED UP AND SAID FIVE THOUSAND.THEN, THEN HE CAME AND HE ASKED ME HOW OLD I WAS.AND I SAID FIVE THOU- SAND YEARS OLD.BUT THE POINT OF IT:HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND BEFORE HE CAME IN THERE.AND WHAT WAS THAT?HE DIDN'T SAY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.HE STOOD UP,NO,HE SAID FIVE THOUSAND.HE DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ME.HE JUST SAID HIS GIRLFRIEND SAID THAT WAS IT.THAT I WAS THE GREATEST ONE ON THE PLANET IN MUSIC.HE SAID HE CAME OUT(AND) HE NEVER HEARD(SUN RA).THAT HE SAID THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS SAYING ALL THE TIME.HE SAID SHE COULDN'T COME TONIGHT.I WANT TO SHAKE HER UP.I WANT YOUR AUTOGRAPH.UNINTELLIGIBLE.HAVE A FIT WHEN SHE SEE THAT.BUT...HE SAID,'THAT'S IT.SHE TOLD THE TRUTH.YOU ARE THE GREATEST.BAR NONE.UNINTELLIGIBLE THAN ANYBODY AND THAT'S IT. UNINTELLIGIBLE WHAT THE WORLD WILL SAY UNINTELLIGIBLE.I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT.I KNOW MYSELF.YOU'RE THE GREATEST.'.... YOU DIDN'T GET THE SONG,DID YOU? JH:NO.HAVEN'T FOUND THAT.I WILL EVENTUALLY.BUT PROBABLY NOT BEFORE YOU DO. SR:WELL,I HAVE WAYS AND MEANS.IF I HAVE TO USE MY INTUITION TO FIND IT.YOU ALL COULDN'T...YOU ALL COULDN'T USE YOUR BRAIN AND FIND IT,I'LL USE MY INTUITION.I'LL PROBABLY HAVE IT IN A FEW MINUTES.MAYBE. JH:REALLY. SR:YEAH.'CAUSE I HAVE TO...IT JUST.THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES WITH ME.IT GOES WITH ME LIKE THAT.A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GROWING(AND)THEY REACH A STAGE WHERE THEY VERY LONELY...A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET REACH THAT STATE.OUT SIDE THEIR NATION.FAMILY.THEY DONE" i REACHED IT.THAT'S IT.SO THEY READY.UNINTELLIGIBLE UNIVERSAL 5 FORCES GETTING READY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.BUT'THEY HAD TO GO‘ 1 UP TO THAT POINT...TO MAKE CHOICES.THEY HAVE TO BE APPROACHED AND I r TELL THE TRUTH.TRUTH THEY NEVER HEARD BEFORE...IN CERTAIN WAYS. LIKE YOU LEARN A CHILD.ONE...AND FIRST YOU TELL THEM ONE.THEN YOU I SAY TWO,THEN THREE AND FINALLY YOU GET AWAY(COUNTS QUICKLY ONE y THROUGH NINE)...AND TEN AND THEN YOU GO ON FROM THATuBUT HE GOT 3 TO LEARN ONE.TWO...NINE FIRST.THAT'S THE WAY PEOPLE ARE.IT'S UN- f FORTUNATE.THE CREATOR NEVER.NEVER REACHED PEOPLE.HE NEVER TRIED. L HE SET UP ALL THIS OTHER STUFF.LIKE SETTING UP THINGS FOR LITTLE J CHILDREN.FAIRY TALES,YOU.KNOW.HE DID THAT TO MOSES.TOO.HE JUST... N LET THEM EGYPTIAN PRIESTS TEACH HIM.THE SUN PRIEST TAUGHT HIM... ‘ MYTHS.AND THEN HE DEVELOPED WITH A LOT OF POWER BELIEVING IN THE { MYTHS AND THINGS AND HE USED IT.BUT HE USED TO ABUSE PEOPLE,KILL f PEOPLE.HE HAD ALL THAT POWER...AND HE ENDED UP KILLING PEOPLE. f HE KILLED A LOT OF PEOPLE AND HE...THEN EVENTUALLY HE MADE A , MISTAKE AND HE HAD TO DIE,TOO AND DIDN'T REACH THE PROMISE LAND. I JUST LIKE REVEREND KING.UNINTELLIGIBLE HE WENT ON THE MOUNTAIN. ' SEEN THE GLORY OF THE LORD.THEY SAY.YOU KNOW.HE DIDN'T GET IN UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT'S LIKE THAT.THERE WAS A GOD BUT HE JUMPED OVER i INTO...HE JUMPED OVER INTO MYTHOLOGY.HE JUMPED OVER INTO THAT. g AND LEFT THE REALITY.AND PEOPLE LEFT HOLDING THE REALITY.HE LEFT { THE REALITY.'CAUSE THE PEOPLE...THEY DIDN'T,THE PEOPLE DIDN'T f DEVELOP THEMSELVES TO THE POINT WHERE THEY COULD ACCEPT WHAT HE i WAS.HE JUST LET THEM LET THEIR IDEA OF WHAT HE IS.HE LET THEM HAVE IT.BUT IT DIDN'T SUIT WHAT HE REALLY IS SO HE JUST LET THEM HAVE IT AND LET THEM GO ON WITH THEIR FALSE IDEA. } T SUN RA:YOU GOT TO REACH PEOPLE WITH ALL KIND A OF SOUNDS NOW. i‘ SOUNDS.THAT'S WHAT THEY NEED.THEY GOT TO HAVE SOUND BODIES,NOW. 9 SOUND MINDS.HE BEEN PLAYING THE SOUND(REFERS TO JH WHO HAS BEEN I PLAYING A CYMBAL NEXT TO SUN RA).A LOT OF MUSICIANS ON THE PLANET ] BUT THEY DON'T HAVE NO SOUND.THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG.THEY DON'T HAVE j THE SOUND.AND I HEAR A LOT OF SINGERS...AIN'T GOT NO SOUND.THEY § BE SINGING EVERYTHING ON THE BEAT...AND THAT AIN'T JAZZ(LAUGHS). J BUT THEY GOOD SINGERS LIKE JOHNNY MATHIS.HE SINGS EVERYTHING JUST ) . LIKE IT'S WRITTEN.HE BE PUTTING HIS FEELING,WHATEVER HE GOT BUT 3 HE AIN'T GOT NO JAZZ FEELING.HE'S NOT A CREATOR.HE JUST SINGS.AND .._. _._.__.u..m» m § HE BE SINGING.BUT HE AIN'T SAYING NOTHING.LIKE,THE WORLD HAS JUST g GOT HIGHWAYS.IT GOT SOME PATHWAYS UP THERE ON THE MOUNTAIN.HIGH- 9 WAYS CAN'T GO UP THERE.THEY ALWAYS GO ON THE HIGHWAYS.THE BEATEN 3 TRACK WHERE EVERYBODY'S GOING TO GO.WELL,I DON'T DO THAT.I'M AL- ? WAYS TRAVELLING UNKNOWN PATHWAYS.ALL THE TIME.I'LL NEVER KNOW NOTHING.I DON'T NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING.IT'S TOO BIG FOR ME TO KNOW 3 ANYTHING.IT'S SO BIG OUT THERE.EVEN THIS PLANET IS BIG.AND YOU r GET OUT THERE TO OUTER SPACE IT'S SO BIG ‘TILL YOUR MIND...DON'T ‘ WANT TO CONCEIVE OF NOTHING THAT BIG'CAUSE EVERYTIME YOU'RE NOT i BIG.THAT MAKES YOU A LITTLE SMALLER.AND FINALLY YOU FIND YOURSELF Q9-.a....-4. ..--‘man \....-.i...L...v_:...;.‘.>u-...:....u..-’ -' . . .. _.X_._.u..m. m SO SMALL THAT YOU DON'T EXIST.SO THAT'S...THAT'S IT.AND THAT'S THE REASON A LOT OF PEOPLE,THE MORE THEY LEARN...IT JUST...IT DESTROYS THEIR PRIDE AND EVERYTHING TO SEE HOW LITTLE THEY ARE... BUT...IT DON'T WORRY ME.THAT'S 'CAUSE I'M IGNORANT,YOU SEE.BUT, SEE.IF I WAS INTELLIGENT AND SMART THEN I'D GO CRAZY.I WOULD REALIZE HOW SMALL I AM.BUT SINCE I'M IGNORANT IT DON'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.I DIDN'T MAKE ALL THIS AND...OR MAYBE I DID.I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER I DID OR NOT.I DON'T KNOW NOTHING.MAYBE I DID. MAYBE I CAN CHANGE IT.SO I DON'T KNOW NOTHING.I CAN'T SAY THAT I DIDN'T MAKE THIS.I CAN'T SAY I DID BECAUSE IF I COULD SAY IT THEN I'D BE WISE BUT I'M OTHERWISE.SO I DIDN'T EVEN SAY NOTHING. I'M NOT GOING TO SAY NOTHING BUT JUST TELL PEOPLE WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO IF THEY WANT TO SURVIVE.THEY CAN COME HERE AND THEY LIVE AND THEY DIE AND THEY COME BACK AND THEY LIVE AND THEY DIE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.YOU GOT THE KIND OF CREATOR THAT HE DON'T CARE.YOU LIVE ALL THE TIME FOR EVERY- BODY.DIE,COME BACK LIKE THE TREES OUT THERE.WHEN WINTER COMES AND THEN THEY UNINTELLIGIBLE AND EVERYTHING.SPRING COMES THEN THEY GET UNINTELLIGIBLE.PEOPLE CAN BE LIKE THAT,TOO.THEY COME BACK THROUGH THEIR CHILDREN,MAYBE.BUT...IT AIN'T TOO GOOD TO COME BACK HERE.ONLY CHILDREN COME BACK HERE.THEY TEACHING THAT UNLESS A MAN BE BORN AGAIN...BUT,YOU KNOW,YOU DO HAVE SOMETHING SUPPOSED TO BE SAVING YOU...AND YOU HAVE TO WATCH IT.AND YOU REALLY SAVING.BUT HE PLAYING THE PART.AND UNINTELLIGIBLE PEOPLE BE BUSY PLAYING PARTS AND THE CREATOR PLAY PARTS,TOO. PEOPLE GOT THESE PLAYS.JUMP UP AND PLAY THE PART OF A BUTLER OR A PRESIDENT AND THE CREATOR JUMPS ON IT.HE JUMPS IN THE PLAY AND HE PLAY PARTS. TOO.AS LONG AS THEY PLAYING PARTS AND PRETEND,HE GOING TO DO THE_ SAME THING.AND THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG.THAT IS WHAT'S WRONG.'CAUSE ONE OF THE SCRIPTURES SAY GOD HAS GOT(A)SHADOW.BUT THEY AIN'T SEEN THAT.'CAUSE THEY DON'T RESEARCH.A SHADOW DOES WHATEVER YOU DO.AND HE GOING TO DO THAT.YEAH.IT'S ALL BACKWARDS(THAT)MAN IS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD....HE'S OVER IN THAT SHADOW.ALL AROUND HE GOT NAMES OF PLACES,LIKE,I SAW A SHADOW MOTEL.I SAID I AIN'T GOING OVER IN THERE AND STAYING.(LAUGHTER)GOT TO WATCH THE BAD VIBRATION AT THE HOTEL THEY SAYING,HOW COULD WE EVEN STAY THERE? THE VIBRATIONS ARE BAD IN THERE.IT MAKES THINGS BAD.AND WE STAYED THERE AND THE DRUMER WENT TO JAIL.(REFERRING TO DON MUMFORD WHO WAS ARRESTED IN SANTA CRUZ,QALIFORNIA,MAY OF l987)I HAD TO PAY $500 TO GET HIM OUT.I SHOULD HAVE LET HIM STAY IN DOWN THERE. PETER HINDS:SUN RA.WE WENT BY A...THERE WAS A HAMBURGER PLACE NEXT TO THE CLUB(IN SANTACRUZ)LAST NIGHT CALLED MURDER BURGERS. SR:YEAH.I SAW THAT. PH:YEAH.YOU'LL KILL FOR ONE OF THESE BURGERS.(LAUGHS) SR:I TOLD THE PEOPLE ABOUT THAT.WASN'T NOBODY THERE BUYING ONE. DIDN'T YOU SEE THAT,LUQMAN?(LUQMAN ALI WHO HAD RETURNED A FEW MINUTES EARLIER AFTER PURCHASING A NEW SET OF HI—HAT CYMBALS) LUQMAN ALI:WHAT'S THAT? I r SR:THE MURDER BURGER PLACE.THEY DON'T CALL THEM HAMBURGERS.THEY CALL THEM MURDER BURGERS AND SAY YOU'LL DIE FOR ONE(LAUGHTER). MICHAEL(RAY)WENT AROUND THERE BUT HE DIDN'T BUY ONE.MURDER BURGER.(LAUGHTER)...IT MIGHT BE WHAT IT IS.YOU CAN'T...IT'S REALLY A MAGIC WORLD.AND I KNOW IT.LIKE THIS FELLOW SHOWED UP IN PORTLAND.HE SAID THAT PEOPLE IN EGYPT CRAZY ABOUT ME.THEY WAITING FOR ME TO COME BACK...THAT THEY LOVE ME SO MUCH OVER THERE IN EGYPT..COME BACK.THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.I AIN'T NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE.BUT HE WAS IN THE CLUB BUT HE NEVER CAME UP AND SPOKE TO ME.HE HAD TO BE THERE.HE SAY.'WELL.ININTELLIGIBLE IN EXCRUCIATING PAIN BECAUSE I DON'T SMOKE AND THAT SMOKE GETS WITH ME BUT I STILL CAME TO HEAR YOU.I.WOULD'VE COME EVERY NIGHT BUT I COULDN'T STAND THE SMOKE.'THEN HE HAD SOME PICTURES TO SHOW ME TO PROVE HE WAS THERE.SO I HAVE TO GO BACK TO EGYPT..._ SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING.GOT THEIR ISLAM OVER THERE.THAT'S GOING. CHRISTIANITY AS WE KNOW IT,IT'S GOING.ALL OF THE RELIGIONS: THEY GOING.EVERYONE OF THEM.A LOT OF GOVERNMENTS:THEY GOING TOO. PARTICULARLY DEMOCRACIES.THEY GOING.FASCISM;IT'S GOING.COMMUN- ISM;IT'S GOING.EVERYTHING THEY GOT UP THERE,IT JUST TRULY GOING TO BE A KINGDOM...THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE A KING OF NO GOD.THEY THEY'VE DISGRACED THAT NAME SO BAD(THAT)THE CREATOR DON'T WANT THAT NAME AT ALL.THEY DID TOO MANY BAD THINGS AROUND HIM SO HE JUST WON'T USE THAT NAME.HE'D RATHER BE NO GOD.HE TOOK THAT NAME.‘ I SAID.'WELL.WHEN THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THERE'S NO GOD.THEN NO GOD TAKES CONTROL.'I MADE IT OFFICIAL...'CAUSE I HAD THE VOICE OF AMERICA(WILLIS CONOVER)AT CARNAGIE HALL SAY THAT ON THE STAGE. HE THOUGHT HE WASN'T GOING TO SAY IT.HE GOT UP AND HE SAY IT. WHEN THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD THEN GOD TAKES THE NAME OF NO GOD AND WILL BE NO GOD.SINCE THEY BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD. WHEN THEY SAY THERE IS NO GOD,THEY'RE MAKING NO GOD A REALITY BECAUSE THEY SAID THERE IS...AND,YOU KNOW,THEY CAN'T GET AWAY. THEY SAID THERE IS.ANYTIME YOU SAY THERE IS THAT MEANS THAT EXISTS. JH:LIKE AN EQUATION,RIGHT? SR:IT'S AN EQUATION.SO THE CREATOR SITS BACK AND LAUGHS.(THE CREATOR)SAID,'THEY SAY THERE IS NO GOD.I'LL JUST BE NO GOD,THEN. AND THE WHITE RACE WORSHIPPING NO GOD BUT THEY WORSHIPPING NOEL AT CHRISTMAS.THAT MEANS NO GOD.'CAUSE EL IS GOD.IT MEANS GOD. THEY WORSHIP NO GOD.AND BACKWARDS NO GOD,GRD IS DRAGON.IT'S DRA- GON BACKWARDS.THEY TURN IT BACK...NO GOD.D-R-A-G-O-N.EVERYTIME YOU USE A WORD WITH R IN IT IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE SUN.DRAGON IS REALLY THE SUN GOD ALL THE TIME.ANYTIME YOU SEE A WORD WITH R IN IT...NAME OF THE SUN.LIKE BABYLON.THAT'S SUN.THAT'S THE NAME OF THE SUN.ON'CAUSE IT NEVER GOES OFF.IT'S ALWAYS ON.IT'S ALWAYS MOVING FORWARD SO IN ANCIENT EGYPT THEY NAMED THEY NAMED THE SUN ON.LIKE THAT LIGHT.IT'S ON.AND SOME PEOPLE UNINTELLIGIBLE THEY GOT SOME OFFICERS AND THEY BE DOWN AND FULL OF OFFICERS AND THE POLICE OFFICERS.THEY BE OFFING FOLKS'CAUSE THEY NOT...THEY NOT DEALING WITH THEIR ON,THEY DEALING WITH THE OFFS.THEY TURN THINGS OFF.THEY JAIL PEOPLE.THE WHOLE THING IS BASED UPON PRINCIPLES AND WORDS.AND THE CREATOR GIVE THEM ALL THEM WORDS.THEY DIDN'T INVENT THESE WORDS.HE PUT EVERYTHING...LIKE HE PUT THE FLOWERS .. .... ._..,_.L__,_._.. _.I...,_.., .7.-. ......._.,.__..__ .-.. HERE AND HE PUT THE SNAKES HERE...HE PUT EVERYTHING.SEE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO WITH THEM.ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE USE OF IT? ARE YOU GOING TO KILL YOURSELF WITH IT?IT JUST LIKE YOU GOT A CHILD(AND)YOU GOT A FIREPLACE THERE.GOTS SOME FIRE IN IT..,.YOU MIGHT TELL IT,DON'T PUT YOUR HAND IN THE FIRE.HE PUT HIS HAND IN THE FIRE HE GOING TO GET A MESSAGE.EVEN THOUGH HE IS INNOCENT. HE DON'T KNOW NO BETTER.HE GOING TO GET BURNED.SOMETIME A BABY FALL OUT OF A THIRTEEN STORY APARTMENT BUILDING(AND)DON'T GET HURT.UNINTELLIGIBE SAID HE GOT PROTECTED.SOME PEOPLE GET PRO- TECTED,SOME PEOPLE DON'T.IT'S LIKE THAT.BUT REACHING THE CREATOR IS QUITE DIFFICULT BECAUSE I READ IT(ON THE)BACK OF AN LP WHERE MCCOY TYNER SAID...WELL,'IT'S NOT EASY TO REACH THE CREATOR.A LOT OF PEOPLE TRY.SOME PEOPLE GOT A HOT LINE T0 HIM.THEY CAN REACH. I'M NOT ONE OF THEM.I TRIED.NOT EVERYBODY CAN REACH THE CREATOR.' HE SAID THAT.NOW,I ASKED HIM ABOUT OVER IN... AND IT LOOKED LIKE HE DIDN'T EVEN REMEMBER IT.WELL,HE PROBABLY SAID IT BUT HE DIDN'T REMEMBER IT.A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THINGS THEY DON'T REMEMBER.THEN THEY SAID THINGS THAT COME IN THEIR MOUTHS,JUST BAM.THEY DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT.SO THAT'S THE REASON THE CREATOR CAN GO IN THERE AND SAY SOMETHING RIGHT THROUGH THEM.THEY DON'T EVEN HERE.THAT'S THE REASON THEY SAY THEY HAVE EARS AND CAN'T HERE,EYES AND CAN'T »SEE.SO THEY PUT SOMETHING UP BEFORE THEM,BAM!THEY'RE ON THE HIGH- WAY(AND)THEY PASS IT BY,BAMlTHEY DON'T SEE IT.LIKE,WE PASS SOME- THING(AND)I SAID,'DID YOU ALL SEE THAT?'AND NOBODY IN THE BAND SEE IT.I TOLD THEM,I WAS LOOKING IN THE PAPER(AND)I SAID,'LOOK, THEY GOT A SATURN CAFE DOWN THERE.'IN THE PAPER IT SAID IT'S WEIRD...IT'S SOMETHING WEIRD AT THE PLANET,I MEAN AT THE SATURN CAFE.I SAID,'YOU SEE THAT?'THEY DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE PAPER. AND THEN WE GOING ALONG AND WE PASS BY SATURN(AND)I SAID,'DID YOU SEE THAT?'AND NOBODY IN THE BAND SEE IT.(ASKS LUQMAN ALI) DID YOU SEE THAT?(L.ALI INDICATES NO)YOU SEE,THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. JH:IN SANTA CRUZ. SR:YES. JH:YEAH.THE SATURN CAFE. SR:THEY GOT THE SATURN CAFE.AND IT'S IN THE PAPER.WE PASSED RIGHT BY IT AND NOBODY SAW IT THAT WAS WIDE AWAKE LOOKING.SO,I SEE THAT ALL THE TIME.BUT I'M ALWAYS...I'M ALWAYS LOOKING...READING.I SEE STRANGE THINGS IN THE HIGHWAY.AND THIS PLANET JUST SITTING UP HERE READY...READY TO WAKE UP.IT'S MOST AMAZING.THEY'VE BEEN ASLEEP THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS.'CAUSE THEY SAID SOME- THING ABOUT THE CREATOR THAT HE DIDN'T EXACTLY LIKE IT.THEY SAY HE WENT TO SLEEP.SIX DAYS HE MADE THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND THEN HE WENT TO SLEEP.AND HE DIDN'T LIKE THAT.AND IT WASN'T TRUE.THEN THEY SAID THAT THE DEVIL'S ALWAYS BUSY.AND THEY MADE(IT)WHERE GOD WENT TO SLEEP BUT THE DEVIL DIDN'T AND THE DEVIL...THAT MEANS THE DEVIL'S IN CHARGE.THE CREATOR DIDN'T LIKE THAT EITHER. 'CAUSE HE WASN'T TELLING THE TRUTH.THE CREATOR'S ALWAYS CREATING. AND SO HE JUST LEFT HERE WHERE(THERE IS)NOTHING HAPPENING NEW UNDER THE SUN. BUT HE MADE IT WHAT THEY SAID.HE'LL DO NOTHING UNINTELLIGIBLE. PARTICULARLY BLACK FOLK...UNTILL THEY GIVE HIM THE PROPER GLORY. THEY AIN'T GOING TO NEVER MAKE IT.UNINTELLIGIBLE IT'S A PROBLEM. A PSYCHIC PROBLEM.LIKE THEM LITTLE CHILDREN OVER THERE STARVING TO DEATH.TAKING THEIR LAST BREATH.GOD AIN'T DOING...AIN'T LIFT- ING A FINGER TO SAVE(THEM).THEY'RE SO THIN THEY JUST...LAST } BREATH.THEY SUFFERING.HE AIN'T LIFTING A FINGER TO SAVE THEM. 3 'CAUSE THEY JUST SINNERS AND SOME FOLKS WHO DISPLEASE HIM.SO ' HE SAID,'LET THEM DIE.'THAT'S WHAT HAPPENEND.LET THEM DIE.IT'S ; STRANGE BUT TRUE.HE EXISTS ALL RIGHT.BUT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK E HE DOESN'T.BUT HE DOES.IT'S JUST A MATTER OF PEOPLE DON'T BE- ' LIEVE IN HIM...HE AIN'T GOING TO DO NOTHING FOR THEM.WHY SHOULD HE?SAME THING WITH THIS BAND.IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M UN- INTELLIGIBLE(DOING)I CAN GET RID OF THEM.I SAY I CAN'T MOVE V : FORWARD(WITH)THEM SO,THEREFORE,THEY HAVE TO GO.AND THAT IS { TRUE.THEY HAVE TO.BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE NO PROGRESS...YOU CAN'T ' LET THE TAIL WAG THE DOG,YOU KNOW.THEY GOT ALL THIS STUFF ABOUT 5 EVERYBODY'S EQUAL,CAN'T NO LEADER BE OVER IN NOTHING LIKE THAT. 1 THE WOLF LEADER AIN'T EQUAL TO THE WOLVES.AND THE BIRDS UP THERE } FLYING,THEY'RE NOT EQUAL TO THEIR LEADER UP THERE.ALL THE ANIMAL KINGDOM GOT LEADERS.AND THEY FOLLOW THEM,TOO.'CAUSE,I MEAN... IT WOULD BE BETTER NOT FOLLOW THEM IN A SENSE.I THINK IN WOLF KING IF A LEADER FOLLOWED OR SOMETHING OR DON'T LEAD THEY EAT HIM UP OR KILL HIM.WELL,THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES.NATURE TEACHES A LESSON.A BITTER LESSON.THEM SNAKES EATING UP LITTLE BIRDS AND ALL THE FEATHERS AND ALL.IT'S CRUDE OUT THERE.IN NATURE.AND MAN GOT ALL OF THESE...LOOK AT THESE MODERN THINGS.HE GOT ALL THIS. THE MOUNTAINS AIN'T GOT IT.HE GOT IT.WHY DOES HE HAVE IT?HE'S PART ANIMAL.WHY HE GOT ALL THIS?HE DIDN'T DESERVE IT.SOMETHING IS PUTTING IT THERE...HOPING THAT HE'LL...DEVELOP HIMSELF WITH IT.JUST HOPING...THAT HE'LL TAKE IT AND KEEP ON MOVING AND RISE UP ABOVE IT...THIS STAGE.HE HAS TO.HE CAN'T BE PART OF THE CREATOR TALKING ABOUT BEING RIGHTEOUS.CREATOR DON'T CARE ABOUT 1 NOTHING RIGHTEOUS.IN FACT,IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS WHY BE RIGHTEOUS I OVER MUCH?WHY SHOULD YOU DESTROY YOURSELF?RIGHT IN THE BOOK.AND ' OVER IN WHERE THEY TEACHING IT THE LUTHEREN WANTED TO BE LIKE GOD AND KICKED THEM OUT OF HEAVEN.SO THEN IT AIN'T WISE TO TRY AND BE LIKE GOD.THAT'S AN INSTRUCTIVE LESSON.THAT DON'T TRY TO BE LIKE GOD.SO THEN GOD MUST BE A NAME...TABOO.SACRED.SACRED } MEANS TABOO.IT MEANS DON'T TOUCH.YOU GOT ALL THESE CHURCHES OVER 5 THERE WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.THEY BE IN TROUBLE.SO THEY JUST LET ‘ IT GO ON AND ON AND ON AND ON... ALL THESE THOUSAND OF YEARS. * AIN'T TELLING NOBODY NOTHING.EVEN SAID THAT THE ANGELS DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING.RIGHT IN THE BIBLE.HE SAID THE ANGELS,HE ACCUSES ANGELS OF FOLLY.IF HE GOING TO ACCUSE ANGELS OF BEING FOOLISH,WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT PEOPLE?BUT DON'T NOBODY READ THAT. BUT YOU HAD THE ZIEGFIELD FOLLIES.THAT'S THE WHITE RACE AND THEY GET THE FOLLY.THEY ACTUALLY HAD THE ZIEGFIELD FOLLIES.HE SAY HE ACCUSE THEM OF FOLLY.FOLLY IS JUST LITTLE FOOLISHNESS,YOU KNOW. IT AIN'T HARMFULL,IT'S JUST A LITTLE FRIVOLOUS,FOOLISHNESS.THAT‘S THE WAY ZIEGFIELD FIXED IT UP.HE HAD THE GIRLS ACTING REAL SILLY AND FOOLISH AND FOLLY IN THEIR NAME.FOLLY.LITTLE HUMOR.HUMOR THINGS.THAT WOULD MAKE YOU LAUGH.THEY DRESSED LIKE THAT.IT WAS REALLY GOOD THOUGH.HE HAD SOME GOOD...HE REALLY HAD GOOD THINGS. SO GOOD THEY NAMED A THEATER AFTER HIM.A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME THROUGH THE ZIEGFIELD FOLLIES.BUT THEY HAD TO...THEM GIRLS HAD TO BE DISCIPLINED.THEY DIDN'T MAKE MUCH MONEY BUT THEY LOVED THEIR ART.THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH EVERY ARTIST.THEY LOVE THEIR ART.AND THEY..THEY EXPRESS IT.AND THEY DOING A GOOD JOB FOR THE WORLD.OF COURSE THEE ARE.THE ONLY THING THE WORLD GOT.THE WORLD DON'T PAY THEM MUCH.THOUGH.THE REST OF THE WORLD DON'T UNDER- STAND.BUT...SOME COUNTRIES DO.THEY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF ART.BEAUTY.THAT'S ALL THE CREATOR RESPECTS.UNINTELLIGIBLE < CREATIVE THINGS.A NATURAL CREATOR WOULDN'T BE INTERESTED IN NO IMITATION.A CREATOR IS INTERESTED IN SOME...HE INTERESTED IN CREATIVE,CREATORS.SOME HE AIN'T SEEN BEFORE.SOME HE AIN'T HEARD BEFORE.THAT'S IT.THEN YOU BE A CREATOR.TOO.SO YOU CAN REACH THE CREATOR THROUGH YOU BEING A CREATOR.AND IT HAPPEN.TAKE YOUR IDEAS AND PUT IT OUT THERE TO THE WORLD.THEY CAN BE GOOD IDEAS OR BAD IDEAS BUT IF IT'S CREATIVE EVENTUALLY HE'LL TAKE_IT AND TURN IT AROUND FOR THE PEOPLES BENEFIT IF THEY WANT IT.HE CAN TAKE...HE CAN TAKE A GREAT EVIL AND MAKE IT BENEFICIAL TO HUMANITY.IT DON'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.HE CAN TAKE THE WORST MAN IN THE WORLD AND MAKE HIM THE GREATEST MAN AS FAR AS HELPING PEOPLE.THAT'S RIGHT. SO THEN THEY DEALING WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF CREATOR.HE'S DIFF- ERENT FROM WHAT THEY SAY.THEY GOT THEIR IMAGE OF HIM,I'M TELLING YOU,HE GOT A SENSE OF HUMOR...HE BE PUTTING FOLKS IN SOME TERRIBLE,TERRIBLE CONDITIONS.BUT HE CAN'T GET OUT.THEN YOU SIT AND WATCH AND SEE...HE FIX ONE WAY FOR THEM TO GET OUT.AND HE SIT AND WAIT FOR THEM TO GET OUT.UNINTELLIGIBLE ALL MEN.AND THEY AIN'T GOT ONE WAY OUT.LIKE A LABYRINTH.I GOT A POEM ABOUT THAT. IT AIN'T REALLY A POEM.(IT'S AN)EQUATION SAYING THEY HAVE A LAB- YRINTH IN THEIR HEADS.UNINTELLIGIBLE GOT A LABYRINTH.AND I GOT THINGS OUT THERE THAT MAYBE THE WORLD SHOULD SEE BUT I'M NOT A MINISTER.I'M NOT SEEKING TO BE NO LEADER.I VERY(MUCH)TRIED TO AVOID IT.BUT I'M IN CONTACT WITH THE CREATOR LIKE NOBODY WHO EVER WALKED THIS PLANET.AND I'M IN CONTACT WITH HIM.I CAN DO THINGS TO THIS PLANET THAT NOBODY COULD DO.NOT EVEN JESUS.NOT EVEN GOD.CAN'T DO IT.THIS CREATOR IS ABOVE THE NAME GOD.YOU CALL HIM GOD HE GET MAD.SO THAT...THAT WORD IS VERY LOW.IT'S THE LOWEST THING THAT YOU...TWO WORDS ARE VERY BAD IN THE COSMOS: MAN AND GOD.THE TWO LOWEST THINGS.BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC. MAN IS NUMBER ONE AND GOD IS NUMBER EIGHT.NOW.IN MUSIC THAT'S... MAN IS GOD UP THERE IN THE OCTAVE.HE GOD...SO LET YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS,SEE.WON'T DEAL WITH THAT.SHOULDN'T TRY TO BE LIKE GOD. YOU'RE IN TROUBLE.AND ADAM AND EVE WENT TO THAT TREE AND THEY WANTED TO BE LIKE GOD...IN TROUBLE.PEOPLE...THEY DON'T SEE THAT. THEY DOING ALLRIGHT UNTILL THEY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.AS SOON AS THEY WENT OVER THERE AND SAY THEY BE LIKE GODS.THE SERPANT TOLD THEM TO BE LIKE GODS UNINTELLIGIBLE AND THEY JUMPED OVER THERE AND THEY ATE OF THAT TREE AND THEY BECAME AS GODS KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL,GOT KICKED OUT OF THE GARDEN.AFTER THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE.NOW,A LITTLE CHILD COULD UNDERSTAND THAT THAT HAPPEN TO THEM.IT—AIN'T GOOD TO BE LIKE GOD.AND GOD UNINTELLI- GIBLE.I MEAN,THEY WERE TOLD NOT TO TOUCH THAT TREE.SO IT MUST BEEN SOMETHING WRONG.PROBABLY GOD TELLS SOMEBODY...DON'T TOUCH THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE.UNLESS IT'S BAD FOR THEM.IT WAS BAD,ALL- RIGHT.UNTILL THEY TOUCHED THAT TREE THEY WAS ALLRIGHT. 10 i 2 [ n SO WHEN THEY TOUCHED THAT TREE THEN...THEY LISTENED TO THAT SERPANT THAT SAID,'YOU SHOULD BE AS GODS.'AND THE SERPANT TOLD THE TRUTH.BUT THEY COULDN'T REACH THE TREE OF LIFE,YOU HAD TO GET TO THE TREE OF LIFE AFTER YOU ATE OF THE TREE.YOU HAD TO GET TO THE TREE OF LIFE UNINTELLIGIBLE.AND THEN GOD PUT A BIG ANGEL THERE WITH A SWORD THAT THEY WOULDN'T...COULDN'T GET THERE.AND THAT'S THE REASON THEY DIED.SO THE SERPANT TOLD THE TRUTH.BUT THEY DIDN'T GET TO THAT OTHER TREE QUICK ENOUGH.SO THEY CAN'T SAY THE DEVIL LIED.HE TOLD THE TRUTH.BUT,HE DIDN'T TELL THEM THEY GOT TO GET TO THAT TREE.EVIDENTLY,THEY COULD GET TO THAT TREE ANYWAY.THERE(WAS)ONLY ONE FORBIDDEN TREE.AND AFTER THEY GOT ON OVER THERE ON THAT FORBIDDEN TREE THEY WAS...THEY WASN'T FOR- BIDDEN TO GET TO THE TREE OF LIFE BUT THEY HAD ANGELS THERE WITH A SWORD.AIN'T NOBODY GOING TO GO UP...DOUBLE EDGE SWORD.NO! UNINTELLIGIBLE ANGELS.WHEN GOD TELL THEM TO DO SOMETHING,THEY DO IT.WHEN YOU COME UP THERE YOU GET WHACKED.THEY COMPLETELY OBEDI- ENT TO GOD,YOU SEE.IF HE TELL THEM,NOW,DON'T LET THEM GO.ANGELS GOING TO BE OBEDIENT.HE NOT GOING TO UNINTELLIGIBLE.SO YOU GOT THAT SWORD.AND THEN JESUS CAME AND SAID,'I CAME TO BRING A SWORD.'IN A SENSE HE WAS AN ANGEL IN THAT INSTANCE.YEAH.HE WAS AN ANGEL.HE SAID,'YOU MUST HATE YOUR LIFE.'DON'T GO OVER THERE... MESSING AROUND WITH LIFE.'HE TOLD THEM THAT.DON'T NOBODY PREACH THAT.HE TOLD THEM YOU MUST HATE YOUR LIFE.AND WHY WOULD GOD PUT SOMEBODY THERE THAT KEEPS FORCING THEM TO THE TREE AND TELLING THEM...SENT HIS WORD AND SAY YOU MUST HATE YOUR LIFE?SO LIFE. THEN,MUST BE BAD.IT IS.HE SAY EITHER MAKE THE TREE GOOD OR MAKE IT EVIL.HE DIDN'T SAY,NOW,DON'T BE HAVING NO TREE TALKING ABOUT THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND THE EVIL.NOW MAKE THAT TREE EVIL OR MAKE IT GOOD.THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD THEM.SO THEN THE CREATOR DIDN'T LIKE THAT.AND YOU GOT A PEACH TREE'S A PEACH TREE.A PEAR TREE'S A PEAR TREE.SO YOU DON'T CALL A PEACH(A) PEAR TREE.YOU JUST CALL IT ONE THING.UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY MADE GOOD.EVEN GOOD EVIL BY HAVING THE TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL. JH:YOU WROTE A SONG ABOUT THAT.I REMEMBER YOU DID THAT OUT HERE IN '74.IT IS FORBIDDEN,STRICTLY FORBIDDEN... SR:OH YEAH,THAT'S A NICE SONG.I GOT A LOT OF SONGS INSTRUCTIVE TO PEOPLE.I'M NOT SEEKING TO BE NO MINISTER,NO LEADER BUT THEY WOULD LISTEN NOW BUT...ALL MY LIFE I TRIED TO BE OVER THERE, BEING NO LEADER.I DON'T NEED THAT.BUT,YOU SEE,THE CREATOR DON'T HAVE NOBODY ELSE BUT ME.SO I WOULDN'T DO IT FOR HUMANITY.I'D DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE NAME OF THE CREATOR...PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE CREATOR;THEY DON'T DESERVE TO KNOW ABOUT HIM. I'VE HAD SO MANY FOLKS I HELPED BETRAY ME AND BE...AND BE UN- GRATEFUL...UNINTELLIGIBLE.STAY OUT OF THE WAY.I COULD EASILY DO THAT.EGYPT IS WAITING FOR ME WITH OPEN ARMS.COME TO EGYPT.GO THERE IN THE DESERT AND JUST...STAY THERE.I'M NOT UNINTELLIGIBLE ON THAT.I'D GO RIGHT THERE RIGHT NOW.IT'S A FELLOW,HE'S A CAMEL DRIVER,HE SAY I CAN COME OUT,I CAN BRING THE BAND AND,YOU KNOW,THEY GOT SOME WONDERFUL TENTS THERE... CONVERSATION CONTINUES IN ISSUE FIFTEEN,PAGE ONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. ll THE MOOG SYNTHESIZER IN ITS POTENTIAL AND APPLICATION TO AND FOR THE FUTURE IS TREMENDOUS IN SCOPE,PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE CREATIVE NATURALS.IT MOST CERTAINLY IS WORTHY OF A PLACE IN MUSIC.THERE ARE MANY EFFECTS ON IT WHICH AT PRESENT ARE NOT UPON ANY INSTRUMENT.ON ONE OF MY COMPOSITIONS.MY BROTHER THE WIND,THE MOOG IS A PERFECT PROJECTIVE VOICE.OF COURSE.LIKE OTHER ELECTRONIC KEYBOARD INSTRUMENTS,IT WILL REQUIRE A DIFFERENT TECHNICAL APPROACH,TOUCH AND OTHERWISE IN MOST EFFORTS OF ENDEAVOR.IT IS A CHALLENGE TO THE MUSIC SCENE.PERHAPS IT MAY GALVANIZE MUSICIANS INTO HARMONY AND HARMONY UNITS AND THEY WILL BECOME EXPONENTS OF HARMONIC BROTHERHOODS,BANDED TOGETHER AT LAST TO ACHIEVE ENSEMBLE PRESENCE AND WORTH ACCORDING TO THE GREATER STANDARDS OF THE UNIVERSE... SOME MUSICIANS MAY FEAR THE SYNTHESIZER.IT IS AWESOME EVEN IN ITS PRIMARY DEVELOPMENT:BUT THIS IS A BOLD,AGGRESSIVE AGE,PIONEERING IN A SENSE BEYOND KNOWN FRONTIERS.MUSIC IS NOW A LANGUAGE OF EX- TENSIVE LANGUAGE(A PAN UNIVERSE INTERCESSOR),A LANGUAGE OF IM- PRESSION VIBRATIONS,AND AS SUCH IT IS A MAGNIFIED REITIRATION DI- MENSION OF PERMUTATES SOUND.NO DOUBT A SUITABLE BASIS FOR A SOUND WORLD... SURVIVAL IS THE WATCHWORD MORE THAN EVER FOR THE PLANET EARTH. MUSIC HAS ITS PLACE IN HISTORY AS AN INSPIRATION FOR SURVIVAL.IT WILL RETAIN THAT PLACE NOW AND DEMONSTRATE MORE THAN EVER BEFORE ITS PRICELESS VALUE TO HUMANITY,OTHER BEINGS AND THE UNIVERSE. PEOPLE ARE IN A FLUCTUATION OF CHANGE,BECAUSE OF THE VIBRATIONS IN THE UNIVERSE WHICH ARE DEMANDING OF THE EARTH AND ITS PEOPLES AN ADJUSTMENT TO AND RECOGNITION OF ITS PRESENCE IN ALL SPHERES OF THEIR LIVES,LIFE AND BEING POTENTIAL... SOME MUSICIANS CONTINUE TO FEEL THAT ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS ARE GIMMICKS AND TOYS BUT ITS ACTUALLY NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT. JUST AS IN ALL OTHER FIELDS OF MUSIC,THE ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENT WILL HAVE ITS NATURALS,THOSE WHO ARE ADEPT IN EVERY WAY FOR THE ELECTRONIC NATURAL APPROACH.AS FOR ME.I NEVER CONSIDER ANY IN- STRUMENT IN THE CATAGORY OF NO VALUE IN THE COMPOSERS WORLD OF CREATION;IT IS ALL ACCORDING TO THE TIME,THE PLACE,THE PERFORMER, THE PARTICULAR NEED OF THE_COMPOSITION AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN- VOLVED.ACCORDINGLY,ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS ARE NO EXCEPTION TO THAT CODE. I A THE MAIN POINT CONCERNING THE SYNTHESIZER IS THE SAME AS IN ALL OTHER INSTRUMENTS,THAT IS,ITS CAPACITY FOR THE PROJECTION OF FEELING.THIS WILL BE DETERMINED IN A LARGE DEGREE NOT JUST BY THE INSTRUMENT ITSELF,BUT AS ALWAYS IN MUSIC,BY THE MUSICIAN WHO PLAYS THE MUSIC. SUN RA WRITING ABOUT THE MOOG SYNTHESIZER........................ DOWN BEAT...JULY 23.l970.PAGES 34 AND 39........ . . . . . . . . ......... MORE THOUGHTS FROM VARIOUS MUSICIANS REGARDING SUN RA . . . . . . . . . .. THIRD IN AN ONGOING SERIES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. JACK DEJOHNETTE...DRUMMER,PIANIST AND COMPOSER... SUN RA WAS A BIG INFLUENCE IN CHICAGO.BACK THEN,AROUND l958,SUN RA WOULD BE READING COMIC BOOKS AND SPACE MAGAZINES AND EVERY- ONE USED TO THINK HE WAS CRAZY.I USED TO THINK HE WAS HALF AND HALF.BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT HIM-HE WAS HONEST-AND WHEN I HAD THE TIME I'D ALWAYS MAKE HIS REHEARSALS.I WAS TRYING TO DE- VELOP MYSELF AS A DRUMMER.AND IT WAS A GREAT EXPERIENCE TO PLAY WITH HIM. DOWN BEAT...NOVEMBER 2,1978.PAGE 26 DAVID MURRAY...SAXOPHONIST...COMPOSER... STILL,THE THING THAT I SEE AT THE HEART OF JAZZ IS THE SAME THING THAT WAS COMING OUT OF THE CHURCH-FOR ONE,THE WHOLE MATTER OF SPIRIT POSSESSION.NOBODY HAD TO TELL ME THAT PLAYING JAZZ ' WAS ABOUT FEELING,ABOUT'THE HOOK UP.'THAT'S WHY I CAN DIG THAT SOMEONE LIKE SUN RA'S ENERGY COMES FROM THAT SAME HOOK UP.IN FACT,SUNNY(MURRAY)TOLD ME THAT HE SAW SUN RA HOOK UP IN CENTRAL PARK ONCE. . DOWN BEAT...MARCH 25.l976.PAGE 39 YUSEF LATEEF...SAXOPHONIST...COMPOSER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH LEONARD FEATHER... \ SUN RA ARKESTRA...INTERSTELLAR LOW WAYS(COSMOS-INNER CITY) YEAH,YOU THREW ME DOWN THAT TIME,LEONARD.I'LL TAKE SOME GUESSES. I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS,BUT THE INSTRUMENTATION SOUNDED POSSIBLY LIKE A HARPSICHORD SOUND THAT YOU MIGHT GET ON AN ARP PRO SOLO- IST.IT SOUNDED ALSO AS IF THERE WERE AN ARP 2600 IN THE BACK- GROUND GIVING THAT EERIE,WINDLIKE EFFECT.I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT WAS A GUITAR OR A HARP. . . L I THE COMPOSITION SOUNDED SOMETHING LIKE WHAT MINGUS WOULD HAVE DONE AT SOME TIME IN HIS CAREER.IT WAS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN THE TUNE MUSIC YOU HERE THESE DAYS ON THE RADIO.I THINK THE COMPOSER HAD AN ORIGINAL CONCEPT.I THINK IT WAS COMPLETE IN ITSELF-I COULD A HEAR THE FORM.THE FORM WAS VERY SIMPLE,IN FACT,BUT IT WAS QUITE REPETITIOUS.IT WASN'T THROUGH COMPOSED-IT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN DEVELOPED MORE.A LOT OF THINGS COULD HAVE HAPPENED;BUT I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO HAPPEN,AND IT SOUNDED AS THOUGH HE PULLED IT OFF. DOWN BEAT...JANUARY 26,1978.PAGE 31 STANLEY TURRENTINE...SAXOPHONIST... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH BRET PRIMACK... SUN RA ARKESTRA...TAKE THE A TRAIN(LIVE AT MONTREUX—INNER CITY) NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.THAT'S MAX(ROACH).AND I THINK BILLY HARPER ON TENOR.I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO HEAR ANYBODY ELSE,THEY WERE PLAY- ING KIND OF FAST,AS MAX USUALLY DOES.I HAVE TO GIVE IT THREE STARS.I KNOW IT'S MAX.IT'S GOT TO BE. BRET PRIMACK:JOHN GILMORE WAS THE TENOR AND CLIFFORD JARVIS ON THE DRUMS. STANLEY TURRENTINE:NO KIDDING.WELL,THEN I'M GOING TO TAKE THAT THREE BACK.HE SOUNDS SO MUCH LIKE MAX,LIKE A CARBON COPY.LIKE HE PICKED UP EACH RECORD MAX EVER PLAYED AND LEARNED EVERY SOLO THAT MAX PLAYED.HE SOUNDS SO MUCH LIKE MAX.JOHN GILMORE SOUNDS GOOD. HE ALWAYS DID.I'LL GIVE IT THREE STARS JUST ON THE STRENGTH OF HIM. DOWN BEAT...DECEMBER 7,1978.PAGE 31 WILBUR CAMPBELL...DRUMMER... I RECORDED WITH SUN RA IN '56 OR '57.IT WAS A DIFFERENT EXPER- IENCE WITH SUN,BUT HIS MUSIC HAS ALWAYS HAD A FLETCHER HENDERSON ' FLAVOR.WHAT MADE IT LESS ODD TO ME IS THAT I WOULD COME DOWN TO REHEARSAL EVEN WHEN I WASN'T PLAYING,SO I SORT OF SAW SUN GROW UP WITH HIS BIG BAND.I'VE BEEN KNOWING SUN SINCE THE '40'S AND WE PLAYED QUITE A FEW GIGS TOGETHER. DOWN BEAT...OCTOBER 1979.PAGES 25 AND 26. RAN BLAKE. . .PIANIST. . .COMPOSER. .. BLINDFOLD TEST WITH ART LANGE... SUN RA...SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE A MOTHERLESS CHILD(SOLO PIANO. VOLUME ONE-IMPROVISING ARTISTS) I LIKED THE PULSE,THE LEFT HAND,AND ALSO THE BREAKS IN THE RHYTHM—THE RUBATO ALWAYS FRESHENED THE RYTHYM WHEN IT CAME BACK, INSTEAD OF THE TYRANNY,THE MONOTONY OF THE RHYTHM.THERE WAS THE FEELING THIS PERSON LISTENED TO DOLLAR BRAND-I HEARD SOME AFRICA IN THERE.I WANT TO COMPLIMENT THE PIANIST ON THE LACK OF RIGHT HAND FLASH. IT'S HARD TO GET A SENSE OF IDENTITY.SOMEONE WHO'D HAVE THAT SENSE OF THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE MUSIC WOULD BE JAKI BYARD, AND MIGHT DO THIS.AS THE PIECE WENT ON I HEARD A CECIL TAYLOR INFLUENCE-I WISH MAYBE MORE OF THAT HAD BEEN AT THE BEGINNING. IT WAS A LITTLE LONG-A GOOD TITLE FOR THIS MIGHT BE MOTHERLESS CHILD THEME AND VARIATIONS-I MISSED THE ARC.THE CURVE,AND WHERE THE CLIMAX WAS.YET IT WAS GOOD THE ARTIST CONTINUED,SINCE EACH VARIATION OFFERED A FASCINATING ARRAY OF COLORS.I HAVEN'T THE FAINTEST IDEA WHO IT IS,BUT I'M VERY,VERY IMPRESSED. DOWN BEAT...MARCH 1980.PAGE 53. ' Ts\\\\'l'\"\'\'-'.° I'M NOT DEALING WITH FREEDOM. AMERIcANs ARE IN LOVE WITH THE wORD FREEDOM. I'M DEALING WITH REALITY. PEOPLE SAY MAN'S NATURAL sTATE IS FREEDOM. BUT FREEDOM Is NOT wHAT MY Music IS ABOUT. A MAN Is NOTHING WITHOUT D|s<u>uNE. sUN RA MAR<H 1989 LAS VEGAS MORNING (ALL. PAGE F1 MARCH 18, 1989 l ) . . A RAER“ ¢O§/ER OUOTEFROMTHE NEwsDApER - PROVIDENCE RHODE IsLAND,1UNE 4, 1986, PAGE ONE. I WANT To MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ALL THIS HIIACKINC AND TERRORISM IF MEN COULD IUST HEAR SOMEONE IWHO woum GIVE THEM HoPE. i MY MUSIC COULD CHANCE THIS, I THE BEASTIAL SIDE OF PEOPLE WOULD SIT BACK AND LISTEN. I'VE BEEN LOW PROFILE. I COULD'VE HAD A LOT OF MONEY OR CONE TO HOLLYWOOD, BUT IsTooI> BACK BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT ME. I DIDN'T WANT ANYONE TO REMAKE ME. I KNOW WHAT I'M SUPPOSED To . . . HELP PEOPLE GET ouT as THE MISERABLE SITUATION } THEY'RE IN. I'VE KNOWN THAT SINCE I wAs A CHILD. SUN RA 1986
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-16
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 17 (June, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-06-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: wHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT Is AI., AND Is II1IzEsIsTIBI.E, AN PIS . YQUISTA RT P RV IN <-%BTH|N 45 BY YOU c.OT SOMET THAT's wHAT THIS PLANET NVE,EDs':“ EVERYBODY NEEDS BACK To E R sI<IIi‘~OI, THEvaOTTAsHEI: THEIR DESTINY, I ANQ I=INI2 ANQTHER ONE. I CALL IT THE vIcE DESTINY, LIKE _ YOU HAVE PRESIDENT AND \llCE‘ PRESIDENT.‘ <OUnsE, lI= YOU'D IIEADBMV BOOK, THE ‘llw\A\EASURAB|.EI. EQUATION,’ YOU'D‘? KNOW BETTER wI-IAT TAI.l(lNG f ABOUT. I DON'T THINK” YOU CAN c.ET THAT, NOT Now. . . I HADTO PAY FOR IT MYSELF, ‘CAUSE IN AM.EIzI¢A,ITHE MAIN PUBLISHERS SAID IT MIGHT As wEI.I. BE WRITTEN IN A FORE IGN‘ LANGUAGE As FAR As THEY WERE CONCERNED. IT SEEMED TO BE POETRY, IN AsENsE. BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S EQUATIONS, PUT IN NI<E FORMS. IUsT LIKE .3%PU'l'TlNG SOME cHO<OI.ATE ON TOP OF IT. IT wAs JUST sO STRANGE TOH1-HEM,IBE<AUsEE THEY GOT THEIR FIXED OI>INIONs. sUN BA SUN RA RESEAR OMNI PRESS. ED I I RAE, CA 94030 © 1998 V’? S: SINGLE ...
Show morewHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT Is AI., AND Is II1IzEsIsTIBI.E, AN PIS . YQUISTA RT P RV IN <-%BTH|N 45 BY YOU c.OT SOMET THAT's wHAT THIS PLANET NVE,EDs':“ EVERYBODY NEEDS BACK To E R sI<IIi‘~OI, THEvaOTTAsHEI: THEIR DESTINY, I ANQ I=INI2 ANQTHER ONE. I CALL IT THE vIcE DESTINY, LIKE _ YOU HAVE PRESIDENT AND \llCE‘ PRESIDENT.‘ <OUnsE, lI= YOU'D IIEADBMV BOOK, THE ‘llw\A\EASURAB|.EI. EQUATION,’ YOU'D‘? KNOW BETTER wI-IAT TAI.l(lNG f ABOUT. I DON'T THINK” YOU CAN c.ET THAT, NOT Now. . . I HADTO PAY FOR IT MYSELF, ‘CAUSE IN AM.EIzI¢A,ITHE MAIN PUBLISHERS SAID IT MIGHT As wEI.I. BE WRITTEN IN A FORE IGN‘ LANGUAGE As FAR As THEY WERE CONCERNED. IT SEEMED TO BE POETRY, IN AsENsE. BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S EQUATIONS, PUT IN NI<E FORMS. IUsT LIKE .3%PU'l'TlNG SOME cHO<OI.ATE ON TOP OF IT. IT wAs JUST sO STRANGE TOH1-HEM,IBE<AUsEE THEY GOT THEIR FIXED OI>INIONs. sUN BA SUN RA RESEAR OMNI PRESS. ED I I RAE, CA 94030 © 1998 V’? S: SINGLE COPY $5.00. CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA.JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS.............. THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 20,1984...PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL . . . . . . ..... BERKELEY,CALIFORNIA...ca................................... o o o o ow SUN RA:EUROPE SAYS THAT.THEY SAY,WELL,ONE THING THEY GOT AGAINST ME(IS)I INSIST ON STAYING IN AMERICA.THEY PUT THAT IN THE PAPER. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT THEY DISLIKE ABOUT ME.I INSIST ON STAYING HERE...IN THIS COUNTRY.SO,IF I GO TO EUROPE I GOT ALL THOSE COUNTRIES TO PLAY FOR.I WON'T HAVE TO BE PAID NO MONEY TO COME...GO BACK AND FORTH.I BE OVER THERE ALL THE TIME. JOHN HINDS:YEAH.WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME?AM I GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE OVER THERE TO SEE YOU,THOUGH?(LAUGHS) SUN RA:WELL,IT'S PROBABLY A BETTER PLACE THAN OVER HERE,IN A SENSE.YOU GOT A LOT OF AMERICANS OVER THERE GOING TO SCHOOL.YOU GOT A LOT OF AMERICANS OVER THERE BEING GIVEN GRANTS AND THINGS IF THEY SCULPTORS AND MUSICIANS.THEY GIVING THEM MONEY TO STAY THERE.THEY MOVING OUT ALL THE ARTISTIC THINGS AND THE CREATIVE THINGS OUT OF AMERICA TO EUROPE.BLACK AND WHITE...OR WHATEVER. THEY DON'T CARE.EUROPE HAS MADE UP IT'S MIND,GERMANY TOO,IT PREFERS CULTURE TO WAR.AND GERMANS ARE PUTTING UP A LOT OF MONEY FOR CULTURAL THINGS AT THIS POINT.SO I COULD GO THERE...AND STAY IN GERMANY.THE GERMANS REALLY LIKE...THEY LIKE WHAT I'M DOING. THEY LIKE WHAT I'M DOING.I DON'T KNOW...IN ORDER FOR...THE MENTAL STATE OF THE HAPPINESS OF THE FOLKS IN THE BAND.I KNOW I'D HAVE TO LEAVE HERE...THIS TIME I'D PROBABLY STAY IN EGYPT.I'M NOT COMING OUT.I DON'T HAVE NO NEED TO COM OUT.THAT'LL BE IT.STAY RIGHT THERE.YOU WANT TO SEE ME THEY COME TO EGYPT.DOWN THERE TOWARD THE DELTA...I MEAN...DOWN AND FURTHER DOWN IN THERE THEY SAY LUXOR IS SO BEAUTIFUL.THEY SAY IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL DOWN THERE. I NEVER BEEN DOWN THERE.I NEVER HAD THE OPPURTUNITY TO BE THERE BECAUSE EVERY TIME I GO TO EGYPT THEY BE GIVING ME A JOB IN CAIRO.AND IT WOULD BE SO WHERE INSTEAD,LIKE EVERY OTHER DAY OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS SO'I CAN'T GO DOWN THERE FIRST,LIKE,IF I PLAYED TWO DAYS IN A WEEK I CAN GO DOWN THERE AND COME BACK.BUT IF I PLAYED THREE DAYS OR FOUR DAYS I CAN'T GO NOWHERE.AND I'VE NEVER BEEN DOWN THERE.SO,I COULD WORK IN ALEXANDRIA,TOO.ITS... IT'S A BIG CITY. JH:BUT THERE'S...I CAN'T THINK OF ANYBODY THAT'S GOING TO DO IT WHAT YOU CAN DO.I MEAN.YOU GOT A FEW PEOPLE WHO COULD EVEN,YOU KNOW.WELL,WHO'S AROUND?LIONEL HAMPTON.HE'S A JAZZ PERSON.HE KNOWS... SR:LIONEL HAMPTON IS ANGRY WITH ME. JH:WHAT ABOUT HIM?HE'S ANGRY WITH YOU? SR:HM HM(YES). JH:WHY?'CAUSE YOU TOOK WALTER MILLER?(LAUGHS) SR:WELL...HE REALLY...ACCORDING TO WALTER HE REALLY APPRECIATED WHAT I'M DOING BUT WHAT HAPPENED IS ONE TIME HE WANTED ME TO COME.HE WAS PLAYING AT THE SHOWBOAT IN NEW YORK.HE WANTED ME TO COME THERE.WE WERE GOING TO PUT ON OUR SPACE SUITS AND EVERYTHING AND BE INTERVIEWED AND EVERYTHING AND I DIDN'T DO IT SO HE UNIN- TEELIGIBLE ABOUT IT AND HE SAID I SLIGHTED HIM BUT I REALLY DIDN'T.BUT I FELT THAT I WASN'T READY FOR THAT.NOT AT THAT TIME. BUT IT WAS BAD I DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP BUT I WAS BUSY AND(I WAS) WORKING ON A TIME,WORKING ON A TIME SCHEDULE AND I'D HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN THINGS READY AT A PARTICULAR TIME.IF I DON'T THE CREATOR PUTS ME IN DIFFICULTY.I HAVE TO HAVE IT.I HAVE TO BE READY.ALL THE'TIME.OTHERWISE I LOSE SOMETHING LIKE LOSING THAT MUSIC.MAYBE I SHOULD...I SHOULD HAVE JUST TAKEN ONE PERSON WITH ME AND I WOULD HAVE HAD IT,MAYBE.BUT I TOOK TWO SO THEY COULD TAKE CARE OF MY STUFF(AND)IT DIDN'T WORK.UNINTELLIGIBLE THE DRUMER HASN'T BEEN IN THE BAND LONG AND HE DON'T HAVE TOO MUCH DISCIPLINE YET AND TYRONE(HILL)AIN'T GOT TOO MUCH,EITHER SO...THIS BAND IS A BAND FOR UNINTELLIGIBLE . . . . . . . . ..I COULD MOVE TO ENGLAND.SCOTLAND LIKES ME AND...YOU KNOW,IRISH.ALL THEM NATIONS LIKE ME.WHEN I'M OVER THERE IT'S THE BEST PLACE I CAN BE.NOT HERE.AT LEAST MY SPIRIT IS TELLING ME TO LEAVE HERE AND NOT COME BACK.AFRICA... AFRICA WANT ME NOW.DON'T HAVE MUCH MONEY BUT I DON'T HAVE NONE HERE EITHER SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?AND THEY LIKE JAZZ.SOUTH AFRICA WOULD BE BETTER THAN HERE BUT THEY TELL ME IN SOUTH AFRICA THAT ON ONE STREET THEY GOT ABOUT SEVEN JAZZ RECORD SHOPS THAT SELL NOTHING BUT JAZZ AND THEY BLACK PEOPLE.AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT HERE.I AIN'T...(LAUGHS)BUT THEY GOT THAT.AND THEY GOT THEIR OWN TV STATIONS,OWN RADIO STATIONS,THEIR OWN STORES SO THAT'S PART OF THINGS IN SOUTH AFRICA.ELO'S BROTHER STAYED IN ISRAEL A LONG TIME AND HE SAYS HE'S A BLACK HEBREW AND IT WAS SO BAD THERE HE HAD TO LEAVE.HE CAME BACK HERE AND HE SAID SOUTH AFRICA IS PARADISE COMPARED TO ISRAEL THEY WAY THEY TREAT LOTS OF PEOPLE. HE SAID THEY TERRIBLE.THE JEWS.HE SAID IT'S RIDICULOUS.THEY STAYED OVER THERE.THEY DIDN'T TREAT THEM LIKE THEY WERE HUMAN. DIDN'T RECOGNIZE...THEY DID HIM WORSE THAN HITLER...ALTHOUGH THEY TALK ABOUT THE WAY PEOPLE TREAT...IT WAS THESE BLACK PEOPLE WENT OVER THERE WHO WAS...THESE BLACK HEBREWS.THEY TREATED THEM BAD. SO BAD.ELO'S BROTHER ...HE HAD TO LEAVE.AND ANOTHER BLACK WOMAN GONE THERE SAID SHE'S BEEN ALL OVER...TREAT BLACK PEOPLES VERY BAD.VERY PRETENTIOUS.SO,THAT'S IT.SO,THAT'S WHY EVENTUALLY BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TO GO BACK TO AFRICA SOMEWHERE.I SUPPOSE,EVENTUALLY, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.THE WHITE PEOPLE THERE... PROBABLY SELL A MILLION BLACK FOLKS THAT ARE GOING TO LEAVE THIS COUNTRY BUT I'LL LEAVE IT HERE.I AIN'T WAITING.THEY SAID THEY GOING TO DO IT.IF I LEAVE IT.THEY KNOW IF I DON'T GET A CHANCE,AS MUCH AS I GOT TO OFFER,THEY NEVER WILL GET ONE.THAT'S WHAT THEY LOOKING AT.THEY FIGURE AS MUCH AS I'M KNOWN WORLDWIDE AS I AM,IF AMERICA DOESN'T GIVE ME A CHANCE THEY DON'T HAVE ONE.AND THAT IS GOOD LOGIC. JH:THAT IS LOGICAL.VERY LOGICAL. SR:'CAUSE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT REVOLUTION.I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT...EQUAL RIGHTS.I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT NOTHING THAT THREATENS THIS GOVERNMENT.I'M OFFERING BEAUTY.SINCERITY.AND THIS SORT OF NATION THAT HAVE NO PLACE FOR THAT IS NOT GOING TO STAND ANYWAY. IT CAN'T STAND. JH:I KNOW.THAT'S THE PROBLEM.THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. SR:SO I GOT,I GOT SO MANY THINGS I'VE WRITTEN IN THAT HOUSE AND SCATTERED AROUND THE OFFICE YOU WOULDN'T EVEN BELIEVE IT.I DONE NOTHING BUT WORK,WORK,WORK,WORK,WORK.YOU SEE ALL OF THIS?(hEFERS TO SHEET MUSIC LAYING ON THE BED)THIS AIN'T NOTHING.UNINTELLI- GIBLE SEE I HAVE WRITTEN METICULOUSLY.I'VE BEEN SINCERE. JH:THAT'S AMAZING. SR:THAT'S A WHOLE LIFETIME DOING SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL.NOW,IT COMES TO A PLACE...I BELIEVE IN JUSTICE.NOW,I CAN'T BE TALKING ABOUT JUSTICE FOR NOBODY ELSE NOW.I GOT TO DO JUSTICE FOR UNINTELLI- GIBLE AND MYSELF.AND REALLY,THE BEST THING I CAN DO IS TO GET OUT OF THIS COUNTRY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.AND STAY OUT.WON'T BE BACK. JH:YOU NEED...YOU NEED THE GREASE AND THAT'S THE MONEY,I GUESS. 'CAUSE YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING ELSE.BUT YOU NEED THE GREASE TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.THAT MONEY THING.TO GREASE THE MACHINE.THAT'S A PROBLEM.IT GETS TIGHT LIKE THAT AND YOU'RE JUST STRAPPED. SR:I SUPPOSE I NEED APPRECIATION,TOO.MONEY WOULDN'T DO ME NO GOOD WITHOUT APPRECIATION BECAUSE THEN I'D FEEL WHAT I'M DOING IS NOT...POURING IT DOWN THE DRAIN.IF I'M NOT APPRECIATED AND GOT ALL THAT MONEY AIN'T NO NEED OF ME BEING OUT THERE FOR THE PUBLIC IF THEY DON'T APPRECIATE IT.IT'S RIDICULOUS. JH:TRUE.BUT IT'S,LIKE,IN SCHOOLS.THEY DON'T WANT TO TEACH KIDS THAT.THEY JUST WANT TO HAVE,YOU KNOW,MAKE THEIR MINDS NUTS AND BOLTS. SR:THAT'S'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANT NOTHING ELSE.YOU SEE,I WANT SOME- THING ELSE SO,THEREFORE,IF THOSE KIDS WANTED SOMETHING ELSE THEY'D DO LIKE I DID.JUST DEFY EVERYBODY AND LEARN.BUT THEY NOT DOING THAT.THEY PERFECTLY SATISFIED TO BE WHAT THEY ARE. JH:CONSUMERS. SR:IF PEOPLE CAN(BE A)PART OF SOMETHING THEY...THEY FIGHT BACK. BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE SATISFIED.THEY SATISFIED.I'M NOT SATISFIED. (LOOKS AT SHEET MUSIC)THAT'S SHADOW WORLD.THAT'S INCREDIBLE SOUND UNINTELLIGIBLE SOME OF IT. JH:I KNOW.THAT 7/4 THING.LIKE IT SAYS RIGHT THERE.THAT REED THING.WHEN DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT?THAT THING THEY DO. SR:SHADOW WORLD? JH:YEAH.THAT'S ALWAYS IMPRESSED ME...BUT THAT 7/4 THING. SR:7/4?THAT'S SHADOW WORLD. JH:WHEN DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT DUET? SR:IN NEW YORK. JH:NEW YORK.AFTER CHICAGO AND YOU WENT TO NEW YORK-TORONTO,I GUESS,AND YOU WENT TO NEW YORK. SR:WELL,I THINK IT WAS EARLY...IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DONE,PROBABLY DONE IN CHICAGO AND THEN I FINISHED IT IN NEW YORK.I WROTE(IT) OUT FOR THE BAND.SOME THINGS,YOU SEE,I PLAY ON THE PIANO LIKE THAT AND THEN I UNINTELLIGIBLE MIGHT DECIDE TO WRITE IT FOR THE BAND.UNINTELLIGIBLE GOT SOMETHING IN THERE AND THEN SOMETIME IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO PLAY THAT BECAUSE.BECAUSE IT'S WRITTEN FOR THE PIANO AND THEY GOT TO,HAVE TO TAKE IT AND TURN IT AROUND FOR INSTRUMENTS.IT TAKES...PIANISTIC THINGS THAT DON'T SOUND AS...IT'S(NO)GOOD UNLESS YOU CHANGE THE KEY.IT'S REALLY INVOLVED. YOU GOT TO CHANGE THE KEY FOR THE HORNS WHERE THEY'LL SOUND MORE BRILLIANT AND YOU HAVE TO PICK OUT THE RIGHT KEY.THAT'S THE AN- SWER.SO IT'S NOT AN EASY JOB.YOU GOT TO HAVE...IT'S GOT TO BE... YOU GOT TO BE A NATURAL.I'M A NATURAL,YOU SEE.I'M A NATURAL FIG- URING OUT PROBLEMS,TOO.I GOT TO FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM OF ME.I'D BE HAPPIER SOMEWHERE ELSE. JH:OH.THERE'S THIS THING IN THE MIDDLE OF HALLOWEEN IN HARLEM THAT YOU DO.IT'S,LIKE,AFTER THEY PLAY THE THING AND YOU DO THIS LITTLE INTERLUDE ON THE PIANO.(SINGS) SR:IN THAT LITTLE PART(IT)GOES TO ANOTHER TIME. JH:IT'S WILD.THAT'S REALLY WILD.IT'S LIKE THESE CHORDS.(SINGS) THAT'S A GREAT BASS LINE. JH:I DON'T KNOW.THAT'S ONE THING ABOUT HAVING A UNITED STATED CITIZENSHIP,I GUESS.IT'S A LITTLE.MAYBE A LITTLE STRONGER,YOU THINK?IF YOU'RE IN TROUBLE SOMEWHERE OR DO YOU FIND THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL. . SR:BUT THEY AIN'T TREATING ME RIGHT.A PLACE WHERE YOU NOT BEING TREATED RIGHT IS NOT HOME...THE EGYPTIANS HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING BUT HELP ME,YOU KNOW.THEY BE TRYING TO HELP ME ALL THE TIME.BUT THEY WOULD HELP ME MUCH MORE IF I WAS AN EGYPTIAN CITIZEN. ALTHOUGH IT'S A POOR COUNTRY IT'S A SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT AND BY BEING A SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT THEY HELP PEOPLE AND THEY GOT A LOT OF MONEY FOR PROJECTS. JH:IS THAT EGYPT'S STUDIO THAT YOU DID THAT SALAH RAGAB THING? THAT WAS AN EGYPTIAN STUDIO? SR:YES. JH:GOVERNMENT STUDIO? SR:NO.THAT WAS PRIVATE UNINTELLIGIBLE.THEY DON'T HAVE BUT ONE THERE.(YAWNS)UNINTELLIGIBLE.ALL THEY HAVE TO DO...MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THERE AND THEY CAN'T TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING'CAUSE THEY HAVE SO MANY UNINTELLIGIBLE WITH RECORDING.(LOOKS THROUGH SHEET MUSIC)A LOT OF SONGS...I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO PLAY.LET MB SEE.NOW. JH:WHY DID YOU WAIT 'TILL,WHAT WAS IT,LIKE,1955 TO PUT OUT A RECORD? SR:BECAUSE I FELT THAT PEOPLE WRE GOING TO MISTREAT ME THE WAY THEY DONE EVERY OTHER BLACK MUSICIAN.AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.I DIDN'T WANT TO BE MISTREATED.AND I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE I FELT IT WOULD BE FUTILE AND IT WOULD BE A RIPOFF AND THEY WOULDN'T GOING TO DO RIGHT 50 I STAYED OUT OF THE WAY. JH:YEAH.IT'S KIND OF A...ISN'T IT A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD IF YOU DON'T RECORD THEN YOU CAN'T BE HEARD BY A WIDER AUDIENCE AND IF YOU RECORD THE COMPANY WILL RIP YOU OFF? SR:IT AIN'T NO PROBLEM.ALL I HAVE TO DO IS WRITE FOR A RUSSIAN BAND.THEY WANT THIS MUSIC.SO ALL I HAVE TO DO IS START TO WRITE AN ARRANGEMENT(AND)THEY'LL SEND ME SOME MONEY.THERE'S NP PROBLEM. IF I...THEY GOT THREE REPERTORY BANDS IN RUSSIA.IF I TELL THEM I'LL ARRANGE FOR THEM THEY'LL PAY M£.AND THEY'LL HAVE THE MUSIC INSTEAD OF AMERICA. JH:THAT WOULD BE WILD IF OVER A PERIOD OF TIME JAZZ WAS TRANS- PLANTED TO RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING. SR:RIGHT!THAT IS THE ANSWER FOR ME.TRANSPLANT THE HEADQUARTERS OF JAZZ FROM HERE TO RUSSIA. JH:WELL,YOU'RE THE MAN TO DO IT'CAUSE I THINK... SR:I KNOW I CAN DO IT.THAT'S WHY I SAY ALL I HAVE TO DO IS CATCH A PLANE AND GO TO RUSSIA AND I'M THERE.AND IF JOHN(GILMORE)AND THEM(THE ARKESTRA)WANT TO COME,THEY CAN COME.IF THEY DON'T,THEY CAN STAY HERE.NO PROBLEM. JH:YEAH.'CAUSE YOU'RE THE ONLY MAN WHO CAN DO IT NOW.COUNT BASIE CAN'T DO IT.EARL(HINES)... SR:HE NEVER COULD DO IT BECAUSE.SEE,HE WASN'T A COMPOSER,REALLY. JH:THAT'S TRUE. SR:AND I KNOW ALL FORMS OF(MUSIC)...I KNOW ALL ABOUT RUSSIAN CLASSICS.I CAN TAKE THEM CLASSICS AND JAZZ THEM UP.I CAN TAKE THE CLASSICS AND MAKE THEM SOUND EVEN BETTER AS A DIRECTOR.AND IT WOULD BE PERFECT. JH:YOU NEED SOMETHING LIKE THAT'CAUSE EVEN...YOU KNOW,YOU GET PEOPLE OVER IN THIS COUNTRY THAT,YOU KNOW,IF THEY JUST WORK A JOB THAT'S JUST NOTHING... SR:ALL I HAVE To Do IS CATCH A PLANE BY MYSELF AND LEAVE THE | BAND(AND)GIVE IT up AND GO To RUSSIA.THAT'S IT.AND JOHN(GILMORE) a AND THEM WOULDN'T BE WORRIED.I MEAN THEY'D BE....THEY'D GET soME I JOBS. ! l JH:OH YEAH.SURE,THEY COULD WORK. PLANE AND GO TO RUSSIA AND TELL THEM I WANT TO CHANGE MY CITIZEN- SHIP.IT WOULD BE WORLD NEWS.IT WOULD EMBBARRASS AMERICA AND I HAVE'SOMETHING TO OFFER THEM AND THEY'D TAKE CARE OF ME BECAUSE THEY GOT THIS SYSTEM WHERE THEY DO HAVE A CULTURE DEPARTMENT THAT TAKE CARE OF MUSICIANS.AND I'M GOING TO HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.I'D HAVE AN ARKESTRA THERE AND ALL OF THEM DEDICATED TO MUSIC.IT WOULDN'T BE ABOUT POLITICS.IT WOULDN'T BE ABOUT NOTHING BUT MUSIC. SR:THEY'D GET JOBS.THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO DO.LEAVE HERE.CATCH A E I I ; I t JH:WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE. 4 I SR:IT wounn EE NIcE.ANn I WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT N0 SHOE ? STRING(BUDGET),I WOULDN'T HAVE To WORRY ABOUT NO MONEY.THEY'D § TAKE CARE or ME. 3 JH:WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE. SR:OF COURSE IT WOULD.IT'S THE LOGICAL THING TO DO.I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.SO IF I STAY OVER HERE AND SUFFER IT'S MY OWN FOOLISH- NESS,YOU KNOW.SACRIFICING MYSELF FOR SOMEBODY WHO DON'T CARE NOTHING ABOUT ME AND I DON'T SEE WHY I SHOULD DO THAT. JH:YEAH.TRUE. SR:NOT ANY MORE I DON'T.I NEVER SHOULD HAVE DONE IT.I SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN EGYPT.WHERE IF I HAD...I LIKE THE COUNTRY,THEY LIKE ME, THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS ABOUT ME...THE YOUNGER SET THERE LIKES ME. WHAT AM I WAITING ON?IT'S DOWN TO THAT,NOW.GOT TO MAKE A MOVE. -NOW,LET ME SEE.IF I DID THAT I COULD SEND AND GET THE MUSICIANS WHO I KNOW WHO ARE CREATIVE AND THEY'D COME TO RUSSIA.IT IS,BE SOME BIG COUNTRY AND THEY DON'T...THEY NOT BASING THEIR SYSTEM ON MONEY...YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO CHANGE YOUR MONEY TO AMERICAN MONEY BUT YOU CAN BUY THINGS.AND THEY WOULD APPRECIATE IT. YEAH.WELL THAT'S IT.THAT'S MY NEXT MOVE.TO_CHANGE MY CITIZEN- SHIP TO RUSSIA.THEY ALWAYS COME OVER AND I SAY,'WELL,I WANT TO DEFECT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN TREATED RIGHT BY AMERICANS.WHITE OR BLACK.'AND I FEEL THAT...A PERSON WHO IS REALLY TALENTED SHOULDN'T WASTE THEIR TALENT ON A COUNTRY THAT IS MORE INTERESTED IN MONEY AND EQUALITY AND ALL THAT FOOLISHNESS AND NEGLECTING ARTISTS IS NOT A GOOD COUNTRY FOR A CREATIVE ARTIST TO BE IN. JH:THAT'S FOR SURE. SR:AND THAT'S WHAT AMERICA IS.I EXPOSE THEM TO THE WORLD.GO TO RUSSIA(AND)STAY THERE.I DON'T NEED TO BE OVER HERE.MY SPIRIT IS GETTING REBELLIOUS,YOU KNOW.MY MIND MY TELL ME IT'S THE BEST PLACE TO BE BECAUSE OF THE MONEY BUT MY SPIRIT DON'T CARE ABOUT NO MONEY.SO WHEN YOU GOT A WAR BETWEEN YOUR SPIRIT AND YOUR MIND YOU(ARE)IN TROUBLE.THAT'S WHAT I GOT NOW. JH:YEAH.THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME KIND OF SOLUTION.IT'S JUST A MATTER OF FIGURING IT OUT,WHICH STEP... SR:THERE IS.CATCH A PLANE AND LAND IN MOSCOW WITHOUT A RETURN TICKET.ONE WAY.THE ANSWER.AND I CAN'T COME BACK.DON'T HAVE NO MONEY. JH:BUT EVEN THE,ALMOST,LOEST PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY HAS A CHANCE TO,YOU KNOW,”FINANCIAL SECURITY”AND THINGS LIKE THIS IF YOU BUY INTO THE SYSTEM. ’ SR:I HAVE NEVER SEEN A CREATIVE ARTIST IN AMERICA MAKE IT.I KNEW MANY OF THEM.I SEE SOME PEOPLE THAT WHITE PEOPLE BACKED WHO THEY WANT TO BACK BUT THEY DID NOT BACK UP THE CREATIVE ARTIST AND I'VE SEEN A WHOLE LIFETIME OF CREATIVE ARTISTS GETTING NEGLECTED. AND NOT ONE MADE IT. JI-I:AND,AS YOU KNOW,DUKE ELLINGTON HAD TO PAY HIS BAND our or-' pocxsr AND mom SONG ROYALTIES.THI-ZY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE rr oN THE ROAD,YOU I<Now.1'M suns YOU'VE READ IN HIS aoox AND organ PLACES, HE DIDN'T EVEN... - 4 SR:DUKE ELLINGTON NEVER MADE MONEY AT ALL.HE WAS RIPPED OFF,HE WAS RIPPED OFF BY IRVING MILLS WHO HAD TWO SETS OF BOOKS AND DUKE WENT UP THERE ONE DAY LOOKING AT THE ROYALTY STATEMENT AND THEY HAD,THE SECRETARY SHOWED HIM THE OTHER BOOK AND HE WAS SO IN- FURIATED HE QUIT IRVING MILLS BUT... IT WASN'T TOO GOOD FOR HIM AFTER THAT BECAUSE HE WAS RIDING PULLMANS(PRIVATE TRAIN)AND THEN HE HAD TO RIDE IN BUSSES AND THINGS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE,IN CARS. HE DIDN'T REALLY GET SUPPORT FROM BLACK PEOPLE.IN FACT,WHEN THEY WAS DOING ALL THIS FREEDOM STUFF IN WASHINGTON A CONGO DRUMMER SAID HE SAW DUKE ELLINGTON CRY.BECAUSE THEY PUT EVERYBODY ON BUT HIM.HE HAD HIS WHOLE BAND THERE TO GO ON,AND THIS IS WHEN REVE- REND KING WAS THERE AND THEY CALLED ALL KIND OF GROUPS BUT HIM AND DUKE CRIED.NOW,I'M NOT SAYING THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO NEGLECT,I'M SAYING AMERICANS NEGLECT CREATIVE ARTS.THEY BACK UP COUNTRY MUSIC.THEY BACK ROCK AND ROLL.THEY BACK EVERY- THING BUT PEOPLE LIKE ME SO WE DON'T NEED TO BE HERE.EVERY PERSON LIKE ME NEEDS TO PULL UP STAKES AND LEAVE HERE.SO.YOU SEE.IT'S AT THAT POINT.BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE INTO RELIGION.THEY INTERESTﬂI IN POLITICS,THEY INTERESTED IN EQUALITY WITH WHITE PEOPLE.THEY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME. JH:THEY BETTER FIND TIME OR THEN THEY'RE IN TROUBLE.AND THEY ARE IN TROUBLE. SR:YEAH.THEY ARE IN TROUBLE.THEY'VE BEEN IN TROUBLE EVER SINCE O THEY'VE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY.THEY HAVE TO...IS ALL KIND OF THINGS THAT'S NOT GOOD.THEY OSTRACIZE FROM THE REST OF THE AFRICANSgAND V‘ THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO GOT MONEY.WHO GOT THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.GOT"' — THEIR OWN HALL OF JUSTICE AND HERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DON'T HAVE EVEN A HALL OF JUSTICE.EVERY NATION ON THE FACE OF f THE EARTH GOT THEIR OWN COURTS TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.CON- DEMN THEIR OWN PEOPLE OR PRAISE THEM EXCEPT THESE OVER HERE. _THAT'S NOT NATURAL.EVERY OTHER...BLAcK NATION CAN sAY,NIGERIAN 'JH:0H,NO.I HOPE IT'S NQT_THAT. A DT;NAH.BARBACUE‘BEEF.(LAUGHTER) OR AMERICAN OR...wHATEvER COUNTRY OR UNINTELLIGIBLE IN AMERICA. THESE FOLKS ARE TALKING ABOUT THEY AFRO-AMERICANS BUT...THAT Is NOT PROPER.IF THEY SAID~THEY WAS AFRICAN AMERICANs..IT wOULD BE BETTER BUT AFRO DON'T MEAN NOTHING.AIN'T NO SUCH PLACE-AS AFRO. I MEAN...THEY GOT IT RIGHT OVER THERE wITH THE NEGRO AND THE . AFRO.THEY GOT.THAT RO ON‘THERE.NOW§THEY SAY'AFRO.NEGRO.SAME . THING.AFRO...LETs sEE...wHAT IS THE NUMBER THERE.FIvE AND FIVE IS ONE AND ONE Is SEVEN AND EIGHT.AND ONE AND FIVE...‘ , , . ,. (PETER-HINDS RETURNS WITH DANNY THOMPSON wITH SUN RAfs LUNCH.) PETER HINDS:HERE WE GO.WE STOPPED AND GOT SOME RIBS.HERE.A COUPLE ORDERS.ONE FOR DANNY... L — I I ‘ . * sR:RIBs§wHAT KIND OF RIBs?FORK RIBS? PH:I DON'TAKNOW.' A JH:THEY SMELL GOOD. SR;PORK GIVES GAS ON HY STOMACH. / BREDANNY xnows THE ANswER.UNINTELLIGIBLE.(DANNY THOMPSON ENTERS THE ROOM)YOU GOT sOME PORK R1BS,DANNY? A A ‘W J DANNY THOMPSONIYEAH. SUN ' \ I sR:YEAH,wELL,I GOT SOME WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT...THERE'S A NUM-." BER I WROTE ABOUT UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT'S VERY;IT'S ABOUT AN ARTIST, 7cOLONY IN FRANCE.IT'S‘BEAUTIFUL.AND I GOT ONE ABOUT sAN FRANCISCO}. I CALLED CITY IN THE cLOUDs.I wROTE... I ,X A A JH:I HEARD THAT ONCE.ONE TIME." PH:THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.ONE TIME IN '71 YOU PLAYED THAT.(AT THE FAMILY DOG AT OCEAN BEACH IN SAN‘FRANCISCO.APRIL OR MAY) SR:NOW,ALL THAT TIME I GOT ALL THIS AND NOBODY TO OFFER IT(TO). YOU HAVE A CASE WHERE A LOT OF BLACK MUSICIANS...THEY DOING WRONG THINGS.THEY JUST.THINK ABOUT MONEY ALL THE TIME AND THEY GOT A LOT OF TALENT BUT THEY DON'T APPRECIATE ABOUT UNINTELLIGIBLE. ‘\ .\\x «w . . m.\.\.«\»§..\ww. mx _ ........................................... -&-__-_--___;_--______\ I - SR:I'M A BIG TEST FOR AMERICA,YoU KNow.' JH:THAT'S FOR SURE; .SR:I'M VERY DANGEROUS FOR AMERICA.IF THEY'DON'T DO ME RIGHT THE CREATOR GOING TO-SEND ME UNINTELLIGIBLE TO SOME OTHER COUNTRY.I CAN SEEvIT.AND I CAN\GIVE THEM WHAT I HAVE DEVELOPED.IT'S HIS NEXT MOVE.HE GIVING AMERICA A CHANCE TO BRANCH OUT AND TO MOVE f OUT BEYOND EVERYTHING EVERY QTHER NATIoN(HAS)EvER KNowN;THEY CAN ,MOVE oN 0UT.OUTSTRIP RUSSIA.OUTSTRIP EVERYBODY.IT'S FANTASTIC I WHAT THEY CAN DO.;.IF THEY LISTEN.THAT'S WHAT A FRIEND OF MINE A TOLD THE voICE OF AMERICA(wILLIS CoNovER5.IE AMERICA BACKS THIS MUSIC UNINTELLIGIBLE.WHOEVER GETS THIS.MUSIC‘IS GOING TO CONTROL THE WORLD.TOLD THE VOICE OF AMERICA.HE SAID,'WELL,I CAN GIVE THE ‘ BAND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.'I SAID,'NO;WHAT WE WANT IS A CULTU~ RAL HOUSE SET IN EVERY STATE,AT LEAST EACH ONE OF THEM COST A MILLION DOLLARS,SO THAT THIS BAND CAN GO TO EACH STATE AND PLAY '» FOR PEOPLE.'SO...HE COULDN'T CONCEIVE OF THAT. KJH:BOY,THAT'S SHORT SIDED OF THEM.I MEAN,WHAT'S A MILLION DOLLARS ‘ L HERE AND THERE TO THOSE FOLKS IN A BUDGET? I V , SR:THAT'S RIGHT.IN EACH STATE I CAN G0 THERE AND PLAY.PEOPLE IN ’THAT STATE CAN-CoME TO THAT oNE PLACE.IN A CULTURAL HOUSE.WE. .WOULDN‘T HAVE To BE THERE ALL THE TIME BUT SOMEBODY WOULD BE THERE ALL THE TIME CREATING MUSIC IN EACH STATE.THAT'S NoT TOO MUCH To ASK.‘ I ' ' “ ‘A . JH:NO,IT ISN'T,‘ IT‘ I «E '. I, ' . , % K ‘ , * SR:SO THEY WERE OFFERED THAT AT LEAST TEN YEARS AGO oR MORE. voICE or AMERICA,CARNAGIE-HALL.HE wAs THERE.HE EVEN SAYS_SO oN' "MY POSTER.UNINTELLIGIBLE.DIDN'T MANY WHITE PEOPLE SHOW/UP AND VERY FEW BLACK FOLKS.IT HAPPENED WHEN REVEREND KING.WELL.UNFOR- TUNATELY,IT\WAS,LIKE{EASTER WEEKEND OR SOMETHING THAT REVEREND KING GOT KILLED.EVERYBODY(WAS)EXCITED OVER THAT.SO WE PLAYED TWO" NIGHTS AT CARNAGIE HALL.THE WIFE OF THE VOICE OF AMERICA WONDERED WHY PEOPLE COULDN'T HEAR THIS BAND.SHE PARTICULARLY WAS WORRIED. ABOUT WHAT DID BLACK FOLKS THINK OF ME?WHY DIDN'T THEY SUPPORT ME?SHE_WENT UP IN HARLEM,STOOD ON:THE STREET CORNER,PASSED OUT HAND BILLS.THAT'S RIGHT.THEY WAS TRYING.BLACK FOLKS DIDN'T SHOW UP.WORRIED ABOUT REVEREND KING.SO WE PLAYED A WONDERFUL CONCERT. DON'T HAVE NO RECORDS OF IT.THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT RECORDED A IT.THEY WOULDN'T LET US RECORD IT.WE-COULD'VE RECORDED BUT THE STAGEHANDS AROUND THE STAGE TOOK ALL OF THE_RECORDERS.WE HAD \ABOUT FOUR BASS ELUTES.IT WAS A FANTASTIC CONCERT. I ‘ I JH:BASS ELUTES.EoUR or THEM. SR{THAT'S RIGHT.SOMETHING LIKE THAT.ELECTRONIC INSTRUMENTS THAT I _ ‘WE RENTED.FABULOUS CONCERT.NO RECORD OF,IT.STAGEHANDS...FOR EVERYTHING.IF YOU PUT UP A RECORDER,THEY GOT TO PUT IT UP;YOU CAN'T BRING INSTRUMENTS IN.YOU CAN'T TAKE THEM.THE STAGEHANDS... JH:ALL THIS UNION JIVE. A SR:THEY HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING.WE COULDN'T BELIEVE IT. PH:BELIEVE IT. JH:YEAH.REGULATIONS. SR:THEY CAME UP AND TOOK THE RECORDERS.YOU COULDN'T SEE THEM(THE RECORDERS),REALLY.THEY CAME ON THE STAGE WITH THE PERFORMERS. JH:AND JUST TOOK IT ALL DOWN? SR:SO WE BEEN THROUGH SOME REMARKABLE INCIDENTS....STILL STANDING.BUT,KNOWING THE CREATOR...HE NOT GOING TO DO THAT TOO MUCH LONGER.IN MEXICO,EVERY SUNDAY THEY HAVE.MUSICIANS FROM DIFFERNT PARTS OF MEXICO,DIFFERENT TRIBES BE ON THAT PROGRAM ALL DAY LONG.THIS WAY PEOPLE GET A CHANCE TO HEAR WHAT MUSICIANS ARE DOING.WE NEED A STATION LIKE THAT IN AMERICA WHERE THERE BE MUSIC-MUSICIANS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY PLAYING.WE DON'T HAVE IT.COUNTRY MUSIC.THAT SELLS. JH:YEAH.IT WOULD JUST BE NICE IF YOU HAD THE FACILITIES FOR ALL THESE NEW INSTRUMENTS THAT COME OUT.I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOU BE ABLE TO PLAY THOSE,YOU KNOW.SYNCLAVIER,ALL THESE COMPUTER INSTRUMENTS THAT YOU CAN REPRODUCE...INSTRUMENTS.YOU KNOW,LIKE...EVERYTHING. ORCHESTRA BELLS TO SAXOPHONES TO PUT IN YOUR OWN SOUNDS.YOU CAN TALK INTO IT AND PLAY YOUR VOICE BACK. SR:I GOT THAT.I PLAYED ON A SUPREME INSTRUMENT,ONE HUNDRED THOU- SAND DOLLARS,IN ATLANTA.IT'S NOT ON THE MARKET.I JUST DIDN'T RE- LEASE IT. JH:YOU GOT A TAPE OF THAT? SR:(INDICATES YES) JH:GREAT,GREAT.AT LEAST IT'S THERE. SR:GOT DRUMS,BASS,EVERYTHING. JH:ON THAT INSTRUMENT? SR:WELL,THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT...THEY SAID THEY MADE IT FOR RICH PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES.PEOPLE WHO REALLY DIDN'T KNOW MUCH MUSIC BUT THEY COULD PLAY IT THERE.AND THAT'S WHAT THAT INSTRUMENT WAS. BUT THEY HAVEN'T PUT IT OUT ON THE MARKET.WELL,THEY MIGHT HAVE BUT IT'S FOR RICH PEOPLE.THEY SAID THAT'S WHAT IT UNINTELLIGIBLE. 10 UNINTELLIGIBLE A POOR PERSON.A MUSICIAN COULDN'T AFFORD TO PAY 1 ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR AN INSTRUMENT. JH:THAT'S FOR SURE. SR:I PLAYED ON THAT...IN MILANO. JH:THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HEAR WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY IF IT WAS AT YOUR FINGERTIPS. SR:I GOT IT.IN FACT I GOT SOME FILM.I WAS DRIVING A STREETCAR IN ATLANTA...IN THIS FILM...HAD MY NAME ON THE FRONT OF THE STREETCAR WHEN I WAS DRIVING.I HAVE THE FILM.GOT ALL KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU'D BE AMAZED...GOT ME WALKING ON THE STREETS... V PYRAMID.EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT GAVE ME PERMISSION.THEY NEVER HAVE 5 DONE IT BEFORE NOR SINCE.THEY ONLY LET YOU APPROACH THE SPHINX. I YOU CAN STAND THERE AND LOOK AT IT.YOU DON'T GO OVER THERE UNIN- TELLIGIBLE.UNINTELLIGIBLE START WALKING ON IT.SITTING ON IT. THERE WAS SOME GERMAN THERE(HARTMUT GEERKEN).THEY WOULDN'T EVEN LET HIM TAKE MOVIES OF US. JH:AND YOU WENT IN THE GREAT PYRAMID.DIDN'T YOU DO THAT,TOO? SR:DID THAT,TOO.GOT...GOT MOVIES OF IT. JH:YOU HAVE MOVIES...DID YOU STAY IN THERE FOR A WHILE? SR:I STAYED IN THERE ABOUT AN HOUR.'CAUSE ALL THE LIGHTS WENT OUT.WHEN I SAID MY NAME NINE TIMES ALL THE LIGHTS WENT OUT SO YOU COULDN'T COME IN IT.WAITING FOR THE LIGHTS TO COME BACK ON.WE HAD A GUIDE WITH US. JH:THAT MUST HAVE BEEN SOMETHING. SR:IT wAS.I SAID RA NINE TIMES.I SAID THIS UNINTELLIGIBLE FOR RA. THAT NAME HASN'T BEEN SAID IN A LONG TIME.LET'S STAY AND SEE wHAT HAPPENS.OUT wENT THE LIGHTS.UNINTELLIGIBLE.RA MEANS DARKNESS IN SOME KIND OP wAY.THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.DARKNESS.IT FITS.'CAUSE IN ITALY TODAY BLACK IS SAID,LIKE,NERA.IT'S N-E-R-A.NOT NEGRO. FIRST DAY(IN ITALY)...SEE THE BLAcK,SEE NERA UP THERE.MEANS BLAcK.NERO,TOO.HE'S BLAcK....HE wAS ROMAN.THE ROMAN LANGUAGE... IT PITs,YOU KNOw.PRENcH(g9RD POR)BLAcK IS SOMETHING LIKE Nj9—I-R. BUT IT'S LIKE THE BIBLE SAID...IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND UNINTELLIGIBLE.AND THIS SPIRIT OF GOD MOvED : UPON THE PAGE OF THE wATERS AND DARKNESS MOVED UPON THE FACE OF I THE...IT'S THE SAME THING.IT'S TELLING YOU THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS DARKNESS...AND NOT LIGHT.SATAN Is ALWAYS ASSOCIATED wITH LIGHT. GOD'S ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH DARKNESS.THEY SAY GOD DwELLS IN THICK DARKNESS.UNINTELLIGIBLE.(SUN RA IS STILL EATING HIS RIBS. HE SHOULD BE PINISHED SOON.)SO.SATAN REPRESENTS LIGHT.UNINTEL- LIGIBLE SATAN UNINTELLIGIBLE FALL FROM HEAvEN.SATAN IS THE ANGEL OF DEATH.AND PEOPLE WHO DAY SAY THEY BE FOLLOWING HIS LIGHT. .~ .« 11 UNINTELLIGIBLE FOLLOW THAT LIGHT AND YOU'LL BE OVER IN THE‘ KINGDOM OF DEATH.THAT'S SATAN.HE'S THE ANGEL OF DEATH.I FOUND THAT THE WORD ISRAEL MEANS SOMETHING LIKE DEATH.IT WOULD HAVE TO. THE WORD ISRAEL MEANS SOMETHING LIKE MESSAGERS OF DEATH OR SOME- THING LIKE THAT.I GOT THE BOOK.BUT IT SAYS ISRAEL MEANS ANGEL OF DEATH.SO...THE WORLD GOT TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THESE WORDS... UNINTELLIGIBLE THE BOOK AND SEE WHAT ISRAEL IS.THEY GOT THE NAME OF GOD.THEY GOT TO GET BUSY QUICK'CAUSE IT'S DANGEROUS.THEY GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT...THEY GOT GOD SAYING I...I AM IN THE MIDST OF ISRAEL...(TAPE RUNS OUT)... TO BE CONTINUED IN ISSUE EIGHTEEN OF SUN RA RESEARCH. 12 v<-us»... -.... ,. FROM THE PROFILES OF INTERNATIONAL DRUMMERS , PERCUSSIONI STS AND MUSICIANS MAGAZINE . . . PAI STE CYMBALS AND GONGS COMPANY . . . 1975 . I was born in Rockaway Beach, N.Y. When I was very young, I met Lee Morgan, Bobby Timmons, Spanky Peberest, Henry Grimes, Eddie Mathias, Jimy Bond, .and many others. We used to get together and play ses- sions, gigs before everyone became famous. It was Jimmy Bond who got me into my first professional gig, with the Chet Baker band. My second gig was with Lester Young, after that I was with Gary Crosby's sol- dier show. In 1963, while in Paris, I got a chance to play with Bud Powell; that led to play- ing with Lou Benett, the or- ganist and with Stuart Da- Silva, the pianist. At present I'm a member of the "SUN RA ARKESTRA"; on the side I also play with the "Jim Johnson Unit". I am attending the Granoff School of Music, to further my musical knowledge. I would very much like to write and arrange. DISCOGRAPHY: -IT'S AFTER THE END OF THE WORLD, LIVE AT THE DONAU- ESCHINGEN & BERLIN FESTIVALS Sun Ra & his Intergalactic Research Arkestra (MP5) -THE SOLAR - MYTH APPROACH, VOL. 1 & 2 Sun Ra & his Arkestra (BYG) -ANN ARBOR BLUES & JAZZ FESTIVAL '72 Sun Ra & his Solar-Myth Arkestra (Atlantic) -MILESTONE TWOFERS Yusef Lateef Quintet (Bellaphon) -NIGHTS OF BALLADS & BLUES McCoy Tyner Trio (Impulse) -JAZZ 'ROUND THE WORLD Yusef Lateef Quintet (Impulse) Humphries Ill. -WHILE WE'RE YOUNG Wes Montgomery (Milestone) -THE MANY FACES OF YUSEF LATEEF Yusef Lateef (Milestone) -PREZ IN EUROPE Lester Young Quartet (Onyx) ‘BLUES FOR THE ORIENT Yusef Lateef Quartet (Prestige) -JUNIOR Junior Mance Trio (Verve) -SPACE IS THE PLACE Sun Ra Arkestra (Blue Thumb) -FUEGO ' Donald Byrd (Blue Note) -BYRD IN FLIGHT Donald Byrd (Blue Note) -DONALD BYRD AT THE HALF NOTE CAFE, VOL. 1 a 2 (Blue Note) -A NEW PERSPECTIVE Donald Byrd (Blue Note) CYMBALSET: A 14“ Heavy H-H, F0 602 B 18" Crash, 2002 C 20" Medium Ride, F0 602 EXTRAS: 20" Ride, 2002 JOHN GILMORE . . . NOVEMBER 1978 ZELLERBACH AUDITORIUM BERKELEY , CALI FORNIA . MORE THOUGHTS FROM VARIOUS MUSICIANS REGARDING SUN RA . . . . . . . . . .. FOURTH IN AN ONGOING SERIES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. BILL BERRY...TRUMPET...VIBRAPHONE,,.COMPOSER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH LEONARD FEATHER... SUN RA ARKESTRA...THE HOUSE OF ETERNAL BEING(LIVE AT MONTREUX- INNER CITY) WAS THAT RECORDED NEAR A ZOO UNTILL THE TAPE BROKE DOWN?I HEARD THE ELEPHANTS ESCAPING.I WON'T GIVE IT A MINUS RATING,SO I WON'T RATE IT AT ALL. I'D BE CURIOUS HOW YOU'D COPYRIGHT SOMETHING LIKE THAT,BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MELODY.IT WAS OBVIOUSLY IMPROVISED,BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS JAZZ MUSIC BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE THE FEELING THAT DIFFE- RENTIATES JAZZ FROM OTHER MUSIC-IN FACT,I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE THAT IT WAS MUSIC AT ALL.TO ME THAT'S EXHIBITIONISM AT ITS VERY WORST.THE SAXOPHONE PLAYER IS PROBABLY A POLL WINNER,BUT SOUNDED LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD KIDS USED TO WHEN THEY WERE BEGINNING. I DON'T MEAN TO BE OVERLY HARD ON IT,BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S MUSIC}IT JUST SOUNDED LIKE NOISE,SOUND EFFECTS.I HEARD THE AUD- IENCE REACTION,THEY MUST HAVE LIKED IT.MAYBE THERE WAS SOMETHING VISUAL GOING ON.BUT TO GET UP AND JUST MAKE SOUNDS,WHERE ANYTHING GOES,I DON'T THINK THAT COULD BE DEFINED AS MUSIC. MAYBE IF YOU WERE THERE,IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT,BUT FROM THE RE- CORDING,IT SOUNDED LIKE PEOPLE FOOLING AROUND ON INSTRUMENTS NOT NECESSARILY THEIR OWN.AT FIRST I THOUGHT THE TRUMPET PLAYER HAD SOME PRETTY GOOD CHOPS-WELL,HE DID HAVE—I JUST DIDN'T LIKE IT. DOWN BEAT...NOVEMBER 1980.PAGE 49 JAKI BYARD...PIANIST...COMPOSER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH FRED BOUCHARD... SUN RA ARKESTRA...GOD OF THE THUNDER REALM(LIVE AT MONTREAUX— INNER CITY) IT'S EITHER SUN RA OR CECIL TAYLOR;PLAY THAT PERCUSSION THING AGAIN.OR SUNNY MURRAY.THAT'S SUN RA ON ORGAN AND JOHN GILMORE ON TENOR.IT'S AN EXPRESSION OF ENERGETIC FORCE.IT REACHES A PEAK OF REAL INTENSITY,AND IT'S GOOD.BUT USUALLY THEY STOP,AND START AGAIN TO TRY TO REACH THAT PEAK.THEY CAN HIT IT TWO OR THREE TIMES,BUT THEN IT LOSES ITS MUSICAL MEANING,IT DOESN'T HAVE EMO- TIONAL IMPACT. DOWN BEAT...MAY 1981.PAGE 45 TOSHIKO AKIYOSHI...PIANIST...COMPOSER...BANDLEADER... BLINDFOLD TEST WITH LEONARD FEATHER... SUN RA ARKESTRA...QUEER NOTIONS(SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS- HAT HUT) YOU SAID THREE MINUTES.IS IT REALLY THREE MINUTES?SOUNDED LONGER THAN THAT.I THINK IT'S A PUT ON.IF IT'S NOT-WHICH I REALLY,SIN- CERELY DOUBT-WHAT CAN I SAY?I DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT KIND OF SENSE OF HUMOR.I THINK IN ORDER TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT,THE PERSON COME UP WITH THAT KIND OF IDEA,IT HAS TO BE REALLY,REALLY ABOVE EVERYBODY.AND SINCE IT'S NOT,IT'S GOT TO BE A JOKE. IF IT'S NOT A PUT ON,I DON'T EVEN GIVE ANY STARS.I CAN'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY DOING THIS SERIOUSLY.IF IT IS SERIOUS,I JUST CAN'T COMPREHEND THAT KIND OF MUSICAL AT- TITUDE. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE A LITTLE SHORT SOLO POPPED UP;THE ALTO PLAYER,TO ME,SOUNDED LIKE AN AMATEUR.BUT THERE'S A LOT OF MOD- ERN YOUNG PLAYERS THAT SOUND LIKE THAT TODAY. DOWN BEAT...NOVEMBER l982.PAGE49 (THE FEBRUARY 1983 EDITION CARRIED A LETTER FROM MIKE STEPHENS FROM LOS ANGELES COMMENTING ON TOSHIKO AKIYOSHI'S COMMENTS RE RA. "...AND MS.AKIYOSHI'S"CRITICISM"OF THE SUN RA HAT HUT RECORDING IS MORE OF A JOKE THAN THE RECORD ITSELF COULD EVER BE.TOSHIKO WOULD DO WELL TO TONE DOWN HER CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE TOWARD OTHER ARTISTS AND BRUSH UP ON HER OWN LISTENING SKILLS AND MUS-‘ ICIANSHIP.WINNING MUSIC POLLS DOES NOT AN EXPERT MAKE." BYARD LANCASTER...SAXOPHONIST... SUN RA HAS AN IMPACT ON THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE.ROCK,CLASSICAL,MOVIE MUSIC,JAZZ,AVANTE-GARDE AND DISCO.HE IS THE GODFATHER OF OUR TRIBE.OUR CITY HAS BECOME MORE AWARE OF UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE.WHAT A GREAT,GREAT TEACHER.HIS LIFESTYLE,BAND,PHILOSOPHY AND BROTHER- HOOD HAVE BECOME AS IMPORTANT TO US AS GANDI TO HIS PEOPLE.THE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE SEEN HIM ON LOCAL TV,NATIONAL TV,IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM,ON THE STREETS AND HAVE HEARD HIM RAP AT HIS HOME,IN THE PARKS,AND ON THE RADIO.WE HAVE BEEN CHANGED BECAUSE OF HIM.THANK YOU,FATHER.SUNNY IS DEDICATED TO THE SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH.MAY GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS HIM.THE REPUTATION OF SUN RA GIVES LIGHT TO THOSE OF US LOCKED UP AND NATURAL ENERGY TO HIS STUDENTS SUCH AS MYSELF.I HAVE PLAYED WITH HIS ARKESTRA,LISTENED TO HIM TALK FOR HOURS,AND WATCHED HOW HE GIVES TO OUR COMMUNITY.A MESSENGER OF GOD ALLAH. A CODA...FEBRUARY 1984.PAGE 4. ‘ON! .3 .o‘.. 4 '9' '. ‘S O 4 I CITIZENSHIP. woRLD NEws. THAT'S ALL I HAVE To Do. A LEAVE HERE, <AT<H A PLANE, A AND GO TO RUSSIA, AND TELL THEM I WANT TO CHANGE MY EMBARRASS AMERICA AND I HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER TH EM AND TH EY’D TAKE CARE or ME BE<AusE THEYGOT THIS % SYSTEM wHERE TH EY Do HAVE AcuLTuRE DEPARTMENT THAT TAKE <ARE or Mus|<|ANs. AND I'M coma To HAVE NoTH|Nc. TO WORRY ABOUT. I'D HAVE AN ARKESTRA THERE AND ALL or THEM DED|<ATED To Music. suN RA IT wouLD BE A IT wouLD
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-17
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 18 (August, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-08-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: '3" I '\L‘\‘ 7 [I417 V / K 1 ’ \ .2 r . \ ‘ _ ,, ~ _, K / K _ ‘ ( y \ . / . . , , E‘ - . _ - J ' \ V r ‘ . . , . ~ _ ‘_ _ \ U ~ , L - ‘ \ ~ _ Y. \ A A . .. V ‘ \ / _. ~ I v \ . . ~ :_ ’ y _ ‘ ' ~ , . , r , x 4 ‘ V; \ ‘ ,: r l 7' ’ 1 ’. J \ * . I \v\ / _ *' A V Vrr . > _ V / , » r ‘ V 1 L I, . , . « , ‘ \‘ / .’ _ . , ,> . - ,\ ’ ‘ \ . L \ I V sun RA IiE¢sEAn¢H PUBLISHED av omm rnEss -9.0. §O'X‘.7;B'6~..‘M,|L'I§F.R.‘E:. 94030 @ 1998 oMNi PRESS. EDITED av PETER HINDS. SINGLE cow: $4.oo;OVE'|§5‘E;A*S'; §ilﬁr.‘tE cow $5.00. 1 x 4 K CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS... . . . . . . . .... PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL...BERKELEY,CALIFORNIA..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 20,l984............ . . . . ... . . . . . . ........ SUN RA:THE BIBLE GOT GOD SAYING I HAVE TO KILL MY PEOPLE.I HAVE TO DRUG MY PEOPLE AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE AS BIG...EVERYBODY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.SO THEN THEY HAV...
Show more'3" I '\L‘\‘ 7 [I417 V / K 1 ’ \ .2 r . \ ‘ _ ,, ~ _, K / K _ ‘ ( y \ . / . . , , E‘ - . _ - J ' \ V r ‘ . . , . ~ _ ‘_ _ \ U ~ , L - ‘ \ ~ _ Y. \ A A . .. V ‘ \ / _. ~ I v \ . . ~ :_ ’ y _ ‘ ' ~ , . , r , x 4 ‘ V; \ ‘ ,: r l 7' ’ 1 ’. J \ * . I \v\ / _ *' A V Vrr . > _ V / , » r ‘ V 1 L I, . , . « , ‘ \‘ / .’ _ . , ,> . - ,\ ’ ‘ \ . L \ I V sun RA IiE¢sEAn¢H PUBLISHED av omm rnEss -9.0. §O'X‘.7;B'6~..‘M,|L'I§F.R.‘E:. 94030 @ 1998 oMNi PRESS. EDITED av PETER HINDS. SINGLE cow: $4.oo;OVE'|§5‘E;A*S'; §ilﬁr.‘tE cow $5.00. 1 x 4 K CONVERSATION WITH SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS... . . . . . . . .... PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL...BERKELEY,CALIFORNIA..... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... THE AFTERNOON OF OCTOBER 20,l984............ . . . . ... . . . . . . ........ SUN RA:THE BIBLE GOT GOD SAYING I HAVE TO KILL MY PEOPLE.I HAVE TO DRUG MY PEOPLE AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE AS BIG...EVERYBODY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.SO THEN THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND KILL SOME- BODY.THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND DRUG SOMEBODY...THEY SAY I'M A JEALOUS GOD,THEY HAVE TO BE.JEALOUS TO EACH OTHER.THAT'S AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD.BUT SINCE THEY DON'T READ THE BOOK...THEY WANT TO BE LIKE GOD AND YET THE BOOK IS SAYING IF YOU TRY TO BE LIKE GOD YOU'LL BE KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN....AND THEY STILL WANT TO BE LIKE GOD.THEY GET CONSTANTLY KICKED OUT BECAUSE THAT IS THE FOR- BIDDEN FACTOR:TRYING TO BE LIKE GOD. P JOHN HIND§:SO HOW SHOULD THEY BE LIKE?NOT BE RIGHTEOUS? SR:WELL.THE BIBLE SAY NOBODY RIGHTEOUS.THAT NONE IS RIGHTEOUS... A BLACK PERSON...I MEAN,THE ONLY PEOLPE THAT GOT THE RIGHT TO CALL THEMSELVES BLACK ARE THE EGYPTIANS.'CAUSE THEY THE CHILDREN OF HAM AND HAM IS BLACK.WELL.YOU GOT SOME MORE BLACK FOLKS WITH STRAIGHT HAIR WHO IS A DIFFERENT...ORDER,YOU MIGHT SAY.LIKE INDIA.THEY GOT STRAIGHT HAIR.ONLY ONE MAN GOT NAPPY HAIR.THEY SET APART FROM THE OTHER NATIONS.THEIR HAIR BETRAYED THEM.THEY CAN'T HIDE(IT),YOU KNOW.ALL OF THEM BE STRAIGHTENING THEIR HAIR AND ALL THEY STILL GOT THAT NAPPY HAIR.SO.THEY BEEN PICKED OUT AS DIFFERENT.SO THEY CAN'T BE EQUAL TO WHITE PEOPLE WITH THAT NAPPYV HAIR.THEY HAVE THE SAME KIND OF HAIR.(CHUCKLES)THEY TRY, BUT NATURE KNOWS WHO THEY ARE.STRAIGHTEN IT IF THEY WANT.NATURE KNOWS.THAT'S THE PROBLEM:THEY HAVE TO STOP TRYING TO BE LIKE GOD. JH:AND TO BE NATURAL? SR:WELL,CHRIST DID THE WILL OF GOD.HE SHOWED HIM WHAT HE WAS. HE WENT OUT THERE AND DIED.SO;THE WILL OF GOD IS THAT YOU SHOULD DIE;..THE FATHER'S WILL.IT COMES IN ALL KIND OF FORMS.WE GOT A TRUMPET PLAYER.PLAYS AROUND HERE,HE'S GOING TO HELP ME.HIS NAME IS FRED.HE WAS SITTING IN THE ROOM ONE DAY AND HIS FATHER SAID SOMETHING LIKE,YOU OUGHT TO BE DEAD.HE DIDN'T PAY NO ATTENTION TO HIM.THE FATHER CAME OUT THERE WITH AN AXE OR SOMETHING AND HE SAID,'YOU AIN'T DEAD YET?DIE!GO ON AND DIE!'THE FATHER'S WILL. SHE WAS GETTING MARRIED SO HE HAD TO TAKE HIS FATHER AND TAKE HIM TO A MENTAL HOME.BUT HE SAID AS FAR AS I UNINTELLIGIBLE HE SAY HE NEVER...HE AIN'T GOING TO SLEEP BEHIND...LOCK HIS DOOR.HE'LL NEVER TRUST HIM AGAIN.HE SUBSEQUENTLY MOVED NEAR US.HE WAS STAY- ING AROUND THE CORNER FROM WHERE I WAS AT;HE SAY HE HAD TO LET .HIS FATHER OUTwOF THERE.FATHER SAID,'YOU AIN'T DEAD YET?!" ‘(LAUGHS)FRED GOT IN THE WIND.YOU KNOW,YOU GOT A LOT OF THINGS.I BEEN TALKING TO SOME UNINTELLIGIBLE THAT ARE INCREDIBLE.I TOLD A FELLOW ONCE ABOUT THE DANGER OF LITTLE CHILDREN AND SOME...HE SAID.'I GOT A SON.DON'T TALK LIKE THAT.ABOUT CHILDREN.'UNINTEL- LIGIBLE WE CAN'T TRUST THEM.I SAID,'WELL,YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ‘ARE NO WAY.THEY MIGHT BE YOURS.THEY BORN HERE...BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE UNTILL THEY GET OLDER OR SOMETHING.'MAYBE WHILE THEY'RE STILL YOUNG THEY MIGHT EXHIBIT SOME TRAITS THAT WILL PROVE THEY MAY NOT BE YOUR FANS UNINTELLIGIBLE CHILDREN. IT DON'T MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.HE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THAT.A WEEK LATER HE CAME TO ME,(HE SAID),'I HAVE TO SAY YOU'RE RIGHT.'HIS SON WAS ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS OLD.JUST COULD CRAWL.HE SAY HE WOKE UP AND HIS SON HAD THE BUTCHER KNIFE ACROSS HIS NECK.AND HE SAID THE BUTCHER KNIFE WAS TURNED THE WRONG WAY...HE SAY HE WASN'T GOING TO NEVER,NEVER SLEEP WITHOUT THE DOOR BEING LOCKED WITH THE UNINTELLIGIBLE ON THE OTHER SIDE. JH : THAT ifs A HEAVY . SR:OF COURSE IT IS.BUT HE.SAY HE HATED TO TELL ME ABOUT IT.THAT .I WAS RIGHT. JH:WOULDN'T THAT BE;A RUDE AWAKENING. SR:CUT IN NECK BY THE LITTLE SON.SO WHAT HAPPENED?DID SOMETHING ELSE HAVE CONTROL OF HIS SON?HAD TO...SO A PERSON COULD BE AT .HOME,ALL COMPLACENT,FORCES COME RIGHT IN THERE THROUGH DOGS, CATS.IN THIS DAY AND AGE IT'S NO TELLING.THESE SPIRITS...IN FACT,I-SAW UNINTELLIGIBLE SAY THAT A LOT OF ANIMALS WERE ATTACK- ING PEOPLE.AGAIN,WHEN IT HAPPENS ABOUT DEMONS THROUGH(ANIMALS) ATTACK PEOPLE.I DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE.I READ THE HEADLINES.I BELIEVE IT.I HAD TO GET RID OF THE DOG RIGHT HERE. ' JH:OH,REALLY?YOU HAD A LITTLE DOG?R SR:IT WOULD BE AT THE HOUSE UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT GOT VERY MAD'CAUSE SHE HAD TO STAY OUTSIDE.SHE WANTED TO STAY IN THE HOUSE WITH US. SHE STARTED TO ACTING FUNNY.BIT A HOLE IN THE DOOR.THE BACK DOOR. AND YOU'D COME UP THE STEPS TO THE KITCHEN,THERE'S A DOOR THERE, SHE BIT A HOLE IN THAT.ACTUALLY,YOU KNOW IT WAS UNINTELLIGIBLE. SHE CHEWED AND CHEWED...WE NOT AT THE HOUSE.WE COME UP THERE AND SHE IN THE...LIVING ROOM.UNINTELLIGIBLE SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS HU- MAN.SO I GOT RID OF HER.IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE MUSIC,REALLY RAISE HERACONSCIOUSNESS. JH:MAYBE so. SR:SHE MIGHT HAVE LISTENED TO THE MUSIC. JH:DOGS ALWAYS wANT To BE AROUND HUMANS.ANYWAY.THEY JUST LovE ' 0 o SR:SO I SAID,'SHE GOT TO GO.‘ JH:YEAH,THEY CAN'T ALL JUST RUN AROUND ALL.OVER THE PLACE.THEY HAVE To REALIZE(THEY)GOT A PRETTY GOOD DEAL IN THE BACK YARD IN A LITTLE EoUsE. ‘ ‘ ISR:WE GAVE HER TO A WOMAN UP THE STREET.SHE'S PERFECTLY AWARE THAT SHE DID WRONG.EVERYTIME SHE SEE ONE OF US SHE PUT HER TAIL BETWEEN HER LEGS..,INTELLIGENT. JH:BUT DOGS...THEY'RE NIcE.THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL THINGS,I THINK.I REALLY ENJOY MY DOGS. A SR:YEAH.NICE DOG.SOMEBODY po1soNED IT...DANNY(THOMPSON)WAS so ‘PROUD OF THAT DOG.I SAY,'DANNY...',IT LOOK LIKE A BELGIUM SHEP- HERD;DANNY WAS SO PROUD.I SAID,'DANNY,YOU KNOW YOU SHOULDN'T DO THAT.FORCES GET JEALOUS.YOU KNOW.’ 7 . JR:1MAc1NE:TEAT.po1soN1Nc A Doc. SR:SOMEBODY POISONED IT.TOOK HIM TO THE VETERINARIAN.THEY TOOK HIM AND I CAME THERE;..AND THE POISON...IN SOME KIND OF«WAY HE ISTILL LIVED.THROUGH ALL THAT,ONE DAY I TOLD DANNY,'YOU KNOW,HE'S STILL SUFFERING.SO HE'S TRYING TO STAY ALIVE(TO)PROTECT ME.I CAN'T REALLY HAVE HIM SUFFERING LIKE THAT.I KNOW HE IS,SO,..TO- NIGHT.TAKE HIM AND PUT HIM OUT IN THE TRUCK.'SO HE PUT HIM OUT IN THE TRUCK..;HE DIED STANDING UP.HE REFUSED TO LAY DOWN.DIED STANDING UP.AND MARSHALL'S DOG,HEfS STILL UNINTELLIGIBLE HISS DEATH.AND WE HAD A TRUCK,STATION WAGON AND A CAR.ALL THE BATTER-_ IES WENT DEAD.ALL OF THEM UNINTELLIGIBLE.YOU SEE.IT'S SOMETHING TO THAT.IF THE BATTERIES WENT OUT.NOW,WHY DID THE BATTERIES GO_ ' OUT?HE WAS STANDING UP.FROZEN IN DEATH.WOULDN'T LAY DWN-. JH:WOULDN'T GIVE IN To THAT. SR:THAT WAS A MEAN DOG.BUT HE LOVED US. SUN RA:THIS(UNITED STATES)IS A SPIRITUAL KINGDOM.IT WAS SET UP BY MEN WHO KNEW THINGS.BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND ALL THEM PEOPLE KNEW THINGS AND THEY SET IT UP ON A SPIRITUAL LEVEL BASED ON EGYPT.A BLACK MAN DESIGNED WASHINGTON DC.THE WHITE HOUSE UNIN- TELLIGIBLE.LYNDON BANNEKKER.(BENJAMIN BANNEKER WAS ONE OF THE TWO AMERICAN ENGINEERS WHO WORKED WITH THE FRENCH ENGINEER, PIERRE CHARLES L'ENFANT IN PLANNING THE LAYOUT OF WASHINGTON DC.) HE SET IT UP SOMETHING LIKE,ALMOST LIKE A PARALLEL TO EGYPT... UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT WAS A PLACE THERE WHERE WE PLAYED WHERE THEY USED TO KEEP HORSES AND PEOPLE.THE SLAVES OR WHATEVER THEY WAS STAYED UPSTAIRS UNINTELLIGIBLE.I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF IT. WE PLAYED THERE.WE PLAYING AGAIN IN WASHINGTON THIS MONTH.THE TWENTY EIGHTH.AT DC SPACE.THAT'S THE NAME OF THE PLACE.DC SPACE. YOU KNOW,IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO GO TO WASHINGTON DC.FOR THREE YEARS I COULDN'T GO THERE. JH:WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THAT? SR:EVERY TIME,WELL,THEY BE BOOKING ME THERE AND ALL AT ONCE,TWO OR THREE DAYS BEFORE WE SUPPOSED TO BE(PLAYING),THEY CANCELLED. THEY KEPT ON DOING THAT.AROUND WATERGATE TIME(1976).S0,0NE NIGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY AT WATERGATE.SO,I WENT TO A PSYCHIC.I ASKED HER WHY?SHE SAID THAT GOD DID IT.HE CANCELLED ALL THOSE PERFORMANCES FOR MY PROTECTION.IT WASN'T GOOD FOR ME TO GO THERE AT THOSE TIMES SO HE CANCELLED ALL OF THEM.UNINTELLIGIBLE.SO THAT YOU'LL(SUN RA)BE ABLE TO GO THERE ONE DAY.I FINALLY WENT THERE. ONE DAY I WENT THERE IN SO MUCH PAIN IT WAS INCREDIBLE.MY FOOT SWOLE UP.I COULDN'T WALK ON IT.I COULDN'T PUT ON A SHOE.I GOT TO WASHINGTON DC MY FOOT SWOLE UP.FOR NO APPARENT REASON.I MET ANO- THER BLACK WOMAN THERE AND(SHE)SAY HER FOOT SWOLE UP,TOO.SHE WAS THERE BUT HERS WENT DOWN WHEN SHE CAME TO HEAR US.SHE SAID SHE CAME ANYWAY.AND HERS...SHE WAS LOOKING AT MY FOOT.HER FOOT WENT DOWN BUT I WENT ON AND PERFORMED.I HAD TO UNINTELLIGIBLE.A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW THAT.THAT MY FOOT WAS REALLY PAIN PAIN... UNINTELLIGIBLE.IT WAS LIKE IT WAS UNNATURAL.I DON'T KNOW... JH:GOT INFECTED OR SOMETHING AND JUST ACHED AND JUST SWELLED? SR:wELL,IT wAS SwOLLEN AND BY BEING swOLLEN LIKE THAT IT wAS... THE SKIN wAS ALMOST ABOUT TO BURST AND THAT HURTS,YOU KNOW? THAT'S THE wAY IT wAS.wASHINGTON Dc.THAT'S AROUND THE SAME TIME, THINx,MARSHALL(ALLEN)GOT HIS HORN sTOLEN.MAYBE AROUND THEN. wE GO THERE ABOUT EVERY YEAR,EvERY Two YEARS,YOU KNOW.WE PLAY BALTIMORE AND THEY RIGHT THERE wHEN wE PLAY wAsHINGTON DC.I DON'T KNOW.THESE THINGS HAPPEN. JH:I HOPE JAPAN'S A REAL GOOD THING wHEN YOU GO THERE.I HOPE THAT REALLY...I'M SURE IT wILL_sINcE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE. Sun Ra at District Curators Cosmic Costume Ball is Washington DC October 1984.Photo By Michael \vli1derman.Jazz ’rimes.Dec 1984. T THERE MUST BE SOME EXPECTATIONS,YOU KNOW.A FRESH THING... SR:I MIGHT NOT Go'cAUsE THEY WANT ME TO USE A JAPANESE IN THE BAND. 7 I A JH:OH.REALLY? SR:THAT'S THE STIPULATION.THEY BOOKED ME THERE UNINTELLIGIBLE.’ JH:USE ALL JAPANESE MUSICIANS? SR:AT LEAST ONE. JH:AT LEAST ONE.YOU MEAN THE...ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE MUSIC- IANS.UNION? * A ’ SR:NO.THIS SUPPOSED TO BE A CONGLOMERATION OF BIG CORPORATIONS. THIS PARTICULAR THING AND NO HAS BEEN BOOKED THERE BY THEM.THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE.THE GIRL WHO'S IN CHARGE IS A MILLIONAIRE.A JAPANESE.SHE SAID...ON THE OTHER HAND...EUROPE IS BOOKING US STHERE BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE GIANT CORPORATION OVER THERE.' THAT'S ANOTHER BOOKING AGENCY.SO,YOU SEE,I GOT TWO CHOICES. JH:HOW no YOU GET BOOKED oN THESE THINGS?DO YOU HAVE A WILLARD ALEXANDER KIND DEAL GOING oN on no PEOPLE JUST..? SR:NO AMERICAN BOOKING AGENT BOOKS ME.I GOT ONE OF THE BEST FRENCH...I GOT TWO FRENCH MEN THAT BOOKS ME AND A GERMAN WOMAN. I'M MAD AT HER RIGHT NOW.SHE AIN'T GOT HERSELF TOGETHER.SOMETIME SHE NEGLECTS THINGS.AND EVERYBODY SAID(THAT)ABOUT HER.THAT SHE... JH:PICKING YOU UP KIND OF THINGS.STUFF LIKE THAT.GETTING ACCOM- ODATIONS PROPER; . , SR:WELL,LIKE,WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY IN AUSTRIA.SHE DIDN'T HAVE WHO YOU GET IN CONTACT WITH OR NOTHING OR WHAT TIME DO WE START OR WHERE.AND SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.‘ A ‘ JH:NO ITINERARY. SR:SHE HAD THE ITINERARY BUT SHE LEFT AUSTRIA OUT.NOW SHE CALLED ME AT THE LAST MINUTE TELLING ME ABOUT AUSTRIA AND WE WERE ALL- READY BOOKED IN CHICAGO.SO IT WAS DIFFICULT,YOU KNOW.THE NEXT DAY IN CHICAGO.WE COULDN'T TAKE THE CHANCE 'CAUSE OF THE TIME DIFFERENCES.THEY AHEAD OVER THERE.SO...WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LATEI TO CHICAGO.SO I HAD TO JUST DON'T SHOW.I KEPT ON TELLING HER I CAN'T MAKE IT.SHE KEPT ON TRYING(TO)MAKE US MAKE IT BY HAVING OUR TICKETS IN AUSTRIA FOR US TO PICK UP TO COME BACK HERE. SEE.IF WE HAD TO COME AND GET THE TICKETS IN ORDER TO GET BACK HERE SO I JUST TOLD DANNY TO SEND HER THE MONEY.WHICH HE DID.HE HAS SOME MONEY...FROM ENGLAND.UNFORTUNATE.HE SENT FOR US.AND WE CAME BACK.WE MISSED FOUR DATES IN GERMANY AND ONE IN AUSTRIA.THE WHOLE WEEK WAS BOOKED,YOU KNOW.BUT I COULDN'T TAKE NO CHANCES.I SAID,'CAUSE,YOU KNOW,SOMETHING MIGHT COME UP WHERE THE PLANES BE LATE AND STUFF.SO WE GOT IN THE PLANE.(TO)COME TO THE UNITED STATES(AND)IT WENT TO FRANKFURT.IT WENT THE OPPOSITE WAY.LIKE SOMEONE JUST SAID YOU GOING TO GERMANY.(LAUGHS)WE WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY IN GERMANY,IT TOOK US TO GERMANY.AND THEN IT CAME TO THE UNITED STATES.IT WAS INCREDIBLE,YOU KNOW.THE PLANE WAS SUPPOSED TO COME IN,LIKE,12:2O FROM FRANKFURT.AT 12:20 THE PLANE LEFT FOR FRANKFURT INSTEAD.(LAUGHS)WE'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS.IT IS INCREDIBLE.ONE TIME IN FRANKFURT OR ONE OF THOSE GERMAN PLACES THEY GOT...THEY HAD US GET OFF THE PLANE FIRST AND TOOK EVERY- THING OUT OF THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT SAYING THAT SOM MEN HAD UNINTELLIGIBLE FROM ANOTHER PART OF GERMANY WITH BAGGAGE OR FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.UNINTELLIGIBLE FROM AUSTRIA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.THEY HAD THESE BAGS ON THERE.NOW,THEY DIDN'T REPORT TO GET BACK ON THE PLANE SO THEY(THE AUTHORITIES)FIGURED MAYBE IT MIGHT BE A BOME.THE BOME SQUAD CAME OUT AND THEY TOOK SOMETHING OFF DOWN UNINTELLIGIBLE.BUT THEY TOOK US OFF THERE FIRST.FEELING THATI MAYBE IT WAS SET FOR US.I DON'T KNOW.BUT WE WERE THE FIRST ONE TO GET OFF THAT UNINTELLIGIBLE.THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO US IN FRANKFURT.IT WAS FRANKFURT.WELL,FRANKFURT HAS A WAY OF ALSO MESSING UP INSTRUMENTS OF AMERICAN MUSICIANS.THEY PUT IT ON THE CONVEYOR BELT ANY KIND OF WAY COMING OUT UNINTELLIGIBLE.A LOT OF MUSICIANS HAVE HAD THERE INSTRUMENTS MESSED UP IN FRANKFURT.SO THEY DON'T LIKE AMERICANS OVER THERE UNINTELLIGIBLE;AMERICAN T MUSICIANS COME THROUGH THERE THEY GET THEIR VENGEANCE.THEY PUT IT . ON THE CONVEYOR BELT SO IT WOULD FALL.BAM! A JH:FALL OFF AND JUST...FALL TEN FEET,TWENTY FEET.WHATEVER IT IS. YEAH,THEY THROW THEM AROUND.I'VE HEARD OF THAT STORY. PETER HINDS:DANNY(THOMPSON)WAS SAYING HE CARRIES HIS ALTO(ON THE PLANE). A JH:DOES HE KEEP THAT RIGHT THERE? PI-I:YEAl-I. SR:HE'S(HAVING)GREAT PROBLEM TAKING THAT ALTO.THE FELLAS EVEN TOLD ME I COULDN'T EVEN TAKE MY YAMAHA THING ON THERE.(THEY)SAY IT WON'T FIT.I SAID,YES IT WILL.(THEY SAY)NO.I SAID,I BEEN ON THE PLANE BEFORE.SO I HAD TO INSIST.I BROUGHT IT ON THERE. SUN RA:I BE GETTING THESE MESSAGES AND THINGS;LIKE,I SAW THIS- PAPER MADE OUT TO LUCIFER AND...SOMETIME AGO I HAD THIS DREAM OR VISION,I CAN SEE IT NOW.LIKE,IT'S A BIG FORTRESS.LOOK LIKE IT HAD LOGS ALL AROUND BUT IT WAS A BIG...IT WAS HUGE AND YOU TO GIVE THE PASSWORD TO GET IN THERE.IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE PASSWORD.YOU COULDN'T GET IN.AND THERE WAS DANGER ON THE OUT- SIDE.YOU DIDN'T SEE NOTHING BUT YOU STILL BE BETTER(OEF)GOING IN THAT FORTRESS.SO,I CAME UP THERE AND I SAID SOMETHING THAT... HAD THE PASSWORD.I DON'T REMEMBER UNINTELLIGIBLE PASSWORD(AND I) WENT ON THERE AND I REMEMBER THAT.THAT THE PASSWORD GOT ME UN- INTELLIGIBLE SAFELY.THAT'S A VIVID MEMORY THAT I HAVE OF THINGS. JH:THAT'S A VERY STRONG DREAM THERE.THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR? SR:I'LL TAKE IT.I'LL TAKE IT AND USE IT NOW.THAT'S ALL.GO OUT AND... THE HARDEST THING IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT GOING OUT AND HELPING PEOPLE SINCE SOME OF THEM HAVE TREATED ME SO BAD.BUT. THERE ARE A LOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT GOT A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW.AS TO WHETHER IT'S RIGHT TO GO OUT AND PEOPLE UNDEVE- LOPED.ONES WHO WOULD EVENTUALLY YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO HELP NO WAY 'CAUSE THEY NOT ACCEPTED.THEY GOT TO BE ACCEPTED BY ALL THOSE FORCES THAT YOU HAVE.WELL,UNINTELLIGIBLE IS ALL RIGHT.AND EVERY THING WILL WORK LIKE A MAN BECOMING A BILLIONAIRE.SOME FOLKS SAY YEAH,HE'S ALLRIGHT.THE BILLIONAIRE.MAKE ME A MILLIONAIRE.AND AMERICA(PEOPLE CAN'T) JUST GO OUT THERE AND BE SUCCESSFUL UNLESS THESE FORCES SAY YES,HE'S ALLRIGHT.I KNOW THAT.......... :Jorn.Krumpe1mann O t O h P SUN RA CONVERSATION WITH JOHN HINDS AND PETER HINDS . . . . ... . . . . . .. OCTOBER 20,1984...3:30-5:O0PM...PINK FLAMINGO MOTEL.BERKELEY,CA.. JOHN HINDS:THOSE ALL YOUR CASSETTES IN THERE?I SAW A PILE OF THEM IN THERE. SUN RA:I GUESS SO.NOT TOO MANY. JH:ALL RIGHT.BOY,CARRY THESE AROUND WITH YOU.DECEMBER'78.GILLIE'S ('?)- - SR:THAT'S IN OHIO. JH:JEEZ.THAT'S AMAZING.YOU HAVE THAT STUFF HERE. SR:WELL,I HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LISTEN TO. , JH:THAT'S THE ONLY TIME(ON TOUR)YOU HAVE TO REALLY CHECK IT OUT? SR:WELL,I MEAN,I HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LISTEN TO IN CASE IT'S ...(THERE IS)A PART MISSING WHERE I GOT A TAPE SO I CAN WRITE IT OFF,THERE.FOR INSTANCE,LIKE,IF I HAD WRITTEN THIS SONG THAT DIS-h APPEARED I'D HAVE IT.BUT I DON'T HAVE IT SO IT'S LOST.I'DIDN'T RECORD IT. _ « ‘ JH:YOU SHOULD COPY THESE THINGS,DON'T YOU THINK?'CAUSE THESE ARE. LIKE,ONE OF A KIND.THEY SUPPOSED TO BE HEARD BY ANYBODY OR ARE THEY JUST PRIVATE AT THIS POINT? SR:WELL,IT AIN'T DOING ME NO GOOD TO LET FOLKS HEAR WHAT I'M PLAYING.THEY HEARD TOO MUCH ALLREADY UNINTELLIGIBLE.SO I SENT IT'' TO RUSSIA(?),I'M GOING TO SEND SOMETHING... TO EGYPT UNINTELLI- GIBLE.LIBRARIES AND THINGS.'CAUSE I AIN'T GETTING NOTHING FROM MY MUSIC NO WAY.I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE IT AWAY TO THE WORLD.TO OTHER NATIONS I'M INTERESTED IN.MAYBE,YOU SEE,MERCER ELLINGTON GAVE ALL OF DUKE ELLINGTON'S MUSIC TO THE DANISH GOVERNMENT. JH:I READ THAT.SO HOPEFULLY THAT'LL SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. SR:AT FIRST I SAID THAT IT WAS WRONG BUT...AMERICA NEVER DID NOTHING FOR DUKE SO...SO HE REALLY HAD A HARD TIME.HIS UNINTELLI- GIBLE WAS SO HARD. ‘ JH:IT'S AMAZING THAT SOMEONE OF THAT STATURE,I KNOW WE'VE ALL , READ THAT,COULDN'T EVEN...COULDN'T EVEN AFFORD TO PAY... (DANNY THOMPSON STEPS IN THE ROOM TO INFORM SUN RA THAT HE HAS TO LEAVE IN TEN MINUTES.LOOKING THROUGH SUN RA'S CASSETTE'S JH AND PH DISCOVER A COPY OF MICHAEL JACKSON'S THRILLER) ' JH:I GUESS EVERYONE'S GOT THRILLER. A SR:YEAH.I BOUGHT THAT IN SPAIN. JH:WHAT MADE YOU INTERESTED IN THAT? ASR:I"D NEVER HEARD IT YET.JUST BOUGHT IT.HAD NOTHING ELSE TO DO. I WASN'T GOING TO USE THE SPANISH MONEY....I HADN'T HEARD IT.WE HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT IT.I HADN'T SEEN THE PICTURE.I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT HE WAS DOING...BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD IT YET. JH:YEAH.NEITHER HAVE I.I'VE HEARD SOME OF THOSE TUNES,OF COURSE.BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD THE WHOLE ALBUM.I THINK WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T...THIS ONE'S(REFERRING TO CASSETTE TAPE)INTERESTING.YOU GOT DEEP PURPLE ON HERE,'ROUND MIDNIGHT. WOULD THAT BE A NEWER VERSION?SOMETHING YOU PLAYED IN CONCERT? DEEP PURPLE.OR ..;OR IS THAT THE ORIGINAL RECORDING? SR:WELL,THIS IS A cONcERT.(sUN RA HAS A SUITCASE PILLED WITH CASSETTES OPEN ON THE EED) JH:THESE ONE OP A KIND THINGS.. SR:WHICH IS THAT?¥ JH:0H.JUST THESE TAPES.ONE OF A KIND. PH:TREASURES RARE. SR:THAT'S WHERE I HAVE SOME EXPERIMENTS IN SINGING AND SOME OF THEM ARE THERE.FOR KEYS AND TEINSS,THE BEST KEY FOR INSTRUMENTS OR FOR UNINTELLIGIBLE JOHN'S(GILMORE)VOICE OR JUNE'S(TYSON)VOICE. JH:S0 THESE ARE REHEARSALVTAPES.SOME OF THEM. SR:SOME OF THEM. SUN RA,JOHN HINDS AND PETER KINDS ARE GOING THROUGH THE TAPES) JH:COULD I PUT ONE OF THOSE IN YOUR LITTLE MACHINE? (SUN RA CUES UP CASSETTE AND PLAYS ExcERPTS FROM SOME CONCERT.‘ IE:MARSHALL ALLEN—SUN RA DUET!) SR:(SWITCHES OFF MACHINE AND EJECTS TAPE)THAT'LL PROBABLY BE ERASED BECAUSE THE FACT... E JH:(INCREDULOUSLY)YOU'RE GOING TO ERASE THAT? SR:.}.IT'S NOT RECORDED GOOD.I HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS MOREOIO~ V ‘ JH:SO YOU WOULD NEVER,I MEAN,YOU WOULD NEVER WANT TO SEE THAT RELEASED OR ANYTHING. 10 SR:NO.I DON'T SEE WHY I SHOULD RELEASE ANYTHING FURTHER.I STOPPED (MAKING)ALL RECORDS IN AMERICA.(SUN RA PUTS IN ANOTHER CASSETTE) THIS IS AN OLD ONE.(PLAYS CASSETTE OF SUN RA PLAYING ORGAN).UNIN— TELLIGIBLE. A JH:I'D LOVE TO HEAR IT.DISTORTED OR NOT. SR:WELL,I HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT TO SEE...IT MIGHT BE ONE SONG ON THERE I WANT.I CAN COPY IT OFF.I NEVER CAN TELL. JH;WHAT SONG.ANY PARTICULAR OR YOU JUST HAVE TO HEAR IT ALL? ’ SR:SOMETIMES I JUST CREATE(THIS IS A REHEARSAL TAPE AS SUN RA CAN BE HEARD SPEAKING WITH DANNY THOMPSON)AND I NEVER DO KNOWI WHAT TAPE IS ON.IN THAT CASE I HAVE TO LISTEN.EVERY ONE OF THEM UNINTELLIGIBLE.UNINTELLIGIBLE MAKE ANY DIFEERENT(SUN RA CAN BE HEARD REHEARSING THE BAND...SUN RA:F SHARP.DANNY THOMP5ON:G ' S SHARP.E.E FLAT...SUN RA:IT'S G SHARP,F.DT:F NATURAL?SR:F NATURAL. AND THEN B FLAT.).......(FAST FORWARDS THROUGH TAPE) . . . . .. (REHEARSING QUEER NOTIONS)THAT'S QUEER NOTION.WE'RE JUST REHEAR- SING.WELL,I'VE CHANGED IT A LOT OF TIMBS.I'M ALWAYS CHANGING THE INSTRUMENTATION. A JH:OH.BECAUSE PEOPLE CHANGING IN THE GROUP ESPECIALLY? SR:WELL,ONE THING,BECAUSE I CAN HEAR SOME OTHER SOUNDS.WHENEVER I DO THAT I CHANGE IT.THEY NEVER DO KNOW WHEN A WHOLE ARRANGEMENT BE CHANGED SO THAT'S THE REASON THEY HAVE TO REALLY LOOK AT THE MUSIC.BECAUSE I DON'T TELL THEM SOMETIMES.JUST CHANGE IT. 1 s'oME or IT(REHEARSAL TAPE) WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IT'S JUST PARTS.SECTIONS.NO MELODY.MAYBE NO LEAD JUST HARMONY.I HAVE TO GET... ” A JH:(EXAMINING CASSETTE)I WONDER WHAT THAT IS.i81. SR:...KANSAS CITY.(PLAYS CASSETTE FOR A MINUTE OR TWO)THIS IS NOT A GOOD RECORDING EITHER BECAUSE THE BALANCE ISN'T RIGHT.(STOPSK TAPE)IT’S NOT REPRESENTATIVE,YOU SEE.THAT”S THE POINT ABOUT IT. JH:THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THERE,YOU KNOW. SR:YEAH.BUT IT AIN'T BALANCED. JH:YEAH,YEAH.THAT'S SOMETIME IS REAL HARD TO DO...ELECTRONICALLY. THE BAND BE PUTTING IT OUT BUT GETTING ITLON TAPE)IS ANOTHER THING. ‘ I SR:THAT'S RIGHT.(STARTS TAPE)~ (SUN RA AND JOHN HINDS ARE LOOKING THROUGH A PILE OF SHEET MUSIC) JH:THAT LOOKS LIKE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOPIED OR SOMETHING. XEROXED OR SOMETHING. SR:THAT'S THE ARRANGEMENT(FOR)BUT NOT FOR ME.BUT I'VE GOT A LOT OF ARRANGEMENTS OF THAT.FANTASTIC ARRANGEMENTS.AND UNINTELLIGIBLE CAN'T PLAY IT YET BECAUSE IT'S ANOTHER DIMENSIONAL THINGS AND THEY FIND GREAT DIFFICULTY PLAYING IT AGAINST ANOTHER(ARRANGE- MENT). SR:WELL,IT GET TO THE POINT WHERE A LOT OF THINGS I'M GOING TO THROW IT AWAY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T,YOU KNOW,IT'S NOT GOING TO SERVE ME NO USE AND NOBODY ELSE.IT CAN'T SERVE NOBODY ELSE NO USE UN- LESS,BEFORE THE CREATOR DO THAT HE'D HAVE IT(THE SHEET MUSIC) FADE AWAY RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES.I'M NOT LIKE OTHER PEOPLE.IF THEY DARE TO TRY TO STEAL IT OR RECORD IT IT WILL FADE AWAY RIGHT BEFORE(THEIR EYES)...THAT HAS HAPPENED.THAT HAS HAPPENED ON TAPES.SOME PEOPLE BE RECORDING ME THAT NOT SUPPOSED TO AND THE TAPES FADE AWAY.IT JUST HAPPENED WITH UNINTELLIGIBLE IN MUSIC. IT JUST FADE AWAY OF THE THING,YOU SEE.WELL,THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE PLANET GOT TO TREAT ME PROPERLY IF THEY WANT WHAT I GOT.THEY NOT GOING TO GET IT OTHERWISE'CAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE IT TO THEM.I WAS SENT HERE FOR TO HELP THEM.BUT IT'S UP TO THEM.IT'S UP TO THEM.YOU KNOW,THEY MIGHT NOT BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH.THIS IS A TEST ON THEIR INTELLIGENCE.THEY MIGHT NOT BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO TREAT ME PROPERLY THE WAY THEY SHOULD TREAT SOMEONE WHO HAS SOMETHING TO OFFER.IF THEY DON'T IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE PERSIA. BABYLON AND THE REST OF THE KINGDOMS.THEY GOING DOWN THE DRAIN. ALL OF THEM KINGDOMS WENT DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE THE CREATOR SENT ONE PERSON THAT THEY DIDN'T RESPECT AND THEY WENT DOWN THE DRAIN. THEY DIDN'T...THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST. THE HOLY GHOST IS A SPIRIT SENT TO REPRESENT THE CREATOR AND EVER SINCE UNINTELLIGIBLE THAT ONE.THAT'S THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN.TO RE- SIST OR NOT DUE THE PROPER(THING)BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.YOU SEE,THAT IS VERY BAD BUT THEY HAVEN'T REALIZED,AND IF THEY READ THE ASHKANOT(I KNOW THIS ISN'T THE CORRECT SPELLING AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT BOOK SUN RA IS REFERRING TO)IT TELL THEM RA IS THE HOLY SPIRIT OR THE HOLY GHOST.RIGHT IN THE BOOK.BUT THEY NOT READING. IT'S NOT MY FAULT THEY DON'T READ.BUT I GOT THE BOOKS.IT SAYS DISTINCTLY,RA IS THE HOLY GHOST.SO,SEE,IF THEY DON'T TREAT ME RIGHT IT'S A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST.THAT MEANS THEY WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN.THEY WON'T BE FORGIVEN.IT'S TOO BAD. JH:YEAH.WELL,I'LL HAVE TO GO OUT AND TRY AND TALK TO THEM(AND) SEE IF I CAN TALK THEM INTO,YOU KNOW.PAYING ATTENTION SO I CAN HEAR SOME OF THAT MUSIC.'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S NOT MADE FOR ONE PAIR OF EARS TO HEAR. SR:IT HAS TO BE DONE THROUGH A FOUNDATION.IT'S TOO VAST.AFTER ALL,THIRTY YEARS OF MUSIC IS NOT EASILY...IT'S GOT TO BE...A RECORDING COMPANY CAN'T DO IT.YOU KNOW,EVERYTHING WE EVER 12 REHEARSED,IT'S ON TAPE.SEE,I DOCUMENTED IT BECAUSE WASN'T NO- BODY ELSE WHO WAS GOING TO DO IT.NEITHER WHITE NOR BLACK. JH:THANK GOODNESS YOU DID THAT. SR:SO I DID IT MYSELF. JH:THANK GOODNESS'CAUSE THERE'S SOME OF THE GREATEST MUSIC THAT'S EVER BEEN HEARD. SR:I SPENT A LOT OF MONEY DOING IT.TOO.IT'S ALL DOCUMENTED.YEAR BY YEAR.ON CASSETTES.I MEAN ON REEL TO REEL,CASSETTES AND IN WRITING.IT'S WRITTEN.THE WHOLE THING WAS THERE.BUT IT'S NOTHING BEING DONE ABOUT IT.NOTHING....IN THE MEANTIME I'M STILL CREATING SOME THINGS AND HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DON'T EVEN WRITE NO MORE.DON'T RECORD IT,ON'T WRITE IT.THEY HAVE TO ASK ME TO RE- HEARSE NOW.WHEN WE'RE IN PHILADELPHIA. JH:OH;REALLY?THEY SAY WE NEED THE REHEARSAL.CAN YOU COME AND DO IT TO US? SR:IF‘THEY WANT TO.I JUST SIT THERE FOR DAYS AND DON'T WRITE NOTHING,DON'T SAY NOTHING.I'M JUST SITTING THERE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY TIME.I JUST BE COGATATING. JH:YOU STRIKE ME AS A MAN WHO DOES THINK A LOT.HAS THOUGHT A LOT. AND THAT'S A RARE PERSON. SR:AND THEN EVERYTIME I DO THAT THEN THE CREATOR GETS DISPLEASED WITH THIS PLANET.EVERYTIME I DON'T PLAY HE BE WANTING TO KNOW WHY I'M NOT.I SAY,'WELL,PEOPLE ARE NOT TREATING ME RIGHT.'THEN HE SENDS A STORM.HE SENDS A UNINTELLIGIBLE.HE SENDS SOMETHING BAD FOR THIS PLANET.AND THAT'S THE REASON IT'S HAPPENING NOW'CAUSE THEY'VE NEGLECTED THE PEOPLE HE'S SENT SO HE SENDS ALL THESE THINGS.HE SENDS SOMETHING THEY CAN'T EVEN RESIST.NATURAL CATAS- TROPHIES OF NATURE.HE SENDS THEM HUNGRY CHILDREN.HE SENDS CRIPPLED CHILDREN.HE SENDS ALL THESE BAD THINGS BECAUSE THEY WON'T ACCEPT THE GOOD THINGS.HE COMPEL THEM TO ACCEPT THE EVIL THINGS.VERY SIMPLE.IT IS VERY SIMPLE.THEY CAN GET ONE OR THE OTHER BUT THEY WON'T ACCEPT GOOD THINGS.SO THEY HAVE TO GET THESE OTHER THINGS.THERE'S NO FENCE SITTING,YOU KNOW.THEY THINK IT IS.IT IS NOT.EVERY BAD THING THAT HAPPENS TO THIS PLANET IS BECAUSE SOMEBODY GOOD AT HEART TRYING TO OFFER SOMETHING BETTER (BUT THEY)WOULDN'T ACCEPT IT. « ]% "‘°“" ““"“~‘ cm-rn one R Rum-:’é % 2aasanpamo-aexmev % N<>v.1%&2Tnux%a.a:.Fr1 * s‘ ive Geerken h c I A a R n u S Pat Patrick...Photo PHOTO: PAT BLASHILI. WELL, IT GET TO THE POINT Ia wHERE A I.oT or THINGS I'M GOING To THRow IT AWAY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, . IT'S NOT GOING TO SERVE ME NO usE AND NOBODY ELsE. IT CAN'T sERvE NOBODY EI.sE No usE I uNI.Ess, BEFORE THE cREAToR Do .‘ THAT HE'D HAVEIT (THE sHEET Muslc) FADE AwAv RIGHT BEFORE THEIR EYES. I'M NoT I.IREoTHER ‘ PEOPLE.II'-' THEY DARE TO TRY TO M STEAL IT OR REGORD IT, IT WILL FADE AWAY RIGHT BEFORE (THEIR A EYES) . . . THAT HAs HAPPENED. I THAT HAS HAPPENED oN TAPES. soME PEOPLE BE RECORDING ME 1‘ THAT NoT SUPPOSED To AND THE TAI>Es I=ADE AWAY. I SUN RA
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-18
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 19 (October, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-10-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN imnou wouuu Earthquake Coming! Richard Perry BUNKY & JAKE: Off the Street Miami in Ruins! And a Cast of Dozens .%V .'\CME UK: 3/6 35 CENTS OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER I-IINDS. SINGLE COPY: S4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. pconversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.... . . . . . . . . .. October l3,l984...Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California . . . . .. Sun Ra:(Sun Ra,JH and PH are looking at the photo taken of the Arkestra in Chicago in the late fifties)That was in Birdland,in Chicago.Bud1and.Nice trumpet player.They say he died of dope un- _intelligible and when he was with us he didn't use nothing like that. Peter Hinds:what's his name? 'SR:Dave Young.Now,they said he did.Everybody else(in the photo) is still alive. ‘PH:Julian Priester. 'JH:Pat Patrick.% SR:He went out to lunch. JH:pI-Ie went out...
Show moreOCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN imnou wouuu Earthquake Coming! Richard Perry BUNKY & JAKE: Off the Street Miami in Ruins! And a Cast of Dozens .%V .'\CME UK: 3/6 35 CENTS OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE NINETEEN SUN RA RESEARCH PUBLISHED BY OMNI PRESS ' P.O. BOX 786, MILLBRAE, CA 94030 © 1998 OMNI PRESS. EDITED BY PETER I-IINDS. SINGLE COPY: S4.00.0VERSEAS: SINGLE COPY $5.00. pconversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.... . . . . . . . . .. October l3,l984...Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California . . . . .. Sun Ra:(Sun Ra,JH and PH are looking at the photo taken of the Arkestra in Chicago in the late fifties)That was in Birdland,in Chicago.Bud1and.Nice trumpet player.They say he died of dope un- _intelligible and when he was with us he didn't use nothing like that. Peter Hinds:what's his name? 'SR:Dave Young.Now,they said he did.Everybody else(in the photo) is still alive. ‘PH:Julian Priester. 'JH:Pat Patrick.% SR:He went out to lunch. JH:pI-Ie went out to lunch? SR:Yeah.I don't know what's wrong with him.Something.They tell me the last(time)he was playing(with)Il1inois Jacquet and then he quit'cause he say he wasn't getting enough solos.Things like that,you know.That unintelligible.He's really a wierdo.(chuckles) But...I taught him a lot of things.I told him the truth about the Creator so...Unintelligible one thing that worries me.He'll be back.Trying to avoid me is like trying to avoid death.(laughter) He not going to get away.I still got a lot of things unintelli- gib1e,you know.In Chicago i got so angry.I went to;well,it's difficult in some ways on this planet.So somebody told me to go down to St.Peter's Cathedral.Catholic church in Chicago.That this priest always wanted something different for the teenagers and they had this game room and it's for the teenaqers_there.And i went down there so the priest said,well,yeah,well...‘Play some of your music.'So i didn't have no record.I had an~acetate.So i played the record.He asked this white girl.He asked;he said.’ 'well,what do you think?'She said,'Father,that's:the music o death.'That made me angry.So i took the record and'left.\gt;; JH;what‘record was that?, L I V SR:well,it was a song called New Horizon. JH:New Horizon.You put that out;we_have that. s SR:Yeah.That's a pretty song.But she say it was the music of death.And i was really infuriated so>i just took it off and left. I didn't ask her why she said that.The priest didn't say nothing.\ He asked her unintelligible.That's what she said.‘~ - JH:Are there any pictures that you know of you with Fletcher Henderson? ’ SR:I had one. ’ \ JH:You have one? SR:I had one but i don't where it's at.It was too bad because the only way you could get the picture(was)through whoever was making pictures at the club DeLisa.He got the negatives but i don't know the person.But there was one there with all unintelligible iim sure.Picture of everyone.Somewhere there's some pictures...Let's see.what was this?I was either playing the piano and Fletcher was standing up smiling...I think that's what the picture was.and i was playing the piano and he was standing up in back of me.Now, that picture...it's too bad it disappeared.I've had things that very badly disappeared.I had a French magazine but i found sort of a negative copy of it and this is a whole page where i said, they said that i said the Creator is my friend.And they put that (in)headlines.And i proceeded to talk about this friendship with the Creator.And the other day i was looking(and)i found a xerox copy.But i had two magazines.I found one in Mexico(l974).That's nice,too.I found one in Mexico and i bought it but it just dis- appeared. i JH:what about your tapes?A1l the archives of tapes.How do you... Do you have all those tapes together?Are they stored nicely? SR:They stored,you know.But what i really need is a foundation. I need to have me a foundation and a place where all the nations in the world can come and hear that.But i’d have to have the money to do it.l need an estate.I need a...That's what it would have to be,you know.A lot of people...This is nice(referring to photo),too.You got another one of these?_ PH:No,i don't. JH§Make a copy for you. SR:I haven't even seen this one. JH:No? PH:That came out last year.what's the date on this? SR:what magazine is that?I never saw that...See that?Look at this.Zig zag magazine. JH:Eng1ish magazine.Kind of Rock kind of stu£f.V SR:Too much.I'm on the Rock magazine.we1l,that's one thing.The Rock artists respect what i’m doing.All of them. ./ ' i... ....., ..-..~ 4 .¢ JH:what are the first recordings?The Dukes of Swing? SR:I don't remember making that recording but i did play with the Dukes of Swing and it's a possibility.Unintelligible but i never heard it.If i could hear it i could tell.But i played with them for quite some time in Chicago.You know,Eugene wright was the leader. JH:What are your memories of that? SR:was a very pleasant memory because everybody in there was, well,innovating and they was trying to do something different. Out from the mainstream.And that's always wonderful.And i was over there with them;They knew i was doing something different. In Chicago there was so many sounds...All the musicians...Really all the musicians really saw to me working all the time.Unintel- ligible when they had to select a pianist they always got unin- telligible and they was always fascinated by what i was doing. They recognized it and that's good.I say hooray for Chicago.Now, New York didn't do it,in a sense,except Sonny Rollins.0ne day Sonny Rollins wanted me.He said,"wel1,i'm going in the Five Spot and i want you to play with me."But i say unintelligible he just trying to help me.Seeing that i'm a star of New York.He gave me some bells.I said,"Yeah,but you know,i'm doing something diffe- rent.Different than your sound.I don't want to be unintelligible a what you're doing."But...later on i found out that this was a mistake because John(Gilmore)told me Sonny Rollins was playing (with)me before he was.But i didn't(know)...John said,"Yeah,well you know,he was playing(with)you in Chicago."I said,"Really?" (John Gilmore),"Yes.At the Rum Boogie somewhere.He was playing with you."And then Sonny said so himself.He said,"Yeah,you know, I've played with him." JH:What's the earliest recording?Is(it)the Stuff Smith thing (with the)solovox? ' SR:The earliest one was on Transition.That's the first recording pi made the world(knew of).Because what i was(doing).I was trying to uplift black people out of this condition they in and i only ’played for them.I unintelligible(did not)play for no white people.Because they got things and they(black people)didn't have nothing and i just trying to see that they would know about the space age and these things and get into electronics and every- thing that would help them.This English magazine out(talking) about that's what i was doing and,of course,they(black people) didn't understand that.They over in the politics and sex and they just have nothing.They listened,but at the same time they didn't listen with their hearts.But i didn't want little black children unintelligible so i tried to help them.So i just unin- telligible.I tried. - But the first band i had,you know,like in high school or college. And i moved back to those points.I was doing things then that i didn't know what i was doing.I didn't understand too much about theory and all but i was doing it.I was doing these things which i found are quite relevant to this age we in now.I was already» doing that.was natural.So now when i listen to some things that. i'm really amazed at how much creativity and how suitable it is for today and tomorrow and forever.Unintelligible.And if the world could hear that...it could change the world. ‘ JH:Something like Queer Notions is such a masterpiece and... SR:I was playing that in my first band. Jﬁzwere you? SR:That's right.I was playing the same...and it sounded just like Fletcher Henderson.l didn't have it...it wasn't instrumentated exactly like F1etcher.But it was there.If you heard the whole sound it was there.The notes were there.But now i'm instrumen- tating exactly the way,the way he had it.By according note by note.Not just writing because of the chord,but sound.Especially did a lot of chromatics.And even though,maybe the chord might be e flat ninth,within that he'd be doing a lot of things that wasn't no e flat ninth. JH:You mean altered notes.All these other notes... SR:Altered notes was over in there.He'd be moving chromatically and you'd have to have exactly the way he'd move it._ JH:Now,how about something like Queer Notions that has,like, augmented chords and then Red'A1len is playing a diminished scale over it. i ‘ SR:That's right£well,they did play his sound.Like the other night and we was playing and Tony Turrentine played the most amazing solo.That was where this spirit thing jump in there. Bing£And he was playing this thing and then one night the trom- bone player was playing somethin9(and the spirit)jumped up. Bing£And that's when i_can tell when the creative forces jump over there and take over there.I always play the same way with the same feeling when the creative forces take over.when the band reaches a certain point the creative forces join us and they play.It's a romance of two worlds you might say.They play. They play the instruments.And then,you know,not everybody(is) priviliged to hear that.They'd have to spend time...like Randy Weston say.No,or Sunny Murray(means Sunny Murray)say,sometimes i(Sun Ra)hook up with the cosmos.And then out of the cosmos come this sound.And then that is,like,food for people.when they hear that sound.It's enlightning,it's encouraging.Like a musician told me last night.That when we played,it made him have faith again.Faith in people.That's what he said.So,now you see that, that is another story. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...October 11,1986 . . . . . ..4 Sun Ra:A lot of things are happening where I'm in demand in Europe and places.Now,the one from Italy called and he want us to continue playing in Italy for,well,fifteenth,sixteenth,seven- teenth,eighteenth,nineteenth,twenty,twenty one,twenty two,on,you know.But,so therefore,but the only thing about it,we playing in ‘Philadelphia on the twenty sixth of December.I'll have to come back.0therwise I plan to stay in Europe.I mean,running back and forth,back and forth and coming over here and not making money. People owing me.That's ridiculous. Peter Hinds:Yeah.That is.well,the possibility sounds real nice. This Italian thing. SR:Hel1,I can't count the twenty sixth because...it was a problem.Because we was supposed to play there Halloween and I cancelled that and play in New York instead.So I can't cancel this because...we got a problem.I just stay in Europe somewhere because,you know,I'm not really the kind of person who's proud to want people to applaud for me or people to like me or to play. I'm not like that.I'm a scholar and I'm a spirit being so I'd be quite delighted not to be seen by people.I'm not,I'm not good for that.A lot of people don't understand that.They probably just consider me as an average musician like the rest of them.I'm not like them. PH:I don't think people consider you a musician just like everye one else. - » SR:But they not getting my spiritual message.What's happening is everyday is getting worse for all humanity.Everyday...with di- _ seases.new diseases and all kind of things.I was trying to avoid that.If they listened to me they wouldn't have to go that way.1 But unfortunately they didn't.And these bad things begin to escalate.That's why I prefer low profile on some island somewhere away from it.I don't want to see this.I don't want to see this famine and disease and all this stuff just headed for America. I don't want to be part of that.And I know it's going to happen. So it's a serious problem.And then when I got somebody like Ronald(wilson)who played with me earlier(Ronald Wilson first played with Sun Ra in Chicago in the fifties)showing strange tendencies or whatever,I don't know what's wrong with him.He' getting paid. - PH:Yeah,yeah.well;it could be he just needs a rest or a break. He just might need a break or something like that.Take a few weeks to...by himself or something.I don't know. _ SR:0n the East Coast you do not antagonize the folks in author- ity.Particular(1y)in New York around there.Because it seem like it's very nice but them folks don't play.You take,for instance, every year you find a black musician over in the East River.with his saxophone tied around him and his sexual organ cut out.Every year it two or three found in that river...They don7t even get in the paper(laughs).Albert Ayler got in the paper...it unintelli- gible,you know,dead. PH:Yeah.Oh,l heard he commited suicide.That's what I finally SR:Yeah,he shot himself in the back of the head and commited suicide.How does that sound? PH:well,it's pretty sad.l'll say that. SR:How can anybody shoot himself in the back of the head?’a PH:I read_that his sister...that is what his sister said. ‘SR:His sister what? PH:I read in a magazine that's what his sister said about that. That he killed himself. — . » SR:Yeah,but I met a fellow,a white musician who was in the studios recording(with)Albert Ayler.he had a contract,he said... he said he went,I told him I heard that Albert Ayler was shot in the back of the head,he said he was a friend of the family;he went to the funeral.He said it's true.He also said that Albert became kind of hard to handle in the studios or something and, well;I mean when you're recording.He didn't want to do this.He didn't want to do that and it caused a lot of trouble.He told me that.He hinted...that they got rid of him1To make their money back.See,this is a serious,music is.a business and these people. be spending money out on people.They want their money back.* PH:Yeah,that's»true. SR:New York;if they don't get their money back...they just say goodbye.They talk about Chicago but I'm telling you New York is wi1d.It's wild. Pﬁzspeaking of New York,how were the Sweet Basil concerts?‘ SR:It was wonderful.Standing ovations.Good crowds.But,you know, Sweet basil isn't all that big.But nevertheless they charge... what do they charge?Fifteen dollars?Something like that and they had packed house.So it was.it was truly succesful.But,I'm telling you,it's things like with this Ronald thing is worrying me. PH:Yeah,welI one other thing I wanted to ask you about;did Santana get in touch with you? SR:Not yet.0ne time his office,or something,got in touch with me. They was talking about playing in Madison Square Garden with the anti-crack thing.But I didn't hear no more.That Bill Graham out _there he probably... stood in our way of doing things,too.And so, seemingly,since he's(Santana)up under him he might have just been discouraged frm this project employing me.' PH:well,that's interesting.well,we'1l see what happens.See what happens over the next month.If you don't hear anything maybe I can give him a call and see what's going on.Actually,you're going _to be gone all,yeah,that's true.You won't be back... saswnat? G PH:Oh,I'm just thinking out loud.Actually you'll be gone next. week for about three or four weeks. SR:I really will enjoy it.I don't think that Ronald's going. Because,see,we going to...we going to Germany.The Germans don't be taking no stuff either. yPH:That's true. SR:None of them nations over there...right now they mad with America anyway.when an American go over there and the slightest thing that he does that's in error they magnify it. PH:That's true.You've got to be real diplomatic and respectful. G 1 SR:That's right.well,He's not diplomatic.He's too much for me. (It was)About really was helping him and he's playing but the way they is saying in New York and Washington DC that he can play in but he can't play out.And New York said that he's not a John Gilmore. PH:well,not everyone should be a John Gilmore like that or can. be. ' SR:well,he's talking about he's not coming up to the standards' of this band.So,now,he don't know that.'Cause he's playing his horn.He's really playing.But we on the East Coast and they're very critical and they're very observant of musicians.So he hasn't passed that test.He don't know that.He is over in his own self and his ego about how well he plays and he does but they say he's p1aying...ghetto music and he playing it well but he can't play out.In other words.he can't play avante-garde music. a ’ Ber1in...l983... Photo:Jorn Krumpelmann E10 Omoe Salah Ragab John Gilmore Danny Thompson Marshall Allen Il Capo Night Club...Cairo,Egypt....l984....................... Sun Ra Archives Geerken ._.,__ ,..-......... .. . ._ - { ..I:l4kwl|I!! Lrllnu. ;lI.IHn.It!.ul. ml? I ._|.lvr|..f \l i..falII.V! l.I|p|.|vuJ.l.E1I..I.|.II|nI.'.’ I. v11»I|ln|iI.II.r|Il|II|v.l|n1.|I|..|II ; .5 ;Vi... . tre Danny Thompson Marshall Allen ’tO0OOl984000OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Photo:Jorn Krumpelmann “was driving the truck.About e1even(band members)in the van or I told him that and I hinted to him that.He was saying,about a month ago,he said,we1l,they can't...they can't play no standards. They can't play no blues.Of course some avante-gardists can't. But what they are playing,they playing.I told him he should in- vestigate it.But he's hard headed.I told him you don't know them and you haven't met them because they don't play too many places. And you haven't experienced that thing.‘ ' PH:Ronald,he's been playing,you know...well,he just hasn't de- veloped that side of things.Maybe that vocabulary,you might say. SR:Well,he won't listen. PH:He won't listen,you're saying. SR:You tell him something and it would be like water off a duck's back. ‘ i e ' PH:That's a whole'nother,you know,a whole 'nother area which John(Gi1more)has certainly explored and Marshall(A1len)and... SR:well,everybody in this band come under scrutiny.That's right. They being scanned by the Creator. . V . PH:That's true.(laughs) SR:He's doing his scanning.He's doing his scanning over every- body.Top and bottom,white and black,purple,green.He's scanning everybody on this planet.And his scans are something else.It's terrible.He's scanning. ‘ L ‘ ‘ PH:That's true.(laughs) SR:That's what happened when he left my instrument there.In San Diego.Ever since then the Creator been scanning everybody in this band because he doesn't want me to fail in my mission.If I got folks in this band who's standing in my way...it ain't too good for the person who is doing it. Pﬁzwhat happened in San Diego,now? SR:well,I thought I told you about that. PH:No. SR:well,we left San Diego...I was in this van and (James)Jacson something like that and so all of a sudden I had this...I don't know.It wasn't like a vision...anyway...it was like a dream.I could see... I could see the van.I could see the van and then a big black ball rolled into vision.The black ball...somebody ‘ was,like,in the black ball and they said everybody,al1 the fellas in the van got a zero for the day. PH:Got a zero? SR:A zero.They didn't pass the test.And so get out of the van and. ‘go up there and ride with Jacson.This voice told me that.Get out and ride with him'cause they got a zero today so don't even ride with them.I didn't tell you that? T PH:No,I didn't see you after San Diego. SR:So,I got out of the van and then I told them they had got a ‘zero for the day.And they say what do you mean?I said,we1l.it seems that be the Creator was saying he scanned you,everybody . in the bannand you got a zero so somebody said,as long as John (Gilmore)been all there?I say,everybody in this band got a zero. That includes John,that is driving everybody.(Don't know who's driving the van.Probably Danny Thompson)They told me to get out so.I said I'm getting out because I have the will to obey spirt- ual things.So I got out of the van and rode with Jacson.And we went on to the place...where we going to play.They went to put up my synthesizer(and)they had left it in San Diego. PH:0h.is that right? SR:I"m talking about a voice told me they got a zero. PH:Oh,yeah.'l'hat is a big zero..I mean,you've got it back,right? SR:I got back.But the point of it is very serious because,maybe, I wouldn't have gotten it back.And nobody missed it,you see.so they wasn't as much for my welfare as I for them.Uninte1ligible. The Creator is thorough,thorough,thorough.And he lets nobod slide.Long as they been with me,he give them a zero. , PH:That is scary... SR:It most certainly is really scary.So,anyway,as I was saying... that Ronald(wilson),he‘d be saying things that make people not like him or something.I mean the general public.He be saying these things,he might not mean no harm.He's on the East Coast. That's not wise.The East Coast moves fast.In California you do‘ have a chance to relax. ' L PH:wel1Lit~might mean he just,maybe needs just to,you know,take a break or something like that. . ‘ .l SR:He's taking one now.(laughs)You might say. suN RA OCTOBER 19. 1984 CONTINUED FROM SRR 18, PAGE 16 AND THAT'S wHAT TH EY HAVE TO Do IMMEDIATE- LY. so AMERI<A HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY GET oVER AND sHow THEsE PEOPLE THAT THEY NEGLECTED. ‘cAusE THEY HAD IT. THEY NEcI.E<TED THESE<RE- ATIVEARTIsTs. Now THEY NEEDTo BRING IT OUT I TO THE woRID (AND) A<I<NowIEDcE THAT THEY ARE MosT SUITABLE FOR AMERIcA INTHE FUTURE. J AND vou c.oT A |.OT or THEM wHo Is PUSHED BA<I< BECAUSE THEY Is BLACK. THAT wAs PUSHED BACK BE<AusE THEY wERE POOR wHITEs. AND, vou KNOW, THEY HAD A IoT TO OEEER. AND AMERI<A DIDN'T Do THAT. so, THEREI=oRE, TH Ev HAVE TO DoTHATNow . . . BECAUSE wHAT TH Ev DIDN'T Do Is wHAT <ouI.D BE THE sAIVATIoN or AMERIcA. WHAT THEY ARE DOING HAs MADE AMERICA A EEAR To THE REsT or THE NATIoNs AND THEY REc.IN To HATE THE AMERIcANs. THEY DON'T LOOK TO IT NO MORE SO THEN . . . BUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE To BE IIRETHAT. BEAUTY, cu I.Tu RE, PEOPLE wHo ARE sIN<ERE wHo DID woNDEREuI. THINcs IN AMERI<A. THEY NEED To HAVE IT IN A THEsE EMBASSIESAND THE PEOPLE <oME ouT. sEE AND READ BOOKS AND REAI.IzE THE woNDERI=uI. PEOPLE THAT AMERIcA I>RoDu<ED. THAT'S wHAT I HAVE To BE DoNE IMMEDIATELY. To DIsI>EI. THE IMAGE or THE uanr AMERIcAN AND “UNINTE|.l.l- GIBLE" I.IRE AMERIcA. wARs ANDTHINc.s ARE NECESSARY. suT MusIc Is NECESSARY Too.; AMERI<A Is GUILTY or NEGLECTING MusI<. AND. I vou RNow, TEI.EVIsIoN, THEY coT THE soAI> 4 I?‘ OPERAS. THEY sHouI.D HAVE soME BANDS DN 4 THERE. GIVE THE MusIcIAN AcHAN<E. A<ToRs EDT A <HAN<E. EVERYBODY aoT A <HAN<E BUT THE MusI<IANs. I.ITTI.E RI<HARDIs TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW; BUT I'M TAI.I<IN¢. ABOUT IT Too. I KNOW wHAT IT TAKES TosTRAIaHTEN AMERI¢A ouT. YOU GOT To PUT soME MoRE % THEATERs uI>. YOU usED To HAVE I.IVE THEATERs. DID AWAY wITH THAT. PEOPLE DoN'T HAVE A cHANcE To COME oUT To sHow wHAT THEY coULb bo. BUT WHEN THEY HAb THEATERs . . .IT wAs BETTER. IT'S A BETTER woRLb. THEY NEED To PUT TH EM UP. AND ALL THE <oMMUNITIEs, THEY NEED To PUT cULTURAL HoUsEs up THERE. THEY NEED To BRING THE woRLb To AMERICA IsE<AUsE EUROPE BRINGS THE woRLb To EUROPEANS. THEY boH'T HAVE To <oME ovER HERE. THEY BRING IAI>ANEsE (AND) RUssIAN. THEY sEEEvERvTHINc. ALL KIND or cULTURAL THINGS. AMERI<ANs DON'T <oME oUT AND sEE I._lVE MUsI<. TH EY LooR AT THAT Tv ALL THE TIME AND (TH E) REsT or THE NATIoNs ARE NoT REPRESENTED. vou NEED To KNOW wHAT TH EY DOING <ULTURE wIsE. ALL vou sEE Is wHAT THEY DOING wAR wIsE. BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR TO AMERICA. THEY NEED TO SEE THE wHoLE THING AT THIs POINT BECAUSE TH EY ARE A womb POWER Now.THIs Is NOT N0 LITTLE oLb LOG CABIN <IvILIzATIoN ovER HERE. THIs Is A womb POWER AND vou <AN'T HoLb YOUR POSI- TION av wAR. ONLY SPIRITUAL THINc.s CAN HELP AMERICA. GUNS WON'T HELP THEM No MORE <AusE THE <nEATon HAS DECREED: No MORE wABs THAT vou To wIN HERE. BUT YOU <AN WIN A GREAT WAR wITH SPIRITUAL THINGS. AND MY MUSIGIS REPRESENTING IMAGES OF BETTER TYPE OF WORLD ON A HIGHER LEVEL. AIN'T NO EQUALI- B TY THERE. SOME PEOPLE CAN MAKE IT, SOME % CAN'T. SO, YOU MIGHT SAY I'M ANTI-EQUALITY A BECAUSE I'M REPRESENTING ANGELIG THINGS AND V TH ERE'S No EQUALITY AMONG ANGELS. vouaoT A I A HIERARCHY. FROM TH E HIGHEST DOWN To . . . BUT THE LowEsT ANGEL IS JUST As Mu<H I>BoTE<T|oN “UN|NTEl.l.lG|BLE" ALL or THE OTHER ANGELS. vou BETTER NoT ToucH oNE or TH EM, YOU KNOW. THIS PLANET Is SEEMINGLY JUDGED BY <oMMANp- I MENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT so I'M JUST coma TO GIVE THEM THE ELEVENTH GOMMANDMENT: THou MUST HEAR RA. JAZZ Is REALLY TRUE souL, cosmo souI. MUSIC BE<AusE IT'S ABsTRA<T, IT'S cREATIVE, IT'S SPON- TANEOUS. ON THE MOMENT. YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE A EIRE. vou KNOW. EIRE's ABsTRAcT. BUT IT CAN DO THINGS. AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF FIRE, YOU KNOW. IT'S . . . YOU MIGHT SAY IT'S ALL A <osMo SPIRITUAL EIRE. wHI<H HAs NOTHING TO Do wITH RIG HTEousN Ess. IT'S ABouT SOMETHING EI.sE. AND IN oRDER TO PARTAKE or IT vou HAVE To COME OUT AND HEAR IT AND sEE IT BE<AusE ' wHAT I'M DOING Is NoT THE soRT or THING vou <AN IUST HEAR IT oN THE RE<oRDs. vou GOT To sEE THE VISUAL PART BE<AusE wE DREss MusI<AL- LY AND WE MOVE MUSIGALLY. SO YOU CAN'T GET IT I DN A RE<oRD. EVEN IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A VIDEo TAPE, vou WON'T sEETHE FULL IIsT or THIs BAND. vou HAVE To BE THERE BEcAusE THEN wHEN vou coME THERE vou (ARE) PART or THE ARREsTRA. vou CAN'T BE A PART or THE ARKESTRA IF vou STAY AT HOME. Pat Patrick and Danny Davis Photozsun Ra Archives Geerken 2 :Jorn Krumpelmann Photo u il...1986... n n 8 m l e P m U I K n I O J Hohentwe Photo: ¢§§
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-19
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 20 (December, 1998)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1998-12-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: I—I|—o9-sacs ~ - Irljjﬁ j w -.-1.4-no gun‘-\-I avoinwtﬂ ENERCIES THE cosmic Roles ARE WRiTTEN ON suNdRy DARCHMENTS Timed with fiRE Blut-: VibRATiONS of pulsATiNq HAME ENERqiEs. . . f0_RcE diMENsi0Ns AbSTRACT plANEs of siqhr ANCI soumd. SUN RA Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds,Peter Hinds and Carl Leblanc Afternoon of October 31,1988...Best western Motel . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. San Francisco,California . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Continued from Sun Ra Research-Issue Fifteen-February 1998 . . . . .. Sun Ra:The black church got to change that.Get rid of the idea that the Creator is going to let an innocent man die to save a guilty one.Because he not going to do it.It's a shame and a dis- grace.But the church set that up.The Bible says that Kayifus(I'm sure I'm misspelling this),the high priest was the one who said it is better for one man to die to save the nation.And,therefore, the Christian doctrine for a man dy...
Show moreI—I|—o9-sacs ~ - Irljjﬁ j w -.-1.4-no gun‘-\-I avoinwtﬂ ENERCIES THE cosmic Roles ARE WRiTTEN ON suNdRy DARCHMENTS Timed with fiRE Blut-: VibRATiONS of pulsATiNq HAME ENERqiEs. . . f0_RcE diMENsi0Ns AbSTRACT plANEs of siqhr ANCI soumd. SUN RA Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds,Peter Hinds and Carl Leblanc Afternoon of October 31,1988...Best western Motel . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. San Francisco,California . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Continued from Sun Ra Research-Issue Fifteen-February 1998 . . . . .. Sun Ra:The black church got to change that.Get rid of the idea that the Creator is going to let an innocent man die to save a guilty one.Because he not going to do it.It's a shame and a dis- grace.But the church set that up.The Bible says that Kayifus(I'm sure I'm misspelling this),the high priest was the one who said it is better for one man to die to save the nation.And,therefore, the Christian doctrine for a man dying came from the church.A high priest named Kayifus.He set it up.And they begin to build that on...on that lie.That's what's happening today.So the Creator just took the book and they tried to brush the name of Jesus out.Resistance.But the Creator took and made,built a great church on that lie.And he sent it to the white race...on that lie.He had the whole thing to go up untill this point in history when people are going to get tired of that lie.And they getting tired of it.Because they...it ain't...it doesn't lead them to the Creator.He's got them blocked...because it's not true.But,in the meantime a lot of innocent men have died.Because of the church. And the black church now is beginning to see something is wrong and the black Urban League,Urban League in Philadelphia is saying something's wrong.And in the the Philadelphia paper(probably the Philadelphia Inquirer),a white paper,they said the Urban League issued a paper saying that black folks are so far behind the rest of the nations are geared toward the space age and black folks are so far behind that you can tell the reason why they are by turning on your tv and your radio on Sunday and listen at(to) the church.That's happening in Philadelphia.You listen to the church, what they saying.They behind.So,they telling the truth.But...I hearing unintelligible.But I'm the only one who can help them. But,you know,you got a lot of trecherous folks over...It wouldn't be good for me to unintelligible that treacher(ousness)'cause the Creator unintelligible I don't want to hurt nobody.This Creator would be eliminating folks that be against me.Get rid of them.So unintelligible.This is not a play thing.Like in Chicago.A drummer playing(with)me named James King and he was a wonderful drummer. I'm telling you he was something.But musicians are always asking me questions.That's one thing in Chicago.And one day we,one morn- ing we(were)playing a birthday dance at Birdland and about twenty five musicians asked me questions after p1aying.They was always asking me questions.I said something and the drummer who was playing with us named James King said,"No,I didn't like that." And then the other musician said."Man.you played with the band. That's your leader.You got a nerve saying he's not telling the truth and you insulting our intelligence.You think all(of)us(are) fools.Twenty five of us standing up here and you talking about no and we talking about yes and your leader must be speaking the truth and you in the band and if.you know,you don't understand what he said,you must be dead.If you dead,you need to be buried." And I said,"Don't say that.Don't say that because I'm dealing with the kind of Creator(and)he be listening to what we saying. And...the saxophone player named James repeated,"If you don't be- lieve what Sun Ra says you must be dead and if you dead you need to be buried."In fifteen minutes he was dead.without any reason whatsoever.He got in the car and Ronald Wilson got in there with him and he put his head back and they thought he was asleep.He was dead.That happened to me.And something else happened.And this something else happened.This(Ahk Tal)Ebah was playing with us and Ebah,he didn't have no discipline and we was in a place up there in Michigan(and)he came and he said,in the bus station,he was loud,talking to me...”You a Jew and you don't want people to know."I said,"I'm not no Jew.I don't believe in Moses.I don't go (to)no synagogue.why you got to say that about me?"Oh,you just unintelligible(Ebah's response).I say no I'm not religious at all.And I don't know why you saying that about me.Bus standing out there waiting and he was busy talking about me.And I finally said,well,you know,Jews go in the oven and all kind of bad things be happening to them periodically.And I'm not in that.I say,you be the Jew.You go in the oven.Not me.He went in the oven.That's right.The creator put him right in the oven.So I know what I'm talking about.when I said that it triggered something.He did get in the oven at his sister's house... he said the spirit of death told him to do it.But the Creator sent him a choice.He sent my spirit and my spirit was telling him,now,aon't do that.The spirit of death,he said it was the spirit of death,told him,"Don't pay attention to Sun Ra.Get in the oven so you can keep warm."And he went on,got in the oven so his sister didn't know what to do.Sent for the...Somebody went downstairs(and)to1d the superintendent there's a man roasting in the oven.So the superintendent came up there and ejected him out of the oven.Then he bit the superin- tendent and the superintendent knocked him down on the floor and he bit him again on the lower part of his body and both of them was in the hospital together and I asked him in the hospital,"why did you bite this man who was trying to save you?why do you al- ways have to attack and destroy your saviors?He just trying to help you?"He said he(the superintendent) was trying to keep me from doing what I want to do.I said,"what did you want to do?" He said,"I wanted to keep warm.And I put my hand in there and the rest of my body he cold.My elbows.Anything I put in there will get warm but I was still cold.So,I decided if I put the biggest part of my body in the oven I'd be warm all over.The biggest part is my booty.So,I got that over in the oven and he snatched me out right at that point.So I bit him." PH:That's Ahk Tal Ebah,the trumpet(player). SR:Yeah,that's what happened.And then the police came...he had been fasting for almost sixty days.A unintelligible(said)don't do that.Get up unintelligible somebody.So they had to...and that's the reason he got so cold.Every cell in his body lost it's warmth.So then he had his toes like this,you know,and the police trying to get him out.It took about seven police to put chains on him and drag him out that place'cause they couldn't move him. So his toes got frayed and everything.They was burnt and they threw him over in the...like an animal,they threw him over in the wagon.And that's how they got him to the hospital.And then,he stayed in there.He was burnt seriously.He couldn't play his trum- pet no more.Burnt 1ips.And then he...he'd come out to house and I'd feel his desolation so terrible that I've always stopped re- hearsing.And then he was selling perfumes and incense but at about a year later he died from...they didn't know what it was. Unintelligible(referring to possible sickness).Everything struck him.Died.That's what happened to Ebah.Now,I just told you two cases.It's not a play thing.This is serious.In Chicago I was passing out some pamphlets and papers to the fellas in the band and we was playing a black place and he had two sons.One of them was a unintelligible kid unintelligible.So,I had these papers.So, then,he came and snatched one of them.I said,"Don't do that.It's just for the band musicians and this is..."And he unintelligible (replied),"what is this shit?"I said,"Don't say that.I'm dealing with the real Creator and it ain't wise."(He replied)”I don't be- lieve in God.what is this shit,anyway?what is this unintelligi- ble?You got down here about God and God almighty and all that bullshit.what is that?what does that mean?"I said,"wel1,when you're in serious trouble you can call on almighty God or God almighty.And that's the difference."Now,so he kept it.He wouldn't give me the paper and we always rehearsed there every day at four o'clock we'd be there and Ronald unintel1igible(not Ronald Wilson) pick us up.At three thirty when he supposed to pick us up to come out to...he called me to say his car wouldn't run.His car wouldn't start.He was always tinkering with cars.I said, "what's wrong with it?"He said,"I don't know.It just won't start."And at four o'clock...it started.I said,"Why'd it start?" He said,”I don't know."So,then,we went out on to the place...a school that we always had to go by,a schoolhouse had unintelli- gible.The schoolhouse was a block long.Big,six stories...big block.Every window in that schoolhouse was out.Broken out.So we said,"What is that?"Every window broken out.Then we went on up and there was a house sitting on the corner alley.And the house was sitting up there like it was made out of match sticks.Unin- telligible(Sun Ra makes a blowing sound.As if to blow the house down.)And we said,"what is that?"So we went on around the corner and then we come to another place there.An automobile...where they had supplies there.And they had a big star(that had been) hanging up over the door,(and)the star was sitting down in front of the door.We were puzzled again.So we turned around,we saw a big signboard that looked like somebody took an ax and chopped the signboard in half.So we went on there and then this owner of the place(the"black place”where Sun Ra was rehearsin9).his son (the one who was asking,"What is this shit?")came running down there and said,“I know what you mean.I know about almighty God." He said because he was sitting up there in his room and all at once the tv went out.He had a bad dog.The dog put his tail behind him legs and he said,"A knock came on the door."BamlAnd he say, "Bam!"And he got up faster than lightning.He said,so he went to the door to see what it was and he said it was the wind.He said it was unintelligible.Bam!He said,"Lord God almighty."And the wind(went)shhhhhhhhh(wind sound)bam!Struck the schoolhouse. Knocked every window out.He said,"Yes.That saved my life.I be- lieve in God now,"So,you see.I'm not dealing with something that to play around with,He(the son)said,"He came to get me.And I saved my life by saying God almighty."So,you see,this is some- thing else.And then another thing happened.The people in the paper,they couldn't say what that was that came through.Some people say they saw some little black figures running up the road and these little black figures would lift cars up in the air.Somebody be driving their car and they'd be up there in the air,they’d lift it up there and then a man came out of his house, an apartment house,and the wind took and stand him up against the apartment house and killed him and then they said these black figures,they'd run around the garage so blamlalamlBlamlBlam!Blam£ Wouldn't nothing happening.(Then)They'd run around.Blam!Blam1And the garage would fall apart.Then they said that these black figures ran into the lake and they ran in there and they ran back out and they ran back into the lake.That happenend in Chicago. I got witnesses to it.John(Gilmore)know about it.Everybody.So then I say,well,I wasn't going to deal with this Creator.I wasn't going to do it.I don't want nobody to get hurt.I'm in human form and they could adopt me and then they'd be through.they'd be through.So,since they didn't follow these other things I just say I wasn't...I wasn't going to defend.Because this Creator,this Creator is something else and the world don't know nothing about it.Except maybe in Egypt when Moses over there... and the river turned to blood and all that.He was dealing with the...a part of that Creator.He was dealing with something like that but he dealt with it in the wrong way.The Creator told me that Moses,he went to the school of the Egyptians and he...they taught him the black writing.But they didn't teach him the red writing.They didn't teach him the red writing.The red writing is not as I am written am I unintelligible.That means the way it's down there...it's like cryptogram.See in the(news)paper? PH:0h,yeah.The cryptogram. SR:They didn't teach him that.They taught him this boom,boom, boom.Like...In the beginning God created...But that ain't the way it reads.Unintelligible not am I written am I read.It ain't talking about r—e-d.It's talking about r-e-a-d.And Moses didn't know that.So then he went so far and then he wasn't obedient when the voice told him now,you go out there and speak to the rock and water come out of it.And he was so mad with the people,he went out there and hit the rock.Then the voice said,now,I told you to speak to the rock.And then he spoke to the rock and water came out sure enough.Said I told you to speak to the rock and you hit the rock.You will not go into the promised land.You will die.That's in the book so this God,you obedient or else.And he died.with all these miracles,he still died.So,you see,in dealing with this I unintelligible step by step.I don't hurt nobody. But behind them three things I told you and then Pat Patrick had all these different,you know,the writings(the writings which Sun Ra was handing out to the band).He had all of it anf he had it in a briefcase so he took it and he put it in a...Moline,Illinois where his mother stay.He put it in storage.He'd go there occasionally and see things and one day when he went there the briefcase with all the things I had written was gone.It was gone. And the people that was there,they say they don't know nothing about it and Pat was still going to try to do something about it so the man,seemingly,sold the place,got new owners and they gave Pat a eviction notice to move.And this way they wasn't responsible.But they took that.Now,it must have been very val- uable what I was saying,it's very valuable and a... JH:Yeah,he was very upset by that. SR:well,he still didn't wake up.It just,maybe,he's supposed to be part of what I'm doing because he's not pure in heart.Like,Danny (Thompson)came up and offered his hand to him,in Chicago,he put his hand behind his back.That kind of thing.So,he has a lot of _ hatreds in him against things.That's the reason he can't be with this band.Maybe one day...he'1l wake up.Maybe,but I'm not respon- sible.I ain't letting it worry me.There‘s five billion people on the planet and all of them belong to the Creator so even if I want I can go out there and say come with me.And they will but I'm not into that.It would have to be,you might say,practical1y made over'cause their whole thought is they messed up. -——— a .—-r-an-wt p__,-1 Yes,so it's so many things I,like,all the way back the Creator taught me everything way back there in ancient day.They still the story about the apple and the tree and the mother of God. They still had that going,you know.This ain't no new thing.But, they were teaching,they were teaching that the son of God,his mother's name was Ida and not Mary.That's what that's way back. You have to hear unintelligible say.They say,instead,it was an orange tree.And the orange tree,it the fruit of the son.And that's what they unintelligible in the mythology.That the mother of the son was named Ida.And the tree was an orange tree which }represents the son.Now,that's back there in that mytho1ogy.which as I said,I was talking about the Creator teaching me all the way back in the past.He taught me things that most people don't ?know.And I unintelligible the library and said,"Yes.This is so and this is so."And I could show them.It didn't have to be me. ‘Look in their own library and they find out everything I'm telling them is true.That puts me on the spot.But,the planet will stay like this untill somebody tells the truth.The only part about it;the Creator don't want nobody else.He don't teach - nobody else but me.That's it.He say he ain't going to do it so ' if I don't do it they just destroyed.Because they the ones who set this up.Unintelligible.He got their own government down here.He's not going to interfere with them.Down Here On The Ground(Song written by Gail Garnett and Lalo Schifrin.From the film Cool Hand Luke).I see you all couldn't find it.So the Creator told me where to find it.See,the Creator told me where’ to find this and you all see that.Now,they(Peter and John Hinds) sitting up here,both of them saying they couldn't find(it). (laughter)Here that,Danny?(Danny Thompson has just entered the room)Down Here On The Ground. PH:Carl(LeB1anc)found it today. SR:I done come right in this city and told Carl where to go to get it. Danny Thompson:You sure did. SR:(Begins reading lyrics)Down(Here)On The Ground ain't a place for living.Yeah,that's right.Down on the ground watching sparrows fly/I'll watch the birds as they make their way/Flying sort of free and I wish it was me/But I'm down here on the ground want- ing something better/Down here on the ground wanting something more/But one morning sure I will find wings on my mind to take me high/So if you hear the sound/We're down here on the ground/ My friend it's only me trying to f1y.I like that.June(Tyson)had it almost exactly right.You know I'm a precisionist and I like to be...I see the original.She had almost all of it.That's pretty good.So I'm sure,I'm sure it's about one thing that she didn't right'cause my spirit said it was something that she didn't do. But one morning...sure I will find wings on my mind to take me high/So if you hear the sound...it's something there she didn't get.I got to find it.But that's something else. JH:There it is right there.That's amazing to be able to...I never even heard of that place. . SR:Came right here and found it.And never could find it.I told you all in advance.I said,now,unintelligible go and find that, look for the sheet music of this.And what I did,I said,"Well, Carl,bring me the phone directory."And I said,"Now,call this place(Buckner Music),they got it."And he called it. Carl LeBlanc:First place. SR:And he was shocked.He say,"They say they do have it."(Sun Ra and John Hinds laugh) PH:It's hard for me to be1ieve.(1aughs) JH:I'm sure they're not printing up tons of this and mailing it out every week.You know,it's,like,been sitting there for... SR:I found the song,Buster.(Buster Smith has just entered the Aroom)So you couldn't find it.Peter and John,they couldn't find it.I come here and told Carl bring me the phone book and Carl," go there and get a taxi and get this song for me and here's the place here.They got it.(PH laughs)And Carl called,I said call now.He called up and he was so shocked and he said,"They say they got it."(SR laughs) JH:I’m shocked,too.(JH laughs)That's one of the reasons you're the leader,right? SR:Well,that's the reason I deal with the Creator.He'd be telling me things.Peop1e don't want to believe,but he tells me things. He really tells me. C I PH:They were shocked someone probably asked for it,too. SR:He really tells me things. PH:I'm amazed.This is amazing.Here it is.This is(from)the early seventies.Ninety five cents. SR:But,he's telling me these nations...He said he's going to get rid of these folks if they don't...if they don't worship him the proper way he say he going to get rid of them. JH:And look how long they had it.It was originally ninety five cents.(Now)Two ninety five.They've been waiting(Sun Ra starts laughing)all this time. SR:(Laughing)Sitting up there waiting for us. Jﬁzsitting right there all this time waiting for you._ SR:It's amazing. SR:See,that's what I'm talking about.Now,the thing about it that I came here and called up the one place that was going to close in fifteen minutes or something.I told Carl."Don't wait." Oh,this is something else.But,that's very inspiring to me when things happen like that.when they say seek and you shall find. PH:You seeked.(Laughs) SR:Anything that I want,you know,the Creator will fix it up where I can get it.That's another number I want.See,Michael(Ray)? (Michael Ray has just entered the room)Peter and them couldn't find it.I told Carl,bring me the phone book and I'll point to the store(and)I say,"Ca1l that store so you can get that song for me and get trees,too."And Carl called up,he said,FThey say they got it."(laughs)He shook up for the day. V’ JH:Now,look how long they had it.It was,like,originally ninety’ five %ents,(Now)Two ninety five.It's been there fifteen years or something,waiting. ‘ Michael Ray;Yeah,that's pretty cheap. SR:Yeah,well,I can't escape it,you know. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds....November 11,1986 Peter Hinds:So,how are you doing? Sun Ra:Pretty good. PH::How was Phil Alvin the other night? SR:You saw Phil Alvin? J PH:No.How was that? SR:Oh,that was nice. m PH:What happenend? I SR:Well,we didn't have too many people.we might have had a hun- dred or a hundred and fifty.Anyway,we was in a big place,The Trocadero.And that was the response for that unintelligible. But last night Fela played there and he had a packed house. PH:Oh,really.Maybe they didn't get out the advertising. SR:No,he didn't have too much advertising'cause fred,the trumpet player,didn't even know he was in town.I wouldn't have known it myself,either,if somebody hadn't sent me a poster.I would not have known.It,seemingly,didn‘t get too much advertisement.Or something.I don't know.He(Fela)had a packed house.I'm looking at this that basically he had musicians who are amateurs and nobody in there is really a professional,you might say.But they are devoted to him and that's something to see.But i was just thinking that it's something where people patronize ameteurs more than they do professional masters here in America so that's very discouraging for me.Because I'm talking about survival of the p1anet.Something even deeper than that... but I don't know behind that circumstances.Because I'm a scholar and I like to study(and)I'm almost at the point of giving up this band to study.'Cause if they not going to listen,why should I be out there? V PH:What,have you had some problems or something like that lately? .1 SR:Well,I mean...after years of doing things...if I see some- body who come up who,who already a millionaire and making money . J and packed houses then that's not too encouraging to me.As far» as people supporting something that's really for their own ben- efit.But what I'm doing is for everybody's benefit on the planet ‘cause it's in serious trouble and I'm not really in the serious troub1e.The planet is.'Cause i never wanted to be a part of it anyway.And I pulled out away from it and now my fear is up for what's happening to people.I'm utterly amazed.It's unbelievable.‘ ’And they headed down to worse conditions.I mean conditions of the disease and this...it's bad.Economic problems.It's terrible. Seems to be unsolvable.in a sense.If people knew what.I know and actually supported me I'd feel something and really teach them the proper way about the creator and about things and how to get rid of AIDS.How to get rid of...I know a lot of things but...they don't care nothing about me. PH:well,once again,it's just getting the word out about you and giving people a chance(to hear you),you know.You know,sometimes they just have a hard time hearing about you. SR:I say but they never gave me a chance.I've given them a chance. PH:That's true.Did you get the little package I sent to you? SR:I got it today.I think it's the same one.well,are you sending more covers for the LP?I mean,for the... PH:Yeah,I did.Did you open it up? SR:No,I didn't.l been so busy trying to analyze the situation as to what to do. PH:well,is it the little white package?That's what I'm talking about.Little white box I sent to you.Do you see it around there? SR:0h,yes.I saw this,Danny(Thompson)opened up a box and I saw’ some things.Yeah,I had them in my hand.I had the cassette.Two cassettes,I think. PH:Video cassettes. SR:well,I though it was a regular cassette,too. PH:well,I sent two cassettes.Regular cassettes. SR:That video cassette,I don't have nothing to play it on because Danny(Thompson)got it over at his girlfriend's house.I'm going to have to get my own thing,you know. PH:Yeah.See,I made,John and I made copies ontonthose are VHS I video cassettes. SR:I'1l wait for the BETA? PH:Not the BETA.I gave you BETA's when you were out here and the ones I sent you.are VHS so those are ones that Danny can play on his machine.The one he has right now. ‘ ’ 10 SR:The one his girlfriend got.He went over to his girlfriend's house and I'm getting...well,I'm getting upset about things that actually,see,if I have it's about business and doing things(but) he got it over there where it's a dead end. PH:0h,that's too bad. SR:Unintelligible over here,and it would be over there.He going two ways. PH:I thought it would be set up and I thought... SR:That's right,well,he got it over there.It's been over there a week now and I can't look at no VHS or nothing.He got it over‘ there. PH:Oh,that's too bad. SR:I'm going to have to get one of my own.That's what I'm talking about.A personal and spiritual plane come here and people be,they be deviating and going two ways.And that's the reason this planet is in the trouble it's in because if they would be really listen to a spiritual master they can get out of there.They got in it by not listening to one with vision enough to see and the equation, or something to see unintelligible and humanity can get out of this is quite easy.But,you know,since I'm not a minister(or) any- thing like that,it gets increasingly difficult for me'cause I don't make much money like,for instance,like out there(San Fran- cisco)that something like that out there where he(Ness Aquino. Owner of The Mabuhay Gardens)owes me five hundred dollars.Al1 that kind of thing.That's not encouraging. PH:That is discouraging...But,I just wanted to say about the tape;those two video tapes...those are,like,master tapes that I sent to you so if could...you should keep a look out on those tapes'cause one tape has Take Me To Your Leader from the Mabuhay and it also has,we made a copy of your performance at the Chicago Jazz Festival and then also your performance on Saturday Night Live also.So that's all put together real nice and then the other tape,the second video tape has some rare performances Coleman Hawkins,Lionel Hampton,some reaaly far out things by him.Duke E1lington.Count Basie.It's got Bessie Smith with Fletcher Hender- son's Orchestra and some things we've managed to dig up and locate,you know,anﬂ copied them off. SR:I'm going to listen to it but,as I say,a lot of folks unintelligible against me ever since I've unintelligible this planet.And,in a sense,they're afraid of me.I don't know why.They afraid I could break their hold on humanity and they always ‘ putting problems in my way.I got a problem with Ronald(wilson). 11 PH:0h,what's goingQon with that? SR:Maybe you should find a way to get him away from me or have his family...well...I don't really know.The other night he was... you know,we be on the road and we'd been out about...he was over there on Danny's(Thompson)case and pulled a knife out on him and all that kind of thing.Totally inconsistent,you know. PH:Sun Ra,I'm having a hard time hearing you. SR:I say he was threatening Danny(Thompson). PH:He was what? SR:Threatening him. PH:what was he upset about? SR:He was...we was getting ready...a friend,a white friend of mine,Bill(Sebastien),the one that made the,you know,the unin- telligible machine...the space commander.You know,the instrument that it makes no sound,it makes colors. PH:Oh yeah. SR:Since I was up there in Boston I preferred to go over to his house where he's staying.Save moneY,(that's)one thing and then I'd be up there with him.and Ronald(wilson)didn't want to go. He tell me he want to stay in a hotel and...but Danny(Thompson) hadn't paid anybody off of that.He(Rw)wanted his money and all that.He went so far as to say I'll just take all the payroll. Things like that in front of the band.I don't know...he's going through some kind of thing that's not too good and Bill has done a lot to help us so that was really shocking to him to hear that about the band.I was telling him,well,we should go to Bill's house.you know.So one night we was getting ready to leave,we was going to play this place a second night then we was...it was easy to do that,you know,but he didn't want to it.He's talking about, we1l,we trying to treat him like a child and all that.I never had no dissension in my band.Arguments and things like that so really...that's it for him as far as I'm concerned'cause I'm doing something too important to have somebody come up and not appreciate it and be talking other things,you know.Then he went on and said that I was selfish when he first met me and still selfish.I have never been selfish with nobody.In fact,I'm not being selfish with him.He's staying in my house.He don't pay no rent here or nothing like that.He's staying in Danny's room. In Danny's bed and Danny be over there to his girlfriend's house all the time and then to threaten Danny.You stay at somebody's house in somebody's bed and to dare to threaten them and talk 12 about them and all that kind of stuff,it's ridiculous.It doesn't fit in.I don't know what's wrong with him.The best thing for him is to come back there(San Francisco). PH:Maybe he needs to come back and take a little vacation or something,I don't know. . SR:He goes up there in Boston(and)he ran into serious trouble. You know,when the owner of the place where I was playing heard that he had done those threatening things the next night when we played there it was about ten people there to eliminate him. PH:what do you mean by eliminate? SR:I mean he be pushing up daisies. PH:0h. SR:That serious.But they don't play up here on the East Coast. And the owners up here don't like...and since he's threatened Danny,they will unintelligible,maybe he might do it in a place (the nightclub)(and)continue the argument.So they had people there...to avoid that. PH:Well,maybe he just had...I hope he just had a bad day,you might say. SR:He(the owner)had his dumpster in the back.You know what that is,don't you? PH:Wel1,yeah.(1aughs) SR:That's how serious it was.Because they don't,they don't play up here on the East Coast.They don't like for to have arguments in their places.Don't_you know the place could get closed down? It's serious,you know.Antagonize...so he's made some enemies up here and I don't know how far they will go to contain it.what they did say is they don't unintelligib1e,you know,so he's just a tired old man and we think he's kind of...‘cause I didn't let him play the first set. PH:0h,really? SR:Yeah.He(the club owner)didn't want Danny,either.I will not have,I don't like the arguments and things like that so Danny really wasn't responsible,(he)hadn't done anything unintelligible the manager.And then Ronald went(said) don't be sending nobody to tell me nothing like that.I want to talk to you(Sun Ra) after...I don't have time to be talking to you because Danny has the money,he's the manager so you supposed to respect him. 13 He went(said),I don't want to be treated like a child and un- intelligible.He went out.well,I say,you don't run this band.You can't be telling me,as a leader you can't be telling me what to do.Because you don't do that to 1eaders.You do what the leader said.You don't be telling leaders do this and do that.Now,that may unintelligible a leader to leader.See,l can't have that.I say I'm not Reverend King or none of them other people who came along who had people to tell them what they wanted to do but I say you ain't paying me nothing and therefore you shouldn't be saying those things to me. PH:well,it seems like Ronald might need a break or something,you know. ’ SR:I think he should come back there. PH:That might be good. SR:Maybe you could tell his family or something that...up here... he's not too well liked.He's made a few enemies.Should get him away from up here untill he gets himself together.I don't want nothing to happen to him. PH:Well,that's too bad to hear about that. SR:It is.But in the music world today you can't get anywhere being belligerent. PH:0h,that's so true. SR:That's out.I heard that in Los Angeles some...some people supposed to perform...and they supposed to but they paid them. six thousand dollars not to.Some group.They paid this person that they felt unpleasant(to)them six thousand dollars not to perform.So it's coming down to a place where a person play ever so much horn and all that and if they acting anti—social,anti- leader and they're to a point with a group they not going to be playing'cause they not going to stand for it.The system can't afford to have those kind of people doing(that).They got too many troubles.Everybody have to learn how to cooperate,now.America,in particular,got so many troubles,it's ridiculous. PH:Yeah,you're not kidding. SR:They're not liked in the rest of the world.and it's because they're proud.That goes for the black ones and the white ones. They so proud untill the world has turned against them because of their pride. PH:Yeah,that's true. 14 SR:Pride rides before a fall.So,then the black ones here are proud and the white ones are proud.Either ones who are poor, really,are proud and that ain't no good'cause you can't make no friends being proud.You can't do that.You make friends by being warm,you know,and by not being poor towards them.So,you know,it's a big crisis in America.You got hate groups,anti-black groups.One more springing up in Philadelphia and in the whole United States.That doesn't make me feel too good being here,too. PH:What's happening with Europe and Egypt? SR:we leaving next week. PH:what date? SR:That's what I don't know yet.what date do they send the tickets over.They don't like have...get the tickets from here. The tickets come from overseas.That's the part I don't like too well.But,you know,they be trying to save money'cause I'd have to pay for those tickets if,well,unless it's otherwise stipu- lated.And so,therefore,they send economy tickets.They can do that from Europe from some kind of way.Economy tickets.So,maybe they buy the tickets...a month ahead or something like that.I don't have the money to do it so this way the tickets,they always come in.But,you know,sometimes they come in the day before.Sometimes they mail them.I don't like that part.But the point of it;that we will be going.And the first place we'll play will be Paris.I thought we was going to play in Germany only because we got a German booking agent.But we playing in Paris. PH:And what day is that? SR:The twentieth and twenty first. Conversation continues in srr nineteen,page five.The date that appears in srr nineteen is incorrect.The correct date is November '10.1986. 15 Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...August l2,l986....... Peter Hinds:These people are interested in playing when you come to Los Ange1es.And these people being Billy Higgins... Sun Ra:He don't never be there when I'm there,though. PH:Last year he was playing the same night you guys were playing on that saturday.So,unfortunately,he was playing with Horace Tapscott... SR:well,I got to have somebody for San Francisco and they don't have no drummers there.This other drummer I had there.he's one of the money men and so,therefore,he wouldn't go to Los Angeles with us.So,then,we saved a lot of money.I don't need that kind. I got some drummers that's not like that.The main thing is having the money to bring them out there.Last night,I mean,we had three drummers. PH:who was that? SR:Buster Smith and Boogaloo(Marvin Smith,Buster’s Brother)and Thomas Hunter.And I got Eddie here.He plays...Eddie Thomas and I really got four drummers,now.But I just use three...on the weekend. PH:I remember seeing you out here.You brought three drummers out here in '81 or something like that at the Old waldorf.I remember that.Anyway,just getting back to Brendan there,quickly,he was saying,like,Bi1ly Higgins would be available,possib1y in Los Angeles. SR:Yeah,that's just for Los Angeles.what am I going to do about San Francisco? PH:well,my only suggestion is to talk to Ronald(wilson)about it ‘cause he knows all the drummers around. SR:Yeah,but everybody can't fit in the band now.They have to be psychologically balanced on a spiritual plane.Things have changed quite a bit‘cause I'm getting better reaction from people who are spiritually correct.Even like in Philadelphia I have response like never before because I have brought the band down to a spiritually correct point.'Cause if I have anybody in there that is money minded it's not going to reach people.It's come to that stage.It's not going to reach them.I can play ever so much but it's like you got some dirt on the line,(an)electric line and you really got static.And that's the way it is now.If I have anybody on that stage that is not spiritually correct,it's going to be static.People are going to hear it and not hear it.It'll be like water going off a duck's back.It's reached that point.But if you got people up there who are pure minded...it’s fantastic what can happen.I mean,I proved it in Philadelphia.Last time we played 16 here and I'm going to prove it again monday night.All you need is purity among musicians.The ones who are unselfish.The ones who are playing not for the money.Who play because they love it and because they have to.That is what's needed in this band. Anything else up there are wasting my time.I have done it in the past,have some people up there and they good musicians but,the people can't hear their music.But,they able to hear now'cause, like,some people be playing with me(for)some time.I bypassed them now.I'm not going to use them any more. PH:well,it certainly makes a difference when everyone is on the same wavelength,like you say and everyone is working together. SR:well,that makes it more difficult for me,you see,to have the type of musicians I need.It makes it difficult because if I don't have the money to pay them...See,what they'd have to do,like, Billy Bang played with us this weekend. PH:Oh,is that right? SR:Yeah,so,you know,he got his own group.But,he played with us and everybody(was)surprised....we got two nice write ups(reviews) and they said I Shangheid Billy Bang.It was a totally different aspect and I'll be doing that from now on like,I might come out there and bring some more stars that they got their own bands. See,in New York I be doing that.I haven't done it on the west Coast'cause I'm never sure enough of the money to do it'cause they have to give up their thing and to come over with me.I can get Don Cherry.You see,(in)New York I'm able to do that. PH:I'd love to see Don Cherry with you guys.That would be just beautiful. SR:Of course it would.And those are the things I want to do now. I don't want to deal with people who...1ike,I'm trying to help a lot of people and they were very disappointed'cause they had these egos.When they learned a little bit they became very egotistical. PH:Yeah,that's too bad people can't set aside their ego and just go with the music.I mean,they got plenty of time to do their own thing.I would consider that these guys should think of it as an honor to be in the Arkestra and contribute.Just contribute to , your ideas and they got plenty of time to do their own thing. It doesn't make any sense to me why just people can't put themselves into the collective,there.And really support and just help the music forward.whatever the music needs. SR:well,that's where I'm at now.with the world in too dreadful a state to hesitate.It's now or never.It's as simple as that. 17 .. NOT EVERY MUSICIAN CAN FIT IN THIS BAND. YOU KNOW, IT'S METICULOUS. NOTES HAVE TO BE ATTACKED A CERTAIN WAY AND IF THEY DON'T I s1'o|> PLAYING THE SONG. " 'CAUSE IT HAS TO . . . IT'S GOT TO BE PRECISE. SUN RA SEPT. 1986 * ‘ i ‘»-*“’ : ;??‘‘I’‘7*‘~»:’* US’ 5‘ aL'£..%.’A'.V Auglbbﬁws LI . /. C 4; WHERENESS THE bEAuTy Of THOUOHT THE iNfiNjTy THERE NOWHERE is AS NEAR AS I TO ANywHERE EvERywHREE iS THE SAME FROM SOME pOiNT iN THOUOHT :ANd THE SAME pOiNT iS iN SOME THOUOHT FROM EvERywHERE THIS CREATOR WOULD BE ELIMINATING FOLKS THAT BE AGAINST ME. GET RID OF THEM. SO “UNINTELLIGIBLE." THIS IS NOT A PLAY THING. LIKE IN CHICAGO. A DRUMMER PLAYING (WITH) ME NAMED JAMES KING AND HE WAS A WONDERFUL DRUMMER. I'M TELLING YOU HE WAS SOMETHING. BUT MUSICIANS ARE ALWAYS ASKING ME QUESTIONS. THAT'S ONE THING IN CHICAGO. AND ONE DAY WE, ONE MORNING WE (WERE) PLAYING A BIRTHDAY DANCE AT BIRDLAND AND ABOUT TWENTY FIVE MUSICIANS ASKED ME QUESTIONS AFTER PLAYING. THEY WAS ALWAYS ASKING ME QUESTIONS. I SAID SOMETHING AND THE DRUMMER WHO WAS PLAYING WITH US NAMED IAMES KING SAID. “NO. I DIDN'T LIKE." AND THEN THE OTHER MUSICIANS SAID, “MAN, YOU PLAYED WITH THE BAN "§%w§&."§’§ YQUR I.EADE;R. YGU GOT A
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-20
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 21 (February, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-02-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: VVIIEN ANGBS SPEAK mmsanmuawuutxwumurnmm wnwmclwulummlmr ummmwwuuuzlumuns muoluntmmnuummuupwwm. Illllﬂﬂﬂﬂﬂﬁlllﬂ ‘ U-lﬁfdlﬁﬂl! DNWMMﬂ¢ QﬂENm. umsusp av pm ms; 4 r 6; to {j “ T H {I DSIN; : 0-. ’ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Bruce Owens(The Poet) October 3l,1988...One AM...Santa Cruz,California............ Sun Ra:Piano can talk,you know. John Hindsznow about Art Tatum?Did you ever hear that Beautiful Love?! sent you Art Tatum doing Beautiful Love. SR:0h yeah.I used to listen to that.I didn't know the song at that time.I didn't know it had words to anything but it was very nice,you know.You have to,you have to listen to it'cause it's sort of classical in one sense but it's timeless you might say. Victor Young wrote that and he wrote a lot of other beautiful songs.I'm doing a lot of things about for musicians who wrote beautiful things.we got to bring them back.Like Cole Porter, Jerome Kern.They wrote some very beautiful melodies and America didn...
Show moreVVIIEN ANGBS SPEAK mmsanmuawuutxwumurnmm wnwmclwulummlmr ummmwwuuuzlumuns muoluntmmnuummuupwwm. Illllﬂﬂﬂﬂﬂﬁlllﬂ ‘ U-lﬁfdlﬁﬂl! DNWMMﬂ¢ QﬂENm. umsusp av pm ms; 4 r 6; to {j “ T H {I DSIN; : 0-. ’ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Bruce Owens(The Poet) October 3l,1988...One AM...Santa Cruz,California............ Sun Ra:Piano can talk,you know. John Hindsznow about Art Tatum?Did you ever hear that Beautiful Love?! sent you Art Tatum doing Beautiful Love. SR:0h yeah.I used to listen to that.I didn't know the song at that time.I didn't know it had words to anything but it was very nice,you know.You have to,you have to listen to it'cause it's sort of classical in one sense but it's timeless you might say. Victor Young wrote that and he wrote a lot of other beautiful songs.I'm doing a lot of things about for musicians who wrote beautiful things.we got to bring them back.Like Cole Porter, Jerome Kern.They wrote some very beautiful melodies and America didn't awake to how wonderful they were.I'm doing their songs in another way. . JH:Yeah,Beautiful Love.I wasn't aware of it untill you did it and- then I did my homework and found Art Tatum doing it and a few other versions.Beautiful,you know. SR:And Yesterdays.I didn't play it tonight but Yesterdays is one of my favorite songs.Jerome Kern wrote a lot of nice things.I'm putting them over into hot jazz arrangement. Poet:I saw Leadbelly,you know....(laughs) JH:How about Chelsea Bridge? SR:Chelsea Bridge is nice,too. JH:That's wonderful harmonies on that. Poet:This guy(JH)is,like,recording you,man. SR:Yeah. Poet:It's like everything that's being said is,like,being happening on his,1ike,hear that?(Recites poem) SR:Nice.That's just nice.Now,unintelligible talk about the black hole(poem had a reference to black holes)and then the black hole be...it's intriguing.All that out there is intriguing.You know, it's impossible some of the things out there when you think about it.You know,I had this vision about two months ago...was I in Japan or Germany? Poet:A dream? Sr:well,it was like a vision.I was in this...I was up there in the darkness.It was so dark I couldn't see anything and I was walking and I kept on walking then all at once I saw some colors that was nothing like here.It was so red that in the darkness you could see everything but the darkness still there but the colors over there were vibrating so and there were things,I don't know what it was but the colors was something e1se.Now,I had another vision where I saw...I went in a big department store.The department store was so big untill you couldn't see the sides of it.Anyway you look you couldn't see no...just the roof and kinds of things.And I had...it was some socks there that were like...precious jewelry but not like nothing they got here. It was extremely precious and you could put...it would fit any- body.You put it on and it would be like your skin.And they had some pants that was the same thing.It would fit anybody.You'd put it on and you'd be just like a person made out of jewelry. And I said,"You know,I should get this for the band.How much do these stockings(cost)?"And they said two hundred dollars.And I said,"well,I want to see about some pants."They said five hun- dred dollars.Then I came back.(from the vision)But I did say, "where am I?"They said Brazil.I said,"Brazil ain't got nothing like this."Brazil unintelligible.There's nothing like that on planet earth.I had that...so,I seen some things that(are)not in any books.I'm really not describing what I saw because it can't be described because there's no comparison to what they got out there.And I've seen some dancers in space that were like trees. They were so ta11...dancing...dancing.wonderful,you know.Every time I see a poplar tree I think about those dancers.So,some- times,I mean,when I got the band right I be doing those dances I seen up in space with the music.Moving like the wind.Like the wind and like the ocean and that's what I'm doing in my music. I want to be like the ocean and like the wind and like the trees and like the bit s.That's part of nature,you see,And then I saw, §_gj V é:“; ,e . _H%$$ykkHﬁ_ and one day,I think I was in Spain,and it was some grass out there and it was about like that ta11.It was one blade of grass that was doing like this...I took the band...the wind wasn't blowing.I took the band and said,"Look at that,the blade of grass unintelligible."Now,there's no explanation for that.The other blades of grass was just as tall but one was doing like that. (moving back and forth)....we11,I saw that blade of grass.And if we open are eyes we can see things other people can't see.If you speak unintelligible.The unusual speaks to us and say,you know, yes there's something e1se.And whenever a person see the unusual they ready.But if... Poet:Jesus!You look(like)a genie.(Sun Ra and the poet laugh) SR:Well,I had all these experiences.I had some experiences... Poet:what's your name again(joking)?I'm Bruce Owens. SR:Sun Ra.You know,somebody asked me...a lot of people ask me, what's your real name?I say,well,my passport of the United States government got Sun Ra and the Library of Congress they got a card that say where,strange1y enough,his real name is Sun Ra and all the rest of the names are pseudonyms.And this(is in)the Library of Congress. Bruce 0wens:where are you originally from,though? SR:Well,I'm from planet Saturn.But I landed in Birmingham, Alabama.(they both laugh) B0:where? SR:I landed in Birmingham.In the magic city.They had a big sign up there.Magic city.That was Birmingham,Alabama.The magic city. And,in fact,this fellow who was sitting down and wanting to talk (earlier in the evening)was from Birmingham. B0:So how the hell did you get into jazz to begin with,man? Come on,man.There's an original point,man,of conception. SR:I wanted to find out why this planet is like it is.And I felt that people worshiping God that something...that he doesn't re- gard nothing they doing. B0:when did you get free? SR:well,then what happenend is that...they wouldn't teach me about jazz in school.And...when I was a baby in the cradle my people liked Bessie Smith,Clara Smith,Mamie Smith and that's what they were p1aying.But as I grew up I didn't know nothing about that.But,you know,it's in my mind and they were playing Coleman Hawkins,Fletcher Henderson.They's playing all those things.And Ethel waters and then I grew up where I had found I had been listening to some great people and we were staying next door to a house where Bessie Smith(and)everybody stayed in that house.They didn't stay in hotels... B0:where was that house? SR:It was in Birmingham. JH:Do you remember the street?Is the street still there? SR:Yes.Eighth Avenue.Eighth Avenue and Thirty Third Street or something 1ike(that).But,anyway,they was in this house and everybody stayed there that was an entertainer.we was right next door.So then they always gave us passes.So we always went,you know.So I was acquainted with them but I was just seven and eight and nine years old.I didn't know nothing but then I come to find out Ethel Waters was great,Bessie Smith was great.Clara Smith,Mamie Smith...I was right there with all of them.So then that's all that's in me. JH:I wonder if you saw Coleman Hawkins with Mamie Smith... SR:He was with Fletcher Henderson. JH:At that time.That(Mamie Smith)wou1d be earlier then. BO:what age were you conscious? SR:About five,five years old. B0:Really conscious,huh? SR:You can't learn anything in that... B0:I mean,I understand that. SR:But when you poor that means you're elevated from...we1l,you touch the eternal stone...because an ordinary man,he hasn't touched upon,he hasn't touched upon that mysterious thing which inspires him to be musical in words.And poetry is really wonder- ful.I liked...I studied all the English poets.I read Shakespeare. I studied Russian literature,especially...but I didn't know what I was doing.I just liked to read.I read so much in the library.I read all the fiction and I had to jump over into reading auto- biographies and things. JH:what school did you say?That was in your elementary school? SR:This was the public 1ibrary.I was always...and you know(I was) always in school.I was teaching because,see,I make research... teacher give me an assignment.I go there and read more books.I come back to class I know more than the teacher. B0:But if the lineage presents itself to you... SR:lt would be space. BO:It is...will always be but you got to understand something, see?They've broken it down into a chemical process and I am in disagreement with them because I believe...that consciousness... conscious mind...I mean,universities are,like,proclaiming as kind of like a binomial....(????) SR:wel1,we got to deal with the Omniverse now. BO:Heideger said that the poet exists so beings exists so.. SR:Yeah,l'm talking about being.I've reached a stage where life is...to me,1ife only produces dead bodies.I have to judge the tree by the fruit(Bruce Owens starts laughing)...we need some- thing else.Life is...1ife got starving babies and it's got... BO:Here's one for...I was in Alaska and I was,1ike,standing on the docks of Kodiak Island,right?I was looking over...over this mountain,right?This volcanic thing popping up out of the gulf of Alaska.So 1 spoke with the A1euts,right?I drank wine with them and I wrote this poem.In the clear distance I see mountain peaks covered with white shawls an old woman left when they pass from this world into the next. SR:That's nice....We got to go now.Jack(Rich)is here and he's the manager and he got a lot of things to do for tomorrow. B0:So they're in control of you,huh? SR:No.Tomorrow we got to play San Francisco and he flew all the down from New York... BO:I don't give a shit about San Francisco!I'm more curious about talking with you. SR:We11,I enjoyed talking to you. BO:No,because I heard through the grapevine that you're the greatest.In jazz now,you are. SR:Thank you. Conversation with Sun Ra and Peter Hinds...February l4,1986...... Sun Ra:I was talking to Pat Patrick. Peter Hinds:Pat Patrick? SR:Uh huh. PH:what was he saying? SR:we1l,he playing with us...He's played with us the last tour and he's here now.we-going to Harrisburgh(Pennsylvania)tomorrow. PH:Great!He went up to Toronto with you? SR:Yeah,he was there. PH:Good.So you had the two baritones. SR:No,he usually plays bass. PH:Oh,you mean bass guitar? SR:You know.Electric bass. PH:I see. SR:And then he plays...tomorrow he playing the tenor. ' PH:when did you talk to him about coming back and playing? SR:I didn't. PH:He just decided? SR:Yes. PH:That's fantastic.I've never had a chance to see him. SR:Yeah,well,you will now. PH:That's great.I wasn't able to talk with Rona1d(wilson)today. SR:You weren't? PH:No,I called and left a message telling him to call me,very important and maybe he didn't get it or whatever but he...I didn't get the ca1l.what I am going to do tomorrow...I’m going to get up real early and drive to his place(in San Francisco)... SR:well,you probably could...tomorrow's saturday so you still could get the tape.I thought maybe I'd have it,you know,for tom- orrow unintelligible... \ ——:—e*—————:j :ej:j PH:You should have,if everything worked. SR:well,I started to send it by mail but I unintelligible.Just send it by him.He would get it immediately,you know. PH:So we'll go up there and see if we can get in touch with him. we should be able to see him.We're going to drive up about ten o'clock in the morning. SR:Well,I thought you were going to see him last night. PH:No,it would be a chance(because) he was supposed to be playing last night somewhere.I don't know where. SR:Oh,I thought you knew where. PH:No,I didn't.No,he just said he was playing with ...he had to hang up after about two minutes.I really didn't have a chance to talk very long with him at all to find out what was going on with specifics. SR:That was some nice write ups(reviews)you sent. PH:0h yeah.That one from the Bay Area Music Calender with your photo and everyone in the band got a mention.That was very nice. SR:Well,you still didn't get the things from Toronto.I thought you'd have them by then. PH:we1l,Ronald(wilson)has those. SR:Yeah,he got that from the other places,too. PH:Yeah,so that's what I'm hoping(for)tomorrow.I‘11 be able to see him and I probably will.He'll probably be at home at ten in the morning. SR:well,the Ronald thing is fantastic,you know.They put every- thing I was saying in there and something,something unintellig- gible.I got a letter from France today,too. PH;From France? SR:And it was astounding,you know....I told you about that when we come over there. PH:Oh yeah.Now,is this the proposal? SR:Yeah.they talking about giving me...charge of all the arts. The whole thing.The painters,the sculptors,the unintelligible. The top level of musicians and whatever.It's fantastic letter, you know.I wasn't expecting all that.I be in charge of all the arts in France. PH:Now,is this set for May or_something like that? SR:That's the unintelligible of culture,the government. PH:So what's their timetable? SR:well,they talking about we being there three years.This project I have is the twenty first century.Twenty first century creativity for France.I couldn't do it in America,in a sense. I was trying and people like me here but it's better for me,I found that it's better for a government to back me‘up because they can get all the things I need,you know.Synthesizers,this and that and the other and I need some musicians to work with. Over here they be so uptight with different things(that)they can't come to rehearsals like that but this is a case where the government will furnish me musicians. PH:Did you see the article?That(what Sun Ra's talking about) sort of ties in with that article I sent you... - SR:Yes. Pﬂinbout Pierre Boulez. SR:0h yeah,that's in France.Yeah,they was talking-about that but, evident1y,that wasn't exactly what they wanted.They want to deal with compositions of unintelligible of natural musicians(with)- electronics...what they need is,real1y.a composer and arranger. That's the way I fit in'cause I got so many compositions that I utterly astound myself when I be listening to some things I got. That's what 1've’heen listening(to)today.Fantastic sounds and, you know,it's a big job. Pﬂzcertainly is. SR:But I can do it.I just have to have,I have to have me about two interpreters...it's~incredible.But I'm very shocked myself that a government would be that interested in what I'm doing and talking about... PH:That's commendable. SR:I don't think that's ever been done before.Particularly'cause I'm from another country. PH:Yeah,that's unusual. SR:Right. PH:I know the government gave Mr.Boulez quite a bit to work with(IRCAM)there in that institute but he's French of course... So this is a different... SR:We1l,he don't the have American hot jazz.I got that.And France likes the hot jazz.Some kind of way I be blocked,you see. Like,they was supposed to put that record out about,you know. the(Phil)Alvin of the Blasters. PH:Yeah,what's happening with that? SR:They haven't put it out yet. PH:I know. SR:So,you know,(it's)blocked,you know.Al1 kind of blocks and that's really a good record.It really would make him unintelli- . gible,hesitating and all that so it's best for me is to just go on to France then I...unintelligib1e...keep on moving.Here it's kind of difficult here.Like Bill Cosby,he had all them folks on i there and he right here in Philadelphia.He knows about me and he didn't include me in that(a concert with Art Blakey and others) but that's all right.I don't need him. PH:I missed that,unfortunately. SR:I just need myself.I didn't know nothing about it but I see Art Blakey on there and a lot of other people.But unintelligible,p I don't need him.If I have a government behind me I don't need his kind.And it's good for me and...and then I would have Ger- many,if I could go to Europe I'd have all of these European countries backing me up.Well,I could teach jazz musicians over there about doing that'cause that's something they can't do.Al— ways tried to imitate me but you can't do that.So,it‘s time,you know,I’m ready to go now but I got a few more dates... PH:You going to play New York... SR:I play there on the fourth....and Basil....playing the‘ University of Illinois....I got a few more dates...supposed to be with John Cage but,you know,they move it to June and I don't like that too well.I reckon they move it to where the weather...is better'cause it's supposed to be out in Coney Island.So,things like John Cage is very pleased to be with me. But I was thinking about making a record with him and I just got to get his number. PH:with John Cage?That would be interesting.Are you going to get together and talk_with him a little bit before? SR:well,I'm going to talk to him and we just go to a studio... and make it. PH:And do something. SR:That would be fantastic. PH§That would be. 4! . SR:I was thinking about it and I'm going to put it into action. PH:well,he's right in Manhattan,isn't he?.' SR:Yeah,he's somewhere there.I reckon I can find out from this fellow who's...some kind of arts club.I can find out from him how to get in touch with him.I think he's be interested.I am.’ Even if I put it out on cassette or somewhere,he and I discussing music.It still would sell. I PH:Oh yeah.That's right.That would be quite a meeting of the minds,I tell you. » SR:why,we could make a video together.That would be interesting. -well,it's a lot of possibilities I can unintelligible do that. ‘Cause I've reached on past just the...you know,the ordinary. That's out.Some of these tapes I got just rehearsing,you'd be astounded.Just rehearsing. I PH:Some things you've been working on recently? SR:No,I'm talking about through the years.Now,what I do,I just reach in and get a tape,a cassette...well,I finally get around to them...and I got so many things that(are)really unintelli- gible...So that's what I'm going to do,you see.And,like,I need a outlet or something else'cause a government could do it. Like,I could take my tapes over there and acquaint them to what I've been doing for years.Like conservatories and different things.The whole thing would be a whole different image for France.It ought to be America but then what can I do? > It's very.......America.....well,it's got too many conflicts of interest,I suppose.well,it will come over here from Europe. But they going to give me a villa they say and I won't have to pay no rent and then I'll be lecturing at the conservatories. Have the whole thing,you know. - PH:That'll be amazing. Sk:Fantastic. PH:That is.You'll have access to some really beautiful pianos. SR:Oh,yeah.That's one thing,yes,I give concerts with twenty or fifty pianos...I got so many ideas I just need the outlet. PH:Have you ever done a concert,(with)maybe,two pianos back to back...where you can play two at once? SR:we were supposed to do that in Los Angeles once at a concert there at the University of California.You know,sometimes fate steps...what happened is the night before,I think,Cannonball Adderley or somebody p1ayed...the night before some teenagers went up and they was trying to get down into the something up there.The air vent‘or something and they triggered the fire (alarm).water,it wet the space all up.The firemen came and \ 10 II turned all the electricity off.They had to cancel the concert. So we came the nextynight(and)they were afraid to turn the electricity on.They had these two long pianos.that Paul Bley was going to be at one and I was going to be at the other.You know,but fate intervened.Shelley Manne was there...about five or six more white musicians.That would have been something.It didn't happen.we had these two 1ong,I mean these was some long pianos.Going to be back to back.So something stepped in and stopped it.It's better for me to be somewhere where I won't be blocked.I don't know why jazz has been so severly blocked in / America.I can't understand it.They getting ready to put up a rock palace in Philadelphia.The home of rock.Rock and roll. But they putting up nothing for jazz.(chuckles)So I can see that jazz is being just dismissed.Particularly like big bands, you know.which I really like big bands.They tend to neglect that particular thing.No need for me to be fighting it by my- self.So I can go over there and I can have what I,want.And what I need,too. PH:Speaking of pianos,included in some of the stuff we sent you, is.a little information regarding a sustain peddle you can buy for your(Yamaha)DX-7.That will give you a piano action with your feet.I think it's about twenty five dollars. . SR:Really? PH"Yeah.So that will give you a real true piano setup,you know. SR:They got it up here so you can find out wether they got it there. , V PH:0K.You take a look at the literature and John's underlined it in yellow so take a look at that and you'll find the description that'll tell you about it and we'll check it out and see who's got one out here. . a ' ‘ SR:wel1,I hope he(Ronald wilson)give you that money so I can get that together.. a _‘ ‘ ‘ PH:Yeah,I hope so too.You know,I'll go up there tomorrow morning. what time are you leaving tomorrow? SR:I'm leaving at six in the morning. PH:OK.I'll call you sunday.You'll be back sunday what time? SR:I'l1 be back,well,we...we1l,I'll be back about twelve noon or maybe before then'cause we leaving at midnight.It‘s not but a two hour or three hour drive so we'll just gauge itself like that.You can also find out how much is a TX-7 cost.The module. I can get a thousand effects with this.Already got the cassette to go in there.Some kind of way you put together the-cassette tape recorder,which I got a computer cassette recorder and you. plug that into the module and someway you get one thousand(and) one effects.But up here it costs about six hundred dolars or something like that.If you could investigate how much you could get it for there. PH:0K.I'll check that out. PH:Is anyone else playing in the band?Have you added anybody else to these dates?You mentioned Boogaloo on drums... Sun Ra:His name is Marvin Smith....well,you know,he stayed in Rome for some time in Italy.But he's really...you'll be very pleased with him.He's got a sense of humor,too.It's too bad, you know,I should have sent for him when I was out there(SF). I started to...but I didn't.Unintelligible didn't have any drums.He left his drums...but I'm telling you,he really is playing. _ ‘ PH:And he fits in well with all the Fletcher Henderson things and all that? SR:He fits in with everything.And then he's good...he takes wonderful solos and he swings and that's what I need.He got a sense of humor,too.Just one thing he's worried about.The fellas be telling him about the Ra fire.(chuckles)It was the funniest thing.He said,"we1l,I want to see what it is.Whether I like it. (1aughs)."They said,"You don't want no Ra fire."So finally, Tyrone(Hill)did something and when he(Marvin Smith)saw what I was telling Tyrone he said,"Well,I don't like the Ra fire.I don't want it."(laughs)It was really funny.It was so amusing. PH:And is John Ore playing bass? SR:Yes.That's right,he didn't come out there(SF)with us. PH:No,it was just Tyler(Mitchell). I SR:He(John Ore)rea1ly playing.The next time we'll see what we can 'do.Ronald was talking about some fellow out there that wanted to come and play.But he never wrote to us.... PH:Sounds very promising now.Sounds like things are coming to—’ gether for that France project. SR:well,music needs to be out there to the full unintelligible, you know.It hasn't been there because musicians have difficulty. They have,you know,financial problems and this and that.Some—~ times they get it,sometimes they can't.But over there they'd be getting a salary and I could have fifty pieces in my band. 12 SR:There's a lot of musicians be stealing-my ideas and making people think it's them but if I got unintelligible musicians to work with everybody will know where it's coming from....Then the music will be written and I will copyright everything to put it on the world market. ‘ And that way I be having,not only would I be teaching the music— , ians in France but the ones all over the world'cause they would 1 get the sheet music,analyze and study.well,that's what I have to 7 do next. PH:Any new records coming out? SR:I'm going to work on it.There are some records coming from England.I don't think you got that record. PH:I found that one on Recommended. SR:what was the name of that? PH:The Cosmo-Sun Connection. SR:Yeah,I think that may be it.That's got my picture on there. Yeah,that's the one.That's a nice album.I don't have one myself. PH:I managed to find one copy up in San Francisco.They got it in on import.And I also managed to get a copy of the thing in Atlanta,Georgia with the organ. SR:Oh,really.How'd you like that? PH:The recording was,you know,fair,but the music was ...I mean that is fantastic. SR:That is a big organ. PH:That is incrediblellt really is.The percussion,the gongs(and) the drums. SR:Yeah,you know,June just heard that last week.(She)said she put it on(and)she was startled,you know. PH:Oh,it is.It is truly incredible. SR:And the longer you listen to that the more sounds...The organ had so many sounds.Layers of sounds.So it's out there and now they know...it's really,I got so much to offer.It runs over into the fantastic but if I had a big band to work with I'd have to need a lot of copyists,you know,where they could write off these things I tell them.Going to need machines,too.The kind that,the computer machines(that will)type out the music.Get(it)out to the world.I'm ready for that,now. PH:Yeah,that‘s right.But that organ extravaganza is amazing. SR:You got the right name to that.Hiroshima. PH:Did you record that on your videotape machine? SR:No,it was recorded...well Danny(Thompson)does have a video tape.Some kind of digital cassette recorder.That's something new. And then it was taken off of that.I think it was put on directly from the cassette. PH:Oh,I see.'Cause it could have sounded a little bit better. SR:Right.That is why.He(DT)didn't have no original,he had a copy of the digital cassette.So,but the feeling is there.It could have been more...something could have been done to it.But,then,I just wanted it out there. PH:Yeah.It goes for about fifteen minutes and fades out.How long did you actually play with that organ? SR:I played a lot longer.But,you know,by being an organ I cut it kind of short to put it out because the fact of the grooves.The vibrations might make it jump...(Speaking of the limitations of vinyl records) PH:That's right.I was just...I heard that and I thought there's got to be more to that and I'm glad to hear there is. SR:we1l,if it's on tape,you see,it doesn't matter too much about, maybe a little wow or something,but when you put it on disc you got to watch those grooves'cause it will jump over...organs are very hard to record.I mean to take off(To transfer from tape to disc in the mastering process).So he had,he had to make that about five or six times'cause he wasn't satisfied when he was unintelligible. PH:You can get only get,like,twenty minutes on a side of a record or SO00! SR:That's right. PH:And that organ was making such incredible sounds(Especially the low frequencies which can cause problems in the disc master- ing),you know. SR:The grooves are far apart on there,you see,and that's why he had to cut it short. PH:Yeah,that's right.I understand.So I was just hoping,I thought there's got to be more so I'm glad there is more on the tape. SR:Oh yeah,well,I had quite a bit of it.In fact,I'm going to have to put the video out that Danny has where I'm playing the organ. PH:You really should.Sight and sound would be... SR:Lack of money is what's been barring me.what I need is like an unintelligible circuit of people who are interseted in what I'm doing.I have to do that and.then it won't have to be just on the regular market.It can be part of an unintelligible jazz club or fan club,whatever it is.It would be better for me. PH:You should do a mail order kind of thing and put out a little catalogue and when you get orders you can just make... SR:I can do that,too.That's what they be doing on TV.Maybe two weeks to delivery or something like that so what they do is they get the orders and then they fix them up. PH:That's right. SR:Yeah,that's a good idea. PH:'Cause when you do your concerts you can bring along your albums but also bring along a flyer to hand out to everybody indicating what's available in records,tapes or videos and people could send in and when you get your orders you can just make them up and all that money would just be coming directly, you know,into your mailbox. SR:It's a big project. PH:I know Danny is very pusy,it would be one more thing to keep him more than busy.You'd have to have a little assistance,you know. SR:You'd have to have a lot of assistance because it's so big that Danny gets nervous,he can't keep up because it's stretching out even more.He was really startled by the French thing.He didn't think it would go out that big.Unintel1igible where you dealing with unintelligible,politicians and governments.That's another story,you know.You got to learn something about French, too.Need interpreters,you know.It's amazing.I'm very happy about it,excited about it.So I can see the potentia1s.The potentials are so vast.It's wonderful to think that the government would be interested where I couldn't get commercial folks interested. 15 r::- .._;‘;;;:;-x _‘-v ‘-.,.:i»£;;L'_’_ ..L\‘~.“:_.. 2.22..‘ ..-‘H-‘ Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds.............. 16’1986000OOOOOOIIIIOOOOOOOOOO0000000000000OOOOOOOOOIOOO Sun Ra:I'm not asking America for anything.They don't owe me anything.I'm not mad with anybody.It's just too bad that all these years they missed what I'm doing.Even with the records I put out,the other things I didn't put out are more valuable. John Hinds:Yes.Some of those tapes are probably getting quite old and maybe brittle. SR:They might just not ever be of use to this planet. JH:They might tend to fall apart which would be horrible. SR:That's right.well,yes that is possible.So,see,if the French government have it,they'1l preserve it and they will re—copy it and they can give me the machines to work with.I need all that at this point,you see.I need the best equipment they have. Recorders and,like this fellow,he was telling me about(that)he got all that.So,he got everything to work with so he's rich and I'm a pauper so I don't see why a pauper should go and talk to a rich person.It would discourage me.And here's somebody(that) got everything to work with and I have nothing to work with. I wouldn't want to be discouraged. JH:All I know is he(Pierre Boulez)really showed admiration for you and had heard of you and I said(that)you were going to be in France and he said,"Oh,marvelous,if he would just stop by." ‘Cause he doesn't know where you'd be. SR:I'm dealing with the Creator of the Universe.It's not proper to open peoples minds up to something which they probably could never(be)interested by.Not any more.They dealing with God and other things and devils and stuff.I'm not dealing with that. So,then,my time can no longer be wasted with those who(are) not going to make it.They might make it on the Earth plane and be accepted by the whole world but they not accepted by the Creator I worship.And I'm not going to unintelligible anybody.It's very difficult to reach him.It's more difficult than reaching the President of the United States.He's very exclusive.Now,he got a lot of other things out there to interest people because of their limited vision and they still over there untill they get bored with it and want something better.So most people are satisfied with money or sex or dope or power or ego and therefore they can't reach the Creator I'm talking about.Because it's another story.You take,like,Pat(Patrick).when we got ready to play last night(February 15,l986.Harrisburgh,Pennsy1vania)he couldn't move his...some fingers and thumb because unintelligible be able to play.Because something has happened,that he slepped on his arm on the bus going down there...and so...he be saying,"See,I can't, I can't move this thumb and finger here.My arm hasn't awakened yet,seemingly?So then I had to heal him instantly by taking his sense in me going out there unintelligible to see who is no consequence to me or the Creator.It's a waste of my energy and time.But,then,it's like the case of Marshall(Allen)when he was in 0akland.0ne morning he couldn't walk.He was crawling and I had to go in there and say a few words to him)and)he stood up and unintelligible walked.Now,I'm dealing with a force that is so powerful I can even raise the dead.Now,he(Marshall) didn't go out there telling people things like that and doing things for people.I can't do it'cause I'm so busy,in a sense.to do things like that.I'm not a phony,I'm totally sincere.I can save this whole planet but,the point of it,if people are selfish(then) it's not right for me to save selfish people.I'm,even now,get- ting more restrictive as to the musicians I use.I don't want nobody selfish in this band.I don't care how much they play.It's bad for me to have a man down here,a woman,anybody who is sel— fish because it discourages me.And I don't need no discourage- ment.So then I got to have people around me who are,well,this band will be a...be more unusual because I have to be very care- ful as(to)who I'm using in this band'cause if they got the slightest degree of selfishness it's going to discourage me and make me feel that man is not worth saving.So,therefore,I know that some people are unselfish.I have to unintelligible by that; hand in mine.So he played.So,you see,with that kind of power it's no now.And therefore,the whole picture of this band is getting ready to change.It's getting ready to change.And It's getting ready to be more exclusive than ever.It will be the most exclusive organization that is ever been on planet Earth. Jﬂzwhen did you first come into contact with cosmic forces?Back in Chicago?Space beings or were you contacted in any kind of way sometime? SR:well,actually,I was ignorant of certain things.I didn't know myself.when I first...when I was a child I felt I came from some- where else and I was happy.I was inexpressively happy and I was pure and I thought everybody else was on this planet.So that put me at the mercy of some forces that were not friendly and they wasn't pure and they was antogonistic at me from the day I arrived on this planet.It was antagonistic and it did everything, even before I had a band,to discourage me unintelligib1e,it did everything it possibly aould to make me think I was nothing and I couldn't do anything(and)to make me feel some kind of shame. To flop,flop,flop.And I had that before I had a band.So...I was just listening to it and it wasn't just the white race because they didn't know nothing about me.It came from the black race (and)it came sometime from my grandmother.lt came,a lot of times, just unforeseen and I didn't know what the attack was.But I had this idea that I came from somewhere else and I was happy inside that I had come from somewhere else.And it stayed with me.It wasn't just a dream.It's from nowhere I came from,it's with me and it's still with me and I express that in my music.So,really, they couldn't do nothing to me'cause I've seen something they don't know nothing about and I express that in my music.So,the world can feel it and see it and they can be a part of it.But I'm not mad with anybody and I'm not against anybody because of their race,creed or color.It does not interest me at all because I can't...I was sent here to help this planet and that's it.That I have to do that and if I can't do it here I'll do it somewhere else. JH:So you were saying your grandmother was against that,too? SR:well,she just against me personally or something.You know, it was these forces.They used people who is supposed to be friends.But I understand a little better now that it wasn't them.It was some force that was determined to block me and to keep me from being succesful(and)to make me be ordinary(and)to make me seem like what I was doing was of no worth and it was trying to do that through the years.And when I tell some people about the rest of it they would say(I)have a good imagination. But it wasn't my imagination.It's not my imagination that I came from somewhere else.But,to discuss that with People is ridicu- lous.I don't have to discuss anything else with them about that. I'm not asking them to believe.I don't care.It's of no conse-* quence because the people on this planet...they have no unin- telligible and never have been to this power I'm talking about. So it does not care whether they believe or not.It does not care because it's eternal and their thing is here today and gone to- morrow.So why should somebody come to me?Unintelligible care about here today and gone tomorrow people.Actually,it doesn't have to.Because it's greater than men.And if they want something they have to reach up and recognize that power.It is not going to recognize them because they too small and too insignificant. well,their ego got them where they think they unintelligible. Those kind of people that went up in smoke shows that this power does not care.It does not care.Because they got to be precise and disciplined down here.And they got to recognize someone that's for them that was sent to help them and got the authority to help them.If they don't do that,well,here today and gon tomorrow.It's a very serious situation. JH:Yeah,they don't realize that.They don't see it.I don't know why they want to keep dying over and over again. SR:Well,it's because they refuse to recognize anything else better. JH:why they just want to keep dying and dying and dying,you know? SR:we1l,they got to be sincere.That's what it takes.Sincerity. I've had a lot of people write me who are sincere.From the deep south mostly.white people. JH:That's something. 18 SR:I haven't had any black ones from down there write me.I've got some of them from South Carolina,Atlanta,Georgia and Alabama. They're from white people who are supposed to be prejudiced and supposed to be the worst of discriminators.I can say that I've reached the hearts of those southerners.In Atlanta,Georgia they want me to come hack every year at new years and play their.So, and I got the keys to the city of Atlanta,Georgia so...what can I say? JH:George Wallace gave you recognition. SR:Right. PH:(Mayor)Andrew Young in Atlanta. SR:He never showed up.The only time I met him was in Nigeria and he was at the American Embassy and he was,we was invited to this party so he was shaking everyone's hand.when I came up...there was a white ambassador(and)with his elbow and touched Andrew Young on the side and said,"This is Sun Ra."So he didn't even know. Jﬂzﬂe didn't even know you. SR:He didn't even know who I was.0r maybe he never heard of me but the white ambassador did know me and pushed him in his side and said,This is Sun Ra."So that lets you know the state of affairs. JH:he had to cue him to let him know who you were.That's pretty ignorant of Andrew Young. SR:well,it's just like the black race(is)in some kind of condi- tion o£...they have no status with the Creator I'm talking about. They don't exist.Therefore,they don't know things.They just like they're dead.They don't...know things.They try hard.I give them credit and they're very zealous in their religions and all that but it's not recognized by the Creator that I'm worshiping.It's a big joke to him.I can't go and tell them that'cause they try hard.But...it‘s not going to do them any good,unfortunately. JH:well,it's kind of a dead end,you know.The road they're on £8000 SR:Hell,as long as...they're happy with it.It's like a person you don't know.They can be very happy with it... Continued in issue twenty two of Sun Ra Research. 19 A muzmuaururmunulnnmuu wsmmwuuunuv/mmwmnImwur1ucuIImummr SIMIIUNR wm-Iunnnmnulnouwrnuur mmmummun nmm urusnuuluunz nmnmmu ssrlmmamzauammmaumus mnannlnusuu muruunnslnxamrluunz wurIn=mnwIIuun:mmuu/nlzmw Irrtmunrlnamnamxman-mama Iimvmmwuwnmmwuumummnmmlwnmuummsnmms Anuwmmasmav/Asmamwmmmmuuurwmmus Iaumummmummnuum I'M NOT A PHONY, I'M TOTALLY SINCERE. I cAN sAvE THIs wHOI.E PI.ANET BUT, THE POINT OI= IT: II= PEOPLE ARE sEI.I=IsH (THEN) IT'S NOT RIGHT FOR ME TO sAvE sEI.I=IsH PEOPLE. I'M, EVEN‘ NOW. GETTING MORE nEsTIucTIvE As TO THE MusI<IANs I usE. I DON'T wANT NOBODY sEI.I=IsH IN THIs BAND. I DON'T <AnE HOw Mu¢H THEY PLAY. IT's BAD FOR ME TO HAVE A MAN DOwN HERE, A wOMAN, ANYBODY wHO Is sEI.I=IsH BEcAusE IT DIs<OunAc.Es ME. AND I DON'T NEED NO DISCOURAG EMENT. suN RA FEBRUARY 16. 1986
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-21
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

Title: Sun Ra research, iss. 22 (April, 1999)
Author: Hinds, Peter (editor)
Publisher: Omni Press
Date: 1999-04-01
Place published: Millbrae, California, United States
Text: APRIL 1999 ISSUE 22 Il"IIl£'fV@I.DlI§EAIOVE'IIIRWI$DODK 1IImr¢ouuvs££uA1IIn:AsrrIs Aunillnrwoulnunnnnusmub 1IIA'r11I£n£An:onI£nnAu:soI=NA1un£ GIEAIERIIIANTIIEILANETIIETRNOW. Auamuunmm ABET!-IE OIIIERMEASIIBE ‘ram: amsnwlsnou-I¢NouN<:—Mnn. ISSUE 22 9 9 9 1 u R P A Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds. . . . . ......... Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California...October 20,l984...... Sun Ra:What I'm dealing with(is)if I'm not alert it always takes_~ something of value.It always takes it.Any time(and)they usually take instruments.All you have to do is just bat your eye and these forces will take it.They will take it,all right. ' John Hindszwhere do they disappear?On the street or...Marshall (Allen)says he's gone through three alto(saxophones)and I thought who could steal Marshall Allen's alto? SR:Spiritual beings.They don't have to steal.They can make it disappear...if your mind is not right on it.They can take it. Yo...
Show moreAPRIL 1999 ISSUE 22 Il"IIl£'fV@I.DlI§EAIOVE'IIIRWI$DODK 1IImr¢ouuvs££uA1IIn:AsrrIs Aunillnrwoulnunnnnusmub 1IIA'r11I£n£An:onI£nnAu:soI=NA1un£ GIEAIERIIIANTIIEILANETIIETRNOW. Auamuunmm ABET!-IE OIIIERMEASIIBE ‘ram: amsnwlsnou-I¢NouN<:—Mnn. ISSUE 22 9 9 9 1 u R P A Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds. . . . . ......... Pink Flamingo Motel...Berkeley,California...October 20,l984...... Sun Ra:What I'm dealing with(is)if I'm not alert it always takes_~ something of value.It always takes it.Any time(and)they usually take instruments.All you have to do is just bat your eye and these forces will take it.They will take it,all right. ' John Hindszwhere do they disappear?On the street or...Marshall (Allen)says he's gone through three alto(saxophones)and I thought who could steal Marshall Allen's alto? SR:Spiritual beings.They don't have to steal.They can make it disappear...if your mind is not right on it.They can take it. You'd never know what happenend.They can move it from one place to the other and that's it if you're not watching it.If you're watching it,of course,they're not going to do it.If you got your mind on something else that's when they zoom in and they'll take it.I've had several instruments taken right from in front of everybody's face.Nobody saw it leave.Nobody saw nobody get it but then my mind was somewhere else doing something.Somebody else and their mind was somewhere else and that's when they can come in and get it because you can't prove they took it.You can't prove it unless you have it in you're mind a memory of the last thing you did.See,they have no memory of the last time they saw it.But I have a memory of that I handed it back there(Sun Ra is referring to his spiral bound music notebook which was lost the previous day at radio station KFJC.After Sun Ra left Berkeley, John Hinds and Peter Hinds went to §PJC,found and returned,by mail,the notebook to Sun Ra).- JH:And they don't remember that at all. SR:And I never saw it again.If I seen it again it would be in my...my mind retains(and)photographs things and that's the rea- son I look.It always photographs things.Last time I even looked at it I was handing it to them(them being Tyrone Hill and one other band member).If I had lookeb back it would have photo- graphed the fact that I handed it to one of them.But I didn't see that. - JH:But that's got to hurt to lose three alto(saxophones) in two years,I mean financially. SR:well,it is Marshall's fault.He left it in a club.It had been robbed several times.He left it up there in plain sight at the door. JH:what,he didn't take it home or he just left it at the door? SR:We was in Washington DC.It was a brand new alto and he saw this girl he knew...he left it.He left it right there.But we had been told that somebody stole a tape recorder there(and) some more things.we had been told that.But that's all they took is the brand new alto.So somebody was probably watching it. . * . JH:I imagine.It's hard to figure(that)people be like vultures. Just to go I'll steal this man's instrument. SR:well,they don't call it stea1ing.when you get well known people call it getting souvenirs.They take uniforms,too.One' time I went to a fellows house,to a party,he had one of the uniforms draped over his lamp,as a lampshade.And I took it. It just disappeared.But I had a lot of creations and different things(and)they be beautifu1,rea1ly,and they take it.They don't call it stealing.I had some red pants once and they were the reddest pants you ever saw.They would shine in the sun so even men would whistle and all of the construction gang(would) look down and they could see these pants.They were red unintelligi- ble.So I took it...we was playing in Boston(and)I took it and hung it on the stage,instead of the dressing room,right up there by the band.They disappeared.That's'cause I obeyed it. These forces will only take things that you paid(for).They might mean nothing to nobody else but if you take your eye off it they take it and they be doing everybody like that. And they consider it as a great victory when they can create a mystery. JH:I'll keep my eye on my stuff.I don't want my bass saxophone going nowhere.That'd be hard for them to get,though. PH:It's too heavy. SR:well,they took my electronic piano,Crumar Piano. JH:The Crumar. SR:The big_one.Best piano on the market,real1y. JH:Is that the one that you could mix all these different, like organ and synthesizer?Or was it just strictly piano? SR:It was one that you could get different sounds.Like guitar sounds... JH:was it a Stratus?was that what it was? SR:No,the Stratus was destroyed.They took that,too. JH:So you don't have that anymore. SR:They took all my instruments except... JH:That's so co1d....Sun Ra,too.I mean,here's a man on a mission here,(to)do some work and making it hard. SR:Yeah,well,it's because of disobediance.See,I call it... well,we's in France...Egypt?wherever we was I told Danny (Thompson)(to)call the house and tell the person we left there to take all my instruments out there and pawn it "cause someone's going to break in.A week ahead I told him. And so he didn't do it. JH:And they were gone. SR:That's right.And while he wasn't there one night some- body broke(in)but I told him(to)take all my instruments. Someone is breaking,going to break in the house...'cause I left out a gentleman unintelligible that means something unpleasant.And what happenend is they going to break in that house.And they did.Ask Danny to call the second(radio) station. ~ JH:(steps out the door to ask Danny)”Did you call the second station?" Danny Thompson:"Yeah,I called both stations." JH:Yeah,he called them,called them both...well,if you don't get it back I'll call them after you leave and if I find it; there's not too much chance of that but I will call them .I would call them if you don't get it.Follow that up,you know. SR:Been time wasted,you know. JH:Oh,too much. SR:I got to write that all and beside I got another song in there I was writing an arrangement out on,Give Me The Simple Life and I don't even have a...I don't even have that song,you know.The whole song is in there.You probably can't buy it.It's the whole song.No telling what else I got in there.what have I got in there?Yeah,I got Can You Take It?in there,too... JH:That's got to hurt. SR:That's my lesson for the day. JH:People stealing your instruments.....But I was thinking about that.That E flat bass clarinet.That hits that low note, 1ike,concert G sharp. . ’ SR:which one? JH:That B flat bass clarinet(that)$lo(Omoe plays). SR:wel1,then there's the contra... JH:The contra.Yeah,the contra bass. SR:0ne of them is...I don't know if it's an arto.One o them is an alto. ‘ JH:Bass,I think. SR:Because he play in the same key as Danny(Thompson),I . 4 think.The long one. JH:Yeah,that's right.E flat. SR:It looks like a contra bass.But I think the contra bass" .unintel1igible must play it just like the other clarinet in... JH:B flat. SR:That’key. JH:You've seen those.Like,they're... SR:Yeah._ JH:...metal.Like (Anthony)Braxton,I think.He plays one a lot of times,too.And a lot of times they're...it's all metal.It's just this thing and then itTs got the horn on the top like that. SR:That's right.Unintelligib1e Elo bought that I thought it was a bass clarinet or something but then we missing one and we've had one.And then I found out it was in that alto key unintelligible and that's what it was. well,it's a nice sound.It's a pretty sound(and)it looks, good,too. ' ‘I ‘ " JH:Oh,it's a beautiful instrument.I was checking it out V thinking about it,though,and it gets the same...it goes as low as the bass sax.My bass,you know,this bass sax which I have.(Made in)1924.Beautifu1.You'd like that,I think.Not to take on the road,though. SR:what? JH:A 1924 Conn bass saxophone. SR:0h,yeah. JH:I have one of those.Same thing that Coleman(Hawkins) . was playing.Same one...I don't know if it's the same one but it's the same(model).And the same note.It goes down that low A flat.The A flat two octaves below middle C. That's powerful.That's a real power horn.You wouldn't want to take that around with you on the road,you know. Very heavy. ' SR:well;that's the thing about it.If they gave more con- sideration to musicians...but they don't when it comes to a travelling. — . JH:It's a shame.And the costs.I know I don't have to tell you about that.The costs of it a11,though.You have to_ ‘ lighten it down.Maybe that's one thing good about the Casio and these things,too.'Cause they're a little cheaper k to take around rather than... SR:The what? JH:The Casio and some of these lighter keyboards.They're easier to...shipping and things like that.A little cheaper. SR:They don't go by the weight unintelligible no more.I mean,unless it's over a'certain(weight).Like Jacson's big drum.It's longer and then the weigh it.They say something about it's over seventy pounds.It feels seventy five pounds. Unintelligible I tried to lift it up and all that,you know. If you ain't got yourself together...But it's quite dis- turbing.I didn't bring too many things.I didn't want to lose nothing.But these forces took the one thing that cause me difficulty.They always be doing that.But I was warned to take that attache case.It just seemed like extra weight. JH:what are you looking to do today?You got your whole schedule planned out? SR:well,I just have to relax before I play because I got now,since my plans were messed up by that book dis- appearing I have to go in another direction'cause I was going to play that tonight. SR:Maybe you could play some of your new tunes like this Discipline in here..You got Discipline Thirty Two and some of these other tunes.Maybe they are ready,maybe they're not,though.I don't know if the band,you know,has seen them. But there's a lot of titles... SR:we got a lot of songs but then...they saying some other things to the general public.I don't know if they'd catch it,in a sense.I have to get a photograph of the audience before I decide on what I'm playing.And I know what to play unintelligible.After I get that unintelligible picture of everybody together I'll play the exact things that needs to be played.But,if I prepare something in advance it might be a delayed reaction.They might not hear it untill next week.Their minds will retain it but they won't know what's happening untill next(week).Then they'll think about it. It'll come back to them in a flash.But I play something where it would get to them immediately.It's a big theater (Market Street Cinema)(and)I don't know how the sound system is... JH:Yeah,I don't either.Or the piano.I don't know what... Sr:I don't know that so I have to adjust myself according to the piano(and)the sound system.Are we going to have an echo for the drums or what?Al1 that has to be considered. I can't tell(untill)I go there. JH:I'd like to hear Jacson's basson a little more miked up.Sometimes it's hard to hear.It gets washed over or is that the idea,to blend. SR:well,he don't have too many songs'cause he lost his music and I haven't written nothing new for him. JH:Oh,yeah?It just sometimes gets drowned out.If you could just get that mic in there or something.Or is it, maybe it's supposed to blend. SR:Well,he didn't have no music and nothing for him to. play.He can't just play anything.So he just hold his horn untill I get a chance to write his part over.He had a lot of songs.Maybe one hundred songs.That takes me a long time to find out what notes I gave him.I have to change the whole repertoire in order to give him a part now.. JH:What happened to his book? SR:It disappeared on a train...A whole pack.A backpack disappeared. - JH:You need a billion do1lars,you know.You need a billion dollars,something like that to... Trone Hi11:It's(the sheet music)not in this bag. JH:...make things work just perfect. SR:It's really something.The only place for it to be in is in that car unless,unless,when you all was putting some money in the machine,you-laid it up on top of the machine. And never got it back. ' . TH:On top of what machine? SR:The machine that(you got the)cans out of. JH:0h,the vending machines. TH:what machines? SR:You know,we came out the first studio(and)there was a machine there and... - TH:No...We still had it then. SR:That's when we came out of the studio. TH:Out of the first studio in San Francisco. SR:But you all in a different place from me........ The thing about itzsome musicians are unscrupulous. If you leave any of my stuff around they'll take it. Unintelligible...Calabria?Someplace we was playing.In a jazz club and I had this fake book.It disappeared.Had it on the piano.Disappeared.Somebody took it.You can't buy those books over there easi1y.So,obviously,they took it. So I know you can't leave it. :u—:—u—1¢-:1:-1.:-«--——anon-cu:-at.-1-an-1-..--:1-u-p—u:-3-911-—u—-no.-1-—--—--—-——n—--—c-——- SR:I got a reel to reel(tape recorder)at the house.And I have...these robbers,they stole a four track Teac.They packed and moved out,they took everything.They took three amplifiers. JH:From your house? SR:(Indicates yes)So we left a fellow to take care of it.They got the drop in him as soon as he(left).They got the drop on him.They must have been watching when left the house."Cause he stay in there but he'd come over there.He'd be over there but this must have been done at night.They got in through John's window,I suppose. They were able to...they must have got...It's a row of houses.You can walk across...but they must have got on the last house.They must have put a ladder up and unin- telligible empty house and walked on over there to John's window anlift that up and come in and come downstairs.It had to be.The neighboors didn't see nothing.But they had to have a big,wel1,they had to have a station wagon or some- thing like that. JH:what about your other instruments?Don't you have a celeste and all this other stuff,too? SR:They didn't get that.That was upstairs in Jacson's room. They didn't know about that.It was somebody who knew what I had.They took what they knew I had.It was another synthe- sizer there which I have to have fixed.They didn't take that ‘cause they hadn't ever seen that.And another amplifier,they hadn't seen that,either.It's a unintelligible and this a real long one like this.A bass amp.It's a good amp.One of the best I had.I had two of them.One of them is downstairs in the base- ment.They didn't go down there.I had an electronic piano down there,too.A Wurlitzer.But,unfortunately the pipes burst and it's still wet,in a sense.The keys swole up but it was like.. it just when you trying to do something worhtwhile other forces get over in there.They get in there(and)they be causing little things to discourage you(and)to...really, Incredible.But they unintelligible all the instruments _except the ones I had with me.And I did have them.well, this instrument.they would have got that,too. ‘JH:That Casio? SR:It was at a friends house in New York.I had taken it up there and I just left it.And I would have left some other things up there too but we had this time element. And then the organ,they didn't take that'cause I left that in Milano.It's still there.And I got a Moog synthe- sizer,too.But it's a long one like a guitar and that was in Paris.So they didn't get that. JH:So when you go to Paris you'll have to get that again? SR:I brought it back with me this time'cause the last place we played in Europe was Paris for a week and the bus that we had that takes us around and they brought it but in Milano I got two,maybe three amplifiers.In Paris I got two big speakers so they didn't get that.But I couldn't bring it with me.They saw it outside of Paris suburb so...they been there five years....I would have brought it back with me...comparatively safe now'cause I got somebody that stay- ed there in the house practically all the time now.He's one of Danny's friends and he be there.He be there all the time. SR:They never let up,you know.One time in Canada I called a friend in Chicago.I said go to the house,the apartment and get my stuff out(of)there.Someone's going to break in there. He said,"But I go there every day."And he got unintelligible. It's on the fourth f1oor........"You better get my stuff out of there'cause I'm up under the juristiction of unintelligible I don't need to make mistakes.They tell me in advance it's going to happen.Someone is going to break in there.So he didn't go.He missed one day and(when)he went there the door was off the hinges.I lost a lot of valuable things.Books...things that could not be replaced.Even took a newspaper article that,yeah, a newspaper article that was put in the paper in Chicago in the white district.....And it had this picture in there and it said that the Sphinx represents Ra.And it had a story in there about it but it wasn't in the black districts.It was white district on1y.Now,I had that cut out(and)pasted in a book. JH:And that disappeared,too. SR:That was over in the book.I had it pasted in a book.And they took the book,too.Somebody say the neighboors was com- ing upstairs like it was a library and they sitting in there reading...unintelligible took what they wanted... . . . . . .. we left there for a week or two weeks to go to Canada.we didn't come back.we never did come back to Chicago.we was up there a little longer,you see. Paul Bley had all his stuff disappeared.Unintelligible,com- positions(and)everything.The forces be working constantly, you know.Catch you napping.But you always be warned in ad- vance.It's a matter whether you listen.Like,I was warned yesterday.A voice told me(and)said take your attache case and put the music in there.But I didn't have but one piece of music so I didn't see why.If I took the attache case I'd have the piece(of music).'Cause it would have been in that attache case..........But I had to get ready for that inter- view and then when I do that my mind is on that.People be asking me questions(and)you have to be careful what you say- ing.'Cause then the forces(wi11)if you make an error when you talking they'll take the error and build up on it... They'll be looking for the errors you make.They'll unintel- ligible a whole country on one error.Sit back and wait for them to discover the error....'Cause if you think you're right,it's the worst thing you can do.They'll make you think you're right........It's a school here.(If)you pass the test of being alert and having discipline you got it made.You relax one split second(and)they got you.I was trying to save time.They don't even let you do that.That's the reason I took it(sheet music)with me.To save time.I didn't.Got to write it all over again.That's the price I pay,you know.A lot of people would have given up behind all this stuff I go through. The reason I can't sleep is(there)be some spiritual entities full of energy around me.They be visiting me.Can't sleep then. It's hard'cause they don't sleep.When they come around...can't s1eep.Unless you(are)insensitive.If you are insensitive they come through you in dreams but they don't have to come to me in no dreams.I be hearing strange sounds.Last night I heard a strange sound.Back in the washroom.And then I heard a strange sound over there and I heard one over there.I heard three strange sounds. 10 JH:What did they sound like? SR:It was like metallic. JH:Like(a)percussive(sound)? SR:Just one(sound).In this case it was just one.Over there. Each night I hear something.A sound.Just one sound.I always ‘look out the window.Nothing over there but the wall but still I look........So I'm very sensitive.That happens at the house, too.I hear these strange sounds. JH:Are they always metallic like that? SR:Sometimes it's a deep sound.So I know it ain't no mouse that could make a sound like that.Nothing be falling.You could say it's a mouse or something,maybe,that you don't know about but no,go back there(and)nothing fel1.Maybe they're trying to get me prepared to see them.I don't know. A fellow was sitting next(to me)and talking to me in Chicago. He told me one day,"I really would like to see my wife again before I die,you know."I was telling him he shouldn't be say- ing things like that,you know,'cause the forces be waiting for you uninteligib1e.He was out on the street one day and he said, "God,where are you?"And this voice came(and said),"I am every- where."I told him then to watch it.But the next thing(that) happened(was)his wife...show up in the doorway one night(and) then he got on his knees and prayed,'Please take her away." ‘Cause he didn't tell me his wife was dead.Unintelligible. She showed up in his doorway and then he was scared.He was so frightened.'Cause she'd been dead and buried about five years.But that's what he said.He wanted to see her again. And about two months later he died.So...you don't say things like that.Like unintelligible.He's going to Europe(and)he wasn't coming back.I told him,don't say that.He did go there. He didn't come back.So I know they take advantage of people make statements that's really non practical.They work on that quicker than what is practical.If they have one that is practical they catch you when you napping.Catch you when you napping.And they will. JH:what about dreams? SR:I had this dream the night before last:A newspaper.I could read the whole newspaper just like it was real.Down to small detail.Even who wrote the article.Had picture in there of some black ministers all dressed in their stuff and it had this 11 article about them but they were doing something and they were very succesful and they were interviewing them about... and they gave part of it and they supposed to give the other. And in the article it_said that they didn't keep their word about the second part of the article.That was over in the middle of the newspaper.It was a big newspaper so I turned to the front page.On the front page they had Lucifer.The name of the newspaper was Lucifer Illumini or Illuminary. Lucifer.That's the name of the paper.Down up on the bottom it had in big letters,Birmingham,Alabama.And I looked real good(c1osely).I was surprised and I said I didn't know they had a newspaper like that but I haven't been there for a whi1e.Very graphic...(and)big letters.So that's the puzzling (thing).How,why dream a dream like that.It was like it wasn't a dream.I've been trying to figure it out.Lucifer Illuminari. The name of the newspaper.Usually a newspaper have the city in small letters.Big letters.Birmingham,al1 of them capitalized. JH:Do you remember the stories in it? SR:0h,yeah.I read other things in there.Little trivial things. Advertisements in there.The only thing I remember is the black minister artic1e.I don't remember nothing the article was say- ing.0ne thing I know is it said they(the ministers) didn't keep their appointment for the continuation of the interview.They (the newspaper)talked about it.That's all I remember. JH:That's interesting.Didn't keep their appointment to continue it. ‘ _SR:And the impression was they were very succesful and that's why they was interviewing them. JH:This is interesting(referring to sheet music).Is this a sketch for... SR:Song about Chicago. JH:Are those just impressions down at the bottom(of the page) to stimulate you into remembering some things... SR:It's words for this(song)but...I'm probably not going to use it.It might be too late.See,Chicago wanted a song.This is the songs but I never sent it.It was exactly what they need. It's what they want.But I have a-lot of projects and I 12 don't finish it. JH:Have a lot of things on the fire. SR:A lot.They need this song.They'd give five thousand dollars . for it and I haven't even sent it. 1 JH:It would be nice to have you write a song for Chicago and also get a little(money)... SR:I wrote it twenty years ago.It's pretty.Everybody likes it. In fact,June sang it at the sound check but when she got to the middle part she didn't sing it the way I would like it to be sung so I didn't do it that night. » JH:where was this? SR:The last time we played in Chicago. JH:And are you still working on certain arrangementsichristopher Columbus and all these tunes... T‘ SR:I just brought some things with me to look at because I don't have the trumpet music.Every trumpet player I get takes the music and keeps it so don't nobody else get the job.So I- have to take my cue sheets with me in case I write it over.I- have to keep on writing trumpet parts. JH:No kidding?Does Walter Miller have all his music? SR:I don't remember about Walter but I know Martin Banks got the music and before that Fred,another trumpet,he got the first part.And then they keep the music.So won't nobody else get the job.The first(trumpet)men keep the music.Invariably. JH:They want to be called back again. SR:They don't want nobody else to see it.So when I write I have to write...now I have to write two or three parts and have them xeroxed.But I got so much to do that I can't do it all. JH:How about some of these other tunes you had in your book? I was peeking in there and you had some different things I never heard of....Purple Sky. SR:Yeah,well that's one I never played out in the public.It's 13 a pretty song, JH:Need1esg to say Iim nowhere_near your ability as far as d._ sight reading or writing stuff.I'm not that)very good at that so I can‘t look at this and hear it in my head but that wouldg be nice to hear.Sometimes I wish I was,you know,but it takes“‘ work.It takes a lot of work to be on that leve1,This sounds familiar,though,P1easant Twi1ight.A ‘ SR:That's oyer on the Egyptian record, JH:OK,yeah;New Horizons;Now,you got New Horizons here,too, and then you got this little sketch;Is_this for trumpet?f ; And then you got this. ‘ SR:That's for the trumpet and the first alto.That7s another? introduction I added.But,actually,more harmonic structure’ to the chords unintelligible. ‘ ‘ ' ' " JH:Yeah,it's amazing,And working at this quite intenselyyﬂ though,you*know.Cross out certain things... I. ~ SR:Oh yeah,I have to because the chords have to be written according to the instrumentation,If I change the instrumen+‘ tation the chords will sound wrong'cause the harmonies are: so close.So it's tailor made.If one person lay out itYs.not:;h, going to sound.Just like_that.It's a balance,you know, JH:YeahKwe1l,that‘s‘intersting.Now,E1o(Omoe),he‘s got his ., alto.So you got three altos there;Now,you haven't had that all the time.Sometimes you have that but youidonft have three altos all the time. ‘I ‘ SR:On1y Fletcher Henderson knows about what I do'cause that“s- what he had.(That)was the time. JH:Are you thinking of featuring John(Gilmore)on the clarinet? SR:I got a lot of things on clarinet for him;1 I JH:Real1y§He sounds so good.He's got that...sound.Q. SR:He/started on clarinet.He was taught by a German.So he (was)meticulous. JH:Yeah.He wants to get a new clarinet.That's amazing,I hear him playing that beautiful style but then I also hear him 14 warming up and I hear things I don't hear him playing,you know.More of a,let's say,a smooth tone or something.(sings scale).And I go(think)that would be nice to hear.Something featuring that tonal quality.'Cause he can play that sound Buster Bailey(had)and all that kind of thing.That sounds‘ just marvelous,you know.And I hear this other thing coming in,too. . SR:He really hadn't had a chance but I haven't had one so it's one of them things.The world might not never hear it because they haven't opened the way for us..,unfortunately. He ought to have good instruments.Well,he got a nice saxo- phone. JH:Yeah,that's true.All new I think. SR:A1l of them got nice saxophones.we got that in Paris.“ But(the)clarinet.He looking for a particular kind of clarinet. He ain't found it yet unintelligible. JH:That's amazing,though.I'd like to hear that.I'd like to hear that other sound he's got that I've never heard.'Cause, you know,1ike you guys are playing all the time but I'm not there all the time.I can't physically be there. SR:Well,John rehearses every day.About four or five times a day where we staying(Philadelphia).It doesn't bother the neighboors.that's one reason while I stayed in Philadelphia. other places unintelligible,where we stay at there are no houses on the other side that's near.And you can't...if you stand in the front room so the sound goes over there instead .of,1ike.bouncing up against the walls.It doesn't do that.You can hear it but...the neighboors don't say nothing.Unless they ask why we not rehearsing. I JH:You rehearse there,too. SR:Yeah.they ask why we aren't rehearsing. JH:That ever get to be a problem? SR:No,they be asking why don't we rehearse?They say they can sleep good by the sounds unintel1igible.That they can relax by it so therefore they be worried when we don't rehearse. It's a big living room,you know.It's about three times longer than this. JH:About as wide? SR:It's as wide and three times longer from here to there. That's big....It really could be divided into three rooms it's so big. JH:was that some of your recording equipment you were tell- ing me about... — SR:That they took? JH:...that they took? SR:Yeah.A Teac,a Sony...A Teac four track,Sony two track. The only reason they didn't get this Roberts is becausre ... they didn't know about that.I told you somebody who knew unintelligib1e.And,of course,psychically I traced it down (to)who had it.who got it.A guitar player.He's in Detroit. The guitarists name is James Glass.I traced it.He got it. JH:James Glass? SR:Yeah.James Glass and he went to Europe with us.But he came back early because he wasn't suitab1e,you know.He got so he wouldn't... JH:He couldn't make it? SR:He was playing but he got so he wouldn't even take his guitar out.He got very proud.I think it was.;.wouldn't listen to nobody.He'd be out there in the streets in Paris late at night.we's telling him about the police and different things like that.He'd go out without his passport.He kept on doing things that was dangerous.Unintelligible being real dark skinned(and)without a passport they would have thought he was Senegalese.And a lot of them enter the country illegally.If they don't have no passport or nothing they take them to the airport and put them on the plane and ship them back to Senegal. And we told him about that danger.He wouldn't listen. JH:I wonder why not? SR:He just hard headed.A lot of teenagers are hard headed. Jﬁzwas this guy a teenager? SR:well,he was twenty one or something...So,we had to send 16 him back.And when he came back he broke in the house.Because, in the first place,we was supposed to come back on the... we11,he knew we were supposed to come back on the sixth or something like that.So he broke in the house about the fourth or something like that.And he left town.He went to Detroit. I traced it up.He thought we was coming back so he had to get out.His people said he was nervous and(he)said he had to go to Detroit.His father and his stepmother...his sister said,"Yeah, well,he was saying he...I don't like you all no more.I'm going to Detroit to stay at my mother"He hadn't seen his mother since he was a baby.So he was getting away from them before we come in (to Phi1adelphia).But we didn't come back.we went to Egyptyso, he took it,allright.So,unintel1igible a place where he used to go to pawn an instrument and the piano was there.The piano was there and at first they say they didn't know who brought it in and then they aknowledged he brought it in there.So,an ampli- fier,too.It was there,too.But I couldn't find my receipt... JH:The original receipts. SR:The original receipt.Because there's so much there(at the house)and I didn't have time'cause we went on the road again. The next thing,the piano,the man told me(to)report it to the police department and everything but I couldn't report it.I had...evidence that I had taken a camera(photo of Sun Ra and the piano)with me.Canadian government had snapped(taken the photo)it.But the number was there and everything.So I knew the number of the piano but I didn't have the receipt that I bought it because I didn't buy it.Crumar gave it to me.Now, so it is a prob1em.If I go to the police they going to ask for the receipt that it's mine.That since Crumar gave,and Crumar made me a representative of Crumar.If I could find that 1etter.It's somewhere in the house but I didn't have time to look for it.I had to go back out so,you see,it was all very complicated. JH:That's for sure. SR:So the man that he(James G1ass)sold the piano(to said) there was three keys on there that were bad and mine had three keys(that were bad).what had happenend(is that)the enamel came off or something so it was put back together so the personAt the pawn shop)going to buy it must of said something about that and he had to get these three keys.So, then I knew it was mine.And the number corresponded but,you know,I lost that.It was a sacrifice. Conversation with Sun Ra,John Hinds and Peter Hinds . . . . . . . . . . . .. February l6,l986...Continued from SRR Twenty One...Page nineteen SR:So I'm going to Russia,too.I'm planning on going to Siberia (and)go up there and see what they doing.I'm sure that unintel- ligible'cause this Creator that I'm talking about controls them, too.And once I get out of America I'll be able to do anything I want to and talk to people and they going to accept it.They not going to be like America and I know they aren't. JH:It’ll go very well once you get over there. SR:well,whenever I go over there I have money and when I come back here I've spent all of it(and)I don't have anything.So it just like I can't do anything here except on a very limited basis.And I could be playing in every state in the union but, you know,I haven't been to every state over here but I've been to every country in Europe.Right there you can see something is wrong. A JH:well,maybe when you go over there they'll miss you,you know. Maybe they'll know what they lost. SR:when I leave America a light is going out in this country. I mean it's going to be spiritual...well, emptiness.That's it. So all I can say is too bad.And I'm not against America.They doing the best they can.But they got some people here called negros and black folks and colored folks that are not in tune or recognized by the Creator and that's the...it's very sad indeed.So I was able to be in touch with him as a child so, therefore...it's a simple as that.But at this point he fix up everything for me to leave here. PH:what's your schedule now the next two weeks?I know you're playing Sweet Basil(New York) SR:Well,I got to pack up,you know.'Cause I got toget some unin— telligible and some tapes and some write ups(reviews)over to France for the unintelligib1e.I don't want to leave my stuff here at the mercy for them.Two weeks...even with amazing fifty years of different stuff,two weeks is very difficult to get all that together and put it into storage and to unintelligible away.That's a big job and only I can do it.I can't even have nobody in the band to help me.They don't know what to save and what to throw away.So I got a terrific job on my hands. PH:Just save it all. SR:we1l,I_won't have any help.So they might throw away something of value.So I have to go through piece by piece with every sheet of music and every sheet of writing and I have to do that by my- self.So for the next two weeks that's what I'll be doing.Fortu- nately,next time we play will be in Philade1phia.That's two weeks off...well...about two weeks...what's this?The seventeenth? PH:Today is sixteen. SR:Right.Two weeks from now I'll be playing in Philadelphia.I'm going to leave here and go to Sweet Basil in New York.Then after that,the next thing we supposed to do(is)where I was having this...thing together with John Cage.But they cancelled that and moved it to...June,I think,now.which isn't too good because,well, maybe yes but first they're talking about the end of July(or) August'so it would fit in.But the point of it:I'd like to go over there before then and it might be,if the booking agent in Holland wants to hook me and they might have something for me in June,you see. |# 8798456-9 A FIRESIDE MIT/l LUCIFER WHEN I LEAVE AMERICA A LIGHT Is GOING our IN 'rI-IIs couN1'mr. I MEAN IT'S GOING TO BE SPIRITUAL . . . wEI.I., EMI>1'INEss. THAT'S‘ IT. so ALL I cAN SAY Is T00 A BAD. AND I'M No'r Ac.AINs1' AMERICA. THEY DOING THE BEs'r THEY cAN. BUT THEY ¢o'r SOME PEOPLE HERE cAI.I.ED NEGROES AND BI.A<I< FOLKS AND <oI.oBED A FOLKS THAT ARE NOT IN TUNE on A RECOGNIZED BY THE CREATOR AND THAT'S THE . . . IT'S vE RY sAD INDEED. so I wAs ABLE TO BE IN 1'ou<I-I WITH HIM As A <I-III.D so, THEREFORE - . . IT'S As SIMPLE As 1'I-IA'r. BUT AT THIS POINT I-IE FIXEDUP EVERYTHING FOR ME TO LEAVE HERE. suN BA % FEBRUARY 16, 1986
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Geography: Millbrae (Calif.)
Subjects: Sun Ra--Periodicals, Sun Ra--Interviews, Hinds, Peter--Interviews, Sun Ra Arkestra--Periodicals, Jazz--Periodicals, Communal living--United States--Periodicals
Identifier: yhm-spe-jsr-res-22
Is part of: Sun Ra Collection, Communal Societies Collection, Hamilton College Library Digital Collections

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